Dcold
Smash Lord
I will be on the PR by the end of this year, trust me.
2 Sheiks getting on their PR's this year? Let's make it happen?
2 Sheiks getting on their PR's this year? Let's make it happen?
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Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ
- Thread starter saviorslegacy
- Start date
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Man....so I did some talking with the panelists on the PR and he told me I was right on the cusp! Unofficially #11. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Hopefully if I can come into some money, I will enter more and make some noise.
Let's do this.
Hopefully if I can come into some money, I will enter more and make some noise.
Let's do this.
Dcold
Smash Lord
Damn so close
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Yo im PR'd in MI.
The real secret to being PR'd is getting on the panel.
The real secret to being PR'd is getting on the panel.
zApollo
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2009
- Messages
- 839
Ja, being on the panel is basically a guaranteed spot on the PR, even with some leverage to boost yourself up a few spots =DYo im PR'd in MI.
The real secret to being PR'd is getting on the panel.
I'm currently 2nd on the QLD PR with ZSS, but I plan to change that to 1st with solo sheik.
Soon my friends...soon.
RED6
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2011
- Messages
- 84
Hey, I was wondering if anyone could tell me why the kirby mu is considered so heavily in kirby's favor. I mean, I know gettin grabbed sucks a little, but it doesn't seem awful. Jw I suppose, in case the kirby I play often just doesn't seem to play the mu right. He's no chudat or anything, but he's not bad, so I figured i'd ask in case I run into a higher level kirby. As far as it seems to me, kirby pretty much can't do anything against needles/tilts.
I don't think Sheik's tilts are supposed to beat Kirby's bair.
zApollo
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2009
- Messages
- 839
That's the matchup, sheik can do very little against b-air.
Dcold
Smash Lord
All I do in that MU is run away and use Needles, and Fairs/Bairs when they miss-space a bair really, I'm really weak in this MU, I need to play MikeKirby more often, but he's away for the summer @__@
RED6
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2011
- Messages
- 84
,,
This, pretty much. It seems like once you're able to land a couple hits, you can string on him really easy with jabs, tilts, fair. And uair seems to be a pretty reliable kill move if kept rather fresh for after you get him with a ftilt at a decent percentage, or when following up after a throw
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
I never found Kirby to be very hard.
Has anyone just tried running under Kirby's while he's spacing with Bair? Sheik is very fast, and she bends very low when she runs. If you don't think you'll make it under him without getting hit by Bair, just shield it and try again. The object here is to get in front of Kirby while he's midair.
If you successfully get in front of Kirby, he's not going to want to land while he's facing you, because he's very weak from the front. What will happen is he air jumps again so that he can turn his back to you again. The thing is, he won't have his cozy, close-to-the-ground, hard-to-punish spacing against you. Instead, he'll be floating high above you, with bad Bair spacing, after having already used several of his jumps. He won't be looking to Bair you any more...he probably just wants to land. Don't let him.
I'm leaving work now, sorry if this is rushed, I'll expand on it when I get home.
Has anyone just tried running under Kirby's while he's spacing with Bair? Sheik is very fast, and she bends very low when she runs. If you don't think you'll make it under him without getting hit by Bair, just shield it and try again. The object here is to get in front of Kirby while he's midair.
If you successfully get in front of Kirby, he's not going to want to land while he's facing you, because he's very weak from the front. What will happen is he air jumps again so that he can turn his back to you again. The thing is, he won't have his cozy, close-to-the-ground, hard-to-punish spacing against you. Instead, he'll be floating high above you, with bad Bair spacing, after having already used several of his jumps. He won't be looking to Bair you any more...he probably just wants to land. Don't let him.
I'm leaving work now, sorry if this is rushed, I'll expand on it when I get home.
RED6
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2011
- Messages
- 84
That sounds like a method I use against Kirby as well (the running underneath them) though I feel I do it more often against GnW for whatever reason. Then I just shield if I think I might get hit. I like to plant my feet and try to make kirby come to me, whereas maybe I just don't like snappy comin at me all too much lol
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Okay, now that I'm home I'm going to type out my comprehensive guide to approaching Kirby.
Okay, he's spacing Bairs against you. Stay close and wait until you can try to run under him. Wait until you have the timing, and then dash at him. Two possibilities:
A. You aren't fast enough to avoid the Bair. Just shield it and reset. Maybe you'll powershield it and be able to punish.
B. You are fast enough and you make it under Kirby. What you should do now is shield to stop your dash right in front of Kirby.
Now, Kirby basically has two options:
A. Land, usually with an aerial. This isn't really a threat to you because Kirby is very weak from the front. A lot of times it will just be a whiffed Bair, because he doesn't know you're trying to get behind him. Punish with a dash grab, dash attack, or whatever else works. Just make sure he doesn't shield whatever you try to do, because he'll be facing you, and will be able to shield grab anything you hit his shield with.
B. If he knows that you got under him, he will probably double jump up and AWAY from you so that his back is facing you again. In this case, dash at him again so that you STAY UNDER HIM.
If B happens, it's very good because he's high in the air, you're directly under him, and he no longer has any spacing on you. NOW, this floaty character needs to land against a character with a very fast movement speed, a respectably large and fast vertical jump, and extremely fast aerials.
As long as you stay under Kirby (and preferably a bit in front of him when you think he's going to land), he shouldn't be able to land safely. Don't let him Bair. Though if he does, it will probably be poorly spaced and punishable.
This MU is only -3 or whatever if you try to challenge Kirby's Bair with your aerials. Find ways to ruin his Bair spacing and the MU will get a lot easier for you.
Okay, he's spacing Bairs against you. Stay close and wait until you can try to run under him. Wait until you have the timing, and then dash at him. Two possibilities:
A. You aren't fast enough to avoid the Bair. Just shield it and reset. Maybe you'll powershield it and be able to punish.
B. You are fast enough and you make it under Kirby. What you should do now is shield to stop your dash right in front of Kirby.
Now, Kirby basically has two options:
A. Land, usually with an aerial. This isn't really a threat to you because Kirby is very weak from the front. A lot of times it will just be a whiffed Bair, because he doesn't know you're trying to get behind him. Punish with a dash grab, dash attack, or whatever else works. Just make sure he doesn't shield whatever you try to do, because he'll be facing you, and will be able to shield grab anything you hit his shield with.
B. If he knows that you got under him, he will probably double jump up and AWAY from you so that his back is facing you again. In this case, dash at him again so that you STAY UNDER HIM.
If B happens, it's very good because he's high in the air, you're directly under him, and he no longer has any spacing on you. NOW, this floaty character needs to land against a character with a very fast movement speed, a respectably large and fast vertical jump, and extremely fast aerials.
As long as you stay under Kirby (and preferably a bit in front of him when you think he's going to land), he shouldn't be able to land safely. Don't let him Bair. Though if he does, it will probably be poorly spaced and punishable.
This MU is only -3 or whatever if you try to challenge Kirby's Bair with your aerials. Find ways to ruin his Bair spacing and the MU will get a lot easier for you.
The matchup is -2. It's a really really annoying matchup due to having to pretty much play around Kirby rather than against him, but it's clearly not on the level of having to avoid a chaingrab to death or near-death the entire game.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Getting hit by Kirby sucks, and our gain after hitting Kirby is pretty weak.
Also the threat of Bair isn't Bair camping imo, it's more that he retains the option as a giant FU to a lot of our all approaches. And when were offstage/ on the ledge it can be pretty brutal. At kill percentages he can sit in his shield without any real fear of getting grabbed, because if we chase him in the air were have Bair as an option, limiting our already lackluster killing options. Ofc, if he grabs us at kill percents, landing is going to be really scary with a chance of dead.
Gotta look at the negatives too. I agree with -2.
Also the threat of Bair isn't Bair camping imo, it's more that he retains the option as a giant FU to a lot of our all approaches. And when were offstage/ on the ledge it can be pretty brutal. At kill percentages he can sit in his shield without any real fear of getting grabbed, because if we chase him in the air were have Bair as an option, limiting our already lackluster killing options. Ofc, if he grabs us at kill percents, landing is going to be really scary with a chance of dead.
Gotta look at the negatives too. I agree with -2.
Ayce God
RIP Nova 9
how do play against pikachu with sheik?
Dcold
Smash Lord
Needle camp + jumping. I'm not an expert at it by any means so other's opinions will be better than mine by far lolol.
Better to get hit with Tjolts than grabbed, any day. Ftilt lock and grab release dacus work on him so it's not ICs bad, but it's annoyingly fun at times.
Better to get hit with Tjolts than grabbed, any day. Ftilt lock and grab release dacus work on him so it's not ICs bad, but it's annoyingly fun at times.
Ayce God
RIP Nova 9
ftilt lock?
Dcold
Smash Lord
That good ol' Ftilt->Ftilt->...->uTilt/uair
Orion*
Smash Researcher
i dont see how kirby could be worse than -1
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I still like the idea of going Zelda against Pikachu until you were out of Sheik's chaingrab percents, if Zelda is your cup of tea.
He sits in weird areas of the air for Sheik to hit him while controlling the zoning game at the same time. The multiple jumps give him the ability to control positioning and all that crap. At intermediate play it's probably a more frustrating MU than MK because at least with MK his aerial mobility isn't as great and he doesn't have as dominating of an aerial as Kirby.
Her ftilt stuff on Kirby generally only leads into two ftilts>aerial which does minimal damage and the best answer Sheik has for his bair is powershield to a dash attack which does little as well.
Yea Zelda is probably the better choice in all honesty but she still is very bad so your screwed either way.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
I'm sure we have much more than just PS to Dash attack on his Bair. Probably aerials of all kinds.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
I always just did what DLA did in regards to spacing. When you play 1 dimensional characters if you put yourself in a position that negates their best option they become much easier to deal with
Fire!
Smash Champion
I was digging though the thread and found this. Do you think you can briefly expand on why Sheik is bad against these characters or Sheik's weaknesses in general?
Also, could someone quickly explain Sheik's defensive game?
Thanks in advance!
Dcold
Smash Lord
That writeup that Aisight gave is pretty damn accurate. MK can overtake her, Kirby can outzone her with bair, Lucario's character structure is like opposite of Sheik, the more you hit him the stronger he gets, Sheik can't kill him well so that.
Her main weakness is the fact that she can't kill and her juggling problem since she has a lack of aerial mobility. But I seriously hate playing against all 4 of the characters that he named next, Snake is annoying, Dedede am I just bad against, GnW kills really early but isn't too terrible, and it's hard to punish a good Peach.
Her main weakness is the fact that she can't kill and her juggling problem since she has a lack of aerial mobility. But I seriously hate playing against all 4 of the characters that he named next, Snake is annoying, Dedede am I just bad against, GnW kills really early but isn't too terrible, and it's hard to punish a good Peach.
dettadeus
Smash Lord
Just out of curiosity, can someone give me a frame-by-frame breakdown of the DACUS inputs? I was screwing around with making TAS stuff and couldn't get Sheik's to work, even though I can do it consistently on a controller.
I could never get DACUS to happen in frame-by-frame mode. I believe you're supposed to input dash attack, then input upsmash between 2 and 4 frames later (1 frame later can't be detected because there'd be no difference between the A input of the dash attack and the A input of the upsmash).
dettadeus
Smash Lord
Thanks a bunch, got it to work. Dash > 1 frame of A > 1 empty frame > 1+ frames of Up + Cstick Up + A.
Dcold
Smash Lord
I ask once again, how the **** do you play against Olimar. I hate the damn character. Ban him.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Olimar is no fun.
You have to work your way inside through the pikmin spam. Utilt will be your utility to clear pikmin. Jab, and Ftilt will work as well; also, Ftilt will stale as you Ftilt pikmin so that'll be helpful. Soft Nair will also beat non purple Usmashes so you can mix that in for approaches.
The whole thing is either push him to the ledge or keep him in the air. Both of those areas, he's a dead duck but definitely be wary of whistle armor for counters. Utilt will be another utility move for whistle landings as well.
If you do get close, he has no answers aside from masterful SDI to counter our hits so we can really obliterate him.
A funny thing to note, it isn't too bad to take some early pikmin damage just to we can possibly disrupt some early Olimar combos. A little theorycraft yes, but I'll try it out lol.
You have to work your way inside through the pikmin spam. Utilt will be your utility to clear pikmin. Jab, and Ftilt will work as well; also, Ftilt will stale as you Ftilt pikmin so that'll be helpful. Soft Nair will also beat non purple Usmashes so you can mix that in for approaches.
The whole thing is either push him to the ledge or keep him in the air. Both of those areas, he's a dead duck but definitely be wary of whistle armor for counters. Utilt will be another utility move for whistle landings as well.
If you do get close, he has no answers aside from masterful SDI to counter our hits so we can really obliterate him.
A funny thing to note, it isn't too bad to take some early pikmin damage just to we can possibly disrupt some early Olimar combos. A little theorycraft yes, but I'll try it out lol.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
I would focus more on being able to mash out of his grabs at 0 since u have sooooo much time to do it. Did reflex show u how he mashes? I tried it out and it works stupid good o.0. mashed out of an ICs grab at 90% with it...xD
also focus on being able to sdi his upair.u can literally hit him for upairing u if he rising upairs against like any character once u get the sdi-movements for u character down. For example, with pit i sdi up so i can trade a dair with him so he's above me. For sheik you'd probably wanna do down/away or simply up to escape the situation. Down and away can land u a bair more than likely.
Dcold
Smash Lord
How does Reflex mash? Dabuz showed me how to mash so I do it his way.
If Sheik chain jackets an aerial, can it be clanked with to stop the move?
Dcold
Smash Lord
For the reason you were named, THAT is what you ask, lmao.
I don't really know, I've not used the jacket with an aerial, nor do I use it frequently, but the hitbox is so weird for the jacket that I wouldn't be 100% sure.
I don't really know, I've not used the jacket with an aerial, nor do I use it frequently, but the hitbox is so weird for the jacket that I wouldn't be 100% sure.
Oh, I didn't see your question at all. I didn't namesearch my way in here--I asked for general Sheik information I wanted to know.
You know, every time I go to a large tournament, someone asks me how I mash. I really should just make a video.
Left hand just rotates the control stick. Bonus points if you can press the L button, but it's not necessary.
Right hand is most important. Take your thumb and point at 8 o'clock, covering the four face buttons. Then you shake your wrist and forearm vigorously, sort of like how would if you were shaking a fist at someone. That is much faster than moving your thumb itself. Again, bonus points if you can press the R button, but, it's not necessary.
It's actually rather physically-exerting, but, it'll get you out of a grab.
You know, every time I go to a large tournament, someone asks me how I mash. I really should just make a video.
Left hand just rotates the control stick. Bonus points if you can press the L button, but it's not necessary.
Right hand is most important. Take your thumb and point at 8 o'clock, covering the four face buttons. Then you shake your wrist and forearm vigorously, sort of like how would if you were shaking a fist at someone. That is much faster than moving your thumb itself. Again, bonus points if you can press the R button, but, it's not necessary.
It's actually rather physically-exerting, but, it'll get you out of a grab.
Dcold
Smash Lord
Do you change X/Y to anything?
I change X to Grab, but that's specifically to make the Wario chaingrab easier for me to do. It doesn't help the mashing process at all.