Gentleman to grab is safe?

[Witchblade]

The gentleman has only 5 frames of ending lag. I don't know how much shield stun the knee causes, but if it's 11 or more frames, the grab will work even if the opponent buffered a spot dodge.

Wtf?

 

[0Room]

Sounds good
I might try this

 

[Mokumo]

yes it works. especially on marth. gentleman -> uthrow -> knee is a combo that works (on marth at least). and *****.

gentleman -> knee works too especially if they miss the tech. you can also gentleman -> techchase into just about anything.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

he means gentleman->garaunteed grab on shield, which is not garaunteed.
not that normal gentleman->grab works unless they dont know what di and/or cc is.

 

[Mokumo]

ahhh yes. that's way different. in that case I try to either bust out the rapid punches or dash away.

as long as you don't get shield grabbed you have the advantage

 

[Metal Reeper]

My lilttle brother does that, it works. If they buffer a roll though they can probably get out. If they try and sheild grab, you can get the grab first.

How exactly do you gentlemen? A A A+Z?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I gentleman as A A Z.

Grab definitely isn't guaranteed. It's pretty situational.

 

[Mokumo]

A+A+A and then HOLD A the third time until you do something else (shield, jump, dash, crouch, any B move, etc)

its very easy

 

[iamjason8]

Wow, awesome stuff, thanks!

 

[J_Noodles]

For AAA+Z gentleman, What you do is A-A-Hold Last A, and while your holding the A button press Z, then let go of A. I usually do this, or cancel the gentleman with dash by doing the above, but instead of pressing z, dash.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

My lilttle brother does that, it works. If they buffer a roll though they can probably get out. If they try and sheild grab, you can get the grab first.

How exactly do you gentlemen? A A A+Z?

a-a-a in any ****ing timing i want, because i play the superior version

 

[Walt]

I do the A, A, A+hold down until crouch>wavedash out. The only time it doesn't work is when I get impatient and let go early.

 

[Faithkeeper]

Does nair>gentlemen work on shield? I was pretty sure it did, but I messed it up in some friendlies but maybe I missed l-cancels or started nair too early.

 

[J_Noodles]

A, A, A+crouch is good if you gentleman someone who is trying to cc it, because you can cc back, although I prefer A,A,A+Z.

 

[Deleted member]

Gentleman to grab is absolutely not safe

mostly because hitting somebodys shield while being in shield grab range --> 100% chance that you get grabbed. the shield stun is not enough

so even if you hit him a way where they can't grab you, they can get away no matter what

gentleman is still a very legit move though, just as good as shine

 

[Faithkeeper]

gentleman is still a very legit move though, just as good as shine

How does it make up for not being able to get you out of shield pressure? Shine already has combo and is less shieldgrabbable. (no sarcasm, just curiosity)

 

[Dark Sonic]

Because it makes "aerial on shield->gentleman" vs "aerial on shield to grab" vs "aerial on shield to weird delayed jab gentleman thing" vs "aerial on shield->run the **** away" a neat little mixup tree and landing either a gentleman or a grab is pretty ****ing **** (gentleman->get the hell out of there is also completely safe).

 

[Faithkeeper]

Because it makes "aerial on shield->gentleman" vs "aerial on shield to grab" vs "aerial on shield to weird delayed jab gentleman thing" vs "aerial on shield->run the **** away" a neat little mixup tree and landing either a gentleman or a grab is pretty ****ing **** (gentleman->get the hell out of there is also completely safe).

Good point. I hadn't thought of it like that. Man I'm stupid. anyway, does that work for all aerials?

 

[Wenbobular]

Gentleman -> get the hell out of there isn't safe on grounded enemies ~_~
Rapid A sometimes works if they're waiting for the knee to retaliate ... then you can usually buffer roll away after you stop mashing A

 

[Mokumo]

Good point. I hadn't thought of it like that. Man I'm stupid. anyway, does that work for all aerials?

pretty much but especially with knee and stomp you have to have good spacing or you'll get grabbed/***** right away

edit: that wasn't very specific. by good spacing in this case i mean you want to hit them when you're just about to land, and at a good sweetspot distance.

 

[TheManaLord]

buffer the roll if you do aaa hold z or aaa hold then use shield to escape

 

[Kanelol]

you can gentleman in or out of pretty much anything and it'll combo relatively well if you do it right

don't believe me? ask SS

 

[Witchblade]

Gentleman to grab is absolutely not safe

mostly because hitting somebodys shield while being in shield grab range --> 100% chance that you get grabbed. the shield stun is not enough

so even if you hit him a way where they can't grab you, they can get away no matter what

Not that I don't trust your experience, but either the frame data on these boards or this information is wrong. According to Phanna's frame data, the gentleman's knee has 10 frames of shield stun. That means if you do a frame-perfect grab after the gentleman, the opponent's ONLY option is a buffered spot dodge. IIRC, even shine gets out on frame 2, so that would still get grabbed. Of course, especially in NTSC I imagine, it's just damn hard to do a frame-perfect grab after the gentleman.

tl;dr => assuming the frame data on these boards is correct, gentleman to grab covers all options except a buffered spot dodge. Step that meta-game up.

 

[Aussierob123]

The hitbox comes out of gentlemen before the end of the animation, and then you have shield lag because you hit the shield. Falcons grab takes 9 frames for the grab to come out, so 10 frames of hit stun is not enough to get the grab.

 

[Deleted member]

Not that I don't trust your experience, but either the frame data on these boards or this information is wrong. According to Phanna's frame data, the gentleman's knee has 10 frames of shield stun. That means if you do a frame-perfect grab after the gentleman, the opponent's ONLY option is a buffered spot dodge. IIRC, even shine gets out on frame 2, so that would still get grabbed. Of course, especially in NTSC I imagine, it's just damn hard to do a frame-perfect grab after the gentleman.

tl;dr => assuming the frame data on these boards is correct, gentleman to grab covers all options except a buffered spot dodge. Step that meta-game up.

im talking about real life, not some obviously wrong frame data

if you shield a gentlemen and they are too close, you can shield grab them easily 100% of the time

logically, gentleman to grab due to shield stun should NEVER work

 

[ETWIST51294]

S2J >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Math


real talk

 

[Doval]

I don't know who collected the frame data quoted in the OP, but it's certainly wrong. I just checked it out with Action Replay, here's the results:

Both knees:
* Hits on frame 6
* 5 frames of shield stun

Knee (not Gentleman):
* First rapid jab comes out on frame 22
* 22 - 6 = 16 frames between knee and jab hits
* Advantage: 5 - 16 = -11 (in other words, opponent can act 11 frames before the jab hits)

Gentleman:
* Lasts 22 frames
* 22 - 6 = 16 frames of recovery
* Advantage: 5 - 16 = -11

In other words, regardless of whether you do a gentleman or rapid jabs, the opponent has 11 frames to do what he wants before you can act. Most grabs come out in 7 frames, so that's more than enough time for him to grab you. Even if he doesn't respond immediately, going for a grab after a gentleman would be giving him an extra 6 frames.

 

[Witchblade]

I don't know who collected the frame data quoted in the OP, but it's certainly wrong. I just checked it out with Action Replay, here's the results:

Both knees:
* Hits on frame 6
* 5 frames of shield stun

Knee (not Gentleman):
* First rapid jab comes out on frame 22
* 22 - 6 = 16 frames between knee and jab hits
* Advantage: 5 - 16 = -11 (in other words, opponent can act 11 frames before the jab hits)

Gentleman:
* Lasts 22 frames
* 22 - 6 = 16 frames of recovery
* Advantage: 5 - 16 = -11

In other words, regardless of whether you do a gentleman or rapid jabs, the opponent has 11 frames to do what he wants before you can act. Most grabs come out in 7 frames, so that's more than enough time for him to grab you. Even if he doesn't respond immediately, going for a grab after a gentleman would be giving him an extra 6 frames.

/thread

 

[Deleted member]

wat a doosche

doesn't trust me