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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Oaterinos

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Catching up on this thread has been INSANE! Please keep it up so I don't have to think more about Dorian coming closer to me :p

I guess to throw in my two cents, I've never played a KoF game, and the only SNK character I really like is Fio, but I'll be too busy with Banjo to worry about it
 

wynn728

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Still doesn´t change the fact that the man needs a vacation. Even with these normal work hours, he still worked on the game while being at the hospital on top of still having an issue with his shoulder and the tenosynovitis issue... Heck he even worked while having food poison.

Someone should just stop the mad man before he kills himself through work

https://kotaku.com/smash-bros-creator-masahiro-sakurai-works-too-damn-har-1833057020
Everyone got to work, yeah Sakurai needs a break but it's not like he can take a break for a couple of month. That's just unreasonable. It's more like take a few weeks off and come back to work like a regular job.
 

MissingGlitch

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It does seem like the Ballot was used for Ultimate base game. But I swear the DLC is more of a personal wishlist of Sakurai's. Persona, Dragon Quest, and SNK Banjo is really the odd one out considering how much he loves Minecraft.
 
D

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Why's that?
It's because now we're getting a KoF rep for #4 and #5 might be another underwhelming character, like Smash always ends with or somebody like Doom Slayer will come in and take it. Yeah, I know about those extra WoL slots for characters but I don't know if he'll be one of those characters. I'm starting to think he may not show up at all.
 

Datboigeno

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It does seem like the Ballot was used for Ultimate base game. But I swear the DLC is more of a personal wishlist of Sakurai's. Persona, Dragon Quest, and SNK Banjo is really the odd one out considering how much he loves Minecraft.
Well if a second character pass happens then that might be a thing in Geno's favor.
 

vivala

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Idk what this is about.

What i do know, is that if sabi is now just toying with geno fans that’s an ******* move.

I mean it kinda is if she’s doing it to any fanbase....like, people have put so much faith in her, that to just toy with them now is kinda cruel.
I don't think he's intentionally toying with a particular fandom. Like, I don't think he's trying to give anyone fake hope, just riling people up for the next reveal
 

RetrogamerMax

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It does seem like the Ballot was used for Ultimate base game. But I swear the DLC is more of a personal wishlist of Sakurai's. Persona, Dragon Quest, and SNK Banjo is really the odd one out considering how much he loves Minecraft.
Banjo & Kazooie isn't the odd one as we all know they're here because of the Smash Ballot.
 
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Fatmanonice

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Sakurai got a lot of stuff that he wanted,
That's kind of the takeaway. This Fighters Pass is basically Sakurai's and the intention of it seems to primarily be about celebrating video game history. It seems very deliberate, possibly as a way to convince Sakurai to make DLC in the first place. I don't think the purpose of this Fighter Pass was to fulfill a ton of fan requests,I think it was more of a negotiation tool: let Sakurai work specifically on stuff that he wants to work on and is super passionate about. It's almost like they pulled him aside and said "look dude, we know this is a pain in the ass but we'll let you work on whatever you want to if you agree to make DLC for this game. Tell us, Mr. Sakurai, what franchises have you always wanted to work with?" That's my inkling anyways and what they were going for in this pass.
 

MissingGlitch

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Banjo & Kazooie isn't the odd one as we all know they're here because of the Smash Ballot.
I meant more in terms of him being surrounded by some of Sakurai's favorite franchises. From what I understand. He adores Minecraft and hardly talked about Banjo outside of a comment about not being in Melee due to the Microsoft buy out.
 

EarlTamm

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That's kind of the takeaway. This Fighters Pass is basically Sakurai's and the intention of it seems to primarily be about celebrating video game history. It seems very deliberate, possibly as a way to convince Sakurai to make DLC in the first place. I don't think the purpose of this Fighter Pass was to fulfill a ton of fan requests,I think it was more of a negotiation tool: let Sakurai work specifically on stuff that he wants to work on and is super passionate about. It's almost like they pulled him aside and said "look dude, we know this is a pain in the *** but we'll let you work on whatever you want to if you agree to make DLC for this game. Tell us, Mr. Sakurai, what franchises have you always wanted to work with?" That's my inkling anyways and what they were going for in this pass.
That makes sense. The question now is that would this approach continue for possible DLC beyond the fighter pass? If I were to guess, it would become less of a major factor, but it would still play a part(You don't give someone everything they want for a project and then do the exact opposite next time).
 
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D

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I'm gonna shoot a theory out here and see who might agree, based on the "IMPACT" tweet from the guy who also has an Eva avatar. Iirc, he's been right about some leaks and supplemented Sabi before. Someone replied to him with one of the KoF Maximum Impact games:

Path 1: Milk Botatsu was "right" and Ash Crimson is the character. Fire abilities would be a projectile weapon, but Milk was wrong - Ash only looks like a girl.

Path 2: Fio (Metal Slug) was a fighter in some KoF games, including Maximum Impact. If the whole Metal Slug cast got a skin, the Marco/Frisk rumor would be correct, and sabi makes it seem that we would be wrong to believe the Frisk part of it.
 

wynn728

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That's kind of the takeaway. This Fighters Pass is basically Sakurai's and the intention of it seems to primarily be about celebrating video game history. It seems very deliberate, possibly as a way to convince Sakurai to make DLC in the first place. I don't think the purpose of this Fighter Pass was to fulfill a ton of fan requests,I think it was more of a negotiation tool: let Sakurai work specifically on stuff that he wants to work on and is super passionate about. It's almost like they pulled him aside and said "look dude, we know this is a pain in the *** but we'll let you work on whatever you want to if you agree to make DLC for this game. Tell us, Mr. Sakurai, what franchises have you always wanted to work with?" That's my inkling anyways and what they were going for in this pass.
If we get another Fighter Pass I hope that he'll take fan request more into consideration and that he takes a step back and realizes how Piranha Plant and the way things were handled during November could've been seen cruel. Smash Bros is better when they listen to the fans, such as how we can turn off stage hazards and a final smash meter. So fingers cross that if there's another Fighters Pass Sakurai & his team take fan request into consideration to get Geno, Isaac and Shadow.
 

Datboigeno

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EarlTamm

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Interesting tactic. Making a sequel to maybe the most disliked smash trailer in recent memory lmao
The trailer itself is good, it's just the context behind it that made it disliked. And it makes sense for Terry to be in that trailer, as he is a rival to Ken as far as crossover games are concerned.
 

YsDisciple

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In regards to the Fighters Pass, since Sakurai announced it prior to the game's release, even though the contents of said pass remained unknown, I went on and bought it ASAP. Why? Because I trust in Sakurai. Sure, it may sound naive, but I trust the man who gave birth to this amazing franchise which since the Melee days became something much bigger than itself.

As for the discussion in regards to the remaining slots found within the game early after release, and now the potential that another Fighters Pass may seem likely, imagine if this Fighters Pass, as some have said was a test, and the REAL showstoppers come on the 2nd Fighters Pass? :nifty: Oh boy, that Nintendo Direct CAN'T.COME.SOONER. :2gud:
 

Fatmanonice

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It does seem like the Ballot was used for Ultimate base game. But I swear the DLC is more of a personal wishlist of Sakurai's. Persona, Dragon Quest, and SNK Banjo is really the odd one out considering how much he loves Minecraft.
I also think this also was deliberate. If the Fighter Pass was nothing but "Sakurai picks", it would have gone super poorly. Banjo's pretty much the only character that's uniformly been accepted and even celebrated, ,especially among casual players. If it weren't for Banjo, I think people's interest in future DLC would have tanked. Banjo's kind of a buoy, in a way.
 

wynn728

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I don't get this at all. I find it weird that three of the five trailers are all sequel to existing trailers. That feels far fetch... but if Terry is in then of course it make sense to do the Incineroar trailer which feels lame, but hopeful that means Terry throws Incineroar into that teleprompter so that's something to look forward to.

I also think this also was deliberate. If the Fighter Pass was nothing but "Sakurai picks", it would have gone super poorly. Banjo's pretty much the only character that's uniformly been accepted and even celebrated, ,especially among casual players. If it weren't for Banjo, I think people's interest in future DLC would have tanked. Banjo's kind of a buoy, in a way.
Man I feel sad for Geno even more. I always had a feeling, but getting to know that majority of the Fighters Pass is Sakurai exclusive and Geno on the list feels pretty telling on his true view. Unless there's something we don't know about.
 

SpiritOfRuin

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An interesting turn in speculation indeed. I am still unsure of what to believe because I inherently doubt all leaks but still like to consider them.

At the very least I've certainly come to terms with an SNK rep if that is to happen. I don't have any history with their games but again Nakoruru looks amazing and Metal Slug seems to have a pretty colorful cast. If it's Terry then I also get that to play on his rivalry with Ken and contribute to the gamings biggest crossover factor and OMG look at x character fighting y character for the first time in Smash. Its kind of cool. The more I think about it the more I want the SNK thing to be true. If it is a female rep I just hope they aren't inappropriately dressed or anything because not only does gaming not represent female characters often but when they do they tend to make those characters' biggest attributes their sex appeal unfortunately.

I am excited for the possibility of future DLC and for things to "implode" if that really is going to happen. SNK came out of nowhere and I kind of hope #5 has the same out of nowhere but fitting aspect to it. But I hope #5 is actually from a game I've played and care about lol.
 

MissingGlitch

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Now the question is. Where are we getting the idea that Ninja Gaiden is a personal favorite of Sakurai?
 

RetrogamerMax

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I don't get this at all. I find it weird that three of the five trailers are all sequel to existing trailers. That feels far fetch... but if Terry is in then of course it make sense to do the Incineroar trailer which feels lame, but hopeful that means Terry throws Incineroar into that teleprompter so that's something to look forward to.
Alright, so, on today's episode of Overthinking Everything, I'm going to fenagle a new theory for everyone's amusement that I will call "Continuation" theory to possibly predict the last two newcomers.

In Smash Ultimate, the trailers have been very heavily thematic in comparison to Smash 4. The Banjo trailer that we got recently is a prime example. DK, Diddy, and K. Rool were all previous RARE characters and, of course, so was Banjo. Duck Hunt was there because of the very obvious animal duo pairing. When it comes to the character choices in the trailers, it seems to be very deliberate and with purpose. Simon/Richter's had Luigi as Nintendo's go-to character with spooky games. K. Rool obviously had DK and Diddy but King Dedede, the only other major Nintendo character with King inherently in his name, was there too. Ken/Inceniroar's was "fighting" characters with Little Mac from the get-go and then all the characters in the game with boxing gloves (Villager, K. Rool, and Bowser Jr.) as comic relief. Hero had Link, Metaknight, and Marth in prominent roles because, well, swords while Isabelle and Joker's trailers basically focused on the individual characters themselves. This then leads to an interesting observation about the first full character trailer we got, Ridley's...

The main characters in Ridley's trailers are Mario, Megaman, and Samus. The connection between Samus and Ridley is obvious but what about Megaman and Mario? It doesn't help that Mario and Megaman are "killed off" very early in the trailer and the connection between Samus and Ridley is extremely highlighted. This is where the Continuation Theory comes in. We don't exactly know what happens to either of them. Megaman makes the classic death noise but he doesn't explode so he's probably seriously hurt but not necessarily dead. Same could easily be said about Mario. Chances are, they're simply somewhere else in the environment. Why is this significant? It's because we never really get a proper conclusion to Samus and Ridley's fight. Samus is about to dive kick Ridley in the face and then it just sort of fades out. This makes me believe that this story will continue but why? Because it's already happened once before.

The ending to K. Rool's trailer is very vague as well. A big clash of fists, a shock wave, and then we don't really see what happens after that aside from a goofy little skit at the end. At the start of Banjo's trailer, their story continues. I noticed that the endings of Simon/Richter's trailer and Ken/Inceniroar's trailer are kind of vague too. Luigi is about to go into his body when Carmilla appears and we don't see what happens next. Inceniroar gets a line of challengers, utters a sigh of annoyance, but we don't see the end result. There's a decent chance that the story of at least one of these trailers will continue, with my money being on the Ridley trailer being the most likely. Before I go into that, let's imagine the other two.

With Inceniroar's, the end result is that he probably effortlessly beat his three challengers and is looking for someone to give him a real challenge. Who could do this? Keeping with the theme, it would probably be a character from a fighting game. For example, thematically speaking, someone like Heihachi from Tekken would work really well here although that is just one possibility.

With Simon/Richter's, we have Luigi as a ghost/spirit and we're still in the spooky locale of Dracula's castle. This makes me believe that, if this story continues, they would try to have a character that fits this theme. Off the top of my head, two characters fit this theme pretty well: someone from Resident Evil (probably Leon or Jill) or someone from Yokai Watch like "Nate" with Yokai like Pokemon Trailer or someone stand alone like Jibanyan coming to save Luigi.

Now let's go back to Ridley. Like I asked earlier, what's the connection between Mario, Megaman, and Samus? I looked into Smash's past and looked at past presentations:


Bowser Jr's trailer is the only character trailer in Smash 4 where all three characters were together in the cinematic. It's kind of the same premise too, they're fighting a villain but this time they're fighting a Mario villain. Coincidentally, Mario and Megaman get hurt in this trailer too. Beyond that, there's one other time: the Final Smash 4 presentation.


At 15:37, you see "Geno" fighting Zero Suit Samus. At 15:40, you see Samus, "Geno" and Megaman together. At 17:00, you see "Geno" fighting on Ridley's stage, the location that most people agree is most similar to the one in Ridley's trailer. Tin foil hatty but there's a proven historical connection between these characters under this train of thought. Again, the characters for trailers seem to be very deliberate if the characters are given significant screen time. Based on this, these characters were probably put together for a reason but the full reason may not be obvious because we don't have the full story yet. Following this theory, the connection between the characters will be better established when the story continues and a lynch pin that connects these three characters is Geno. Still, this is kind of out there but I wanted to see what people thought of it.
Read Fatmanonice Fatmanonice 's theory on the character trailers, it's really good.
 
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wynn728

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Still traumatized from seeing Inceneroar be the very last base character reveal.
More like his was the weakest design wise out of the three Pokemon who was pushed super hard by the Pokemon Company and was just a wet fart to end Ultimate base game on. It was simply weak and showed how tone deaf Sakurai and his team could be.
 

Fatmanonice

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Something else people should consider is that there's a decent possibility that future DLC won't be as complicated as this one. We could have DLC packs without stages, spirits, or even CGI trailers to keep things simpler.
 

Megadoomer

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More like his was the weakest design wise out of the three Pokemon who was pushed super hard by the Pokemon Company and was just a wet fart to end Ultimate base game on. It was simply weak and showed how tone deaf Sakurai and his team could be.
I can see why they ended with Incineroar. Given how much of the game leaked (Vergeben said that Simon Belmont, Ridley, and Isabelle would be in the game long before they were revealed, though he didn't have much credibility when he made claims about those first two), it was probably better to get the big exciting reveals out of the way early.

If Ryu in Smash 4 was any indication, the reaction to the reveals of K. Rool and Ridley wouldn't have been extreme if multiple credible sources leaked their presence months in advance. (I think Vergeben's biggest claim to fame was either leaking that the Ninja Turtles would be in Injustice 2, or providing some details about the Soul Calibur roster, but he certainly wasn't consistent by that point)
 
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EarlTamm

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Something else people should consider is that there's a decent possibility that future DLC won't be as complicated as this one. We could have DLC packs without stages, spirits, or even CGI trailers to keep things simpler.
I imagine those packs would be sold for less(If there is less/no spirits or stages). What do you think about the possibility of an echo pass? Seems like a plausible thing.
 

MisterMike

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Now the question is. Where are we getting the idea that Ninja Gaiden is a personal favorite of Sakurai?
Same place we usually do: our immensely chapped asses.
Still traumatized from seeing Inceneroar be the very last base character reveal.
Maybe I'm alone on this, but I've entirely gotten over it. Incineroar is pretty fun to play. He may move slow, he can't jump high, but this Mon's one HELL of a guy.
 

Datboigeno

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I can see why they ended with Incineroar. Given how much of the game leaked (Vergeben said that Simon Belmont, Ridley, and Isabelle would be in the game long before they were revealed, though he didn't have much credibility when he made claims about those first two), it was probably better to get the big exciting reveals out of the way early.

If Ryu in Smash 4 was any indication, the reaction to the reveals of K. Rool and Ridley wouldn't have been extreme if multiple credible sources leaked their presence months in advance. (I think Vergeben's biggest claim to fame was either leaking that the Ninja Turtles would be in Injustice 2, or providing some details about the Soul Calibur roster, but he certainly wasn't consistent by that point)
I mean there was credible information that Banjo-Kazooie would be revealed at E3 several weeks before it happened and that was still the biggest reaction there's been thus far.
 

EarlTamm

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I mean there was credible information that Banjo-Kazooie would be revealed at E3 several weeks before it happened and that was still the biggest reaction there's been thus far.
Well, that's because expectations were lowered after Hero was revealed. Many thought they couldn't coexist as newcomers.
 

Megadoomer

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I mean there was credible information that Banjo-Kazooie would be revealed at E3 several weeks before it happened and that was still the biggest reaction there's been thus far.
Wasn't that only a day or two beforehand? And even then, I remember the wording was vague enough that the people claiming that he'd be in could weasel out of it if he wasn't. (such as claiming that it's what they were hoping for as opposed to actually leaking anything)
 

Fatmanonice

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Okay, but why would Ryu Hayabusa be with Simon Belmont continue trailer? Wouldn't Greninja make more sense?
They're both classic NES series and the climax of the original game does take place in a castle/fortress? I dunno. Either way, it doesn't have to make total sense either. Why were Mario and Megaman with Samus in Ridley's trailer?
 
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