Hero is Banned in South Australian Tournaments

South Australia Smash Central has officially banned Hero from their Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tournaments.

Hero has garnered a lot of controversy ever since his moveset was first revealed on July 30th, 2019. Much of the disdain for Hero comes from his down special, Command Selection, and his unique ability to get critical hits on his smash attacks, both of which introduce a large number of random elements. There are people who feel this delegitimizes competition because it puts too much emphasis on luck. However, it can also be argued that these random elements bring strategic depth to Hero and aren’t inherently anti-competitive. Many players also feel a character should be proven to be extremely dominant before we even consider banning them.

Either way, South Australia Smash Central has made the decision to ban the character. You can read their full reasoning for the ban right here: https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqvsvl

Some additional points since this got a bit more attention than expected

- The ban is indefinite and not unilateral. Will the game get patched? Will other scenes follow suit? We'll look at Hero's results in a month or two and decide again. https://t.co/ZY5XotfBPP

— CouchWarriors South Australia (@CouchWarriorsSA) August 15, 2019

Author’s Note: Personally, I think it's way too early to ban Hero, I don't believe the RNG is a dealbreaker and I'd like to see how he develops in the meta before taking any stances on whether he should be buffed, nerfed, banned, whatever. What do you think of this though? Please let us know in the comments below!

 

Hero is not that strong and banning him is ****ing stupid. His Normals are so slow, and his recovery so terrible, he actually gets beaten out by a number of characters pretty bad. Not only that, but some of his hard counters are lower tier characters like Zelda, which great for the scene overall.

You probably mean mid-tier.

Also, I accidentally hit submit, I think this ban is rather stupid.
The explanation isn't that basic but there is no real background or did something happen in Australia with Joker?

 

Australia is a bunch of **** :/

 

Random crits are fair and balanced

 

I mean we stomached S4 Bayo which warped the meta of S4 (there definitely was talent behind Bayo players but you can't argue that there was a tremendous amount of power behind S4 Bayo to boot).

Which is absolutely baffling to me. I thought the argument for banning something wasn't because it was merely OP or somehow "anti-competitive", but because it was overcentralizing. Items are banned because the game would focus almost entirely around them, due to their absurd power and random spawning. Most stages have overcentralizing elements to some degree (even if it's as simple as a platform being 2 inches closer to the blast zone than it should be, which would encourage camping), which is why the stage lists are so small.

More importantly, Brawl Meta Knight and Smash 4 Bayo dominated their respective scenes so hard that the metas began to revolve almost exclusively around them (Brawl's tier list was heavily based on the MK matchup, and "Just SDI" became a meme for very good reason). Besides maybe Magic Burst and (T)whack, which still need to be rolled in the menu, Hero simply doesn't have the consistency or power to become a central force at anywhere near the same level.

 

The ONLY legitimate argument I saw on that post in favour of a ban was that the Down B menu is language specific and could put international competitors at a disadvantage when playing in other regions.

Every other argument requires actual results. To ban the character now without data is, quite frankly, stupid.

 

This is like banning Phoenix Wright in UMVC3 because in theory he can enter turnabout mode in 10 seconds with good RNG and win the match. Ignoring his terrible frame data, lack of wake up options, and unreliable set ups. I see a ton of similarities between the two characters, and Wright never worked well outside of being a fun gimmick character. I think the same will happen to Hero.

 

I miss the days where people would try and learn a match up instead going to bans or nerfs.

Patch culture these days.

There are cases like meta knight or cloud in s4 doubles but here? I’d hate to see what people think of crits in some mobas or dr Faust in guilty gear. Some games have RNG, that’s the nature of them.

I get the hate for all RNG even in cases like Peach and Game n Watch but the want to ban over trying to learn I find to be a weak mindset. You don’t develop or improve If you do this as a player.


“Weakings the bunch of you”

Prove him writing by learning and beating him.

Items and metaknight made sense, this doesn’t in my eyes.

 

Let the results speak first before implementing any major decisions. My buddy picked up Hero and while at first he was a bit of a pain to deal with since I wasn't used to his kit. Over time you learn to react to how he plays. When he opens his menu you don't just go in guns blazing cuz your asking for a Flame Sword to the face. Approaching from the air to avoid getting hit by projectiles and keeping your distance when stronger options like Magic Burst and Twhack show up. Possibly throwing projectiles to harrass him when he's got the menu open.

As a Link player sometimes abilities like Bounce can be a pain but you simply adjust to using cqc and grabs until its timer runs out.

There's obvious counterplay to his matchup and I don't find his randomness to be much of a detriment down the road. I do agree that some of the RNG needs to be toned down. And his neutral B is ridiculous compared to characters like Samus who's charges over more time and isn't as strong as Hero's fire.

 

As a Palutena main, Hero is easier to beat if you play aggressively. I usually start the match with Explosive Flame and Nair. This gives him less time to select a command from his down-b, as well as leaving him vulnerable. His neutrals also come out more slowly than other swordfighters. Banning him this quickly just because he's random, as well as ignoring results is pretty stupid in my honest opinion.

Edit: thanks for blowing up my inbox

I main Samus/Dark Samus, so my encounters against Hero have been easy. Kafrizz, for example, is stopped by Samus'/Dark Samus' super missile or partially-charged charge shot. Shielding helps, too. If Hero charges his neutral special, but uses too much magic to the point that he has less than 36 MP, he can't even use Kafrizz. Nothing will come out. Side special, when being fully charged, is telegraphed. Uncharged, it has good range and packs a punch. I believe 25% damage. The thing about Hero is that if you're going to use him properly, you shouldn't be using everything in Command Selection. This is something I've considered when examining him on the day of his release.

There are only a few things in Command Selection to use, such as Heal. That can only be used twice per stock. Bounce is useful against projectiles, and lasts for about 12 seconds. It's completely unnecessary if your opponent doesn't use projectiles, however. With Bounce active, some throws that use projectiles like Mewtwo's forward throw will hit Mewtwo instead, freeing Hero from the grab. The same applies to Falco's back throw and up throw. Down throw won't be prevented, likely due to the few frames of invincibility that comes from throwing. Oomph is better than Psyche Up, since you can hit your opponent more than once and deal extra damage.

Magic Burst's blast radius is dependent on the amount of MP Hero has. Less MP means a weaker Magic Burst. If you're a projectile user, you can hit Hero out of the attack, stopping the attack while causing Hero to only have 1 MP. Throw him off the stage if you can because Kaswoosh requires magic. I've actually defeated Hero players because I dropped bombs on them. They'd take the damage and run out of magic, resulting in their death. Snooze can be shielded, reflected, or absorbed. Hocus Pocus has more cons than pros, making it risky. Use it if you're desperate. That desperation could result in Kamikazee (sic) or growing big. (Items needn't be on. See Peach's/Daisy's Vegetable.)

I have an easier time dealing with Hero, but my brother, who mains Ness, doesn't seem to have it easy. It can be frustrating at times dealing with Hero if he's just standing idly. But be warned, Hero mains. Just like Link, Young Link, and Toon Link, I can land a headshot on you with a full charge shot. Don't think you're safe from that. Z-air ignores that shield, too. In my experience, Hero players who activate Bounce will suddenly become brave (or unwise) because my projectiles can't do anything to them. Don't be unwise, though. Z-air still ignores Bounce and I can pack a mean combo. Samus'/Dark Samus' CQC may not be great, but you still need to play smart.

 

1st part is a lol and you missed my point completely
zoom is random. you go for the edgeguard/ledgetrap because statistically you should, then he RANDOMLY gets to the middle for free. its not that the recovery is too good, its that its RANDOM.

I feel your point, I just do not agree with it and honestly to each their own on that! I don't mean any disrespect, just interesting to hear each others' thoughts on the matter. Let me try to explain why I do not believe the randomness in Hero's recovery is a problem.

First, I do not think that the game owes the plays a statistically sound way to edgeguard or ledge trap each other character, which is why I have no issues with Hero being able to up-b back to stage, or sometimes have access to Zoom instead. I also do not believe that the recovery is for free; there is a real risk to using Command Menu offstage from being sniped with a projectile while you're unable to move to not having a double jump and no way to cancel out of the menu without dodge, often to your death. To make it more sound the player using Hero at a high percentage, knowing that they are playing against a character that favors edge guarding rather than raw kill power (e.g. Lucina) would want to pull up their menu a few times after seeing a Zoom in it, so that they is a chance they have access to it should they get put off stage, and that takes skill and planning.

Finally, I really do think that it is still telegraphed enough of a recovery for other players to adapt; we can see when hero pulls out the menu, and they would need to do so very quickly after
being knocked off stage in order to have a chance of finding what they want in time. This can be reacted to since we know they are going for zoom and that that will have them coming from above, which we can try to juggle or catch the landing. If the don't pull out menu quickly then they will have to go for up-b as their only option, and again we have this information rapidly enough that many characters will be able to react to the opening or non-opening of menu. To be clear I don't mean to say that Hero won't sometimes get back to the stage from way way down with a Hail Mary zoom, I just don't think that that is an unacceptable mechanic for some of the time. I think of it like Joker and Palu's counter/reflector moves; I don't particularly like being on the receiving end of them as it feels like a single move is invalidating a lot of characters who don't have fast, decent grabs, but it hasn't broken the metagame clock and in a fighting game I think that there will always be moves other characters have that we do not like, since they're frustrating games by name.

Those are all my thoughts. No disrespect to your point of view, I don't think either of us could be provably correct anyway!

Cheers

 

If Hero never had an arbitrary gimmick slapped onto him there wouldn't be such a controversy around him. I honestly hope Sakurai is aware of this and pulls the reigns back in on gimmicks.

Not like Hero couldn't have been bull**** in other ways since his fireball is apparently a doriyah in projectile form. Square tends to make sure their stuff is overpowered in crossover games if Smash 4's Cloud and Monster Hunter World's Drachen Armor is anything to go by.

 

If Hero never had an arbitrary gimmick slapped onto him there wouldn't be such a controversy around him. I honestly hope Sakurai is aware of this and pulls the reigns back in on gimmicks.

Not like Hero couldn't have been bull**** in other ways since his fireball is apparently a doriyah in projectile form. Square tends to make sure their stuff is overpowered in crossover games if Smash 4's Cloud and Monster Hunter World's Drachen Armor is anything to go by.

I'd blame Sakurai.

"Sakurai: I felt a lot of new players would want to try [Cloud] out, so I made him a little easier to use. Of course, if he did lose his charge after taking damage, that would allow us to make other changes instead. For example, if we made it harder to fill the Limit Gauge, we could make his Special Moves even stronger to compensate. Balancing in extremes makes for a much more exciting game." (italics mine) - Nintendo Dream Interview with Sakurai: Part 2 - Source Gaming

Never mind the fact that Sakurai even said before this, "The biggest problem was that Cloud is simply too strong. He boasts long reach, plenty of power, and considerable speed. With all those strengths, he’s the perfect fighter." So he knows, he just doesn't seem to care because of his "balancing" mentality. Consider that if Limit Charge was more difficult to fill, Cloud's other special move could (and probably would) be "even stronger". I think some would poke fun at Cloud mains from SSB4 by saying, "See, Cloud is brain-dead. Sakurai just admitted the character is 'a little easier to use.'"

 

View attachment 234759

South Australia Smash Central has officially banned Hero from their Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tournaments.

Hero has garnered a lot of controversy ever since his moveset was first revealed on July 30th, 2019. Much of the disdain for Hero comes from his down special, Command Selection, and his unique ability to get critical hits on his smash attacks, both of which introduce a large number of random elements. There are people who feel this delegitimizes competition because it puts too much emphasis on luck. However, it can also be argued that these random elements bring strategic depth to Hero and aren’t inherently anti-competitive. Many players also feel a character should be proven to be extremely dominant before we even consider banning them.

Either way, South Australia Smash Central has made the decision to ban the character. You can read their full reasoning for the ban right here: https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqvsvl

Some additional points since this got a bit more attention than expected

- The ban is indefinite and not unilateral. Will the game get patched? Will other scenes follow suit? We'll look at Hero's results in a month or two and decide again. https://t.co/ZY5XotfBPP

— CouchWarriors South Australia (@CouchWarriorsSA) August 15, 2019

Author’s Note: Personally, I think it's way too early to ban Hero, I don't believe the RNG is a dealbreaker and I'd like to see how he develops in the meta before taking any stances on whether he should be buffed, nerfed, banned, whatever. What do you think of this though? Please let us know in the comments below!

Honestly saw it coming a mile away

 

Its like complaining about getting hit by Villagers tree...because you run right on Villagers tree and dont dodge or shield.[/QUOTE
Lol

 

Ban the character with no results. Very smart.

 

What's wrong with lower level players specifically reaching for RNG as a crutch in competitive play? Forcing everyone into the same line of progression of playing the game "the right/competitive way" is elitist to the extreme.

 

What's wrong with lower level players specifically reaching for RNG as a crutch in competitive play? Forcing everyone into the same line of progression of playing the game "the right/competitive way" is elitist to the extreme.

The worst part is that lower level players 'reaching' for RNG with Hero aren't really going to do all that much better than if they played any other character. Hero is only 'good' in free for all (or possibly doubles) where he can sometimes get away with throwing out dumb moves. I genuinely feel that only the most casual of casuals should have any real issue with Hero's mechanics. Competitive players should be better than this. Just playing this character once with another competitive player is the only showcase they need to realize how difficult this character is going to be at a high level.

 

Mod Notice

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This is good from an experimental standpoint because now we can compare the 2 groups (ban and no ban). Not that it will make much difference imo. Hero doesn't seem especially relevant to the metagame.

 

As of now, I CAN see the validity in the arguments on both sides; whether he should be banned or not. Having seen Hero in action mineself, I CAN see how the randomisation can get annoying--for both the opponent and the player using him. That said, I've thought of a patch idea.

In Smash 3, Olimar's Pikmin were picked at random. But in Smash 4 & Ultimate, he picks them in a fixed order. Same case with Princess Toadstool: before, her golf club, frying pan, and tennis racket came out randomly--but now, they come out in a fixed order.

If Hero gets nerfed, I hope they don't take it to the extreme like they did with Bayonetta. What I would personally would like to see is an option to disable the randomisation in Hero's moveset; similar to how players can disable items with Item Switch. Said option could (1) turn off critical hits, and (2) have Hero's down-special list constant instead of random. For example, instead of getting random moves, Hero will always get the same list of moves in the same order. As a price, though, he can only use four certain commands instead of all 21. The four I think would be perfect are: Snooze, Bounce, Kacrackle Slash, and Hatchet Man. All four are fairly tactical moves that don't give Hero an unfair advantage.

What say you lot?

 

I'd blame Sakurai.

"Sakurai: I felt a lot of new players would want to try [Cloud] out, so I made him a little easier to use. Of course, if he did lose his charge after taking damage, that would allow us to make other changes instead. For example, if we made it harder to fill the Limit Gauge, we could make his Special Moves even stronger to compensate. Balancing in extremes makes for a much more exciting game." (italics mine) - Nintendo Dream Interview with Sakurai: Part 2 - Source Gaming

Never mind the fact that Sakurai even said before this, "The biggest problem was that Cloud is simply too strong. He boasts long reach, plenty of power, and considerable speed. With all those strengths, he’s the perfect fighter." So he knows, he just doesn't seem to care because of his "balancing" mentality. Consider that if Limit Charge was more difficult to fill, Cloud's other special move could (and probably would) be "even stronger". I think some would poke fun at Cloud mains from SSB4 by saying, "See, Cloud is brain-dead. Sakurai just admitted the character is 'a little easier to use.'"

Yeah it was pretty funny watching people actually try and defend Cloud's unga bunga self back in Smash 4.

One thing I especially never liked about these characters with "gimmick meters" is that they always have multiple ways of building them up. Charging it up themselves, attacking, and (the one I really take issue with) getting hit. Why should you ever be rewarded for getting outplayed?

 

Yeah it was pretty funny watching people actually try and defend Cloud's unga bunga self back in Smash 4.

One thing I especially never liked about these characters with "gimmick meters" is that they always have multiple ways of building them up. Charging it up themselves, attacking, and (the one I really take issue with) getting hit. Why should you ever be rewarded for getting outplayed?

Most games that have special meters of any sort charge even when you get damaged. 'Come back' meters, so to speak. Street Fighter has it as do so many other fighters these days. Smash just gives such meters to select characters if it fits their theme.

 

Love how people are reacting as if South Australia was the entirety of the Smash community with their hot takes. Christ almighty, none of you are ever going to compete there and the people who DO compete there agreed on the decision. Imagine trashing every single Pokemon fan because Smogon banned a single Pokemon from a single ruleset.

 

zoom is random. you go for the edgeguard/ledgetrap because statistically you should, then he RANDOMLY gets to the middle for free. its not that the recovery is too good, its that its RANDOM.

Okay. So what? If you already admitted it isn't too good, therefore not overcentralizing, then it's fine.

the results part isnt relevant because they arent banning him for being good, so why does he need results to prove hes too good.

Maybe because banning a character for any other reason than them actually being too good is an idiotic prospect. It shows to us that not only do they not want to actually adapt like actual competitive players do in plenty of other games with RNG in them (Dota is the biggest example on offer), but it also shows how they don't actually know what anti-competitive even means or is and thus make the rest of the Smash community look just a little bit worse.

 

There goes my hero
Watch him as he goes

 

Okay. So what? If you already admitted it isn't too good, therefore not overcentralizing, then it's fine.



Maybe because banning a character for any other reason than them actually being too good is an idiotic prospect. It shows to us that not only do they not want to actually adapt like actual competitive players do in plenty of other games with RNG in them (Dota is the biggest example on offer), but it also shows how they don't actually know what anti-competitive even means or is and thus make the rest of the Smash community look just a little bit worse.

Ok, I may have written here something that's not really in favor of the ban but I've to ask: How do you adapt to randomness?
"Just don't get hit" doesn't count.

 

Ok, I may have written here something that's not really in favor of the ban but I've to ask: How do you adapt to randomness?
"Just don't get hit" doesn't count.

Look at what Hero has available and plan accordingly based on each individual move as well as the likelihood he will use that particular move in that particular menu. At that point, you are simply reading your enemy's actions before they do them, something that fighting games have always been about.

As for critical hits on his smash attacks... I don't like the don't get hit argument either, but they're smash attacks. If you get hit by them in neutral (the only time critical hits will really really matter), then you yourself were doing something wrong.

 

Look at what Hero has available and plan accordingly based on each individual move as well as the likelihood he will use that particular move in that particular menu. At that point, you are simply reading your enemy's actions before they do them, something that fighting games have always been about.

As for critical hits on his smash attacks... I don't like the don't get hit argument either, but they're smash attacks. If you get hit by them in neutral (the only time critical hits will really really matter), then you yourself were doing something wrong.

Except you can't read all four commands and make a decision because the menu is part of your peripheral vision which slows your reaction time down, plus some players with dyslexia will have difficulty reading, but even if you read all four commands in a quick time, Hero can choose not to use any command, and can shield cancel or jump.

 

Except you can't read all four commands and make a decision because the menu is part of your peripheral vision which slows your reaction time down, plus some players with dyslexia will have difficulty reading, but even if you read all four commands in a quick time, Hero can choose not to use any command, and can shield cancel or jump.

True, true. Except those problems are also present for the Hero player, but they have to commit to the menu even if for a little bit.

 

Look at what Hero has available and plan accordingly based on each individual move as well as the likelihood he will use that particular move in that particular menu. At that point, you are simply reading your enemy's actions before they do them, something that fighting games have always been about.

As for critical hits on his smash attacks... I don't like the don't get hit argument either, but they're smash attacks. If you get hit by them in neutral (the only time critical hits will really really matter), then you yourself were doing something wrong.

And what if you can't read what is available? The speells are different in every language.
Also does it matter if you can read it if certain things are just item-effects? That makes each game against Hero not really reproducable since all of his gameplan relies on downB, otherwise he's just an awful character, especially against every reflect character. The other characters that have RNG elements don't rely as much on these move as Hero. They also don't have a cheap move out of disadvantage with Zoom or something like Magic Burst. The possibility he can or can't have these is what they consider anti-competitive.

And you can jump into every character's smash attack. But Hero has a property that is random and only apply to his.
It's like trying to avoid Marth's fSmash but he doesn't have a crit but a tipper hitbox that, let's say, equals a crit. That's much more reliable to play against.

 

And what if you can't read what is available? The speells are different in every language.

See, this is the only actual argument I've seen, and it is a problem. A problem that can be fixed via patching in symbols for each move or something along those lines.

Also does it matter if you can read it if certain things are just item-effects?

Again, so what? We don't ban items because of their effects. We ban them because of their overcentralizing nature as well as their random spawns. Believe it or not, not all RNG is created equal.

That makes each game against Hero not really reproducable since all of his gameplan relies on downB, otherwise he's just an awful character, especially against every reflect character.

Are you arguing in favor of banning him or not? Because what you described just sounds like a bad fighter, and thus, they shouldn't be banned because we don't ban things for being bad.

The other characters that have RNG elements don't rely as much on these move as Hero. They also don't have a cheap move out of disadvantage with Zoom or something like Magic Burst. The possibility he can or can't have these is what they consider anti-competitive.

I'm pretty sure the actual problem is those specific moves are too strong (I don't think Zoom is), not that they are tied to randomness. In which case, cause a stir to get the Smash team to balance it, but banning is still not the answer.

And you can jump into every character's smash attack. But Hero has a property that is random and only apply to his.
It's like trying to avoid Marth's fSmash but he doesn't have a crit but a tipper hitbox that, let's say, equals a crit. That's much more reliable to play against.

The point I was making is that it's a smash attack, and thus, not going to be used often. Now do I feel the crit's bonus is too strong? A bit. But it isn't worthy of causing a ban, because what is or isn't banned should not be based on the individual whims of players, but by actual hard evidence.

 

See, this is the only actual argument I've seen, and it is a problem. A problem that can be fixed via patching in symbols for each move or something along those lines.




Again, so what? We don't ban items because of their effects. We ban them because of their overcentralizing nature as well as their random spawns. Believe it or not, not all RNG is created equal.



Are you arguing in favor of banning him or not? Because what you described just sounds like a bad fighter, and thus, they shouldn't be banned because we don't ban things for being bad.



I'm pretty sure the actual problem is those specific moves are too strong (I don't think Zoom is), not that they are tied to randomness. In which case, cause a stir to get the Smash team to balance it, but banning is still not the answer.



The point I was making is that it's a smash attack, and thus, not going to be used often. Now do I feel the crit's bonus is too strong? A bit. But it isn't worthy of causing a ban, because what is or isn't banned should not be based on the individual whims of players, but by actual hard evidence.

He gets banned because of his nature of being anti-competitive. Whether he is good per se or not doesn't play into this in all. He's not really good but he needs his RNG elements to be good.
Also I wasn't talking about item effects only but the effects you get from Hocus Pocus are random as well. It can hurt you or you get something super good. Does this sound like something that has place in competitive play? Probably not.

And my point I make about Smash attacks isn't about getting hit but once again: Reproducibility.
Getting hit by Marth's tipper at 50% will always result in the same scenario. Knockback is always the same. The only thing that's different is the opponents DI.
Getting hit by Hero's Smash attacks don't always result in the same knockback.
You may get hit by it but you can't know if you die by doing this mistake or not. If you get hit by Marth you know that you survive or not depending on your position.

There aren't any good players that use him, so we can't get data which is the only reason why I'm against a ban for now but on paper this character doesn't seem to have a place in comp. play.

 

He gets banned because of his nature of being anti-competitive.

What does that even mean?

Whether he is good per se or not doesn't play into this in all. He's not really good but he needs his RNG elements to be good.

That has yet to be seen, considering how little time he's been released.

Also I wasn't talking about item effects only but the effects you get from Hocus Pocus are random as well. It can hurt you or you get something super good. Does this sound like something that has place in competitive play?

Yes. Because it's within the framework of a competitive game.

And my point I make about Smash attacks isn't about getting hit but once again: Reproducibility.
Getting hit by Marth's tipper at 50% will always result in the same scenario. Knockback is always the same. The only thing that's different is the opponents DI.
Getting hit by Hero's Smash attacks don't always result in the same knockback.

Okay... so what? You are once again showing the unreliability, and thus weakness, of the character as a whole, and we do not ban bad characters for being bad.

You may get hit by it but you can't know if you die by doing this mistake or not. If you get hit by Marth you know that you survive or not depending on your position.

It's something you always have to keep in mind I guess, but again, it's a smash attack, its only purpose is to kill things, so always use survival DI.

 

thus make the rest of the Smash community look just a little bit worse.

I doubt that one particular scene banning a gimmicky slot machine makes the community look any worse than the final Smash 4 tourney, throwing crabs at people, all this drama with some of the players, and refusing to take a shower.

The Smash community is already bottom of the barrel.

 

And my point I make about Smash attacks isn't about getting hit but once again: Reproducibility.
Getting hit by Marth's tipper at 50% will always result in the same scenario. Knockback is always the same. The only thing that's different is the opponents DI.
Getting hit by Hero's Smash attacks don't always result in the same knockback.

Competitive != Reproducible. Everyone brings up Poker as an obvious counterexample, but most trading card games (MtG, Yugioh, Pokemon TCG, Hearthstone...) are successfully played competitively, despite being the literal opposite of reproducible (your entire moveset is effectively randomized and changes randomly throughout the match, even if you can stack the deck with favorable cards), and other esports have random effects everywhere, to varying degrees.

That said, while Hero's overall delta of randomness is obviously much higher than anyone else in Smash, even his RNG has some consistent threads. To avoid repeating earlier points, the more powerful spells show up less often, spells of the same type (e.g. Sizz and Sizzle) can't appear simultaneously, a spell cannot appear twice in a row, and Zoom in particular shows up more frequently when close to the blast line where it would be most useful; the fact that you have four spells to choose from means that Hero usually has at least one decent option at any given try, and helps to temper the randomness a bit. On the other hand, the attack spells can usually be avoided by similar means (all of the projectiles fly straight horizontally, the slashes have comparably little vertical range, and even (T)whack can be blocked or dodged to avoid the instant KO), and the buff spells aren't anything out of the ordinary at this point ().

If the effects themselves are OP, then that's a whole other issue, but Magic Burst is the only one that's really problematic, and even that has to be cast at high MP to be worthwhile AND leaves him crippled with no MP left. Hocus Pocus may be RNG: the spell, but its negative effects are so prominent that it's basically never worth the risk: need I state that one of its effects is casting Kamikazee?

As for criticals, yeah they're harder to defend, but they're at least more consistent than Green Missile or Judge ever were. At least with Hero, you know the smash attack is going to be painful, whether it crits or not. He can't really combo into any of them either, so he just has to throw them out raw, which is rarely a good idea.

 

I think Hero needs some rework. I think his random critical hit smash attacks are fine. The only thing I believe needs to be fixed is his spells, but I don’t believe they should take any away. I think the Hero should get four random spells at the beginning of the match and those spells are the only ones he can use for the entire match, and once you use a spell it’s on cool down. Or if you want to make it a little bit more random, Hero can get a new set of spells every stock but those are the only spells he can use for that stock.

Hocus Pocus should be a random hero spell and not random item effects. This would keep some of the current rng the hero has without it being to crazy, in my opinion.

Also, the spells should cost more MP.

 

While I like Hero, I do think some tweaks to make Command Menu easier to use would also make it easier to play against; at that point you would be able to download the opponent's habits, know what move they're likely to go for and react accordingly. I like the variety of moves, and the strength to cost of them currently. My suggestion would be that Command Menu also show the same sets of 4 moves, and that the user can cycle through menus without canceling, and that the most powerful moves be in the furthest menus. That way getting a powerful move would take time - if you have the time you likely try to go for what you think is best, and the opponent will see your habits emerge too. Just my two cents!

 

If Hero never had an arbitrary gimmick slapped onto him there wouldn't be such a controversy around him. I honestly hope Sakurai is aware of this and pulls the reigns back in on gimmicks.

Not like Hero couldn't have been bull**** in other ways since his fireball is apparently a doriyah in projectile form. Square tends to make sure their stuff is overpowered in crossover games if Smash 4's Cloud and Monster Hunter World's Drachen Armor is anything to go by.

It's not arbitrary, it's an homage to his home series. The command selection works exactly like it does in Dragon Quest, something that you would know if you played those games. Smash also isn't completely tailored to the competitive scene, and tournament play shouldn't always be the main factor when deciding a character moveset, so there really isn't any point to resort to hindsight wisdom. Games like Street Fighter V and Marvel vs Capcom Infinite were catered towards the competitive crowd and the games ended up suffering in gameplay, presentation and content.

 

As mentioned by ZeRo, I believe that the biggest issue concerning Hero is not his RNG elements, but rather the language barrier he presents. I am referring to the fact that his down special requires the players to read the option that will be selected. This gives the player who has selected Hero a significant advantage against players who do not speak the same language. There is already evidence of such language barriers affecting how tournaments are run. For example, as also mentioned by ZeRo, Zackray, a talented player from Japan, saw trouble playing against Heros in the doubles bracket, because he could not read the English options on screen. In short, players should not have to learn an extra language so that they won't have to add even more RNG of guessing moves when fighting Hero. My suggestion is that tournaments should stop players from changing the language on the setups, and instead the TO should set them all to whatever language is native of the region.

TL:DR- Hero players are switching the languages when the are playing in bracket, which makes it unfair for their opponents who don't speak that language. We should have TOs stop players from changing the language so that Hero players don't get an unfair advantage.

Additionally, I would like to state that I am not 100% for the banning of Hero, but as he is now, he is unbalanced and inconsistent, and I would like to see a patch maybe change the character before we outright ban him from tournaments.

Link to ZeRo's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cXQ1d2HJ44

 

Yeah it was pretty funny watching people actually try and defend Cloud's unga bunga self back in Smash 4.

One thing I especially never liked about these characters with "gimmick meters" is that they always have multiple ways of building them up. Charging it up themselves, attacking, and (the one I really take issue with) getting hit. Why should you ever be rewarded for getting outplayed?

Seriously. Did you know that Villager/Isabelle has intangibility if he/she misses when using Pocket? There have been a number of times I've gone for a grab and missed. The same is with Zelda's Nayru's Love. It doesn't help that this move has a big hitbox and reflects projectiles. Once again, these three are also examples of making mistakes and being rewarded for them.

As mentioned by ZeRo,

Name-dropping is a form of flattery, but not worth considering in an argument, debate, or discussion.

I believe that the biggest issue concerning Hero is not his RNG elements, but rather the language barrier he presents. I am referring to the fact that his down special requires the players to read the option that will be selected. This gives the player who has selected Hero a significant advantage against players who do not speak the same language. There is already evidence of such language barriers affecting how tournaments are run. For example, as also mentioned by ZeRo, Zackray, a talented player from Japan, saw trouble playing against Heros in the doubles bracket, because he could not read the English options on screen. In short, players should not have to learn an extra language so that they won't have to add even more RNG of guessing moves when fighting Hero. My suggestion is that tournaments should stop players from changing the language on the setups, and instead the TO should set them all to whatever language is native of the region.

It certainly seems like you've already come up with a solution. One needn't learn how to speak another language to understand what a list of words say in Command Selection. Anyone who has watched sets from other locations like Mexico, Europe, or Japan might hear commentators say the English variant, such as "tech", "spike", or "x-air", or "x-aerial", "DI", or whatever. Players can either take the time to learn what is said in Command Selection, or be apathetic or lazy about it. I don't see how significant this is to warrant concern.

Additionally, I would like to state that I am not 100% for the banning of Hero, but as he is now, he is unbalanced and inconsistent, and I would like to see a patch maybe change the character before we outright ban him from tournaments.

Meta Knight wasn't balanced. Bayonetta could be argued to be somewhat not balanced. Hero isn't taking tournaments by storm.