Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MamaLuigi123456]

I was not using metrics. I just thought Smashboards was not that small.

Think of it this way. There are close to 298,000 users on SmashBoards. Let's round that up to 300,000, and lets also assume each user owns a copy of Ultimate. Compare that to Ultimate's sales of 19.99 million units as of June 30. The population of SmashBoards just barely scrapes past 1.5% of that.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

It just would have been nice plus all the signs (still) point to him being in the first half of the pass. We all kind of doubted that Geno would be the headliner of an E3 but, uh, that's obviously changed given today's events. Chief obviously wasn't it, Imran Khan has placed hard doubt on Sora and implied yesterday that if Crash is happening it's not soon so that certainly whittles down big fan favorites that could have been the 2020 big Smash reveal.

Or maybe Steve was the big reveal? I mean, the fact is there's still another E3 that would happen in FP2's lifetime. Sure historically, there's always been multiple characters at an E3, but we've never really had a set timeline like this before, where we know exactly how many are coming and by when. Wouldn't it make sense to more evenly distribute the characters? If we follow 2019's schedule, we had 4 characters released. If it was hypothetically the same for 2020 and they did dump 4/6 of FP2 in one year, that would only leave 2 characters for 2021 - which would either destroy the two-per-E3 regardless, or leave a massive gap without any news if they saved them both for E3, which doesn't seem logistic in a COVID-free scenario.

 

[Theguy123]

The almighty vergeben is back.

the minecraft announcement was so strong that it’s brought vergeben back from the dead and into the leaking business again.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Huh, look at that?

Microsoft responds to the possibility of Master Chief in Smash Ultimate - Dexerto

Microsoft has responded to fans wanting to know if the Xbox mascot Master Chief will ever be joining Minecraft Steve in Smash Ultimate.

www.dexerto.com

I don't think Microsoft will get another character in this game, but if any company were to ever triple dip it would be Microsoft. I mean, Microsoft in of itself being in Smash is HUGE due it being of one of the biggest corporations on the planet.

 

[Datboigeno]

Or maybe Steve was the big reveal? I mean, the fact is there's still another E3 that would happen in FP2's lifetime. Sure historically, there's always been multiple characters at an E3, but we've never really had a set timeline like this before, where we know exactly how many are coming and by when. Wouldn't it make sense to more evenly distribute the characters? If we follow 2019's schedule, we had 4 characters released. If it was hypothetically the same for 2020 and they did dump 4/6 of FP2 in one year, that would only leave 2 characters for 2021 - which would either destroy the two-per-E3 regardless, or leave a massive gap without any news if they saved them both for E3, which doesn't seem logistic in a COVID-free scenario.

Dude what are you talking about? If two characters were revealed at E3 that'd still only be 3 out of 6 characters having been revealed. And with the schedule implied by the S2 announcement it makes more sense for two characters to get announced at E3 rather than 4 to be announced in one year even in a non covid situation.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Where did imran imply that Crash, if he's happening, wouldn't be anytime soon?

Here:

Twitter

In this thread he basically hard slams the idea of promotional characters. If it wasn't for COVID-19, Crash 4 would have no doubt have been an E3 announcement which means Crash being announced for Smash then and there would have basically been an ad. I've recently been of the mind that if Crash was coming it'd be after the Switch version of Crash 4 was announced and this kind of supports that sentiment.

 

[Geno Boost]

Geno and Steve are in the same game doesn’t that sounds crazy?!

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I'll avoid smashboards and social media entirely besides discord because i know nothing good will come out of this. I'll just say I'm happy for the Steve fans who are cool people like TheCJBrine and that well... Cacodemon could still come with Steve. So you know what that means...



CACOMALLOW IS STILL GODDAMN REAL

Actually, isn't Steve Owned by Microsoft? Which also owns Bathesda? and Doom? Does this mean we could soon have the reveal of the Cacodemon costume and........

....oh no.......

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Dude what are you talking about? If two characters were revealed at E3 that'd still only be 3 out of 6 characters having been revealed. And with the schedule implied by the S2 announcement it makes more sense for two characters to get announced at E3 rather than 4 to be announced in one year even in a non covid situation.

I'm going off of the amount we had revealed in 2019. So we would've had Min Min, 2 at E3, and then presumably one later that year (like Terry.)

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

It's a weird turn of events because even this fanbase has been like "oh, Geno would never be the headliner of an E3" and yet, here we are, Master Chief dead in Miami and Steve was the Hero/Daisy of E3 2020. Good Lord... 77 would have been absolutely perfect but holy hell if Geno was supposed to be the BIG reveal of E3 2020...

Im gonna say it again. If Roy was ****ing E3 Material then so can Geno.

 

[xpnc]

Alright, well, I've officially accepted Minecraft Steve being added to Smash so I'll collect my thoughts here

• Costumes are going to be something I think we'll all pay very close attention to
• It was always going to be a Microsoft character coming around the same time as Geno, it just so happens that it was Steve rather than Chief (RIP)
• Minecraft in Smash was basically inevitable and it was hubris to assume we were in the clear as far as Steve was concerned
• The look of pure dread in Sakurai's eyes as he basically apologized for it being Minecraft was cathartic, it probably doesn't mean anything but the fact that he specified not every character can be a favourite of his means that at least one more will be (please)
• No idea why they didn't just announce this on the 3rd if they were going to show the Sakurai Presents then anyway
• Not looking forward to watching him explain in great detail about a character who requires a completely different set of rules to operate in Smash for the 4th time this DLC cycle but that's just the way the cookie crumbles
• This was the most low-effort trailer they've done since Piranha Plant so I have to wonder if everyone's heart was really in this

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So let's say we see the Lloyd costume return Saturday oe see the Cacodemon costume. How will that change y'alls' predictions? Personally, I think even if Lloyd's costume returns we are still potentially getting a Namco rep. I think we could see the Cacodemon hat, but I highly doubt we will see the Mallow hat. If we do see the Mallow hat or Smithy costume in a pack that isn't Geno's, than I think that will be a HUGE blow in his chances since it would be best and make the most sense to save those costumes for him.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm going off of the amount we had revealed in 2019. So we would've had Min Min, 2 at E3, and then presumably one later that year (like Terry.)

Min Min wasn't going to be an E3 reveal and based on the timing was likely delayed after E3 was formally cancelled. We know this because Min Min's Amiibo wave was leaked in February and slated for mid April:

Twitter

This Amiibo wave was then pushed back two months to mid June:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nintendo-amiibo-figure-piranha-plant/6255170.p?skuId=6255170

For reference, E3 was cancelled roughly two weeks before the March Mini Direct:

It’s official: E3 2020 has been canceled [Updated]

ESA announces it won’t hold massive game marketing event for the first time since 1995.

arstechnica.com

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Min Min wasn't going to be an E3 reveal and based on the timing was likely delayed after E3 was formally cancelled. We know this because Min Min's Amiibo wave was leaked in February and slated for mid April:

Twitter

This Amiibo wave was then pushed back two months to mid June:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nintendo-amiibo-figure-piranha-plant/6255170.p?skuId=6255170

For reference, E3 was cancelled roughly two weeks before the March Mini Direct:

It’s official: E3 2020 has been canceled [Updated]

ESA announces it won’t hold massive game marketing event for the first time since 1995.

arstechnica.com

I didn't say she was, that's why I said 4. So Min Min in the beginning of the year, 2 reveals at E3, and then another later in the year like Terry.

 

[Dan]

Like, seriously, regardless of corporate Nintendo's involvement, if we end up waiting until Dec 2021 to get the originial Geno costume, I could only conclude that Sakurai was a sadistic asshole.

Well I meant the deluxe... how would you feel about that?

 

[Datboigeno]

I didn't say she was, that's why I said 4. So Min Min in the beginning of the year, 2 reveals at E3, and then another later in the year like Terry.

thats just not realistic given the release schedule that was given as the final character being released December 2021. It was always going to have sizable gaps in release.But big gaps in release doesn’t mean big gaps in announcements.

 

[Malo Mart]

Actually, isn't Steve Owned by Microsoft? Which also owns Bathesda? and Doom? Does this mean we could soon have the reveal of the Cacodemon costume and........

....oh no.......

Yep! Cacomallow is real.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Alright, well, I've officially accepted Minecraft Steve being added to Smash so I'll collect my thoughts here

• The look of pure dread in Sakurai's eyes as he basically apologized for it being Minecraft was cathartic, it probably doesn't mean anything but the fact that he specified not every character can be a favourite of his means that at least one more will be (please)

Actually I think what he said as a whole could imply it's one he liked since he loves Minecraft, and he just explained they don't just choose his favorites since Nintendo is part of making decisions too (he seems to know about fans' thoughts and stuff too); plus, he could've denied and acted like it'd be too hard since he already thought it would be extremely hard but decided to do it anyway.

Nothing he did really seemed to imply he doesn't like the inclusion.

As for the trailer being "low-effort," it still seems to have a lot of effort. Not as much as others when it comes to the CGI, but still, and is still better than Piranha Plant, no way did they slack because of not liking it; it's their job to make it good anyway, they seem to have a lower budget too. They also threw in cool references to different actions and stuff in the game and made Steve act cool and silly, and the characters can blink their eyes.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

So let's say we see the Lloyd costume return Saturday oe see the Cacodemon costume. How will that change y'alls' predictions? Personally, I think even if Lloyd's costume returns we are still potentially getting a Namco rep. I think we could see the Cacodemon hat, but I highly doubt we will see the Mallow hat. If we do see the Mallow hat or Smithy costume in a pack that isn't Geno's, than I think that will be a HUGE blow in his chances since it would be best and make the most sense to save those costumes for him.

If Lloyd gets costumed on Saturday, the only reps left for Namco I can see are Klonoa, Digimon rep, Kosmos or someone from Soul Calibur or Tekken.
I’ll admit that I believe the Cacodemon leak is mostly dead now, but if a similar looking hat shows up on Saturday, then yeah that’s a BIG bump for Geno and is a soft confirm.
As for the Mallow Hat, it won’t show up without Geno; it’s either Geno costume and Mallow hat or none of them.

 

[Theguy123]

I didn't say she was, that's why I said 4. So Min Min in the beginning of the year, 2 reveals at E3, and then another later in the year like Terry.

but having 4 in this year and 2 next year would be massively uneven. Also how would they balance out 2 fighters between 9 months so that it doesn’t keep the waiting dragging on. I think it’s unlikely that there would’ve been 4 announcements this year.

it’s more likely that there would’ve been 3. 1 towards the start, 1 at e3 and then 1 towards the end of the year which would leave 3 to be announced and spaced out next year.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

thats just not realistic given the release schedule that was given as the final character being released December 2021. It was always going to have sizable gaps in release.But big gaps in release doesn’t mean big gaps in announcements.

Right, but if you're going for 3 a year (which makes sense), why reveal 2 at E3 only to spend literally at least half a year until you reveal someone else? Why not reveal one in the beginning of the year, one in the middle (E3), and one near the end?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yep! Cacomallow is real.

Geno is real!

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

but having 4 in this year and 2 next year would be massively uneven. Also how would they balance out 2 fighters between 9 months so that it doesn’t keep the waiting dragging on. I think it’s unlikely that there would’ve been 4 announcements this year.

it’s more likely that there would’ve been 3. 1 towards the start, 1 at e3 and then 1 towards the end of the year which would leave 3 to be announced and spaced out next year.

That's exactly what my initial argument was.

Or maybe Steve was the big reveal? I mean, the fact is there's still another E3 that would happen in FP2's lifetime. Sure historically, there's always been multiple characters at an E3, but we've never really had a set timeline like this before, where we know exactly how many are coming and by when. Wouldn't it make sense to more evenly distribute the characters? If we follow 2019's schedule, we had 4 characters released. If it was hypothetically the same for 2020 and they did dump 4/6 of FP2 in one year, that would only leave 2 characters for 2021 - which would either destroy the two-per-E3 regardless, or leave a massive gap without any news if they saved them both for E3, which doesn't seem logistic in a COVID-free scenario.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I didn't say she was, that's why I said 4. So Min Min in the beginning of the year, 2 reveals at E3, and then another later in the year like Terry.

I don't really see what's wrong with that. They said they would be done with Season 2 by 2022, not necessarily that they would put out stuff until the last minute. Season 2 might even get more stuff outside of packs. Hard to say but the fact that Min Min would have been released only about 2 1/2 months after Byleth strongly makes me believe that they weren't going to significantly slow things down. Why? Because that was almost exactly the gap between Plant and Joker as well as Mewtwo and E3 2015. If it wasn't for COVID-19 and Min-Min's delay, we have decent evidence that 7 was likely a June or July release and 8 September.

 

[Spatulo]

I already forgot who I stole this from but I’m feeling it.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

I don't really see what's wrong with that. They said they would be done with Season 2 by 2022, not necessarily that they would put out stuff until the last minute. Season 2 might even get more stuff outside of packs. Hard to say but the fact that Min Min would have been released only about 2 1/2 months after Byleth strongly makes me believe that they weren't going to significantly slow things down. Why? Because that was almost exactly the gap between Plant and Joker as well as Mewtwo and E3 2015. If it wasn't for COVID-19 and Min-Min's delay, we have decent evidence that 7 was likely a June or July release and 8 September.

Right, but then that would leave only 2 reveals for 2021, which would mean either waiting half a year or more to have them both at E3 again, or releasing one in the beginning of 2021, and then only having 1 at E3 regardless. Wouldn't it make more sense to have it be consistent?

 

[CannonStreak]

Think of it this way. There are close to 298,000 users on SmashBoards. Let's round that up to 300,000, and lets also assume each user owns a copy of Ultimate. Compare that to Ultimate's sales of 19.99 million units as of June 30. The population of SmashBoards just barely scrapes past 1.5% of that.

Well, that is at least still bigger than 1%, and I was just saying I did not think it was just 1% alone, even if it was just 1 point something.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Someone first told me about Steve being in Smash, 3 years ago...

Whether they had insider info (I believe they did), if so, that's pretty crazy to think how long it takes Smash DLC to turn around.

— Liam E 🦝TANUKI: Pon's Summer Wishlist Now! (@LiamBME) October 1, 2020

I'll be honest guys. The one character this helps is Ryu Hayabusa. Since he's also been heard a whole lot. I think he's probably the most likely character now.

I'm sorry about Geno. I know there's still a good chance for there is a Square Enix character, but this was the best time for him...so I'm not all that particularly hopeful.

Im only gonna become pessimistic for Geno one we hit Fighter 9 onwards. The most eye catching characters tend to be the first and middle ones, so if we go to Figher 9 and it ends up beign K.Rool on a bike then yeah, i'll panic then, but not now.

 

[RichieGonzo]

So let's say we see the Lloyd costume return Saturday oe see the Cacodemon costume. How will that change y'alls' predictions? Personally, I think even if Lloyd's costume returns we are still potentially getting a Namco rep. I think we could see the Cacodemon hat, but I highly doubt we will see the Mallow hat. If we do see the Mallow hat or Smithy costume in a pack that isn't Geno's, than I think that will be a HUGE blow in his chances since it would be best and make the most sense to save those costumes for him.

Telling y'all come Saturday if we see a Cacodemon costumr that matches cacomallow but no SMRPG content, Geno is 100% in. Probably next at that.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Well, that is at least still bigger than 1%, and I was just saying I did not think it was just 1% alone, even if it was just 1 point something.

I mean, it only helps your argument on a technical sense. If the percentage was 5% the point that SmashBoards is only a fraction of the entire fanbase still stands.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

It would be kinda odd though to have Cacodemon but not Doomguy. Maybe if M theory is correct they could add in Doomguy with the Cacodemon Mii coustume

 

[Malo Mart]

Well...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[CannonStreak]

I mean, it only helps your argument on a technical sense. If the percentage was 5% the point that SmashBoards is only a fraction of the entire fanbase still stands.

I did not say that Smashboards was that big, actually.

Come to think of it, though, given how many people do not come here as much or anymore, this place could be less than 1% of the fanbase.

 

[YsDisciple]

Having internalized the left-hook of a reveal of Steve as CP 7, thinking back on Smash Bros. Ultimate's DLC cycle up to this point, I was drawn back to E3 2019. Before continuing, some things to recall from previous E3 announcements within Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's cycle (pre, and post launch).

• In the 2018 Nintendo Direct, we got a surprise Smash Direct at the end, in which halfway through it we got the reveal of Daisy as Peach's echo fighter, and it ended off with the reveal of Ridley finally making it into the game (a fan-favorite character).
• In the 2019 Nintendo Direct, we started off to a Smash reveal, with it being Hero from Dragon Quest as CP 2. Near the end of the Direct, we got a second surprise reveal with Banjo & Kazooie joining in as CP 3.

Remembering the E3 2019 Smash reveals, and going over what was shown in today's reveal of CP 7 (Steve), a thought came to mind. Steve's reveal might allude to what could have been E3 2020's dual reveal; it being a mirror from 2019's. "A mirror from 2019'? Say what?" On this point, I'd like to point out some details in regards to the characters that were revealed within last year's (2019) E3 Direct.

• CP 2, Hero from the legendary JRPG franchise of Dragon Quest (DQ), was revealed with four (4) different alternate skins one could choose from (Heroes from DQ III, IV, VIII, and XI). This character was the Square Enix rep in the Fighters Pass and was the opening reveal in the E3 2019 Direct.
• CP 3, Banjo & Kazooie from the self-titled, memorable 3d platformer-collectathon, was the near-closing reveal in the E3 2019 Direct. Although an IP original from RARE, since around the time of Nuts and Bolts, it is a Microsoft IP, making the duo the Microsoft rep. This character's inclusion was considered by many to have been THE fan pic of the pass. Also, Banjo & Kazooie, as stated by Sakurai in an old interview had expressed that around the time of Super Smash Bros. (N64), he had wanted to include the duo to the game. However due to the uncertainty surrounding RARE's fate at the time, that was not possible at the time.

The following points are speculative theory-crafting based on facts and educated guesses (i.e., NOT a confirmation). Combining today's reveal with the E3 2019 Smash reveals, led me to believe that this year we might've had a similar reveal pattern not simply in the matter of west, and japan favorite picks, but in specific, existing partner Company picks (these being Microsoft and Square Enix); only that the order of the characters would be reversed (i.e.: Microsoft's rep would be the opening reveal, while Square's would be the near-closing reveal). Heck, a bit tinfoily on this one but, even the Challenger Pack numbering could allude to this possibility as well; Microsoft's CPs being uneven numbers (3 and 7), with Square Enix's numbers potentially being even numbers (2 and 8). However, the upcoming presentation of Steve on Saturday will be key to determine whether what would have been this year's E3 2020 dual Smash reveal had been a perfect mirror of 2019, or an "assisted" or "improved" mirror. What I mean by perfect mirror or improved mirror is the following.

Perfect 2019 Mirror

• Opening Smash reveal is a Microsoft rep
• Character has different alternate skins (four)
• Character comes from a very popular franchise (in this case of a younger demographic mostly)
• Character's challenger pack will also launch with a themed Mii Costume Wave (if it is to be exactly like Hero's then they would be four; all from Minecraft)

Improved 2019 Mirror

• Same three first points of the Perfect Mirror
• Character's challenger pack will also launch with a themed Mii Costume Wave (rather than just Minecraft Mii Costumes, these would be of Microsoft IPs).

Now, all this is nice and what not but, the point I'd like to get to with all of this is that, following the idea of these two E3 2020 reveals having had been a mirror from 2019's, then the closing reveal would have been one akin to what Banjo's was in nature.

• A highly requested fan favorite character
• Character is from an IP that hails from one classic game from the pre-2000
• Sakurai had previously expressed having wanted to include him in Smash (in past iterations of Smash)

As for the fourth characteristic, since this time Microsoft was the opener, then the closer would have to had been a character from a Square Enix-owned IP. The Square Enix character that meets all of these characteristics is (imo) none other than Geno himself.

• Geno's been a highly requested fan favorite character, appearing in unofficial polls among the top 10s
• Character is from an IP that hails from one classic game from the pre-2000. Although originated from a Super Mario spin-off game, it was the ONLY RPG of its ilk from the Super Mario franchise that ever released. The Paper Mario, and Mario & Luigi spin-offs that came later both began as spiritual successors to SMRPG, but still were unique on their own.
• Sakurai had previously expressed having wanted to include him in Smash (since Brawl specifically).

Bringing up the Mii Costume waves; if this upcoming Saturday we do in fact see a Cacodemon Mii Hat that looks IDENTICAL to the one shown in the CacoMallow image leak, that would confirm that said leak was REAL, and would thus confirm the legitimacy of the Mallow hat. Geno would be "soft-confirmed" is this pans out. Otherwise we would have to wait until the CP 8 reveal sometime later to see if in fact the dual reveal of E3 2020 was going to be a reversed mirror of 2019.

For the time being, let us wait and see what Saturday brings. CP 8 should be revealed sometime around... January perhaps (3 month gap from Steve's reveal) if we go by recent time gaps (or forbid the thought of having to wait until March 2021).

 

[MexoKatonSB]

Right, but then that would leave only 2 reveals for 2021, which would mean either waiting half a year or more to have them both at E3 again, or releasing one in the beginning of 2021, and then only having 1 at E3 regardless. Wouldn't it make more sense to have it be consistent?

i mean. wasn't there a thing where there were like 4 extra slots for characters or something after fighters pass 2 is complete? so doesn't that mean there are POSSIBLY 4 more characters on the way?

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Characters that were heavily heard by a insider at one point or another (or just widely rumored) but dropped completely out of rumors, and have nothing pertaining to Smash yet.

• Katalina from Granblue (Hitagi mentioned Steve along with her back in 2018, I think Verge backed up a little, but not too much)

.....Oh no...., she's back....

 

[Trevenant]

Saturday will be interesting that's for sure. Learning more about Steve and all his BS he comes with is cool but I'm mainly talking about the mii costumes. Capcom and Namco still have them missing. If those companies aren't gonna get anyone, the mii costumes showing up would be a pretty accurate indicator. With that being said I wouldn't be too surprised if one of the Namco ones show up and the old Rathy armour. Chief getting in at all (if it anything it's a mii at this point) would be quite surreal but not do much at least for the moment in the speculation scene at large. I'm not counting on the Square ones showing up since they seem to only come paired with their own stuff and I feel Geno is still pretty likely all things considered

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

i mean. wasn't there a thing where there were like 4 extra slots for characters or something after fighters pass 2 is complete? so doesn't that mean there are POSSIBLY 4 more characters on the way?

Yup. Which yeah, this is all speculation based on what might happen. But I don’t think we should bank on extras as if they’re inevitable

 

[Kritter]

I never took the December 2021 deadline to mean that it would take until December 2021 to release everything. Things have placeholder dates all the time for releases before hard dates are confirmed. December 31 is a common placeholder date. I took the announcement as saying that all of the fighters would be released by the end of 2021 (which they have to say in order to sell it), but hypothetically they could have released the last fighter in June 2021. The irony is that, because of the coronavirus, it may actually take until December 2021 to get all the characters now. They must be so thankful they set such a late date.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I don't see Geno being a deluxe Mii costume, like that would be a massive f you to Geno fans, and plus wouldn't it be odd if they're making it sound like it's a big deal when it already exists?