Housepets! Mafia - Game Over - Who lived happily ever after in Babylon Gardens?

[Kantrip]

Were you... were you honestly saying you would be cleared because JTB would flip scum?

Ugh...

Can we finish the claiming I thought we agreed to? I'd hate for you to be 0 for 2 with no information gained from either of your pushed lynches, T-Block.

 

[T-block]

No, I specifically said I would be clear by D2 if I was still alive ._.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I went back and read when you said that. What am I missing?

 

[T-block]

...the only other part of that post?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't feed me the connections stuff a lot of DGamers play out, it's bull.

This only applies if there are two clear lynch targets and it's debateable who is scummier, it isn't the case here. You lynch does reveal things about people as town, don't play it off like it doesn't.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Based on what I've read T-Block post, I already know why it would clear him, a guess but I have a very good idea on why.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright Red Ryu, that's fine. If you're confident my lynch will help town then go for it.

If you can make me agree that town can gain from my lynch, I'll even place my own vote down so we don't no lynch near deadline.

I would much rather lynch John, and my case on him as not yet been refuted or anything.

Go ahead though, explain what my lynch sets you up for toMorrow.

 

[John2k4]

and my case on him as not yet been refuted or anything.

Did my #667 go directly over your head or something?

 

[Kantrip]

I mean by others, John. Your defense is your defense.

I would like to hear other people's opinions.

 

[Xiivi]

Vc2d

4/7|11.03.11 11:59PM EST

votee|voters
John2k4|Gustave/Kantrip/
T-block|DtJ Glyphmoney/
Kantrip|Red Ryu/John2k4/
No Vote|T-block/Terywj/

 

[Jim Morrison]

I mean by others, John. Your defense is your defense.

I would like to hear other people's opinions.

Allow me, I'll be answering with what I assumed you meant on some things.

That is just meta stuff. That shouldn't have a bearing on your case.

Meta.

Meta acknowledged, and every case that is legitimate meta from here on as well.

Let me try to understand this. Yes, I remember the daycop clain from MM. Right off the bat in MM, I had no clue RR was bluffing it, but learned off of others as it progressed. What are you getting at with the correlation between games thing?

Okay, so you knew that the daycop claim was (very likely) a fake and you understood what the gambit meant. The correlation, I assume Kantrip means, is that you learnt about the gambit in that game. In this game, the exact same thing happened, so you'd have to have figured out that this was a gambit as well.

I understood that the gambit was to pressure for info. In MM, RR withdrew his the same day if I remember. JTB was concrete on this, so I was beginning to have second thoughts on it.

Apparently you didn't understand, because you were asking not to vote for pressure so fast. You realize that pressure is without a doubt the best way to get information out of a person? I don't see how you'd oppose the pressure votes if you've already seen the gambit before. Also, JTB wasn't concrete on this, just adamant. Besides, he retracted his gambit WITHIN 24 hours of the thread starting, so it was the same day as well, as far as I care.

Yeah, I was calling him anxious on wanting to get a wagon rolling / collect votes. That's a crime?

That in itself isn't, but it is if you have such a sudden change of heart. You said you knew it was a gambit, and understood that it was to pressure for information. I suppose you didn't want to see pressure because you would want RVS to last as long as possible?

Once again, going off of meta here. I hardly paid any mind to your claim, due to all the posts on the first page seeming to be joke votes / cases on people. I felt that he was trying to get me to panic, and make me slip early.

Granted, I suppose

Ruined it?

You already posted your stance on it by saying that he was too anxious and you didn't want to get involved and didn't like him pressuring for votes. That kind of ruined the "letting the claim simmer".

At the time of Kanty's post here, most of my posts were D1. I was actively trying to get everything straight regarding the JTB cases.

That doesn't clear you of the thousand of contradictions and wishy-washies you made.

Mis-understood me a bit there. I was trying to get at the whole pressure the new guy to get him to post more, since your pressure/questions in MM got me to post more.

Legit defense, this is the same thing I saw. You also stated you understood why TG7 BEFORE this part.

Was referring to my MM game where I was slowly picked apart D2, and only had a couple votes up until the end when I got hammered.

Agreeing with John's defense on this one, that a lynch can happen rather quickly if you don't do do anything. The problem is that you wanted him to claim with only two votes on him and that's not gonna fly. You were really eager to get a claim out of him there.

Yep. Went back and counted.

Good job, counting is a smart move!

The claim was the only thing on my mind then, and the L-1 possibility of quickhammer hit me later on when I read what was going on.

Bull****. You obviously did think of the possibility of a quickhammer, otherwise you wouldn't have counted the votes. You didn't want to quickhammer yourself, so you counted. You obviously understood that being at L-1 would make it possible to quickhammer him.

I had written that out, and right before I posted the quick reply, TB's post came up. I read it, and then added in my thoughts on it.

Then don't post the thoughts you had before TB's post, you're confusing literally everyone.

Those were the two people under heavy scrutiny at that point. I wanted your thoughts on each of them.

Agreed, I don't see how this is very scummy. They were indeed the 2 most likely lynch targets.

I really, really hate not being able to nest quotes when you quote someone like this. Even just two stacked quotes would suffice for these Mafia games.

OH GOD AGREED JOHN FOR CONFIRMED TOWN. Xiivi make this happen plz.

See, normally, I would find John's defense bad, but adequate for a player of his caliber. He at least would have tried to defend himself to all points. Fact of the matter is, John ignored almost half of Kantrip's points, and those were the more important points.
Since I can't double-quote, it makes it hard, but for reference, I'm quoting Kantrip vs John
I'll be quoting the things you ignored. These were also the things that were the best points against you. And you ignored them.

Huge lie here. It DID NOT go over John's head. John specifically said in his FIRST response to the gambit that he had seen it before from RR. He tries to weasel his way out of suspicion by playing the newb card and saying "it went over my head", but that back door is NOT going to fly with me. John knew what was going on, and this post right here is pretty incriminating against him.

Oh wow. Oh. Wow. This post speaks for itself. It refers to JTB again.

And then? Man John, you are too funny. How many times did you change your mind on this read? So at first you thought it was null because you'd seen it before, then you started to find it suspicious because he was so anxious, then you said you didn't know what he was doing, then you say you like it, and now you say IT COULD GO EITHER WAY?

What the wishy washy ****?!?

Here's just an example of one of John's many emoticon posts. Adding the trollface to an otherwise serious post is such a good way to leave a back-door just in case. It's actually quite obvious though. This post was responding to Tery btw.

It's strange that John completely supports lynching TG7, and then when people talk about TG7 (meaning Tery), he accuses them of being scum?

See, John did reply to this post, but PARTIALLY. He ignored the more important point, the second part. He just writes this post off as meta, but definitely isn't.

Yes John, that's exactly it. Though you're the scummiest kind of sheep. The kind that passes pressure off as a joke and changes his mind all the time. THEN he decides to go with the flow and follow other players.

This vote is just here to humour me. Not trying to wishywashy, it's just happening, eh?

Ask,



and you shall receive.

Reasoning for Tery is still a lack of posting very much? Yeah that's not gonna' fly.

It was D2, 3 people were dead and still thinks the person who lacks posting is suspicious.


As you can see, those are quite some important points. I already left out a lot of points John didn't answer either, because I didn't think they were big enough points to include.

John can answer any points I just quoted but it won't matter that much, him not answering the first time says more than enough.


Red Ryu and T-block, you vote Kantrip. I understand why you do this, but I really want you to look at John as well. I haven't heard from you what you think of Kantrip's case on John and if John could be scum.
I am very interested in hearing your opinions on John. Everyone's opinions in fact.

P.S. I know this post is a cluster**** that's hard to follow, I tried to make the best of it, now you make the best of it as well.

 

[Kantrip]

Thank you gustave. I agree with what you said there and I am grateful. I should have followed up on it myself, but I couldn't be arsed.

The one thing I worry about is that I'm reading John wrong. I really need to re-read to gauge connections between RR and other people, and TB and other people.

If I get lynched toDay, I don't think town will pull off a win. We need to find a lead on scum toDay.

Gustave, what if John is town?

 

[Jim Morrison]

But then, Kantrip goes out to vote T-block. What? Your whole gambit was to out John as scum, you conclude that T-block HAS to be scum and you go to him instead. What I find telling is that he wants T-block off first. I agree that it most definitely make this seem as a scheme to out and possibly frame T-block, not John or find a correlation between RR and John.

Kantrip would be tied with (possibly above) T-block in scumpicks, if it wasn't for the implication that if John were scum, T-block could very well be scum as well.

The main reason I want John lynched now is to see what happens. I presume he flips scum, that's why I vote him mainly, I agree with Kantrip's case. If he flips scum, I am much more confident in voting T-block than I would be now and we'd probably have both scum.
In the unlikely case that John flips town, I would bet my *** off that Kantrip is scum, trying to frame townies and we'd at least have found Kantrip as scum and a lot of information was gathered.

T-block would drop in scum points, you would rise to my #1 scumpick, maybe nightkill could make a difference. Just because I agree with you, doesn't mean you're in the clear.

Why didn't you call out John for ignoring a lot of your points (THE STRONGEST ONES)? Instead you went on manipulating John to say what you wanted him to say.
I'm guessing the scum is between Kantrip, John and T-block. John first.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

There is a reason why John is on my lynch these players win the game list.

Reason Kan is my #1 pick has to do with how he presented it and played out a possible gambit, which I can still calling BS even with the crumb.

@T-Block: Remind me why TPK wouldn't pick you again?

@Tery: Current scum picks please.

@Glyph: Opinions on John and Kantrip?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Is that reason publicly available or will you not share with me, yet ?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

T-block would drop in scum points, you would rise to my #1 scumpick, maybe nightkill could make a difference. Just because I agree with you, doesn't mean you're in the clear.

Why didn't you call out John for ignoring a lot of your points (THE STRONGEST ONES)? Instead you went on manipulating John to say what you wanted him to say.
I'm guessing the scum is between Kantrip, John and T-block. John first.

I'd do the same as this if John flipped town.

T-Block would drop as a town pick depending on what happens with Kantrip.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Is that reason publicly available or will you not share with me, yet ?

Inconsistent reads.
AtE all over the place.
Responses are meh.

unvote

Gonna rethink this for a bit.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

John2k4 claims.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yesyesyes.

 

[Kantrip]

Yes. Please.

If John flips town, Gustave, do NOT lynch me without thinking and re reading. We WILL lose.

You agree with my points, Gustave? Why am I scum if John is town and you're not? I don't like how that. If John is town, I would look heavily at a Gustave scum.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yes. Please.

If John flips town, Gustave, do NOT lynch me without thinking and re reading. We WILL lose.

You agree with my points, Gustave? Why am I scum if John is town and you're not? I don't like how that. If John is town, I would look heavily at a Gustave scum.

I never said I'd lynch you without thinking.

>Why am I scum if John is town and you're not?

Because of the different motivations we have for lynching John. You said in 708 that you thought there was about an 80% chance that John was scum, yet when you first voted T-block, you were perfectly fine with using John as a springboard to the conclusion that T-block had to be scum. If you weren't 100%, why wouldn't you lynch John first?

Your switch to John over T-block seemed more like an attempt to redeem yourself after I called you out on it than that it was genuinely your intention. Your motivation

Also, the fact that I know I'm town makes me think you are scum and not me, durr. But I didn't think that would be very convincing.


Also, you seem to be more backing off John ever since I stepped in. You've agreed with me, but you seem to think it's more and more likely that he'd flip town, presenting the option numerous times, DESPITE you being the one wanting to lynch him. Is there something you know and you want to take your hands off the lynch and leave it up to me?

 

[T-block]

Kantrip, you're scrambling xP

RR, what would John's claim do for us? If he claimed VT how would that influence your decisions toDay? If he claimed Cop? These aren't necessarily questions I'm expecting answers to - if you think John's claim toDay rather than toMorrow will actually help us, then I'll support it. This suggests to me that you'd rather lynch John toDay over Kantrip. Is that accurate?

 

[Kantrip]

No, I want to weigh both options so that town isn't helpless toMorrow if the less likely option happens.

The reason I wanted T-Block, as I have already stated, is because I am CERTAIN either him or RR is scum. My scum read on John is not that certain.

If John is actually town, we are screwed toMorrow. If T-Block is actually town, we are not.

Cop can investigate me or RR and then we would lynch RR in that scenario.

Your actions recently don't sit well to me. You speak of motivation, but that's exactly what I'm not liking about what you are proposing.

I really want to carry out the claims we were planning to do.

 

[John2k4]

I am Rock, a simple VT.

 

[T-block]

...dammit John

 

[Kantrip]

Was about to post about what we'd get from a claim.

VT, eh?

RR, who is Rock? What does this look like from a flavour perspective?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'm so far behind. I won't ask for a summary, but.

Man.

 

[John2k4]

@TB - You seem concerned about my claiming there...how come?

 

[T-block]

because I JUST asked a question the answer to which is no longer all that relevant because you claimed VT.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Rock: The least worried about money, Rock will nevertheless get himself into enormous amounts of trouble with the fewest tools necessary. Has a fascination for things.

Reference.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He is a ferret just as an FYI.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I asked for a claim because if John was a town role, I would vote Kantrip all day. This isn't the case since he claimed VT. Even worse Spo is more of a main character and Rock could be worse.

Play wise though Kantrip is still the play to me at this point, but I need a reread before I finalize that.

T-Block my previous question, get at it.

 

[T-block]

I dunno how deep TPK reads into this game... he might have considered me less townie after JTB's town flip with how hard I was pushing him, and he might have considered Kantrip more townie for expressing doubt about it. He might have still considered me more townie and opted to aim for someone who was still a town read, though not as strong as way of gaining more information. Again, I can't see him targetting anyone other than you, me, or Kantrip, but with how little he posted, and with how little experience we have with his playstyle, there's nothing that can conclusively point to one over the others, except for the fact that I know he didn't target me.

You said if we lynch Kantrip, John, and Tery, we win the game. Then, do you think Kantrip and John are scummates?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Possible, Kan could be busing for all I know it's just overall, I think that if we lynch those 3 we will win the game, though the only doubt I have depends on my reread.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So I'll be reading in Psych. class if I choose to go, but what am I scum for? I certainly hope you're not using the same "arguments" that John did.

 

[T-block]

You're a question mark, Tery.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Fair enough. Anyway, I'm skipping Psych. class, so I guess I'll read up.

Not fair. This snowstorm.

 

[John2k4]

That snowstorm thing you mentioned is the only reason I didn't harp on you more for inactive...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You're a question mark, Tery.

Pretty much this.

 

[Kantrip]

Red Ryu, do those people change at all if the flip is not what you expect?