Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[CopperKoopa]

Yeah, some people say a Mario character couldn't happen now because it would have been part of the anniversary, but Smash almost never reveals characters around their anniversaries.

But we also have to consider the tournament is not dated but slated for "Nov or Dec" and are we really going to get another Smash reveal before then?

CP8 would have definitely been an E3 reveal and if the team is "on schedule" then the character is very much along in development if not finished.

However, Nintendo calls the shots on when to reveal things. The Mario Anniversary stuff had been planned to happen back in March/April originally! So if they were willing to push back things this far AND delay a Smash reveal for an ungodly amount of time... I wouldn't be shocked if the tournament comes and goes with no new Mario character reveal. Even if Geno is still super likely and our next fighter, the tournament doesn't need him. And Nintendo knows this and easily could just be having Sakurai's team "hold back" until they decide if they want to reveal another fighter or not.

There IS the other option that the tournament holds off until Dec, post TGAs, and Geno/Waluigi get revealed there.... Waluigi certainly would cause a frenzy. Geno, not so much. But he could be bundled with something else and that would suit the TGA crowd well.

 

[YsDisciple]

Bringing back what I posted a few pages back.

Having internalized the left-hook of a reveal of Steve as CP 7, thinking back on Smash Bros. Ultimate's DLC cycle up to this point, I was drawn back to E3 2019. Before continuing, some things to recall from previous E3 announcements within Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's cycle (pre, and post launch).

• In the 2018 Nintendo Direct, we got a surprise Smash Direct at the end, in which halfway through it we got the reveal of Daisy as Peach's echo fighter, and it ended off with the reveal of Ridley finally making it into the game (a fan-favorite character).
• In the 2019 Nintendo Direct, we started off to a Smash reveal, with it being Hero from Dragon Quest as CP 2. Near the end of the Direct, we got a second surprise reveal with Banjo & Kazooie joining in as CP 3.

Remembering the E3 2019 Smash reveals, and going over what was shown in today's reveal of CP 7 (Steve), a thought came to mind. Steve's reveal might allude to what could have been E3 2020's dual reveal; it being a mirror from 2019's. "A mirror from 2019'? Say what?" On this point, I'd like to point out some details in regards to the characters that were revealed within last year's (2019) E3 Direct.

• CP 2, Hero from the legendary JRPG franchise of Dragon Quest (DQ), was revealed with four (4) different alternate skins one could choose from (Heroes from DQ III, IV, VIII, and XI). This character was the Square Enix rep in the Fighters Pass and was the opening reveal in the E3 2019 Direct.
• CP 3, Banjo & Kazooie from the self-titled, memorable 3d platformer-collectathon, was the near-closing reveal in the E3 2019 Direct. Although an IP original from RARE, since around the time of Nuts and Bolts, it is a Microsoft IP, making the duo the Microsoft rep. This character's inclusion was considered by many to have been THE fan pic of the pass. Also, Banjo & Kazooie, as stated by Sakurai in an old interview had expressed that around the time of Super Smash Bros. (N64), he had wanted to include the duo to the game. However due to the uncertainty surrounding RARE's fate at the time, that was not possible at the time.

The following points are speculative theory-crafting based on facts and educated guesses (i.e., NOT a confirmation). Combining today's reveal with the E3 2019 Smash reveals, led me to believe that this year we might've had a similar reveal pattern not simply in the matter of west, and japan favorite picks, but in specific, existing partner Company picks (these being Microsoft and Square Enix); only that the order of the characters would be reversed (i.e.: Microsoft's rep would be the opening reveal, while Square's would be the near-closing reveal). Heck, a bit tinfoily on this one but, even the Challenger Pack numbering could allude to this possibility as well; Microsoft's CPs being uneven numbers (3 and 7), with Square Enix's numbers potentially being even numbers (2 and 8). However, the upcoming presentation of Steve on Saturday will be key to determine whether what would have been this year's E3 2020 dual Smash reveal had been a perfect mirror of 2019, or an "assisted" or "improved" mirror. What I mean by perfect mirror or improved mirror is the following.

Perfect 2019 Mirror

• Opening Smash reveal is a Microsoft rep
• Character has different alternate skins (four)
• Character comes from a very popular franchise (in this case of a younger demographic mostly)
• Character's challenger pack will also launch with a themed Mii Costume Wave (if it is to be exactly like Hero's then they would be four; all from Minecraft)

Improved 2019 Mirror

• Same three first points of the Perfect Mirror
• Character's challenger pack will also launch with a themed Mii Costume Wave (rather than just Minecraft Mii Costumes, these would be of Microsoft IPs).

Now, all this is nice and what not but, the point I'd like to get to with all of this is that, following the idea of these two E3 2020 reveals having had been a mirror from 2019's, then the closing reveal would have been one akin to what Banjo's was in nature.

• A highly requested fan favorite character
• Character is from an IP that hails from one classic game from the pre-2000
• Sakurai had previously expressed having wanted to include him in Smash (in past iterations of Smash)

As for the fourth characteristic, since this time Microsoft was the opener, then the closer would have to had been a character from a Square Enix-owned IP. The Square Enix character that meets all of these characteristics is (imo) none other than Geno himself.

• Geno's been a highly requested fan favorite character, appearing in unofficial polls among the top 10s
• Character is from an IP that hails from one classic game from the pre-2000. Although originated from a Super Mario spin-off game, it was the ONLY RPG of its ilk from the Super Mario franchise that ever released. The Paper Mario, and Mario & Luigi spin-offs that came later both began as spiritual successors to SMRPG, but still were unique on their own.
• Sakurai had previously expressed having wanted to include him in Smash (since Brawl specifically).

Bringing up the Mii Costume waves; if this upcoming Saturday we do in fact see a Cacodemon Mii Hat that looks IDENTICAL to the one shown in the CacoMallow image leak, that would confirm that said leak was REAL, and would thus confirm the legitimacy of the Mallow hat. Geno would be "soft-confirmed" is this pans out. Otherwise we would have to wait until the CP 8 reveal sometime later to see if in fact the dual reveal of E3 2020 was going to be a reversed mirror of 2019.

For the time being, let us wait and see what Saturday brings. CP 8 should be revealed sometime around... January perhaps (3 month gap from Steve's reveal) if we go by recent time gaps (or forbid the thought of having to wait until March 2021).

I'd like to add to this that for quite some time (a few years actually), an odd yet charming promo began popping up here and there of Nintendo and Microsoft in which it was just an image with both red and green colors saying "Survive Together". This image promoting cross-play between Nintendo and XBox systems for Minecraft came up around mid 2018.

Spoiler: Survive Together image

With the fact that Steve was actually in the works for Smash five (5) years ago, these collaborative efforts between Nintendo and Microsoft make much more sense. Of course, we can't forget the previous collabs we've seen already such as Cuphead on the Switch, Minecraft that had come out during the Wii U era and has gotten quite a few titles on the Switch as well. The fact that at one point Minecraft featured Super Mario content in the game. Oh and something to note that may have passed unnoticed recently was that, the first two Companies to present in this year's Tokyo Game Show were in fact Microsoft, AND Square Enix. This last bit is important because it could allude to the fact that for both E3 2019 and E3 2020, these two Companies would be getting their reps for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's Fighters Pass (1), and Fighters Pass Vol. 2 (switching up the order between years). Would like to know your thoughts on all this Fatmanonice .

 

[DutchPichu]

I feel like Doomguy could still come. At this exact moment, and at the moment of negotiations, Doomguy was probably a Bethesda character. Remember this? https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2..._bros_future_nintendo_exclusives_are_possible From back in 2018. If characters need to be negotiated for for so long, the two years of Doomguy aren't weird at all. I am 99% sure that if Doomguy will release, we will see the Bethesda copyright right next to the character. At least, if that is within a year from now, before Bethesda is officially part of Microsoft.

 

[Fatmanonice]

In regards to the avalanche of new speculation yesterday, I feel like this revelation that characters can "be put on hold" for years definitely makes Mii costumes seem like a killing blow more than ever but also puts an enormous spotlight on the currently MIA Smash 4 DLC Mii costumes. Steve was being considered in 2015 while the Smash Ballot was still going on. Sakurai has already full on admitted that Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Bayo, and Banjo were added because of their performance in the Smash Ballot so it turns a sharp eye to the characters that got chosen to this point. We all know Inkling, Isabelle, Chrom, and K. Rool were all prrrrromoted characters and this turn of events further highlights that all the third party prrrrromotions so far have been assist trophies (Zero, Akira, Rathalos, and Knuckles), making it especially notable that Geno and Lloyd are still missing. What I'm saying is that these two especially could have been decided for Ultimate this far back but it's all about a matter of timing.

 

[MattX20]

In regards to the avalanche of new speculation yesterday, I feel like this revelation that characters can "be put on hold" for years definitely makes Mii costumes seem like a killing blow more than ever but also puts an enormous spotlight on the currently MIA Smash 4 DLC Mii costumes. Steve was being considered in 2015 while the Smash Ballot was still going on. Sakurai has already full on admitted that Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Bayo, and Banjo were added because of their performance in the Smash Ballot so it turns a sharp eye to the characters that got chosen to this point. We all know Inkling, Isabelle, Chrom, and K. Rool were all prrrrromoted characters and this turn events further highlights that all the third party prrrrromotions so far have been assist trophies (Zero, Akira, Rathalos, and Knuckles), making it especially notable that Geno and Lloyd are still missing. What I'm saying is that these two especially could have been decided for Ultimate this far back but it's all about a matter of timing.

and it's all the more critical to keep our eyes open on the Mii Costumes for tomorrow

 

[extremeturkey]

Yeah he looked thrilled
View attachment 287900

-He was in the middle of talking about how difficult a task it was to implement Steve, which explains why he had that pained face expression. He's even done it before......
-Why would he put out a video where he's frustrated and angry about his latest product? Don't be dumb
-He's written previously about how much he loves minecraft
-Even if you didn't already know that, it's clear he likes Minecraft by looking at what he's made in it from the screenshots he showed

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I think what’s gonna happen with reveals going forward is that a really big third party character will be revealed at TGA (Geoff showed interest and is open in doing something Smash related) and Geno could be revealed in a 2021 Direct. The majority of the audience are gonna be going “literally who?” if Geno shows up lol.

 

[owjies]

In regards to the avalanche of new speculation yesterday, I feel like this revelation that characters can "be put on hold" for years definitely makes Mii costumes seem like a killing blow more than ever but also puts an enormous spotlight on the currently MIA Smash 4 DLC Mii costumes. Steve was being considered in 2015 while the Smash Ballot was still going on. Sakurai has already full on admitted that Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Bayo, and Banjo were added because of their performance in the Smash Ballot so it turns a sharp eye to the characters that got chosen to this point. We all know Inkling, Isabelle, Chrom, and K. Rool were all prrrrromoted characters and this turn events further highlights that all the third party prrrrromotions so far have been assist trophies (Zero, Akira, Rathalos, and Knuckles), making it especially notable that Geno and Lloyd are still missing. What I'm saying is that these two especially could have been decided for Ultimate this far back but it's all about a matter of timing.

Agreed. I also find Geno and Lloyd particularly interesting because they were first referenced as potential DLC around the same time, Nov. / Dec. 2018. This is only a couple months after "Minecraft Content" was heard (Sept. '18) and a month after PapaGenos heard about Banjo (Oct. '18).

Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but if Minecraft's inclusion in Smash was 5 years in the making, that timeframe lines up with the, "The office is buzzing about SMRPG so I made Geno fanart," post from back in 2015. Assuming the rumors are true for a second, I wonder if negotiations for Cloud, Hero, Geno, and a SMRPG remake happened or began with Square all around the same time in 2015.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I can’t believe this soulless man is gonna be changing Smash speculation going forward

 

[Firox]

Detractors: "Cacomallow couldn't possibly be real. If it was, we would have seen the costumes by now. That thing came out over a year ago!"

Nintendo/MS officials: "Yeah, Steve has been in the works for almost half a decade....."


HMMMMMMMM

 

[ForsakenM]

Here you all go! Enjoy!

Spoiler: For Those Of You Actually Hating On Steve, Get Off His Ass

So just a quick one to all of you hating on Steve, and by hating I don't mean saying you didn't want him or you are either neutral or disappointing in his inclusion, but to those of you screeching that he's not a fan pick and now spreading this fallacy of 'guess sales do matter' let me remind you of something I said back when we were talking about Dragon Quest's chances for Smash.

I mentioned then that sales numbers truly do not matter, it's about the popularity. Any product can sell poorly but be popular or selling very well and not be that popular, though I will say these things are entirely mutually exclusive since sales and popularity are very often tied together. So, if you assume that Nintendo pushed Minecraft onto Sakurai because it would sell well and make them money you aren't wrong, but acting as if people didn't want Steve or Alex or Minecraft in Smash in some way is just flat out wrong. You don't become the best selling game in the world without billions of people loving the game, and when you have THAT many people who love your game there is going to be tons of overlap with other communities, and Smash is obviously one of those.

Stop trying to discredit Steve fans and Steve's success, and DEFINITELY stop acting as if Geno is a bigger deal than Steve and that he snubbed our boy because that is ludicrous thinking and frankly shining evidence of why people are so tired of Geno fans and hearing about Geno all the time.

Spoiler: Steve is less likely a swap and more just a delay

While still on the topic of Steve, I don't see any legitimacy to anyone saying he was swapped around from Vol 1 to Vol 2. I also feel as though it would make so much sense for him to be and opening E3 reveal and then Geno shows up afterwards. Think about it like this: last E3 opened with Hero and while it appealed to a lot of people because it's a big franchise it wasn't for everyone and it really wasn't a major Smash fans pick, but then B&K followed that up and it was the big Smash fan pick that almost exclusive appeals to them. You can't tell me that Steve doesn't fit where Hero was, albeit much more globally massive, and you can't tell me Geno doesn't fit where B&K did albeit even more obscure and a hardcore Smash fan pick. It's the same scenario with the same companies, just swapped places in terms of reveal order.

When you consider all the delays that have happened and that Sakurai didn't have the communication he needed with companies in addition to how difficult Min-Min and Steve have been to program, it's not wonder we aren't getting characters until this late in the year. Min-Min is basically confirmed that she was going to be revealed in March and dropped in April but Codroid 19 screwed that up (remember, Sakurai couldn't even get to Nintendo headquarters at one point). Steve and Geno were likely going to be revealed at E3 and Codroid 19 screwed that up too so they got pushed. When you think about this affecting both development of the characters as well as pushing reveal and release dates AND that is screwed up everything Nintendo so Nintendo needs to decide the next best time to schedule Sakurai's content amongst the rest while taking into consideration his delayed progress it all just makes sense that the delays are this long.

Even the amount of time things have been pushed back fits into this. Min-Min was supposed to be revealed in March and dropped April, but instead she came in June which is give or take four months. June having two reveals, one of them Steve, and then Steve gets pushed back to October which is give or take four months? That in mind, I believe CP8 is still coming this year and could easily be in November or December, but we need to keep our eyes open for the next release date for Amiibo to have a real idea. I might flip if the Amiibo release around the week of the VGAs, guys.

Spoiler: What I'm allowed to say about Vol 3.

Last thing I can talk about right now is what I meant about a third Fighter's Pass. Unfortunately upon review with the Brotherhood of Shadow too much of the information I have can threaten people's livelihoods, and since my name isn't Sabi or HotGirlVideos69 I refuse to say anything about the information I have than what I already did last post. Paying attention to the Mii Costumes tomorrow, in which I'm VERY confident neither Chief nor Lloyd will be there, will be a very telling factor.

With what I can say is just research that any of you all could do, just like when I brought up a second pass in July of last year. If you look at all the companies who are similar to Nintendo and Smash right now, you can see that just keep piling on DLC for the same game for years now. Tekken 7 and SFV are the current champions of this and yet even though it's five years/four years respectively since each game launched they keep adding new characters and changing up the base mechanics just enough to keep people hype and to keep making money. Soul Calibur 6 is on it's second pass I believe and SamSho is also on it's second pass, FighterZ is halfway through it's third and I think Cross Tag still has more DLC coming too. I think Nintendo has learned something from these companies in recent times, and they took that information and added it with the massive amounts of money they got from Fighter's Pass 1 (and likely will now with Steve's reveal for FP2) and saw that they can keep adding to Smash Ultimate and balance it between new characters and fan picks and make bank up until the end of the Switch's life cycle.

Now I can't say how long they will support Ultimate, but think of it this way: How many of the DLC characters aren't really a part of the list of heavily-requested characters? Joker, Terry, Byleth and Min-Min were not really heavily requested by the Smash fanbase, and that makes a majority of the current DLC characters. How many more characters are there that people really want? The list is still very long, right? So, if you can release between 2 and 4 fan picks per pass and make the rest characters that people will still be mostly okay with, you could theoretically make a lot more passes this way, right? Also since the game is still being updated, it can be adjusted to make room for all these characters.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I'm conflicted on Cacomallow, when do they make the Mii costumes? Maybe they just make them first and then wait for them to be released with the fighter? Also, is the same guy who leaked Ken the same guy who "leaked" the Mii costumes? Maybe Ken's thumbs-up is their calling card?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Okay, call me crazy (many of you do anyways) but I just realized something by re-reading my last post. The third party franchises that got Mii costumes in Smash 4 were:

SEGA: Sonic, Virtua Fighter
Capcom: Megaman, Monster Hunter
Square: Final Fantasy, Mario RPG
Namco: Tekken, Tales, Tower of Duraga

Sonic, Virtua Fighter, Megaman, and Monster Hunter all got promotions in Ultimate. Knuckles, Akira, Zero, and Rathalos all became assist trophies. What do these assist trophies have in common? Their associated Mii costumes came in pairs.

Tails and Knuckles
X, Exe, Zero, and Protoman
Rathalos and Monster Hunter
Akira and Jacky

The leftover third party Mii costumes didn't. Chocobo is a hat, not a Mii costume, so Geno was technically the only Square Enix costume in Smash 4. Heihachi, Gil, and Lloyd all came in seperate waves in Smash 4. Neither Square or Namco has yet to get any kind of promotion. Obviously there's not going to be new assist trophies so for Namco that basically leaves Lloyd or Gil and for Square literally just Geno.

Something to note too is that, like Heihachi, Gil is actually part of Pac-Man's taunt:

Namco Roulette

Namco Roulette is Pac-Man's up taunt in Super Smash Bros. 4 and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

www.ssbwiki.com

This was once discarded as a minor detail but, then again, look what ultimately ended up happening with Heihachi.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I really hope we do get more passes, ending it here would kinda be odd considering there is so, and I mean SO much potential for this game. Maybe after Pass 2 is finished Sakurai can take a short break and go on hiatus and then return with a pass 3? Just a thought.

 

[GenoToto]

I don't remember if I mentioned this, but there was once upon a time where Kris from DELTARUNE had been leaked as a "costume" coming up, right? (I think it was Fatmanonice that mentioned it..?) Wouldn't it be interesting if, during the presentation of another Microsoft representative, Kris was revealed to be the Special costume a la Sans for Banjo? I almost even want to put money down on that one.

 

[MattX20]

Okay, call me crazy (many of you do anyways) but I just realized something by re-reading my last post. The third party franchises that got Mii costumes in Smash 4 were:

SEGA: Sonic, Virtua Fighter
Capcom: Megaman, Monster Hunter
Square: Final Fantasy, Mario RPG
Namco: Tekken, Tales, Tower of Duraga

Sonic, Virtua Fighter, Megaman, and Monster Hunter all got promotions in Ultimate. Knuckles, Akira, Zero, and Rathalos all became assist trophies. What do these assist trophies have in common? Their associated Mii costumes came in pairs.

Tails and Knuckles
X, Exe, Zero, and Protoman
Rathalos and Monster Hunter
Akira and Jacky

The leftover third party Mii costumes didn't. Chocobo is a hat, not a Mii costume, so Geno was technically the only Square Enix costume in Smash 4. Heihachi, Gil, and Lloyd all came in seperate waves in Smash 4. Neither Square or Namco has yet to get any kind of promotion. Obviously there's not going to be new assist trophies so for Namco that basically leaves Lloyd or Gil and for Square literally just Geno.

Something to note too is that, like Heihachi, Gil is actually part of Pac-Man's taunt:

Namco Roulette

Namco Roulette is Pac-Man's up taunt in Super Smash Bros. 4 and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

www.ssbwiki.com

This was once discarded as a minor detail but, then again, look what ultimately ended up happening with Heihachi.

If Gil is shown off tomorrow instead of the Monster Hunter costumes, it does help improve the odds of Lloyd appearing later on in the pass

 

[MrJudd]

I think the one thing that we can say about Steve is that he blew the doors of speculation right open: while I don't think all rumored characters are going to be fighters, I think that all of them are coming in some way or another to the game. In terms of my predictions, I'm actually shifting them because I think I've gotten an idea on how Nintendo was/is planning to setup Pass 2 as the big finisher for Ultimate. Considering how they seem to be going all out on this pass, I think there's a good chance of both gaming icons from Sony and Microsoft (being Crash and Chief) coming to the game. Adding to that, the fact that Geno may have been in talks since 2018 may imply he's one of the bonuses.

In fact, if you link up Geno and Min Min as the 1 or 2 bonuses proposed by Sakurai before Pass 2, you'll notice something interesting on my predictions (regardless of order):

• Min Min (Bonus)
• Geno (Bonus)
• Steve (Gaming Icon)
• Crash (Gaming Icon)
• Chief (Gaming Icon)
• ??? (Gaming Icon)

All characters are probably being setup in a way where Nintendo would put the biggest mascots in gaming and finish Ultimate's DLC cycle with a bang: after all, how can you top something like this in the eyes of the General Public?

Basically, that's my prediction for now until more developments appear: I think a Pass 3 is possible, but I think that was the original plan for this one.

 

[a random user]

If Steve has been in the works for 5 years, why did they even have to greenlight a second fighter's pass instead of it being an inevitability? Unless of course the reason why it's 6 instead of 5 is because Steve was always intended to be extra DLC, and only came 2nd in this pass (instead of 1st) because he was really difficult to implement

Edit: Potentially Steve was supposed to be 5 and Byleth was supposed to be a bonus (which makes more sense thematically as FP1 was entirely 3rd party except for Byleth). In this scenario, the mechanics pushed him back and back again after the second pass was greenlit and Min Min was deemed to be the easier of the two to release first. Their weird balancing and playstyles were developmental gridlock which explains why the last few reveals have been...weird, comparatively

With this in mind I'll make the tremendous leap in logic that FP2 was not designed with Steve as the "Microsoft character", as he was going to be in regardless. I still think another Microsoft rep is doubtful, but it's entirely possible. Geno's chances weren't affected at all and I still think he's coming.

its also posible they didn't want to sell a $55 season pass (75 if the last 4 slots are a season 3), while it makes sense to anounce them all at onece, people would **** all over them for the dlc costing more than the base game, like they did fir fire emblem echos, so it make more sense to do it in parts
if they do a few character now, then "decide" to do more latter people are much more willing to go with it, even happy to see a second season

 

[Firox]

its also posible they didn't want to sell a $55 season pass (75 if the last 4 slots are a season 3), while it makes sense to anounce them all at onece, people would **** all over them for the dlc costing more than the base game, like they did fir fire emblem echos, so it make more sense to do it in parts
if they do a few character now, then "decide" to do more latter people are much more willing to go with it, even happy to see a second season

I gotta admit, it IS pretty disgusting to think about the fact that 11 characters/stages worth of DLC are equal in value to the other 80ish characters and 103+ stages of the base game. On the upside, Nintendo is making such a stupid amount of money off this that it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for Nintendo to decide on making a third pass. Who needs a whole new smash game when you can literally make the same amount of money with DLC alone?

 

[Super10ZX]

Had to mess around with my profile picture a bit, but I finally decided to add a Geno hat to my profile picture on this website.

Geno's still going strong, we're still going strong, let's get this show on the road!

 

[Deleted member]

I can't believe that I'm waking up at 10:30 AM on a Saturday just to see some Mii costumes so I can keep the faith in Geno. I don't want to worry people by saying that without context; I'm likely just falling into a dark mood based on the massive amount of information that Steve by himself implies. I don't trust a single insider or leaker at this point, not the ones that are in our favor and not the ones that are against us. It's all the wild god damned west and I feel like what I know is shaken.

I hope we get the proof I need. You guys carry on.

 

[YsDisciple]

Was looking now the Fighters section (by Series) on the SSBU site and ****, Smash as of now has 38 different IPs represented in a single game (37 if one combines Yoshi to Super Mario). This game is madness incarnate. By the end of it, this game will carry us all to Nirvana.

 

[Deleted member]

This sucks that we have to wait probably 3 more months JUST for another chance. But hey, at least Geno is still in the running. Hopefully, the wait will be worth it.

 

[Firox]

Was looking now the Fighters section (by Series) on the SSBU site and ****, Smash as of now has 38 different IPs represented in a single game (37 if one combines Yoshi to Super Mario). This game is madness incarnate. By the end of it, this game will carry us all to Nirvana.

Yeah, I pity the day Nintendo approaches Sakurai (or someone else) to make the next Smash bros. iteration. Talk about a daunting task. I seriously doubt Ultimate will ever be topped.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I really hope they just port Ultimate to newer consoles, like all this work just for one game?!

 

[Mr. Peepee]

We're probably gonna get a mix of returning costumes from Sm4sh, a deluxe style Mii costume, and some Minecraft related costumes. That's a pretty safe assumption to make.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't remember if I mentioned this, but there was once upon a time where Kris from DELTARUNE had been leaked as a "costume" coming up, right? (I think it was Fatmanonice that mentioned it..?) Wouldn't it be interesting if, during the presentation of another Microsoft representative, Kris was revealed to be the Special costume a la Sans for Banjo? I almost even want to put money down on that one.

The super annoying thing about this is that Mii Costume Guy's list could have been yet another case of something coming out super early. Some of Geno's supposed Mii costumes were leaked last July and he's not out yet so god knows when the November/December leaks will come to fruition. Cuphead is the only one that's happened so far. The frustrating thing is ... if Steve was 5 years in planning, characters like Hollow Knight, Johanna Dark, Ori, and Cacodemon DON'T have to show up on Saturday because we now have strong proof that literal work was being done on Steve as far back as 2018 (Verge, Xenother, and Hitagi all claimed photographic/video evidence of this) so stuff can be worked on well in advance and then just stuffed in the fridge until it's ready to use.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I really hope they just port Ultimate to newer consoles, like all this work just for one game?!

Just like Pokemon Sword/Shield, they can just re-release the game with both DLC Fighter Pass. Maybe they will re-designed the coverart to include some dlc fighter like Banjo or/and Steve, just to sell more. Posible change the color background from blue to something like golden ?

 

[Sigran101]

Never posted my thoughts on Steve. He was actually one of only 3 characters I specifically didn't want in smash. When I saw the splash screen, I was incredibly dissapointed, but after seeing the gameplay, he ended up winning me over. The crafting mechanic looks super unique, the music was awesome, and a Minecraft stage is actually the Minecraft content I actively wanted, so that part was always going to be hype for me.

Only downside is that he's 100% going to be banned from all competitive tournaments because his gimmick is turning legal stages into illegal stages, but I don't play those tournaments so I don't really care.

In short, I was wrong for being a detractor (though I never harrassed his supporters I was silently 100% against him)

Congratulations TheCJBrine I know you were a huge supporter! How does it feel to have both Banjo and Steve in after having to watch their fanbases fight each other? Must be super nice!

 

[Deleted member]

so stuff can be worked on well in advance and then just stuffed in the fridge until it's ready to use.

This thought, for some reason, provides me with zero reassurance and I think that's why I feel this way. Something must be critically wrong with my brain.

 

[CannonStreak]

The super annoying thing about this is that Mii Costume Guy's list could have been yet another case of something coming out super early. Some of Geno's supposed Mii costumes were leaked last July and he's not out yet so god knows when the November/December leaks will come to fruition. Cuphead is the only one that's happened so far. The frustrating thing is ... if Steve was 5 years in planning, characters like Hollow Knight, Johanna Dark, Ori, and Cacodemon DON'T have to show up on Saturday because we now have strong proof that literal work was being done on Steve as far back as 2018 (Verge, Xenother, and Hitagi all claimed photographic/video evidence of this) so stuff can be worked on well in advance and then just stuffed in the fridge until it's ready to use.

About the Mii Costume guy, who mentioned Smithy and Mallow, maybe, they may still be coming. I just think things just shifted around before even the virus happened.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Congratulations TheCJBrine I know you were a huge supporter! How does it feel to have both Banjo and Steve in after having to watch their fanbases fight each other? Must be super nice!

Thank you, I am very happy with both of them getting in, yesterday was awesome. I am now mostly content with Smash tbh, making my other wants be icing on the cake, but I still hope Geno gets in too.

 

[Jurae818]

Was looking now the Fighters section (by Series) on the SSBU site and ****, Smash as of now has 38 different IPs represented in a single game (37 if one combines Yoshi to Super Mario). This game is madness incarnate. By the end of it, this game will carry us all to Nirvana.

As far as I'm concerned, Yoshi may as well be. The potential it had in the N64 era fizzled out completely. Think about Donkey Kong Country breaking off from Donkey Kong Arcade and Wario Land from Super Mario Land (And Mario for that matter) and later on WarioWare. Yoshi is the sore thumb in that it's not a Mario-centered series but it refuses to break away from Mario like the other two did. As of late, I've come to like Boshi too and were it not for the Square ownership, I'd wager Yoshi and Boshi both could compliment the Yoshi IP and allow for more original elements that could make it more distinct from Mario. Sorry to get off-topic, but I've felt this way about Yoshi for a decade plus and it's very damning that there hasn't been a big shake up like DKC or Wario Land with the IP. And I still stand by the notion that Mario broke from Donkey Kong, not the other way around. The deviation that was present then may never happen with Nintendo as they are today.

If Super Mario RPG does get a remake or remaster, I fear all the unique elements from that game will be sterilized and made committee-friendly. It was more or less a Final Fantasy game with Mario elements and Geno a Final Fantasy character in a Mario-ized package. It really stands out to this day. Maybe it's for the best that it never gets remade.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Here you all go! Enjoy!

Spoiler: For Those Of You Actually Hating On Steve, Get Off His Ass

So just a quick one to all of you hating on Steve, and by hating I don't mean saying you didn't want him or you are either neutral or disappointing in his inclusion, but to those of you screeching that he's not a fan pick and now spreading this fallacy of 'guess sales do matter' let me remind you of something I said back when we were talking about Dragon Quest's chances for Smash.

I mentioned then that sales numbers truly do not matter, it's about the popularity. Any product can sell poorly but be popular or selling very well and not be that popular, though I will say these things are entirely mutually exclusive since sales and popularity are very often tied together. So, if you assume that Nintendo pushed Minecraft onto Sakurai because it would sell well and make them money you aren't wrong, but acting as if people didn't want Steve or Alex or Minecraft in Smash in some way is just flat out wrong. You don't become the best selling game in the world without billions of people loving the game, and when you have THAT many people who love your game there is going to be tons of overlap with other communities, and Smash is obviously one of those.

Stop trying to discredit Steve fans and Steve's success, and DEFINITELY stop acting as if Geno is a bigger deal than Steve and that he snubbed our boy because that is ludicrous thinking and frankly shining evidence of why people are so tired of Geno fans and hearing about Geno all the time.

Spoiler: Steve is less likely a swap and more just a delay

While still on the topic of Steve, I don't see any legitimacy to anyone saying he was swapped around from Vol 1 to Vol 2. I also feel as though it would make so much sense for him to be and opening E3 reveal and then Geno shows up afterwards. Think about it like this: last E3 opened with Hero and while it appealed to a lot of people because it's a big franchise it wasn't for everyone and it really wasn't a major Smash fans pick, but then B&K followed that up and it was the big Smash fan pick that almost exclusive appeals to them. You can't tell me that Steve doesn't fit where Hero was, albeit much more globally massive, and you can't tell me Geno doesn't fit where B&K did albeit even more obscure and a hardcore Smash fan pick. It's the same scenario with the same companies, just swapped places in terms of reveal order.

When you consider all the delays that have happened and that Sakurai didn't have the communication he needed with companies in addition to how difficult Min-Min and Steve have been to program, it's not wonder we aren't getting characters until this late in the year. Min-Min is basically confirmed that she was going to be revealed in March and dropped in April but Codroid 19 screwed that up (remember, Sakurai couldn't even get to Nintendo headquarters at one point). Steve and Geno were likely going to be revealed at E3 and Codroid 19 screwed that up too so they got pushed. When you think about this affecting both development of the characters as well as pushing reveal and release dates AND that is screwed up everything Nintendo so Nintendo needs to decide the next best time to schedule Sakurai's content amongst the rest while taking into consideration his delayed progress it all just makes sense that the delays are this long.

Even the amount of time things have been pushed back fits into this. Min-Min was supposed to be revealed in March and dropped April, but instead she came in June which is give or take four months. June having two reveals, one of them Steve, and then Steve gets pushed back to October which is give or take four months? That in mind, I believe CP8 is still coming this year and could easily be in November or December, but we need to keep our eyes open for the next release date for Amiibo to have a real idea. I might flip if the Amiibo release around the week of the VGAs, guys.

Spoiler: What I'm allowed to say about Vol 3.

Last thing I can talk about right now is what I meant about a third Fighter's Pass. Unfortunately upon review with the Brotherhood of Shadow too much of the information I have can threaten people's livelihoods, and since my name isn't Sabi or HotGirlVideos69 I refuse to say anything about the information I have than what I already did last post. Paying attention to the Mii Costumes tomorrow, in which I'm VERY confident neither Chief nor Lloyd will be there, will be a very telling factor.

With what I can say is just research that any of you all could do, just like when I brought up a second pass in July of last year. If you look at all the companies who are similar to Nintendo and Smash right now, you can see that just keep piling on DLC for the same game for years now. Tekken 7 and SFV are the current champions of this and yet even though it's five years/four years respectively since each game launched they keep adding new characters and changing up the base mechanics just enough to keep people hype and to keep making money. Soul Calibur 6 is on it's second pass I believe and SamSho is also on it's second pass, FighterZ is halfway through it's third and I think Cross Tag still has more DLC coming too. I think Nintendo has learned something from these companies in recent times, and they took that information and added it with the massive amounts of money they got from Fighter's Pass 1 (and likely will now with Steve's reveal for FP2) and saw that they can keep adding to Smash Ultimate and balance it between new characters and fan picks and make bank up until the end of the Switch's life cycle.

Now I can't say how long they will support Ultimate, but think of it this way: How many of the DLC characters aren't really a part of the list of heavily-requested characters? Joker, Terry, Byleth and Min-Min were not really heavily requested by the Smash fanbase, and that makes a majority of the current DLC characters. How many more characters are there that people really want? The list is still very long, right? So, if you can release between 2 and 4 fan picks per pass and make the rest characters that people will still be mostly okay with, you could theoretically make a lot more passes this way, right? Also since the game is still being updated, it can be adjusted to make room for all these characters.

i mean what even is the likelihood of a pass 3 why would they it seems like sakurai is kinda tired

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Here you all go! Enjoy!

Spoiler: For Those Of You Actually Hating On Steve, Get Off His Ass

So just a quick one to all of you hating on Steve, and by hating I don't mean saying you didn't want him or you are either neutral or disappointing in his inclusion, but to those of you screeching that he's not a fan pick and now spreading this fallacy of 'guess sales do matter' let me remind you of something I said back when we were talking about Dragon Quest's chances for Smash.

I mentioned then that sales numbers truly do not matter, it's about the popularity. Any product can sell poorly but be popular or selling very well and not be that popular, though I will say these things are entirely mutually exclusive since sales and popularity are very often tied together. So, if you assume that Nintendo pushed Minecraft onto Sakurai because it would sell well and make them money you aren't wrong, but acting as if people didn't want Steve or Alex or Minecraft in Smash in some way is just flat out wrong. You don't become the best selling game in the world without billions of people loving the game, and when you have THAT many people who love your game there is going to be tons of overlap with other communities, and Smash is obviously one of those.

Stop trying to discredit Steve fans and Steve's success, and DEFINITELY stop acting as if Geno is a bigger deal than Steve and that he snubbed our boy because that is ludicrous thinking and frankly shining evidence of why people are so tired of Geno fans and hearing about Geno all the time.

Spoiler: Steve is less likely a swap and more just a delay

While still on the topic of Steve, I don't see any legitimacy to anyone saying he was swapped around from Vol 1 to Vol 2. I also feel as though it would make so much sense for him to be and opening E3 reveal and then Geno shows up afterwards. Think about it like this: last E3 opened with Hero and while it appealed to a lot of people because it's a big franchise it wasn't for everyone and it really wasn't a major Smash fans pick, but then B&K followed that up and it was the big Smash fan pick that almost exclusive appeals to them. You can't tell me that Steve doesn't fit where Hero was, albeit much more globally massive, and you can't tell me Geno doesn't fit where B&K did albeit even more obscure and a hardcore Smash fan pick. It's the same scenario with the same companies, just swapped places in terms of reveal order.

When you consider all the delays that have happened and that Sakurai didn't have the communication he needed with companies in addition to how difficult Min-Min and Steve have been to program, it's not wonder we aren't getting characters until this late in the year. Min-Min is basically confirmed that she was going to be revealed in March and dropped in April but Codroid 19 screwed that up (remember, Sakurai couldn't even get to Nintendo headquarters at one point). Steve and Geno were likely going to be revealed at E3 and Codroid 19 screwed that up too so they got pushed. When you think about this affecting both development of the characters as well as pushing reveal and release dates AND that is screwed up everything Nintendo so Nintendo needs to decide the next best time to schedule Sakurai's content amongst the rest while taking into consideration his delayed progress it all just makes sense that the delays are this long.

Even the amount of time things have been pushed back fits into this. Min-Min was supposed to be revealed in March and dropped April, but instead she came in June which is give or take four months. June having two reveals, one of them Steve, and then Steve gets pushed back to October which is give or take four months? That in mind, I believe CP8 is still coming this year and could easily be in November or December, but we need to keep our eyes open for the next release date for Amiibo to have a real idea. I might flip if the Amiibo release around the week of the VGAs, guys.

Spoiler: What I'm allowed to say about Vol 3.

Last thing I can talk about right now is what I meant about a third Fighter's Pass. Unfortunately upon review with the Brotherhood of Shadow too much of the information I have can threaten people's livelihoods, and since my name isn't Sabi or HotGirlVideos69 I refuse to say anything about the information I have than what I already did last post. Paying attention to the Mii Costumes tomorrow, in which I'm VERY confident neither Chief nor Lloyd will be there, will be a very telling factor.

With what I can say is just research that any of you all could do, just like when I brought up a second pass in July of last year. If you look at all the companies who are similar to Nintendo and Smash right now, you can see that just keep piling on DLC for the same game for years now. Tekken 7 and SFV are the current champions of this and yet even though it's five years/four years respectively since each game launched they keep adding new characters and changing up the base mechanics just enough to keep people hype and to keep making money. Soul Calibur 6 is on it's second pass I believe and SamSho is also on it's second pass, FighterZ is halfway through it's third and I think Cross Tag still has more DLC coming too. I think Nintendo has learned something from these companies in recent times, and they took that information and added it with the massive amounts of money they got from Fighter's Pass 1 (and likely will now with Steve's reveal for FP2) and saw that they can keep adding to Smash Ultimate and balance it between new characters and fan picks and make bank up until the end of the Switch's life cycle.

Now I can't say how long they will support Ultimate, but think of it this way: How many of the DLC characters aren't really a part of the list of heavily-requested characters? Joker, Terry, Byleth and Min-Min were not really heavily requested by the Smash fanbase, and that makes a majority of the current DLC characters. How many more characters are there that people really want? The list is still very long, right? So, if you can release between 2 and 4 fan picks per pass and make the rest characters that people will still be mostly okay with, you could theoretically make a lot more passes this way, right? Also since the game is still being updated, it can be adjusted to make room for all these characters.

As far as I know there are gonna be four dummy slots left when Fighters Pass 2 is said and done. You mention the game can be adjusted to add more, but does the game not literally crash if you try to add more? Not saying that puts a wrench in a possible Fighters Pass 3 since they can just make it four characters, just a thought

 

[CannonStreak]

As much as I want Fighter Pass 3, we should probably end it at Fighter Pass 2 to give Sakurai a much needed break. He could surely use a break, even now.

 

[Fatmanonice]

i mean what even is the likelihood of a pass 3 why would they it seems like sakurai is kinda tired

There's only room for 4 characters left in the game's code after Season 2 and, given the 16 dummyslots were found before Plant even released, this could have been the plan all along. It's hard to say because, like I've been screeching about most of this year, there's good evidence out there that they're working on stuff outside of Season 2 but we don't have clear parameters of what.

 

[skydogc]

Okay, call me crazy (many of you do anyways) but I just realized something by re-reading my last post. The third party franchises that got Mii costumes in Smash 4 were:

SEGA: Sonic, Virtua Fighter
Capcom: Megaman, Monster Hunter
Square: Final Fantasy, Mario RPG
Namco: Tekken, Tales, Tower of Duraga

Sonic, Virtua Fighter, Megaman, and Monster Hunter all got promotions in Ultimate. Knuckles, Akira, Zero, and Rathalos all became assist trophies. What do these assist trophies have in common? Their associated Mii costumes came in pairs.

Tails and Knuckles
X, Exe, Zero, and Protoman
Rathalos and Monster Hunter
Akira and Jacky

The leftover third party Mii costumes didn't. Chocobo is a hat, not a Mii costume, so Geno was technically the only Square Enix costume in Smash 4. Heihachi, Gil, and Lloyd all came in seperate waves in Smash 4. Neither Square or Namco has yet to get any kind of promotion. Obviously there's not going to be new assist trophies so for Namco that basically leaves Lloyd or Gil and for Square literally just Geno.

Something to note too is that, like Heihachi, Gil is actually part of Pac-Man's taunt:

Namco Roulette

Namco Roulette is Pac-Man's up taunt in Super Smash Bros. 4 and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

www.ssbwiki.com

This was once discarded as a minor detail but, then again, look what ultimately ended up happening with Heihachi.

Actually I was in the process of looking this up but you beat me to it! (damn you day job!!!)
Though I didn't realize that about Pac-Man's taunt. Interesting.

Also I haven't said it yet, but 5 FREAKING YEARS IS NUTS FOR STEVE.
Wonder who else has been in the pipe that long...?

 

[NoOtherPersona]

There's only room for 4 characters left in the game's code after Season 2 and, given the 16 dummyslots were found before Plant even released, this could have been the plan all along. It's hard to say because, like I've been screeching about most of this year, there's good evidence out there that they're working on stuff outside of Season 2 but we don't have clear parameters of what.

is it possible to go past that?

 

[JoscarGamma]

There's only room for 4 characters left in the game's code after Season 2 and, given the 16 dummyslots were found before Plant even released, this could have been the plan all along. It's hard to say because, like I've been screeching about most of this year, there's good evidence out there that they're working on stuff outside of Season 2 but we don't have clear parameters of what.

I'd sure like to hear more, even if it has to be taken to PMs, unless its information that has already been brought up