Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Powerman293]

So, things just got even more nutty:

Former Mojang business developer says discussions about Minecraft being added to Smash Bros. started "at least 5" years ago

Not quite an overnight deal

gonintendo.com

5 YEARS AGO! Negotiations literally started the year of the Smash Ballot! Do you have any idea the kind of implications this has for future third party characters in this pass?!?

That pretty much any rumor post ballot is back on the table?

 

[MattX20]

That pretty much any rumor post ballot is back on the table?

Yep, Ryu Hayabusa for certain is back on along with Geno and Lloyd

 

[CannonStreak]

Yep, Ryu Hayabusa for certain is back on along with Geno and Lloyd

Yeah, does Vergeben have anything to do with leaking him?

 

[Voe]

If Cacomallow (demon AND Mallow) is shown tomorrow, then Geno's costume will 100% be shown with it. There is no way they would reveal Mallow's costume without Geno as that completely gives away that Geno is playable. They would have to just show the Cacodemon costume, and once its compared to the original leak, will finally settle the issue if it was real or not.

Ah, so Cacodemon and Mallow hat (in that order) gets revealed, leaving Geno to be saved last as a potential deluxe mii costume? There's also the possibility of a Mallow hat being shown before Cacodemon, the screen slowly goes black, then this pops up as the next deluxe mii costume:

Spoiler

Assuming the Cacomallow leak is real I believe it's fair to assume one of these scenarios could happen, leaving us to wonder if one of the next DLC fighters is Geno or Doomguy. Or you know, we just get the costumes or hats only and no Doomguy and Geno for us.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That pretty much any rumor post ballot is back on the table?

Not all, just the ones with decent backing. For example, Geno still has the Seven Squares leak from 2018 going for him and the now bombshell prospect that playable Geno and Hero could have been negotiated in the same timeframe.

 

[MexoKatonSB]

just an interesting thought but

what if tomorrow the sakurai presents was in a different style. like how they are in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrNrwgM0o5g

would be pretty cool

 

[Powerman293]

Not all, just the ones with decent backing. For example, Geno still has the Seven Squares leak from 2018 going for him and the now bombshell prospect that playable Geno and Hero could have been negotiated in the same timeframe.

"Decent backing"

Well that's a pretty loose definition there.

 

[StrangeKitten]

The walls seem to start to deteriorate within seconds, at least as shown in the reveal trailer. Now, we didn't see what happens or how they break yet, but my guess is they're short lasting. They might be good for edge guarding shenanigans, but I don't really think he'll end up ban worthy. We'll know more for sure tomorrow, but I'm not expecting the blocks to be game breaking, ban worthy things yet. (I also play somewhat competetively, though I'd be lying if I said I thought I was that good.)

Yeah, once I watched Mew2king's breakdown and realized the blocks seem to only last around 5 seconds, maybe less, they looked a lot less broken. He's starting to remind me of Hero. Can be strong, but requires RNG setup to truly be great, which will hold him back competitively.

 

[Firox]

If Cacomallow (demon AND Mallow) is shown tomorrow, then Geno's costume will 100% be shown with it. There is no way they would reveal Mallow's costume without Geno as that completely gives away that Geno is playable. They would have to just show the Cacodemon costume, and once its compared to the original leak, will finally settle the issue if it was real or not.

Exactly. I'll tell you what though, if we see a Cacodemon costume identical to the CM leak with no Mallow costume.....

WE WIN

Cacodemon is way too specific of a mii costume to accompany Steve and not throw up some serious red flags.

 

[okamifire]

I'm really hoping for the Cacodemon costume, but it has to look exactly like the one from the video. No way they'd release a Mallow costume tomorrow, it just doesn't make sense, but I could absolutely see a Cacodemon.

 

[Firox]

So just to be sure, the only way a hypothetical Cacodemon costume WOULDN'T be with Steve is if we either

A) have another MS rep, which I doubt
B) are going to get an outright Bethesda rep, which could very well be possible
or
C) there is no costume because the leak is fake

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the only three logical assumptions, right?

Best case, we see Caco with no Mallow, virtually confirming that Geno is in or, worst case, we don't see Caco and Geno's chances remain pretty much the same if not ever so slightly lower.

 

[xpnc]

So just to be sure, the only way a hypothetical Cacodemon costume WOULDN'T be with Steve is if we either

A) have another MS rep, which I doubt
B) are going to get an outright Bethesda rep, which could very well be possible
or
C) there is no costume because the leak is fake

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the only three logical assumptions, right?

These are the only three possible scenarios yes. It's either real and with Steve, real and with someone else, or fake

 

[AdamBel731]

Fatmanonice , credit where credit is due, you predicted that Fighter #7's reveal trailer was going to be longer due to the possibility of the character having interesting alts or something, and I was pretty skeptical of that actually happening. So I'll happily hold that L.

In terms of who I think is looking good right now, I obviously think Geno still does. Lloyd is probably good too, and Ryu Hayabusa continues to baffle me. He makes so much sense due to Koei Techmo's relationship with Nintendo, and yet there seemed to be so much doubt on him. Personally speaking, I have no connection to him but think he would make a great character. I think Koei Techmp have certainly earned a character in Smash after all they've collaborated and helped put Nintendo over the years. I know some people in this thread very much disagree on Ryu Hayabusa being an NES "all-star" (I personally think he is one, just a lower tier one), but I think he'd be cool.

I think Min Min is our Byleth, Steve is our Joker, Geno will be our Banjo & Kazooie, maybe Lloyd will be our Terry, and then... I don't know who'd go in Hero's position.

 

[pinshadow]

Okay, call me crazy (many of you do anyways) but I just realized something by re-reading my last post. The third party franchises that got Mii costumes in Smash 4 were:

SEGA: Sonic, Virtua Fighter
Capcom: Megaman, Monster Hunter
Square: Final Fantasy, Mario RPG
Namco: Tekken, Tales, Tower of Duraga

Sonic, Virtua Fighter, Megaman, and Monster Hunter all got promotions in Ultimate. Knuckles, Akira, Zero, and Rathalos all became assist trophies. What do these assist trophies have in common? Their associated Mii costumes came in pairs.

Tails and Knuckles
X, Exe, Zero, and Protoman
Rathalos and Monster Hunter
Akira and Jacky

The leftover third party Mii costumes didn't. Chocobo is a hat, not a Mii costume, so Geno was technically the only Square Enix costume in Smash 4. Heihachi, Gil, and Lloyd all came in seperate waves in Smash 4. Neither Square or Namco has yet to get any kind of promotion. Obviously there's not going to be new assist trophies so for Namco that basically leaves Lloyd or Gil and for Square literally just Geno.

Something to note too is that, like Heihachi, Gil is actually part of Pac-Man's taunt:

Namco Roulette

Namco Roulette is Pac-Man's up taunt.

www.ssbwiki.com

This was once discarded as a minor detail but, then again, look what ultimately ended up happening with Heihachi.

I REMEMBER THINKING UP THE SAME THING BACK IN LIKE DECEMBER, **** HOW DID I FORGET.

Lloyd is LITERALLY the only third-party character to get a Mii Costume in 4 not to get any kind of acknowledgment in Ultimate. You already layed it out in the post but I can't help but think about how weird it is that even Heihachi and Gil got put into a taunt yet Lloyd just doesn't exist in Ultimate. Even Geno got spirited.

 

[Firox]

I think Min Min is our Byleth, Steve is our Joker, Geno will be our Banjo & Kazooie, maybe Lloyd will be our Terry, and then... I don't know who'd go in Hero's position.

I like the way you think.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Gonna straight up and say it, Ryu Hayabusa is the only 3rd party I don't want in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly kinda hate that the Seven Squares leak is being treated as decent evidence for Geno. Even if Sora is dead (please God), we still have Crono and Sephiroth to contend with.

Things honestly aren't looking that good anymore.

 

[xpnc]

I think Min Min is our Byleth, Steve is our Joker, Geno will be our Banjo & Kazooie, maybe Lloyd will be our Terry, and then... I don't know who'd go in Hero's position.

In terms of appeal to Japan?

I think Capcom is gonna be the odd one out here—the rest of the pass will look something like Geno, Ryu Hayabusa, Crash, and our nebulous Namco character who may or may not be Lloyd.

 

[pinshadow]

Might as well post my opinions on the whole "5+ years" thing, who knows how it played out. Firstly, who approached who here? Minecraft on Wii U released in late 2015, so I'd say this about lines up with the time-frame of Minecraft content being talked about for Smash. Was it Nintendo's idea, or Mojang/Microsoft's? I mean, the fact it took this long to play out makes me think Nintendo had to just have not been interested in it at first right? We know Sakurai has talked before about being wary of working with western developers. maybe after how well Banjo worked out they decided they were cool with it. I mean, that also lines up with Minecraft's resurgence in popularity last year, what better time to do it? I'm just saying that while Steve has likely floated around for the last 5 years, that doesn't mean they were always going to do it. I mean, we know Seven Squares, and how multiple characters came up there, that doesn't mean they all got in right then obviously, it just means they were on the table.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly kinda hate that the Seven Squares leak is being treated as decent evidence for Geno. Even if Sora is dead (please God), we still have Crono and Sephiroth to contend with.

Things honestly aren't looking that good anymore.

I seriously doubt we’ll be getting more FF content. The content is literally the same from Smash 4. We don’t even have any trophies or spirits. Square seems to neglect Chrono except some re-releases. If there’s secretly a new Chrono Trigger game in the works then maybe. Nintendo acknowledged SMRPG but not Chrono so I don’t see Nintendo picking Crono over Geno. If anybody, Lara Croft is a serious contender or some Braver Default shill pick.

 

[Firox]

I honestly kinda hate that the Seven Squares leak is being treated as decent evidence for Geno. Even if Sora is dead (please God), we still have Crono and Sephiroth to contend with.

Things honestly aren't looking that good anymore.

First of all, I don't think you have to worry too much about Sephiroth. Between being another swordie and SE's other poster boy, I doubt Nintendo is willing to shell out whatever ridiculous amount SE is undoubtedly asking for him. As for Crono, he seriously lacks the fanbase that Geno has along with the fact that we already have a magical swordsman that looks suspiciously like Goku. I don't think Sakurai would opt for another, if for nothing else due to the lack of visual/mechanical uniqueness.

 

[Powerman293]

There's only room for 4 characters left in the game's code after Season 2 and, given the 16 dummyslots were found before Plant even released, this could have been the plan all along. It's hard to say because, like I've been screeching about most of this year, there's good evidence out there that they're working on stuff outside of Season 2 but we don't have clear parameters of what.

4 characters sounds like a perfect amount to add for a Switch 2 complete edition port of Ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

I seriously doubt we’ll be getting more FF content. The content is literally the same from Smash 4. We don’t even have any trophies or spirits. Square seems to neglect Chrono except some re-releases. If there’s secretly a new Chrono Trigger game in the works then maybe. Nintendo acknowledged SMRPG but not Chrono so I don’t see Nintendo picking Crono over Geno. If anybody, Lara Croft will be a serious contender or some Braver Default shill pick.

Not to mention to my last post, while those 2 are possible, I will say this, for Lara Croft, I’m a bit iffy because Nintendo hasn’t really supported her for over a decade. All DLC characters, Nintendo supported in some form in recent years. Joker had Persona Q2 a 3DS exclusive. Hero, a definitive edition came out last summer and you can play every mainline DQ game on Nintendo systems + DQ rivals and builders. Banjo, he didn’t really get support but a Minecraft skin... however, he had a lot of fan demand. Terry, KoF and Fatal Fury ported to the Switch. And of course there’s Minecraft. I’m not sure if Nintendo would be on her radar. For BD, a shill is possible, but if Octopath gets spirited, I don’t see Agnès or BD 2 protagonist happening. That’s all I gotta say.

 

[Firox]

While I agree that Lara Croft is certainly iconic, my biggest doubt for her is the moveset. Let's be honest here, she's a regular human with a gun. At best, I'm picturing a combination of Zero Suit Samus and Joker but without the Persona mechanic. I just don't see her being very interesting at all. She wouldn't really bring anything new or interesting to the table. Could Sakurai find a way to flesh out a moveset? Of course. Sakurai could give a brick a moveset if he wanted, but I serious doubt he would bother. That's just my opinion on the matter.

 

[MattX20]

Okay, let's speculate on this: let's assume for the sake of argument that Geno is without question one of the remaining 4 and we have 3 more companies that aren't Nintendo getting a spot in the pass. Out of the following, which do you think have the best overall shot: Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Capcom, Level 5, or Activision?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Gonna straight up and say it, Ryu Hayabusa is the only 3rd party I don't want in Smash.

I don't really want Hayabusa either, but I do think he is deserving of getting in. He is one of the last NES all stars that isn't in the roster yet along with Arthur from Ghost 'N Goblins, Bill Rizer/Lamce Bean from Contra, and Billy Lee/Jimmy Lee from Double Dragon.

Okay, let's speculate on this: let's assume for the sake of argument that Geno is without question one of the remaining 4 and we have 3 more companies that aren't Nintendo getting a spot in the pass. Out of the following, which do you think have the best overall shot: Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Capcom, Level 5, or Activision?

Namco because they only have one rep in Smash right now. Namco is the only 3rd party in Smash with only one rep yet they have been co developing Smash 4 and Ultimate alongside Sora Ltd. I think it's inevitable a Namco rep will be in Fighter's Pass 2.

 

[Deleted member]

While I agree that Lara Croft is certainly iconic, my biggest doubt for her is the moveset. Let's be honest here, she's a regular human with a gun. At best, I'm picturing a combination of Zero Suit Samus and Joker but without the Persona mechanic. I just don't see her being very interesting at all. She wouldn't really bring anything new or interesting to the table. Could Sakurai find a way to flesh out a moveset? Of course. Sakurai could give a brick a moveset if he wanted, but I serious doubt he would bother. That's just my opinion on the matter.

I believe Lara Croft got some magical treasure or artifacts she can use as attacks and again Lara Croft might not make it in for the fact Nintendo hasn’t really supported her recently unlike Joker and Hero so I’m not sure if she is on their radar.

Okay, let's speculate on this: let's assume for the sake of argument that Geno is without question one of the remaining 4 and we have 3 more companies that aren't Nintendo getting a spot in the pass. Out of the following, which do you think have the best overall shot: Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Capcom, Level 5, or Activision?

My guess would be Capcom, Koei Tecmo, and Activision.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

New Papa Video.

So glad he is championing the whole "It is foolish to say something is debunk, because it has taken TO LONG to pan out"

Yep at this point I'm really confident on ryu

vergeben got his reputation back now that we know minecraft steve has been on the table for 5 or 3 years and he is talking koei tecmo

And shifty was talking ryu hayabusa was a package and shifty got marx as a boss right and his ryu thing probably has the same problem miencrsft Steve did (it took a very long time to get him ready)

 

[Firox]

Okay, let's speculate on this: let's assume for the sake of argument that Geno is without question one of the remaining 4 and we have 3 more companies that aren't Nintendo getting a spot in the pass. Out of the following, which do you think have the best overall shot: Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Capcom, Level 5, or Activision?

My bets are on:

-Koei Tecmo: A huge partner with nintendo that doesn't already have a single rep

and

-Namco: Another huge partner with only 1 rep.

Capcom seems kinda tapped out with Megaman and the Shotos.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

My bets are on:

-Koei Tecmo: A huge partner with nintendo that doesn't already have a single rep

and

-Namco: Another huge partner with only 1 rep.

Capcom seems kinda tapped out with Megaman and the Shotos.

I'm about the same but I will throw in crash

Just like xpnc pointed out crash is officially loved in the whole world now Japan just loves him now he was the only none Japanese game to make the popular list in japan

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm about the same but I will throw in crash

Just like xpnc pointed out crash is officially loved in the whole world now Japan just loves him now he was the only none Japanese game to make the popular list in japan

It's funny you say that as Minecraft is really big in Japan too and that's a western IP and Steve was just recently announced. I believe Crash is coming too.

 

[Nazyrus]

I REMEMBER THINKING UP THE SAME THING BACK IN LIKE DECEMBER, **** HOW DID I FORGET.

Lloyd is LITERALLY the only third-party character to get a Mii Costume in 4 not to get any kind of acknowledgment in Ultimate. You already layed it out in the post but I can't help but think about how weird it is that even Heihachi and Gil got put into a taunt yet Lloyd just doesn't exist in Ultimate. Even Geno got spirited.

Welcome to the sad reality I live in lol, Tales not even getting spirit events or anything, they are doing the series so dirty (thankfully, so that means lloyd is playable lol). It's also the only remaining JRPG from the top 3 JRPGs in Japan (FF, DQ and Tales of, as stated on Tales of wikipedia). I'm praying super hard to not see him somehow come back tomorrow as mii and crush my biggest hope in this pass lol

 

[MattX20]

Welcome to the sad reality I live in lol, Tales not even getting spirit events or anything, they are doing the series so dirty (thankfully, so that means lloyd is playable lol). It's also the only remaining JRPG from the top 3 JRPGs in Japan (FF, DQ and Tales of, as stated on Tales of wikipedia). I'm praying super hard to not see him somehow come back tomorrow as mii and crush my biggest hope in this pass lol

Chances are it's Gil or the Monster Hunter costumes. I don't think you have to worry

 

[Fatmanonice]

I honestly kinda hate that the Seven Squares leak is being treated as decent evidence for Geno. Even if Sora is dead (please God), we still have Crono and Sephiroth to contend with.

Things honestly aren't looking that good anymore.

Crono: a 5th Akira Toriyama designed medieval fantasy RPG swordsman owned by Armor Project.

Sephiroth: a second Final Fantasy VII character when Smash has never double dipped for third party franchises outside of echoes. Plus Sephiroth would mean a second FF VII stage plus more FF VII music when they couldn't even get the rights to jpegs for the base game.

Geno not being 77 was a minor inconvenience that ironically brought forward a lot of stuff to his favor; let's not turn it into something bad.

 

[Super10ZX]

If I have to make a bet on any of the missing Mii Costumes coming back tomorrow, I’d pick Monster Hunter, solely because of both them and Steve being avatar characters. It’s not much, but I’m just spitballing.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

On the topic of Lloyd's Mii costume MIA and Lloyd being a DLC character, I have believe in Lloyd being one of the DLC characters since the character massacre of the November 1st, 2018 Smash Direct. It's so bizarre Lloyd is the only Smash 4 Mii costume to get no representation whatsoever in Ultimate's base game. It's as if they had the sole attention of making Lloyd playable all the way back since base game speculation. If he is not going to be playable and his Mii costume is going to return, why not reference him in the game like all the other Smash 4 Mii costumes? Because they might have planned to add Lloyd since 2018.

 

[pinshadow]

I'm waiting tomorrow before jumping to conclusions, I've been shaky on a Namco rep for months but I'll admit I'm starting to lean back in a bit. Right now we're in weird limbo territory in regards to speculation, I'd argue just as much depends on tomorrow, where we'll learn the (6?) mii costumes Steve is arriving with and hopefully the release date of the next amiibo wave, as on yesterday in terms of where we go from here.

 

[Datboigeno]

My prediction for Pass 2 at this point: Min-Min, Steve, Geno, Lloyd, Dante, Crash

In terms of appeal to Japan?
View attachment 288015

I think Capcom is gonna be the odd one out here—the rest of the pass will look something like Geno, Ryu Hayabusa, Crash, and our nebulous Namco character who may or may not be Lloyd.

I think the best corollary to Hero would be Steve. Minecraft in the US is closer to being what DQ is in Japan than what Crash is as much as I love Crash. I would say Crash would be the Joker but with more mainstream appeal.

 

[FE_SLaDe]

So I compiled a list of basically everything we know leading to tomorrow as of right now. Please let me know if there's anything I missed so I can make sure to include it here.

• 7/11 ads and Amiibo Waves 100% coincide with character reveals and releases, this has been pretty well known for awhile, but I think at this point there’s no denying this as fact.

• Characters can take up to 5 whole years to be fully realized as Minecraft Steve has proven since there is information that negotiations took place as far back as 2015.

• This means that what Vergeben claims to have heard about Ryu Hayabusa from Koei Tecmo is absolutely still on the table as we know some of these characters were negotiated for as early as before the base game released.

• This would also mean that Cacomallow is also on the table as nothing has definitively disproven the leak, we do not know or can claim to know whether or not these Mii Costumes are worked on alongside the DLC characters. It’s entirely possible they can be worked on separately and well in advance of their releases.

• Square Enix has supported the 2nd fighters pass with multiple spirit events so it is very likely we see another character from them.

• It’s possible that the 7 characters Vergeben heard for the Square representation in smash that we all assumed were leakbait for Hero could actually have been discussed for smash in some capacity. We already know Erdrick, the Luminary, and Slime are in the game, and Imran Khan has stated back in February that negotiations for Sora seems to have fallen through due to Disney. There’s a possibility that content of some kind might still be coming involving Geno, Crono, and Sephiroth.

• Mii Costume Guy has stated Mallow and Smithy are upcoming Mii Costumes which could line up both Square Enix having another rep and with the Cacomallow leak from November last year. We could possibly see Cacodemon as early as tomorrow considering the recent Microsoft acquisitions as well as Joanna Dark, another Mii Costume leaked by Mii Costume guy.

• There is a likelihood that if another Amiibo Wave releases this holiday season (November or December) then we could see another character announcement by this holiday season as well. We know that Geoff Keighley has expressed interest in seeing another reveal at TGA 2020, and it would fit considered one of their sites is in Tokyo this year.

I know we usually have a lot riding on Mii Costume reveals but holy Star Road does it feel doubly so this time around.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

On the topic of Mii Costumes, I almost forgot about this from last year

Assuming this is real, yeah there’s NO heckin way they would bring Geno’s costume back and then go the extra mile for Mallow and Smithy. Add Crono, Sephiroth and/or whoever the heck you want and this is literally Geno’s Mii Lineup.
On a side note, I’m not worried about tomorrow and I don’t think we will see Geno. I also think Lloyd is safe, it feels like there’s a lot in his favor. I’m expecting either Gil or the Monster Hunter costumes to return.
Edit: ‘d with the Mii Costume Guy