Half Life: Full Life Consequences Mafia - Game Over - Who Won?

[#HBC | Laundry]

Well there's the man of the hour.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Ultimately, Ryker's been totally fake and forceful about, like, everything. He's setting up a really good endgame for himself, cuz with all of those marvelous stances on scumWerekill, townLaundry and townSoup (both of which I feel), and wanting to be weary about Xonar and EE which a lot of people are cool with at this time, it looks picture perfect... Right?

To me, this seems both hard to prove and effectively jumping the gun. Usually you're not going to get something like "setting up endgame" on D1. Nothing's happened. No one's been lynched. Town's opinions are still forming. Hell, three people have yet to post in the thread. That's not nearly enough information for scum to have an idea of how to manipulate the game yet.

The fact that he's questioning the popular opinion when he feels they aren't warranted is better than him going along with it. If he just simply accepted it, he'd be what you call "blending," wouldn't he?

Also I don't think he's being fake, but that's just me.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

If I was a Staff Sergeant? That's a tough question. Being honest, I'd have to say if I were running the show the thread would probably be a huge cluster****. Either that or I'd fire all of the inactives forever and then do something stupid like make a terrible case or something. Honestly, I would much rather let genuine interactions play out. If someone (Gorf, for example) suspects another player (Ryker in this case), getting some elaboration and points against the target player would be great. Then the target player can defend and react to the pressure.

I really don't like this.

 

[Kantrip]

I didn't like the question so answering it was really awkward. It would be similar to asking you what you would be focusing on at the moment if you were a lurky newbie player. Leading is just not a position I'm comfortable/familiar with.

Also, what is your read on Gorf at the moment? Similar to what I asked Ryker, do you think his intent with his Ryker case was genuine?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

You don't explain anything being forced. You just list my posts and say they are and I say they aren't. Your only credit to it was the post number. I posted about what I felt was worth posting about. The majority of it was centered around Werekill.

Actually, that's not true. No I didn't scrutinize every post of yours and talk about how your mindset could have been in every scenario. But, I explained how from my perspective, it seemed really off how you slowly started zeroing in on Werekill as the thread progressed. Your first and second posts pertaining to Werekill don't even really show you finding her scummy, moreso that she's just being emotional and shiz... And I'm sure that if you were even kinda following UTrick'd you'd see that this game is a replica of her play that game when I zero'd in on her; flailing, defensive to the max, playing dat AtE, all the marbles. But as time goes, conveniently when it becomes apparent that people are getting on her play, you start calling it out. And then yelling it out. And then screaming it out, and drive the point that you think Werekill's scum. Posts 6-14 in my collapse bar is, sans a couple of posts not DIRECTLY quoting her, just you driving that read to the ground. Why does it seem like you care so much that you're seen on that wagon, that you're so adamant about being a major part of her lynch?

The only other thing aside from the last quote's one sentence talks about EE. Tell me, what should I think about EE?

Oh I see what you're doing here! Try'na lure me into saying something stupid! Dat Gorf! What you're thinking about EE isn't what bothers me, hell, I think it's smart for a townie to not be so eager to put em on his town list. What bothers me is the fact that the only reason I've seen you provide for your dislike of EE (and yes, your STATED DISLIKE OF EE) is that he didn't have second thoughts about voting Werekill (which is weird in and of itself, because the gap between Werekill's initial post (85) and EE's voting of Werekill (103) had 5 Werekill posts and 4 EE posts, so that reasoning makes no sense -.-). Again, correct me if I'm wrong in that that hasn't been your only stated reason. But similar to Werekill, it seems like you want to make it known that you don't like EE, and that you're looking out for EE. Every opportunity you can seize, you take to question somebody's town read on him, and I can't really be convinced that it's because you're looking out for them to not be manipulated by EE. Why would town be SO repetitive about such a notion that doesn't have much, if any, reasoning other than the fact that he's EE? But it DOES seem like the protown thing to do.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Like it or hate it, you answered a question trying to get an idea of what you want to do with "I'd let things go as they are," or "I'll lynch inactives!" That's not an answer I really like at all.

I like that Gorf's going against the grain and fleshing out a read on a player he doesn't like but his case is weak and I think he's barking up the wrong tree. I still question why he's trying to chalk Werekill's replacement **** up to null at worst when it's obvious that Werekill's doing it as a frustrated attempt not to kill his slot after it's already too late when he witnessed Werekill do that **** because of his own hands. Gorf knows better.

And I don't worry about people being genuine. Usually when you start calling someone fake, you're spinning their words into a light that benefits your points. It's a weak point to build a case from and I struggle to find myself buying it when I myself don't agree with their points. Likewise, townies do have reasons to lie or play underhanded at times. There's a reason Lynch all Liars doesn't have much weight.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Lol, I just looked at the post count. I saw Gorf call me out for having too much concerning Werekill with 14 posts when I have 60 posts in the thread.

I mean I just stopped at that reads list you posted after your catchup; nothing after that was really mentioned, seeing how I based this off of what I was thinking last night.

 

[Kantrip]

To clarify, "firing inactives" didn't mean lynching them. More like, literal firing as in an employer which I guess would be kind of like replacing them from the game. I realize it's not within my power. It also just so happens that Werekill and Gorf are the two people I have been looking at, and both of them are involved in ongoing conflicts. I don't see how "I'd let things go how they are now" is a bad answer to the question of "if you were leading what would you have happen".

I pretty much agree with your assessment of Gorf.

I see what you mean, and that's why I like to ask questions from different angles and follow lines of questioning that can force someone to take a stance that either shows their contradictions or admit to them. When things feel fake or forced, that's the kind of thing I would like to start pressuring a player for. It's not something to get them lynched over, but then we can see how they react to the pressure or being called out for lacking genuine intent.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I mean I just stopped at that reads list you posted after your catchup; nothing after that was really mentioned, seeing how I based this off of what I was thinking last night.

you're better than this. get the whole picture, don't stop partway.

 

[Kantrip]

I feel like I want to call Gorf vs Ryker TvS if Werekill flips scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well, the case applies throughout, I'd just be regurgitating the same ideas as I've been stating.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

To clarify, "firing inactives" didn't mean lynching them. More like, literal firing as in an employer which I guess would be kind of like replacing them from the game. I realize it's not within my power. It also just so happens that Werekill and Gorf are the two people I have been looking at, and both of them are involved in ongoing conflicts. I don't see how "I'd let things go how they are now" is a bad answer to the question of "if you were leading what would you have happen".

This actually clarifies a lot more. And you have to keep in mind the point of the question. Yes, answer the question itself, but what kind of leader are you if you sit around and let town bicker?

(A scummy one.)

((Hint hint.))

I see what you mean, and that's why I like to ask questions from different angles and follow lines of questioning that can force someone to take a stance that either shows their contradictions or admit to them. When things feel fake or forced, that's the kind of thing I would like to start pressuring a player for. It's not something to get them lynched over, but then we can see how they react to the pressure or being called out for lacking genuine intent.

I...guess? It's merely a matter of opinion. I really don't like going down the genuine route. It rarely leads to anything productive because it turns into an argument of "YOU WEREN'T GENUINE!" "YES I WAS" ad infinitum because there's no real off-putting, argument-stopping comeback to it. It's a subjective argument and any player worth his salt won't get into a huff about it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Actually, that's not true. No I didn't scrutinize every post of yours and talk about how your mindset could have been in every scenario. But, I explained how from my perspective, it seemed really off how you slowly started zeroing in on Werekill as the thread progressed. Your first and second posts pertaining to Werekill don't even really show you finding her scummy, moreso that she's just being emotional and shiz... And I'm sure that if you were even kinda following UTrick'd you'd see that this game is a replica of her play that game when I zero'd in on her; flailing, defensive to the max, playing dat AtE, all the marbles. But as time goes, conveniently when it becomes apparent that people are getting on her play, you start calling it out. And then yelling it out. And then screaming it out, and drive the point that you think Werekill's scum. Posts 6-14 in my collapse bar is, sans a couple of posts not DIRECTLY quoting her, just you driving that read to the ground. Why does it seem like you care so much that you're seen on that wagon, that you're so adamant about being a major part of her lynch?

Say what? You've got a problem with me zeroing in on a read gradually. A read I was heavily encouraged to make by the environment of the last page and you have a problem with my trying to weigh it on my own instead. Okay, that's cool.

I really don't care that you think I care about being seen on that wagon. I do. I'm always going to get my stance out when I decide to play loud instead of playing quiet.

Oh I see what you're doing here! Try'na lure me into saying something stupid! Dat Gorf! What you're thinking about EE isn't what bothers me, hell, I think it's smart for a townie to not be so eager to put em on his town list. What bothers me is the fact that the only reason I've seen you provide for your dislike of EE (and yes, your STATED DISLIKE OF EE) is that he didn't have second thoughts about voting Werekill (which is weird in and of itself, because the gap between Werekill's initial post (85) and EE's voting of Werekill (103) had 5 Werekill posts and 4 EE posts, so that reasoning makes no sense -.-). Again, correct me if I'm wrong in that that hasn't been your only stated reason. But similar to Werekill, it seems like you want to make it known that you don't like EE, and that you're looking out for EE. Every opportunity you can seize, you take to question somebody's town read on him, and I can't really be convinced that it's because you're looking out for them to not be manipulated by EE. Why would town be SO repetitive about such a notion that doesn't have much, if any, reasoning other than the fact that he's EE? But it DOES seem like the protown thing to do.

I care less about pursuing EE as he's simply not going to give me enough to lynch him with on Day 1, ever. What I care about is dying and leaving town with baseless town reads. A null read on EE is a scum read on EE.

If the bolded isn't a hyperbole, then try and lynch me.

Rephrase everything after the bolded because it's not coming out right.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Well, the case applies throughout, I'd just be regurgitating the same ideas as I've been stating.

Okay. How do his posts discussing Bronar and why he felt Bronar didn't warrant a town read weigh into your read?

 

[Kantrip]

I...guess? It's merely a matter of opinion. I really don't like going down the genuine route. It rarely leads to anything productive because it turns into an argument of "YOU WEREN'T GENUINE!" "YES I WAS" ad infinitum because there's no real off-putting, argument-stopping comeback to it. It's a subjective argument and any player worth his salt won't get into a huff about it.

Actually I guess you're right on the subjectivity thing. This is why I like just finding things as I read that I think seem scummy without going in with preset "tells" that I'm looking for.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I feel like I want to call Gorf vs Ryker TvS if Werekill flips scum.

o_O

What possible reasoning do you have for that? If you have a scum read on one pending Werekill's flip, then you have a scum read. Setting up a TvS ultimatum is not something you want to do often as town and I don't see where you've got such little room for error based on what's been posted.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

o_O

What possible reasoning do you have for that? If you have a scum read on one pending Werekill's flip, then you have a scum read. Setting up a TvS ultimatum is not something you want to do often as town and I don't see where you've got such little room for error based on what's been posted.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

So, am I the only person who isn't really content with Kantrip?

 

[Kantrip]

o_O

What possible reasoning do you have for that? If you have a scum read on one pending Werekill's flip, then you have a scum read. Setting up a TvS ultimatum is not something you want to do often as town and I don't see where you've got such little room for error based on what's been posted.

I get the feeling just based on the conversation for some reason. I'll try to explain it:

Gorf is insinuating that he believes you are scummates with Werekill in the context that you are being very vocal about being on his wagon and want to be seen actively pushing for his lynch. AKA bussing.

Actually you're right, it's not a TvS between you and Gorf. It's a scumread on Gorf based on Werekill's scum flip. Typing that up made it clear in my head.

What I think Gorf is doing in this situation is trying to incriminate you for the Werekill scum flip that he already KNOWS is going to happen. He is more adamant about incriminating you upon Werekill's scum flip than anything else. I'm getting from his words that he believes you to be bussing, and I think he is trying to direct suspicion onto you after his scummate gets lynched. Basically.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

So, am I the only person who isn't really content with Kantrip?

I've been giving the air that I like his lack of content, direction, push, and effort? My mistake.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I've been giving the air that I like his lack of content, direction, push, and effort? My mistake.

Actually, I came into this thread with my cache not being refreshed, and then I saw your posts.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I get the feeling just based on the conversation for some reason. I'll try to explain it:

Gorf is insinuating that he believes you are scummates with Werekill in the context that you are being very vocal about being on his wagon and want to be seen actively pushing for his lynch. AKA bussing.

Actually you're right, it's not a TvS between you and Gorf. It's a scumread on Gorf based on Werekill's scum flip. Typing that up made it clear in my head.

What I think Gorf is doing in this situation is trying to incriminate you for the Werekill scum flip that he already KNOWS is going to happen. He is more adamant about incriminating you upon Werekill's scum flip than anything else. I'm getting from his words that he believes you to be bussing, and I think he is trying to direct suspicion onto you after his scummate gets lynched. Basically.

So. Why. The. Hell. Did. You. Unvote. Him.

 

[Kantrip]

Ugh, I guess this isn't working for me.

Pre-role PM I'm saying now that I'm going to try to post less and try to focus on less things at once and just overall make sure I push out quality over quantity content.

Don't give me a pass for my actions, but I have been trying to follow the advice I was given by Swords and some other people of "don't focus on so much at once". I'll scratch that and flesh my game out if that's what you guys want from me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I get the feeling just based on the conversation for some reason. I'll try to explain it:

Gorf is insinuating that he believes you are scummates with Werekill in the context that you are being very vocal about being on his wagon and want to be seen actively pushing for his lynch. AKA bussing.

Actually you're right, it's not a TvS between you and Gorf. It's a scumread on Gorf based on Werekill's scum flip. Typing that up made it clear in my head.

What I think Gorf is doing in this situation is trying to incriminate you for the Werekill scum flip that he already KNOWS is going to happen. He is more adamant about incriminating you upon Werekill's scum flip than anything else. I'm getting from his words that he believes you to be bussing, and I think he is trying to direct suspicion onto you after his scummate gets lynched. Basically.

I... don't see that. If Gorf is scum, that's not what I'm going to lynch him for as it's baseless paranoia. As far as I recall, you have stated no reason to suspect that he isn't being legitimate in his assumptions.

 

[Kantrip]

So. Why. The. Hell. Did. You. Unvote. Him.

At the time I liked him going against the grain and pressuring Ryker. I also wanted to go into the Ryker vs Gorf conflict without being on either side from the start.

I just changed my mind on the interaction now.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

But that's the thing. You're not pushing out quality at all. You're speaking more words but saying less. You're not doing anything. Despite a scumread on Gorf, you're not really pushing him. You're backing off and letting him and Ryker go at each other. Generally when you have a scumread on someone, you pursue it and the added pressure is always welcome. Even if your reasoning is stupid the gutread came from somewhere. >:v

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I wish I could vote two people at the same time.

 

[Kantrip]

I... don't see that. If Gorf is scum, that's not what I'm going to lynch him for as it's baseless paranoia. As far as I recall, you have stated no reason to suspect that he isn't being legitimate in his assumptions.

Well I don't remember Gorf saying all that much about Werekill at all. He's been more concerned with pressuring you ASSUMING you are bussing Werekill (your partner in this scenario). This is jumping way too far ahead of himself at the very least, as I would think townGorf should be more concerned about Werekill's flip first, and pending a scum flip he can deal with a connection to you that he thinks exists afterwards. 'Ya dig?

 

[Kantrip]

And I was almost worried I wouldn't get my dose of D1 pressure this game.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Ugh, I guess this isn't working for me.



Don't give me a pass for my actions, but I have been trying to follow the advice I was given by Swords and some other people of "don't focus on so much at once". I'll scratch that and flesh my game out if that's what you guys want from me.

Washed, do you think Kantrip's pre-planned play has any indication on how you are reading him? What do you think about him using it as an excuse, as suggested here?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Washed, do you think Kantrip's pre-planned play has any indication on how you are reading him? What do you think about him using it as an excuse, as suggested here?

I'm not letting it influence my read. Just because he's approaching the game differently doesn't mean I expect anything different of him.

 

[Kantrip]

Basically I'm not sure what to do seeing as I agree with the lynch that's set up, I like the interaction that's going on and don't want to interfere with it, and the only other thing I'd like to happen is for the rest of the players to get involved. Doing anything else would just clutter the thread and go against exactly what I'm attempting in trying to focus on key things at a time.

If there's something you're expecting from me though I am willing to do it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I don't agree with the case as a case and there are definitely areas I hope to see Ryker tear apart. That said, I like what Gorf is doing with it and I think his points are valid enough to merit discussion.

Basically, I don't feel compelled to jump on Ryker or anything, but I can dig what Gorf is saying which is why I want to see how Ryker responds.


Yeah, this game has a lot of alpha players who are running a variety of their own little shows. As I said earlier, I liked the Werekill pressure that has been going on and I feel his play reflects how he reacted to me on UTrick'd. Unfortunately I backed down there because the backlash was more than I expected at the time. Then he went and replaced out and now we have to wait for a replacement to come in, catch up, and then assess them from there. At the moment, that is the slot I would lynch.

I was also looking at Gorf before for laying back without dipping more than his toes in the water. This turn on Ryker should amend that as it plays out though.

If I was a Staff Sergeant? That's a tough question. Being honest, I'd have to say if I were running the show the thread would probably be a huge cluster****. Either that or I'd fire all of the inactives forever and then do something stupid like make a terrible case or something. Honestly, I would much rather let genuine interactions play out. If someone (Gorf, for example) suspects another player (Ryker in this case), getting some elaboration and points against the target player would be great. Then the target player can defend and react to the pressure.

Because I've learned that pressure brings on the most genuine reactions in most cases.

It feels like your posts are from, like, a robot that had the concept of mafia programmed into his system and that computer developed a virus. EVERYTHING you say (and yes this includes posts that are after this that I glanced over) is so structured, so black and white as far as your span of playing the game. You'll never get anywhere if you don't splash some shades of grey...

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Washed, your #400 really sums up a lot of what I'm thinking. I really want to get into the other content posted, but I just see ourselves having scum in our hands right now, and the need to push anything else is merely just an information hunt, I don't see anything truly scummier than Werekill right now, and I feel there is going to be a thick air in the room because of it.

Nothing anyone has done has come even close as bad as what Werekill has done, and that's a solid argument for anybody else.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Is there some mitigation with Werekill that we can go off of? Absolutely, just look at Gorf's case he made on Ryker on the same subject, and EE's huge wall. There is plenty of information there right now, and I feel like i'm being spoiled because of it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Read it. I'm sold.

But this still begs the question: should we really continue this day much longer? I mean, usually days go so long for town to find the best lynch possible, but it's going to take a guy jumping 20 feet in the air and screaming "I'M SCUM" at the decibel level of an AC/DC concert for me to even consider anyone other than Werekill at this point. That's just how badly Werekilled played and just how obvious his alignment was, and I know I'm not alone in this sentiment.

Likewise, I don't want him to get replaced if he is our lynch for today. I don't want another player to walk into the same situation I had in Walgreens. I hated every second of it, and I don't want Stew to be put into the same situation. Likewise, I don't want this to be another Jerkus-J situation from Lost. It could effectively delay his lynch and I really don't want to give scum more time to push an M/L at the last second.

Granted, there's three players who have yet to post and a fourth who has yet to post anything of consequence. I do want to hear from this players before I'd even say "go ahead and hammer him." I want GorfvRyker to flesh out a bit more (going to comment on that in a second). But we've got our lynch, and our lynchee has left the game, preventing the paper trails from really developing further. What else could we possibly need beyond that?

I second everything said in this.

 

[Kantrip]

Gorf, what do you mean by splashing shades of grey? Does that mean opinions? Speculation? What should I be doing to move away from this robotic playstyle?

 

[Kantrip]

And yeah I think everyone agrees with WL's #400.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Gorf, what do you mean by splashing shades of grey? Does that mean opinions? Speculation? What should I be doing to move away from this robotic playstyle?

Have a more intricate approach to the game rather than what is presented, look into intentions of a post and decipher logical explanation.