• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Still don't get how MR buffs turned him from non-viable to meta in two different roles

Pretty sure this is a case of a buff reminding people of a champion that was always viable, rather than the buff making him viable
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
Still don't get how MR buffs turned him from non-viable to meta in two different roles

Pretty sure this is a case of a buff reminding people of a champion that was always viable, rather than the buff making him viable
Cause he's a tank and they gave him a fair amount of MR?

Seemingly minor tweaks in numbers often make a gigantic difference.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
pretty sure 23 free magic resist is a huge buff for a tank
I've been playing Shen in both top and supp since season 3 and the MR is honestly not make or break

Especially on top Shen, seeing as you itemise for MR anyway. You still became a raidboss without it. The whole reason why he didn't originally have the MR is because he didn't need it due to itemising for it.

I also don't get how the lack of MR wasn't a problem in season 3 when he was meta but made him unviable in season's 4 and 5.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
I've been playing Shen in both top and supp since season 3 and the MR is honestly not make or break

Especially on top Shen, seeing as you itemise for MR anyway. You still became a raidboss without it. The whole reason why he didn't originally have the MR is because he didn't need it due to itemising for it.

I also don't get how the lack of MR wasn't a problem in season 3 when he was meta but made him unviable in season's 4 and 5.
Have you considered that maybe he got nerfed in season 3 that hurt his viability? And perhaps it was a nerf that impacted his defense?
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Have you considered that maybe he got nerfed in season 3 that hurt his viability? And perhaps it was a nerf that impacted his defense?
He stopped getting played after the teleport changes. Shen always had lower combat-effectiveness than other top laners, but had the global to compensate. With teleport getting buffed he lost his niche as now every top laner did what he did but with better combat-effectiveness. That's why they're buffing him now. The two most important buffs where CD drops on his ult and his passive. The buffs are nice but he's still weaker combat-wise with the double global niche to make up for it. So it's not like his viability has really changed that much since the teleport changes. His recent popularity is definitely just buff-syndrome.

I always wanted Shen to get MR/lvl, but it's not that huge for a true tank. True tanks can afford to get 2 MR items because they can still be impactful with no damage items. Mr/lvl is more important on bruisers. They have a damage burden, and if it gets to lategame they normally need a second damage item to stay somewhat relevant. MR/lvl is big for them because if they take MR/lvl blues with mercs and a Visage/Banshees they can normally get a second damage item instead of MR.
 
Last edited:

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,009
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
The meta wasn't fit for shen and another good reason for no Shen was also because there was a bug for him for so long that he literally was disabled for pretty much an entire season (I think S4?) and I recall them finally fixing it this season.

So that and Shen support not being seen as good till now prolly why he wasn't played.
And yes, any buff can make a character good right off the bat. Urgot literally got basically only a W/Shield buff and he was perfect for the tank meta simply cause of that ability.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
So the top 3 top laners for win rates are Trynd Fiora and Wu. The two champs I've always thought are broken and my main.

Kind of interesting that they're all pretty weak early laners, the exception being Trynd if he gets Tauros RNG. I guess being a lane bully is less effective than having weak lane presence in exchange for a low-counterplay mid-late game
 
Last edited:

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
Riot please. Let me still recall after taking damage at the very end of the animation so I can see them complain in all chat.
 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
So the new dude. Pretty cool, closing gaps with him seems pretty hard though, glory helps a lot with that I found. Really fun, that % dmg shred on the W is crazy and e makes it feel like you have to kill him almost twice. Ult is weird in that you have to pick where at the start of the channel, but yeah its pretty broke. Only played him top lane so far
 

KRDsonic

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Charleston, West Virginia
I played against a top lane Tahm Kench as Gnar. It was... interesting. I didn't know anything about him at the time, so I did die a couple times due to getting eaten and pulled under his tower before one of my teammates told me how he works. After laning phase though, he really didn't provide nearly as much for his team as I did. Though to be fair, he wasn't all that good. I had double his cs despite dying twice in lane from ganks and never having my jungler show up. I'd be interested in seeing what Tahm Kench is capable of.

:059:
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
This is completely ridiculous:


"We weren't using Shen ult properly. Whereas you use it to engage and taunt on a target and then all in the target..."
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
Just me and my perspective, but,
I would've said/felt the exact same thing. I'm assuming the malz tried to harass you early.
The fact it worked out sounds like he's sarcastically retorting himself :p Especially if he's like 4/0 or something.
It's a possible explanation to his behavior. Also Fiora is a garbage mid, however her kit gives so much room when the enemy is unaware of how to counterplay her or are just unsure of how to play their own champion in an AP v. AD setup. The biggest issue with bronze which is the elo I'm playing in is the lack of ability on "mid laners" to conceptualize what they need to do and what factors gate them in order to snowball laning phase as soon as possible while respecting factors outside of lane i.e. jungle pressure + vision. Also junglers are generally largely a non-factor for mid lane if care is put into slow pushing and not just blindly attacking enemy tower without any surrounding vision while the rest of the map is still on primary turrets (lack of concept on when to roam).

Such a big component of securing kills early on comes down to chase and diving potential because armor is almost never pre-built by any laner aside from top lane and a non-traditional armor item is often not optimized for both the champion being used and the champion it is being used against. This makes mid lane even more definitive as mid and jungler can often times snowball the game at a very early stage off of getting fed off the enemy mid laner alone. Whereas bot lane or top lane often lends itself to more resistance due to the idea that top laners are more welcoming of giving away CS / waiting for jungle pressure with the slower wave. Bot lane is gated by really poor coordination from the ADC and support essentially waiting for level 6 to just synchronize when they press R on a target at any given time.
 
Last edited:

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Fiora is a legit mid laner against any of the short-mid range mages. Anyone that starts flask and has a gapcloser will win out against a D-ring mage whose range is short enough to be in gap-closer range at certain points.

Edit- Come to think of it Malz would be pretty rough for Fiora. Probably one of the few mages you still lose to at 6. Then again it's Bronze, so you can win any matchup. Lane mechanics and knowing how to close out games are by far the biggest differences between Bronze and higher elo, and Fiora benefits a lot from weakness in those areas.
 
Last edited:

KRDsonic

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Charleston, West Virginia
Ability to cs is pretty big too. It always feels weird when I'm doing a terrible job of csing in a game, then tab and see that my lane opponent is doing even worse. What's even sadder is when I look at the final statistics in the game and I apparently had the highest cs out of everyone.

:059:
 

SphericalCrusher

Hardcore Gamer
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
671
Location
Georgia, USA
NNID
SphericalCrusher
3DS FC
1118-0223-8931
Just reinstalled the game after two years. Gonna try to play it on my laptop - I usually use my desktop, but I need a desk for it. I'm pretty overwhelmed at all of the changes... but I'll try to see how I do. I used to be able to run anything and had a really good team.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
Who do you guys think has the best chance at worlds NA wise?
I'm assuming you mean worldwide and not just NA. My guess would be either EDG or SKT. NA is honestly a joke compared to the East atm. TSM is terrible at the macro-level and they're one of the top teams in the league. Haven't watched much EU but from what I remember it's just a more gimmicky version of NA. I'm sure they could take the odd game off the Eastern teams if thing go their way but I'd be astounded if they got anything more than that.
 
Last edited:

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
Missed that

On paper CLG would make sense if they don't choke, but for some reason I think TL will surprise everyone if they make it
TL is gated by the same factors as CLG and TSM. These are the biggest teams which have the most infrastructure, however all three organizations have been bogged down by bureaucracy bull**** instead of just attempting to outplay the enemy team on a day to day basis. TSM and TL have one player on the team considered to be a world star, but these players are often put into situations and environments where they can't carry with the rest of the team. On the other hand, SKT has Faker who last I checked is having a god-like season where no one is coming close to him in Champions League.

I will admit that while I'm a TSM fan, I don't foresee them ever winning Worlds any time soon, unfortunately. There's just much better teams out there. :059:
TSM does deserve to go to Worlds based on their past performance. However, they are in the same category like CLG and TL in the sense that I group all three of these organizations as being the worst teams you would want to be in Worlds from NA. These teams have the most infrastructure, however the resources they have aren't applied effectively or to the same extent as Korean organizations that have managed their players much better and also have even more resources to channel into raising e-sport stars.

A team like Gravity on the other hand that is being innovative and performing has more promise for an upset. For someone who watched MSI, we saw that TSM had Bjergsen play on champions like Cho and Ziggs over more carry oriented champions. Casters said that Bjergsen won lane because of a CS advantage, however these champions are able to maximize farm if that's the intention. In addition, they used AP Runeglave Ezreal incorrectly with poor synergy and against bad matchups from the enemy team. TSM has shown adaptation to new meta, however adaptations are always gated in a strong bureaucratic setting with too much infrastructure and not enough attention being paid to winning the games in the coming weekend.

A core issue is that these teams repeatedly have the objective of "winning Worlds" as the end goal objective. However, all three of these teams fail to capture this goal despite Chinese and Korean teams having a much more solid grasp of winning and closing out games which is still an issue in NA. If they have been dedicating splits to win Worlds and are struggling just to contend for a ranking spot within Worlds then the management has prioritized the goal over building up the methods and tools for the players to win.
 

Cheerilee

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
548
I'm assuming you mean worldwide and not just NA. My guess would be either EDG or SKT. NA is honestly a joke compared to the East atm. TSM is terrible at the macro-level and they're one of the top teams in the league. Haven't watched much EU but from what I remember it's just a more gimmicky version of NA. I'm sure they could take the odd game off the Eastern teams if thing go their way but I'd be astounded if they got anything more than that.
Missed that
The most important thing to address is that EU is not a "gimmicky version of NA." Fnatic currently has some of the most enjoyable players to watch. Huni, Rekkles, and Febiven are all dangerous players who can carry games when they are expected to carry. The fact that you have a team majorly composed of star talent and managing to still perform consistently without giving up a single loss this season means that management must be doing something right or there is some chemistry that is currently working out for them.

Origen and H2K are very interesting examples of teams that are inverse to one another. Origen from what's been said on Summoning Insight have very strong solo laners and performers, whereas H2K is a team that is centered around team fighting and making plays even if it means roaming and losing CS leading to compromising individual champion strength in favor for objectives and getting end game results.

Also your NA knowledge needs to seriously be updated. TSM isn't a top team in the League currently, however is likely to get into playoffs and Worlds based on circuit points from last split. EU has been performing way more consistently than NA and the games are generally more enjoyable with each team having a solid identity that doesn't necessarily dictate how they play the game. Counter to NA where it seems like team identity discussion is centered around how these MLG teams actually play the game and are still trying to figure out how to consistently win and produce results that the top three EU teams are coming up with on a week to week basis.

The way less important thing is that you didn't miss it, you deferred addressing it. Openly.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom