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Half Life: Full Life Consequences Mafia - Game Over - Who Won?

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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Gorf, what do you mean by splashing shades of grey? Does that mean opinions? Speculation? What should I be doing to move away from this robotic playstyle?
I get the impression that things are so structured to you in your head about this game. X is like this because Y, indefinitely. And if I hadn't played games where you've done things so similar like this in the past I'd probz call you scum for it... It might be the fact that you don't really know what reading for intent is, or what it is one needs to observe but that's for discussion somewhere else. Right now I dislike your play. Would I lynch you for it? If you continued it most probably but I wouldn't go out of my way to push for it.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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That isn't to get lost in your conspiracy theories, there are still ways to read a post and not all of them have a complex meaning.

Look at JM's play for example, he is playing back and white and most of his posts don't need a lot of explanation, because he tries his hardest to make his thoughts clear.

Some players aren't like that, like Xonar, or Ryker, or even Gorf.

Maybe that is why you are having such trouble understanding or coming to conclusion to these things, because you have yet to apply a logical approach to the situation, and are only looking at the surface of it.

Tell me, why do you think Ryker was being so erratic regarding Werekill? Read Gorf's post again and tell me if his thoughts match up with yours, if they do: explain. if they don't: explain why not.
 

Kantrip

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I always try to read for intent. I toss the word around a lot too. This is far from the first time I've been told that I'm not grasping what it truly means, though. I think I get what you're saying, too. My approach IS too mechanical, and I'm trying to play this game as if there's some sort of rulebook like with D&D or something.

@Soup: I wouldn't say I only read the surface level of things. I TRY to delve deeper, and I know there are players who can vouch for that. Either Swords or Xonar, I forget which one, understands how I think about things pretty well.

Anyways, this is starting to detract. I really appreciate the advice though :)

What do you mean by erratic in this case? I wouldn't say Ryker was being erratic at all. In fact, he was pretty consistent once he got a read on Werekill going. And by Gorf's post you mean the mini-case on Ryker? Can do.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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What do you mean by erratic in this case? I wouldn't say Ryker was being erratic at all. In fact, he was pretty consistent once he got a read on Werekill going. And by Gorf's post you mean the mini-case on Ryker? Can do.
Look at how flustered and upset Ryker is showing himself regarding Werekill. Why do you think he was being that way? How do you think Ryker would approach that situation as town?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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His thoughts on Werekill were legitimate but the grey we're talking about right now is his intentions to do things that he did. Hopefully these questions presented give you more to look at, and you will be able to give me and everyone else, a better stance.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Right now this is less telling of alignment and more "Mafia 101." Can we get back to our scheduled programming and talk about **** relevant to the game?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Actually, it's sort of relevant as i'm trying to a gauge a better read from him
 

Kantrip

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Sorry I got booted off the computer for a bit.

I've read over stuff again Soup, and I don't really see where Ryker gets flustered, though I do find that he's being a lot nicer to people he finds to be stupid in this game than he normally tolerates.

I was in the middle of an analysis of Ryker's posts wrt WK as well as Gorf's case on Ryker but it will have to wait until I get back. I'm going to bed now for a tourney I'm at tomorrow. I'll be back tomorrow evening/Sunday morning.
 

Jim Morrison

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What I think Gorf is doing in this situation is trying to incriminate you for the Werekill scum flip that he already KNOWS is going to happen. He is more adamant about incriminating you upon Werekill's scum flip than anything else. I'm getting from his words that he believes you to be bussing, and I think he is trying to direct suspicion onto you after his scummate gets lynched. Basically.
Why do you think scumGorf would go for such a player like Ryker, seemingly a lot harder to lynch than say, me or Soup (no offense to Soup, I have no idea if this is true, but your play just seems way more 'nice' than Ryker's lol)?

Next, if you share my view that Gorf could be scumpartners with Werekill, do you also agree with some of the connections I presented a while back? Have you drawn any new connections you could see?

What a jerk you are, guy! And man, there's a replacement on the horizon, too! Well, ****. Maybe we should give 'em a pass! I mean, we were being SUCH JERKS before. And now Werekill's gone!

**** that ****. I don't like it. I don't buy it.

Everything Werekill is doing is structured to make us feel bad about and second-guess the idea that he should be the lynch.
I'm very glad you touched this subject EE, because this is also the main reason I have given WK the benefit of the doubt, basically getting guilted into not lynching someone who only just replaces in
Your wall has pointed out a lot of things that have been said, but given new insights as well.

As soon as everyone agrees that not much more is needed out of this Day, I'll switch my vote to WK and we'll get a lynch rolling. I suggest we do this before giving the replacement a chance, because my heart strings WILL be tug...tugged...tuggen?
 

Evil Eye

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Tugged.

So I've read up. Narrowed my eyes re: Kantrip. The point of my question was to put him in a leadership idiom, which is out of his comfort zone, and he answered broadly about what state the town (aka the world around him) would be instead of what he would want to do (aka what I was looking for). He replies that he doesn't like the question because... he doesn't like a leadership position. You might even say it's out of his comfort zone. okay.jpg

I do like Laundry's readiness to point this out. That he discerned what I wanted with the question and then noticed when the opposite desired response was provided, and then pressed on it immediately, gives me a good whiff of town mindset.

I don't want to end the Day. Yeah the lynch is going exactly where I want it to, but even discussion after a lock can give you an idea of where people's heads are at and if they are even looking ahead. It has serviced my analyses and lookin's more than once. We've got *****es unaccounted for and some current lanes. Let's roll them out before we murderize WK.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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Not caught up but:
I've been giving the air that I like his lack of content, direction, push, and effort? My mistake.
Instead of giving off more air, give me more statements.
Right now I have a feel like you sorta (dis?)like me, and sorta (dis?)like gorf, and sorta dislike kantrip etc

Give me something to work with.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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I get the feeling just based on the conversation for some reason. I'll try to explain it:

Gorf is insinuating that he believes you are scummates with Werekill in the context that you are being very vocal about being on his wagon and want to be seen actively pushing for his lynch. AKA bussing.

Actually you're right, it's not a TvS between you and Gorf. It's a scumread on Gorf based on Werekill's scum flip. Typing that up made it clear in my head.

What I think Gorf is doing in this situation is trying to incriminate you for the Werekill scum flip that he already KNOWS is going to happen. He is more adamant about incriminating you upon Werekill's scum flip than anything else. I'm getting from his words that he believes you to be bussing, and I think he is trying to direct suspicion onto you after his scummate gets lynched. Basically.
Well, Gorf is only slightly leaning scum, so I'm not even too serious about him, and I didn't actually look at connections at all when posting this reads list, it was just individual players. But I looked into connections between them nonetheless and found a few things.

This, for example, I have no idea why L-2 would be such a problem. Further increases the pressure, but hardly any danger of a quick-hammer, if you just keep an eye on the thread. No one is actually planning to quicklynch someone with half the cast not posting, so the reluctance to vote here was pretty eh...
He also draws some attention to Soup, could signify trying to switch the topic.

In #200, he tries to downplay the factor of Werekill's emotions, but still keeps slot "pretty scummy"

From #268 on he tries to gather information of what other people think about Ryker's analysis of Werekill and if they agree on wether she's scummy or not.



That's what I found that could indicate a connection between those two.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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Alright I'm caught up. Not a lot to say, besides that I agree with WL's 400. Get those 4 other duders to post, see where current situations go and hammer dat WK.

Additionally, I like Kantrip.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Not caught up but:


Instead of giving off more air, give me more statements.
Right now I have a feel like you sorta (dis?)like me, and sorta (dis?)like gorf, and sorta dislike kantrip etc

Give me something to work with.
Why don't you ask EE about his readslist while you're at it?
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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Not asking you for a read-list, just want to know where your head is at. Especially regarding those three, because the stances are not there.

Hell, you don't even need to give me stances right now, it just bothers me because by commenting on things with comments like "dislike" still keeps all avenues open.

"Like I said before, I dislike things like this."
or
"Naw, I just disliked that statement."

See what I'm getting at? It sets you up to adapt to pretty much every situation.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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I figured as much, but that still doesn't answer my question.

Regardless:

I don't like Kantrip's slot. I have no idea why in blue blazes you do. I don't know Kantplay's meta by heart, but at the same time, his play here has been nothing short of horrid. He's admitted that he's taking a background stance on everything and letting things play out (THE PERFECT SPOT FOR SCUM TO SIT) rather than get his hands dirty and push the players he finds scummy. His answer to EE's question was grimy, and the way the topic devolved into Mafia 101 was not at all how I wanted that conversation to go (thank you Soup for bringing it back). I damn well don't want to let him go for that.

I'm okay with you. There are things about your play I find curious, and unfortunately I couldn't see where you were heading with Doors to ultimately get a read out of what you were trying to do, but some of the things you've been doing sit well with me and I'm okay with your slot for now.

I'm leaning on Gorf. Granted he might be screwed by the situation (his top two scumspects both vanishing from the thread for different reasons), but his content is few and far between. His push on Ryker was the first original read I've seen him push all thread, but his case was weak and full of holes. I want more from him, but I don't know if I'm going to get anything proactive from him at this point and there's nothing that I have to ask him anymore.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Say what? You've got a problem with me zeroing in on a read gradually. A read I was heavily encouraged to make by the environment of the last page and you have a problem with my trying to weigh it on my own instead. Okay, that's cool.

I really don't care that you think I care about being seen on that wagon. I do. I'm always going to get my stance out when I decide to play loud instead of playing quiet.



I care less about pursuing EE as he's simply not going to give me enough to lynch him with on Day 1, ever. What I care about is dying and leaving town with baseless town reads. A null read on EE is a scum read on EE.

If the bolded isn't a hyperbole, then try and lynch me.

Rephrase everything after the bolded because it's not coming out right.
Okay. How do his posts discussing Bronar and why he felt Bronar didn't warrant a town read weigh into your read?
Hey Gorf, these posts didn't go away. Why didn't you acknowledge them and respond to them?
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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I figured as much, but that still doesn't answer my question.
Right. Thought it was rhetorical.

Honestly, I'm less concerned with EE atm. For as far as I know, he's one of the types that do 1 scum at a time. Besides, his stances has been clear and I can easily see where his mind is at.

The fact that I like Kantrip is based on meta and vibes. I do endorse pressure, though.
 

DtJ Glyphmoney

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WHY IS THERE 12 PAGES ALREADY

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

Guess I'll go READ now then jerks
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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Say what? You've got a problem with me zeroing in on a read gradually. A read I was heavily encouraged to make by the environment of the last page and you have a problem with my trying to weigh it on my own instead. Okay, that's cool.

I really don't care that you think I care about being seen on that wagon. I do. I'm always going to get my stance out when I decide to play loud instead of playing quiet.
I guess my problem is, well, if it's dead a** OBVIOUS that his slot is seen as scummy by literally every poster, then why beat the dead horse as much as you did? Yea, you were heavily encouraged to make the read and I get that. But there's a difference between being encouraged to make a read on a slot and informing said encouragers of said read, and making a mockery of just about every post she makes. Hell, honestly I'd expect Ryker to have laid a vote on Werekill much earlier than what you did... And I'd expect Ryker to really dig into Werekill much earlier in her posting; Werekill's scumminess and emotional petty bullshiz were apparent from the very first post. But your response to it was brushing it off as an emotionally struck player being emotionally struck. I'd find it hard to believe you didn't take anything in EE's wall (regarding her first post) into consideration. And if you DID, I'd be surprised about you not pointing it out.

Ryker said:
I care less about pursuing EE as he's simply not going to give me enough to lynch him with on Day 1, ever. What I care about is dying and leaving town with baseless town reads. A null read on EE is a scum read on EE.
You think I'm looking to lynch you toDay? No that'd be dumb. But I bet if I was parading around D1 putting you on my scumlist you'd be pre' curious about why I'm making a baseless stance... And yea atm you have a baseless a** stance on EE.

Ryker said:
Rephrase everything after the bolded because it's not coming out right.
It's always the smart thing to look out for higher level players; anybody that's just cool with letting em slide even early game has a dumb mindset. But is there really any reason for you to preach that you don't like EE as much as you have? If so, I'd love to see it.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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Okay. How do his posts discussing Bronar and why he felt Bronar didn't warrant a town read weigh into your read?
Pretty null, actually. His reasoning makes sense about not wanting to give a town read based off of the earlier game shiz. But again, I don't see why he dislikes him. I mean if you know please show me but :ohwell:
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Pretty null, actually. His reasoning makes sense about not wanting to give a town read based off of the earlier game shiz. But again, I don't see why he dislikes him. I mean if you know please show me but :ohwell:
I'm pretty sure he flat-out said why he dislikes him. I'll go find the posts in a bit.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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I guess my problem is, well, if it's dead a** OBVIOUS that his slot is seen as scummy by literally every poster, then why beat the dead horse as much as you did? Yea, you were heavily encouraged to make the read and I get that. But there's a difference between being encouraged to make a read on a slot and informing said encouragers of said read, and making a mockery of just about every post she makes.
This is weightless.

Hell, honestly I'd expect Ryker to have laid a vote on Werekill much earlier than what you did... And I'd expect Ryker to really dig into Werekill much earlier in her posting; Werekill's scumminess and emotional petty bullshiz were apparent from the very first post. But your response to it was brushing it off as an emotionally struck player being emotionally struck. I'd find it hard to believe you didn't take anything in EE's wall (regarding her first post) into consideration. And if you DID, I'd be surprised about you not pointing it out.
But this isn't. I actually did have questions about where Ryker placed his vote, and I like that you're bringing it up.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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Well, Washed, if you're going to post those points; what do you think about them?

Talking about Ryker suspicion:

Rykar said:
It's this right here that scares me about Xonar. I find that he's started a discussion and that's about all he's accomplished. I'm reading him incredibly null at the moment and the fact that people like you readily give him a town read, quite frankly, scares white off my ***.
I'd like to know what others think about the bolded. Honestly, I think it's downplaying how I started off incredibly hard and I didn't like it. His reasons for having me on the dislike list are pretty ugly too, especially when he says I'm "incredibly null", and I doubt that sentence or two really is reason enough to dislike me, especially because he doesn't think it's scummy, he just disagrees.

Ryker is cool to me overall but there are some farts in his play here and there. Don't know what to make of it exactly, I'm just very wary of him.
Washed, am I still cool following your townRyker read?
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Xonar hadn't really said anything I disagree with until that last sentence. There reasons for wanting to lynch Werekill's replacement are severely mitigated because you have to take into account that he's probably a little ***** with no ulterior motive than just being a little *****.
At the moment, we have that cross vote as the biggest thing I can point out, but they're both pretty ****ty reasons for voting someone and, while I would probably be on one for a little while had I been here, I wouldn't be caught dead on either for the reasoning provided.
But, but, but, there was nothing DEFINING in it.
Please, by all means go ahead. I'll hold out on talking about it until after you. I'd much rather see your take on WK before mine.
To expand on EE.

I vote Werekill with hesitation. I imagine that EE would do the same thing based on what I know of both players. There's absolutely no second thoughts in EE's head.
Dislike me but you didn't disagree with anything I said except a sentence or two? Wat.
All it takes, babe. I'm going to keep your name being tossed around until I'm given reason to do otherwise. Just a couple sentences for you is worth a lot more than just a couple sentences from Soup.
Do you guys not get that Werekill's malarkey about not liking mafia and crap is null or am I reading it wrong?
This is Ryker's justification for not liking EE or Xonar. He says that he can get a lot from a couple of sentences, because they will mean more to him than a couple of sentences from someone like Soup. When I was originally reading it, I took it as Ryker trying to prevent people from giving town reads to such strong players so easily but on second readthrough, I see it's a lot shadier than that. I do like the fact that he's making us reevaluate our reads of these players, and I really don't see what scumRyker gains out of throwing mud at EE and Xonar so early in the game. Likewise, I get the feeling his read changed after he had some discussion with them.

There are bible sized books on scumminess related to Werekill's slot at this point... But there ain't no chapter on her replacing out. That shiz doesn't really make a difference, if that's something Werekill wants to do that's something Werekill wants to do.
Also, I don't like these posts. Care to explain why you wanted to sweep them under the rug when they very clearly tried to tie into Werekill's motives?

Actually, that's what your next paragraph is. Let me cut that out. I'll be coming back to that in a moment.
OI RYKER WHY DID THIS NEVER GET REALIZED

bolded so your *****ass sees it on reread.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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^That quote is seriously all I remember wrt Ryker mentioning Xonar.

About the bolded, it's true, sans the fact that that's ALL you had accomplished. You got the ball rolling. That was cool, but not necessarily a town tell. But your using of that to attain reads and whatnot was pre' visible, by me at least. I didn't really get it, but I'd be lying if I said that that was totally SCUMMY.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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I'd like to know what others think about the bolded. Honestly, I think it's downplaying how I started off incredibly hard and I didn't like it. His reasons for having me on the dislike list are pretty ugly too, especially when he says I'm "incredibly null", and I doubt that sentence or two really is reason enough to dislike me, especially because he doesn't think it's scummy, he just disagrees.

Ryker is cool to me overall but there are some farts in his play here and there. Don't know what to make of it exactly, I'm just very wary of him.
Washed, am I still cool following your townRyker read?
Yeh, you're cool, I expect most people to follow my read on him.

I don't read it as downplaying what you did. I see him calling a spade a spade. It's not so much because of what you did and moreso because you didn't get the chance to finish what you started with JM thanks to Werekill's *****ass. Anyone, town or scum, can start a discussion, but it usually takes the fruits to realize if the player is rotten or not.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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^That quote is seriously all I remember wrt Ryker mentioning Xonar.

About the bolded, it's true, sans the fact that that's ALL you had accomplished. You got the ball rolling. That was cool, but not necessarily a town tell. But your using of that to attain reads and whatnot was pre' visible, by me at least. I didn't really get it, but I'd be lying if I said that that was totally SCUMMY.
It's not scummy. It's just null.
 

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That feel when you press backspace and it takes you back a page, leaving your typed up post to fade away forever. Not like it was giant in the first place but here goes the abbreviated version.

EE's meta from Bebop is correct. BUT I heavily disagree with that it still applies to him as a player. And when I disagree with that, then I suddenly find myself disagreeing with nearly all of EE's case since its built around 'this is how Werekill SHOULD be acting as town'.

Big thing I'm concerned with is looking at Werekill outside of the game (especially in regards to EE in the GMT and his attitude towards mafia). The GMT thing I won't delve into beyond the fact that Werekill being on edge towards people is not something that is even remotely unlikely. Add that on top of the fact that he already pretty much quit mafia once, and you've got a recipe for someone who's going to be preposterously defensive as town. Hell, I'd even say he would have been more likely to fighter harder and longer before the replacement if he were scum since he'd have allies to ***** to and to keep him focused.

I don't like the Werekill lynch. Yes we would get connections or whatever, but he's a pretty hard core town read for me once you look at the big picture instead of just ingame.


On a different note, one thing I am very very disgusted with was Werekill talking to Ryker and EE about events occurring in this game via PM and AIM. If he flips scum, that pretty much confirms both of them as not on the same alignment with him (unless they planned this, in which case its probably the most underhanded mafia i've seen in a long time. Really don't think either Ryker or EE would pull it).



God that took forever to read this **** and then get this post written twice and I am just burned out on mafia. Yeah I know that if I really want to stop this Werekill wagon I'm going to have to find a new target, and I will get on that as soon as I can muster up the willpower to get back on board.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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That feeling when you typed up a post and accidentally forgot to open something in a new tab, eating up your whole post ._.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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Anyway @Laundry Quotes 3 and 4 from the top of your post don't really carry much. He says EE's not defining in the post Xonar refers to... I say he is? And if he really felt that, why not mention it at all? He says he wants EE's stance on Werekill before he gives HIS stance, giving the impression that EE's not been giving a stance... when it's clear that he had been? I'm sure just about everybody would agree on that. I already spoke about Quote 5.

Quote 1 is talking about how he's at a disagreement with Xonar when he says he'd be fine with lynching Werekill's replacement, stating that Werekill probz replaced out because she's a little b****. Why would Ryker think that at that point? Sure that's my thoughts, but I'm still down to lynch the slot regardless of the replacement; that slot's scummy as holy hell. Quote 2, nothing to pick at.

@Your question about my two posts, I'm not try'na sweep em under the rug. Her replacing out is her replacing out to me. That's about it. If I were to make a case on Werekill I'd not use that at all cuz it seems pretty weak mentioning how she may or may not have replaced out to try and not condemn her slot; I'd just stick with the vast amount of scumminess that she attained prior to the fact.
 
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