Housepets! Mafia - Game Over - Who lived happily ever after in Babylon Gardens?

[Kantrip]

Interesting. I believe I have explained my change in opinions of you, but if not I can sum it up again: Originally, I thought your gambit looked the same as the one RR pulled in MM. I didn't think much of it and it was a null tell to me. In general, my read on you was town due mostly to your answers to questions. To be honest, it was gut town based on activity, which is something one should not do. When T-Block posted his case, I agreed with it. I saw the validity of it, and I re-read your content to check over it. It turned out I did see where T-Block was coming from, but I decided to question him and oppose the idea for a time to get a read on T-Block based on his responses and defense of his posts. I got a town read on T-Block as a result and the purpose of that was finished. As I've said, I find it much easier to read someone when I am in a direct argument/discussion with them. This may be WIFOM, sure, but: Why would my switch in opinions over to you be so blatant if I were originally defending you? What purpose would I have to put myself out there to defend JTB just so I could later lynch him? Sure, reading at face value would tell you that I'm wishy-washy and I'm just hopping on the wagon. That seems hella obvious and fishy just from reading it, though, and I don't think scum should be that stupid. Obviously me saying this will invalidate it due to WIFOM, but wouldn't it make no sense to do what I did?

Either way, I do agree with what T-Block has said about you. Even on the chance that you are town, your lynch helps give us connections and, as a VT, you would not have reacted how you did to the wagon. I'm not saying you should have accepted it, because giving up is never good, but I do think your defense was more flawed in intentions than my initial read-through yielded.

Those last words are pretty shallow, you skip completely over Red Ryu? He's not one of the less-spoken players. I'd like to see more from you if you're town, because we still have over 24 hours until deadline and you can contribute more than that, even if you still get lynched.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No one cares for me. :<

 

[Kantrip]

It's okay, Fido. I care about you.

Spoiler

/this post is not serious, it's a joke about you always drawing cop

 

[JTB]

Pretty sure I've contributed the most toDay, but then again, everyone just thinks I'm scum, so whatever. Everyone's too blinded by T-Block's 'case' which revolves what I didn't do but what I've should've done.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not talking about earlier, I'm talking about now. Reasoning for your reads and whatever you can give.

In your opinion, is it possible to swing a different wagon?

 

[Deleted member]

No one cares for me. :<

::huggles:: Not true.

 

[Vinylic.]

No one cares for me. :<

Not true. I care for as you're like Konata from lucky star.

 

[T-block]

Interesting. I believe I have explained my change in opinions of you, but if not I can sum it up again: Originally, I thought your gambit looked the same as the one RR pulled in MM. I didn't think much of it and it was a null tell to me. In general, my read on you was town due mostly to your answers to questions. To be honest, it was gut town based on activity, which is something one should not do. When T-Block posted his case, I agreed with it. I saw the validity of it, and I re-read your content to check over it. It turned out I did see where T-Block was coming from, but I decided to question him and oppose the idea for a time to get a read on T-Block based on his responses and defense of his posts. I got a town read on T-Block as a result and the purpose of that was finished. As I've said, I find it much easier to read someone when I am in a direct argument/discussion with them. This may be WIFOM, sure, but: Why would my switch in opinions over to you be so blatant if I were originally defending you? What purpose would I have to put myself out there to defend JTB just so I could later lynch him? Sure, reading at face value would tell you that I'm wishy-washy and I'm just hopping on the wagon. That seems hella obvious and fishy just from reading it, though, and I don't think scum should be that stupid. Obviously me saying this will invalidate it due to WIFOM, but wouldn't it make no sense to do what I did?

Either way, I do agree with what T-Block has said about you. Even on the chance that you are town, your lynch helps give us connections and, as a VT, you would not have reacted how you did to the wagon. I'm not saying you should have accepted it, because giving up is never good, but I do think your defense was more flawed in intentions than my initial read-through yielded.

Those last words are pretty shallow, you skip completely over Red Ryu? He's not one of the less-spoken players. I'd like to see more from you if you're town, because we still have over 24 hours until deadline and you can contribute more than that, even if you still get lynched.

Ugh... that's pretty grimy. Did you leave any crumbs or clues that would lead us to believe that this was your intention from the beginning? Basically, can you bring up anything that would show that you're not just backpedalling after being put under pressure?

 

[Xiivi]

Vc1i

6/10|10.27.11 11:59PM EST

votee|voters
JTB|T-block/Red Ryu/Kantrip/John2k4/Auspher/
Auspher|Gustave/TokyoGamer7/
Kantrip|JTB/
No Vote|Terywj/The Paprika Killer/

 

[T-block]

Auspher - town because he is Peanut and Peanut is definitely town

Gustave - scum if JTB flips scum, because JTB did not call out Gustave for doing things similar to what RR did, and Gustave couldn't seem to get his thoughts with respect to JTB straight in early game, plus having him as town for a pretty weak reason; however, he's been pretty consistent in his stance now, so if JTB flips town i would have him as null

John2k4 - a leaning town read... i really get the feeling that he is playing alone here, and his play is incredibly similar to a previous town flip of his
JTB - yeah

Kantrip - leaning scum at the moment, but i'll definitely be rereading his posts that come after my case on JTB (AND EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD TOO) to see if i can find anything that suggests his recently claimed motivations hold true; at the moment, it feels more like backpedalling out of pressure than it actually being his true intentions; i dislike how after my case on JTB he didn't say much in response or about JTB at all - instead, he asked a whole bunch of other players questions whenever they posted; if JTB flips scum, this could be a scummate looking for a possible separate direction to go down, then a more solid attempt to derail my case, followed by a backing out to try to gain the town credit of calling JTB scum; if JTB flips town, i dunno... i would have Kantrip as town for going against the flow and opposing the lynch, but then he says he agreed with the case from the beginning lol... he is probably the biggest question mark in this game at the moment - might be a good cop target JUST SAYING

Red Ryu - pretty sure he's not scum; i like how he responded to my pressure about the fallback lynch issue earlier in the Day; i've looked carefully at his posts and haven't found any inconsistencies in his play, and he seems to be able to come to a lot of the same conclusions as me, which is nice, and at the same time, i don't feel he is sheeping me at all

Terywj - liked him when he started catching up... his posts showed independent conclusions and thoughts, and i think scum Tery is scared to put that out there; but then, a lot of his more recent posts have been...questionable, but i can definitely see it as poor townie play here, as none of his bad posts really scream scum motivation (the auspher-vt thing, for example... no reason to suspect him as scum for that); i'm not too worried about Tery

The Paprika Killer - not sure on this... he's slipped under my radar this Day, unfortunately. i liked him initially because his pressure on Gustave lined up with my thoughts on the matter, but i haven't seen anything i particularly liked since then; scum flip from JTB would have him leaning town for me though

TokyoGamer7 - town because of the reaction to JTB's gambit; scum in their first game would not act the way he did; he is showing genuine frustration, especially with his modkill request; pretty confident in this read - he might be useless, but he's not scum; be wary if anyone tries to push his lynch in LYLO or something

 

[T-block]

If T-Block is scum, he would be an indy, so don't play him off as town just because he's one of the more experienced players.

I'd love to hear what makes me indy, as opposed to possible mafia.

Actually I know why... it's because there's no way I'm gonna be mafia after you flip mafia

 

[JTB]

And I'd love to see you post-game after I flip town and you feel like the biggest idiot in the world.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So like, is there anything else to be said here.

 

[T-block]

And I'd love to see you post-game after I flip town and you feel like the biggest idiot in the world.

I GUESS WE'LL SEE THEN

But seriously, I'm sure the others would also love to know why they should be looking at me as possible indy rather than possible mafia.

 

[T-block]

Tery, have you caught up? Why did you stop posting your thoughts on the posts as you went? I liked that.

Let's say D2 of this game is special in that nobody is allowed to post anything except for votes, and town needs to lynch within 24 hours. Who would you want lynched if JTB flips scum toDay? What if he flips town?

I'm expecting to see your behaviour D2 reflect your answers here.

 

[JTB]

Because I don't believe you are mafia. Immediately after my case, you stated that you are going to probably die during the Night and should get a doc protect. From that post, I can tell you really thought you hit scum, hence not mafia. But indies can scumhunt as well, so that's why I don't write you off as 100% town.

 

[T-block]

Kay. I'm good with that actually.

 

[Vinylic.]

Wow, that hit was more harder than sakura's punch naruto.

 

[T-block]

TG7, we're likely just going to ignore you for the rest of the game.

Are you at all interested in learning how to play this game well?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@Mod: Request replacement for TokyoGamer7

 

[T-block]

Why, Tery?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Because as much as I am anyway since I suck, dead weight is even worse when they're just goofing around and not actually trying. At least I try and suck at trying.

 

[T-block]

Then, how about wasting time playing sideline referee, you put effort into trying to contribute to town's efforts to winning this game?

Again, are you caught up? Can you answer my question if you are?

 

[T-block]

EBWOP: how about instead of wasting time*

 

[Kantrip]

I did say in my first post after your case (my #278, I believe) that you had good points. Then my next post was asking JTB to claim and voting Gustave. I voted Gustave because I liked what you said about their connection, and JTB had enough votes on him, I forget what L-X he was at.

Those posts made it pretty obvious that I agreed I think. Opposing the idea to get a good discussion with T-Block was more of an afterthought.

I think people should re-read again with this in mind.

T-Block, you still positive JTB will flip scum? Would you still wager your life on that decision?

 

[T-block]

Hmm... I promise you a re-read, but I'm going to postpone it until after the flip. No point in doing it before that really.

Meh... it's clear he's going to be the lynch toDay and he's still pretty adamant about insisting that he's town, so I guess I wouldn't risk my life. I don't really care though - it's still very likely he will flip scum, and that he's just messing with me right now. Regardless, what's done is done... if he flips town I'll deal with the consequences toMorrow.

 

[Kantrip]

What that says to me is you feel no need pretending you think he's going to flip scum anymore.

At least, that's how I read it.

So I ask, what changed your read on him and made him look more town to you, to the point of you questioning your confident read?

Is it just because he insists he's town? I don't think so. It should take more than that to make town-block question his super confident scum reads.

 

[Kantrip]

If the option were currently available to me, I would investigate T-Block ToNight on a town JTB flip.

 

[T-block]

I'm still pretty damn confident in the read, as I said. It's just that it's one of those situations where there's basically no point in lying any more. The only time I saw JTB lynched IIRC was when he wasn't even there, so I can't say if he's one to lie in Twilight situations. So yes, it is just because of his insistence, and my read on him hasn't even weakened by that much.

You're acting funny, though, Kantrip, and I think it's because I called for a cop on you. You said you agreed with the points in my case against JTB. In other words, you evaluated my points using your own logic and agreed they were sound, which lead you to the conclusion that JTB was scummy. Why, then, are you questioning my motivations? I presented a case, and it was validated by the majority of town, including you and RR, two of the strongest players in this game apart from JTB. I'd have to be a pretty damn good scum manipulator to achieve that unless the scum tells are actually there, no? My motivation has always been to lynch scum, not to mislynch town, and everything should point to that.

It'd be a waste to cop me because I will have myself cleared by toMorrow, assuming I don't die. Cop me if you want, but Kantrip is a much better choice - and that's not just from my perspective.

 

[JTB]

Talking about Pizza? Man, I think I was more mad at that game than I am at this one.

 

[Kantrip]

I don't mind being investigated. In fact, being cop cleared would be kind of nice. I've never had the luxury.

You shouldn't have to worry about what I said about investigating you, though. JTB is flipping scum, right?

I am questioning your motivations because that is what looking deeper than face value entails. I want to really look at intent here. Scum can make good cases too, and often do so. If JTB flips scum, you are going to be cleared on account of being the reason of his lynch.

If it's a mis-lynch and you're also alive toMorrow, there is obviously warrant for suspicion, if only because the mis-lynch would have been led by you. I'm not saying it would incriminate you, because we would obviously look at everyone in a different late after the night phase.

 

[T-block]

Yep, Pizza lol. Still not sure why you were lynched x.x

Yeah, it's sorta implied that "cop me if you want" is if he flips town. And if he does and I'm alive tomorrow, I'd expect nothing less than to be scrutinized. Although not so much for the being alive part because it could be an attempt by scum to frame me. Besides, doc is going to protect me, right? ^^;

Kantrip, what is JTB going to flip?

 

[Kantrip]

At this point, I don't even know.

I find it unlikely to catch scum on D1. Though it happened in MM.... It could go either way for me. And both options make my reads go in a separate direction. Doc is totally going to maybe protect you in such a maybe way that creates WIFOM where they may or may not protect you.

JTB, what is JTB going to flip?

 

[John2k4]

You sure there's even a Doc in this game, TB? It's on the smaller side...

-

Kanty I can't tell if that's a horrible way of pretending to have the Doc role or what...it made my eyes sad.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not trying to pretend I have the doc role. Protect WIFOM is good.

I bet there's a jailor in this game that puts dogs in their kennels

 

[John2k4]

I bet there's a jailor in this game that puts dogs in their kennels

I was pondering how Xiivi plans to play out the Lynch scene for a bit earlier today...I'm thinking he'll do something like: "With a commotion, "Bob" was stuffed into the back of a truck. As it sped away, an official-looking paper blew in the breeze. It read: *Flip info here*."

I'm wondering whether he'll actually "Lynch" the characters, or find a way to do it without "killing" them.

 

[T-block]

At this point, I don't even know.

Sure you don't know?

Someone be sure to hammer btw... deadline in less than 10 hours.

Looks like we're relying on Tery or TPK x.x

TG7, if you read this, you can vote JTB.

 

[John2k4]

Someone be sure to hammer btw... deadline in less than 10 hours.

Deadline is 11:59PM EST, 10/27...We have a little less than 24 hours TB.

 

[JTB]

I was killed in Pizza for 'connections'. Guess what? The people who pushed for my lynch because of connections died that night and my lynch didn't do anything. Indy lovers win.

 

[Kantrip]

I think we have enough people here who can make use of your interactions with other players.