Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[QQS]

Seen Here and credit to artist!

GENO AWAKENS!

 

[SkeffVEVO]

We've never had character reveals in Sakurai Presents but, for the sake of argument, that doesn't mean something couldn't happen AFTER the presentation. The fact that Nintendo decided to give us almost three times more notice on this then even General Directs really makes me wonder what's up.

My guess is that since Sephiroth releases in December they wanted to reveal the presentation date immediately after his reveal, which they did, especially if he launches on the same day as his presentation. This is entirely possible if, as you said earlier, there is no tournament or anything else like that for Smash announced on Tuesday.

What about WOL dlc. We literally just saw sephiroph slice Galeem in half so I wonder if there’s the possibility of WOL dlc that takes place after galeem is defeated.

It feels extremely odd to have a character slice and murder the main boss of WOL just for a trailer.

I doubt it's related to anything involving a WOL expansion (as much as I would love that). Sephiroth has an angel/God theme surrounding his character (especially with his Safer Sephiroth design) and Galeem's design shares these same elements, being a God/God-like being with a bunch of angel wings. They also used Galeem to foreshadow that it would be a villain being revealed in Sephiroth's trailer as it shows all these heroes fighting back against Galeem just for him to be taken down by an even bigger threat. It does a cop out making the viewer think the new character will be a hero to save them when in actuality, it's a bigger threat. It could also be another one of the many references to Advent Children in his trailer, with Galeem standing in for Kadaj becoming Sephiroth, one villain seemingly defeated only for another to rise.

Also there is Dharkon in Hero's trailer which was used for a similar reason as Sephiroth's but in reverse. It foreshadows it being a hero of light by showing Dharkon first before anything else, then Link struggling against dark characters, and then finally Hero shows up to defeat said dark characters while light forms around the area. Also if you've ever played DQ11 there is a huge theme of darkness and hopelessness that Hero's trailer shows by using Dharkon.

We didn't get a WOL expansion in Hero's trailer despite it doing the same thing as Sephiroth's so I doubt we'll get WOL DLC with Sephiroth's presentation.

It's funny that both of the Square Enix character trailers used WOL as a plot point and had the reverse of each other's themes. It just goes to show you how much the Smash team cares about their character trailers.

 

[QQS]

ARTIST HERE

GENO ARRIVES TO THE PARTY!

 

[Aerospherology]

Please stay seated and keep arms and legs inside the vehicle until the ride comes to a complete stop.

 

[The_Hypist]

Geno most likely will receive a Deluxe Costume with music. I don’t understand why it’s a bad thing necessarily, sure you don’t have a playable character but you’re acknowledged either way so what’s the big deal?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Geno most likely will receive a Deluxe Costume with music. I don’t understand why it’s a bad thing necessarily, sure you don’t have a playable character but you’re acknowledged either way so what’s the big deal?

You have to remember that a Mii Costume is absolutely not the same thing as an actual playable one. It's not a moveset directly made for a particular character. They're generic ones meant to emulate a playstyle, so an archtype a character can fit into. Realistically, the closest thing Geno has to Mii Gunner is that he could likely borrow a few moves/animations from... at most, really.

It's not inherently a bad thing or anything like that, but it's definitely just a consolation prize. It's understandable people aren't happy with that. In addition, the stigma also is around the factor that Sakurai actually said he wants Geno to be legitimately playable. That changes things a bit. Many are "all or nothing", and that's fine. There's no reason to be happy with something that isn't exactly what you want. That's not the same thing as overall understanding the situation.

I'm a bit more lax in stuff like this, of course. I'd gladly take anything from Quest 64 in Smash. If Brian was a costume pretty much forever I'd be satisfied cause it's one of my favorite games of all times actually having some form of representation. Does that make it acceptable to everyone? Of course not. Nor should it be. Acceptable is not the same thing as Understandable.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[Datboigeno]

Geno most likely will receive a Deluxe Costume with music. I don’t understand why it’s a bad thing necessarily, sure you don’t have a playable character but you’re acknowledged either way so what’s the big deal?

come on dude

 

[The_Hypist]

You have to remember that a Mii Costume is absolutely not the same thing as an actual playable one. It's not a moveset directly made for a particular character. They're generic ones meant to emulate a playstyle, so an archtype a character can fit into. Realistically, the closest thing Geno has to Mii Gunner is that he could likely borrow a few moves/animations from... at most, really.

It's not inherently a bad thing or anything like that, but it's definitely just a consolation prize. It's understandable people aren't happy with that. In addition, the stigma also is around the factor that Sakurai actually said he wants Geno to be legitimately playable. That changes things a bit. Many are "all or nothing", and that's fine. There's no reason to be happy with something that isn't exactly what you want. That's not the same thing as overall understanding the situation.

I'm a bit more lax in stuff like this, of course. I'd gladly take anything from Quest 64 in Smash. If Brian was a costume pretty much forever I'd be satisfied cause it's one of my favorite games of all times actually having some form of representation. Does that make it acceptable to everyone? Of course not. Nor should it be. Acceptable is not the same thing as Understandable.

I hope that answers your question.

Sure most people won’t accept it but at this point it doesn’t seem like Geno fans have a say right now. It’s much better than just a spirit and they can play the remix on any stage with misc music like the other Mii songs.

Yes I understand how frustrating it is that Ridley, K. Rool & Banjo got in but Geno most likely did not but you really need to look at the bright side. If his Mii Costume is deluxe it’ll be better than the one from Sm4sh and people will want to play Geno’s game to see why this puppet is important. Isn’t that why most people want Geno in, recognition?

You’re getting acknowledged either way, even if Sephiroth isn’t your cup of tea at least at the end of the day, Sakurai still saw your character was important enough to make a costume for them.

come on dude

Read above.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Isn’t that why most people want Geno in, recognition?

That was more of a thing for K. Rool and Isaac. Geno just seems to be about putting a character a group perceives as cool into the game for the sake of it. It's not like Geno is going to cause a sudden sequel or remake of SMRPG, and if he does, that is not the goal. The goal is Geno in Smash.

 

[Griselda]

Sure most people won’t accept it but at this point it doesn’t seem like Geno fans have a say right now. It’s much better than just a spirit and they can play the remix on any stage with misc music like the other Mii songs.

Yes I understand how frustrating it is that Ridley, K. Rool & Banjo got in but Geno most likely did not but you really need to look at the bright side. If his Mii Costume is deluxe it’ll be better than the one from Sm4sh and people will want to play Geno’s game to see why this puppet is important. Isn’t that why most people want Geno in, recognition?

You’re getting acknowledged either way, even if Sephiroth isn’t your cup of tea at least at the end of the day, Sakurai still saw your character was important enough to make a costume for them.


Read above.

Really, I'm not quite sure what your point is, or if you're trying to argue against something?

Yeah, a costume that better resembles the character than his Sm4sh one - and possibly comes with music - is obviously way better than leaving it at just the spirit, but it's still clearly just a consolation prize; that is, a loss for fans that wanted a fighter. Therefore, those who wanted him to come as a fighter will be upset that he didn't, and they have every right to. It's the same for any fan-favorite character that ends up as a costume. There are some people who would rather there be nothing at all if Geno can't be a fighter, but I at least definitely would take the costume's visible gameplay over just the spirit.

 

[Staarih]

I feel like if they take the premium/deluxe route with Geno's potential Mii costume, the aesthetics will at least be on-point: he'll actually have a face and the proportions of the Mii Gunner are pretty spot-on.

It's just the moveset that will take a hit, which is a bummer, of course.

 

[Griselda]

As another point I should bring up for why people would be upset about the costume - Geno and the Mii Gunner have pretty much nothing in common beyond 'shooting'. The base attacks of the Gunner are all like swinging the gun around and muzzle explosions and stuff, while Geno's base attacks are all about firing off physical bullets/pellets/cannonballs etc. The special moves are also entirely different from anything Geno does in the game - he doesn't fire missiles or bombs, and even the Mii Gunner's Samus-like charging attack is still just an energy ball rather than a beam like Geno Beam is. Geno's specials are really all just huge magic attacks - not just generic projectiles and bombs like the Gunner's specials are.

Something else that I feel people tend to miss sometimes is the fact that Geno doesn't have a gun for an arm, despite Sakurai's claim (which might be a bad translation or him making an attempt at simplifying the concept). Instead, Geno is loaded with guns throughout all of his joints and fingertips, and in fact he rarely switches his arms out of the 'hand' configuration if at all. Any fan art of him with a permanent Mega Man-styled arm cannon appears to be based entirely on Geno's Sm4sh costume, and not his actual appearance in SMRPG.

 

[Polan]

the only mii gunner deluxe costume that i (personally) think actually fits the gunner moveset is vault boy lol. maybe sans and cuphead if you really stretch.

 

[super88cloud]

so we´re less than 72 hours from seeing if the dream´s dead.
At least we will get a deluxe mii costume. that damned 5 percent will not let me sleep though.
well, if Geno doesn´t get mii´d. he will be the last dlc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wasn't Terry the only one without a Deluxe Mii? Or was that Banjo? One of them. Which means that a Deluxe Mii isn't guaranteed. But I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not counting Hero or Joker cause they didn't start doing them yet.

 

[Griselda]

Also... if Geno isn't a fighter and you aren't happy with that - let Sakurai and Nintendo/Square-Enix know about it. Don't harass anyone or send threats, obviously, but definitely do complain in a respectful manner. Respectful, but loud enough for them to hear. Just giving them feedback about what they've done is something that we should be doing anyway, even for the things that we like: Ideally they'll then know what does and doesn't go over well, what to do less of and what to do more of.

If Geno's a costume we still need to push for him, and push harder, because even if it won't save him for Ultimate it very well could open up a spot in the next Smash for him, or any future titles in general. Going silent and letting his support die because 'we're defeated and it's over' is the last thing any character's fanbase should do. We need to remain vocal about what we want (and again in case anyone tries to accuse me of stirring up trouble, I'm not meaning that we should send death threats or anything of the sort), and not only do we need to be loud, we need to plainly spell things out: "I'm glad that you continue to acknowledge Geno's popularity through costumes, but the demand is for him to become a fully developed fighter".

 

[Forthestarcapelad]

As another point I should bring up for why people would be upset about the costume - Geno and the Mii Gunner have pretty much nothing in common beyond 'shooting'. The base attacks of the Gunner are all like swinging the gun around and muzzle explosions and stuff, while Geno's base attacks are all about firing off physical bullets/pellets/cannonballs etc. The special moves are also entirely different from anything Geno does in the game - he doesn't fire missiles or bombs, and even the Mii Gunner's Samus-like charging attack is still just an energy ball rather than a beam like Geno Beam is. Geno's specials are really all just huge magic attacks - not just generic projectiles and bombs like the Gunner's specials are.

Something else that I feel people tend to miss sometimes is the fact that Geno doesn't have a gun for an arm, despite Sakurai's claim (which might be a bad translation or him making an attempt at simplifying the concept). Instead, Geno is loaded with guns throughout all of his joints and fingertips, and in fact he rarely switches his arms out of the 'hand' configuration if at all. Any fan art of him with a permanent Mega Man-styled arm cannon appears to be based entirely on Geno's Sm4sh costume, and not his actual appearance in SMRPG.

This is pretty much it exactly. You've got this guy who can shoot of his fists in a rocket punch, turn his entire body into a cannon, and call down beams of rainbow light from the sky... all of which are moves that the mii gunner doesn't even come close to replicating on even a base level.. It's distracting and only serves as a reminder that Geno is BARELY touching the roster, but still not enough to be in the game.

The mii gunner costume was a nice addition back in Smash 4, but that was more of a morale boost letting us know that he was on their radar. Now though... It just feels like it'll hurt all the more knowing that he's come so close, only for the boundary to be kept in place. The greater the height, the harder the fall.

 

[A.G.L.]

Also... if Geno isn't a fighter and you aren't happy with that - let Sakurai and Nintendo/Square-Enix know about it. Don't harass anyone or send threats, obviously, but definitely do complain in a respectful manner. Respectful, but loud enough for them to hear. Just giving them feedback about what they've done is something that we should be doing anyway, even for the things that we like: Ideally they'll then know what does and doesn't go over well, what to do less of and what to do more of.

If Geno's a costume we still need to push for him, and push harder, because even if it won't save him for Ultimate it very well could open up a spot in the next Smash for him, or any future titles in general. Going silent and letting his support die because 'we're defeated and it's over' is the last thing any character's fanbase should do. We need to remain vocal about what we want (and again in case anyone tries to accuse me of stirring up trouble, I'm not meaning that we should send death threats or anything of the sort), and not only do we need to be loud, we need to plainly spell things out: "I'm glad that you continue to acknowledge Geno's popularity through costumes, but the demand is for him to become a fully developed fighter".

Hello Geno thread hope you all are doing well.

Griselda I agree with you, except for letting Sakurai know. I do not think Sakurai has had much control over this pass. He even teased this when he spoke about Steve and how it was specifically Nintendo who wanted him. As for MinMin it was specifically the Arms creator and Nintendo who chose her. I’m not saying he had no input, but if Geno does not happen it may not be his fault. It’s more likely Nintendo and Square’s decision. I would take it up with Nintendo and Square Enix, instead of voicing disproved to Sakurai.

 

[Bobthealligator]

Do you think that this might be a signal that Geno's Costume won't show up in Sephiroth's presentation? His suit would be a tacit promotion to SMRPG, and Nintendo might save that game to announce it in the same month as a hypothetical Geno Mii Costume.

Either that or they're just saving it for SMRPG's 25th Anniversary.

I see no reason to believe this, they haven't done it before. I think they're just trying to spread the big releases out as we only tend to get one at a time. Now that DK's all in I imagine Super Mario and Earthbound aren't far off.

 

[Griselda]

Hello Geno thread hope you all are doing well.

Griselda I agree with you, except for letting Sakurai know. I do not think Sakurai has had much control over this pass. He even teased this when he spoke about Steve and how it was specifically Nintendo who wanted him. As for MinMin it was specifically the Arms creator and Nintendo who chose her. I’m not saying he had no input, but if Geno does not happen it may not be his fault. It’s more likely Nintendo and Square’s decision. I would take it up with Nintendo and Square Enix, instead of voicing disproved to Sakurai.

Yes, I'm aware that Sakurai doesn't seem to have full control over who gets in, but I say we should still bring it up with him in addition to the higher-ups, if only for the chance that he himself might then make more of a push of his own, too. "Not only have I wanted this in the past, our current customers want it presently as well", that sort of thing. Sakurai might not be calling all of the shots, but as far as I can tell, he's still a very important and well-respected developer. Given that as well as his seniority - which is super important to Japanese companies - I'm not sure if they would just repeatedly shut him down outright if he pushed for Geno hard enough.

That said, what are our options for legitimate feedback routes? Is there somewhere official where we can send them feedback and know that they'll actually see it, rather than something like just sending them letters or posting on social media platforms?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Geno most likely will receive a Deluxe Costume with music. I don’t understand why it’s a bad thing necessarily, sure you don’t have a playable character but you’re acknowledged either way so what’s the big deal?

Normally, I would agree. But I see Ultimate as Geno's last chance to get into Smash since Geno fans have been at this since the beginning of Smash in 1999. Geno's last appearance outside of his Mii costume was as a cameo in Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga on the GBA back in 2003. Geno's last and only main game appearance was in SMRPG back in 1996. We literally haven't seen the real Geno since before I was born 24 years ago. People who grew up playing SMRPG in the 90s by the next Smash will be in their 40s or 50s so I think it's now or never for Geno to come back. Sure, a new generation of Geno fans could come in and carry the tourch onto the next game. But I still think it's mainly going to be the older 90s SMRPG fans who were there from the start like Fatmanonice , papagenos , TerminalMontage , ect who will be the ones to both get Geno in and see it happen. Yes, we they couldn't have done it without us, but those guys pretty much built the foundation for this fanbase in the west and without them, Geno wouldn't even be a real possibility. It's do or die time for this fanbase and I think Geno's entire fate going into the future will be decided this Thursday.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

View attachment 295606

Seen Here and credit to artist!

GENO AWAKENS!

Its a headcanon of mine that Rosalina is the "Higher authority" that sent him and is a luma taking possession of the doll.

 

[A.G.L.]

Yes, I'm aware that Sakurai doesn't seem to have full control over who gets in, but I say we should still bring it up with him in addition to the higher-ups, if only for the chance that he himself might then make more of a push of his own, too. "Not only have I wanted this in the past, our current customers want it presently as well", that sort of thing. Sakurai might not be calling all of the shots, but as far as I can tell, he's still a very important and well-respected developer. Given that as well as his seniority - which is super important to Japanese companies - I'm not sure if they would just repeatedly shut him down outright if he pushed for Geno hard enough.

That said, what are our options for legitimate feedback routes? Is there somewhere official where we can send them feedback and know that they'll actually see it, rather than something like just sending them letters or posting on social media platforms?

If they didn’t agree with Sakurai this time, it’s unlikely they will agree with him later on. He can push for characters, but that depends if those characters are available from the start of negotiations. This is a big IF, but if Square Enix were the ones who said no. There is little he can do to change their minds. At the end of the day he has influence, but it’s their character. That’s why I said it makes no sense to go to him. It makes sense to take it up with Nintendo and Square Enix. Ways to reach them would be the same way to reach Sakurai. Through comments on Twitter, their YouTube videos, writing letters etc.
I just think people will fault Sakurai if Geno does not happen, but in truth he might have had very little sway in the decision. As he has said multiple times Nintendo brings him a list of characters they want and he lets them know if they can work. Key phrase here is Nintendo brings characters to Sakurai, not Sakurai brings characters to Nintendo. That’s why I’m not sure voicing displeasure to Sakurai would do much as he’s more of the middleman.

 

[Griselda]

Its a headcanon of mine that Rosalina is the "Higher authority" that sent him and is a luma taking possession of the doll.

I personally don't like this theory, just because it seems to contradict what little we do know about the specific type of star Geno is as well as the nature of the Star Road, where he comes from - from what I can tell he has much more in common with the Star Spirits and Star Haven. Lumas don't seem to be involved in any sort of wish working, and instead are like the infant forms of planets and galaxies.

That said, there's nothing that says Geno and Rosalina can't meet or be involved in some other manner. There are ton of various factions related to or run by living star beings, and they could very well all be branches of the same system for all we know.

If they didn’t agree with Sakurai this time, it’s unlikely they will agree with him later on. He can push for characters, but that depends if those characters are available from the start of negotiations. This is a big IF, but if Square Enix were the ones who said no. There is little he can do to change their minds. At the end of the day he has influence, but it’s their character. That’s why I said it makes no sense to go to him. It makes sense to take it up with Nintendo and Square Enix. Ways to reach them would be the same way to reach Sakurai. Through comments on Twitter, their YouTube videos, writing letters etc.
I just think people will fault Sakurai if Geno does not happen, but in truth he might have had very little sway in the decision. As he has said multiple times Nintendo brings him a list of characters they want and he lets them know if they can work. Key phrase here is Nintendo brings characters to Sakurai, not Sakurai brings characters to Nintendo. That’s why I’m not sure voicing displeasure to Sakurai would do much as he’s more of the middleman.

That's a fair take on the situation, and you're entitled to that. We both seem to agree that making discontent known is a good idea, we just disagree on how many people we should take those complaints to, and I'm fine with that. I'm happy to calmly disagree with someone without fighting, for once.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It seems like the momentum in the speculation scene has been going slower and slower and I'm not just talking about DLC speculation but overall speculation. Base game speculation was obviously more talkative. Fighter's Pass 1 speculation was somewhat talkative and quiet in between. Fighter's Pass 2 speculation is still talkative but even more quiet than Fighter's Pass 1 speculation from what I can tell. It seems like more and more people are getting tired and moving on. I don't really blame anyone as I was thinking of leaving myself after Geno's get's announced.

 

[Deleted member]

If they didn’t agree with Sakurai this time, it’s unlikely they will agree with him later on. He can push for characters, but that depends if those characters are available from the start of negotiations. This is a big IF, but if Square Enix were the ones who said no. There is little he can do to change their minds. At the end of the day he has influence, but it’s their character. That’s why I said it makes no sense to go to him. It makes sense to take it up with Nintendo and Square Enix. Ways to reach them would be the same way to reach Sakurai. Through comments on Twitter, their YouTube videos, writing letters etc.
I just think people will fault Sakurai if Geno does not happen, but in truth he might have had very little sway in the decision. As he has said multiple times Nintendo brings him a list of characters they want and he lets them know if they can work. Key phrase here is Nintendo brings characters to Sakurai, not Sakurai brings characters to Nintendo. That’s why I’m not sure voicing displeasure to Sakurai would do much as he’s more of the middleman.

That might be a fair point here. If Sakurai had full sway over the DLC he could of added Rex and Pyra by now. That still doesn’t explain to me why Sakurai didn’t add Geno in the base roster. I’m not sure he even attempted to add him. I hate to say this but, if Nintendo doesn’t care about Waluigi despite there being demand, then I’m not sure if they would take a character who is way more obscure. I still think there is a possibility of there being both, I’m not sure if it’s looking really bright.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

That might be a fair point here. If Sakurai had full sway over the DLC he could of added Rex and Pyra by now. That still doesn’t explain to me why Sakurai didn’t add Geno in the base roster. I’m not sure he even attempted to add him. I hate to say this but, if Nintendo doesn’t care about Waluigi despite there being demand, then I’m not sure if they would take a character who is way more obscure. I still think there is a possibility of there being both, I’m not sure if it’s looking really bright.

Think about this possibility: Even if Nintendo doesn't care about Geno or Waluigi, they might turn a blind eye over their biasness in respect for Sakurai's decisions. I think Nintendo will try and help Sakurai in getting any characters he really wants in.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

let Sakurai and Nintendo/Square-Enix know about it

That will do as much as making a change.org petition and by that I mean It wont do anything at all

 

[Fatmanonice]

Two days left. It's funny that I'm repeating essentially what I said before the Fall 2019 Direct: "Don't worry about it." It's kind of coincidental too because, fast forward a year and 3.5 months, we're now in the middle of another season and there's a lot of doubt about the future. Geno wasn't in Hero's presentation but Terry had already leaked so only one more pack was publicly known at the time. A lot of you here were despairing because even I said the odds of Geno being 5 were absolutely astronomical. Despite this... There was enough going on behind the scenes to suggest the Fighter's Pass wasn't the end and that at least 4-5 characters were coming post Pass. I'm basically going to say the same thing I said back then: things aren't as they seem and that's a good thing.

"What if Geno's Mii costume shows up on Thursday?" I would say that would be very interesting but I encourage you all to watch the presentation. Don't skip it to protect your emotions. Face it head on. As someone who has been doing this forever, you'll live. Trust me. There's a lot of strange things going on and it's not over until it's over. If any of you are feeling particularly anxious, be sure to shoot me up Discord and we can talk.

"Why aren't you freaking out?" Doing this has taught me to play the long game and play it well. I had to wait 8 years for Sakurai himself to confirm my Geno theorycraft from the Brawl speculation days. It's a big reason why I stick by my theorycraft and rarely totally bulldoze it if things don't pan out immediately. Doing this the last two years, I feel like there's enough I've picked up that I can confidently watch the presentation on Thursday and continue the waiting game no matter the outcome. All I have to say is watch and wait.

 

[Malo Mart]

Ok, can I be real for a second? In the offchance Geno's costume does show up this Thursday, I think our best course of action would be to, well... buy it.

There are many ways to show our love and support for Geno and SMRPG that might catch Nintendo's eye, but few are as direct as just buying the dang costume if it does come back. I mean, think about it. If the sales for the costume are high enough, it might be enough gauge the interest of both Nintendo and Square Enix and show that bringing back Geno as a fighter could be financially viable.

And I know that for most of us, giving that costume the light of day would be just demoralizing. It might feel like a slap in the face to spend money on the grave of our hopes and dreams. But is it? Even if you absolutely hate the costume (like myself, I think it looks pretty lame), I think those would be 75 cents well spent just for the possibility our prayers could be heard.

So pleeeease, I beg all of you, do buy the costume if it comes back. It's dirt cheap, and will surely help our cause more than it could possibly hurt.


... you know... all of this if the costume is back. If.

 

[MattX20]

Two days left. It's funny that I'm repeating essentially what I said before the Fall 2019 Direct: "Don't worry about it." It's kind of coincidental too because, fast forward a year and 3.5 months, we're now in the middle of another season and there's a lot of doubt about the future. Geno wasn't in Hero's presentation but Terry had already leaked so only one more pack was publicly known at the time. A lot of you here were despairing because even I said the odds of Geno being 5 were absolutely astronomical. Despite this... There was enough going on behind the scenes to suggest the Fighter's Pass wasn't the end and that at least 4-5 characters were coming post Pass. I'm basically going to say the same thing I said back then: things aren't as they seem and that's a good thing.

"What if Geno's Mii costume shows up on Thursday?" I would say that would be very interesting but I encourage you all to watch the presentation. Don't skip it to protect your emotions. Face it head on. As someone who has been doing this forever, you'll live. Trust me. There's a lot of strange things going on and it's not over until it's over. If any of you are feeling particularly anxious, be sure to shoot me up Discord and we can talk.

"Why aren't you freaking out?" Doing this has taught me to play the long game and play it well. I had to wait 8 years for Sakurai himself to confirm my Geno theorycraft from the Brawl speculation days. It's a big reason why I stick by my theorycraft and rarely totally bulldoze it if things don't pan out immediately. Doing this the last two years, I feel like there's enough I've picked up that I can confidently watch the presentation on Thursday and continue the waiting game no matter the outcome. All I have to say is watch and wait.

Exactly. I've been waiting for Geno since 2007, and I don't intend to give up until it is truly over and the Mii Costume returns. I acknowledge the possibility of Geno's costume returning being a possible outcome, but it's possible still for it to not come back. Geno did well on the ballot or so we thought if Sakurai's comments back in 2016 are anything to go by.

 

[Griselda]

That will do as much as making a change.org petition and by that I mean It wont do anything at all

On the contrary, letting them know about it will do everything. Letting them know is exactly why we even got the costume in Sm4sh and spirit in Ultimate - which, might I remind you, is base-game content - in the first place, instead of absolutely nothing. They didn't just decide to give Geno a costume because someone in the office remembered him one day, it was because the fans made it known that there was support for the character.

 

[pinshadow]

Two days left. It's funny that I'm repeating essentially what I said before the Fall 2019 Direct: "Don't worry about it." It's kind of coincidental too because, fast forward a year and 3.5 months, we're now in the middle of another season and there's a lot of doubt about the future. Geno wasn't in Hero's presentation but Terry had already leaked so only one more pack was publicly known at the time. A lot of you here were despairing because even I said the odds of Geno being 5 were absolutely astronomical. Despite this... There was enough going on behind the scenes to suggest the Fighter's Pass wasn't the end and that at least 4-5 characters were coming post Pass. I'm basically going to say the same thing I said back then: things aren't as they seem and that's a good thing.

"What if Geno's Mii costume shows up on Thursday?" I would say that would be very interesting but I encourage you all to watch the presentation. Don't skip it to protect your emotions. Face it head on. As someone who has been doing this forever, you'll live. Trust me. There's a lot of strange things going on and it's not over until it's over. If any of you are feeling particularly anxious, be sure to shoot me up Discord and we can talk.

"Why aren't you freaking out?" Doing this has taught me to play the long game and play it well. I had to wait 8 years for Sakurai himself to confirm my Geno theorycraft from the Brawl speculation days. It's a big reason why I stick by my theorycraft and rarely totally bulldoze it if things don't pan out immediately. Doing this the last two years, I feel like there's enough I've picked up that I can confidently watch the presentation on Thursday and continue the waiting game no matter the outcome. All I have to say is watch and wait.

I mean, genuine question, how exactly are we supposed to take the Mii Costume returning as anything but a raw deconfirmation? Especially when we have the precedent that they've already clearly moved a lot of the DLC costumes around?

 

[YsDisciple]

A few days ago I was thinking about Super Smash Brawl's Subspace Emissary mode, and how Geno had been intended for Brawl according to Sakurai. Thinking back on the mode specifically, there are elements within it that in a way show that Geno in Smash almost happened.

• The Halberd = Throughout all of Subspace Emissary (or most cinematic parts), Meta Knight's soaring battleship Halberd traveled through various different location; releasing Primids and other enemies, while also capturing many of the Fighters. The Halberd itself acts almost as the Blade battleship from SMRPG. The Axem Rangers although first seen at the end of Barrel Volcano, have been flying over the entire world map (unbeknownst to the player) locating the Stars to then hand them over to Smithy.
• The Subspace Bomb Factory + Subspace = The last sections of the Subspace Emissary resemble the last section of SMRPG; Smithy's Factory. The Factory itself has two areas; one being the otherworldly space with hovering platforms (where one encounters most of the factory-made enemies), and then there's the more industrialized section with the furnaces and the Factory administrators.
• Road to the Subspace = The Subspace Emissary has one of the most epic scenes within the campaign when all the heroes head out towards the giant warship protruding from what seems to be a Subspace Dimensional Gate. The Halberd, Arwing, Blue Falcon, Samus' Ship, Olimar's, all speeding towards the warship while dodging enemy fire. Although not exactly the same, this final trek to the last area of the game reminds me of a more peaceful trip from Nimbus Land to Bowser's Keep via the Royal Bus.
• Subspace Emissary and SMRPG Locations = Besides the final sections of Subspace, there are other areas of the campaign which are themed rather in a similar light to some locations within SMRPG. Skyworld and Sea of Clouds = Nimbus Land. The Plain = Mushroom/Bandit's Way. The Forest = Forest Maze. The Cave/Ruins = Kero Sewers/Coal Mines/Belome Temple. The Swamp = Tadpole Pond/Rose Way. Even looking at the Subspace Emissary World Map, it does give off a SMRPG vibe.
• Yoko Shimomura = Not going to go into to much detail into this one but, having the composer of the SMRPG soundtrack (in addition to other composers) does make you think, doesn't it?

 

[xNovaNebulax]

yknow what would make us excited and angry at the same time?

if they showed up the mallow hat, and then the bottom of the geno "costume" feet, and then you hear mario yell in the background, and the "costume" runs towards it, and a trailer starts xD

 

[Fatmanonice]

I mean, genuine question, how exactly are we supposed to take the Mii Costume returning as anything but a raw deconfirmation? Especially when we have the precedent that they've already clearly moved a lot of the DLC costumes around?

My stance is simple. I'm not arguing that the Geno Mii costume WON'T show up on Thursday, it's that it SHOULD'NT based on what me and a number of people know. If it appears, the situation becomes even stranger. On this note, on the off chance that it does show up on Thursday, it's not going to be "deluxe." It's going to be copy and paste from Smash 4 and with no music just like, well, all the other Smash 4 DLC costumes. It's not going to be treated special, it will just be "a thing" to pad out Sephiroth's Mii costume spread. Again, another reason why I'm not despairing about Thursday.

 

[Trevenant]

No one should give up hope. Even if the costume gets confirmed, that shouldn't change your stance on the character unless the costume looks so bad it scars you for life. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the possibility of it coming back and setting imaginary roadblocks like 'final fantasy has so many characters that its going to be them' etc. Likelihood is based on opinion (i am counting on it showing up) but what isn't is that its a possibility. I'm just saying this as ive seen some just completely ignore the possibility. Even if you dont think its too beneficial, it certainly can be argued that remaining open minded is less of a detriment in the long run instead of making up super quick reasons why it wont show up, as, like I said previously, that can be seen as acting defeatist and not acknowledging the possibility which just shows how they hypothetically think about its likelihood. Its just better to be objective about this sorta stuff in the long run.

Anyway, one could argue the only way is up (literally and figuratively). If the costume gets confirmed, it will help gain Geno even more mass notability which would help greatly for a third pass or a new smash game (admittedly somewhat less optimal) and thats just the start. And there is how he is pretty much confirmed if it doesn't show up. It'll all go fine in the end but these are somewys to do a really good and legitimate job at turning water into wine (insert better proverb here) so to speak.

 

[Snoop_nogg]

I would be happy with Mii Gunner Geno at this point. Better if he comes with a song or two. Even though there's a decent chance Geno isn't a full character. The upgraded Mii costumes, like Sans, are really well made. It'd be something if Geno ended up being a bonus side-character, like Piranha Plant. In any case, I'll be happy just to get some inclusion.

Side note: I'm really excited for Sephiroth, I listened to One Winged Angel too many times back in the day. He'll probably be the one that finally gets me to buy FP2.

 

[MattX20]

My stance is simple. I'm not arguing that the Geno Mii costume WON'T show up on Thursday, it's that it SHOULD'NT based on what me and a number of people know. If it appears, the situation becomes even stranger. On this note, on the off chance that it does show up on Thursday, it's not going to be "deluxe." It's going to be copy and paste from Smash 4 and with no music just like, well, all the other Smash 4 DLC costumes. It's not going to be treated special, it will just be "a thing" to pad out Sephiroth's Mii costume spread. Again, another reason why I'm not despairing about Thursday.

Plus, as you've disclosed before a while ago, there's the rumored 2B costume on top of the yet to be debunked Cacomallow leak.

 

[Firox]

I mean, genuine question, how exactly are we supposed to take the Mii Costume returning as anything but a raw deconfirmation? Especially when we have the precedent that they've already clearly moved a lot of the DLC costumes around?

In the event that we only get the standard Mii costume from Sm4sh, there is still the incredibly miniscule possibility that Nintendo/SE are planning to double dip and end up releasing Geno as a fighter anyway. Why? Because if they were to recycle the old costume with Geno himself, who would bother to buy it? If they want to get any cash for the old costume, assuming Geno would come as a real fighter, their only option would be to release it ahead of him.

Could you imagine the catastrophic salt/hype if Geno were to get revealed after everyone had already thrown in the towel? Fans would think all is lost, haters would be creaming themselves with joy only for the tables to turn deliciously against them? It would literally be the most epic reveal in Smash history purely due to all the emotions attached to it.

That said, and I can't stress this enough, this possibility is insanely minute. To be completely realistic, we will either get a premium costume (which I would take as a solid, inarguable deconfirmation) or the lame old costume and nothing more. Still, Sakurai has established himself as the Nordic god of Surprises, and also the Destroyer of Fan Rules, so really anything is possible. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.