Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[TX-55]

Btw Fatmanonice , whatever happened to the Paraleak? The one where Waluigi is supposedly going to be "last".

 

[Noipoi]

Today didn’t go exactly as planned, but don’t worry.

Geno? He’s in.

Crash? He’s in.

Never forget.

 

[Deleted member]

Minecraft was planned to be in Smash not 3, but 5 years huh? I can now imagine Geno being planned for literal years with DQ taking priority. I remember Sabi’s NoA higher up ambassador source talking about Geno, Stealth heard Geno, and of course the seven square memos.

nvm

 

[TriggerX]

With this game I do feel like Sakurai has commented on the character selection process way more than past iterations of the series. As a result he is really pushing this “Nintendo picks and I just make it work” set up.

 

[xpnc]

If Steve has been in the works for 5 years, why did they even have to greenlight a second fighter's pass instead of it being an inevitability? Unless of course the reason why it's 6 instead of 5 is because Steve was always intended to be extra DLC, and only came 2nd in this pass (instead of 1st) because he was really difficult to implement

Edit: Potentially Steve was supposed to be 5 and Byleth was supposed to be a bonus (which makes more sense thematically as FP1 was entirely 3rd party except for Byleth). In this scenario, the mechanics pushed him back and back again after the second pass was greenlit and Min Min was deemed to be the easier of the two to release first. Their weird balancing and playstyles were developmental gridlock which explains why the last few reveals have been...weird, comparatively

With this in mind I'll make the tremendous leap in logic that FP2 was not designed with Steve as the "Microsoft character", as he was going to be in regardless. I still think another Microsoft rep is doubtful, but it's entirely possible. Geno's chances weren't affected at all and I still think he's coming.

 

[Droodle]

If Steve has been in the works for 5 years, why did they even have to greenlight a second fighter's pass instead of it being an inevitability? Unless of course the reason why it's 6 instead of 5 is because Steve was always intended to be extra DLC, and only came 2nd in this pass (instead of 1st) because he was really difficult to implement

I think Zhuge talked about it a bit on ResetERA; Steve hasn't exactly been planned for 5 years, just that there were ideas about Minecraft going back and forth here and there. Seriously discussions about him didn't take place until later, which is why he's in Fighters Pass 2.

 

[gzmee]

idk about you guys but im vibing right now

 

[UberMadman]

I think Zhuge talked about it a bit on ResetERA; Steve hasn't exactly been planned for 5 years, just that there were ideas about Minecraft going back and forth here and there. Seriously discussions about him didn't take place until later, which is why he's in Fighters Pass 2.

That would explain why Vergeben said that Minecraft was getting “content” but wasn’t confident in what it was too. The puzzle pieces are slowly coming together and creating a really interesting picture about Smash Ultimate’s development.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

This is totally just me doing some tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff here, but if we’re going under the assumption that Steve was our E3 opener character, and that this E3 was supposedly going to be Mario oriented, then I find it very telling how Mario was the only other fighter who was CG animated in this new character trailer besides Steve.

If even the Smash Bros. reveals were going to be loosely related to Mario’s 35th, then it makes a lot of sense for a certain fan favorite blue puppet from the Mario series to appear as the E3 closing character...

 

[TX-55]

This is totally just me doing some tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff here, but if we’re going under the assumption that Steve was our E3 opener character, and that this E3 was supposedly going to be Mario oriented, then I find it very telling how Mario was the only other fighter who was CG animated in this new character trailer besides Steve.

If even the Smash Bros. reveals were going to be loosely related to Mario’s 35th, then it makes a lot of sense for a certain fan favorite blue puppet from the Mario series to appear as the E3 closing character...

Or a certain purple clothed lanky ass cheating ************... Or both, that'd be cool.

 

[Geno Boost]

My guess for the next 4 fighters left would be
78- Lloyd
79- Doomguy
80- Geno
81- Crash

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Hey I was just thinking about E3 closers, and if we look at the E3 Direct closers (so not the behind-the-scenes/show floor reveals or the pre-E3 Smash Direct with Royucas) we have these characters

-Mega Man
-Palutena
-Ridley
-Banjo

Now that’s a wide array of fighters, but they seem to be geared towards Smash speculation popularity. Mega Man and Palutena were part of the Smash 4 Elite 4, with only Little Mac being both part of the Elite 4 and making the base game roster. Banjo of course was fuelled by not only Smash Ballot but by requests in general as well.

All in all, not a bad pattern to see considering how Geno‘s strength is his support base from Smash speculation.

(Funnily enough, between Villager, Miis, Hero and Steve, the E3 openers all are blank slates with multiple alts. Inklings too if you count their unveiling rather than their confirmation)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Wait, what's this Crash document?

Here's Destructoid reporting on the existence of the document a year and a half before it supposedly leaked:

Rumor: Activision has a 'five year plan' for Crash Bandicoot, involves Switch

The trophy’s mine! Ages ago a toy company let it slip, possibly under penalty, that the Crash series was going...

www.destructoid.com

Basically there's supposed to be the existence of a document that outlined the plan of the Crash franchise for 2017 to 2022 to make him a global icon again. Last summer, several people in my network claimed Activision accidentally put it online for an extremely brief period of time on one of their websites. Many items that were in this document that were shared with me have come to pass like the Crash Mobile game and Crash 4. Supposedly according to the document, one of Activision's "goals" was to have Crash in Smash in 2020 or 2021, heavily implying that talks have happened and that there's at least been an attempt to get him in.

Here's me explaining it back in January:

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

I've been thinking. Sakurai said 'Fighter 6 is ready to present, we just gotta prepare some things first' making me think it's the CGI trailer and not the character (it only needs polish but will work for the presentation well enough). Mandy is saying it's Crash and his track record is perfect...

smashboards.com

 

[RingJ5]

If Steve has been in the works for 5 years, why did they even have to greenlight a second fighter's pass instead of it being an inevitability? Unless of course the reason why it's 6 instead of 5 is because Steve was always intended to be extra DLC, and only came 2nd in this pass (instead of 1st) because he was really difficult to implement

Edit: Potentially Steve was supposed to be 5 and Byleth was supposed to be a bonus (which makes more sense thematically as FP1 was entirely 3rd party except for Byleth). In this scenario, the mechanics pushed him back and back again after the second pass was greenlit and Min Min was deemed to be the easier of the two to release first. Their weird balancing and playstyles were developmental gridlock which explains why the last few reveals have been...weird, comparatively

With this in mind I'll make the tremendous leap in logic that FP2 was not designed with Steve as the "Microsoft character", as he was going to be in regardless. I still think another Microsoft rep is doubtful, but it's entirely possible. Geno's chances weren't affected at all and I still think he's coming.

Very much not a fan of the #7 reveal, but I’m really quite hoping that there was some weird **** going on like you’re saying. Consider this:

-It’s roughly Q3 2019. Development for #1-3 is over with, and now they’re all working on #4-6 instead.

-Suddenly, a realization: To make #5’s main gimmick work, they’re going to have to edit every single last stage in the game to accommodate it. They make the tough decision to swap #5 over to the next pass. Not to kick it off, but as the first E3 2020 reveal. However, this causes two major issues with their existing reveal plans.

-See, they’ve already started significant work on the Fire Emblem reveal trailer, which was intended for their March Direct. They planned this whole thing where it just looks like a regular FE trailer until the invitation pops up, which no longer has any effect when it has to be revealed on its own.

-And the second issue? It really does have to be on its own, as an FE rep isn’t the best fit for the Game Awards, unlike how a Minecraft rep would be.

-As a result, they cut Smash from the Game Awards entirely, and have to reveal the FE rep in the following month, in a bit of a clunky way that clearly does not match up with the actual CGI announcement trailer that they created.

-While things did get a bit clunky, and people generally aren’t too enthused about an FE rep ending off the first pass, the announcement of more characters does have most people excited.

-Suddenly, the CURRENT WORLD EVENT happens.

-Their plans go to absolute **** incredibly fast. What was once intended to be a March Direct to kick off FP2 with Min Min turns into a much smaller Mini with only the announcement of an “ARMS Rep”. Around this time, their DLC plans are fully set back multiple months. Instead of having ARMS in Spring, Minecraft in Summer, and Mario in September, everything gets pushed back. Attempts to get both their E3 Direct and a much-rumored September Direct to happen fall to circumstances related to the CURRENT WORLD EVENT, leaving there to be no real ways for them to announce two characters at once since they no longer want to do proper Smash Directs for some reason.

-Thus, it had to be decided: Minecraft in early October, and HOPEFULLY Geno in November with the tournament.

I’m really hoping that the November tournament actually lines up, because otherwise this legitimately really feels like the effective equivalent of us just getting Hero without having Banjo anywhere to be seen. Besides, they’ve had significantly short wait times between E3 reveals before, with there only being, what, five-six weeks or so between Hero and Banjo’s releases? They could easily repeat that kind of schedule, unless of course the CWE has further messed with all this, though Sakurai has repeatedly stated that the main issues were apparently balance-related instead, so hopefully not.

 

[Majalbatross]

idk about you guys but im vibing right now

your geno keychain pfp is my eternal mood

 

[Shado-will]

After a day of coming to terms on what the hell just happened, I’m actually pretty excited for Steve now and more hopeful for Geno than I was yesterday.

 

[DarkShadow20]

After a day of coming to terms on what the hell just happened, I’m actually pretty excited for Steve now and more hopeful for Geno than I was yesterday.

Same pretty much. Idk if I'd say I'm excited for Steve, but we definitely could have gotten worse choices or even another Square character that would have killed Geno's chances. Looking forward to tomorrow's stream to see the mii costumes and possibly the next amiibo wave.

 

[Deleted member]

As long as we don't have one of two things happen, we're good.

1. Another Square character is revealed.
2. The Mii costume from Smash 4 returns. NOT the Deluxe Mii crap, which is an astronomically stupid idea and serves for gate-keeping at best.

Apart from those two, we're still in the running. If one and/or both happen, then I think it's fair to call it quits.

Mini rant - Anyone unironically wanting the latter, I don't know what to say to you. It really is just an excuse to not have him playable. I bet the Sora and Reimu fanbases would be real happy if they got Mii'd, wouldn't they. No. Then stop applying it specifically to Geno and not other characters. The costume returns like Heihachi, they wouldn't waste time making a new Mii costume when one already exists. Stop with this dumb idea.

The only thing that affected us is that Geno is not FP7 like we all wanted, but like I said that was never concrete.

 

[okamifire]

You know, up until the part where you see the Minecraft enemies in the dark, the Steve trailer feels like it could have been a Geno trailer. Now, I'm not sure I buy into the double E3 reveal that you guys are talking about, but let's say it was a thing, and lets say that Nintendo wanted to be cheeky and do one of those double take trailers, sort of like how Banjo's was based off of K. Rool's. Mario could still be fighting the same group he was in the Steve trailer, except maybe Daisy would replace Peach. Mario would still get blasted and go through a wall, but instead it'd be Bowser's Castle. When the light comes to, it could be the Mario RPG team, as in you'd show up alongside Peach, Bowser, and then Geno making an entrance. And then maybe Smithy or something.

If I were adding Geno to Ultimate, that's kind of how I'd want the trailer to be anyway. And Bowser's Castle could be the stage, which I have no idea why hasn't happened yet anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, up until the part where you see the Minecraft enemies in the dark, the Steve trailer feels like it could have been a Geno trailer. Now, I'm not sure I buy into the double E3 reveal that you guys are talking about, but let's say it was a thing, and lets say that Nintendo wanted to be cheeky and do one of those double take trailers, sort of like how Banjo's was based off of K. Rool's. Mario could still be fighting the same group he was in the Steve trailer, except maybe Daisy would replace Peach. Mario would still get blasted and go through a wall, but instead it'd be Bowser's Castle. When the light comes to, it could be the Mario RPG team, as in you'd show up alongside Peach, Bowser, and then Geno making an entrance. And then maybe Smithy or something.

If I were adding Geno to Ultimate, that's kind of how I'd want the trailer to be anyway. And Bowser's Castle could be the stage, which I have no idea why hasn't happened yet anyway.

Yup. The odd fixation on Mario at the start, reminded me of Plant's trailer.

 

[okamifire]

Yup. The odd fixation on Mario at the start, reminded me of Plant's trailer.

They probably just wanted it to be a "Most iconic video game character of all time" (Mario) meets one of the "Highest selling franchises of all time" (Minecraft) scenarios, but I will admit I, along with most people, probably immediately jumped to the Mario Universe speculation in the initial few seconds of the trailer.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Btw Fatmanonice , whatever happened to the Paraleak? The one where Waluigi is supposedly going to be "last".

Like Geno, Waluigi has been in insider circles since 2018 and based on yesterday's news, that's definitely significant. If Steve was first planned for Smash back in 2015, characters taking years to pan out is no longer an obstacle.

 

[RetroBro]

People talking about Steve taking 5 years are not taking into consideration he's one of the only characters that required large parts of the game's code to be reworked.

This does NOT apply to all DLC.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Like Geno, Waluigi has been in insider circles since 2018 and based on yesterday's news, that's definitely significant. If Steve was first planned for Smash back in 2015, characters taking years to pan out is no longer an obstacle.

I wonder what element of Waluigi warrants this amount of planning or dev time. Maybe some extreme randomness mechanic or, characteristically Waluigi, bad luck with timing. Or they’re finding the right time to plan and announce bonus characters that keeps Waluigi from just being a scrapped concept that‘s canned in favor of others.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I feel like the next characters are gonna be
• Geno
• Crash
• A Gen 8 Pokémon
• Travis Touchdown
• Doomguy
I know there’s only 4 spots left but I don’t know who to boot off the list. Lets hope for Pokémon

 

[Fatmanonice]

People talking about Steve taking 5 years are not taking into consideration he's one of the only characters that required large parts of the game's code to be reworked.

This does NOT apply to all DLC.

Time is significant because it shows that characters can be picked and then shelved for literal years for one reason or another. For example, this opens up the prospect that Hero and Geno were probably picked around the same time but Hero took priority. That sort of thing.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I feel like the next characters are gonna be
• Geno
• Crash
• A Gen 8 Pokémon
• Travis Touchdown
• Doomguy
I know there’s only 4 spots left but I don’t know who to boot off the list. Lets hope for Pokémon

Actually got to burst your bubble on doomguy

Microsoft owns doom now so tomorrow for the mii costumes the cacodemon suit might be shown

 

[PatPrime]

Actually got to burst your bubble on doomguy

Microsoft owns doom now so tomorrow for the mii costumes the cacodemon suit might be shown

Well, the deal hasn't been finalized yet but if Bethesda put in one costume with Min Min, they might do it again with Steve. We'll see tomorrow.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Aren’t the choices for the characters and Mii coustumes finalized? I don’t think Microsoft buying Bethesda is gonna do anything regarding Doomguy’s chances

 

[okamifire]

I have to think that the Bethesda purchase would have happened much later than the decision to put characters in Fighter's Pass 2, but at the same time, you don't make a multibillion dollar purchase on a whim, so that might not be true.

I still would love to see that Cacodemon mii costume pop up and look like the one from the screenshot / leak before. I'm currently neutral on Cacomallow being real, like it wouldn't surprise me, but to get one that looks just like the video before would be in my eyes the most solid confirmation for Geno outside of an official release trailer.

 

[Enigma735]

Honestly, the only thing that really makes me salty about the fact that Geno isn't CP7 is that it was such a missed opportunity to have him take that slot, y'know.

Challenger Pack 7, Fighter #77, Super Mario RPG: Legend Of The Seven Stars...

 

[Firox]

I think it's funny how the mii costumes have been the most reliable predictor of what's to come. That said, looks like Saturday will be the "main event" as far as speculation is concerned.

 

[GenoToto]

Honestly, the only thing that really makes me salty about the fact that Geno isn't CP7 is that it was such a missed opportunity to have him take that slot, y'know.

Challenger Pack 7, Fighter #77, Super Mario RPG: Legend Of The Seven Stars...

It was absolutely perfect, but I think I started to lean away from that possibility because it fit way too well. Especially considering that, when you stacked on the additional coincidences that were involved via 7/7 this year, such as the date, and the festival that was going on at the same time, it was even more perfect, but nothing materialized from that at the end of the day.

The only thing that really petered out with 'perfect' timing, to my knowledge, was the Little Mac reveal on the Punch-Out anniversary. Aside from that, there's always been 'Wouldn't it be cool if X happened on Y!", with nothing really ever happening regardless.

 

[CopperKoopa]

You missed the point I was making. Steve was 7. E3 reveals have always been at least pairs. Everything you just recounted was for E3 2020's FIRST reveal so the question is who do they have planned for the second? By all logic, Steve SHOULD have been the headliner for E3 2020 but wasn't which is why my prediction for the longest time was either Crash or Chief. This is a big reason why this thread had Geno as 77 because we convinced ourselves that he would be the opening act at E3 at best but obviously Steve being picked as this year's Villager/Mii/Hero is a big game changer.

I'm late in response to this, but your implication is that we will get a Banjo/Ridley/K.Rool style reveal, yeah? Which would then make Geno a very likely candidate, as he's the current "peak" fan favorite.

But how do we know Steve wasn't the finisher, like Mega Man/Snake/Pac Man/Cloud? He certainly fits more in line with those boys, and they all ended a presentation.

I'm not in need of convincing because I'm not hard sold on this idea myself, but I could absolutely see all this evidence pointing toward Steve being shuffled around between the 2 passes, as I posted about yesterday. He may have been meant for base, FP1 or later on in FP2 -- we don't know. But it's evident to me, at least, that Steve may have always been planned to coincide with Minecon for his eventual release, not necessarily reveal. It works just too damn well.

I agree that CP8 is likely the other E3 reveal and is likely another fan favorite (i.e. Geno) but I can't shake the feeling that Steve was not originally intended to be the headliner for E3 2020 -- he just so happened to fall into that role due to circumstances.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Judging by his moveset, Is Steve taking so much time to develop the reason why we had this Smash drought for so long?

 

[Deleted member]

It was absolutely perfect, but I think I started to lean away from that possibility because it fit way too well. Especially considering that, when you stacked on the additional coincidences that were involved via 7/7 this year, such as the date, and the festival that was going on at the same time, it was even more perfect, but nothing materialized from that at the end of the day.

The only thing that really petered out with 'perfect' timing, to my knowledge, was the Little Mac reveal on the Punch-Out anniversary. Aside from that, there's always been 'Wouldn't it be cool if X happened on Y!", with nothing really ever happening regardless.

Agreed.

Judging by his moveset, Is Steve taking so much time to develop the reason why we had this Smash drought for so long?

Seems like it, honestly. Having to readjust everything because one fighter can place blocks must be a huge pain in the ass.

 

[EarlTamm]

Judging by his moveset, Is Steve taking so much time to develop the reason why we had this Smash drought for so long?

That is what some are thinking. They did have to to reprogram every stage in order to get his block mechanic to work, so it would make sense.

 

[CopperKoopa]

So, things just got even more nutty:

Former Mojang business developer says discussions about Minecraft being added to Smash Bros. started "at least 5" years ago

Not quite an overnight deal

gonintendo.com

5 YEARS AGO! Negotiations literally started the year of the Smash Ballot! Do you have any idea the kind of implications this has for future third party characters in this pass?!?

I saw the theory that E3 was supposed to have Steve and someone else, and to be honest, I think that actually lines up REALLY well with the Gamestop video claiming Geno got in Smash (when advertising Paper Mario) and may have kept the script / voiceover but just updated the visual instead of editing it out.

I'm not sure how much this holds up, though, but I think if Geno is 78 that actually would line up pretty well and makes sense given COVID setbacks. If 78 is going to be revealed before November (where the Mario event is being held) then I think there's a very strong chance Geno is that one.

Don't wanna give too much hope though lol so it's definitely a longshot but I think it'll be interesting to theorize about what the original plans were for the Fighter Pass when this one's all said and done and we know all the characters.

I both of these points should be pinned, highlighted, and in giant flashing neon letters. These are the keys to unlocking Geno's inclusion in Smash.

Gamestop clearly backpedaled and it's sus AF. Pack this with all the "insiders" talking Mario RPG and Geno around that time and it's get doubly curious.

And we can assume (it's a big assumption, I know) that Geno had a strong presence on the Smash ballot. All the fan surveys taken at that time to feel submissions out had him ranking anywhere from the Top 20 to Top 10 or even Top 5. And, if you go down the characters who placed on those fan ballots, you see most characters who are higher ranking than Geno are now playable, Mii costumes, Assist Trophies, or Spirits. Yes, Geno is a Spirit, and a Legend class at that. But he ain't a costume in Ultimate. Or an Assist. And he certainly ain't playable. Really makes you wonder why he feels so excluded from his peers considering he was a costume in Smash 4 and coincidentally released as a costume while the Smash 4 ballot was still active. Even characters who fell below him have more of a presence in Smash, and those that don't still are also highly speculated (like Arle and Dixie).

There is 100% some funny business going on with Geno and it's getting harder to deny. Though, honestly, I'm starting to wonder if he's being saved as FP2's denouement, the final reveal to blow us all away. Most final reveals are complete duds, but if this is truly the final character for Ultimate... it's a pretty Sakurai thing to do.

 

[Just a random scrub]

The only thing that really petered out with 'perfect' timing, to my knowledge, was the Little Mac reveal on the Punch-Out anniversary. Aside from that, there's always been 'Wouldn't it be cool if X happened on Y!", with nothing really ever happening regardless.

Yeah, some people say a Mario character couldn't happen now because it would have been part of the anniversary, but Smash almost never reveals characters around their anniversaries.

 

[Firox]

I was thinking, and remember how last year's E3 had Hero and B-K? That was 1 strategic corporate pick with 1 hardcore fan pick. What if this year's was meant to follow the same pattern? If Steve was the strategic corporate pick, then would Geno have been the hardcore fan pick?