Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Cheerilee]

Dre doesn't endorse binary champions because they are outside his unary wave of thought.

 

[Dre89]

Dre doesn't endorse binary champions because they are outside his unary wave of thought.

Cuz

I said I play Rumble

Also I don't mind binary champs like Garen or Taric who are one-dimensional but have limited impact on the game. It's champs like Fiora or Trynd, (who have some of the highest win-rates right now, Fiora is top 5, including high elo too) that take over a game with minimal skill required.

Can you honestly say you don't get frustrated at binary design when a Trynd Es onto you at level 1 triple crits you with ignite and wins the lane because of that lol?

 

[Cheerilee]

I get frustrated when people don't understand the term binary.

 

[Cheerilee]

You don't lose a game because people lock in a Tryndamere or a Katarina. Most games are lost on the basis that you or your teammates don't counterbuild these champions when many access point items like a Zhonya's, Guardian's Angel, or off hand tanky items are still viable item builds even if they may not necessarily be considered meta.

It's ironic that you mention how Taric is one-dimensional and limited then mention the potency of champions like Fiora and Tryndamere when a champion like Taric is literally the support answer to those champions. Jax also addresses both Tryndamere and Fiora with the safety behind his E to win auto-trades and the mobility in his Q to hop even wards, minions, or allied champions. Even a jungler like Rammus can build armor and still to counter such threats and still benefit by having that armor translate into AP damage.

I don't hate one dimensional champions. I find that the teamwork in silver and the amount of collective shot calling you can foster in that elo compared to bronze is way more important in winning games than actual mechanical skill. People lose this game because they get impatient and don't properly tackle objectives in the most efficient manner or really buy the best items for taking certain objectives at certain points in the game. How many times can I count being a Fiora and just walking up to their naked inhibitor and just taking it uncontested because they are chasing a kill on the other side of the map.

 

[Dre89]

You don't lose a game because people lock in a Tryndamere or a Katarina. Most games are lost on the basis that you or your teammates don't counterbuild these champions when many access point items like a Zhonya's, Guardian's Angel, or off hand tanky items are still viable item builds even if they may not necessarily be considered meta.

It's ironic that you mention how Taric is one-dimensional and limited then mention the potency of champions like Fiora and Tryndamere when a champion like Taric is literally the support answer to those champions. Jax also addresses both Tryndamere and Fiora with the safety behind his E to win auto-trades and the mobility in his Q to hop even wards, minions, or allied champions. Even a jungler like Rammus can build armor and still to counter such threats and still benefit by having that armor translate into AP damage.

I don't hate one dimensional champions. I find that the teamwork in silver and the amount of collective shot calling you can foster in that elo compared to bronze is way more important in winning games than actual mechanical skill. People lose this game because they get impatient and don't properly tackle objectives in the most efficient manner or really buy the best items for taking certain objectives at certain points in the game. How many times can I count being a Fiora and just walking up to their naked inhibitor and just taking it uncontested because they are chasing a kill on the other side of the map.

Mechanical skill is the only reliable way to get ahead and snowball that isn't dependent on your teammates. If you don't have mechanics then you're basically relying on the mechanics of your teammates to win. It doesn't matter how tactically intelligent you are, you will not win games if your carries don't have the mechanics to deal damage or kill key targets whilst staying alive. If you're consistently getting fed as a low outplay champ like Nasus, then it means you're probably making good decisions, but it also means you've had good luck with teams that are setting up those situations for you.

I didn't mention Katarina because Katarina is easy to deal with. She will die after any hard CC because she has no real defensive steroid. She also has no reliable way of avoiding said CC unless her team is so far ahead that her frontline can force all of the CC by themselves.

Kat has effective counterplay, that's the difference. A Kat that falls behind won't be relevant unless it gets to like 40 minutes. Trynd and Fiora are guaranteed to be a threat that you have to commit valuable resources to if the game goes past 20 minutes. Doesn't matter how far behind they are. Both champions are notorious for 1v1ing and 1v2/3ing champions that are hundreds or even a thousand+ gold ahead of them with no skill required.

Both have defensive mechanics that allow them to build glass cannon but effectively make them tanks in terms of how long they'll be alive to DPS. Doesn't matter how far behind Trynd is, you basically cannot stop him from taking towers. Fiora's splitpush is still manageable in that it'll still always take at least two people to stop her, but she can't just ult to suicide destory turrets. Her teamfighting has way less counterplay than Trynd's though because she has the smallest peel window of any melee in the game, yet probably has the strongest combination of burst plus hypercarry DPS.

Nasus is sort of similar in that after 30-40 minutes there's basically no counterplay to his splitpushing, but at least he's not threatening otherwise and is manageable in teamfights. Jax is sort of similar too, but at least you can stop his splitpushing with 2 people, and he can't oneshot a carry lategame whilst still being a tank, or then doing hypercarry DPS like Fiora.

I don't like one-dimensional champions in general, but the only ones I think that are far too strong for how brainless they are Fiora Trynd Karthus and Vlad. All of them are simple to play (Vlad can be kind of tricky I guess) and all of them have minimal counterplay even if they fall behind.

 

[KRDsonic]

Trynd is easy to deal with. Just cc him. I've played against lots of them and never had any trouble against them after realizing how to deal with them.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Kat gets relevant if she gets a double kill or has enough gold for sorc shoes/large rod.
Fiora gets relevant once she has tiamat and is level 6
Tryn gets relevant if he gets lucky crits level 1
Vlad isn't hard to play either, just hope you don't get Irelia or Riven and you win every MU or go even.

That's all it takes.

Tryn/fiora are literally the same champs, split push all day, require 1v3 to stop them 20+ minutes in, and each you can't target/kill for 3+ seconds cause of their ults. Just cause "just pink their ults" is an answer doesn't mean it's easy.
I can say Fizz is easy to shutdown and not hard to deal with by "shutting him down in lane" but he'll still possibly get kills bot lane or if he lands a lucky fish on the mid laner or anyone he can kill them instantly.

Tank top fizz is a different story though, I'm still practicing that the past 3ish weeks before I realized it started getting picked up in china then korea and now everywhere. But it still seems like a weaker tank ekko.

 

[teluoborg]

Fizz can be shut down all you want he still has a 5s CD dash/zhonya.

Mechanical skill is the only reliable way to get ahead and snowball that isn't dependent on your teammates.

Come on now.

 

[Cheerilee]

Come on now.

 

[Dre89]

CCing Trynd doesn't counter him because his teamfighting isn't the problem it's his splitpushing. It has no counterplay because you can't stop him getting towers, you just have to hope that that your team is so far ahead of his that you can 5v4 them and take their base before he takes yours. Trynd being fed just gives you less time to do that. There's a reason why Trynd and Fiora have had two of the highest win-rates in the game at all elos for awhile now. They're simple and have minimal counterplay.

Kat gets relevant if she gets a double kill or has enough gold for sorc shoes/large rod.
Fiora gets relevant once she has tiamat and is level 6
Tryn gets relevant if he gets lucky crits level 1
Vlad isn't hard to play either, just hope you don't get Irelia or Riven and you win every MU or go even.

That's all it takes.

Tryn/fiora are literally the same champs, split push all day, require 1v3 to stop them 20+ minutes in, and each you can't target/kill for 3+ seconds cause of their ults. Just cause "just pink their ults" is an answer doesn't mean it's easy.
I can say Fizz is easy to shutdown and not hard to deal with by "shutting him down in lane" but he'll still possibly get kills bot lane or if he lands a lucky fish on the mid laner or anyone he can kill them instantly.

Tank top fizz is a different story though, I'm still practicing that the past 3ish weeks before I realized it started getting picked up in china then korea and now everywhere. But it still seems like a weaker tank ekko.

I'm not sold on AD Fizz yet. I played 2 games with it (one in lane and one in the jungle), got fed both times and won but I still felt like I wasn't really able to do much considering how fed I was.

Trynd and Fiora are similar but have slightly different strengths. They both can 1v2/3 people that are hundreds of gold ahead of them with no skill. Trynd is a better splitpusher and Fiora is a better teamfighter. Fiora requires 3 people to stop her but at least you can stop her from taking the towers. Trynd's teamfight is weaker than Fiora's because he's at least kiteable.

You can't really shut down AP Fizz. His bases keep him relevant if he falls behind and low CDs means he can often get at least two spell rotations off in teamfights despite being squishy. I'm 11-3 with him at the moment, but I've probably fed solokills in over half of my games and yet I always manage to get fed regardless (have an average of 14 kills). I know it's low elo but I've never had that much leeway on other champs like Zed that I'm much better with. It's not as if high elo squishies take less damage from a spell rotation or something like that.

 

[Player-3]

Pick nasus into trynd

Max q>w

Don't die in lane

Build FH and tabi

Split push against him holding onto tp all game


Wither if he walks near tower

Gg

 

[KRDsonic]

I still don't really understand why people get upset at other people in games for using characters who "take no skill". Not counting stuff like Meta Knight level in Brawl where he requires little skill and is also the best in the game with no bad matchups. But for games like league, you choose the character you play. Some people prefer easier-to-master champions. Some people prefer champions that take a lot of skill and dedication to use. If you play one of those champions, that was your choice. It's not your opponent's fault that you chose a champion that's hard to play and you aren't good enough with them yet to stop them.

I'm not referring to anything in particular, it's just that I see so many people complain about things like "Yi/Annie takes no skill to play omg only reason we lost" and stuff.

Though at the same time, the way I see it, I don't really get much of a sense of accomplishment from beating someone in a game who doesn't know their character well. So I don't really respect anyone for using a hard-to-use character and completely failing with them any more than I do someone who picks an easy character and does decently with them. If anything, I consider the person who chose the easier character to be the better player, because they made the choice to use the tools (character) they have to increase their probability of winning.

 

[Dre89]

I still don't really understand why people get upset at other people in games for using characters who "take no skill". Not counting stuff like Meta Knight level in Brawl where he requires little skill and is also the best in the game with no bad matchups. But for games like league, you choose the character you play. Some people prefer easier-to-master champions. Some people prefer champions that take a lot of skill and dedication to use. If you play one of those champions, that was your choice. It's not your opponent's fault that you chose a champion that's hard to play and you aren't good enough with them yet to stop them.

I'm not referring to anything in particular, it's just that I see so many people complain about things like "Yi/Annie takes no skill to play omg only reason we lost" and stuff.

Though at the same time, the way I see it, I don't really get much of a sense of accomplishment from beating someone in a game who doesn't know their character well. So I don't really respect anyone for using a hard-to-use character and completely failing with them any more than I do someone who picks an easy character and does decently with them. If anything, I consider the person who chose the easier character to be the better player, because they made the choice to use the tools (character) they have to increase their probability of winning.

It's not the player we're annoyed at, it's the fact that those types of characters exist. It's not just that they're one-dimensional, it's that they're also incredibly strong with minimal counterplay. Ideally every champion should be equally strong, but if not that then the champions that are harder to play should have a higher impact ceiling. As it stands now you have champs like Fiora and Trynd that are brainless to play, become incredibly problematic every game they're in regardless of how far behind they are and have minimal counterplay at that point.

I think as well it's more annoying for the players who play higher mechanic carry champs than it is for the people who play simpler champs. It's more annoying for those people because they have to put in way more work and they won't even get to be as impactful as Trynd or Fiora. Even the transition from Zed to Fizz has sort of made me annoyed at the game design, and Fizz is still relatively mechanical. The fact that I can feed solokills in lane then still manage to get 15 kills a game kind of annoys me when solokilling people as Zed via outplays would never earn me that sort of impact.

 

[Cheerilee]

"Minimal counterplay."

There's so many beneficial counterplay options to both the champions you just listed that not building them is the fault of the team lacking a cohesive understanding of how the game will turn out rather than actually either of those champions being innately strong. Items like Frozen Heart or Randuin's Omen are intrinsically beneficial to the "bruiser" or "tank" champions that build them in addition to the team as a whole offering AoE AS reduction and targeted MS reduction with situational AS reduction.

Zhonya's is basically the AP version of a GA without requiring to sacrifice AP related damage for the invulnerability status and also can inflict damage to someone like a Fiora if they have an AoE spell that is still activate during the duration of the Zhonya's.

Not to mention that Bami Cinder base items like Sunfire Cape and Cinderhulk will still do AoE damage when Fiora is using her ultimate on you which can actually negate a lot of potential life steal she gets assuming she doesn't build any MR and has CDR blues which she should if she wants to snowball as quickly as possible. Or items on supports like Twin Shadows, Talisman of Ascension, Righteous Glory, or Face of the Mountain to just cc/run away from Tryndamere and reposition yourself after he activates his Undying Rage.

Then there's always Ninja Tabis which is just a super incredibly item considering that these champions are going to be doing most of their damage to you as auto-attack damage. These are also useful if you find yourself taking hits from an ADC. Fiora's ultimate is just a string of autos. Then there are expensive situational items you can buy like Thornmail which again can be incredibly useful if there is no MR being build on these champions and also has utility against an ADC.

If you are an ADC then you have Guardian's Angel which literally balances out a Tryndamere who manages to critically kill you in a team fight by overstepping your front line. Fed AD champs have so many counterplay options, especially melee AD varieties who make themselves privy to CC, AoE damage, and AS reduction.

This is just purely from an itemization perspective and not touching upon using champions that have plenty of CC available to lock down these champions in any given fight. Especially Jax who will just take no damage from either of these two champions aside from the one or two miniscule abilities they have which shouldn't do anything much if he is building according to meta.

 

[Cheerilee]

Yeah but honestly, idk what to say anymore. Stating that Nasus's strength is a split pusher over a team fight oriented self-sustain tank is ridiculous considering his kit holistically makes him more suited to TP into the middle of a team fight rather than just continue pushing to get the tower. Also I have no clue how you even think that Fiora is more teamfight oriented than Tryndamere when she can't even control her ultimate, she can still take AoE damage during her ultimate, and she deals more damage when she hits the same target. Then you have Tryndamere whose job is to bypss the front line and kill the back line.

 

[Frolossus]

CCing Trynd doesn't counter him because his teamfighting isn't the problem it's his splitpushing. It has no counterplay because you can't stop him getting towers, you just have to hope that that your team is so far ahead of his that you can 5v4 them and take their base before he takes yours. Trynd being fed just gives you less time to do that. There's a reason why Trynd and Fiora have had two of the highest win-rates in the game at all elos for awhile now. They're simple and have minimal counterplay.




I'm not sold on AD Fizz yet. I played 2 games with it (one in lane and one in the jungle), got fed both times and won but I still felt like I wasn't really able to do much considering how fed I was.

Trynd and Fiora are similar but have slightly different strengths. They both can 1v2/3 people that are hundreds of gold ahead of them with no skill. Trynd is a better splitpusher and Fiora is a better teamfighter. Fiora requires 3 people to stop her but at least you can stop her from taking the towers. Trynd's teamfight is weaker than Fiora's because he's at least kiteable.

You can't really shut down AP Fizz. His bases keep him relevant if he falls behind and low CDs means he can often get at least two spell rotations off in teamfights despite being squishy. I'm 11-3 with him at the moment, but I've probably fed solokills in over half of my games and yet I always manage to get fed regardless (have an average of 14 kills). I know it's low elo but I've never had that much leeway on other champs like Zed that I'm much better with. It's not as if high elo squishies take less damage from a spell rotation or something like that.

there is nothing inherently wrong with 1 dimensional characters as long as people can respond accordingly. the more pressing issue lately with character design has been massively overloaded kits.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Along with the fact the last 5ish champs that have been released have such overloaded kits that they're the best at their respective role/s.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah but honestly, idk what to say anymore. Stating that Nasus's strength is a split pusher over a team fight oriented self-sustain tank is ridiculous considering his kit holistically makes him more suited to TP into the middle of a team fight rather than just continue pushing to get the tower. Also I have no clue how you even think that Fiora is more teamfight oriented than Tryndamere when she can't even control her ultimate, she can still take AoE damage during her ultimate, and she deals more damage when she hits the same target. Then you have Tryndamere whose job is to bypss the front line and kill the back line.

Why do you keep mentioning Trynd's teamfighting when I keep mentioning it's his splitpushing that's the problem

No one here is complaining about Trynd's or Nasus' teamfighting because those have clear counterplay. They can be impactful in teamfights but they can also be kited. People don't hate these champions because of their teamighting. It's because they can go 0-3 in lane yet still require 2-3 people to stop their splitpush come 20-30 minutes.


Why are you talking about Fiora as if she's trying to ult 3-4 people. You just need Hydra and LW to 100-0 a carry at any stage no matter how far ahead in items they are. In a teamfight you just burst the carry then proceed to do hyercarry DPS if you survive. The untargetability on her ult gives her the smallest peel window of any assassin in the game.

there is nothing inherently wrong with 1 dimensional characters as long as people can respond accordingly. the more pressing issue lately with character design has been massively overloaded kits.

But the problem is some of those champions are too strong for how simple they are. No one cares about one dimensional champs like Garen or Nunu who can't take over a game by themselves. It's the ones like Trynd or Fiora who are guaranteed to be a problem you have to commit resources to every game no matter how far they fall behind.

I think only Yasuo and Ekko have overloaded kits. Kalista, Bard, Gnar Braum, Azir etc. all seem fine to me. Azir's is questionable because he does have long ranged hypercarry DPS, a dash and a CC all in one but I personally don't have an issue with him because I play assassins.

 

[KRDsonic]

This Instalok song is relevant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvFW_FCatLMp

 

[Sinister Slush]

Update cuz I streamed yesterday I think?
5-5 placements ;; Plat 4
5 game win streak to promos, gaining 24-27 points a win and losing 13 or 11ish?
1-2 promos, possibility of skipping P3 now shot down, might try just promos again tonight since I'm back in it.

 

[KRDsonic]

Someone tried Yi Mid against me yesterday because Faker did it. It was funny how badly it failed, and I've played mid literally less than 10 times before. I wound up being the most fed person on my team.

Shame that our bot lane fed so badly, but still.

 

[Player-3]

Update cuz I streamed yesterday I think?
5-5 placements ;; Plat 4
5 game win streak to promos, gaining 24-27 points a win and losing 13 or 11ish?
1-2 promos, possibility of skipping P3 now shot down, might try just promos again tonight since I'm back in it.

u cant skip me mate im decaying

 

[Cheerilee]

Update cuz I streamed yesterday I think? 5-5 placements ;; Plat 4 5 game win streak to promos, gaining 24-27 points a win and losing 13 or 11ish? 1-2 promos, possibility of skipping P3 now shot down, might try just promos again tonight since I'm back in it.

I loved this.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Why do you keep mentioning Trynd's teamfighting when I keep mentioning it's his splitpushing that's the problem

No one here is complaining about Trynd's or Nasus' teamfighting because those have clear counterplay. They can be impactful in teamfights but they can also be kited. People don't hate these champions because of their teamighting. It's because they can go 0-3 in lane yet still require 2-3 people to stop their splitpush come 20-30 minutes.

Why not try Trynd for yourself so you can see what it is exactly that stops you from splitting first hand. If you cant find a weakness or dont understand a character/strategy/etc, try it yourself so you can see how others deal with you. Obv you wont be good at it at first, but practice it until you think you're solid enough at it and then take it to ranked and see how it does.

 

[Dre89]

Why not try Trynd for yourself so you can see what it is exactly that stops you from splitting first hand. If you cant find a weakness or dont understand a character/strategy/etc, try it yourself so you can see how others deal with you. Obv you wont be good at it at first, but practice it until you think you're solid enough at it and then take it to ranked and see how it does.

They deal with you by having to send 2-3 people. I just had another game where a 0-4 Trynd required 2-3 people to stop his split. So we tried to group and force 5v4s, we won every single won but we had casualities because they had a hypercarry comp so Trynd would get towers every single time. I don't get what we were supposed to do. He got stomped in lane. If he split we'd send people to stop him, or we'd 5v4 their team. We did what you're supposed to do. The variable is the fact that we weren't stomping the rest of his team, so the 5v4s bought him time to take towers. Whether a Trynd wins or not is basically dependent on how well his team does.


I have literally never seen a game, even at high elo, where a Trynd has not become relevant. You basically have to stomp him in lane, which you can only do if he doesn't get favourable RNG, then end the game by around 20 minutes or so. I remember watching a Diamond game last season where a team won with a 1/14 Trynd because they couldn't stop his split after a certain point. I also remember another Diamond game where a Renekton main who was 3-4 kills up on a Trynd, with a 30+ cs lead, got destroyed by him in a 1v1 at level 14 lol. He didn't dodge any of the Renekton's abilities or anything, it was just the stats and RNG.

There's like 3 champions who actually truly counter him. By counter I mean be able to prevent him from taking a turret 1v1. Having to send 3 people to stop him isn't countering him because that gives the rest of his team an advantage. You just have to hope that the rest of his team is so far behind that you can wipe them 5v4 easily. But that's not countering him, that's countering his team.

I'm also scared to lane against him now because the last Trynd I laned against E'd onto me at level 1 and triple crit me so I automatically lost lane from there. I'm not sure what the counterplay was.

 

[Sinister Slush]

u cant skip me mate im decaying

Hah
I just got that joke.

 

[Dre89]

Trynd sort of reminds me of RBY tauros. One-dimensional character who just runs at you with his stats and RNG.

That kind of makes me want to play him now

Edit- I played him, and god this champion is dumb lol. When I was 9/9 I walked up to their inhib tower, took it whilst tanking their 7/9 Black Cleaver Xin Zhao. After I took the tower I decided to fight Xin and was winning despite the fact that I had tanked him for like 5 seconds without ult when I was taking the tower. He lived because their Graves and Udyr came for me so I popped my ult and killed Graves 1v3 before dying.

It's absolutely ****en ******** that I could take a tower whilst tanking a bruiser for like 5 seconds, then proceed to kill someone 1v3 after that lol. That took absolutely no skill at all and I wasn't even really ahead.

 

[Cheerilee]

 

[Dre89]

About time to be honest

I only started getting into in s3, so I never saw Dyrus or Turtle in their supposed primes. Other latecomers like me probably also wonder why these guys have stayed on a top team for so long. I'm surprised Dyrus didn't get dropped too, he's honestly really bad mechanically for someone on a top team. I watch replays from Bjerg's stream and he botches simple stuff like every game is in. He doesn't seem that amazing tactically, and I don't think he's the main shot caller either. I just don't see what he offers over other top laners to justify his spot.

Also new players or not TSM are probably screwed at Worlds. TSM isn't that intelligent on a macro level, they win most of their games by having their opposition throw in teamfights. I doubt that's going to work against the top Korean teams, who rarely throw leads.

 

[Espy Rose]

Damn everyone in that video has a lisp.

 

[KRDsonic]

Dyrus has been playing a lot better lately, and I've noticed it. I've been impressed. Meanwhile, I've been seeing Wildturtle get caught out over and over game after game lately.

 

[Cheerilee]

@ Dre89

Jsyk Dyrus is the most respectable member on TSM.

 

[Dre89]

@ Dre89

Jsyk Dyrus is the most respectable member on TSM.

Why

 

[Sinister Slush]

Why not?
He's the oldest member, friendly with everyone, and after MSI he buckled down and tried to improve which he did vastly. Meanwhile turtle is still the same since he joined the team, too ham and getting caught multiple times prolonging games.

 

[Cheerilee]

Why

I believe that TSM runs a top-down management style and when players fail to perform in an organization like TSM which have a coach and two analysts who do constant performance analysis and meetings that the actual outcome of the games have more to do with the managerial staff than the actual individual players.

In the TSM Legends series it has been discussed frequently of developing Wild Turtle into a second carry threat in order to pick up the slack when Bjergsen cannot carry the game for the team. In addition, another thing you have to realize is that when a player like Bjergsen is getting focused, there should be a better performance from payers like Wild Turtle to put on more damage because he's not the primary focus in a lot of engages.

When compared to what the coaching team had essentially did to Dyrus at MSI which was to continually force him to play on an island without Santorin or Lust Boy offering him assistance despite the fact that Lust Boy was literally laning with Turtle when nothing was going on in lane was essentially a failure on the part of the coach & analysts to address this behavior.

Analysts like Montecristo have come to the conclusion that you can't have three carry threats on any given team due to resource restrictions. The maximum amount is maybe two carries and a half-carry which is representative of Fnatic as it has Febiven, Huni, and Rekkles.

Essentially when you have the team trying from Spring Split to turn Wild Turtle into a second carry and failing to deliver, then you have to consider the fact that Dyrus was essentially neglected from having attention put into him developing into a HUni-esque carry type top laner who plays champs like Cassiopeia. However, what you often see is Dyrus apologizing for not "communicating" with Santorin to get ganks in the top lane for the entire season and MSI.

The core issues with TSM is the fact that it is an NA team with perhaps the most invested into it's coaching and analytical approach to the game. However, honestly has the least to show for it with teams like Dignitas managing to come out ahead in the sSummer Split or being unable to close out a game against C9 which are 2-6 this split because of a late scaling Kog'Maw comp.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I think it's just they keep saying they want worlds but in reality it literally does just come down to the nitty gritty which is "make the big bux from our autistic fanbase"
They don't actually care for winning worlds, possibility of adding keith won't help them and even though turtle isn't improving he's still a better ad to have on the team than keith or say forgiven. Staying in NA won't help them, they're just trying to make their already gigantic brand grow, nothing more nothing less. I wouldn't be surprised if the three teams going to worlds this year is DIG Gravity/TIP and CLG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlihOMLWVZo#t=1h24m25s

 

[Dre89]

I think I just don't like him because he's rude, and I don't think he's anywhere good enough to be on a top team. It's basically a combo of the two which is why I don't respect him.

 

[Player-3]

I think I just don't like him because he's rude, and I don't think he's anywhere good enough to be on a top team. It's basically a combo of the two which is why I don't respect him.

neither of those are true tho

 

[Sinister Slush]

Dre lives in a funny world, we already know his whole everyone else making mistakes not him while I've beaten challenjour and diahmin playahs.
So maybe his thing for players is saying they're rude when they're not. Bjergsen is literally the most perfect player, especially him complimenting his team every minute of the games he plays on stream.

 

[Dre89]

Dre lives in a funny world, we already know his whole everyone else making mistakes not him while I've beaten challenjour and diahmin playahs.
So maybe his thing for players is saying they're rude when they're not. Bjergsen is literally the most perfect player, especially him complimenting his team every minute of the games he plays on stream.

So because I think I should be around Gold (because I've been successful there) apparently I think I never make mistakes and that I deserve Challenger

If you're going to bring up things not relevant to the conversation in an attempt to be toxic, it helps if you're not stupid



Dyrus is rude. When I used to watch a lot of his soloq games he'd be rude to a lot of players that weren't fellow pros. He's also said things like C9 is the only other team that matters, the rest are non-existent'

Also when did I ever say Bjerg wasn't toxic. Everyone knows he is. I don't see why you feel the need to make up things about me...