High School Mafia: A BRoom Game moved to DGames

[#HBC | marshy]

Also, what's with the votes on CK? Yeroc says he's suspicious of him but doesn't elaborate. Yeroc, why would CK volunteer to get himself lynched if he was part of the mafia? Matunas has a vote there too, but reading his post, it seems that he wanted a defense from him to get activity going.

That's not to say that CK has to be town, it just seems unlikely and I think we have a better candidate for lynching in Xsyven.

 

[Yeroc]

My vote for CK came very heavily debated between him and Alt, someone I've already pointed out my suspicion for and echoes with the reasons given recently by other people. CK's offer to be voted out of the game was quite magnanimous. It paints him in a very town light. But without making light of the dire real-life situation he was facing at the time (hurricanes don't **** around), I still wonder at times if it could have been a gamble on his part to eradicate any suspicion he might have.

As for my brevity on the subject, notice that it was about 4:30 on Sunday morning, and I was on my way out the door for work that day, where I'd be until after the deadline had passed. I'll admit it was partly a tossup, but I also figured if I gave him a plurality that it would incite some others to some last-minute activity. Almost shockingly, nothing happened in the next 8 hours. I figured people would take the deadline a little more seriously.

I'm still rather suspicious of CK, and Alt, and maybe a couple other people. For now, I'm gonna take back my vote, and keep looking for signs and information.

Unvote:CK

 

[Xsyven]

Xsyven is more suspicious.

Unvote: Mediocre

Vote: Xsyven

Right now, I want to focus on Xsyven. He voted me/KevinM because Kevin "never once gave solid reasons for any of his posts", even though you can see for yourself that Kevin did explain if you look at the posts I linked to earlier. Again, he's exaggerating when he says that so he can get away with lynching another townie. Lynch 'em and call it a day.

So yeah, I'll admit I'm not really good at Mafia, but Lynch 'em and call it a day? You seem to forget that out of the 6 dead people, only 2 of them are lynched, and only 1 of them I voted for.

It was a bit of an exaggeration when I said KevinM never explains himself. I was drunk when I assumed it, and for some reason, the assumption stuck with me. So I'll admit to that. The original post was a plot to get the game moving more, and the only reason I revoted for him was because of the deadline.

Unvote: KevinM Marshigio

As I said to Kevin, if he could explain himself, I'd switch the vote to AltF4. I can't say for sure if he's a Jester role or not, but everyone else has a better alibi. =/ Other than the odds of AltF4 being a Jester, are there any other reasons we should keep him around?

Vote: AltF4Warrior

 

[Mediocre]

As I said to Kevin, if he could explain himself, I'd switch the vote to AltF4. I can't say for sure if he's a Jester role or not, but everyone else has a better alibi. =/ Other than the odds of AltF4 being a Jester, are there any other reasons we should keep him around?

Vote: AltF4Warrior

If he is a jester, we should definitely keep him around. Sure, he won't actively help the town, but at this point we need any non-mafia player we can get.

 

[Xsyven]

I don't really think he's a Jester. If he was trying to be killed, someone as smart as AltF4 would be doin a lot better of a job at it. You know, at least pretending to be town, being purposefully suspicious, etc.

I don't think its a character limitation, either. So far, no one has stuck to their characters except for Matt. And he was just a vanilla townie. =/

 

[Xsyven]

Well, he's being purposefully suspicious, but he's not pretending to be town... so yeah.

 

[Matunas]

Also, what's with the votes on CK? Yeroc says he's suspicious of him but doesn't elaborate. Yeroc, why would CK volunteer to get himself lynched if he was part of the mafia? Matunas has a vote there too, but reading his post, it seems that he wanted a defense from him to get activity going.

That's not to say that CK has to be town, it just seems unlikely and I think we have a better candidate for lynching in Xsyven.

My vote was because of the deadline, hoping to get activity going, I've seen nothing productive (recently) out of CK, and out of a general suspicion towards him, Alt, and Xsyven he felt like to one to go for.

I doubt Alt's role has an actual role restriction as I stated earlier. Due to what Xsyven just pointed out Matt was a vanilla townie and he decided to go along with his class clown role out of fun. If Alt were to actually have being a **** as his restriction that's pretty weak.

Honestly I'm not that confident voting for anyone right now. I'm going to do a reread and post again.

Unvote - CK

 

[Mediocre]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Marshigio (1): Xsyven
KevinM (1): AltF4
AltF4Warrior (3): Mediocre, Crimson King, Xsyven
Xsyven (1): Marshigio


I'm not particularly happy with the level of information or activity we have right now. Really, I wish AltF4 would pop in and just explain his actions a little bit. However, I'm not sure that you're going to.

AltF4, please post soon or else it seems like you're going to wind up dead.

 

[Xsyven]

You have me on there twice, Medi.

 

[AltF4]

Well, since I'm probably ****ed, I might as well point out some people I think you all should look at when I'm gone.

I'd be mostly afraid of people who voted for me but "seemed unsure" or "on the fence". There's not too many people left in this game anymore. Hiding behind not being sure is an easy way to avoid blame.

Plus, the Mafia will not all vote for the person who gets voted off. That would be entirely too obvious. Plus, they could only get away with that once. Most likely, the mafia will wait for two people to vote for a single person (me), and then jump on it to finish the job. That's how I would do it, anyway.

At this point though, leaving three votes will be sufficient to ensure me being voted off. A fourth won't be necessary unless something drastic happens. If things start to turn around for me, but a fourth vote comes in and finishes me off before I get saved, be very suspicious of that fourth person.

So according to my reasoning, Xsyven should be scrutinized quite heavily. He was the third and last person to vote for me, essentially putting my head on the chopping block.

Mediocre, though he voted for me, seems to want to give me an honest chance to rebut. Very curious. Either he's an innocent townsperson (who I said would likely be the ones who vote first) or he's a mafia who's concerned about me being a jester.


...I mean, **** you guys! If you kill me, I'm gonna haunt you all while you're sleeping.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

I doubt Alt's role has an actual role restriction as I stated earlier. Due to what Xsyven just pointed out Matt was a vanilla townie and he decided to go along with his class clown role out of fun. If Alt were to actually have being a **** as his restriction that's pretty weak.

That's the thing though, Jesters suck. They're supposed to piss people off, like Tom did in Marvel Mafia. As for Xsyven's question, I'm not sure why he wouldn't be dead if he was a jester by now. With so little time, maybe he didn't have the time to be as annoying as he wanted to be? He's smart, but this is his first game isn't it? Maybe he wasn't sure how to go about it in his first game?

I can't say for sure if he's a Jester role or not, but everyone else has a better alibi. =/

If you're unsure, why risk it? What better reason to not lynch somebody than "Everybody else loses"? Also, I don't know what you mean when you say everyone else has a better alibi, when only a few people have been questioned this day.

That's partly why I'm adamant about keeping Alt. KevinM and CK were challenged, got a few votes on them, then unvoted shortly after. During this, Medi votes for Alt, and Xsyven and CK go along with it. No one else is questioned or challenged, just evaluations of the players which haven't done much. It's like everybody just gives up, and 2 of the 3 most active players that are still alive having nothing else to say. I'm still for lynching Xsyven, but even a no lynch would be better at this point.

I hadn't noticed that only 2 people were lynched. With the plurality, it's possible that the mafia didn't need to vote much earlier in the game. With so few people, and a mafia member that everyone seems to believe is town in Mediocre, this would be a good time to start leading the town into voting townies, with Xsyven, someone who's posted a lot and hasn't been under much scrutiny, to back him up. It'd be a near perfect strategy, so I think that's what the mafia are going for.

Unofficial Vote Count:


Marshigio (1): AltF4
AltF4Warrior (3): Mediocre, Crimson King, Xsyven
Xsyven (1): Marshigio

Much better.


We're pretty much boned if we vote off another townie then have the mafia get another nightkill.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

CK, Medi, and Xsyven have votes on Alt. Yeroc posts saying that he had trouble deciding on voting Alt or CK. I took Alt off the list because he obviously wouldn't vote for himself.

Still enrolled in Broomer High:
1. Crimson King
2. Eor
4. Mediocre
6. Xsyven
9. Matunas replaced <3 (replaced tmw_redcell)
10. Yeroc
13. Marshigio replaced KevinM

Over half of the other players have openly suspected Alt of being mafia today, and you mean to tell me that not one of them is mafia? 'Cuz if one of them is, it should be clear that they're trying to convince the other townies to vote off one of their own, since they're at the home stretch by now.

From this list, I believe Medi and Xsyven are leading Alt's lynching, with CK being a townie who voted him to get pressure off of him, as he led in votes earlier, and simply believed the two.

Then, I believe Eor to be town and bored with the game, and I'm unsure about Matunas.

 

[Mediocre]

That's partly why I'm adamant about keeping Alt. KevinM and CK were challenged, got a few votes on them, then unvoted shortly after. During this, Medi votes for Alt, and Xsyven and CK go along with it. No one else is questioned or challenged, just evaluations of the players which haven't done much. It's like everybody just gives up, and 2 of the 3 most active players that are still alive having nothing else to say. I'm still for lynching Xsyven, but even a no lynch would be better at this point.

I agree with this. And your arguments haven't convinced me that Alt isn't mafia, but they have convinced me that more time needs to be spent deliberating before we make a lynch and, if we get it wrong, potentially hand the win to the mafia (if they've got three members).

As such, I'm going to tie the votes by voting for you. This will force a no lynch, meaning we won't lynch anybody today and will give the mafia a free night kill, but it will only hurt our numbers by one. That means that, no matter if there's two or three mafia, we won't lose any time.

Unvote: AltF4Warrior
Vote: Marshigio


If anyone suddenly votes for AltF4 or Marshy without a **** good reason, I'm going to consider that person mafia.

 

[Mediocre]

As such, I'm going to tie the votes by voting for you. This will force a no lynch, meaning we won't lynch anybody today and will give the mafia a free night kill, but it will only hurt our numbers by one. That means that, no matter if there's two or three mafia, we won't lose any time.

And, yes, I realize that this will almost definitely cost us a townie, with no chance of offing a mafia, and that this will mean the town is down a vote. But right now, we need time. Time we can hopefully use to organize and hunt down a mafia member.

 

[Matunas]

Ok. So Medi you're going for a no lynch? Sure we have the chance to not lynch a townie but then what? We're stuck in the same position tomorrow. If there was some guarantee that we would find out some info tonight about who to kill then I could see that. But so far we've gained how much from anything?

No one knows what to do right now because so little information has been brought to the table. Every time I think something reading over old posts something about a later post changes my mind. It makes me question whether or not a vote on someone is the right step. This may be my new player mentality and me being unable to read between the lines on people's posts, but no one else seems to have anything on anyone either.

I enjoy playing this game but I'm frustrated right now because nothing stands out to me as a reason to act besides deadlines. My gut feeling has told me since the beginning that Xsyven is Mafia. I haven't acted on it because I haven't been able to get anything out his posts that can reinforce my instincts.

At this point in the game I think a no lynch is a horrible idea. If we don't hit a Mafia today we're in the same position tomorrow with one more townie dead. If we hit a townie today we're screwed as well. I still think we have to try and get a Mafia today or we are going to lose the game. I would love to be able to state a bunch of reasons why I think this but I'm going for it anyway, partially out of frustration, and partially because I just think I'm right. It doesn't get us a lynch right now, in fact I think it makes a three way tie but it gets my suspicion out there.

Vote: Xsyven

 

[Eor]

Vote: Mediocre

Because a no lynch now is the dumbest thing anyone could possibly possibly do, and he knows it. We have to lynch someone, because a no lynch will not help us at all. Another day, but we'd gain nothing at all. We're too close to losing to risk a no-lynch, especially since it would be out third

 

[Eor]

our third* of the game

 

[Eor]

I suggest people changing their votes to Medi, if not I might just switch my vote to Xsyven (as he's suspicious to me, more then alt), but I'd rather not.

 

[Mediocre]

Frankly guys, I'd like to be able to have time to pressure people a bit more. Look back over their posting history, and ask them why they did such and such a thing on such and such a day. I would ask for an extension, but since the deadline's already been pushed back once today I don't think that's likely.

What would we lose by having a no-lynch today? We'd lose pretty much nothing. There would still be seven players, meaning that it would still take four votes for the mafia to lynch someone. We'd have time to cull more information from players about their posts and their votes, and all we'd lose is a single townie vote.

So I really don't see how a no-lynch is a bad thing to do at this point. It hardly does any damage to the town at all, and it grants us another day to figure out who we should lynch.

At this point, a lynch is likely to be fatal to the town. A no-lynch? At worst, it could be slightly detrimental. At best, it could lead to us finding a mafioso.

I think people need to just get over their "no-lynch is bad" mentality and realize that lynching someone at random is worse.

 

[Mediocre]

Vote: Mediocre

Because a no lynch now is the dumbest thing anyone could possibly possibly do, and he knows it. We have to lynch someone, because a no lynch will not help us at all. Another day, but we'd gain nothing at all. We're too close to losing to risk a no-lynch, especially since it would be out third

Your argument here is that a no-lynch is dumb, but you don't really explain why. Then you say we won't gain anything from it, but we might. And then you say that we're too close to losing to risk a no-lynch, but that argument is more applicable to a mislynch than it is to a no-lynch.

And finally, what the hell does it being our third have to do with anything? Is there something inherently dangerous about the number three in mafia games? Just because the deadlines forced two dumb no-lynches onto us at the beginning of the game doesn't mean that having one is bad now. That's just nonsense.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Matunas and Eor to the rescue!

Unvote: Xsyven

Vote: Mediocre

I don't have time to go indepth since I'm leaving soon, but I think we can all agree that a no-lynch is malarkey! I'll gladly explain why if someone else doesn't, unless the deadline kicks in.

Speaking of which, I hope you'll extend it, Tom. We haven't been asking you directly, but right now it seems that we're all posting because of the deadline and most of the players have mentioned how good it would be to have more time, so I hope you will.

I believe that Xsyven and Medi are both mafia, but am going for Medi because if he lives another day, he has a chance to put this one away by himself due to everybody thinking that he's some kind of archetype townie.

I'm really hoping more of us'll vote Mediocre by the end of the day. We'll have our first mafia, then our second if we lynch Xsyven tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Also, if Alt could unvote me, and CK unvote Alt, that would be dandy.

Marshigio (2): AltF4, Mediocre
AltF4Warrior (2): Crimson King, Xsyven
Xsyven (1): Matunas
Mediocre(2): Marshigio, Eor

 

[Mediocre]

I don't have time to go indepth since I'm leaving soon, but I think we can all agree that a no-lynch is malarkey! I'll gladly explain why if someone else doesn't, unless the deadline kicks in.

People keep saying this, but they never manage to explain why.

 

[AltF4]

Lynching is the only time that town has the opportunity to kill a mafia. Not voting seems completely counterproductive. Mafia gets another kill and you're back to where you were before.

The real "information" in the game comes from voting records. By not voting someone off, you reduce the amount of information you have. Even voting a townie off can give you information. Those who voted for the townie are then looked at closely. That;s how the game works.

Not voting kind of defeats the purpose of the game.

 

[Mediocre]

Lynching is the only time that town has the opportunity to kill a mafia. Not voting seems completely counterproductive. Mafia gets another kill and you're back to where you were before.

The real "information" in the game comes from voting records. By not voting someone off, you reduce the amount of information you have. Even voting a townie off can give you information. Those who voted for the townie are then looked at closely. That;s how the game works.

Not voting kind of defeats the purpose of the game.

We're now in a position where a single mislynch could lose us the game. We can't risk mislynching for information anymore.

A no-lynch now, which is what it seems like is going to happen, will essentially serve as a timeout. Sure, the mafia will make some nightkill, but that won't make them win any faster.

Everyone keeps making arguments against no-lynching that would be perfectly valid earlier in the game, but make no sense given our current situation.

 

[Eor]

We're now in a position where a single mislynch could lose us the game. We can't risk mislynching for information anymore.

A no-lynch now, which is what it seems like is going to happen, will essentially serve as a timeout. Sure, the mafia will make some nightkill, but that won't make them win any faster.

Everyone keeps making arguments against no-lynching that would be perfectly valid earlier in the game, but make no sense given our current situation.

A no lynch would lose the game right now. No doubt. A mislynch might make us lose the game too, but at the moment, we are too far gone. We've gotten zero mafia, a no lynch would not help us. This is what, the third time we've had a deadline? The fifth? I don't know, but we're not active enough for a no lynch to do anything other then give the mafia a pass.

I'm keeping my vote

 

[Eor]

Your argument here is that a no-lynch is dumb, but you don't really explain why. Then you say we won't gain anything from it, but we might. And then you say that we're too close to losing to risk a no-lynch, but that argument is more applicable to a mislynch than it is to a no-lynch.

And finally, what the hell does it being our third have to do with anything? Is there something inherently dangerous about the number three in mafia games? Just because the deadlines forced two dumb no-lynches onto us at the beginning of the game doesn't mean that having one is bad now. That's just nonsense.

We can't gain anything from a no-lynch, please explain how it's possible for us to do so.

The fact that it'd be our third would mean that we've passed up killing three times, which is absolutely awful. Our only way to get the mafia is lynching, giving it up once is alright, giving it up three times is downright terrible.

And I fully explained why it would be bad.

 

[Eor]

Frankly guys, I'd like to be able to have time to pressure people a bit more. Look back over their posting history, and ask them why they did such and such a thing on such and such a day. I would ask for an extension, but since the deadline's already been pushed back once today I don't think that's likely.

We've had plenty of time for this, and this does not take time. It takes time for other people to respond, but they haven't been doing that anwyays

What would we lose by having a no-lynch today? We'd lose pretty much nothing.

We'd lose our chance at lynching a mafia player and we'd lose a townie

There would still be seven players, meaning that it would still take four votes for the mafia to lynch someone. We'd have time to cull more information from players about their posts and their votes, and all we'd lose is a single townie vote.

A single townie vote is a ****load.

So I really don't see how a no-lynch is a bad thing to do at this point. It hardly does any damage to the town at all, and it grants us another day to figure out who we should lynch.

You've had plenty of time to do it,

At this point, a lynch is likely to be fatal to the town. A no-lynch? At worst, it could be slightly detrimental. At best, it could lead to us finding a mafioso.

That's ridiculous, a no lynch cannot help us at all. You keep mentioning "it'd buy us time", but we've had plenty of time. In the time it took you to post saying we should no lynch you could of read the entire thread over multiple times and posted a ten page indepth essay on it.

I think people need to just get over their "no-lynch is bad" mentality and realize that lynching someone at random is worse.

Strawman, there is no random lynching in this.

Saying "we still have a chance" is a mafia strategy for this, we don't need optimism. We need to lynch someone. Going this far without lynching a mafia player is terrible, and we might lose if Mediocre is town. Either we take a chance to lynch a mafia member, or we do nothing and definitely die. I'd take the chance, and Medi would too, if he was town.

 

[Mediocre]

Actually Eor, you're right. We shouldn't no-lynch today.

We should no-lynch tomorrow.

http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/15574

Unvote: Marshigio
Vote: AltF4Warrior

 

[Crimson King]

Uhh... I read through this really fast and Mediocre really jumped all over the place, going back on his "firm belief" that Alt was definitely mafia. That isn't only odd but it makes no sense whatsoever. When he was confronted about this, he jumps back to the safe vote - AltF4. My problem with this is Mediocre really redeemed himself in my eyes earlier when he was so adamant about protecting Marc, I think(!). Ugh... voting for him would make me really look like a flip-flopper, but in light of all that happened on this page, it's hard for me to side with him at all. The next issue - Eor is mafia. Then, I am ****ed because I got rid of one of the more active townies.

**** it. We pretty much HAVE to take out a mafia today, or the game is over, and Mediocre seems the safest bet. Sorry if I am wrong.

Unvote: AltF4Warrior
Vote: Mediocre

 

[Eor]

I found Mediocre's flipflop as an attempt to play on the self doubts I've been having this entire game

 

[Xsyven]

Can we get a count pls?

 

[Mediocre]

Uhh... I read through this really fast and Mediocre really jumped all over the place, going back on his "firm belief" that Alt was definitely mafia. That isn't only odd but it makes no sense whatsoever. When he was confronted about this, he jumps back to the safe vote - AltF4. My problem with this is Mediocre really redeemed himself in my eyes earlier when he was so adamant about protecting Marc, I think(!). Ugh... voting for him would make me really look like a flip-flopper, but in light of all that happened on this page, it's hard for me to side with him at all. The next issue - Eor is mafia. Then, I am ****ed because I got rid of one of the more active townies.

**** it. We pretty much HAVE to take out a mafia today, or the game is over, and Mediocre seems the safest bet. Sorry if I am wrong.

Unvote: AltF4Warrior
Vote: Mediocre

I flipflopped on what order I wanted to do things in, not what I thought that we needed to do.

Someone please explain, specifically, how my actions would benefit the mafia? So far, I've seen a lot of people say that they would, but I have yet to see anyone actually explain how.

 

[Crimson King]

You wanted us to go No Lynch on Day 5. We haven't gotten a single Mafioso, and no lynch means we are as good as dead.

Eight people left in the game. Going no lynch just gives the mafia one more kill on us and making the next round even easier to sway in their favor then ending it in the next night phase. Realistically, we could all be wrong with whom we are voting; however, if we take the chance, and we are right, we have a chance to win this.

It really threw me off how you would even attempt to deliberately tie up the votes especially going after Mashy.

 

[Eor]

I flipflopped on what order I wanted to do things in, not what I thought that we needed to do.

Someone please explain, specifically, how my actions would benefit the mafia? So far, I've seen a lot of people say that they would, but I have yet to see anyone actually explain how.

Then you haven't been reading my posts, as I've mentioned constantly that it would be removing one of our few chances to lynch a mafia player that we have left

 

[Tom]

Vote Count
Mediocre (3): Eor, Marshigio, CK
AltF4 (2): Xsyven, Mediocre
Xsyven (1): Matunas
Marshigio (1): AltF4
Not Voting (1): Yeroc

The deadline has passed. 1 player (Marshigio) asked for a deadline extension, and 1 player flirted with the idea (Mediocre), and there has already been one deadline extension, and there is a plurality with only 1 person (Yeroc) not voting. So I'm going to end the day.

Day 5 ends!

You all sit in a circle, toying with musical instruments and making accusations. The remains of the shattered glass have been swept away by the music teacher as you all spent the class passing the instruments around. Suddenly, the PA system dings:

"Mediocre, would you please come to the principals office. You are no longer enrolled in BRoomer High."

"....sigh...."

Mediocre pulls out a plastic bag full of marijuana, rolls a blunt, borrows a light off of the goth kid, and takes a nice, long breath. He seems to have dropped his guard, and in a friendly fashion he passes the weed around the circle.

"Its been fun." he states as he grabs his stuff and prepares to report to the principal. "It was just a job, you know. If I didn't work for them, they would have taken my stash."

He grabs his bag and walks out the door before the bell rings, wishing luck to the mafia.

"Time to go find Scav."

Mediocre (the stoner), Mafia role-blocker, has been lynched!

Night 5 begins!

Night actions are due by Monday 12 noon EST.

 

[Mic_128]

*Completely decomposes, returns as ghost*

WhooooOOOoooooOOOOoooo

 

[Tom]

As a handful of you walk into Workshop class early, you notice Eor flirting with the principal.

"How did someone like you become the principal of an entire school?"

"Uh... hard work."

"So, like... is your job really, really hard?"

"Sometimes there are certain students who make my job hard."

"Do I make your job hard, Mr. Principal?" she tugs at his pockets.

The Principal begins playing with Eor's blouse before he realizes that other students have begun to walk into the room. He panics, shouts, "NOTHING TO SEE HERE, I DONT WANT TO LOSE MY JOB, OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD," grabs Eor's head, slams her face into a drill, and runs away.

As the bell rings, you all look over Eor's fragile body. She is dead. Hot, but dead.

Eor, the slut (vanilla townie), has died a bloody death.

Day 6 begins!
A deadline has been set for Sunday, November 16th, Noon EST.
With six alive, it takes three to lynch. [3/6]

 

[Scav]

I didn't realize Eor and I were so similar. Since I'm the teacher's pet, that means we both do a lot of sucking up.

(Get it?????????1)

 

[AltF4]

Well done, gents.

We got another mafia out. There should only be, what, one or two left?

I would also like to take the time to point out that Mediocre voted for me. That sure would be a stupid move for a mafia to vote for a mafia so late in the game, if you catch my drift.


Xsyven, however... I'm really not sure what to make of him. He also voted for me alongside Mediocre... But he was first to vote for me, wasn't he? If so, I doubt he's mafia. I think the mafia is going to try to piggyback votes at this point.

They'll wait for someone to have one or two votes and then jump on it to push it over the edge. That does give Xsyven some credibility in that respect.