HOBO 11(houston,tx-october 4th). Guys, something needs to be done about metaknights.

[Xyro77]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197642

My HOBO11 was this past saturday and 112 people showed up. we did 20 pools of 7(top 3 move on) and then brackets. i placed 17th. M2k/azen/dsf/edreese and about 15-20 metaknights MADE it into brackets.....there were about 10-15 more that didnt make it into brackets.

Brawl 1vs1

1: M2K (meta)
2: Azen (lucario/meta)
3: Lee (meta)
4: DMG (wario
5: DSF (snake/meta)
5: Roy_R (marth)
7: Edrees (peach)
7: Hylian (GW/meta?)
9: Chuck (meta/pkmn)
9: Ky (pit)
9: Dojo (meta)
9: Magik (meta/pkmn)
13: Mr. 3000 (sonic/ddd)
13: Infinity (meta)
13: Ultamate Razor (snake)
13: Axe (wolf)
17: Fliphop (diddy)
17: Domo (meta)
17: UTD Zack (GW)
17: Dr. Mario Kart (meta)
17: Light
17: Santi (Tlink)
17: Xyro(SAMUS!!!)
17: Thien (diddy)
25: Nynja (diddy)
25: Lee Harris (rob/meta)
25: Zori (olimar)
25: Ice (snake)
25: Kown (pit)
25: Affinity (meta)
25: Bad News Bear (pika/wolf)
25: Bwett (yoshi)
33: T-Rex (snake)
33: ArturitoBurrito (ike)
33: Kira (marth/snake
33: Bluejay (mario)
33: Kosmos (peach/ZS)
33: Vash (pit)
33: Kalo (marth/wolf)
33: Sethlon (falco)
33: Salocin (meta/fox)
33: Furbs (yoshi)
33: Carnage (meta)
33: Gar (falco/marth)
33: C.Y. (falco)
33: Dingding (link)
33: Broli (fox/marth)
33: Axxo (falco/meta)
49: Kado (falco)
49: Mr.Sir.Dr.Daddy
49: Chaddly
49: Zeton (fox)
49: Trela
49: Gea
49: Heytallman (lucas)
49: Sam388
49: Swoll (ganon)
49: Toast
49: Tuxedo Maniac (wario)
60-112=pool players who didnt make it out



now please go back and count the metaknights. this is by far the biggest turn out of metas ive seen. Something needs to be done. There were SO many times i saw a persos MAIN get *****.....then they switch to metaknight and end up winning the set. Some thing needs to be done.

 

[TokiDoki]

Wow, way too many metaknights >.> Yea something needs to be done.

 

[Crystanium]

Sixteen Meta Knight's from my count. Seriously, no wonder people want Meta Knight banned. The more Meta Knight mainers that enter a tournament means that the chances of Meta Knight placing in first is increased. So, what do you want us to do, Xyro? I think Smash 64 or Low-Tier tournaments would be ideal. No Meta Knight at all.

 

[Minwu]

Sixteen Meta Knight's from my count. Seriously, no wonder people want Meta Knight banned. The more Meta Knight mainers that enter a tournament means that the chances of Meta Knight placing in first is increased. So, what do you want us to do, Xyro? I think Smash 64 or Low-Tier tournaments would be ideal. No Meta Knight at all.

I think Xyro is aiming for ways to beat Meta Knight.

 

[Crystanium]

I think Xyro is aiming for ways to beat Meta Knight.

We all know that Samus is at a great disadvantage against Meta Knight. What new discovery are we going to find that will allow us to beat "the answer to all our problems"?

 

[xYz]

pick up GW.

 

[theshortgamer]

Since i've never fought an elite metaknight, I went to their boards and looked at the videos... shock and awe... what character stands a chance? You don't have time to move/dodge/DI/attack/anything.

 

[viparagon]

wow.
thats incredibly gay.
I expected dojo to place higher, but alright.
How bout my idea of a 10% handicap on meta?

 

[Xyro77]

guys no no.

metaknight is the ONLY character in this game that has NO bad match-ups. GW and one other have an EVEN match-up with him....and thats if that GW is having a good day.

Please realize that NO MATTER how good you are(tudor/rohins/xyro) over all samus CANNOT and WILL not beat the HIGHLY good metaknights majority. you may get a few wins here and there but over all it cant be done.

Lots of people all across smashboards, allisgay, gamefaqs.....ect say that meta should be banned. Some give good reasons some give bad some dont care. This may be hard for you(and me) but lets list why meta SHOULD or SHOULDNT be banned(plz do both in one post). PLEASE do not argue. this goes for me as well

 

[Crystanium]

I've read about how if Meta Knight were to be banned, that it would only bring the next character who is top-tier. Namely, this would be Snake. But Snake isn't that difficult to beat. He is easily taken down by Donkey Kong, for example. His recovery isn't superb like Meta Knight's, who, by the way, can recover with any of his four special moves. Snake can be grabbed upon returning, and the only way for him to even return after this is if he uses a C4 on himself. This is all just an example for your information. I only brought this up to show we wouldn't have to ban other characters because of their brokeness.

 

[Darktemplio]

well, from personal experience, i have noticed that people have their main, then metaknight. Ive seen the whole lemme switch to meta since i lost the first match and next thing you know, they win the set.

As a toon link and olimar mainer, I know for a fact that when i end up playing a meta in a tourney, im gonna lose no matter how mediocre the meta is or how good i play. he is just too broken to the point that this morning i started practicing with him in case i come across one in a tourney.

now that i think about it, italys decision doesnt seem so bad. i mean, i wouldnt be surprised that if this keeps on, everyone will eventually end up playing meta in touneys.

people can whine all they want about there being a way to beat him but so far, there really isnt. and as far as im concerned, these ppl are the metaknight players themselves or simply play against really really sucky ones.

 

[Xyro77]

there is no other character that doesnt have an "answer". Off the top of my head:

DDD is weak too olimar/falco

Snake is weak to rob and dk and falco

so there is no "omg another character will take over"...........

 

[Darktemplio]

there is no other character that doesnt have an "answer". Off the top of my head:

DDD is weak too olimar/falco

Snake is weak to rob and dk and falco

so there is no "omg another character will take over"...........

yea its true, the game is pretty much well balanced....except for that one outlier...

A mediocre meta is usually > a good anything else

either that or the one fighting the meta really has to work their butt off to win :\

 

[0RLY]

Good job Xyro! I handle MK relatively well with DK. B-down covers ground approaches and rolls. Aerials are somewhat easily handled with shield grabs. Bair outranges MK in the air which means your hit should get priority over his. I could even fsmash MK through his glide attack. Ftilt outranges MK's... everything and comes out ridiculously fast. It's like a faster D3 ftilt with less end lag. DK's B-up is almost impossible to edgeguard against. B-up is an amazing ledge attack option as MK usually can't do anything about it, especially if you're good at timing the lagless ending. I've already mastered that.

Hm... didnt' think I'd end up talking about DK on the Samus boards. Creepy.

 

[Crystanium]

Hm... didnt' think I'd end up talking about DK on the Samus boards. Creepy.

If you think that's creepy, then you might think it's creepy that there are some Samus mainers here who use Donkey Kong as an alternative.

 

[Hylian]

GW vs MK is in MK's favor.

Also, Samus doesn't do too poorly vs MK. I played M2K with Samus vs MK 3 games and he 3 stocked me the first, but I got him to last stock in the other games. This was after he was 2 and 3 stocking my GW and MK.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Eliminating MK would make things a whole lot more competitive. As is now, if somebody loses a match, they switch to Meta and will most probably win. Everybody and there mother brother uses MK. Even if it's only as a secondary, 3rd, 4th even. MK plays to where if you pressure well enough you stand a good chance of winning. They use Meta Knight as a crutch basically. No solid counters, can gimp characters easily, lagless moves, if you mess up, it's no big deal as you arent left open for long, the list or pros are very long.

Eliminate the people using MK as a crutch. And you'l soon see alot of heated competitive matchups as it will be a character counter fest each round..

 

[Coldfront]

The tournament results speak for themselves. EVERYONE can win with MK, except against better MK players. My main issue is that he suffers no lag after his attacks. That and his broken shuttle loop and recovery (Pit's recovery is broekn too but at least the up+B isn't an attack).

 

[-Mars-]

Personally, as a Sheik player, if i'm going up against a MK......I camp. It's weird for me too cuz i'm usually the one playing super aggressive and edgeguarding all the time. Against MK I sit there, shoot needles, and stop aerial approaches with the chain. Once I get MK to around 85%, I switch to Zelda, then I only need one smash for the kill. Still extremely hard to win, you can almost never grab MK, but I think he can be beaten if you camp. Master your character and camp the sh*t out of him.

As Samus, at least she has the zair to stop aerial approaches and she can camp to the fullest. She actually has some decent things going for her in this matchup...........problem is her edgeguarding game pretty much is taken out of the equation............if only Samus had a really good kill move.

 

[prOAPC]

there was a character as good as MK in the previous smash?
i don't know much about ssb64, but i know that fox and falco were like the best characters in melee, but a marth had adv vs them, also jigglypuff (not sure)

 

[Aran]

Personally, as a Sheik player, if i'm going up against a MK......I camp. It's weird for me too cuz i'm usually the one playing super aggressive and edgeguarding all the time. Against MK I sit there, shoot needles, and stop aerial approaches with the chain. Once I get MK to around 85%, I switch to Zelda, then I only need one smash for the kill. Still extremely hard to win, you can almost never grab MK, but I think he can be beaten if you camp. Master your character and camp the sh*t out of him.

As Samus, at least she has the zair to stop aerial approaches and she can camp to the fullest. She actually has some decent things going for her in this matchup...........problem is her edgeguarding game pretty much is taken out of the equation............if only Samus had a really good kill move.

wait... how on earth do you find the time to switch to zelda against mk? the only time i can imagine is if they were really REALLY far off the stage. i don't see many situations for this.

 

[kown]

woah seriously... i skimmed the posts and it didnt seem liek anyone here is defending MK.

BAN HIM... this is what i want but should he really be banned? ioo no

 

[Xyro77]

in melee AND 64 there wasnt a broken character.

melee: fox/falco/shiek/marth all messed each other up.

ssb64: pika/kirby/ness all messed each other up(but to be honest, ssb64 cant really be used)

 

[-Mars-]

wait... how on earth do you find the time to switch to zelda against mk? the only time i can imagine is if they were really REALLY far off the stage. i don't see many situations for this.

Lots of ways: high up in the air, after I lose a stock. SInce I can't edgeguard i'll switch when he's knocked far away as well.

 

[Xiivi]

Match-up discussion for most character boards are not complete. Many match-ups are disputed, and this holds true for MK's match-ups. At this point characters are still finding methods to exploit MK's air grab release. Players are still learning about ways to deal with MK.

For quite some time, it was said DK 60:40 MK. Now it seems to be agreed DK 45:55 MK. There were also match-ups that were once thought to be even match-ups, which are now being listed in MKs favour.

If, when all characters feel confident in their match-up standing against MK and not a single character is at least even with MK, then MK would need to be banned. Why? At that point, we've said that every character is at a disadvantage against MK, then it would be agreed that at high level play MK would win every match-up. However, if even 1 character goes even or better with MK, then there is no grounds for banning the character. It would mean that at high level play, that character would have an equal chance of winning as MK. That 1 character could be used against MK and be able to win at top level play. That character may have counters, but those characters would have counters as well.

If, when MK's match-ups are fully understood, at least 1 character goes at least even with MK, then MK is not guaranteed a victory at high level play and thus has no reason to be banned. However if no such character exists and MK has no characters that are able to go even with him, then it would be assumed that MK would win every match at high level play and there would be no reason to ban him.

At this point there is no reason to ban MK as his match-ups are not fully understood, although they are approaching that point and it simply isn't looking good for MK.

 

[Mr.Fakeman]

Wow! No Captain Falcon players made it, because of MetaKnight maybe... there are way more new characters then the classical ones. More MKs mean a higher chance of a MK winning 1st place and it did!

 

[Serris]

I use Samus, the Trainer, and Link. Screw Meta Knight, I like my bottom tier.

 

[Crystanium]

I use Samus, the Trainer, and Link. Screw Meta Knight, I like my bottom tier.

Isn't there a difference between bottom-tier and low-tier, kind of like light-weight and feather-weight?

 

[Darth JoBak]

The bannination looms ever larger

 

[0RLY]

Samus, Link, and PT are all bottom tier. Their respective communities just refuses to admit bottom.

 

[Hive]

Samus, Link, and PT are all bottom tier. Their respective communities just refuses to admit bottom.

which is how it should be
Samus for mid tier or bust!

 

[Undrdog]

I always knew I liked the Samus forums. ^_^

 

[Tudor]

I don't know if I would go as far as banning him but I dunno... maybe he should be banned for the sake of the game.

 

[Xyro77]

I don't know if I would go as far as banning him but I dunno... maybe he should be banned for the sake of the game.

put your self in my place. wether your better or not. isnt it a tab bit STUPID to have THAT manny metaknights in the top 9?

or isnt it a tad DUMB to lose with your main but win with metaknight?

 

[Undrdog]

put your self in my place. wether your better or not. isnt it a tab bit STUPID to have THAT manny metaknights in the top 9?

or isnt it a tad DUMB to lose with your main but win with metaknight?

DING DING DING! It's really hard to drag myself to an actual tournament while this is a fact.

 

[Xyro77]

DING DING DING! It's really hard to drag myself to an actual tournament while this is a fact.

for the first time, we see eye to eye

 

[Undrdog]

for the first time, we see eye to eye

Oh no, I often see eye to eye with you. ^_^ Granted the strain on my neck from looking down keeps me from doing it for very long. lol

 

[Tudor]

put your self in my place. wether your better or not. isnt it a tab bit STUPID to have THAT manny metaknights in the top 9?

or isnt it a tad DUMB to lose with your main but win with metaknight?

Of course it's dumb. That's why i don't play metaknight and instead I play my character well. But yes I have to agree metaknight is quite stupid and is often picked up to increase placing in tourneys, but that's also why i don't care about tourney results and i care about skill. Overall i'm still undecided about whether metaknight should be banned or not.

I feel like this about it: If you want to win play metaknight, if you want to be good at brawl play your character as good as you can and people will notice. Plus if you're supper good you wont lose, so just be pro. Surprisingly I hardly lose to metaknight.

 

[Xyro77]

Oh no, I often see eye to eye with you. ^_^ Granted the strain on my neck from looking down keeps me from doing it for very long. lol

*hopes underdog dies*

 

[Tudor]

UndrDog is funny...