Gimpyfish's Brawl Impressions - Brawl Talk Episode 1 Added

[Soft3x]

Gimpyfish, It would be awsome if you could look up the alternative costumes and write them down on this tread?

 

[craiigg]

awesomee i think the news ive heard is really really refreshing.. like,
hell i'll miss the fun of wavedashing and l-cancelling but with our knowledge of smash physics and what to look for advanced techs should be easier to discover.

remember alot of the characters and stages havn't been shown so anything could still happen
brawl is awesome in my mind, no matter what ^_^
people are just used to melee, after so long we've all got attached, this will be a breath of fresh air to our community. : )

 

[Cojiro]

this stiff is really interesting.

It's all a bit much, isn't it?

 

[GOTM]

What is the new wavedash you mentioned?

i think he means ink dropping...

 

[raphtmarqui]

Im glad this is just a demo and things can change and be refined...

 

[TheBlackblaze]

Gimpy sure likes using the word "****"

 

[Mars-]

Ahh, I didn't read all of that.

 

[Big Burn]

i have a question... if there seems to be no l canceling and most of the aerial moves have not to much lag... does that mean that if someone tries to shield grab you your aerial moves have little enough lag as to where u can dodge or jab after a short hop aerial attack to prevent from getting shield grabbed?

 

[Cort]

That would be a great way to test if l-canceling is "auto" or not.

Unless... approaching in general was removed from the game.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Ding!

Reserved for info.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Wyvern]

Down B
Move Description: MetaKnight retreats within his cape and warps
Percentage: None
Knockback:None
Start up Lag: Minimal
Ending Lag: Medium

This attack doesn't reflect, it just allows you to warp a short distance in one direction. It's useful considering that MetaKnight's aerial game is weak when he is below the opponent. Use sparingly.

This move sounds fun, but I'm still not entirely clear on how it works. You say you can aim it upwards, right? Does that mean it puts you in freefall when it ends? If not, is there a limit on the number of times you can use it before hitting the ground, or can you teleport around in all directions repeatedly like a crazy person? Could it have some sort of application in recovering? Or do you just fall too far during the ending lag for any of this to really matter?

 

[h1roshi]

lolplease get some more info on diddy since that is who i intend to main. als, gimpy must be so freakin happy that bowser is better lol. i am sincerely happy for al bowser mains...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Kimosabae]

i have a question... if there seems to be no l canceling and most of the aerial moves have not to much lag... does that mean that if someone tries to shield grab you your aerial moves have little enough lag as to where u can dodge or jab after a short hop aerial attack to prevent from getting shield grabbed?

Spacing is much more of a factor regarding this situation than L-Cancel itself. I don't know if that's what Cort is implying.

-SynikaL

 

[takieddine]

Bowser+slow game+SmashDI= broken...

looks like bowsers are gonna replace foxes and marths, lol.

Also: making l-cancelling "auto" effectively breaks the game since no one will ever get grabbed again, you can just buffer a side step or roll etc..

 

[GOTM]

i have a question... if there seems to be no l canceling and most of the aerial moves have not to much lag... does that mean that if someone tries to shield grab you your aerial moves have little enough lag as to where u can dodge or jab after a short hop aerial attack to prevent from getting shield grabbed?

very good question, and i look forward to having an answer

 

[lanky_gunner]

nice information. glad to hear Bowser is better! rock on, and have fun brawling some more gimpy

 

[Jammer]

The air dodge. Obviously this is one of the big changes in Brawl. Airdodge is no longer directional, making wavedashing (in the same sense) impossible (be patient people we have more info on things like that soon), you can airdodge and then jump, but you all knew this already.
Honestly the lack of a wavedash as of now doesn't seem to be too detrimental. It's obviously a change but the change of pase on the game in general makes this seem like it wont be as important, especially with a few of the techniques we discovered being available (details on those later obviously)

Yeah. Some people owe Infil and his friend a big apology. Some psychologists who really don't know what they're talking about, but try to sound smart and forceful...

Sorry about that thread, Infil.

 

[craiigg]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but if you havn't tested already Gimpy..
you said fox's shine was cancellable, but also that in the air you were able to do alot more.

Did you get anything on the landing lag of the shine? If there is little to none, the possibility of JC Shines from 64 ( Jump then quickly shine, with the shine cancelling the jump and the landing cancelling the shine ) sounds like it could work?

If im wrong then sorry XD just a thought

 

[Piggingator]

This thread is full of win and own! Thanks Gimpy and Co!

Can I also ask what everyone's alt costumes are if you guys know of any?

Pink Samus = Own

Wh-what?! Ike is slow????!!! SAY IT ISN'T SO!!! D: Even if he is slow, I WILL main him. XP

"They have to toss in another FE character to counter his suckiness. Come on, Marth!"

Heck YES!!! 8D

 

[Cruise]

gimpy do you think debug menu will be in (leading to frama data analysis, discovering certain glitches, physics, etc)

 

[raphtmarqui]

I know Brawl isn't Melee 2.0, but I just wanna know in general if the game feels better or worse than Melee overall?

 

[Hejiru]

So they nerfed Fox, huh?

Meta Knight is the new Fox!

 

[shanus]

nice EPF, i too am very interested in the idea of testing shield grabbing for auto l-cancels, also testing if infinite ledge stalls are possible with drop+B's is definitely a cool idea

Is sonic's moonwalk massive? It seems like moonwalk to his bair would be pretty **** solid

 

[Emblem Lord]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. In the podacast Mike and Gimpy said that Metaknight, Sonic and Pit were top tier.

Nintendo is gonna nerf them for the game's release.

 

[Galt]

So, you can't wavedash or waveland, and there's no L-canceling, and all characters are floaty, and the kill moves still have a lot of landing lag. You have to rely on DDing/pivoting now.

Basically, then, what you're saying is that no one will ever want to approach, and defensive characters will completely own the game?

Edit: Also, it seems to me that, with that little range of options for movement and varying attack speeds, the game actually isn't going to be balanced. The best character is going to be the one who can outspace all the others, because he'll be the only one who can approach. I see the potential here for this game to have one character who dominates far harder than Fox ever did; at least you had to work really hard to make Fox that good.

 

[-Darc-]

I wish Darc would give his name to me. >_>

 

[BUM163]

does everyone have different weight, cuz it seemz 2 me everyone dies like at 130 plus n i hope there is. is the d.i like melee or there ain't no d.i? can u keep grabbin ledge 2 get invincliblity or did they change that?they have 2months n half to fix things up so lets see wat they do. i heard melee was different wit itz playable demo compare 2 the actual game.

 

[Inkslinger]

bum, i got a feeling you'll be disappointed, they really meant it when they said things aren't going to be the same as before.

you can't ledge camp like before, because you can't press down to drop, you have to press back and you can just use hugging to grab it before the camper if they try it.

and there is different weight, but it's hard to tell in a way,cause everyone has similar falling speed (they all seem floaty),too bad there's no fod yet.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

I wish Darc would give his name to me. >_>

I wish you would give your heart to me.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well I guess that's how they mde the game more aerial based. More jump height. More floatyness.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

So, you can't wavedash or waveland, and there's no L-canceling, and all characters are floaty, and the kill moves still have a lot of landing lag. You have to rely on DDing/pivoting now.

Basically, then, what you're saying is that no one will ever want to approach, and defensive characters will completely own the game?

Edit: Also, it seems to me that, with that little range of options for movement and varying attack speeds, the game actually isn't going to be balanced. The best character is going to be the one who can outspace all the others, because he'll be the only one who can approach. I see the potential here for this game to have one character who dominates far harder than Fox ever did; at least you had to work really hard to make Fox that good.

Actually, with auto l cancelling, approaching will be a lot safer and easier.

 

[The King]

Character matchups, analysis and strengths/weaknesses should be taken with a grain of salt, to say the least. One CA community has played the Demo of the game for 1 day with not even a dozen of the characters, on a handful of stages, with a 2 minute time limit/4-player FFA's with items on very high and only 2 controller setups, the controls which seem overly-sensitive. I'll go out on a limb and say that our perspective of the potential of competitive Brawl is...currently skewed, as it were.

Better to focus on breaking the potential of the Demo's physics engine to see what kind of tricks we'll be able to employ across the board, first. And lol...seriously, with only 11 characters, trying to make any kind of tier list speculation will prove to be a waste of time, and a waste of hype. I seem to recall an old SBR thread early on about Mario being Top Tier in Melee, the first couple months of it's release.

The tactics we discover this weekend will help shape the metagame later on. In the grand scope of things, we know NOTHING so far.

P.S. : I vote for renaming the Ink Drop "Dash Canceling", lol. At least that could be 1 thing in brawl that sounds technical, lol.

King Out

 

[Emblem Lord]

Stop calling it auto l-cancel people.

Just say that all the characters had reduced lag.

L-cancel implies that the player did something to reduce the lag. For all we know the develops looked at the lag of moves in melee and decied to cut the time in half for brawl and that's how the engine works.

It's not an auto l-cancel just a slightly tweaked fighting engine.

 

[shanus]

wait Ink, you can't press down to drop from a ledge anymore?

 

[BUM163]

word the king is right. 2 early 2 speculate anything. i know everyone falls the same speed, but wat i mean is if fox does an up smash 2 metaknight at 120 n he dies, will bowser or dk die at the same percentage, cuz if so thatz mad corny. remember just cuz there ain't no wavedash sakurai probably just threw this one in there n in the real game there can b wavedashin wit extras n he can tune the speed up. otha than that 4 now b disappointed lol

 

[CT Chia]

couple ques:
-is footstool jumping really a useful edgeguard? i heard some cool things were done with it, but is there an easy way to counter it? and can every character do it?
-how does sonic do the dive in the air? is it B down or something else? if it is, that would mean two differ down B moves, depending on if ur on the ground or not.
-do u think final smashes will be tourny legal? i think they will thanks to the balance in them weve seen recently, but u would have a much better understandng after playing it lol

 

[Inkslinger]

King i actually agree with you to just rename it dash cancelling......it makes more sense since it isn't a drop.

bum no, actually weight differences matter the most now cause falling differences are minor. So big characters will be harder to kill.

 

[Zhilo]

Gimpy, does Bowser still have red and black colors? I really liked those.

Oh, and now that you have ***** everyone with Bowser, they will think he's overpowered!, if Bowser gets nerfed, it's your fault.

 

[-Darc-]

Darc, are you Darc the Jiggs player? As in SleepyK took your account and won't give it back?

He is not. lolool sliq

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I don't see what everyone is whining about. It's a new game. I want it to be different from melee but still awesome. As long as there's DI, and the game isn't filled with characters that are too weak or too powerful relative to each other, there'll be room for competition.

Different characters are going to be good. There's probably at least another 20-30 characters that were not in the demo. We don't know yet how good they are in relation to the ones in the demo. Just because Metaknight seems powerful in relation to the demo characters doesn't mean that he will be in the final version.

Just because aerial lag is reduced in general doesn't mean that no one will ever get grabbed again. As long as there is a shield, there'll be ways to pressure your opponent into shielding so you can grab them. If they always buffer a sidestep after approaching with an aerial, that'll be punishable too. And who is to say that there won't be new advanced techniques discovered? they've only had the demo of the game for one day. Many of melee's advanced techniques took years to discover and implement.