Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Mr. Peepee]

Those are my thoughts exactly though my opinion on Steve is different!

Banjo without a shadow of a doubt, considering he was one of my most wanted characters and I am a huge fan of the Banjo-Kazooie games.

Terry was cool, but I had no history with SNK and all in all it was just a very "eh" choice for me, but I am at least more accepting of his inclusion since Sakurai clearly loves KOF and SNK, and it didn't feel like he was forced to add Terry. He seemed like a very "Sakurai" pick and I love it when Sakurai gets to have characters he wants.

Byleth in all honesty had me a bit salty. You have four huge incredible third-party characters in a row, but the one first-party character we get is just a shill to promote a game from a franchise that has already been criticized for being overrepresented, and to me it really seemed like Sakurai was forced to add Byleth just to promote Three Houses. At least Byleth uses other weapons aside from just a sword, but still.

Min Min was eh. ARMS was kinda predictable in the sense that it was a brand new IP from Nintendo, so obviously it had to happen eventually. ARMS was too new at the time of base game, so it only made sense to add it as DLC, but it wasn't hype at all because of how predictable it was. I was extremely hyped to know that Min Min broke the Spirit rule, but I personally feel some other Spirit promotion like Geno, obviously, or Rayman would have been far more hype to start out Spirit promotions.

And then we get Steve. I'm not too salty because I already got my most wanted Microsoft rep with Banjo, but after how long we have speculated for Geno to be CP7, all for it to be Minecraft Steve, of all characters, kinda felt like a mini slap to the face. I do have to admit, Steve looks cool, but like ARMS, it was kinda expected to get some representation, so I wasn't overjoyed to see Steve join the roster. [Also, I have tried out Minecraft in the past and I personally thought it was boring tbh].

So yeah, the last character that genuinely had me scream to the top of my lungs was Banjo. I seriously hope Volume 2 offers more exciting picks in the near future, because I don't think this Pass is off to a great start with all these "safe" picks.

 

[Deleted member]

How did this dumb crap get into Smash before Geno? So unfair.

Because, sad as it is, Super Mario RPG is not the greatest selling game of all time. It's fair to say that a significant portion of the developed world has played or heard of Minecraft in some capacity.

We're just lucky anyone even remembers Geno. We'll get there, man, don't worry.

 

[cmbsfm]

I will not be listened to on this front but I would like to take a moment to caution everyone on paying attention to or digging up the musings of Vergeben or Hitagi. Both were wrong numerous times during their stint and both were so obviously disgraced that they vanished from the public eye. It's the perfect month for spooky shenanigans, but I think dead leakers should remain in their grave.

Minecraft could have been in "negotiations" for Smash Bros since Notch stole the infiniminer code and started making it, doesn't make these guys right just because Steve Minecrafttale made it into Smash two full years after Vergeben or Hitagi were saying they were likely. Recall that Verge couldn't even nail down what Minecraft content was coming to Smash, fighter, stage, or even a boss or assist trophy. He was making **** up as he went.

Hitagi yes, Vergeben no. To say Verge isn’t credible isn’t a good take given the amount he’s gotten right. Hell, this 5-year negotiation thing means the only Smash thing he’s gotten wrong is saying the Square character will be the first.

 

[StrangeKitten]

People are quick to point out how 'tired' and lifeless Sakurai came off when it came to Minecraft, and took his cheeky commentary towards his higher-ups at face value saying they put a gun to his head and forced him to go along with this whole thing, and it's like, if you kept watching, you'd see all the crazy wacky stuff that he put together himself in his own time playing Minecraft - a game that he has gone on record stating that he enjoys very much.

What you see is a man that is, yes, undoubtedly tired, but not because he was forced to do something he didn't want (because he literally just said beforehand that if he doesn't want to work with the character, he can refuse), but more likely because he not only had to cooperate with his team to rework a gigantic portion of the game to make sure that the character worked, and was balanced accordingly, but incidentally, he's still recording these things from his home, which tells me that he's still doing most of this heavy-lifting out of the house, remotely, and after about 6-7 active months of having to work under this kind of stress and pressure, I'd be shocked if he wasn't exhausted and struggling to act more energetic than usual.

I understand that Steve isn't everybody's first pick, but it's pretty grating to see that so many people can't put together pieces of the puzzle using context clues to understand what's actually going on in a given scene, and how far some will go to justify a character as 'a terrible pick' because 'look, even the director hates it, look at that grimace!"

That's not even really directed towards anyone here, but social media is a dumpster fire, and you sure do see a lot of things on days like these, I'ma tell you what.

I saw no reason to think Sakurai disliked Minecraft or disliked working on the character. I thought it was common knowledge in the Smash spec scene that Sakurai loves Minecraft. He just seemed tired to me, maybe even trying to joke but it just didn't come across because he was tired.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

>MFW we got Smash news today, along with more Smash news incoming in just two days, after we went through a lengthy drought of no Smash news...

 

[SpectreJordan]

Yeah because I'm definitely getting deja vu. Remember when Xenother and Hitagi said in 2018 they believed Steve was coming because they claimed they not only saw screenshots but even video footage? Maybe they were telling the truth based on what Imran Khan said today. On my end, Chief still has a lot in his corner and I'm genuinely sorry if he winds up being a Mii costume but A LOT of people can verify that a lot of funny business has been going on with Chief since last fall. He's another one of those "peak prevalence" characters like Geno and Ryu that so many reputable people have heard him that something's definitely up with him. There's some people in my circle I can ask to see if they would be willing to publicly back me on the stuff on Chief because it's definitely not a Fatman Exclusive ™.

Lol no worries, man. I’d count that as a win for you & your insiders if Chief is a Mii costume. You guys still would have heard he was coming somehow.

But I’m just gonna keep my fingers crossed that he doesn’t show up on Saturday, so I can keep the dream alive. Maybe Chief & Geno can be the E3 2021 showstoppers.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Glad we are getting Smash info on the weekend Is that a first for a Sakurai presents?

 

[Noipoi]

>MFW we got Smash news today, along with more Smash news incoming in just two days, after we went through a lengthy drought of no Smash news...

Feel the rain on your skin~

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Glad we are getting Smash info on the weekend Is that a first for a Sakurai presents?

Yeah, none of the previous Sakurai Presents videos have been on weekends.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I can't even imagine which stage would fit Waluigi. With that being said, I think the stage selection screen is long overdue for improvement.

As someone who plays in handheld mode, this. So much this.
Would be really nice if we could have a favorites tab, that way we all could just put our 20 or so faves and find stages easily from there

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I feel like Steve took 5 years to add cause he was considered for Sm4sh but then was cut due to negotiations falling through, but then was reconsidered for Ultimate

 

[TheBeastHimself]

>MFW we got Smash news today, along with more Smash news incoming in just two days, after we went through a lengthy drought of no Smash news...

>MFW we got the Smash news on 10/1, along with more Smash news two days late followed by a lengthy drought of no Smash news...

 

[AceAttorney9000]

>MFW we got the Smash news on 10/1, along with more Smash news two days late followed by a lengthy drought of no Smash news...

To be honest, while we just got Fighter 7, I think Fighter 8 isn't too far behind, for two reasons...

1. Everything we've been getting seems to be the planned contents for E3 2020, just spread out over an extended period. E3 tends to have multiple Smash reveals, and if Steve was one of two planned E3 reveals, then Fighter 8 might be coming soon if we're still getting E3 contents.
2. With Steve's reveal and Sakurai's short clip afterwards, we now have a very plausible reason for why Fighter 7 took this long to come out: the developers had to essentially re-work 90% of the game just to accommodate a single character. Unless Fighter 8 ends up being a similarly complicated process, I doubt they're gonna take as long as Steve did.

 

[QQS]

I will always believe in Geno playable 100% until a costume prove me wrong.

It’s just a matter of more time and he will appear. It will be a sweet victory.

 

[Izanagi97]

I feel like Steve took 5 years to add cause he was considered for Sm4sh but then was cut due to negotiations falling through, but then was reconsidered for Ultimate

Wasn't the controversy surrounding the original creator, Notch, also happening somewhere in that timeframe (between back then and now). I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft and Mojang were busy dealing with that crap

To be honest, while we just got Fighter 7, I think Fighter 8 isn't too far behind, for two reasons...

1. Everything we've been getting seems to be the planned contents for E3 2020, just spread out over an extended period. E3 tends to have multiple Smash reveals, and if Steve was one of two planned E3 reveals, then Fighter 8 might be coming soon if we're still getting E3 contents.
2. With Steve's reveal and Sakurai's short clip afterwards, we now have a very plausible reason for why Fighter 7 took this long to come out: the developers had to essentially re-work 90% of the game just to accommodate a single character. Unless Fighter 8 ends up being a similarly complicated process, I doubt they're gonna take as long as Steve did.

My money is on Fighter 8 being shown in November

 

[StrangeKitten]

I'll be surprised if we see fighter 8 any time soon. But it wouldn't be impossible. Sometimes we do get stuff sooner than usual, just look at how we got Terry's reveal, and release not long after, right after Banjo. And there's The Game Awards, too. I'm doubtful on a reveal after last year's burn, but it's still possible. I'm not expecting to see anything till next year, but who knows.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I have a feeling that Fighter 8 will be shown either at the Game Awards or in a Direct next year

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

To be honest, while we just got Fighter 7, I think Fighter 8 isn't too far behind, for two reasons...

1. Everything we've been getting seems to be the planned contents for E3 2020, just spread out over an extended period. E3 tends to have multiple Smash reveals, and if Steve was one of two planned E3 reveals, then Fighter 8 might be coming soon if we're still getting E3 contents.
2. With Steve's reveal and Sakurai's short clip afterwards, we now have a very plausible reason for why Fighter 7 took this long to come out: the developers had to essentially re-work 90% of the game just to accommodate a single character. Unless Fighter 8 ends up being a similarly complicated process, I doubt they're gonna take as long as Steve did.

At least we have amiibo theory to give us more accurate guidance

 

[Audioplasma]

I see us not getting geno as fighter 77 the equivalent to avengers infinity war where we think it’s over but come back confident and end up getting geno after all like endgame

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And again, this is supposed to be a character that tops Steve...

And what can possibly top the literal best-selling game of all time, Fatman? What could be better than a reveal that caused Twitter to have its first major break in 11 goddamn years?

Just because Steve was underwhelming to some of us doesn't mean it's not a massive deal to see him in Smash.

 

[Elmorethemagician]

I will always believe in Geno playable 100% until a costume prove me wrong.

It’s just a matter of more time and he will appear. It will be a sweet victory.

Same here! I'm not giving up unless I see the costume!

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

And what can possibly top the literal best-selling game of all time, Fatman? What could be better than a reveal that caused Twitter to have its first major break in 11 goddamn years?

Just because Steve was underwhelming to some of us doesn't mean it's not a massive deal to see him in Smash.

I think you misunderstand fatman. He agrees steve is a big deal

 

[Fatmanonice]

And what can possibly top the literal best-selling game of all time, Fatman? What could be better than a reveal that caused Twitter to have its first major break in 11 goddamn years?

Just because Steve was underwhelming to some of us doesn't mean it's not a massive deal to see him in Smash.

You missed the point I was making. Steve was 7. E3 reveals have always been at least pairs. Everything you just recounted was for E3 2020's FIRST reveal so the question is who do they have planned for the second? By all logic, Steve SHOULD have been the headliner for E3 2020 but wasn't which is why my prediction for the longest time was either Crash or Chief. This is a big reason why this thread had Geno as 77 because we convinced ourselves that he would be the opening act at E3 at best but obviously Steve being picked as this year's Villager/Mii/Hero is a big game changer.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

You missed the point I was making. Steve was 7. E3 reveals have always been at least pairs. Everything you just recounted was for E3 2020's FIRST reveal so the question is who do they have planned for the second? By all logic, Steve SHOULD have been the headliner for E3 2020 but wasn't which is why my prediction for the longest time was either Crash or Chief. This is a big reason why this thread had Geno as 77 because we convinced ourselves that he would be the opening act at E3 at best but obviously Steve being picked as this year's Villager/Mii/Hero is a big game changer.

Any current theories around this? Perhaps Nintendo truly does think geno is up there with steve in terms of reveals, or the order switched between the two?

 

[Honest Slug]

Wasn't the controversy surrounding the original creator, Notch, also happening somewhere in that timeframe (between back then and now). I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft and Mojang were busy dealing with that crap



My money is on Fighter 8 being shown in November

Dragon Quest's composer also has fairly odious views and Hero still made it into the game. I strongly doubt Notch's peculiar opinions affected Steve's inclusion in any meaningful way.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You missed the point I was making. Steve was 7. E3 reveals have always been at least pairs. Everything you just recounted was for E3 2020's FIRST reveal so the question is who do they have planned for the second? By all logic, Steve SHOULD have been the headliner for E3 2020 but wasn't which is why my prediction for the longest time was either Crash or Chief. This is a big reason why this thread had Geno as 77 because we convinced ourselves that he would be the opening act at E3 at best but obviously Steve being picked as this year's Villager/Mii/Hero is a big game changer.

Or maybe they'd need just one reveal for 2020?

With how much damage Steve alone did to the Internet, I think that's a fair assumption, especially when we didn't even know the ARMS rep until late June (which was likely delayed by COVID).

So the reveals could've been Min Min and Steve.

 

[extremeturkey]

Soooo, will Steve be the new Byleth? As in, will we be hearing nonstop complaints until FP8 is revealed?

No. Considering that people actually like Steve.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, things just got even more nutty:

Former Mojang business developer says discussions about Minecraft being added to Smash Bros. started "at least 5" years ago

Not quite an overnight deal

gonintendo.com

5 YEARS AGO! Negotiations literally started the year of the Smash Ballot! Do you have any idea the kind of implications this has for future third party characters in this pass?!?

 

[SeasideKingDumb]

I saw the theory that E3 was supposed to have Steve and someone else, and to be honest, I think that actually lines up REALLY well with the Gamestop video claiming Geno got in Smash (when advertising Paper Mario) and may have kept the script / voiceover but just updated the visual instead of editing it out.

I'm not sure how much this holds up, though, but I think if Geno is 78 that actually would line up pretty well and makes sense given COVID setbacks. If 78 is going to be revealed before November (where the Mario event is being held) then I think there's a very strong chance Geno is that one.

Don't wanna give too much hope though lol so it's definitely a longshot but I think it'll be interesting to theorize about what the original plans were for the Fighter Pass when this one's all said and done and we know all the characters.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

So, things just got even more nutty:

Former Mojang business developer says discussions about Minecraft being added to Smash Bros. started "at least 5" years ago

Not quite an overnight deal

gonintendo.com

5 YEARS AGO! Negotiations literally started the year of the Smash Ballot! Do you have any idea the kind of implications this has for future third party characters in this pass?!?

Not really, but please tell me in great detail!

 

[Deleted member]

So, things just got even more nutty:

Former Mojang business developer says discussions about Minecraft being added to Smash Bros. started "at least 5" years ago

Not quite an overnight deal

gonintendo.com

5 YEARS AGO! Negotiations literally started the year of the Smash Ballot! Do you have any idea the kind of implications this has for future third party characters in this pass?!?

Minecraft was planned to be in Smash not 3, but 5 years huh? I can now imagine Geno being planned for literal years with DQ taking priority. I remember Sabi’s NoA higher up ambassador source talking about Geno, Stealth heard Geno, and of course the seven square memos.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Or maybe they'd need just one reveal for 2020?

With how much damage Steve alone did to the Internet, I think that's a fair assumption, especially when we didn't even know the ARMS rep until late June (which was likely delayed by COVID).

So the reveals could've been Min Min and Steve.

We covered this earlier today but Min Min was never intended as an E3 reveal:

-Work on Season 2 began last summer.

-Min-Min's Amiibo wave was leaked in February and was for mid April. When Min Min was delayed, this was pushed back to June.

-It was specifically said in March that Min Min was already delayed because of balancing issues, not COVID.

-Min Min's presentation wasn't recorded until May, almost two full months after E3 had been publicly cancelled.

 

[mynameisBlade]

So, things just got even more nutty:

Former Mojang business developer says discussions about Minecraft being added to Smash Bros. started "at least 5" years ago

Not quite an overnight deal

gonintendo.com

5 YEARS AGO! Negotiations literally started the year of the Smash Ballot! Do you have any idea the kind of implications this has for future third party characters in this pass?!?

No I don't have enough mental energy to even establish my physical footing after that reveal today. Please share your major implications with us once you have compiled them. Please and thank you. Steve completely blew my mind. I never thought he'd be an ACTUAL fighter. A Mii costume maybe, but this was just very very...very very very.. very...VERY... 1,000,000 more very later...............................unexpected.

I'm not mad, but certainly not ecstatic. Just neutral. Very neutral. The most positive thing I can say is that I am truly happy for everyone who got what they wanted today.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's late so I'm not going to do an absolutely huge write up right now but the long and short of it is that the Smash Ballot is still shockingly relevant 5 years later. Also mynameisBlade , relevant to your interests, the Crash document supposedly highlighted a 5 year plan for the Crash franchise between 2017-2022 with a "goal" of Crash for Smash in 2020/2021. Not only does this vagueness make more sense now with this added context but also very implies that talks probably began much earlier than we originally believed if they happened at all.

 

[mynameisBlade]

It's late so I'm not going to do an absolutely huge write up right now but the long and short of it is that the Fighter's Pass is still shockingly relevant 5 years later. Also mynameisBlade , relevant to your interests, the Crash document supposedly highlighted a 5 year plan for the Crash franchise between 2017-2022 with a "goal" of Crash for Smash in 2020/2021. Not only does this vagueness make more sense now with this added context but also very implies that talks probably began much earlier than we originally believed if they happened at all.

Well that is something! I very much still look forward to your large full list. We can only hope at this point for anything as great and as deserved as Geno and Crash making it in.

 

[Inawordyes]

Minecraft was planned to be in Smash not 3, but 5 years huh? I can now imagine Geno being planned for literal years with DQ taking priority. I remember Sabi’s NoA higher up ambassador source talking about Geno, Stealth heard Geno, and of course the seven square memos.

Guess who got a spotlight moment in Smash 4 without even being a full fighter, and got special recognition that none of the above did, as well as a Sakurai article stating that he intended to include them in Brawl?

Geno

I can't remember if I ever posted the comment where I brought this up, but consider the fact, in Brawl's case, that Sonic was a last-minute get and wasn't originally planned. They had to delay the game to develop and include him. But Sakurai is on record saying he wanted Geno in Brawl because of his popularity 15 years ago and tried to negotiate Geno for Brawl and things didn't work out at the time. So just let that sink in - Brawl wasn't originally meant to be Snake and Sonic, if Sakurai had his way it would've been Snake and Geno.

And when Smash 4 comes around, Geno gets a splash page for his Mii Costume, something that had never been done before and wasn't done after up until Sans introduced the concept of 'Premium Costumes' in Ultimate. Geno got special notice and even a short segment of Cloud's presentation devoted to him and his costume despite not being a character.

And then, I think the first Geno rumor came about pre-release? I can't remember for sure because it's been a long while since 2018 haha, but I'm pretty sure the NoA watercooler rumor at the least came like right after the game was released, and the evidence and rumors relating to Geno have only grown over time, even despite the fact that Geno didn't appear in FP1. Others have mentioned it already, but it seems like last year they went "Major character in gaming history who is very popular and appeals to the general public" in Hero to start E3 and then "Super popular character with a huge fanbase amongst Smash players that isn't necessarily as well-known generally" in Banjo at the end. Square-Enix, then Microsoft. This year, it's looking very much so like it was meant to be "Major character in gaming history who is very popular and appeals to the general public" in Steve to start E3 and "Super popular character with a huge fanbase amongst Smash players that isn't necessarily as well-known generally" in Geno at the end. Roles reversed, it's Microsoft, then Square-Enix.

We're gonna have to wait awhile, but honestly, the fact that Geno is hypothetically the second reveal makes the Mario tournament being in Nov/Dec make so much more sense, because if it was pushed so far ahead to account for Geno's delay (when he likely would've been the September release if Min Min didn't delay both herself and Steve and push the release timetable forward by two months seemingly), then Geno would have to be announced and release within maybe 2 weeks at most of the tournament's date, but probably 1 week or maybe even within the same week it would start. The reason they're being coy with pinning it down right now is probably because it would give away too much about the timeframe of when Geno would be released, so wait until later this month or early Nov, reveal Geno, then announce the date of the tournament officially to be after Geno is released.

 

[extremeturkey]

Now the not as good news. Steve still doesn't get me interested enough to buy the pass and at this point I [...]

I don't see how Steve (or whoever it would've been) would get you to buy the pass in the first place. No matter whether you like Steve or not, you still wouldn't have any clue if you're gonna like the last four.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

It's late so I'm not going to do an absolutely huge write up right now but the long and short of it is that the Smash Ballot is still shockingly relevant 5 years later. Also mynameisBlade , relevant to your interests, the Crash document supposedly highlighted a 5 year plan for the Crash franchise between 2017-2022 with a "goal" of Crash for Smash in 2020/2021. Not only does this vagueness make more sense now with this added context but also very implies that talks probably began much earlier than we originally believed if they happened at all.

Wait, what's this Crash document?

 

[axel_]

There's a lot for me to talk about with why I think Geno is next, and also not that far away, but I'll save that for another day when I have more time. For now I'll leave my current predictions here.
I'll say for now that I think the long-standing rumored characters are finally getting their chance to shine.

Note: Bandana Dee is mainly here as a stand-in for any other Spirit upgrade or first party.

 

[Jurae818]

So, things just got even more nutty:

Former Mojang business developer says discussions about Minecraft being added to Smash Bros. started "at least 5" years ago

Not quite an overnight deal

gonintendo.com

5 YEARS AGO! Negotiations literally started the year of the Smash Ballot! Do you have any idea the kind of implications this has for future third party characters in this pass?!?

This tells me that Iwata really wanted to strengthen the 3rd party support for Nintendo like with Hyrule Warriors and especially Skylanders, as people mentioned Crash in some earlier posts, Crash kinda wetting people's appetites for the reveal of the N-Sane Trilogy. The ballot was also a way to engage with the fanbase to see what they wanted so that Nintendo could get input from both their business partners and from their core audience. Remember that things take a while to come into fruition. What we see now may have been in the works for years and on paper for even longer. Smash Four was literally pushing recent titles with its newcomers so this was the next big step, use Smash to promote upcoming characters for games from 3rd parties and their own games while also using the ballot to bring in a few bones to sate the core crowd (Personally it should be the other way around, but nonetheless).

Minecraft is more or less the pack that'll generate the bulk of sales if not the individual pack itself and if things go in the right direction, characters from the core circle of the fanbase should come later on. They knew what they were doing with yesterday's reveal.