Hero is Banned in South Australian Tournaments

South Australia Smash Central has officially banned Hero from their Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tournaments.

Hero has garnered a lot of controversy ever since his moveset was first revealed on July 30th, 2019. Much of the disdain for Hero comes from his down special, Command Selection, and his unique ability to get critical hits on his smash attacks, both of which introduce a large number of random elements. There are people who feel this delegitimizes competition because it puts too much emphasis on luck. However, it can also be argued that these random elements bring strategic depth to Hero and aren’t inherently anti-competitive. Many players also feel a character should be proven to be extremely dominant before we even consider banning them.

Either way, South Australia Smash Central has made the decision to ban the character. You can read their full reasoning for the ban right here: https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqvsvl

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Author’s Note: Personally, I think it's way too early to ban Hero, I don't believe the RNG is a dealbreaker and I'd like to see how he develops in the meta before taking any stances on whether he should be buffed, nerfed, banned, whatever. What do you think of this though? Please let us know in the comments below!

 

Wouldn't it be more healthy and productive to not ban Hero entirely but rather the down B, the center of this controversy? If we're to list the key points on why the South Australian community banned him can be boiled down to four points as pointed out by many top players.

1) Critical hit Smashes = It's not like he has a combo route that guarantees a hit with his Smash attacks. Most likely you're getting hit because your opponent read you correctly. Also it's kinda comparable to Marth's smashes since that's on par with how inconsistent tipper became but that's another discussion.
2) Hocus Pocus = Down B shenanigan (1). Just ban Down B and the problem is non-existent.
3) Thwack = Down B shenanigan (2). Just ban Down B.
4) Language Barrier = Just ban Down B. Not anyone can be multilingual (and if you are, you have a valuable set of skill, trust me).

Yes Hero will suffer from having a whole set of moves taken away from him but surely players can discipline themselves and push the Hero meta forward without relying on Down B.

And against the argument of what happens if people mistakenly activate it? Then we treat it like the start button. You open the menu up, you can still cancel it, but if you let it rip in any form, you lose a stock.

Would anyone care to amuse the idea? I understand that level of RNG is unhealthy for competitive scene is which is what the people who want him banned are harking at (regardless of how good or bad Hero is overall). But there are some people who don't want him banned purely because they love the franchise of Dragon Quest and they want to use him the character they love or see him on the big screen. I honestly wish there's a top player or figure that would push this idea rather than banning Hero or not.

 

"HERO IS ANTI COMPETITIVE! BAD!"
Meanwhile both Smash games that could get balance patches nerfed certain characters VERY early on just because casuals whined they couldn't mash buttons to win, those characters being Little Mac in 4 and K.Rool now. Can one truly believe that sentiment when the game itself caters towards reactionary people who are just bad at the game. Shortly afterwards those characters were considered low tier at best, bottom 5 at worst, people are already finding cracks in Hero's kit. Whether it's the pisspoor disadvantage, the lackluster normals, the RNG possibly being detrimental to Hero and having 2 of the worst moves in the game in the form of Kaclang and Metal Slash, one thing is clear, people are learning how to deal with them. Seeing people decry Hero and calling for a ban just screams salt as it's not like Hero will constantly have the best options available to them, imagine if we get Samsora VS MKLeo at the grand finals of the next major and Samsora gets Bobombs every single time he hits down B. Would people call for Peach bans?

As for my thoughts on Hero, I'm fine with the spells as that's how you balance resource management although I hope they remember that philosophy with Robin. Crits are a bit much though even if they aren't AS centralizing as people make it out

 

Wouldn't it be more healthy and productive to not ban Hero entirely but rather the down B, the center of this controversy? If we're to list the key points on why the South Australian community banned him can be boiled down to four points as pointed out by many top players.

1) Critical hit Smashes = It's not like he has a combo route that guarantees a hit with his Smash attacks. Most likely you're getting hit because your opponent read you correctly. Also it's kinda comparable to Marth's smashes since that's on par with how inconsistent tipper became but that's another discussion.
2) Hocus Pocus = Down B shenanigan (1). Just ban Down B and the problem is non-existent.
3) Thwack = Down B shenanigan (2). Just ban Down B.
4) Language Barrier = Just ban Down B. Not anyone can be multilingual (and if you are, you have a valuable set of skill, trust me).

Yes Hero will suffer from having a whole set of moves taken away from him but surely players can discipline themselves and push the Hero meta forward without relying on Down B.

And against the argument of what happens if people mistakenly activate it? Then we treat it like the start button. You open the menu up, you can still cancel it, but if you let it rip in any form, you lose a stock.

Would anyone care to amuse the idea? I understand that level of RNG is unhealthy for competitive scene is which is what the people who want him banned are harking at (regardless of how good or bad Hero is overall). But there are some people who don't want him banned purely because they love the franchise of Dragon Quest and they want to use him the character they love or see him on the big screen. I honestly wish there's a top player or figure that would push this idea rather than banning Hero or not.

That's an interesting idea that I've heard tossed around for a while now. Thing is, while the scene has previously banned techniques that were believed to be overcentralizing (infinite cape, Wobbling, etc), it has never banned an entire move solely on principle without banning the rest of the character (except Mii customs in Smash 4 of course, but that's a whole other can of worms - seems like Ultimate's doing just fine in that regard). There's no precedent for a bona fide move ban, which is why I'm not pushing for it, but at this point I also wouldn't be against it either.

 

That's an interesting idea that I've heard tossed around for a while now. Thing is, while the scene has previously banned techniques that were believed to be overcentralizing (infinite cape, Wobbling, etc), it has never banned an entire move solely on principle without banning the rest of the character (except Mii customs in Smash 4 of course, but that's a whole other can of worms - seems like Ultimate's doing just fine in that regard). There's no precedent for a bona fide move ban, which is why I'm not pushing for it, but at this point I also wouldn't be against it either.

Not to mention banning his entire down special is just, again, knee jerk. That'd be like banning Bayo's slide kick during 4. Without those moves, they become 'less busted' according to some though the remainder of the kit isn't that great. Bayo was so good because her slide kick just let her go off on people like mad and net a kill at silly percents. Hero's down B just sort of maybe lets him do something interesting or 'busted' SOMETIMES.

Especially in Hero's case. Removing Down B entirely just makes him go from a 'sometimes blockbuster' to 'why play Hero when FE characters exist'? People want to play Hero for the spell mechanic, mostly. Even if they can't use it often (I'm still struggling to imagine games on any competitive level truly allowing Hero to open that thing regularly to begin with) they still have some sort of chance to use their entire kit to some degree. Just yoinking it away is a bad solution and is basically just banning Hero to anyway.

 

As mentioned by ZeRo, I believe that the biggest issue concerning Hero is not his RNG elements, but rather the language barrier he presents. I am referring to the fact that his down special requires the players to read the option that will be selected. This gives the player who has selected Hero a significant advantage against players who do not speak the same language. There is already evidence of such language barriers affecting how tournaments are run. For example, as also mentioned by ZeRo, Zackray, a talented player from Japan, saw trouble playing against Heros in the doubles bracket, because he could not read the English options on screen. In short, players should not have to learn an extra language so that they won't have to add even more RNG of guessing moves when fighting Hero. My suggestion is that tournaments should stop players from changing the language on the setups, and instead the TO should set them all to whatever language is native of the region.

TL:DR- Hero players are switching the languages when the are playing in bracket, which makes it unfair for their opponents who don't speak that language. We should have TOs stop players from changing the language so that Hero players don't get an unfair advantage.

Additionally, I would like to state that I am not 100% for the banning of Hero, but as he is now, he is unbalanced and inconsistent, and I would like to see a patch maybe change the character before we outright ban him from tournaments.

Link to ZeRo's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cXQ1d2HJ44

Excellent argument. Again, this is why I think there should be an option to not only turn off his random critical hits, but also give him a fixed list with only four tactical moves. With only four set moves, even if the player is foreign, as long as they have the fixed list committed to memory, they'll know what each move does, despite not being able to read it.

 

The issue I see here is how little time there's been to get a real grasp on if anything truly problematic is happening on a large scale. We have people afraid that Hero mains will cheese their way to upsets by top decking lucky spells. We have people frustrated by how RNG-heavy Hero is, worried that his very presence in a match can turn it into a complete crapshoot at will. We even have some who believe we're going to see Hero players place high in big tournaments through sheer luck and little actual effort (and I've learned Smash players really don't like the idea of a character not having to try as hard as everyone else).

Except...we have no significant evidence yet toward any of that actually happening. Far as I'm aware, no solo Hero mains (heh, Solo) have placed high in any majors or even regionals since v4.0 went live. It feels like people are seeing the jankiest examples from highlights and Twitch clips and fearing they're an accurate representation of how Hero matches usually go. But that's the thing, those occasions got clipped because they were so unusual and shocking. It says something that top level players, with few exceptions, seem to think Hero is too clunky and unreliable to be a serious threat so far.

I've seen past problematic characters brought up--Brawl Meta Knight, Smash 4 Bayo, Smash 4 double Cloud teams--as reason why we should take action now rather than let things play out and potentially fester. But there's a big difference between then and now: with those previous examples, they affected the metagame far faster and on a widespread scale. We had Bayo mains placing high from her very inclusion. Within just a couple months of Brawl being out, we were seeing Top 8s that were half Meta Knight. But with Hero, the ban talk feels less based on actual results and more based on people shellshocked from toxic characters in previous entries and afraid it's going to happen all over again before we even have any proof.

While we often feel compelled to act on instinct, to go with our gut feelings, we also need to be aware that those gut feelings can be wrong, and account for that. Remember right at Ultimate's launch, when clips were going around of apparent Meta Knight death combos and people were freaking out about how he was going to break a second Smash game? Then it turned out said combos were highly situational, impractical, and usually not even true conversions. We're already making a bad habit of jumping at false alarms. We need to make sure this isn't another one.

 

It's not arbitrary, it's an homage to his home series. The command selection works exactly like it does in Dragon Quest, something that you would know if you played those games. Smash also isn't completely tailored to the competitive scene, and tournament play shouldn't always be the main factor when deciding a character moveset, so there really isn't any point to resort to hindsight wisdom. Games like Street Fighter V and Marvel vs Capcom Infinite were catered towards the competitive crowd and the games ended up suffering in gameplay, presentation and content.

If it's not an arbitrary gimmick then where is that same menu and rng mechanic for the other RPG characters? Where is Ness' random chance to land a crit smash or his menu full of psi abilities? Where are the Pokemon's or Cloud's menus? That's like if the roster was full of characters from shooters yet one and only one of them could instantly do 100% to the opponent if a projectile hit them in the head as "an homage" to that particular shooter.

 

Because he's a DQ character and not a FE character, plain and simple. Players choose their main because that character fits their style and they like their design (game play and/or aesthetics).

I'm not saying the idea is bullet proof, however in order to appease both sides of the extreme, there would need to be compromise since the ban side is saying remove Hero and the other is don't remove it. I believe the remove Hero entirely is more knee jerk than remove an aspect of Hero, wouldn't you agree?

And again, this controversy is centered around Hero's Down B. The rest of his arsenal is quite fair in comparison.

 

The issue I see here is how little time there's been to get a real grasp on if anything truly problematic is happening on a large scale. We have people afraid that Hero mains will cheese their way to upsets by top decking lucky spells. We have people frustrated by how RNG-heavy Hero is, worried that his very presence in a match can turn it into a complete crapshoot at will. We even have some who believe we're going to see Hero players place high in big tournaments through sheer luck and little actual effort (and I've learned Smash players really don't like the idea of a character not having to try as hard as everyone else).

Except...we have no significant evidence yet toward any of that actually happening. Far as I'm aware, no solo Hero mains (heh, Solo) have placed high in any majors or even regionals since v4.0 went live. It feels like people are seeing the jankiest examples from highlights and Twitch clips and fearing they're an accurate representation of how Hero matches usually go. But that's the thing, those occasions got clipped because they were so unusual and shocking. It says something that top level players, with few exceptions, seem to think Hero is too clunky and unreliable to be a serious threat so far.

I've seen past problematic characters brought up--Brawl Meta Knight, Smash 4 Bayo, Smash 4 double Cloud teams--as reason why we should take action now rather than let things play out and potentially fester. But there's a big difference between then and now: with those previous examples, they affected the metagame far faster and on a widespread scale. We had Bayo mains placing high from her very inclusion. Within just a couple months of Brawl being out, we were seeing Top 8s that were half Meta Knight. But with Hero, the ban talk feels less based on actual results and more based on people shellshocked from toxic characters in previous entries and afraid it's going to happen all over again before we even have any proof.

While we often feel compelled to act on instinct, to go with our gut feelings, we also need to be aware that those gut feelings can be wrong, and account for that. Remember right at Ultimate's launch, when clips were going around of apparent Meta Knight death combos and people were freaking out about how he was going to break a second Smash game? Then it turned out said combos were highly situational, impractical, and usually not even true conversions. We're already making a bad habit of jumping at false alarms. We need to make sure this isn't another one.

No, please, stop. Don't use logic or critical thinking. It doesn't work in Smash.

 

I think this is an over-reaction. When Hero uses Command Selection, he's immobile. He can cancel this by using what's been selected with standard or special neutrals, blocking, dodging, rolling, jumping, or air-dodging. If Hero had control over what he wanted, rather than relying on randomness, then maybe the people of South Australia would have an argument. Between a revolver with all chambers filled versus a revolver with one chamber filled, which one would you fear most?

Depends on the skill of the shooters. If they all suck, then you’ve probably got a similar chance of survival when compared to a skilled shooter with one chamber filled. It all depends on the way they are used.

 

Depends on the skill of the shooters. If they all suck, then you’ve probably got a similar chance of survival when compared to a skilled shooter with one chamber filled. It all depends on the way they are used.

This analogy looks like you're saying Hero's Down-B takes skill because the limited "bullets" still need to be used skillfully just like any other move.

 

This analogy looks like you're saying Hero's Down-B takes skill because the limited "bullets" still need to be used skillfully just like any other move.

Yeah, I guess so. That analogy was open to interpretation.

On another note (somewhat related to the bullets)
Oomph and accelerate have disadvantages, kind of like Shulk’s Monado Arts (Oomph= damage taken ++, Accelerate= lighter and really fast). If you suck at the character, accelerate might cause you to SD, and oomph might hurt you more than help.
Unskilled shooters might not check the gun before use and have it backfire.
Let’s say they had rocket launchers instead. That changes things, doesn’t it? Lots of the moves are stupidly easy to use. Kaboom, Magic Burst (just stand on the ledge when opponent is trying to recover or something), etc.
As well as that, someone needs to nerf that neutral b. It does way too much shield damage, percent, and knock back.

 

As mentioned by ZeRo, I believe that the biggest issue concerning Hero is not his RNG elements, but rather the language barrier he presents. I am referring to the fact that his down special requires the players to read the option that will be selected. This gives the player who has selected Hero a significant advantage against players who do not speak the same language. There is already evidence of such language barriers affecting how tournaments are run. For example, as also mentioned by ZeRo, Zackray, a talented player from Japan, saw trouble playing against Heros in the doubles bracket, because he could not read the English options on screen. In short, players should not have to learn an extra language so that they won't have to add even more RNG of guessing moves when fighting Hero. My suggestion is that tournaments should stop players from changing the language on the setups, and instead the TO should set them all to whatever language is native of the region.

TL:DR- Hero players are switching the languages when the are playing in bracket, which makes it unfair for their opponents who don't speak that language. We should have TOs stop players from changing the language so that Hero players don't get an unfair advantage.

Additionally, I would like to state that I am not 100% for the banning of Hero, but as he is now, he is unbalanced and inconsistent, and I would like to see a patch maybe change the character before we outright ban him from tournaments.

Link to ZeRo's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cXQ1d2HJ44

Good point about the language.

 

Depends on the skill of the shooters. If they all suck, then you’ve probably got a similar chance of survival when compared to a skilled shooter with one chamber filled. It all depends on the way they are used.

Say they're both skilled, then.

 

If it's not an arbitrary gimmick then where is that same menu and rng mechanic for the other RPG characters? Where is Ness' random chance to land a crit smash or his menu full of psi abilities? Where are the Pokemon's or Cloud's menus? That's like if the roster was full of characters from shooters yet one and only one of them could instantly do 100% to the opponent if a projectile hit them in the head as "an homage" to that particular shooter.

So pretty much the old "nobody can have nice things because others don't"?

I don't see why adding a unique feature to a character means that the devs should be obligated to retroactively do so with everyone else. What would make them stand out if they make everyone the same then? It's damned if you, damned if you don't.

Nobody is asking for Cloud, Ness or the Pokemon to receive the exact treatment; those characters got plenty going for them and Cloud has his own limit break as well. Not to mention that that design is unorthodox at first and would require a steeper learning curve for them. However, the amusing part is that if Hero didn't exist in Smash, you wouldn't be demanding his unique feature for other fighters, so the sentiment is just coming from a place of pettiness and envy really.

 

*uses Forward Smash after using Pk Fire
*SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSH
*Dies at 0%
Trust me, everybody would hate Ness even more if he had random crits.
(Fix the language barrier for Hero please, I don't want him to be banned.)

 

So pretty much the old "nobody can have nice things because others don't"?

I don't see why adding a unique feature to a character means that the devs should be obligated to retroactively do so with everyone else. What would make them stand out if they make everyone the same then? It's damned if you, damned if you don't.

Nobody is asking for Cloud, Ness or the Pokemon to receive the exact treatment; those characters got plenty going for them and Cloud has his own limit break as well. Not to mention that that design is unorthodox at first and would require a steeper learning curve for them. However, the amusing part is that if Hero didn't exist in Smash, you wouldn't be demanding his unique feature for other fighters, so the sentiment is just coming from a place of pettiness and envy really.

I absolutely don't want those mechanics on the other RPG characters. People already hate Ness enough as it is because they don't know how push the shield button or jump over PK Fire, the last thing he needs is to be able to randomly kill you at early percents from a smash attack.

I'm just calling it what it is, an arbitrary gimmick.

 

I absolutely don't want those mechanics on the other RPG characters. People already hate Ness enough as it is because they don't know how push the shield button or jump over PK Fire, the last thing he needs is to be able to randomly kill you at early percents from a smash attack.

I'm just calling it what it is, an arbitrary gimmick.

So why did you demand those mechanics on those characters then? Seems a bit nonsensical to backpedal now in such a way from your previous post.

 

So why did you demand those mechanics on those characters then? Seems a bit nonsensical to backpedal now in such a way from your previous post.

I didn't, you misread my post.

My point was that if Hero's RNG wasn't an arbitrary gimmick like you claimed it was, then other RPG characters would have something similar to it. The fact that only Hero had this mechanic tacked onto him while a perfectly serviceable moveset could have been made without it shows that it was only done out of some arbitrary need for DLC characters to have some kind of gimmick.

 

I didn't, you misread my post.

My point was that if Hero's RNG wasn't an arbitrary gimmick like you claimed it was, then other RPG characters would have something similar to it. The fact that only Hero had this mechanic tacked onto him while a perfectly serviceable moveset could have been made without it shows that it was only done out of some arbitrary need for DLC characters to have some kind of gimmick.

Misread you say?

If it's not an arbitrary gimmick then where is that same menu and rng mechanic for the other RPG characters? Where is Ness' random chance to land a crit smash or his menu full of psi abilities? Where are the Pokemon's or Cloud's menus?

I'm gonna have to say negative to that. Your post clearly implies a demand for that same mechanic to be shared on the other RPG fighters. Now if that wasn't your intention behind it, you'll have to forgive me for getting the wrong idea due to the wording of your sentence. I would recommend perhaps working on representing your ideas better through your writing.

Speaking of using words correctly, define 'arbitrary'. I ask because I'm certain you are misusing that word entirely. There is nothing random or whimsical about the implementation of Hero's mechanics, as they clearly did their research and based them entirely on the gameplay system that exists within the Dragon Quest games. If that is arbitrary to you, then I would urge to get a new dictionary.

And while it's true that Hero would perhaps have been serviceable with a regular ol' moveset, that doesn't mean that that would have been a good idea. Take away what makes Hero fun, interesting and unique, and you are left with a plain vanilla character. I don't think that's what people or the devs would have wanted. It's better to put more effort into making a character like him stand out, rather than opting for the lazier and less creative route.

 

I'm gonna have to say negative to that. Your post clearly implies a demand for that same mechanic to be shared on the other RPG fighters. Now if that wasn't your intention behind it, you'll have to forgive me for getting the wrong idea due to the wording of your sentence. I would recommend perhaps working on representing your ideas better through your writing.

Please learn the difference between a question asked rhetorically and one asked out of an actual want for something.

If it's not an arbitrary gimmick then where is that same menu and rng mechanic for the other RPG characters? Where is Ness' random chance to land a crit smash or his menu full of psi abilities? Where are the Pokemon's or Cloud's menus? That's like if the roster was full of characters from shooters yet one and only one of them could instantly do 100% to the opponent if a projectile hit them in the head as "an homage" to that particular shooter.

Pay attention to those first 7 words there and you'll see where my post was coming from. Is picking a single RPG character out of dozens to give RPG mechanics to arbitrary? Yes. Do I want these mechanic on other RPG characters? No.

In fact you can already read my dislike of tacked on gimmicks in this very comment section.

If Hero never had an arbitrary gimmick slapped onto him there wouldn't be such a controversy around him. I honestly hope Sakurai is aware of this and pulls the reigns back in on gimmicks.

Not like Hero couldn't have been bull**** in other ways since his fireball is apparently a doriyah in projectile form. Square tends to make sure their stuff is overpowered in crossover games if Smash 4's Cloud and Monster Hunter World's Drachen Armor is anything to go by.

So yeah, no idea why you're doing this right now when you already knew I want less gimmicks.

 

Please learn the difference between a question asked rhetorically and one asked out of an actual want for something.

Poe's Law comes into effect here. Your statement by itself didn't distinguish clearly between an ideological posture or a rhetoric, so people are naturally going to interpret it the way it was written. Can't fault me for interpreting the way I did, sport.

Pay attention to those first 7 words there and you'll see where my post was coming from. Is picking a single RPG character out of dozens to give RPG mechanics to arbitrary? Yes. Do I want these mechanic on other RPG characters? No.

I do know that you still don't understand when something is arbitrary and when it isn't. You try to see a correlation between arbitrariness and the lack of the mechanic's implementation in other characters without even establishing a proper connection first, which would actually provide that much needed insight to understand the point. In order for Hero's mechanics to be arbitrary, it would have required for the developers to thoughtlessly slap it on him without rhyme or reason, without taking any basis from his home games at all.

A unique mechanic is not a gimmick. People often make the mistake of overlapping those terms together, calling a mechanic a "gimmick" when they just don't like it. A gimmick would have to be something like Jigglypuff's joke character sthick and having the unique tendency of flying to the upper blastzone when its shield breaks; or Incineroar's tendency to pose after most of his moves.

Your dislike may stem from an unwillingness to get out of your comfort zone or close mindedness in trying something different. And it's fine to not like a certain type of playstyle, but normalizing a moveset so that they can just be "serviceable enough" would be taking the mediocre route and is also a very uninteresting way to make new fighters. Hero is better off the way he is now rather than being a regular character because that makes him fresh and fun. Not sure why it's suddenly wrong for developers to put effort into such creative choices.

 

Enough of this. Go be pedantic somewhere else.

 

I understand the logic behind the ban, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
Hero is simply not overpowered. Yea, an occasional Thwack sucks, and Magic Burst is a bit OP if rolled at the right time, but tournaments are for professional players, not casuals, and the problems of Hero really only affect casual play, bar the language barrier.
The luck factor is simply too unreliable to win seriously tournaments. Not saying Hero CAN'T win tournaments if players get good with him, but to say that he's carried by dumb luck is ridiculous.

However, should Hero be "fixed" in a patch, I have an idea:
1. Streamline his Down B to have the spells rotate in a fixed order, eliminating the dice roll. Perhaps also have a wheel similar to Shulk's Monado Arts or the object wheels in Super Mario Maker 2 to organize spells for precise casting. This would almost certainly break Magic Burst, but I will address that in a later point.
2. Nerf crits slightly. This allows Hero to maintain the unique mechanic while not having it be as unfair when triggered. I'm not sure what the multiplier is for crits, but let's say if it's currently ×2, then nerf it to ×1.5.
3. Nerf Magic Burst. Since my first fixing point made accessing Magic Burst while ledge guarding actually reliable, this must be counterbalanced by giving Magic Burst a significant nerf. I'm not sure how much, as I haven't tested it with lower knockback yet, but I would imagine it would have to be nerfed by at least 50% knockback wise.
4. Nerf Whack an Thwack. This is probably the least important one, since having a streamlined Down B would almost always result in a more reliable spell being chosen, but to be completely safe in reducing luck, Whack and Thwack should probably be nerfed at lower percentages. Have a damage range that is completely impossible to KO at, but also perhaps slightly buff the upper range by making Whack and Thwack guarantee a KO at obscenely high percents.
5. BUFF Kamikazee. Yes, I said it. Buff something of Hero's. This move sucks. I tested it in Training Mode, and it does not kill Chrom on the very edge of Battlefield at 30%. Considering the startup time and opportunity cost, ie. it KILLS YOU, it should be AT LEAST as strong as Mac's KO Punch, which kills midweights at 30% on most stages, plus it's instant AND can be kill anywhere on stage due to having vertical knockback.

 

I understand the logic behind the ban, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
Hero is simply not overpowered. Yea, an occasional Thwack sucks, and Magic Burst is a bit OP if rolled at the right time, but tournaments are for professional players, not casuals, and the problems of Hero really only affect casual play, bar the language barrier.
The luck factor is simply too unreliable to win seriously tournaments. Not saying Hero CAN'T win tournaments if players get good with him, but to say that he's carried by dumb luck is ridiculous.

However, should Hero be "fixed" in a patch, I have an idea:
1. Streamline his Down B to have the spells rotate in a fixed order, eliminating the dice roll. Perhaps also have a wheel similar to Shulk's Monado Arts or the object wheels in Super Mario Maker 2 to organize spells for precise casting. This would almost certainly break Magic Burst, but I will address that in a later point.
2. Nerf crits slightly. This allows Hero to maintain the unique mechanic while not having it be as unfair when triggered. I'm not sure what the multiplier is for crits, but let's say if it's currently ×2, then nerf it to ×1.5.
3. Nerf Magic Burst. Since my first fixing point made accessing Magic Burst while ledge guarding actually reliable, this must be counterbalanced by giving Magic Burst a significant nerf. I'm not sure how much, as I haven't tested it with lower knockback yet, but I would imagine it would have to be nerfed by at least 50% knockback wise.
4. Nerf Whack an Thwack. This is probably the least important one, since having a streamlined Down B would almost always result in a more reliable spell being chosen, but to be completely safe in reducing luck, Whack and Thwack should probably be nerfed at lower percentages. Have a damage range that is completely impossible to KO at, but also perhaps slightly buff the upper range by making Whack and Thwack guarantee a KO at obscenely high percents.
5. BUFF Kamikazee. Yes, I said it. Buff something of Hero's. This move sucks. I tested it in Training Mode, and it does not kill Chrom on the very edge of Battlefield at 30%. Considering the startup time and opportunity cost, ie. it KILLS YOU, it should be AT LEAST as strong as Mac's KO Punch, which kills midweights at 30% on most stages, plus it's instant AND can be kill anywhere on stage due to having vertical knockback.

1. While I'd like to agree, I personally feel it'd make him a tad TOO consistent, allowing you to just bring the menu up until you know you're going to get the spell you want, when you need it (Namely things like Magic Burst, Heal, Zoom, Bounce, Kamakazi or Oomph). While I'd find that more fun than random spells every time I bring up the menu, It'd just cause 'stalling' to fish for the correct set of spells and make complaints about said spells more profound and annoying.

2. I agree. Crits should remain as a defining characteristic to the character but do feel a tad too impactful when they actually do happen (Even though I currently feel they are the reward for abysmal moves. His smashes are so slow and so unsafe, getting a hard hit once in a while for landing one feels alright considering other characters can do far more with their smashes for less risk).

3. If the menu system is set as discussed then a lot of his spells would need reworking to make them more fair. As it is, the spell is strong but a 'one time use' for a length of time. MP has to be recharged, which is difficult for Hero under most circumstances due to his poor speed, frame data and lack of any real set ups/combos to recharge quickly. The move is a gimmick to a degree and his best and almost only real edge guard tool. To compensate I'd rather Hero get an overall kit buff to his neutral to allow him to rely less on the gimmick and be able to do far more reliably. The compensation to that is to have him gain MP a bit slower, so burning all your mana for this spell could also make your next stock far more difficult. It'd likely force the use of this spell as the final stock ender but overall the move could likely use a small nerf regardless as it does kill fairly early even outside of edge guard options.

4. I feel these moves aren't even credible to tweak. They're bad moves through and through, can either be blocked, clanked/outright beaten or easily avoided. The only nerf I'd give is an increased mana cost so they're not searchable and spammable if a menu system like yours proposed were to become a reality. If you want to go for the gimmick, pay the gimmick tax. If it kills, laugh. If it doesn't, sweat for burning your valuable resource for it.

5. I wouldn't even bother buffing it. It, like Thwack/Whack are troll moves at best and deserve to be pretty bad but hilarious if they actually work. Any credible player really shouldn't be banking on the pure novelty of moves like Kamazaki, Thwack/Whack or Hocus Pocus if they're going into a match to win. They'll be used by style players or trolls just to 'bring hype' or something.