Hacking Stages to Increase Competitive Options.

[Tristan_win]

Hello brawl+ forum , I just recently got the idea that I thought you Brawl+ fan should look into if you haven’t already. Like the title suggest I’m thinking about stages hacking in order to make them more tournament able but why should we stop there? If we are already in the goo of changing stages we might as well improve them as well.

Just imagine….

Imagine if Pokemon stadium 1 and 2 never changed or that the windmill in PS1 was like how it was in melee.

Imagine if norfair, Onett, jungle japes, Halberd, and more didn't have any hazards, ever.

Imagine if Yoshi’s island brawl did have a set pattern for those side platforms to come up or maybe they would never come up at all.

Imagine if Frigate Orpheon always flip at a exact amount of time that we set or that the side platform would come at a set time or not at all.

Imagine if Lylat Cruise raised and lowered it’s edges to a pattern we set.

Imagine if big blue was set up so that the cars always did the same exact pattern or maybe they always be there when you landed on the track.

Imagine if Pictochat would only do the selected designs that the community picked.

Imagine if Defino Plaza had a set pattern and could be design to avoid those stages that could allow wall infinites to occur.

Imagine if port town Aero Dive had no cars or that touching the moving track wasn’t capable of killing so effectively.

Imagine if warioware never changed from it original set up.

This I can see all being possible and maybe more…Going deeper into the programming we might even be able to change the blast zone distances for the stages thus making them more balanced for such as those like Hanenbow or maybe on select levels make some of them even more extreme to increase reason to counter pick a said stage in a selected match up.

The goal of this should be to make more neutral stages and to increases counter picking options which in turn help balanced the game overall while making it more interesting in a tournament setting. I’m not suggesting we should try to make every stage tournament capable that’s just not going to happen but with some small alteration could make this game more fun.

 

[Shadic]

We... We've already done that. Warioware doesn't change, for example. Luigi's Mansion stays broken at the start, and never "fixes" itself.

 

[5ive]

PS2 and Wario Ware already have stage freezers.
A lot of these ideas have already been mentioned elsewhere. We're one step ahead of you

 

[spunit262]

I snuggled in a half speed code for Big Blue in 4.0 (Didn't mean to just happened).

 

[Tristan_win]

If that's the case then how come there's not a heated debate thread on such things? No way everyone in the community would be like "Luigi's Mansion stays broken at the start". Doing that completely changes it's design and changes how it can be used as a counter pick.

Oh and I forgot to mention at the end but I did use the search option before making this thread.

 

[|RK|]

Nothing is wrong with Luigi's Mansion, or the two Pokemon Stadiums. The changes aren't that big of a deal. I mean, minus the fan stage. Cause imagine this scenario: you've gimped your opponent. They are in helpless. This was done right as the fan stage starts up. They fall slowly. You are one stock below them at 0%. Timer has five seconds left. They drift for those five seconds, and you lose the set. How's that work?

 

[IKOU]

Like 5ive said, most of these have already been mentioned and/or happened

 

[Team Giza]

Nothing is wrong with Luigi's Mansion

Besides you know... the loop.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Nothing is wrong with Luigi's Mansion, or the two Pokemon Stadiums. The changes aren't that big of a deal. I mean, minus the fan stage. Cause imagine this scenario: you've gimped your opponent. They are in helpless. This was done right as the fan stage starts up. They fall slowly. You are one stock below them at 0%. Timer has five seconds left. They drift for those five seconds, and you lose the set. How's that work?

That's really not likely to happen lol.

Whats wrong with it is the conveyor belt.

 

[Team Giza]

Imagine if norfair, Onett, jungle japes, Halberd, and more didn't have any hazards, ever.

I would much rather weaken the hazards on norfair than remove them entirely. Perhaps give them set knockback and less damage. They are fairly predictable and limit the ability to camp ledges.

Imagine if Lylat Cruise raised and lowered it’s edges to a pattern we set.

That would be great.

Imagine if big blue was set up so that the cars always did the same exact pattern or maybe they always be there when you landed on the track.

I would definitely be happy if we could make big blue playable.

Imagine if port town Aero Dive had no cars or that touching the moving track wasn’t capable of killing so effectively.

Set knockback and lower damage on both.

Imagine if warioware never changed from it original set up.

Though this is what is done now, I would be much happier if the mini-games were kept in tact and the prizes were changed so it was always just a 5% heal.

 

[leafgreen386]

Most of these have either already been done or have been talked about and are in the process of getting done. Plus a bunch more that you didn't even mention (like making spear pillar playable, for example, by freezing it and raising the bottom kill boundary to eliminate the loop, or making temple playable by restricting it to just the upper left section of it).

We have talked about stages in brawl+ multiple times, and have also had a thread dedicated to it in the broom. We're on top of this right now.

Giza: The warioware minigames can kill you right now. If they were kept, they would also need to be weakened. And besides that we would lose an awesome neutral.

 

[KarateF22]

Luigi's mansion didnt need to become permanently broken... it just needed a vastly increased amount of time until it fixes itself. and maybe easier to break down. Atm its WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too short. needs to be like one or two minutes before it rebuilds, not ten seconds.

 

[Greenpoe]

The problem with Luigi's Mansion is that it becomes a broken counterpick for several characters (Olimar, MK, and some others), while Deadlands is a fantastic neutral.

 

[Almas]

The Brawlplusery's view is (generally speaking) that modifying stages is good provided that it turns a banned stage into a neutral or counterpick. Modifying a stage that is more or less completely agreed to be a counterpick doesn't really contribute to the maps available, but the "new" stages created through neutral modification are very well wanted.

There exists most of the codes necessary for stage modification as it is: the most notable being spunit's death boundary modifier. I suggest that anyone interested in adding more stages go out and test some modifications for themselves. Get a suitable set of data which you think balances the map, and it'll be given a whirl. Contributing to Brawl+ in this way is a very effective method of getting yourself noticed by the Brawlplusery.

 

[illinialex24]

Yeah, if you could greatly weaken the cars on port Town that would be great.

 

[GHNeko]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF


http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224267


Seriously.

 

[Plum]

I personally HATE the Luigi's Mansion code.

I love that stage and it makes a great COUNTERPICK.

Who cares if some characters have a big advantage on the stage? That's why it is a COUNTERPICK. Strike the stage if you are playing somebody with an advantage there

I quickly took that code out of my codeset.

I would love for stages like Big Blue and Port Town to become viable stages. But for now I'm happy leaving my Big Blue as the empty road for Sonic Fun

 

[patoons]

where can one find these codes (esp pokemon stadium and luigis mansion). and, will it work for wifi, if i am the only one with homebrew on? as long as i load the stage? or will that cause problems?

 

[Greenpoe]

You can find the codes in the Brawlplussery thread, Competitive Code agenda, and/or the thread with all the WiiRD codes, but to play online, you MUST have the EXACT same codes on as everyone else you're playing with or it will desync (and thus not work).

 

[trojanpooh]

I also do not approve of the Luigi's Mansion code. We should try to work with the stages, not dumb them down till they are boring enough to be neutrals.

 

[illinialex24]

The only thing I would approve of is fixing Port Town, Sky World, and like Green Greens to become more neutral. Make the bombs less dangerous or something.

 

[OmniOstrich]

I personally HATE the Luigi's Mansion code.

I love that stage and it makes a great COUNTERPICK.

Who cares if some characters have a big advantage on the stage? That's why it is a COUNTERPICK. Strike the stage if you are playing somebody with an advantage there

I quickly took that code out of my codeset.

I would love for stages like Big Blue and Port Town to become viable stages. But for now I'm happy leaving my Big Blue as the empty road for Sonic Fun

I also do not approve of the Luigi's Mansion code. We should try to work with the stages, not dumb them down till they are boring enough to be neutrals.

Hi guys, TO here FYI most parts of the country ban that stage.

I give you exhibit A: Luigi's Mansion Gayness and Abuse

 

[trojanpooh]

That video isn't a good argument because the tornado has been nerfed, and my point still stands. Don't remove the house, instead do this.

*The pillars take only 4-5 weak hits to break
*The house takes around 20-30 seconds to recover

This makes the stage both more fun, and more competitive, because it is constantly changing, and the loops are also being destroyed very quickly. I hate how quick people are to freeze or flatten the stages.

 

[Revven]

*The house takes around 20-30 seconds to recover

No, NO, NO! I am VEHEMENTLY against the idea of the mansion coming back AT ALL. It's got Temple Syndrome when it comes back and is ridiculously good for characters like DK and what have you. I'd prefer the idea Chibo had where the mansion, once broken, stays broken and the person who CP'd it has to fight to keep it built and still up. It gives both players the chance to change the match around and would make it seem like an intense match IMO.

 

[iLink]

That video isn't a good argument because the tornado has been nerfed, and my point still stands. .

I'm not sure but I think the strongest point of that video was the end where he was able to run away and stall for the time to end. A couple characters can abuse the the floors much like mk's tornado, to me the biggest problem was the ability to stall like that.

EDIT: I agree with the idea to not let the mansion be rebuilt once it is broken.

 

[FrozenHobo]

The problem with Luigi's Mansion is that it becomes a broken counterpick for several characters (Olimar, MK, and some others), while Deadlands is a fantastic neutral.

^^
this. i hate the mansion. having another neutral is much better than another annoying counterpick where people can just run out the clock.

 

[Slashy]

No, NO, NO! I am VEHEMENTLY against the idea of the mansion coming back AT ALL. It's got Temple Syndrome when it comes back and is ridiculously good for characters like DK and what have you. I'd prefer the idea Chibo had where the mansion, once broken, stays broken and the person who CP'd it has to fight to keep it built and still up. It gives both players the chance to change the match around and would make it seem like an intense match IMO.

I-I agree with you!?

 

[Gea]

No, NO, NO! I am VEHEMENTLY against the idea of the mansion coming back AT ALL. It's got Temple Syndrome when it comes back and is ridiculously good for characters like DK and what have you. I'd prefer the idea Chibo had where the mansion, once broken, stays broken and the person who CP'd it has to fight to keep it built and still up. It gives both players the chance to change the match around and would make it seem like an intense match IMO.

The whole ceiling teching/ comboing off of it is what made Luigi's so good. It wasn't impossible to kill on like Temple, and honestly if you fear people running away just change the pillars to break easier. It is probably the only stage that mimics the huge living potential stages like mute/dreamland could give to characters that need it.

The house stands for so long most of the time because people prefer to fight on the bottom level of the house. If you want to destroy it, it isn't so bad. It just doesn't stay gone quite long enough.

This is one of the few new unique stages Brawl has given us. Why take it away? It isn't like certain characters can't already run away on large flat stages better than they should be able to if they really want to.

If you fear this happening, ban the stage or don't go there. There you go.

 

[MALCORE]

you guys should really watch the video again. its the ROB players fault for making that time run out like that. all he ever did was hang back and spam projectiles. he never once approached until he realized there was only one minute left. i think the MK player realized this and basically copied the ROB players playstyle... running away until you find an opening.

 

[Tristan_win]

I have a few possible ideas for Luigi's Mansion that make everyone happy

1. Increase the pillars heath by 3x to 4x times but once destroy they never come back.

2. Make upper pillars health extremely small or remove them all together while the bottom pillars would be impossible to break or with increased heath.

3. Find a way to add a new stage to the select stage window that has flat Luigi Mansion and normal with maybe modifications (it would be awesome if they could do this)

4. Most likely the best option would be increase the pillars a bit but increase the time until they come back to something like 30 secs.

 

[GHNeko]

I still wonder why we dont use the "Hold this button to freeze the stage"

<_>

And why we arent using custom stages to IMITATE hacked versions of stages so we dont have to **** with original stages.

<________________>

 

[Shadic]

If you fear this happening, ban the stage or don't go there. There you go.

No. If we can change the stage to make it either a decent CP or a counter pick, then do so.

Even if the stages are mostly the same, it's better to have one more.

 

[CyberGlitch]

I still wonder why we dont use the "Hold this button to freeze the stage"

<_>

And why we arent using custom stages to IMITATE hacked versions of stages so we dont have to **** with original stages.

<________________>

The button to freeze code had glitches...

But the custom stages is something I, and others have been advocating for a while now. Our suggestions concerning it have seemed to fall on deaf ears. Maybe people just want their neutral stages pretty.

I'm thinking of starting a neutral stage pack project. It'll be separate from Brawl+, as it can be used just as usefully in Vanilla Brawl, but Brawl+ can choose to advocate use of it if they want or not.

This map pack will include remakes of Brawl maps without the hazards/changes, and remakes of N64 and Melee stages, as well as neutral stages submitted or suggested by board members.

I could use help with suggestions, and with judging on submissions, and help from someone like you would be much appreciated if you're game.

 

[Gindler]

If they could increase the blastzones on warioware that'd be something. They're so ridiculously close to the stage

 

[trojanpooh]

We really need to work on the hold shield stuff, that way there can be a normal version of the stage as well as the hold shield for Tourney Mode.

 

[Greenpoe]

If they could increase the blastzones on warioware that'd be something. They're so ridiculously close to the stage

As long as you're using the strikeout system for tourney games, it's not an issue, because if you're using a character that is at a disadvantage, it isn't an issue. It can grant a small advantage/disadvantage just like the other neutrals can.

 

[GHNeko]

The button to freeze code had glitches...

But the custom stages is something I, and others have been advocating for a while now. Our suggestions concerning it have seemed to fall on deaf ears. Maybe people just want their neutral stages pretty.

I'm thinking of starting a neutral stage pack project. It'll be separate from Brawl+, as it can be used just as usefully in Vanilla Brawl, but Brawl+ can choose to advocate use of it if they want or not.

This map pack will include remakes of Brawl maps without the hazards/changes, and remakes of N64 and Melee stages, as well as neutral stages submitted or suggested by board members.

I could use help with suggestions, and with judging on submissions, and help from someone like you would be much appreciated if you're game.

I'm totally game for it.

 

[Gea]

No. If we can change the stage to make it either a decent CP or a counter pick, then do so.

Even if the stages are mostly the same, it's better to have one more.

LOL read my post more carefully. Ban as in stage strike.

 

[camelot]

Hey, I've looked through this (small) thread and noticed nobody's said anything about the Corneria stage.

Right now it doesn't seem like a very popular stage, but if it was increased in size, the blastlines were increased, and (maybe) something was done about the Arwings, I think it'd be a lot more fun to play on. The blastlines I think are the biggest problem. It's an ok counterpick right now though.

 

[GHNeko]

Hey, I've looked through this (small) thread and noticed nobody's said anything about the Corneria stage.

Right now it doesn't seem like a very popular stage, but if it was increased in size, the blastlines were increased, and (maybe) something was done about the Arwings, I think it'd be a lot more fun to play on. The blastlines I think are the biggest problem. It's an ok counterpick right now though.

If anything, they'd do WW before this stage. >_>