Gurren Lagann Mafia - Game Over - Who Lost the Most?

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'mma let T-Block get to it but Joey's #163 is garbage. Self-meta, AtE, and misconstruing a null tell as a scum tell all in one post made him look a lot worse in my eyes.

i really want to just read it as regular joey, washed, but go deeper into this for me.

 

[T-block]

About to be pulled into a 1.5 hour meeting, so that post will have to wait a little while unfortunately =x

Yo, T-Bro, if you dislike Soup's following of me, what's your thoughts on Joey and Raziek feeding off each other?

Haven't re-read past 150 yet, but I haven't noticed it that much. I've noted that Joey defends Raziek in a way that makes me think scumJoey implies townRaziek. I guess Joey did sorta follow Raziek on the jump onto me and WL, but I didn't think of it as much as I did with Soup because Joey has actually taken initiative to push other things, and because I find him scummy for other reasons. Joey is definitely more guilty of a connection than Raziek is though. Raziek has for the most part, ignored Joey, no?

Don't tell me you're thinking something I considered.

No clue what you considered tbh =)

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Teehee. This makes me scummy? :3

Seriously though. Are you just stating this or...? When I learned how to play mafia, lying was the only scum tell I knew about. Its still probably the biggest turn point from town to scum in my play. Sorry if you find that scummy ._.'!

Misconstruing a null tell as a scum tell (lying is not always scummy, it's conditional and gambit lies are not scummy).

Hi. Nice to meet you. I'm Joey. I'm the person that is known to over-exaggerate things. I like to over-exaggerate. How about you? :3

Self-meta.

Why should I have to ask for reasons when they should be given when you're obviously lying to the town? I don't see a reason why I would have to ask for those reasons. What @ the last sentence?

This alone is trashgarbage. You need motives, you can't kill for just action, especially since the action failed and the motive wasn't that obvious.

Honestly I don't mind being lynched for this lol. It'll teach me to fix it for sure, anyways. Being all over the place and over-exaggerating things are problems I have as a player in any faction, which is why people say "Being Joey" or things like that instead of townie for me. Its part of being bad I guess. That and reacting before my reads are fully developed I guess. Either or.

./AtE :3!

Do I need to say it?

Also just one paragraph in about ten in this post had some good content in it.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Haven't re-read past 150 yet, but I haven't noticed it that much. I've noted that Joey defends Raziek in a way that makes me think scumJoey implies townRaziek. I guess Joey did sorta follow Raziek on the jump onto me and WL, but I didn't think of it as much as I did with Soup because Joey has actually taken initiative to push other things, and because I find him scummy for other reasons. Joey is definitely more guilty of a connection than Raziek is though. Raziek has for the most part, ignored Joey, no?

Joey followed Raziek onto you and I. Raziek followed Joey onto Boat.

No clue what you considered tbh =)

Can't elaborate. Not pro-town.

 

[Raziek]

Oh, I thought you were insinuating he was lying about his miller claim. What's your take on that, actually?

...I thought I posted this, but whatever.

Yeah, you're pretty much right WL.

Unvote

I think JTB is scummy because of the way he was attacking Raziek like that. That may be a personality issue, since he was really harsh with it and that may be bothering me, but whatever.

I'm going to rethink my reads through this game, since WL is making me feel better about him. Going to leave my vote on Boatchouli until I'm done, since he's probably going to stay where he is read wise since he hasn't done anything recently.

Vote: Boatchouli

Miller claim is null. Honestly, I don't believe it at all, but its null.

Wasn't directed at me, but I'm actually feeling a bit more like maybe Boat should die.

I don't like the gambit, and the miller claim is just going to cause some confusion.

unvote

vote: Boatchouli

Yeah, that's fine till we get some answers.

I actually didn't follow Joey onto Boat. These posts occurred at virtually the same time, which is why I said "Wasn't directed at me, but.."

Joey and I followed the same train of thought, but I did not follow Joey. Check the timestamp.

 

[Dooms]

Misconstruing a null tell as a scum tell (lying is not always scummy, it's conditional and gambit lies are not scummy).



Self-meta.

This alone is trashgarbage. You need motives, you can't kill for just action, especially since the action failed and the motive wasn't that obvious.

Do I need to say it?

Also just one paragraph in about ten in this post had some good content in it.

Lying is a null tell? What? What? No seriously. I disagree and I refuse to accept lying as just a null tell. Sorry :3c!

It's not like I'm the only person that knows I over-exaggerate things or something like that. Why can't I state something if multiple people know me for it? o_O'.

I don't see why I have to ask him why he did that if its obvious he's going to have to explain why to save his ***. Its not like you made me change my mind on this or anything ._.'!

I knew it was AtE, and I honestly don't care. Lynch me for it. It would make my day C:!

>.<! Wrong! Raziek didn't follow my boat vote. Like he said, our posts were at the EXACT same time, and I ninja'd him so hard. It was really funny, actually haha.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Wl's 203

i'll wait for joey to respond, but i see what you're seeing, i know you always tell me meta dun work for **** but >:U

 

[T-block]

Lying is null. I know you've been in games where town has lied, and for good reason, Joey. Look at DKR.

You defended Raziek following you. Any response to the allegations of you following Raziek?

 

[Dooms]

Did I ever call T-block scummy? I don't remember me doing so, because I have a town read on him right now O_O! Oh... No, I didn't. That means you're lying, right WL?

Oh. It does. Cool!

Oh wait. Lying isn't a scum tell >:C

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

damn, joey responded.

Lying is a null tell? What? What? No seriously. I disagree and I refuse to accept lying as just a null tell. Sorry :3c!

bad point here. LAL is dumb to follow in some situations.

It's not like I'm the only person that knows I over-exaggerate things or something like that. Why can't I state something if multiple people know me for it? o_O'.

good point here.

I knew it was AtE, and I honestly don't care. Lynch me for it. It would make my day C:!

FUD.

>.<! Wrong! Raziek didn't follow my boat vote. Like he said, our posts were at the EXACT same time, and I ninja'd him so hard. It was really funny, actually haha.

fluff.

Joey what are you trying to gain from all this? what have you really gained from your exaggeration of EVERYTHING on your reads?

 

[Dooms]

None of you all make me see how lying is pro-town at all ._.! Townies lie, sure, but that doesn't mean its a null tell, and that doesn't mean they SHOULD lie. Taking lying as a null tell promotes more lying, which is scummy in general. Sorry but nyope.

I'm following my opinions. If that means I'm following Raziek, then you caught me lol. If my thoughts line up to his, then thats cool. If that makes me scummy, then aw well ._.! No need to defend against my thoughts lining up with another persons.

How is the last response fluff? I was explaining that he wasn't following me o_O'! Welp...

FUD lol. Fear... uncertainty... D ._.! But seriously whats FUD? Forgot @_@!

It's not like I'm exaggerating my reads on purpose. I'm just told that I over-exaggerate a lot... That doesn't mean that I notice it and I change it or that I do it on purpose ._.'! Sorry?

 

[Dooms]

T-Block, I've tried REALLY hard to forget about that game lol. You're going to have to pull specific examples because honestly I don't remember anything in that game at all except that it was really bad ._.'!

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

None of you all make me see how lying is pro-town at all ._.! Townies lie, sure, but that doesn't mean its a null tell, and that doesn't mean they SHOULD lie. Taking lying as a null tell promotes more lying, which is scummy in general. Sorry but nyope.

townies lie, you just said it, but it depends for what reason they are lying, not the fact they are lying, that's why i said LAL is good in some situations.

Well, glad you respect yourself.

it just was fluff, we all saw you were following.

Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt, you try to put fear into people by saying you're not afraid to be mislynched, uncertainty for that fact that you are fine with being mislynched to make some sorta point, and doubt for the fact it's moot.

Just not a thing you need to do, if you feel the need to spice things up then go ahead, just extremely bothering.

 

[Dooms]

...Wait. I'm lost.

That point was at him following me. We posted at the exact same time (literally, check the post times), and they were both average sized posts that couldn't be typed up just like that. >.<! He didn't follow my vote on Boat.

I'm just saying that I don't care if I'm lynched for AtE or over exaggerating ._.! I'm not really making a point unless not caring if I'm lynched for AtE or over exaggerating is a point.

Spice things up? I simply don't care. How is it spicing things up? ._.'!

 

[Raziek]

I can see where you're coming from, Joey, but you're starting to seem paranoid, and striking at phantoms that don't actually exist.

It's getting hard to follow your actual train of thought.

As for whether or not you're actually following me, I doubt it in the case of our same-time post. You did defend me earlier during JTB's push on me, but tbh, I probably would have done the same. Main reason I called Boat's "gambit".

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

...Wait. I'm lost.

That point was at him following me. We posted at the exact same time (literally, check the post times), and they were both average sized posts that couldn't be typed up just like that. >.<! He didn't follow my vote on Boat.

I'm just saying that I don't care if I'm lynched for AtE or over exaggerating ._.! I'm not really making a point unless not caring if I'm lynched for AtE or over exaggerating is a point.

Spice things up? I simply don't care. How is it spicing things up? ._.'!

just saying.

that's a point to state that you don't care if you are mislynched, and the fact that you accept what you were doing but are using FUD to say you are above the scumminess for the fact that you are fine with being mislynched.

it's not neccessary, that's all.

 

[Dooms]

If it was really obvious, what was the point of claiming Leeron then?

I just realized this

and let me tell you



I don't know if the size=6 will go through, but thats a REALLY BIG facepalm.

Because Raziek didn't know the flavor???????? That was why you attacked Raziek in the first place (for flavor fishing when he didn't know the flavor at all while everyone else did). Everyone else knew had some type of idea that he was leeron except Raziek. Hell, even I knew, and I've only seen 2 episodes >_>. It was REALLY obvious.

 

[Dooms]

just saying.

that's a point to state that you don't care if you are mislynched, and the fact that you accept what you were doing but are using FUD to say you are above the scumminess for the fact that you are fine with being mislynched.

it's not neccessary, that's all.

..........

You lost me completely ;-;! I'm just saying that I don't care if I'm lynched for AtE or Over-exaggerating. That is all I'm saying... >_<!

 

[Dooms]

EBWOP: Take out "Knew" in 217 @_@!

 

[Raziek]

2. Glyph
3. Zen
4. Boatchouli (Ryker/Moth)
5. asianaussie
7. Gova
12. X1-12

Some of these haven't even posted yet. I would like to hear from these people ASAP.

Specifically, I would like Boat to explain what his intent was with the gambit. (unless doing so is not pro-Town)

I don't think Glyph and AA have even posted yet, and while I believe Zen is V/LA, I still want to hear some opinions from everyone on this list.

 

[Dooms]

Has Gova actually posted yet? He's been inactive on Smashboards in general (when he shouldn't be of course), sooooo.....

Zen is V/LA lol.

 

[Raziek]

Gova posted very briefly during RVS after Boat claimed Miller, corroborating that claim to be likely.

 

[Dooms]

Oh yeeeah....

Someday Gova may actually post in mafia O_O!

 

[Gova]

Someday soon hopefully lol. Man this thread exploded.

 

[Dooms]

WAIT...

I didn't follow anyone at all! >:C!

Raziek didn't call either JTB or WL scummy before I did. How did I follow anyone?

I don't like where this is going >.<!

 

[Raziek]

Looking at it now, he didn't exactly follow me. When my wagon built he declared JTB and WL as scum-reads.

I later pressed T-Block and WL for very much the same reasons.

There are similarities, but I don't think it's completely accurate to call it following. Multiple players have expressed distaste with the way that wagon formed, and the players on it.

 

[Dooms]

Welp. X-x

 

[T-block]

Hey LAK, what's the punishment for breaking your posting restriction?

 

[T-block]

unvote

I'm liking Raziek more since he's not just sitting on the sidelines anymore and actually doing something.

This is a weird unvote... what had Raziek really done that changed your mind?

 

[T-block]

I'd like to be able to do more right now, but I'm still waiting on some explanations from Boat, and several players haven't posted yet. >_>

What the hell

So you're not able to do anything because Boat hasn't responded? Isn't that like... the definition of tunneling?

You could have weighed in on Joey for one.

 

[Raziek]

*waits for T-Block to catch up*

 

[T-block]

Well...

a) Forget posts made after that 193. Why did you, at 193, think there was nothing else to comment on?
b) Even looking at your more recent posts, I don't see much in the way of a stance on Joey... just a lot of clarification, and then focus on inactives. What is it that you wanted me to see?

What do you think of Soup? What do you think of my push on Soup?

 

[T-block]

Did I ever call T-block scummy? I don't remember me doing so, because I have a town read on him right now O_O! Oh... No, I didn't. That means you're lying, right WL?

Oh. It does. Cool!

Oh wait. Lying isn't a scum tell >:C

Where did WL say you called me scummy?

 

[T-block]

T-Block, I've tried REALLY hard to forget about that game lol. You're going to have to pull specific examples because honestly I don't remember anything in that game at all except that it was really bad ._.'!

X1 claimed daycop IIRC and pulled a lot of good reads from it, including catching J as scum.

 

[Raziek]

unvote

I'm liking Raziek more since he's not just sitting on the sidelines anymore and actually doing something.

I'd like to be able to do more right now, but I'm still waiting on some explanations from Boat, and several players haven't posted yet. >_>

Regarding a)

At that point, I never said there was nothing else to comment on. My 193 was in direct response to JTB's comment that I was actually doing things. While there were things I COULD have looked at, I don't feel it necessary to be involved in EVERY interaction, and I still consider the Boat issue major, and will guide my course of play.

You have already stated you believe he is Town, but will not say why, so until he posts, that avenue is blocked for me.

b) There wasn't anything in particular I had wanted you to see, but I did way in on Joey to some extent. Right now I'm feel he's leaning somewhat Town, however I'll be watching for attempts at buddying. I find it unlikely, giving that WL has already brought up a possible connection between the two of us, but it's there.

At this time I don't see any reason to think Joey is scummy.

Let me re-read Soup, I'll get back to you on that one.

 

[Raziek]

Further, before I begin my re-read, of course I focused on inactives.

In my eyes, at least half of the players in the game haven't provided enough content for me to get a decent read. Why wouldn't I want to address that?

 

[T-block]

It threw me off when you said "I'd like to be able to do more" as if to imply "I would do more, but there's nothing else to do". If you were talking about just Boat, then that's fine. Although it's still a little worrying that you're not weighing in on anything else.

You really didn't weigh in on Joey until 235. The recent posts you made about Joey were clarifications about following behaviour.

Addressing inactives is fine, but it's an easy to way appear active without really doing anything. Do other stuff.

 

[T-block]

Teehee. This makes me scummy? :3

Seriously though. Are you just stating this or...? When I learned how to play mafia, lying was the only scum tell I knew about. Its still probably the biggest turn point from town to scum in my play. Sorry if you find that scummy ._.'!

You don't need to respond to everything in the post... I like to provide context and background in my cases. Not every paragraph is a point that needs to be addressed individually.

Its a distraction to town, the player LAK, and to the moderator as well. Why should I not worry about that along with how scummy it looks when added together with the two posts I mentioned previously? :/.

Why do you care about distraction to the mod?

But more importantly, let's get to your policy on lying. You continue to maintain that Boat is scummy for lying, so let me ask you this: if a player is known for lying even as town, is lying still a scum tell for said person?

Never mind the basic principle of whether town should lie. You know that Ryker has done this kind of stuff as town. You were in Melee Tournament, where he lied about being a Princess. Given that, why are you continuing to push that Boat is scum because he lied?

Why should I have to ask for reasons when they should be given when you're obviously lying to the town? I don't see a reason why I would have to ask for those reasons. What @ the last sentence?

You don't KNOW that the gambit had no reasoning behind it. Let me put it this way, at the risk of adding WIFOM: even if Ryker were scum, and his only goal were to distract town, would he really do it in such a way? There's OBVIOUSLY a reason behind it, real or fake. You don't ask for it - you instead assume that there is none (which, as I've said, is a terrible assumption) and use it to push the idea of him as scum.

That was the case o_O'! At the time, WL looked like some random guy that jumped on a wagon just for the hell of it and with bad reasons. Thats more scummy than a gambit and two posts lol.

Again, just context.

Threatening? Are you talking about the way I responded or the way you posted it? Was your original question supposed to be threatening? Whoops. I didn't notice! :3. Since it isn't as obvious as I thought it was, I'll say this as well. That was implying that I didn't have more than the gambit, and that I realized that it wasn't enough for a legit vote. This is also why I said "after thinking about it" in the last post you quoted. My fault on that part loool aw well.

So you're saying that it was only when I asked that question that you realized you needed more than just the gambit to justify a vote on Boat. That got you thinking, and you saw 65 and 88, and realized that Boat actually had done other scummy things, so still deserves the scum read. Is that right? Please correct anything that is wrong.

Oh no I didn't catch something that you implied. That makes me scum, right? :D! Oh noooooo you caught me uguu ;-;!

It doesn't make you scum by itself, but it is certainly convenient that you didn't catch it.

How am I backing down? I'm still calling him a scum read and he still has to reply to the pressure that I have on him. Am I just supposed to sit there and make up more stuff while I wait for him or something? :O! You tell me Mr.T-Block!

I was drawing attention to the fact that you moved from "This gambit was in no way townie at all" to "Nope. Not that alone, at least", and did so after you were confronted about it. I suppose it's not so much backing down as it is that your original case on Boat was unsubstantial.

They're weak? Oh nooooooo. I couldn't tell uguu ;-;!

What? No seriously, what? If they weren't attempts to paint the players as scum, then what were they? ._.! You can tell me I'm wrong, but if you don't tell me how I'm wrong, then how am I supposed to do anything about it? Its like you're trying to attack me without giving me a way out, which makes me feel you're not accepting changes on this read ! Thank god I'm not Ryker and thank god that I don't think that tunneling is always a scum tell, because this looks like a preparation for just that! By the way, not both posts were used to paint the player as scum. Please don't imply that, since I didn't say it myself! ;-;! The questions he asked looked like attempts to paint Raziek as scummy for ruining his gambit. Sorry if you don't like it, but its just true to me! ._.! If you're curious, the main question I think thats an attempt at painting Raziek as scum is "What did you profit from interrupting me at that point instead of holding your cards?" Since the aggressive wording makes it look like he thinks Raziek is scummy for it.

Even in this paragraph there's a contradiction:

"If they weren't attempts to paint the players as scum, then what were they?"
"By the way, not both posts were used to paint the player as scum"

Yeah, the points are weak. 65 is a part of the gambit. 88 is just... textbook Ryker. You've played more games with him than I have - you should know that kind of thing coming from Ryker is not necessarily an attempt to paint someone as scum.

Honestly I don't mind being lynched for this lol. It'll teach me to fix it for sure, anyways. Being all over the place and over-exaggerating things are problems I have as a player in any faction, which is why people say "Being Joey" or things like that instead of townie for me. Its part of being bad I guess. That and reacting before my reads are fully developed I guess. Either or.

./AtE :3!

Yeeeeeeeeeee!

And yeah, cut the AtE. It's annoying.

Vote is going to stay here.

 

[Dooms]

Joey followed Raziek onto you and I. Raziek followed Joey onto Boat.



Can't elaborate. Not pro-town.

Here you go T-Block.

He was talking to you, so replace "you" with "T-block".

 

[Dooms]

X1 claimed daycop IIRC and pulled a lot of good reads from it, including catching J as scum.

Oh okay.