Gurren Lagann Mafia - Game Over - Who Lost the Most?

[T-block]

Oh... he was referring to this:

Didn't even notice T-block agree'd like that ._.! Explain please?

 

[Dooms]

You don't need to respond to everything in the post... I like to provide context and background in my cases. Not every paragraph is a point that needs to be addressed individually.

Sucks for you then because I'm going to do it anyways :3c!

Why do you care about distraction to the mod?

LOL. Call it me having personality I guess. Are you trying to use THAT against me? Because that might be considered reaching O_O!

But more importantly, let's get to your policy on lying. You continue to maintain that Boat is scummy for lying, so let me ask you this: if a player is known for lying even as town, is lying still a scum tell for said person?

Sure. Are you implying that it should be a town tell? ._.'!

Never mind the basic principle of whether town should lie. You know that Ryker has done this kind of stuff as town. You were in Melee Tournament, where he lied about being a Princess. Given that, why are you continuing to push that Boat is scum because he lied?

What was the purpose of lying in Melee? Oh yeah, to draw night kills towards the VT! Thats right! Oh wait, thats not the case here at all. Different situations. Different lying. Meta doesn't excuse it until he gives his purpose (which he should asap, since the gambit failed and he's being called suspicious for it). Sorry. Try again? :3c

You don't KNOW that the gambit had no reasoning behind it. Let me put it this way, at the risk of adding WIFOM: even if Ryker were scum, and his only goal were to distract town, would he really do it in such a way? There's OBVIOUSLY a reason behind it, real or fake. You don't ask for it - you instead assume that there is none (which, as I've said, is a terrible assumption) and use it to push the idea of him as scum.

He has yet to provide any reasoning behind the gambit, so why shouldn't I assume that there is none? All he did was try it, and ***** at Raziek when it didn't work o-o! He probably would because its Ryker and he'd probably get defended if he was called out for the gambit, since he always does them. We don't have a reason with us, yet you expect us to work like we do. I will assume there is no reason until we're given one. You're also assuming that my read on him won't change when he explains what he did. Sure, I'll still go after him if I don't like the reasons behind it, but if he can give good reasons for pulling that gambit, then my vote will probably be off of him just like that. It would make his post before the gambit better, and it would explain why he got mad at Raziek for ruining it. ._.'! You really need to learn how I play. Especially when we get down lower and you defend Ryker with nothing but meta O_O!

Again, just context.

So you're saying that it was only when I asked that question that you realized you needed more than just the gambit to justify a vote on Boat. That got you thinking, and you saw 65 and 88, and realized that Boat actually had done other scummy things, so still deserves the scum read. Is that right? Please correct anything that is wrong.

Let me explain this clearly so you'll stop *****ing about it.

Hey! Ryker did a gambit! Oh hey, its a really bad gambit, with no town like intentions, since he's lying about the rules, and confusing the town, player its directed towards, and the mod! Lets vote him for it since its early in the day and theres not much to go on in general besides RVS and a posting restriction. Now that its ruined, hes probably going to explain why he did it asap!

Oh, hey! WL jumped on a really bull**** wagon, and when asked about it, he defending it really badly! Thats more scummy than a gambit! Lets move my vote! Cool!

Look! WL's play started getting better, and Ryker still hasn't explained why he gambited. Lets move my vote back!

Oh, I was asked for reasons besides the gambit! Maybe theres something else. I'll go look and see if theres anything else. Oh! The posts before and after his gambit look really bad as well when put together with the original gambit. The attack on LAK looks awful, and it looks like Ryker is trying to paint Raziek as scum. This is definetly enough to keep my vote on him and now I have an answer for T-block! Cool!

Thats pretty much how it went. Any questions?

It doesn't make you scum by itself, but it is certainly convenient that you didn't catch it.

*****. Please. Not catching something you implied is scummy? :x. Thanks for teaching me how to play this game all over again.

I was drawing attention to the fact that you moved from "This gambit was in no way townie at all" to "Nope. Not that alone, at least", and did so after you were confronted about it. I suppose it's not so much backing down as it is that your original case on Boat was unsubstantial.

Oh. Did I do that? :3. Sure, when I'm given more to work with than a gambit, my thought process in the game will probably change. Sorry to disappoint you?

Even in this paragraph there's a contradiction:

"If they weren't attempts to paint the players as scum, then what were they?"
"By the way, not both posts were used to paint the player as scum"

Oh. Okay. So you avoid what I'm saying by pointing out a contradiction. That doesn't change the fact that I never said the first post was painting LAK as scum, either. Where are you getting at with this? o_O'!

Yeah, the points are weak. 65 is a part of the gambit. 88 is just... textbook Ryker. You've played more games with him than I have - you should know that kind of thing coming from Ryker is not necessarily an attempt to paint someone as scum.

LOL. You're defending Ryker by calling it textbook Ryker, and call me scummy for not playing to his meta? I think I've played two games with Ryker alone. Neither of which I remember well at all (Wasn't he a hydra in melee? Bingo as well(which I wasn't really playing in)?). Don't act like I know his meta perfectly or some **** and use that against me. And no. It still looks like an attempt to paint Raziek as scum, even with the meta I do have from his play.

And yeah, cut the AtE. It's annoying.

*****. Please. I'll AtE when I feel the need to AtE and you're not gonna do **** about it :x.

Vote is going to stay here.

Cool. :3! Your vote will keep my Pichu company!

 

[Dooms]

Asking you to explain something equals following? Doubt it. Especially when everything else he was talking about involved voting or showing suspicions upon the player.

Plus the fact that I never followed Raziek in the first place = LOL. :3

Try to defend him more? :D!

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Lying is a null tell? What? What? No seriously. I disagree and I refuse to accept lying as just a null tell. Sorry :3c!

I said it's situational.

It's not like I'm the only person that knows I over-exaggerate things or something like that. Why can't I state something if multiple people know me for it? o_O'.

Because it's trying to write a pass for continued bad play. And I don't care for it.

I don't see why I have to ask him why he did that if its obvious he's going to have to explain why to save his ***. Its not like you made me change my mind on this or anything ._.'!

There's such a thing as jumping the gun. Watch Soup play, he does it all the time. This is another of those instances. He made a gambit and, instead of letting it play out and actually getting a reaction out of the *****, you just wrote it off as scummy. Instead of waiting for him to put down his motive, you jumped the gun and labeled the action as scummy. How do you know the intent was scummy? How do you know what he was trying to do was painting the ***** and Raziek as scum? If he was, wouldn't his vote have been on one of them?

I knew it was AtE, and I honestly don't care. Lynch me for it. It would make my day C:!

See, following it up with taunts isn't really validating it. "It's bad, I know it's bad, I don't care it's bad, lynch me for it." If you weren't actually giving me anything useful, I would be pushing your lynch right now.

>.<! Wrong! Raziek didn't follow my boat vote. Like he said, our posts were at the EXACT same time, and I ninja'd him so hard. It was really funny, actually haha.

I'll just use this opportunity because I saw you two had like ten ****ing posts between the two of you *****ing that I made the possible connection to say I'm probably wrong on the following thing. You two do share a lot of ideas this game, but I'll leave it be.

 

[Dooms]

I said it's situational.

Okay I'll admit I missed that. XD! Cool.

Because it's trying to write a pass for continued bad play. And I don't care for it.

My self meta? I don't think of over-exaggeration as bad play. I think of it as how I play ._.'! Think of it as you want though. I doubt its going to change any time soon lol.

There's such a thing as jumping the gun. Watch Soup play, he does it all the time. This is another of those instances. He made a gambit and, instead of letting it play out and actually getting a reaction out of the *****, you just wrote it off as scummy. Instead of waiting for him to put down his motive, you jumped the gun and labeled the action as scummy. How do you know the intent was scummy? How do you know what he was trying to do was painting the ***** and Raziek as scum? If he was, wouldn't his vote have been on one of them?

The questions he asked Raziek made me feel that he was trying to paint him as scum. ._.'! His gambit failed, and he has yet to explain why he did what he did. From the looks of it, all he did was yell at LAK saying "YOU DONT HAVE A POSTING RESTRICTION!", pull a gambit trying to get him to stop having a posting restriction, and then got mad at Raziek when he ruined the really bad and obvious gambit. Until he explains why he did what he did, thats what I'm going to assume is the case, and it looks really bad. Sorry :3c!

See, following it up with taunts isn't really validating it. "It's bad, I know it's bad, I don't care it's bad, lynch me for it." If you weren't actually giving me anything useful, I would be pushing your lynch right now.

Okay.

That doesn't change how I feel about it or anything though. If they want to get me lynched for that AtE, or for over-exaggerating things, then I really don't care at all lol.

I'll just use this opportunity because I saw you two had like ten ****ing posts between the two of you *****ing that I made the possible connection to say I'm probably wrong on the following thing. You two do share a lot of ideas this game, but I'll leave it be.

Oh okay. O_O!

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

None of you all make me see how lying is pro-town at all ._.! Townies lie, sure, but that doesn't mean its a null tell, and that doesn't mean they SHOULD lie. Taking lying as a null tell promotes more lying, which is scummy in general. Sorry but nyope.

Where the **** did we ever say lying was pro-town? We just insinuated it isn't always antitown. Doctors can and should lie if they can't stay quiet. Someone brought up the princess claim from Melee, that was a fine bit of lying there. You say it's antitown for him to lie but instead of actually seeing what he's doing with it (i.e., let his actions make him incapable of lying), you jump the gun and incriminate him for something you can't directly tell is antitown. Broto can and will lie. It's a null point until you have knowledge or solid evidence that he's doing something bad with it. You don't have that evidence.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

My self meta? I don't think of over-exaggeration as bad play. I think of it as how I play ._.'! Think of it as you want though. I doubt its going to change any time soon lol.

Considering TBro has a case on you with points against you for over-exaggeration, welp.

The questions he asked Raziek made me feel that he was trying to paint him as scum. ._.'! His gambit failed, and he has yet to explain why he did what he did. From the looks of it, all he did was yell at LAK saying "YOU DONT HAVE A POSTING RESTRICTION!", pull a gambit trying to get him to stop having a posting restriction, and then got mad at Raziek when he ruined the really bad and obvious gambit. Until he explains why he did what he did, thats what I'm going to assume is the case, and it looks really bad. Sorry :3c!

Here's the thing: we're asking you essentially the same question as he asked Raziek, or grilling you about it. We're asking you why you jumped the gun. He asked Raziek why he jumped the gun.

How do you know his gambit was trying to get the ***** to stop having a posting restriction? And if that is the case, how is that anti-town? I'm pretty gogdamn sure that's different than trying to paint them as scum.

 

[Dooms]

Where the **** did we ever say lying was pro-town? We just insinuated it isn't always antitown. Doctors can and should lie if they can't stay quiet. Someone brought up the princess claim from Melee, that was a fine bit of lying there. You say it's antitown for him to lie but instead of actually seeing what he's doing with it (i.e., let his actions make him incapable of lying), you jump the gun and incriminate him for something you can't directly tell is antitown. Broto can and will lie. It's a null point until you have knowledge or solid evidence that he's doing something bad with it. You don't have that evidence.

Oh okay. I guess I'm just supposed to wait then -shrug-.

 

[Raziek]

Due to personal issues I won't be re-reading Soup tonight as I had planned. Will get to it later if I'm able.

 

[Boatchouli]

Haven't read much of anything. You mad?

I saw something about LAL, so you can go burn, Joey. Raziek wanted an explanation about something, so he should restate the question.

TBlock has a case on Joey? Vote Joey Linky linky.

Hey WL, outside of Raziek and Joey and me and TBlock, you got any reads? Preferably scum ones?

 

[Raziek]

@Boat:

You were salty because I interrupted your gambit. I don't feel there was much, if any pro-town result that could have occurred, yet you were angry about it.

I'd like to know why you did such a thing, when a quick read of the rules debunked it. What did Town stand to gain? I understand lying is sometimes warranted, but I see little benefit to it in that scenario.

 

[Boatchouli]

@Boat:

You were salty because I interrupted your gambit. I don't feel there was much, if any pro-town result that could have occurred, yet you were angry about it.

I'd like to know why you did such a thing, when a quick read of the rules debunked it. What did Town stand to gain? I understand lying is sometimes warranted, but I see little benefit to it in that scenario.

You didn't see anything, okay, fine. What did you gain from interrupting me other than trying to stop me from confirming whether or not it was a posting restriction or not? YOU are the one with explaining to do. You held the trump if I was really trying to fool the entire town and when you saw malicious intent, you could've stepped in and gotten me for it when you actually had something to pin me on. Instead, you bust the plan early and stop everything I might could've been trying to do.

So you're turn, why? What could I have been doing that couldn't have been rectified by you outing me for a liar after you could see what I was doing?

 

[Boatchouli]

Seriously guys?

Its like me playing in a smash bros mafia without knowing anything, and asking why that guy is going "Ha-cha! Oh, did I win?" at the end of all of his posts. Asking for something that is obvious to everyone else isn't going to help scum, therefor it isn't a scum tell. Its really that simple.

LAK's flavor was also REALLY obvious, so why are you mad at him for claiming.

I hate Ryker's playstyle, and he can burn in hell for trying this ****, and getting mad at people when they **** it up for him when its really obvious that its not going to work is NOT townie to me at all. Ryker had NO REASON to try a gambit like that, especially since this one could be proven wrong by a simple read through the rules, which makes what hes doing a total waste of towns time. I know he's not dumb as all ****ing hell, so I'm going to assume hes scum. Its definitely enough for me to put my vote on him this early in the game.

Didn't even notice T-block agree'd like that ._.! Explain please?

Let me paraphrase Joey's post, "Null tell, null tell, false statement, I'm gonna assume he's scum."

 

[Raziek]

You didn't see anything, okay, fine. What did you gain from interrupting me other than trying to stop me from confirming whether or not it was a posting restriction or not? YOU are the one with explaining to do. You held the trump if I was really trying to fool the entire town and when you saw malicious intent, you could've stepped in and gotten me for it when you actually had something to pin me on. Instead, you bust the plan early and stop everything I might could've been trying to do.

So you're turn, why? What could I have been doing that couldn't have been rectified by you outing me for a liar after you could see what I was doing?

I explained it earlier, but I'll restate.

My main issue was that I interpreted the lie as an attempt to paint LAK as scummy. Both of those players are known to be frequently mislynched, and to not always be all that.... smart, for lack of a better word. Scum could easily misconstrue confusion as "scum panic" and aim for a mislynch based on that.

I will concede that you are correct in that I probably should have waited to trump you when the time was right. In retrospect, I acted in haste. I made a mistake.

But again, I ask: What were you hoping would happen, exactly? Another player besides myself could have just as easily exposed said gambit (Like, say, Joey?), and Ranmaru immediately asked for mod clarification, so at best I think it was only a waste of Town's time.

If you have a good reason for why you did so, I would like to hear it.

 

[Raziek]

EBWOP: LAK, not Ranmaru. I believe it was Ryu's head.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Hey WL, outside of Raziek and Joey and me and TBlock, you got any reads? Preferably scum ones?

Soup, X1 after him, and starting to lean scum on Joey. Not liking his responses.

 

[Boatchouli]

I was hoping it would clear up whether or not they do have the posting restriction (within a reasonable doubt). If they did, then cool, Leeron is not scum, imo. He's definitely a Spiral. If they don't, then they could be scum faking or town who thought it would be cool, whatever. It's a stupid thing to fake either way.

I was fishing for a clear, not a guilty.

 

[Boatchouli]

EBWOP: Their initial reaction to it leads me to believe that they do indeed possess the posting restriction.

 

[Raziek]

I was hoping it would clear up whether or not they do have the posting restriction (within a reasonable doubt). If they did, then cool, Leeron is not scum, imo. He's definitely a Spiral. If they don't, then they could be scum faking or town who thought it would be cool, whatever. It's a stupid thing to fake either way.

I was fishing for a clear, not a guilty.

Alright, thanks for the response.

unvote

Going to require a re-read to decide what I want to look at now.

 

[Boatchouli]

Oh... Okay.

Honestly, I don't care if you think that way. This gambit was in no way townie at all, and because of that hes the second most scummy player this game. I'm not going to let meta tells change that.

How dense are you? What in the hell does SCUM gain from what I did?

 

[Boatchouli]

Is boat scum for the gambit?

Nope. Not that alone, at least, which is why my vote was moved so easily.

Really? That's contradictory to EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID ALL GAME! This is all you've got and you're saying there's more.

why would a townie make up such a big lie like that? It could be proven wrong EXTREMELY easily, and it held NO purpose at all except getting LAK confused with his role and making him ask the mod stuff in private, which is just a HUGE distraction to LAK and this game as a whole. The fact that he could even try to call him scummy through that (which was probably the point of that based on how he talked about LAK before the gambit and in the post of the gambit) is simply mind-blowing to me. The gambit had NO value whatsoever, and the fact that he actually got mad at someone for pointing out the REALLY obvious is simply ******** and I think he's scummy for this whole thing.

why would a scummy make up such a big lie like that? It could be proven wrong EXTREMELY easily, and the only real forseeable outcome was to give us a better idea of whether or not the posting restriction existed. The fact that he could even try to call him scummy through that makes perfect sense when you realize the reasoning for the accusation. The gambit held only protown value, and the fact that he actually got mad at someone for pointing out the REALLY obvious with no good town aligned reason is mind blowing. I think he's town for this whole thing.

 

[Boatchouli]

@Broto: How is The ***** coming in and posting in a restriction, real or fake be damned, WIFOM?

I think he's town for it. Reasons explained above. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[Boatchouli]

why would a scummy make up such a big lie like that? It could be proven wrong EXTREMELY easily, and the only real forseeable outcome was to give us a better idea of whether or not the posting restriction existed. The fact that he could even try to call him scummy through that makes perfect sense when you realize the reasoning for the accusation. The gambit held only protown value, and the fact that he actually got mad at someone for pointing out the REALLY obvious with no good town aligned reason is mind blowing. I think he's town for this whole thing.

 

[Boatchouli]

...I thought I posted this, but whatever.

Yeah, you're pretty much right WL.

Unvote

I think JTB is scummy because of the way he was attacking Raziek like that. That may be a personality issue, since he was really harsh with it and that may be bothering me, but whatever.

I'm going to rethink my reads through this game, since WL is making me feel better about him. Going to leave my vote on Boatchouli until I'm done, since he's probably going to stay where he is read wise since he hasn't done anything recently.

Vote: Boatchouli

Miller claim is null. Honestly, I don't believe it at all, but its null.

Because JTB read may be a personality thing, but Boatchouli isn't.

 

[Boatchouli]

Hi Ryker .

 

[Boatchouli]

case on Joey

I like that. Lines up with what I'm thinking.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup, X1 after him, and starting to lean scum on Joey. Not liking his responses.

i'm gonna be you for a minute.

"you didn't explain your read, you're not doing anything, scum."

so, have at it.

 

[Boatchouli]

The words "I'm fine to stick with soup toDay" In no way implies that you're going to change, yet you later change your mind. This is an inconsistency.

Do you have a problem with the reasoning for his change of vote, or just the contradiction that he's no longer pushing a Soup lynch today.

And please don't tell me you're trying to put a snake in WL's boot for voting Marshy.

I don't like you. At all. You're reads are in all the wrong places.

 

[Boatchouli]

FoS X1

It's the first time in my life I was thinking about using an FoS, but I stopped myself because FoS's are stupid.

 

[Boatchouli]

It's the first time in my life I was thinking about using an FoS, but I stopped myself because FoS's are stupid.

Which is why I'm going to do it for you.

FOS: X1-12

 

[Boatchouli]

Lying is a null tell? What? What? No seriously. I disagree and I refuse to accept lying as just a null tell.

In Kittens vs. Domo, Zen claimed cop when he was miller (he never claimed miller). J saw the town benefit for Zen to put his face out there and didn't CC and get him lynched although he KNEW he was lying.

Dissidia, DatHydra lied about who they had a watch guilty on so that they could get further information before revealing who they really did have a bingo on.

Melee Mafia, Gord lied about his role abilities about three different times and it allowed him to live into end game with the most retardedly strong PR I've ever seen.

Go to hell.

Lying in and of itself is a null tell. You have to examine the motivation behind it and figure out whether the intent was town or scum and why. Stop poisoning the waterhole.

 

[Raziek]

Ok, did a quick re-read. Reads:

Town:
Boat
LAK (via flavour, needs moar content)
WL

Null:
T-Block (Leaning slight Town)
Joey (Unsure. Case on him is based mostly on meta, and while he's rather scatterbrained, it doesn't feel malicious to me)

Where the **** are you?
Zen (acknowledged V/LA)
Gova
Asianaussie (Hasn't even posted?)
Glyph (Hasn't posted?)

Scum reads right now are only slight, but are JTB, X1, Soup.

X1 hasn't given any actual content beyond silly **** regarding the Marshy stuff.

JTB and Soup have been side-lining pretty hard, and I still don't really like JTB's push on me, though it achieved its goal of getting us out of RVS.

Not confident enough for a vote on any of them, but I want some content from them soon.

@JTB, Soup, X1: What is your opinion on Joey? Do you believe T-Block/WL's combined case has merit, or is it just Joey being Joey?

 

[Boatchouli]

EWBOP: I've been misinformed, Zen wasn't a miller. Just a VT.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

i'm gonna be you for a minute.

"you didn't explain your read, you're not doing anything, scum."

so, have at it.

Nah, Raziek pretty much hit it on the head. You've been pretty hardcore on the sidelines, and I haven't seen much in the way of content. You're not giving me anything and when you are posting it, at least half of it has been fluff.

 

[Boatchouli]

What was the purpose of lying in Melee? Oh yeah, to draw night kills towards the VT! Thats right! Oh wait, thats not the case here at all. Different situations. Different lying. Meta doesn't excuse it until he gives his purpose (which he should asap, since the gambit failed and he's being called suspicious for it). Sorry. Try again? :3c

You contradict yourself. Your previous post implies that all lying is a scum tell and that examining each case isn't necessary, yet here you say it's different in every scenario which means,

the action itself is a null tell.

 

[Raziek]

****, can't believe I forgot this.

Hey LAK, what's the punishment for breaking your posting restriction?

T-Block why the random fish for the restriction punishment? What does Town gain by knowing this?

FoS: T-Block

 

[Boatchouli]

@Raziek - Don't go hurting yourself there. I can think of what town can gain by knowing it and you can too with a couple seconds. What does scum gain over town by knowing it?

Also, what is your opinion on X1?

 

[T-block]

^

I don't see how it would help scum to know. Why so quick to FoS? Explain the scum motivation behind it.

Case on Joey is not all meta, and you should not dismiss it as such. It's exposing scum motivations behind his play. Go back an re-read?

 

[Raziek]

@Raziek - Don't go hurting yourself there. I can think of what town can gain by knowing it and you can too with a couple seconds. What does scum gain over town by knowing it?

*Thinks*
Ah, got it. *facepalm* That was a bit dumb of me.

Also, what is your opinion on X1?

Not happy with the fact that he's posted only regarding unimportant things, which is why I've asked for his opinion on more current matters, like the Joey case.

 

[Raziek]

@T-Block: I didn't say it was only meta, but I'll read it again for good measure.