Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[vivala]

IF (keyword if) we were to get an announcement for a 2nd fighter pass. Do you think they would do it during this September direct or later on in the year? (Winter direct, Game Awards, ect.)

I think we'd have to wait for a while. We'd get fighter 5 in february and then hear nothing except for maybe mii costumes until E3 where they'd reveal it.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I just think Nintendo wouldn't want months of drought in terms of smash news. This year has been fine because we knew something was coming. After the 5th fighter pass character there will be NOTHING to look forward to. No fan speculation, no media attention. I don't think they would hold off till E3 of 2020 to announce a fighter pass 2.

 

[Deleted member]

The Ice Climbers are basically based off of Eskimos who are native to Alaska and parts of Canada.

Since Ice Climbers don't apologize everytime they trap you in a nasty desynch I'm leaning towards them being Alaskan.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, no, I'm good.

These big companies aren't hating on any minorities. It's called that characters that fall under these minority groups either don't exist, or are not nearly as popular as those who don't. That isn't on big companies: that is on creators for not making character that people like that are also minorities.

You know what else does that a disservice? All these companies that are trying to appeal to minorities keep slapping that minority label on their product without really caring about it. They use minorities to get money.

Why are there not more minority characters that are popular? Because there aren't very many minority characters to begin with, and those that exist are either hollow and have not character deeper than their minority status, or the minority status was tacked on last minute and truly means nothing. After this is a very small amount of characters that are a minority but are also good characters and have love...but they just haven't hit that big status yet. Oddly enough, I think Undertale is a good example that this CAN happen when the characters are done right, but they HAVE to be done right.

So before I dig into this Dragon and Phoenix blend from a badass local Chinese restaurant, let me give you all some advice.

You know the saying 'see the forest for the trees?' It is said for those who keep looking for details and going deeper into something when the problem is face value, the opposite of 'read between the lines' as it were. Well, people nowadays keep looking at just the trees, and we have a reverse problem. It's all about the face value, all about the very basics of who people are and what is going on, and no one seems to be able to look past the branches and see the real reasons behind things.

If you like a character and want them in Smash because they are female, that's fine.

If you don't want characters or don't like them because they aren't female, that is also fine but this is heading towards a line.

If you want ANY character in that represents something just because they represent that, that's fine but my god is that basic and shallow.

If you DON'T want any character that represents something because you think that it's wrong, that's fine but you are inching towards that line.

If you hate on another character or their fans for any reason, that's over the line.

TL;DR Try to like and support a character for more than just their basic traits that literally anyone has and don't bash other characters or people who like them because they aren't who you want.

This is the one thing I'll say on this. If your company makes millions or billions of dollars in profit off of your video games, you can afford to hire people of minorities or people who are well versed in tackling those subjects so that the characters end up fundamentally better portrayed in the media. The issue is that companies request minorities be included, and then just leave it to the same (statistically) straight, man from a majority who has no idea how to write to those issues. I think we actually agree on this point that forced diversity is an issue, it's just what to do from there that seems to be our impasse. I understand a five man passion project can't afford the realities of writing characters outside of their artistic intention and personal experience. AAA gaming doesn't have that excuse. I've mentioned before, the issue with Smash is that it directly reflects the realities of the game industry, and I don't disagree that we have far too few good characters of minority status in the industry. But I do think there are good options we can support that are beloved for more than just their minority status like Tracer for example (I know you don't like her or Overwatch, but she's a well defined lesbian character with meaningful background that a lot of people really like from a game that's still popular and that people enjoy), and that we should support those characters more seriously too.

And I really don't think it's basic or shallow for people to want to see representation in their characters. Again, I agree with the final line (I mean you can voice distaste about the character outside of its specific support thread within reason without resorting to completely offensive insults), but I don't see how someone who sees, again for example, Tracer as a character that they like and is specifically someone who speaks to them as a gay individual as such. Almost no one advocates for characters just because of their minority status and traits, and I feel like that's more attacking a certain strawman that appears in certain communities rather than the people actually in the discussions here (I know that some people in some corners exist who say that sort of thing, some are reasonable, some are very much not and should be condemned for making the situation worse). I mean is liking a character for their appearance any more or less shallow then liking them because of their traits (which usually encompasses how the character is written too)? I don't think so. I mean, how many people, have supported Geno just because "he looks cool." That basic trait can be an entry point for people, and often encompasses a fair amount more the deeper you go into the character.

I went too hard on Terry out of frustration, and I've apologized, and will say it again. I'm sorry for being too rash and focusing too much on a more minor issue that I have with him that evolved into something greater. I also admit that it was petty to go that far. I still think these sorts of discussions are worth having to a certain extent and have some trouble stopping myself haha.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Since Ice Climbers don't apologize everytime they trap you in a nasty desynch I'm leaning towards them being Alaskan.

Lol! Want's wrong with Alaskans?

 

[Deleted member]

I think if we're gonna get a Second DLC pass it would be revealed alongside the fifth DLC character like how the first DLC pass and Ken/Incineroar were revealed together. Maybe in a Smash Direct but I doubt it especially with them having budget issues.

Either way I sadly don't expect anything beyond this first pass and so probably no Geno.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol! Want's wrong with Alaskans?

nothing, but a Canadian would have several apologizing voice lines.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

nothing, but a Canadian would have several apologizing voice lines.

Lmao! I guess they're Alaskan than.

 

[link2702]

I’m reminded of a few weeks ago when it was mentioned that whoever the last reveal is, is gonna get a lot of **** by angry fans of characters who didn’t make it. Now we geno fans all have to hope our character is the final one, and that means we’re gonna be the target of all the hate soon if he is.

So maybe....just maybe, some here are disappointed with the snk character partly for that.

And of course it’s also the anxiety of knowing there’s now only one more reveal. One. There’s been no hints of a bonus character, no hint of a second fighter pass, nothing. It’s not just us geno fans that are sweating here from this.

So what I’m saying is the panic and disappointment with any snk character here shouldn’t be surprising, and some shouldn’t be so harsh on others for panicking like this. If you like Terry, mai, a metal slug character, whoever, that’s fine, but don’t be so harsh on those who aren’t very excited and being vocally disappointed, because if Geno was the 4th, plenty of other support boards would be going panic mode for whoever was last while also being vocal about how disappointed they are that geno was in.

This really is why if he is planned, I wish Nintendo would have revealed him earlier, or ideally, everyone from the start.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I just think Nintendo wouldn't want months of drought in terms of smash news. This year has been fine because we knew something was coming. After the 5th fighter pass character there will be NOTHING to look forward to. No fan speculation, no media attention. I don't think they would hold off till E3 of 2020 to announce a fighter pass 2.

Agreed. If we're getting a Second Pass or even bonus characters, that precedent will probably be set in February at the latest. I kind of have a hard time seeing them just randomly dropping a character at E3 unless one was released following #5.

 

[wynn728]

Heard it before, still an assumption. Even if it turns out to be correct, that won't make it not have been an assumption. Always doom and gloom with you.

I was preparing for this moment to come so people would be more accepting for this turn of events. But when the time came majority acted shocked that Sakurai would do this and started giving up hope. I warned everyone and now people are now coming to terms that Sakurai can be tone deaf and make so bad decisions. I learn the lesson since the last Smash Bros Direct, so now everyone can be doom and gloom when the last fighter turns out not to be Geno and we're stuck with Piranha Plant instead.

 

[JarBear]

I am desperately hoping some time in the future Nintendo will do more DLC for Smash. That is the last hope.

 

[Musubi]

I was preparing for this moment to come so people would be more accepting for this turn of events. But when the time came majority acted shocked that Sakurai would do this and started giving up hope. I warned everyone and now people are now coming to terms that Sakurai can be tone deaf and make so bad decisions. I learn the lesson since the last Smash Bros Direct, so now everyone can be doom and gloom when the last fighter turns out not to be Geno and we're stuck with Piranha Plant instead.

Yeah everyone loves a good "I told you so". Definitely makes the people who may be feeling bad about Geno not making it feel a lot better. Also we still don't know if Geno is going to be DLC or not yet, so could you at least just wait until later for that?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I’m reminded of a few weeks ago when it was mentioned that whoever the last reveal is, is gonna get a lot of **** by angry fans of characters who didn’t make it. Now we geno fans all have to hope our character is the final one, and that means we’re gonna be the target of all the hate soon if he is.

So maybe....just maybe, some here are disappointed with the snk character partly for that.

And of course it’s also the anxiety of knowing there’s now only one more reveal. One. There’s been no hints of a bonus character, no hint of a second fighter pass, nothing. It’s not just us geno fans that are sweating here from this.

So what I’m saying is the panic and disappointment with any snk character here shouldn’t be surprising, and some shouldn’t be so harsh on others for panicking like this. If you like Terry, mai, a metal slug character, whoever, that’s fine, but don’t be so harsh on those who aren’t very excited and being vocally disappointed, because if Geno was the 4th, plenty of other support boards would be going panic mode for whoever was last while also being vocal about how disappointed they are that geno was in.

This really is why if he is planned, I wish Nintendo would have revealed him earlier, or ideally, everyone from the start.

I wouldn't worry about this too much because virtually everyone is in the same boat. I'm still of the mind that the last character will be a "good" choice that people will decently like. Three of the five have been kind of niche and only one was a super big fan request so I think it sets things up for a big reveal that will mean something to Smash fans. I have my own theories and I'll go into them later because I think SNK (95% chance of being Terry at this point) coming has some big implications about what could happen next.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I was preparing for this moment to come so people would be more accepting for this turn of events. But when the time came majority acted shocked that Sakurai would do this and started giving up hope. I warned everyone and now people are now coming to terms that Sakurai can be tone deaf and make so bad decisions. I learn the lesson since the last Smash Bros Direct, so now everyone can be doom and gloom when the last fighter turns out not to be Geno and we're stuck with Piranha Plant instead.

Look at you, playing the prophet. We all knew that Geno might not happen, we've explained as much countless times, and I don't know how many times it needs reiterating before it sticks. The key is daring to hope in the face of disappointment. I won't be broken by a lack of Geno reveal because my life doesn't revolve around smash, and I won't quit hoping regardless of how many times you go "I warned you all this would happen"

 

[wynn728]

I'm still of a firm belief that if there is ANYONE at fault for Geno's absence from Smash all of these years, it's Square. Sakurai knows people want him, and to an extent, he wants him. He's wanted him in almost every game since Brawl. Do you guys seriously think Geno's absence is him being TONE DEAF? Please, I bet you he fights tooth and nail to try and get him in. I don't doubt Nintendo themselves are aware of the outcry as well.

But he is owned by Square. He missed his cameo in the Superstar Saga remake. That's a sign that Square was either wanting too much for him, or want people to forget about him so they can focus on their "relevant" IPs.

I don't doubt an agreement of some kind can be made with Square to use him, especially since two of their biggest IPs now have representation, but said agreement might be too much to handle within their time and budget.

Well we see with Snake return, the amount of Dragon Quest content that's in and all the other stuff in Smash Bros if Sakurai really wanted a character he would get that character. At this point it honestly seems like Sakurai doesn't want Geno that much.

Also it seems like both Nintendo & Square Enix don't care enough for Geno. Remember Fortune Street that was made by both Nintendo and Square Enix that contained Mario and Dragom Quest characters, Geno wasn't included despite the collaboration work. Sure it ain't that big of a deal that Geno wasn't included in Fortune Street, but seeing how Nintendo when out of their way to pit Geno in the first Mario & Luigi game way before the demand of his return started to happen it makes you think what's going on with their reception of Geno.

 

[Fenriraga]

Your usual negative condescending attitude to literally anything discussed in this thread

You are just always a bundle of joy no matter the subject, aren't you?

Seriously, why are you even here at this point? All you ever do here is be a negative downer.

 

[Fatmanonice]

You are just always a bundle of joy no matter the subject, aren't you?

Seriously, why are you even here at this point? All you ever do here is be a negative downer.

He's explained it. He's actually hoping he's wrong but he feels like he's filling an important "niche" in the thread.

 

[Deleted member]

I won't escalate this further myself. If it does escalate, let it not be because of me.

However, how about I add some clarity for you guys about Sabi?

View attachment 236400

There you go, guys. It's definitely a KoF character, but those DMs of the character not being female are fake.

If we don't get Terry, I hope we get Nakoruru as I just love her design and think she would be cool for Smash.

NICE. I haven't read up on the situation in this thread but I know what's going on. Basically, I played Kimg of Fighters 94 on WiiWare and it was a fun time. Never thought I'd see the series in Smash in some way.

 

[Fenriraga]

He's explained it. He's actually hoping he's wrong but he feels like he's filling an important "niche" in the thread.

I would honestly disagree that anything he's doing is important.

But whatever you say.

 

[MattX20]

A point that should be noted in Terry's favor to anyone who says Kyo is the main dude despite evidence to the contrary, the first game Terry appeared in, Fatal Fury, had this subtitle: KING OF FIGHTERS.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I would honestly disagree that anything he's doing is important.

But whatever you say.

He didn't claim it was important, he merely claimed that the guy "feels" that it's important, complete with quotation marks. necessary to note.

 

[Loog]

Spoiler

I was preparing for this moment to come so people would be more accepting for this turn of events. But when the time came majority acted shocked that Sakurai would do this and started giving up hope. I warned everyone and now people are now coming to terms that Sakurai can be tone deaf and make so bad decisions. I learn the lesson since the last Smash Bros Direct, so now everyone can be doom and gloom when the last fighter turns out not to be Geno and we're stuck with Piranha Plant instead.

You know smash ultimate in general has been pretty good all things considered you can have your criticisms but you can't say the roster in general has been disappointing. sure if geno is not in it will be disappointing but I wouldn't say it is doom and gloom.

 

[JarBear]

Nothings wrong with Wynn. We cannot be naive and only “accept” evidence or reality that points to Geno’s favor. So far, the pass has been series that have no representation in smash thus far, and it has been the case.

Honestly, at this point we can only hope for more DLC, Nintendo has not really dived into DLC very strongly despite Nintendo’s president has stated is desire for more. Smash is the ideal game to do it and Sakurai has said he will do more fighters if it’s nintendo’s wishes.

There is hope.

 

[wynn728]

You are just always a bundle of joy no matter the subject, aren't you?

Seriously, why are you even here at this point? All you ever do here is be a negative downer.

Because I honestly do like Geno and potential leaks happen here. Other support boards are basically dead, this one alive and kicking. I'm just not delusional that Geno had a chance to get in now. I've made plenty of argument about how Geno was going to get in instead of Erdrick before E3 happened and I was dead wrong about that. I honestly thought the fact that Dragon Quest characters were owned by three separate companies would've been a deal breaker. After Hero got in there is nothing that convince me that Geno has a legitimate shot. Starling picture got me a little hopeful, but we learn that starling wasn't really related to Smash Bros.

I genuinely support Geno's inclusion, but I'm not hope that the train going to change direction when it's coming straight for me at high speed. But if I'm wrong then I'm going to be super freaking happy.

 

[Deleted member]

You know smash ultimate in general has been pretty good all things considered you can have your criticisms but you can't say the roster in general has been disappointing. sure if geno is not in it will be disappointing but I wouldn't say it is doom and gloom.

I didn't want everyone back. I'll be the first to admit the roster is bloated with nobodies.

I wanted Geno.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Nothings wrong with Wynn. We cannot be naive and only “accept” evidence or reality that points to Geno’s favor. So far, the pass has been series that have no representation in smash thus far, and it has been the case.

Honestly, at this point we can only hope for more DLC, Nintendo has not really dived into DLC very strongly despite Nintendo’s president has stated is desire for more. Smash is the ideal game to do it and Sakurai has said he will do more fighters if it’s nintendo’s wishes.

There is hope.

My issue with wynn is never the ideas he presents, but merely his way of presenting them (in fact, a lot of people espouse similar opinions, albeit with the qualifier that they are opinions). He has a habit of stating personal feelings as objective fact, and trying to convince people that way. He can feel whatever way he wants all day long, but I'm sick to death of assumptions.

 

[wynn728]

You know smash ultimate in general has been pretty good all things considered you can have your criticisms but you can't say the roster in general has been disappointing. sure if geno is not in it will be disappointing but I wouldn't say it is doom and gloom.

Oh I will never say that this roster is disappointing. Sure Incineroar was extremely weak way to end the base game reveal, sad that all my favorite got passed over by Piranha Plant, and not the biggest fan of Hero but this roster is so far near perfection. Some of the gears are rusty but as a whole the machine is great. I will never say that this roster is bad, just wish that certain long time requested characters could've join the party for real.

 

[Vector Victor]

If I may be bold:

I think the pressure of Geno expectation has become over exerting and this thread went to bizarro world; where being disappointed is toxic, a sore winner is high fived, hope has fallen apart and an anti-hope niche is seen as acceptable.

 

[EmeraldNate]

Another direct is probably just gonna go by this week and there's gonna be no form of Super Mario RPG
Unless snes games for switch online.

 

[Loog]

Spoiler

Spoiler

I didn't want everyone back. I'll be the first to admit the roster is bloated with nobodies.

I wanted Geno.

that's fine but other people would say differently since every character has its fans.

 

[wynn728]

My issue with wynn is never the ideas he presents, but merely his way of presenting them (in fact, a lot of people espouse similar opinions, albeit with the qualifier that they are opinions). He has a habit of stating personal feelings as objective fact, and trying to convince people that way. He can feel whatever way he wants all day long, but I'm sick to death of assumptions.

Sorry but everyone does that. We don't need to begin any statement with "I think" or "I feel" to get the point across that it's an opinion. It's crap I say and everyone should take that when I say stuff it should be taken as an opinion.

 

[ForsakenM]

So first off guys, little kinda mean advice: the ignore button can be your friend sometimes. Some people don't change and don't care that what they say is unwanted.

If you guys got tired of me and what I say, I would expect the same. It's sad, but hey, the function is there for a reason.

If I may be bold:

I think the pressure of Geno expectation has become over exerting and this thread went to bizarro world; where being disappointed is toxic, a sore winner is high fived, hope has fallen apart and an anti-hope niche is seen as acceptable.

Hey bud, being disappointed is fine.

Acting like an SNK character is a bad pick because it's not what you wanted is immature...so, not fine.

I get it, we all want Geno. But as I mentioned before, get over yourselves and don't be sacks of crap if Geno doesn't make it. Fight harder for him.

Fight FOR Geno, not AGAINST other characters.

 

[MisterMike]

IF (keyword if) we were to get an announcement for a 2nd fighter pass. Do you think they would do it during this September direct or later on in the year? (Winter direct, Game Awards, ect.)

If we were to get a second Fighters Pass, I'd imagine they'd announce it around next year's E3, with the first fighter being revealed there as well. Fighters would take a while to get out, around 2.5 months on average.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Sorry but everyone does that. We don't need to begin any statement with "I think" or "I feel" to get the point across that it's an opinion. It's crap I say and everyone should take that when I say stuff it should be taken as an opinion.

Generally you do. Qualifiers exist to avoid misconception, and intent translates poorly through text.

EDIT: I'm gonna leave it at there for now, lest I risk further derailment of the thread.

 

[Marvel-Otaku-Man]

Sooo, I don't know if a KOF character is conformed at this point, but I'm really hoping Metal Slug makes it in. They could make a fun Bowser Jr./Koopalings type character with the four main protagonists.

 

[Loog]

Spoiler

Oh I will never say that this roster is disappointing. Sure Incineroar was extremely weak way to end the base game reveal, sad that all my favorite got passed over by Piranha Plant, and not the biggest fan of Hero but this roster is so far near perfection. Some of the gears are rusty but as a whole the machine is great. I will never say that this roster is bad, just wish that certain long time requested characters could've join the party for real.

Isn't the reason they showed Incineroar last was because he was developed last also I know your not one to have your hopes up but I feel a lot of the requested characters will happen eventually maybe not in Ultimate necessarily but maybe the next smash I mean things do change.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Some quick thoughts:

-With SNK and KoF almost a lock, I feel like this was a hard swerve of Tekken. That said, I'm not expecting a Namco rep as #5. People could argue a Tales rep but I don't really see it happening now. I feel like if Namco was getting another rep, it would have happened by now. Kind of feel like Hero's inclusion hurt most other sword users but that's a whole other can of worms.

-Not counting on Capcom either. Also feel like #4 would have been the time if it had happened and my bet was on Resident Evil. I don't think Resident Evil support is big enough to warrant the final slot.

-#5 is all but confirmed to be third party. I have a really hard time thinking of anyone first or second party that's not only popular enough to warrant this spot but also could have a new stage and music with them.

-Pretty sure Ryu is officially off the table now. Again, yet another I have a really hard time seeing close out the Season Pass, especially with the SNK character arguably being the most niche character we've gotten since Richter.

-I'm not super confident in a Western character closing out the Season Pass either but that's not really based on all too much.

All this said... I've got nothing...

 

[catsforlife1]

Ok after researching some stuff for Terry I got to say he looks really cool. I would be happy if he got in. Also Fatman I am really exited to see what that bird could mean. Also dont give up Gebros, not yet

 

[Ovaltine]

Sooo, I don't know if a KOF character is conformed at this point, but I'm really hoping Metal Slug makes it in. They could make a fun Bowser Jr./Koopalings type character with the four main protagonists.

Sabi said it's KoF, so that's not happening, alas.

---

Anyway, the storm's gonna start being felt tomorrow, and chances are, I'll be out from then on. That being said, until the FP is over (especially since I'm feeling Geno ain't in and I'm coming to acceptance with that... for the pass), I might take a break from this thread apart from posting art. It's gotten far too negative in here, and I never in my dreams thought I'd see people bashing SNK and Terry-freaking-Bogard of all people. It's irritating. Like my buddy ForsakenM said, fight for Geno, not against other characters.

However, I will still be fighting for Geno. I always will be. Operation Starfall is only going to continue from here, and after the FP, we don't know what the future holds. Until then, I'll be waiting to see what else happens while enjoying B-K, Hero, and Joker, as well as hopefully Terry or Nakoruru. What we did get out of the roster was nothing short of incredible, and even if Geno doesn't make it this time, I'm grateful. I just hope they can finagle him into the game in the future, and if it's impossible, they can bring his costume back.

I just need separation for my mental health, and I want to accept that Geno probably isn't happening sooner rather than later. I want to rip that bandage off, and since Nintendo's not doing it for me, I'll do it myself. That's it. Everyone else is free to hope for Geno, don't get me wrong, and my opinion is just my opinion, but my stance is firm.

It's been a hell of a ride, Genofriends. After the FP is over (and any post-FP salt has calmed down because I honestly expect it), if the thread is still going as a pro-Geno alliance for the future, I'll come back. If not, then well, I'll see you on the flipside! Feel free to catch me over on my Twitter (@pepperonisecret), where I'll always keep posting Geno things as I make them. If I make any Geno art, though, I'll likely still post it here, as well as anything I feel is very important for our boy.

I'll miss you all. <3