Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Cheerilee]

Dyrus is rude. When I used to watch a lot of his soloq games he'd be rude to a lot of players that weren't fellow pros. He's also said things like C9 is the only other team that matters, the rest are non-existent' Also when did I ever say Bjerg wasn't toxic. Everyone knows he is. I don't see why you feel the need to make up things about me...

The statement is brutally truthful and I don't really find it arrogant. The NA scene has always been disproportionately slanted towards TSM and C9 in the top three positions. In addition, when considering major organizations like Team Liquid and CLG they always tend to choke when they play against TSM. This is coming from someone who watches those games for the sole interest in seeing TSM lose as badly as they did at MSI (which was wonderful).

C9 delivered back to back first wins against TSM in the Spring and Summer split of this year. In their first game this split they went with a low risk AP Kog'Maw pick that TSM attempted to arrogantly challenge by picking early-mid game spike champions and didn't ban Rumble against Balls. Kog'Maw was never banned in games TSM played against Team Liquid / CLG. Fenix picked Jayce and Pobelter picked Azir.

C9's strength was also unique in the sense that they are known for being able to win even though they are behind. A lot of this having to do with their priority of objective control and when to trade rather than necessarily outperforming the enemy during early laning phase. The issue right now is how fast they are going to be able to optimize Incarnation as he is well known for being an extremely talented player when it comes to Solo-Q.

Dyrus is one of the most sensible people on the team when it comes to making statements for the camera. Which is basically a long shot from being anywhere close to objective, but a lot better than being Locodoco and saying that all your players are indisputably the top two in every position.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The entire post was sarcasm.

Also he said that quote about non-existant teams as a joke AND almost 2 years ago when questioned about CLG. Which was, I feel like I shouldn't even have to say, is hype up the CLG vs TSM match.

 

[Cheerilee]

 

[Sinister Slush]

"oh yeah i forget silver elo prayers are behind, bronze still better than silver, i know this because i defeat silvers all the time and im stuck in bronze elo hell..." -vvvortic the great

 

[KRDsonic]

I will never understand the people who have such low map awareness that they complain saying "Our jungler never ganks" when the jungler is literally in another lane getting a double/triple kill and a tower. Played one game where the enemy jungler camped our bot lane all game and the enemy top laner was complaining that their jungler was doing nothing. Then just had a game where our jungler snowballed mid and bot really hard and got a dragon and 2 towers off of it, and then our 2-0 top laner complained that he never got ganks. What.

 

[Dre89]

"oh yeah i forget silver elo prayers are behind, bronze still better than silver, i know this because i defeat silvers all the time and im stuck in bronze elo hell..." -vvvortic the great

The legend himself

Also were you trying to make a point with this or something? I don't understand why you posted it lol

 

[Dre89]

I like how Teleoburg told me off for building Trinity Force on Shen, and now it's being built on him in Korea

So I'm an idiot for building it in Bronze soloque, yet it's viable in the best professional league in the world.

Yep, I can see the logic there...

Edit- Whoops double post

 

[Sinister Slush]

Before shen got buffs when you were building it.
Shen still has the same problem of having a hard time to splitpush even with Sunfire cape, sure TF helps him more. But why play shen when you can play gnar maokai etc.

Also judging from the last 4 sets in Korea and a few in china, literally none of them built TF. Full tank I'm seeing from the EDG/LGD game and CJ entus vs samsung. And the shen went 1/7 in the CJ entus game, Samsung losing with it.

TF isn't good cause you're sacrificing tank on a TANK champion to go damage ahead or behind it's never good. Maybe a 6th item 50+ minutes in? But by then you're doing more damage with thornmail/sunfire than TF lol

 

[Cheerilee]

I will never understand the people who have such low map awareness that they complain saying "Our jungler never ganks" when the jungler is literally in another lane getting a double/triple kill and a tower. Played one game where the enemy jungler camped our bot lane all game and the enemy top laner was complaining that their jungler was doing nothing. Then just had a game where our jungler snowballed mid and bot really hard and got a dragon and 2 towers off of it, and then our 2-0 top laner complained that he never got ganks. What.

If I were the enemy jungler I would seriously start to camp that lane.

 

[Cheerilee]

TF isn't good cause you're sacrificing tank on a TANK champion to go damage ahead or behind it's never good. Maybe a 6th item 50+ minutes in? But by then you're doing more damage with thornmail/sunfire than TF lol

But Slush! At level 18 I'm doing +236 bonus physical damage on my autos! That's amazing.

:D

 

[Dre89]

Before shen got buffs when you were building it.
Shen still has the same problem of having a hard time to splitpush even with Sunfire cape, sure TF helps him more. But why play shen when you can play gnar maokai etc.

Also judging from the last 4 sets in Korea and a few in china, literally none of them built TF. Full tank I'm seeing from the EDG/LGD game and CJ entus vs samsung. And the shen went 1/7 in the CJ entus game, Samsung losing with it.

TF isn't good cause you're sacrificing tank on a TANK champion to go damage ahead or behind it's never good. Maybe a 6th item 50+ minutes in? But by then you're doing more damage with thornmail/sunfire than TF lol

Are you seriously trying to tell me that mr per level, lowered cd on passive and lowered cost on taunt is the difference between it being viable on him or not..

It was used in an earlier game where Shen won Also that 1/7 game he was 3 man-dived multiple times.

You get TF as a second or third item if you're doing well because you still won't die if you have an early sunfire and visage. You can theorycraft all you want but I know it from experience that you'll often survive if you ult
into a fight and taunt multiple people at that point of the game.

It also makes you more of a split push threat because you push and take towers a lot quicker.

Cherilee- 236? Dude at level 18 you're proccing 500+ damage on an auto every 3 seconds or so

 

[Sinister Slush]

Since most the top laners did Magic damage and needing more taunts to escape early ganks since the meta shifted from jungle mid synergy to top jungle, yes.
If you focused on TF before MR against the likes of Ryze Gnar Maokai Ekko Lulu etc. you'd get massively behind. Now with scaling MR level, you can prolly get away with just a null mantle and have a phage into TF/Sunfire.

Also just cause something is used in LCS doesn't mean it's automatically good.
UOL did a lot of stupid ****. Did it stick? No. Only thing that did was Varus and even then that's slowly falling off cause Kogmaw is still a better poke or Ezreal.
No Shaco, No Udyr, Shen sees play but not as much as you think would be.

 

[Dre89]

Since most the top laners did Magic damage and needing more taunts to escape early ganks since the meta shifted from jungle mid synergy to top jungle, yes.
If you focused on TF before MR against the likes of Ryze Gnar Maokai Ekko Lulu etc. you'd get massively behind. Now with scaling MR level, you can prolly get away with just a null mantle and have a phage into TF/Sunfire.

Also just cause something is used in LCS doesn't mean it's automatically good.
UOL did a lot of stupid ****. Did it stick? No. Only thing that did was Varus and even then that's slowly falling off cause Kogmaw is still a better poke or Ezreal.
No Shaco, No Udyr, Shen sees play but not as much as you think would be.

You don't need to rush it. If you're doing well in your lane, you can just go cowl into sunfire (getting the health first) . The health from sunfire still helps you sustain through magic harass. If you're really far behind you might need to complete visage first. You normally get mercs early on Shen anyway because MS is important on him.

This was the original reason why he didn't have MR in the first place. Because he could efficiently itemise for it if he needed to. They just gave it to him because that was an archaic philosophy and now all melees get MR.

If they don't have a big AP threat you can even go sunfire mercs TF. Health and shields are normally pretty good against burst anyway, but if it's like Azir or something you might to show more respect.

I haven't built TF in ages, but I know it's still legit. You get it second or third item so the flat stats are still relevant and so you're a legit split push threat. TF-tank Shen is still a raidboss late game, but TF means you'll actually threaten the carry lategame if they ignore you. Remember if they ignore you and don't pop your W you're going to do over 1000 damage to them in a period of roughly 5-6 seconds. Not the best but decent for a utility tank.

I know being in pro play doesn't automatically make something optimal. But it's pretty silly for someone to insinuate that I'm a bronze noob for building TF when players far better than him have done it too.

 

[Cheerilee]

Cherilee- 236? Dude at level 18 you're proccing 500+ damage on an auto every 3 seconds or so

Your reading comprehension skills bro.

 

[Cheerilee]

I did it guys. I beat a Fiora. High five.

Spoiler

And then I fed hideously! D:

 

[Soft Serve]

Lux rushing rod vs a mid vlad? Lol

 

[teluoborg]

It's worth noting that Vlad adapted to the ROA rush by building liandry second item lmao.

I haven't built TF in ages, but I know it's still legit. You get it second or third item so the flat stats are still relevant and so you're a legit split push threat. TF-tank Shen is still a raidboss late game, but TF means you'll actually threaten the carry lategame if they ignore you. Remember if they ignore you and don't pop your W you're going to do over 1000 damage to them in a period of roughly 5-6 seconds. Not the best but decent for a utility tank.

1-TF is a very good offensive item, you can build it on practically anyone and it'll work BUT besides 250 health and 40 AP it doesn't have any defensive value.
2-When you play Shen you already spend gold in sunfire. While it has a good load of health and armor it's still a lot of gold spent in the offensive passive.

Which means that if you build TF and sunfire you spent 4k+ in offensive stats, which is not necessarily a bad thing in soloQ and may not matter if you are ahead but will count if you are not ahead or eventually reach late game. Because when you reach late game and you have 1.5 offensive items in your inventory you are a bruiser, not a tank. And bruisers can't facetank a full team.

TL;DR : It's about gold managing and slot efficiency, things that you don't value since they are the complete opposite of mechanical skill.

 

[john!]

clown 9 needs a shotcaller, this is pathetic. i'm almost embarrassed to be a fan.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Why were you a fan in the first place. You also should've jumped ship when their main shotcaller left and added a random EU import lol.
Just like Sneaky's Butthole and Meteos.

 

[Espy Rose]

Cloud9's players are awesome.
I'll stick to it. It's always darkest before dawn.

 

[Sinister Slush]

They already played 11 games out of 18 with 3-8 score, they prolly won't be beating CLG Liquid etc. so they're most likely not even gonna make playoffs.
Maybe next season.

 

[Espy Rose]

Oh yeah, they're doing atrocious for a team like them.
It happens though.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Your reading comprehension skills bro.

Dre? Having poor reading comprehension? Perish the thought!

Not like I haven't clocked him like 3 times for it.

 

[Zano]

How many eons has it been since I posted in here

 

[Cheerilee]

I'm surprised that lolking hasn't updated their mastery pages yet after the mastery update. I'm still looking at mana regen where base mana is supposed to be and enchanted armor where swiftness is supposed to be. Even weirder are the issue I've been having with match history in a browser client which showed incorrect me as using armor quints instead of ability power quints.

I've been trying out Ryze. The most interesting thing with my games thus far is that every game feels entirely different. I'm still not sure how many mana items to buy and it always seems situational. Especially whether or not he should build for 40% CDR when he already has a cooldown reduction passive. There's not a lot of guides on the newly released Ryze, however based on personal play it seems like he's fine building towards AP without needing the frozen heart + spirit visage combination for maximum CDR + defensive stats.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Usually just going on probuilds can help people to get the gist of what they wanna do for a certain character after patches.

 

[Cheerilee]

Usually just going on probuilds can help people to get the gist of what they wanna do for a certain character after patches.

In your opinion is Ryze a champion that should be built to burst someone down after he roots them. Or is the root a form of cc in order to safely land some poke oriented damage and then back off from the enemy.

 

[Sinister Slush]

He's a CC bot, so no need to be bursting anyone. Ryze is a mana mage anyways, not AP mage. ROA Tear FH etc.
If you want burst, go Fizz or something else mid lane.

But yes, ryze never all ins unless he knows a combo or two after popping ult can kill his enemy if they're sticking around with under 60% health. Or if he feels like being an asshole and push them out of lane even if they're at full health.

 

[Dre89]

It's worth noting that Vlad adapted to the ROA rush by building liandry second item lmao.


1-TF is a very good offensive item, you can build it on practically anyone and it'll work BUT besides 250 health and 40 AP it doesn't have any defensive value.
2-When you play Shen you already spend gold in sunfire. While it has a good load of health and armor it's still a lot of gold spent in the offensive passive.

Which means that if you build TF and sunfire you spent 4k+ in offensive stats, which is not necessarily a bad thing in soloQ and may not matter if you are ahead but will count if you are not ahead or eventually reach late game. Because when you reach late game and you have 1.5 offensive items in your inventory you are a bruiser, not a tank. And bruisers can't facetank a full team.

TL;DR : It's about gold managing and slot efficiency, things that you don't value since they are the complete opposite of mechanical skill.

Full tank Shen is way less gold efficient at 6 items because no one will focus you in teamfights, so you just waste the stats. You also have zero splitpushing threat lol

Also, if building offensive items on tanks isn't gold efficient then why has every viable tank in the meta since season 4 done it. Only one I can think of that didn't build a damage item is Mundo

 

[Cheerilee]

[Meanwhile in Bronze]
Other 3 members of the team: "Are you sure about being Gangplank ADC?"
Gangplank: "I can play GP in any position because he's OP. Doesn't matter which support I get."
Me: "Okay."

[15 minutes later]

Spoiler

Match Overview​

 

[john!]

Rick Roll, the bronze ADC gangplank...

it's like he just logged on for the first time in 5 years.

 

[KittyKyat]

blugh, I've never posted in here despite being readdicted to league. x.x

Climbing out of Silver with just Riven is hella fun, I swear the only downside is camp or counterpicks (suprisingly common in Silver).

 

[Dre89]

blugh, I've never posted in here despite being readdicted to league. x.x

Climbing out of Silver with just Riven is hella fun, I swear the only downside is camp or counterpicks (suprisingly common in Silver).

blugh, I've never posted in here despite being readdicted to league. x.x

Climbing out of Silver with just Riven is hella fun, I swear the only downside is camp or counterpicks (suprisingly common in Silver).

Riven is one of those types though that can just clean up a skirmish for a couple of kills and instantly take over a game even if she was behind

[Meanwhile in Bronze]
Other 3 members of the team: "Are you sure about being Gangplank ADC?"
Gangplank: "I can play GP in any position because he's OP. Doesn't matter which support I get."
Me: "Okay."

[15 minutes later]

Spoiler

Match Overview​

You can win with anything at any level of soloque. You just can't afford to lose if you don't pick a meta champ, even if it's not your fault.

 

[KittyKyat]

Riven is one of those types though that can just clean up a skirmish for a couple of kills and instantly take over a game even if she was behind
.

And she's still fun because animation cancel funstuff!

 

[SuperBowser]

Took a break from league, but getting back into it.

Lux seems so strong right now. Might be my new favourite champion. Her laning is safe (although perhaps mediocre) but she's darn scary in jungle invades/skrimishes and her lategame threat is insane. Most importantly, she fits in nearly any team composition.

 

[jaswa]

Gravity currently playing Shen support.
What's the justification for why it's now viable?

 

[Cheerilee]

@ jaswa

Patch 5.11 Changes.

Spoiler

@ SuperBowser

She really is my favorite champion. It's just that I feel she loses out on so much in late game when the enemy team can buy a Banshee's Veil or some form of MR to negate a lot of poke damage that she brings to the table. She is great though in a meta where blink oriented assassins aren't as prevalent i.e. Master Yi / Zed / Talon and tank oriented teams are encouraged to group mid and start pushing allowing her to constantly deal efficient AoE damage.

 

[SuperBowser]

Gravity currently playing Shen support.
What's the justification for why it's now viable?

I don't think shen was ever a bad champion. He just had difficulties vs previously popular top laners and people felt he was less useful in the teleport meta (why do I need a shen ultimate when I can just teleport in with a different champion).

Looking at the overall team composition it makes sense. They have a AP nidalee jungle, so an extra tanky champion is useful. Shen is potent in the pick style comp they are playing (find a target slightly out of place and rush it down). Shen is reasonable vs alistar in the laning phase - if alistar engages, shen can just taunt back.



Cheerilee:

Yeah, the loss of blink champions likes Zed has helped I guess. Very few people buy banshee's veil in EU currently (I might be the only ADC I've seen buy it recently!).

She can seige with the best of them. She can play into protect the carry comps for lategame. She always has the threat of one shotting squishies.

The only games I struggled in have been when the ADC was crap and the top laner/junglers were low damage champions. I stalled these games but ultimately I think most mages would struggle to carry if they are the only damage source for a team.

 

[SuperBowser]

oops mistakae

 

[jaswa]

Yes I know about the recent buffs to him, what in particular makes him viable as support though?
Apologies if I wasn't clear, I meant in the context of Gravity playing Shen support, why is he viable in that particular position.
Also my question was conditioned on the present tense now, as opposed to previously.