Gurren Lagann Mafia - Game Over - Who Lost the Most?

[T-block]

Sorry - you said "based mostly on meta". Point still stands though.

His defense is what consists mostly of meta =P

 

[Raziek]

Having re-read said exchange, you're right, T-Block. His defense was almost entirely meta and attacking Ryker's playstyle.

That said, I'm not ready to say I think Joey is scummy, because I'm not seeing much malicious intent behind his posting. He wasn't really trying to wagon Boat, because only two people (one being me) had voted him. I was looking for answers, and I don't feel like Joey was trying to push a mislynch.

Do you feel that his play is actually scummy, or simply misguided?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@JTB, Soup, X1: What is your opinion on Joey? Do you believe T-Block/WL's combined case has merit, or is it just Joey being Joey?

i believe i have shed light about this, i believe that Joey is doing scummy things but i am leaning more town with him, i see the case on him but i don't think it's something to pursue, more-over, i still like my vote where it is.

Nah, Raziek pretty much hit it on the head. You've been pretty hardcore on the sidelines, and I haven't seen much in the way of content. You're not giving me anything and when you are posting it, at least half of it has been fluff.

>implying i have to respond to every little tid-bit of information

i don't need to babysit the game, or people, when i have something to say, i will, furthermore, i have, the things that i do have a problem with i speak up, and right now, i have a problem on the joey wagon, after interaction with him i feel more joey is joey and that T-block is pushing something way too hard, especially for joey, however, i see the scumminess in joey, but i just don't see the threat.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

>implying i have to respond to every little tid-bit of information

i don't need to babysit the game, or people, when i have something to say, i will, furthermore, i have, the things that i do have a problem with i speak up, and right now, i have a problem on the joey wagon, after interaction with him i feel more joey is joey and that T-block is pushing something way too hard, especially for joey, however, i see the scumminess in joey, but i just don't see the threat.

I'm not asking you to babysit the players. Hell, I'm not even asking you to respond to every little thing. All I want is significant content, which is something I have not gotten a lot of from you, and none of it is really genuine scum reads. Once again, you sit around and townhunt and I don't want that. I don't care if you think a player is townie, especially since you seem somewhat conflicted in this read.

 

[Dooms]

Your main and strongest attack on me T-block is that I should know better than to think that Ryker is scummy for the stuff he is doing since its Ryker. Is that not meta? -shrug-

Not responding to anything else because apparently Moemon makes me think better about Mafia while I'm grinding and I kinda realized that I was completly wrong and that i just think Ryker is scum in every game ever. .-.! Gonna have to re-read tomorrow if I'm not lynched but whatever.

 

[Raziek]

Immediately uncomfortable that Joey assumes he'd be lynched when the deadline is 9 days away, and there's not that much support for his wagon at the moment.

*raises eyebrow*

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm not asking you to babysit the players. Hell, I'm not even asking you to respond to every little thing. All I want is significant content, which is something I have not gotten a lot of from you, and none of it is really genuine scum reads. Once again, you sit around and townhunt and I don't want that. I don't care if you think a player is townie, especially since you seem somewhat conflicted in this read.

I am quite conflicted with the Joey thing, but i like to have a full understanding of a situation rather then just mull it, if you get what i mean.

I think i understand what you are saying with signifcant content, i'm wishy-washy with things and you just want a firm read, correct?

and i guess that's what you mean with genuine scum reads, aslo.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Basically Soup:

do things of importance.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Basically Soup:

do things of importance.

Excuse my ignorance but i just don't see why i'm not doing anything important, i don't know what you really mean by this, yes, this sounds like a weird question, but tell me why you always feel i'm not doing anything important almost every game, it's been bothering me, is there something wrong with how i play?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

In a word, yes. In more words, you start every game slow and I'm not writing passes for it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

In a word, yes. In more words, you start every game slow and I'm not writing passes for it.

if your only reason for having me scummy is the way i play, then i don't like it, so what if i start slow? i don't like being gun-ho until i feel really strong about it, if you've got a problem with it, then deal with it.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Nah .

 

[T-block]

That's kinda sad, Joey. Do you really have to resort to misrepresenting me to defend?

LOL. Call it me having personality I guess. Are you trying to use THAT against me? Because that might be considered reaching O_O!

I never made any indication that I was going to push based on it. This pre-emptive defense is completely unnecessary.

Sure. Are you implying that it should be a town tell? ._.'!

No, I'm implying it should be null, as so many others have said already.

What was the purpose of lying in Melee? Oh yeah, to draw night kills towards the VT! Thats right! Oh wait, thats not the case here at all. Different situations. Different lying. Meta doesn't excuse it until he gives his purpose (which he should asap, since the gambit failed and he's being called suspicious for it). Sorry. Try again? :3c

So you admit that lying can be a good course of action for town. You're just caught up in the reasoning behind the lying. As Boat said, this contradicts what you said earlier about lying always being a scum tell. Almost as if you had to say that to make your case against Boat seem stronger, isn't it?

He has yet to provide any reasoning behind the gambit, so why shouldn't I assume that there is none? All he did was try it, and ***** at Raziek when it didn't work o-o! He probably would because its Ryker and he'd probably get defended if he was called out for the gambit, since he always does them. We don't have a reason with us, yet you expect us to work like we do. I will assume there is no reason until we're given one. You're also assuming that my read on him won't change when he explains what he did. Sure, I'll still go after him if I don't like the reasons behind it, but if he can give good reasons for pulling that gambit, then my vote will probably be off of him just like that. It would make his post before the gambit better, and it would explain why he got mad at Raziek for ruining it. ._.'! You really need to learn how I play. Especially when we get down lower and you defend Ryker with nothing but meta O_O!

Let me rephrase. Why WOULD you assume there is none? You see something occur and you can't figure out the reason behind it, so you assume there is no reasoning, rather than that there's a reasoning you're not aware of. Does that make any sense to you?

I don't care about whether your read on him will change. My focus is on your push, and now on your defense.

Let me explain this clearly so you'll stop *****ing about it.

Hey! Ryker did a gambit! Oh hey, its a really bad gambit, with no town like intentions, since he's lying about the rules, and confusing the town, player its directed towards, and the mod! Lets vote him for it since its early in the day and theres not much to go on in general besides RVS and a posting restriction. Now that its ruined, hes probably going to explain why he did it asap!

Oh, hey! WL jumped on a really bull**** wagon, and when asked about it, he defending it really badly! Thats more scummy than a gambit! Lets move my vote! Cool!

Look! WL's play started getting better, and Ryker still hasn't explained why he gambited. Lets move my vote back!

Oh, I was asked for reasons besides the gambit! Maybe theres something else. I'll go look and see if theres anything else. Oh! The posts before and after his gambit look really bad as well when put together with the original gambit. The attack on LAK looks awful, and it looks like Ryker is trying to paint Raziek as scum. This is definetly enough to keep my vote on him and now I have an answer for T-block! Cool!

Thats pretty much how it went. Any questions?

Nope - that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

*****. Please. Not catching something you implied is scummy? :x. Thanks for teaching me how to play this game all over again.

Oh please, that is NOT what I said. This reads like an underhanded attempt to undermine my credibility.

Oh. Did I do that? :3. Sure, when I'm given more to work with than a gambit, my thought process in the game will probably change. Sorry to disappoint you?

I'm saying it's odd that you only came up with the other points after I asked you about it. It's not the change itself... it's the timing of it.

Oh. Okay. So you avoid what I'm saying by pointing out a contradiction. That doesn't change the fact that I never said the first post was painting LAK as scum, either. Where are you getting at with this? o_O'!

NO. I am NOT avoiding what you are saying by pointing out the contradiction. I am pointing out the contradiction, and THEN addressing your point -_-

LOL. You're defending Ryker by calling it textbook Ryker, and call me scummy for not playing to his meta? I think I've played two games with Ryker alone. Neither of which I remember well at all (Wasn't he a hydra in melee? Bingo as well(which I wasn't really playing in)?). Don't act like I know his meta perfectly or some **** and use that against me. And no. It still looks like an attempt to paint Raziek as scum, even with the meta I do have from his play.

Two games is more than enough to know that 65 and 88 are not attempts to paint scum. Are you really going to try to say otherwise?

 

[Dooms]

Unvote

I forgot to do it in my last post. Sorry lol.

Since T-block seems like hes pretty mad, I'm gonna respond to him.

That's kinda sad, Joey. Do you really have to resort to misrepresenting me to defend?

More like misunderstanding since I don't find you scummy ._.'!

I never made any indication that I was going to push based on it. This pre-emptive defense is completely unnecessary.

Welp. Thats what I get for asking a question...

No, I'm implying it should be null, as so many others have said already.

Oh okay.

So you admit that lying can be a good course of action for town. You're just caught up in the reasoning behind the lying. As Boat said, this contradicts what you said earlier about lying always being a scum tell. Almost as if you had to say that to make your case against Boat seem stronger, isn't it?

Sure. :3!

Let me rephrase. Why WOULD you assume there is none? You see something occur and you can't figure out the reason behind it, so you assume there is no reasoning, rather than that there's a reasoning you're not aware of. Does that make any sense to you?

I don't care about whether your read on him will change. My focus is on your push, and now on your defense.

Wow I'm probably need to stop defending myself because you seem pretty mad ._.! I know my push on him was wrong, but I don't think someone should get this mad over it. :3.

I see the reasoning behind it now, which is why I'm not pushing for him anymore.

Nope - that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

Yw! ^^

Oh please, that is NOT what I said. This reads like an underhanded attempt to undermine my credibility.

Now THIS looks like reaching. "It doesn't make you scum by itself, but it is certainly convenient that you didn't catch it." makes me feel that you think its scummy that I missed something you implied, and the fact that you're defending against it with stuff like this looks like you're trying to reach, as if your attack on me wasn't good enough already. But -shrug-.

I'm saying it's odd that you only came up with the other points after I asked you about it. It's not the change itself... it's the timing of it.

Oh. Okay.

NO. I am NOT avoiding what you are saying by pointing out the contradiction. I am pointing out the contradiction, and THEN addressing your point -_-

Yeah, it looked like what I said was the case when I was responding, since I didn't really read the original post first lol. Sorry mah bad :3c!

Two games is more than enough to know that 65 and 88 are not attempts to paint scum. Are you really going to try to say otherwise?

And then you're mad at me for not using meta against Ryker again. Yes, actually, I am, since at the time it looked like an attempt to paint Raziek as scum and you didn't change that at all in your attempts to try and make people realize that I know more about Ryker than I really do. This really looks like you're reaching by the way, its one of two really obvious problem I see in your attack, and if I were to call you scummy reaching would be the main reason. Please try to base your attacks on me with stuff that you're certain about. Not this bull****.

 

[T-block]

Nah I'm not mad.

Probs gonna drop this case for a bit and look at others.

 

[Raziek]

Finished Episode 1.

I know what I'm doing for most of tomorrow. :D

 

[T-block]

Wow Raziek has Boat at the top of his town list now o.o

Reasoning?

 

[T-block]

i don't need to babysit the game, or people, when i have something to say, i will, furthermore, i have, the things that i do have a problem with i speak up, and right now, i have a problem on the joey wagon, after interaction with him i feel more joey is joey and that T-block is pushing something way too hard, especially for joey, however, i see the scumminess in joey, but i just don't see the threat.

lol whaaaaaaaat

So Joey is null to you?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Votecount 1.2 [7/13]

Soupamario [1] - WL
Glyph [0]
Zen [0]
Boatchouli (Ryker/Moth) [0]
asianaussie [0]
Lovably Adorable Kanine (RR/Ranmaru) [0]
Gova [0]
JTB [2] - Soup, LAK
WashedLaundry [0]
T-block [0]
Raziek [0]
X1-12 [0]
JO_Oey [2] - Boat, TBLOCK

Not Voting [8] - JTB, Glyph, Zen, Joey, asianaussie, Gova, Raziek, X1-12

asianaussie has contacted me that he will be V/LA until friday
X1-12 has contacted me that he will be V/LA until friday

Deadline has been set to July 15th at 11:59 PM EST!

 

[Dooms]

If thats the case then isn't X1 V/LA until Monday? I thought that was when the concert thing ended ._.!

 

[Raziek]

Wow Raziek has Boat at the top of his town list now o.o

Reasoning?

He gave sufficient legitimate reasoning for his gambit, which I agreed with.

He's also now actually posting, particularly regarding the Joey issue, which is currently our main focus.

I will also add, however, that I did not sort my lists from strongest to weakest. Think of it more as a Town "Pile" rather than a list.

 

[T-block]

Just out of curiosity, wasn't his reasoning a little... obvious? I'm still a little surprised at basically everyone saying "wtf ryker why u do dis". You really had no idea what he could be getting at?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

lol whaaaaaaaat

So Joey is null to you?

No, null-leaning town.

 

[T-block]

null leaning town. you acknowledge that he has done some scummy things, but you think they are just bad town play rather than play with scum motivations, right?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

that's what i'm saying isn't it?

 

[Raziek]

Just out of curiosity, wasn't his reasoning a little... obvious? I'm still a little surprised at basically everyone saying "wtf ryker why u do dis". You really had no idea what he could be getting at?

Read the exchange again, T-Block. I had interpreted it as an attempt to frame LAK as scum by confusing him. I thought he was fishing for a guilty.

As he has stated, he was in fact fishing for a clear.

My scum read on him was because I had not seen any pro-town benefit from his actions. Yes, to others it may have been more obvious, but at the time I didn't see it.

 

[T-block]

@soup: just making sure

@raziek: kay

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

My thoughts:

• The Boat gambit was ok. (After reading what his motivation was afterwards)
• Joey seems to be fighting for what he believes is right, even tho he may not be. Null.
• Raziek is sidelining a little, which is null leaning scummy. Him asking for flavour is null. I also think his reason for interrupting Boat's gambit was bad. I got my eye on you, you are eye candy.
• X1 hasn't commented on recent events. I do like that he brought up the point about the Soup lynch, which I really disliked from Tblok.
• JTB was right wrt his #81. Yet it doesn't make Raz scum.
• I think Tblok may be wrong about Joey.

Joey, sweety, I know you think Boat was scummy for attacking us with a lie, and I thought it was really dumb at first and my first thought was "Is the mod screwing us over with some totally lol uphill battle that we'd have to work some overtime to get to the top?" but I went and read the rules to make sure and thus found out it was just a gambit. It has done no harm.

Questions:

@Boat: Honey, Tell me why Joey is scum in one sentence, with three reasons. Does it line up with his usual play?
@T-Blok: Honey, Tell me why Joey is scum in one sentence, with three reasons. Does it line up with his usual play?
@Joey: Do you really think Boat can be scum, after he explained his motives? Who else do you think is scum?
@Razzie: Baby, tell me, so your tells are sidelining mostly, how do X1, JTB, and Soup benefit from sidelining as scum? (all at the same time) Why haven't you asked them any questions?
@X1: What are your thoughts on recent events? Also give a stance or two sweetums.

Activity:

2. Glyph
3. Zen
4. Boatchouli (Ryker/Moth)
5. asianaussie
7. Gova
12. X1-12

Some of these haven't even posted yet. I would like to hear from these people ASAP.

[snip]

I don't think Glyph and AA have even posted yet, and while I believe Zen is V/LA, I still want to hear some opinions from everyone on this list.

QFT.

 

[Gova]

So like, what's the hot topic right now? I'm reading from the beginning but I don't want to lose track of what's happening right now.

 

[T-block]

Things have been sorta dead recently. In the past few posts...

Raziek was on Boat for a gambit. Boat gave reasoning and now Raziek is fine with him.
I've been going back and forth with Joey with a case on him.
WL and Soup have had some back and forth.

 

[T-block]

Hey LAK, what's the punishment for breaking your posting restriction?

Answer this?

Joey is scum for being inconsistent in his behaviour towards Boat, which suggests scum motivation for his attack, and for his subsequent defense, which exposes more inconsistencies and towards the end resorts to misrepresenting the case against him in an attempt to undermine the attacker.

I've only played one game with Joey IIRC (Pizza), and in that game he was town attempting to play scummy, so I'm not giving meta any weight in this case.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Sorry, honey. I asked the Mod for clarification over PM, and still didn't get an answer.

Thank you! :3 Inconsistent? Do you mean how he said the gambit was null and then jumped on Boat? (I think this was what he said, I'll go and look again k? )

Oh ok, I see. He did it on purpose? :o

@Mod: Sweety, what is my punishment for breaking my posting restriction?

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Raz baby I saw you viewing, please respond to me I miss you. ;-;

@Tblock: I meant that Joey said Boat wasn't scum for the gambit, but then voted him for lying. Is this why you think he is scum? :3

 

[T-block]

Can you just read this post? x.x

159

 

[Raziek]

I was just looking in, since I was about to head to bed, but alright, just for you.

Regarding my reads on JTB, X1 and Soup sidelining.

X1 hasn't actually contributed anything relevant, which is my main problem with him. Unfortunately, V/LA will do that.

Soup is a lesser read, but my issues are very much those that WL has been harassing him about.

JTB is my strongest scum read right now. He's here, he's around, but he hasn't really contributed ANYTHING outside of starting my wagon over flavour, then unvoting it after it collapsed. Feels like some scummy blending, IMO.

Actually, sure.

vote: JTB

Also, I have asked them questions. More specifically, I asked them to weigh in on T-Block vs. Joey.

Right now I'm annoyed about the amount of players who are V/LA, but I can't do anything about that. Plenty of time to question them before the deadline rolls around.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Aww thank you Raz! :3

Ok, thank you for clarifying. X1 I would give the benefit of the doubt, since he hasn't really warmed up to the thread just yet.

Jtb I think you might have a good point on. I would like more from him regardless.

WL and Soup, I find to be T v T or T v S in worst case scenario, but I don't see scumminess from Soup yet. Basically from what I know of, WL wouldn't really complain about Soup if Wl was scum. Here his concern seems genuine to me.

Now Soup, I see a better play from him. I like his thought process, and he challenge's people's thoughts like Joeys. He has given reads too which I like.

@Tblock: Thanks hunny, most of your points I disagree with, and some I can agree with such as the not providing evidence prior... But I think you should know that Joey applies possibilities to people who he thinks are scummy, before actually judging their actions to have been that possibility.

Here is a quote babe:

Do you know how easy it is to get bad stances from a wagon in RVS? Scum can easily manipulate a wagon on them early game because they KNOW they're not going to get lynched for it since its so early. Trying to wagon on page 2 isn't going to help at all. I'm not saying you're scum for wagoning specifically, and wagoning is not a scum tactic as a whole. However, wagoning really early in the game doesn't help town in any way, shape, or form, since scum can abuse it REALLY easily.

For example: I'm scum. You wagon me Page 2 like you did swords. I get 3 votes on me. For the sake of anything, I'll say that it's Ryker, July, and Red Ryu in that order. 9 person game. Since it's so early, all I have to say is that "Red Ryu jumped on my wagon without any reasons and put me at L-2, so that makes him scummy. I also don't like *insert player here* because they have yet to post content" and bam, you're pretty much off of me unless I have posted any legit scum tells so far.

@ "that doesn't mean I was doing that": But I think you're scum and they line up, so maybe I think that you were, especially since thats exactly what it looked like.

And he was town there. He sees me in a scummy tunnel, and therefore would think whatever I would do to be a SCUM action instead of a possible anti town action. This is why I ask him to clarify his Boat stance and to see who else he thinks is scummy teehee.

 

[JTB]

ill get in this game tomorrow

 

[asianaussie]

was skiing

forgot to tell everyone about V/LA (i told kuz in a pm but forgot to publicly announce since im stupid)

will post tomorrow/day after

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

V/LA for a couple days until I'm not sick.

Anyway, last night there was a power blink and my router fried. I'm V/LA, probably till tomorrow, until my router gets replaced. This combined with Moth's V/LA means Boatchouli will be V/LA until one of us gets back. No biggie, but a head's up.

Copypasta.

 

[Raziek]

Having just finished Episode 9, willing to buy Boat's Nia claim even more now.

*continues watching*