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Homophobia in the black community

Savon

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Link to original post: [drupal=4546]Homophobia in the black community[/drupal]



Before I begin I REALLY hope that anybody who ends up reading this blog can relate to what I am talking about, and a lot of what I am going to talk about comes from personal experience and that will be what I base most of my statements/theories off of.

Yesterday I was out with my mother and brother shopping for things before I move into my college dorm on Wednesday. While out of the house we decided to eat lunch at this little Chinese buffet. Although my family is not nearly as politically aware as me I like to try and start a conversation about things going on in the world around us just to spark some healthy discussion. I told my mom about an article my friend posted on facebook about changes Rick Perry wanted to make to the constitution, and how I agreed with one or two, but thought the rest were absurd. The change that bothered me in particular was the one about him making a constitutional ban on gay marriage across the entire nation. My brother is not even remotely politically aware and pretty much everything he says relating to issues in the world is something stupid. He begins to spew nonsense about how he hates gays and how if you accept the gays you ARE gay. (Part of his nonsense was him just being a troll, but is still EXTREMELY homophobic for no reason). When I asked him why he disliked the gays his responses were all basically just "Because they are gay".

Trying to be reasonable I attempted to draw and analogy to the rights of blacks who were denied basic rights not even a lifetime ago for some people. Nonetheless he still refused to see my logic. He constantly said that he should not have to put up with gay people. I was quick to remind him that racist whites in the 40s/50s felt the same way. It was an ignorant irrational hatred for blacks that had nothing to back it up or support it. "I don't **** because they are gay" I don't like ******s because they are black". Is there a difference in this logic? Why is the black community in particular so homophobic? I acknowledge that homophobia exists in all many places and groups, but in my life I have seen it is particularly strong amongst black people. With that being said I somewhat have a theory about why it is like this. It always bothered me how my own people who were so recently discriminated against could EVER stand against the innate rights of a fellow human being.

Now I will go on to my theory. To see the roots of this problem one must look far back into the past. Due to the after effects of slavery and the civil rights movement, not only did many blacks spend their entire lives in extreme poverty, but there as always been a cultural focus on being successful to escape the nightmare that is poverty. This tends to especially be the case when it comes to men because of the role the man has always played historically in the African-American family. What I am talking about can be especially seen in the 80s up until now. It was during this time that many young black males began to see success as athletes and musicians. The prime example being Michael Jordan and the dawn of his shoes. People like him began to represent a chance for the young and poor to become extremely wealthy despite the challenges that await them. The same can be see with many successful rappers as well. But at this point you are probably wondering what the heck any of this was to do with gay people?

The connection comes from what type of mentality this idea of materialism fosters. Basically I believe that it all fosters a strong concept of hypermasculinity. Ones success is gauged by the quality of ones clothes or how much money they are making. This concept of the idea "man" totally shuns any inkling of homosexuality. It is also made worse by the general behavior that one can see in rap music. You see young black males surrounded by the "dream". They are surrounded by jewels, money, cars, women, clothes. If any of things are not in place than you obviously are not living the "dream" right? So the quickest way to drag a man living this "dream" or one who wants to live this dream is to question his wealth and make him less of a man by calling him gay. This entire post I made is also the same reason I feel that the black community does not emphasize education compared to other minorities in America. I think that basically our priorities are ****ed up beyond belief.

I am not gay, but I deeply care about the rights of my fellow man, and I think that the homophobia i see in my own people is extremely hypocritical considering how our own situation once was not too long ago.
 

Fried Ice Cream

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I can attest that this is not just you, but both of us!

The absolute worst is:
"I've got nothing against gays, but if one comes near me I'll pound his head in, I want nothing to with them"
 

Largemike32197

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There was no question if you were gay or not and even if you were gay it would hardly matter this isn't a sex site.

I think there might be more than one cause the biggest for males i think is the bathroom.

When you go pee our culture of being so close nude is very unconfortable so we try to avoid being close as we pee or men nude. Might explain why its mostly man on man not woman on woman that is really frowned on due to the culture difference.

I think farther education would help either side.

:phone:
 

Teran

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Minorities are the most prejudiced of all because :

- They don't have any residual guilt from past oppression of others
- They like the feeling of having someone "below" them so they don't feel like the underclass.
- Minorities (blacks for sure) face greater challenges in the socio economic aspect of life, so they're more likely to receive a piss poor education, meaning more of them will be ignorant and bigoted.

The thing is, I wouldn't even say that blacks are more homophobic than whites, it's just that black aren't as prone to hide their views. White people are more sneaky when it comes to social politics, and most of them will just parrot the views of a powerful societal group to keep everything in their lives smooth.

Also don't come in and tell me OH THIS ISN'T INDICATIVE OF ALL ____ PEOPLE because I know that so stfu you ****ing pansy ****nut.

Ah, that felt good, and remember, it isn't flaming if you don't have a technical target!
 

Glöwworm

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Link to original post: [drupal=4546]
Trying to be reasonable I attempted to draw and analogy to the rights of blacks who were denied basic rights not even a lifetime ago for some people.
Quite frankly, I believe if you don't understand this analogy, you'll never understand another explanation as to why it's hypocritical of you to hate on gay people if you're black or any other person that has faced discrimination against something that's out of your control.
 

Spelt

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Ah, that felt good, and remember, it isn't flaming if you don't have a technical target!
Hoooly ****.
This just cut down my amount of future infractions by at least half.
 

Fuelbi

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You know something tells me that a possible reason for this is because they're so goddamned pissed that they were treated the way they were they just feel like they need to get revenge for 250 years of horrible treatment that they should just take it out on some other minority, which happens to be gays because they're today's blacks

but then that's probably a ******** theory and nothing I say should be taken seriously
 

MuraRengan

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Savon, I'm disappointed that you'd even attempt to reason with your brother.

You can't do anything about homophobes, just like you can't do anything about racists. This isn't about rights, it's about changing people's minds. For all intents and purposes, people have as much liberty to be homophobes as they do to be racist, no matter how stupid their reasoning may seem to you. If a person decides that they don't want to associate with gays because of their orientation or they way they act and carry themselves, it's their prerogative, just as one would choose not to associate with drug dealers, douchebags, Christians, atheists, blacks, whites, snitches, ****s, or any other social group you can think of. People decide for themselves what and whom they do and do not want to associate with. Gays are no different. You can't force everyone to accept and want to be around them.
 

frotaz37

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I think part of it is that the formation of culture among black Americans has been frowned upon by white Americans. Jazz culture, hip hop culture, basically anything that isn't black people emulating white people is traditionally demonized. Because of this, and because all traces of African culture were destroyed through slavery and dehumanization, black Americans lack a cultural identity.

This becomes a problem because a lot of black Americans are reminded by society every day that they are black. So then the question becomes "What does it mean to be black?". Since a lot of people are insecure about being black (this is a widespread phenomenon that began because of the white supremacy ideals that were beaten into the minds of slaves for generations and is perpetuated by the way black people are negatively perceived and treated badly by society), they will try to answer to this question by embracing a culture that has been deemed "black".

This culture just happens to glorify gay bashing, therefore anti-gay sentiments become part of what it means to be black. I think has little to do with gay people, and so much to do with the peer pressure young black people receive from other young black people to be black and just as importantly, not to be white.

What Teran said is also a part of it I think, as is your explanation, Savon.

I think that basically our priorities are ****ed up beyond belief.
Which man can save his brothers soul? Oh man, it's just self control.
 

El Nino

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Savon, I'm glad that there are people like you who are willing to talk about this topic, especially in the face of those who are not receptive to it at all. They probably need to hear it the most. The LGBT rights movement in the U.S. is very white dominated; it doesn't really reach minority communities, and it isolates LGBT persons of color. If you're gay/les/trans/etc and also a racial/ethnic minority, then you're essentially a double minority. You don't have a place within either community.

Some people blame the gay rights movement for not being inclusive of minorities, but I think that whites, coming from a different cultural background, aren't in a good position to address minorities on their prejudices. So the task falls onto LGBT persons of color to address their own communities, but that's a movement being built from the ground up as we speak, and it's hard to talk about something that still doesn't have a name in some cultures and traditions. As Teran said, non-whites are usually more open with their prejudices. This will shut you up and shut you down long before "coming out" is even an option.

You're not the only one to point to hypermasculinity as a cause for homophobia in the black community (or other communities). Hypermasculine cultures are often highly sexist, and many other critics have said that the lack of respect for women is closely tied to fear and hatred of homosexuality and transgenderism. Homosexuality is viewed as being a disruption in rigidly defined gender roles. The more strictly a culture holds to gender roles, the more strongly it reacts to homosexuality. What makes a "man" depends a great deal on what other men are doing. A man who takes on the role of the "woman" in romantic relationships is viewed as a threat to everyone else's masculinity. Similarly, a woman who takes on the role of a "man" is also considered a threat to the male ego.
 

Shorts

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Trying to be reasonable I attempted to draw and analogy to the rights of blacks who were denied basic rights not even a lifetime ago for some people. Nonetheless he still refused to see my logic.
I always thought this was a sort of trump card. If someone doesn't acknolwedge this as a legitimate statement in any way, they're not even worth talking to and are going to ignore anything you have to say. What I would have seen as commen ground is clearly being overlooked, which makes me even more nervous to move to a bigger, more diverse city where I'll be walking to school everyday alone. Putting up with Hick kids in a small town community was hard enough, but something like this just sounds terrible to deal with. At least at my school some of the kids were forced to get to know me, and not totally hate me. -.-

Generally, I thought it could be like the two picked on kids at the playground meeting up and becoming friends.

"AH! They hate you too!?!" :D
 

mountain_tiger

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I'll never understand how someone can be against someone being gay in general - it's not like they chose to be gay. Now, being against gay people having sex is a different matter entirely, since in that case they do have a choice, but people always seem to assume that all gay people have sex with each other, which isn't true.
 

Spelt

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I'll never understand how someone can be against someone being gay in general - it's not like they chose to be gay. Now, being against gay people having sex is a different matter entirely, since in that case they do have a choice, but people always seem to assume that all gay people have sex with each other, which isn't true.



Literally making this face IRL right now.
 

Browny

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How old is your brother?

if hes like, <21, hit him with the statistic about how on average, 7% of people are gay (lets leave out the technicalities of what constitutes gay or not, with sexuality being a spectrum where people will define the boundaries differently). Youd do this by asking how many friends he has, then do the quick maths by giving a % likelihood that one of them is gay (if he answers 10 or less, just say 1 lol). for reference, that means theres a 70% chance that one of them is gay. Then ask how he would respond if his friend told him this.

Just be sure to remind him it is more than likely that at least one person he considers a friend is actually gay.

At least I think thats the most polite way to go about waking him up to the real world :/
 

Teran

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Gay blacks may be discriminated by peers, but they're usually the most popular guys in prison. :denzel:
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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I'll never understand how someone can be against someone being gay in general - it's not like they chose to be gay. Now, being against gay people having sex is a different matter entirely, since in that case they do have a choice, but people always seem to assume that all gay people have sex with each other, which isn't true.
...What are you saying? What the **** do you want them to do? 'Hey, you're gay, and that's fine, but you can't have sex cuz that's just gross'. Do you not see the issue with that?
 

Supreme Dirt

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tiger just has weird opinions.

By weird I mean opinions that make me want to bash my head against something
 

mountain_tiger

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Literally making this face IRL right now.
I'm not even sure what sort of expression that's meant to be. Anger? Confusion? He's about to sneeze?


...What are you saying? What the **** do you want them to do? 'Hey, you're gay, and that's fine, but you can't have sex cuz that's just gross'. Do you not see the issue with that?
"Hate the act, not the person"
 

Teran

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I resent the fact that someone should resent me doing it to a guy with love while they're out ****ing prostitutes and insufflating certain powders off their breasts.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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"Hate the act, not the person"
There's no ****ing logical reason to hate either the act or the person. Like do you understand what being homosexual is? It means you're SEXUALLY ATTRACTED to someone of the same sex as you, i.e. you want to HAVE SEX WITH THEM. You can't say you have nothing against gay people if the action you have a problem with (gay sex) is the exact characteristic that defines their homosexuality.

Also I agree with Spelt.
 

Spelt

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What Solid said.
You obviously do hate gay people and you just can't/won't admit it.

You're probably one of those guys who can't stand the idea of 2 gay guys having sex but you're completely fine with lesbians doing it. :|
 

Savon

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Being gay is what makes gay people gay. So if you hate gays actions you hate gays. The same way if you hate **** then you hate rapists as well.

Besides the fact that being gay harms NOBODY, so any hate or prejudice is irrational and ingnorant.

:phone:
 

mountain_tiger

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What Solid said.
You obviously do hate gay people and you just can't/won't admit it.

You're probably one of those guys who can't stand the idea of 2 gay guys having sex but you're completely fine with lesbians doing it. :|
I'm not one for double standards. Besides, I'm gay myself - I just feel uneasy at the thought of acting on it.

If people want to do that, then that's fine. It's none of my business after all.
 

KRDsonic

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So if you hate gays actions you hate gays. The same way if you hate **** then you hate rapists as well.
Sorry to say, but this argument is false. Someone who is gay is someone who is just someone who is sexually attracted to someone of the same gender. Someone who is a rapist is someone who performs ****.

It is possible to be gay and not have sex.

It is not possible to be a rapist without having ***** someone.

Edit:

How old is your brother?

if hes like, <21, hit him with the statistic about how on average, 7% of people are gay (lets leave out the technicalities of what constitutes gay or not, with sexuality being a spectrum where people will define the boundaries differently). Youd do this by asking how many friends he has, then do the quick maths by giving a % likelihood that one of them is gay (if he answers 10 or less, just say 1 lol). for reference, that means theres a 70% chance that one of them is gay. Then ask how he would respond if his friend told him this.

Just be sure to remind him it is more than likely that at least one person he considers a friend is actually gay.

At least I think thats the most polite way to go about waking him up to the real world :/
There's a problem with this too. If you give someone statistics, you have to have a source to back it up. His brother could easily say "Prove it" and because he doesn't know the source where you got this info, he wouldn't be able to and then it wouldn't solve anything.

:059:
 

Spelt

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Go look up the definition of Rapist.
I don't have a response for this sarcastic enough to do it justice.

I know it does, but if OP's brother is hard-headed enough to act the way he does, do you honestly think he would Google it?
Savon would google it.
 

Browny

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If he denies stats, ask would he force a friend who admitted being gay, to prove it?

Theres nothing you can do vs pathological ignorance and hate, even if he conducts a survey himself he wont believe it. All you can do is hope that people arent that stupid.

:phone:
 

KRDsonic

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That's true. That's why I don't even bother trying to reason with people who clearly want to hate something just to hate it and don't care about understanding what it is. Some people simply can't grasp that stereotypes are not true for every person of a particular group.

:059:
 
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