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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Fenriraga

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I'm still of a firm belief that if there is ANYONE at fault for Geno's absence from Smash all of these years, it's Square. Sakurai knows people want him, and to an extent, he wants him. He's wanted him in almost every game since Brawl. Do you guys seriously think Geno's absence is him being TONE DEAF? Please, I bet you he fights tooth and nail to try and get him in. I don't doubt Nintendo themselves are aware of the outcry as well.

But he is owned by Square. He missed his cameo in the Superstar Saga remake. That's a sign that Square was either wanting too much for him, or want people to forget about him so they can focus on their "relevant" IPs.

I don't doubt an agreement of some kind can be made with Square to use him, especially since two of their biggest IPs now have representation, but said agreement might be too much to handle within their time and budget.
 
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wynn728

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Man, this last week has just been an exercise of lowering expectations. First Overwatch rumors, then Ninja Gaiden, and then King of Fighters. It's like it got more and more niche as the rumors cycled through. Since a King of Fighters rep is all but confirmed, it's going to be really interesting who they pick for the final fighter.
Goomba
 
D

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It's not even remotely that simple. You have NO idea how carefully these people have to trend in order to keep their skin. The moment they say something so much as slightly incorrectly phrased or too specific is the moment a company can sick their lawyers on em and whoever their source is.
This carries an air of Nintendo or whoever already knowing who the insider is and just letting them throw out pictures of birds and crabs or whatever for shiggles, and if that's the case there's absolutely no benefit to the corporation for letting this continue. You either want to keep your goods secret or you're happy with letting it get out, encrypted or not.

It's the exact same thing as Phil Spencer basically saying no repeatedly about Banjo. Sure, it was a lie, but if it was the truth? Is he legally screwed because he told people what not to look for? And the minecraft folks who said Steve wasn't getting in?

Am I up poo-creek for telling you all that Dark Magician is 100% not getting in? If so I better lawyer up because I can guarantee it.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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I mean sakurai does make a lot of decisions where he listens to the fans but we can't act like he isnt tone deaf sometimes, for example the mistreatment of golden sun and the lack of waluigi. Even things such as his stance on assist trophies and cutscenes are defintley not in line with what the majority of fans think.
 

Nemuresu

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It's curious how the speculation regarding the DLC changed with each new reveal:
When Sakurai said Nintendo chose all the characters: "They're all gonna be promotional."
When Joker was announced: "It's just one character, they're not gonna spend so much money in third-party licenses."
When Hero and Banjo were confirmed: "Nintendo will want to promote Fire Emblem because they know more than us."
When Nintendo leaked SNK as part of the Pass: Not a single comment on promotional picks or Nintendo characters in general.
 

MattX20

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I won't escalate this further myself. If it does escalate, let it not be because of me.

However, how about I add some clarity for you guys about Sabi?

There you go, guys. It's definitely a KoF character, but those DMs of the character not being female are fake.

If we don't get Terry, I hope we get Nakoruru as I just love her design and think she would be cool for Smash.
My hope is for Terry or Mai because those two have been around since the beginning and it would feel disingenuous to put Kyo over them
 

Datboigeno

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The difference between Hero and SNK in terms of why people may or may not be losing hope for Geno is for all the crap we've given Hero and Dragon Quest prior to it's reveal it's actually the DLC character that has given us the biggest thing pointing towards him getting in and that's of course the lack of Geno's Mii costume. That goes a long way and it's pretty much the only thing giving us any semblance of hope nowadays.

SNK on the other hand is a bullet point of things against us:

1) It further proves that Spirits may disconfirm characters as SNK has had no representation in Base game.

2) It shows that Sakurai may be focusing more on companies that have no representation in Smash and that would again be SNK, Geno comes from Square Enix which is an already represented company.

3) The Starling pic may have always been referencing Samsho and Nekoruru, Sure it doesn't point towards KoF but Nekoruru is more well known for being in Samsho if not only appearing in Samsho. Starling = Bird Bird = Nekoruru. The Starling was one of the two things that were giving me hope and it may be null.

So on so forth, Smash almost never ends with a bang either and Geno would be that. Plus the Mii costume may not matter in the end, It may. Nobody knows.

Expect the worst hope for the best as I always say.
Bird pic was already said by fatman to not be about KOF. The first two points would have been applied to literally any character that wasn’t Geno and wasn’t from a returning franchise which was the consensus for what character 4 would have been if not Geno. So really it seems like people would have freaked out regardless if the character was SNK or not as long as it wasn’t Geno. Even if it was from a returning franchise people probably would have framed the situation as bad for Geno somehow.
 
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TooManyToastahs

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Hey everyone, I was debating on whether or not to leave a message after this had all died down but this doesn’t look like it’s dying down anytime soon.

Why is everyone giving up now? Even after EVO 2019 people still were latched onto hope, but suddenly because an SNK character is going to be fighter #4, tons of people are getting gloomier outlooks on things.

What about fighter #5? What about a bonus character? What about another Fighter Pass? why are we giving up now?

I don’t mean to just repeat what has probably been stated numerous times, especially since I don’t view this thread as often nowadays, but from my perspective it appears we’re all just throwing in the towel.

C’mon everyone! Read the dang title of this thread! Let’s get this show on the road!
 

MattX20

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Hey everyone, I was debating on whether or not to leave a message after this had all died down but this doesn’t look like it’s dying down anytime soon.

Why is everyone giving up now? Even after EVO 2019 people still were latched onto hope, but suddenly because an SNK character is going to be fighter #4, tons of people are getting gloomier outlooks on things.

What about fighter #5? What about a bonus character? What about another Fighter Pass? why are we giving up now?

I don’t mean to just repeat what has probably been stated numerous times, especially since I don’t view this thread as often nowadays, but from my perspective it appears we’re all just throwing in the towel.

C’mon everyone! Read the dang title of this thread! Let’s get this show on the road!
I've not given up. I won't until all 5 are released/revealed, in fact, I feel more optimistic now because it wasn't the grueling pre Dragon Quest Heroes confirmation 6 month period
 
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TooManyToastahs

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I've not given up. I won't until all 5 are released/revealed, in fact, I feel more optimistic now because it wasn't the grueling pre Dragon Quest Heroes confirmation 6 month period
That’s the spirit!


okay wait that joke might be poor taste-
 

JoltSmash13

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Joltsmash13 - The Starling Photo is from Sabi's source who has used cryptic images for his leaks. (fatmanonice is part of the same Discord, who was the one that posted the photo on this thread for us.)

This source is a deep one (Only "leaks" when it is concrete) that posts cryptic photos in advanced to reveals, directs, etc.

For example, he posted a picture of a blue crab before the reveal of Link's Awakening for the Switch. Blue crabs are the first enemies you see in that game.

Then he posted a photo of a game called "Puzzle Witch" prior to the Banjo and Kazooie Smash reveal. Please correct me if I am wrong, but did he post a follow up picture of a Bear and Bird or was it someone else on the discord?

Now the "Starling Photo" is a Starling on the roof. We have been informed that the photo hint is still active after the Fire Emblem Presentation, Pokemon video(s) and Sakurai's Hero "hands-on demo" video.

The Source only hints with Nintendo related games. So the hint is probably pointing towards something being revealed at the next Nintendo Direct, which is most likely some time in September. The hint can be just about anything Nintendo related (Current games, New Games, etc.), just minus Fire Emblem and Pokemon. (Confirmed he would use black eagles if it was a FE hint and he despises Pokemon Sword and Shield)

As Geno fans, of course we are being hopeful that it is for Geno. The bird he chose is specific, a Starling. Star - Star and Ling - Young or Small thing. Quick summary - Geno is a toy doll that a small "star person" named ♥♪!? takes control of in SMRPG.

But of course, take with a large grain of salt since it is so cryptic we don't know what it is.
And now the whole Sabi thing is happening again.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Look, I’m an exceedingly liberal guy, but I have no idea why you’re so upset over Terry. I kind of fail to see why the idea of depicting an American character as a buff blonde badass is an offensive thing, and his iconic Engrish stuff is just due to the voice acting limitations of the arcade era. Terry is a character made with love, not hate, and he’s not exactly depicting a minority anyway, so...?
I think I escalated things a bit further than I meant to with Terry in trying to argue greater points about representation and characters in fiction. So, for that much, I do apologize. Being buff blonde badass isn't inherently an offensive thing and wasn't supposed to be my main point. My original point was that we have so few American made or based characters, and the next one we're looking to get will just be a more stereotypical American character that has lots of (again, very much so in my opinion, I dislike lots of characters in lots of media and fiction that do this sort of thing and have little patience for them) dumb taunt-based catchphrases. Like, Terry himself, isn't some completely terrible thing, but I do recognize issues (and maybe a better way to put it is just, subject regarding) representation big and small, and have a tendency to discuss them. I also have a tendency to push very heavily against people who downplay discussions of representation and how we got about portraying characters/people in media because I think it's an important issue that needs to be discussed even if people don't always like that idea. This is a huge extension of my own literary analysis techniques in which I completely push back against, "The Death of the Author," formalism, and New Criticism literary theories. I subscribe to much more of New Historicism and Biographical Criticism that interpret and examine literature (and art by extension) through the lens of the circumstances it was made in and how it informs us about the piece. I'm a little too passionate about discussing such contexts and examining such topics by defending that stance.

So, I do apologize for going a bit too far with my criticism of Terry Bogard and derailing the thread a bit more than I intended. Again, I will drop it for everybody involved.
 

Dynamic Worlok

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Let's all try to keep our heads, yeah? It's not the end of the world if fighter #4 doesn't pan out in our favor.
 

Musubi

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He told us. Something you all have to understand was that I was never supposed to make it public in the first place so there's a distinct possibility that I won't even be allowed to say what it actually meant. I'm sorry. This kind of all unfolded because of me but we made a promise so people will have to wait things out.
Since the source ended up telling you all, does that mean we should expect to find out what the starling picture mean very soon? If so, I'm excited because regardless if it's Geno or not, not knowing what it means has been bugging me.
 

MisterMike

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doing skooma
With a Galoomba.
Hey everyone, I was debating on whether or not to leave a message after this had all died down but this doesn’t look like it’s dying down anytime soon.

Why is everyone giving up now? Even after EVO 2019 people still were latched onto hope, but suddenly because an SNK character is going to be fighter #4, tons of people are getting gloomier outlooks on things.

What about fighter #5? What about a bonus character? What about another Fighter Pass? why are we giving up now?

I don’t mean to just repeat what has probably been stated numerous times, especially since I don’t view this thread as often nowadays, but from my perspective it appears we’re all just throwing in the towel.

C’mon everyone! Read the dang title of this thread! Let’s get this show on the road!
People here hate hope. Hope is scary and opens you up to feeling hurt if everything goes wrong. So people would rather give up than keep their hope alive.
DANGANRONPA
 

UberMadman

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I see a bit more where you’re coming from now. The only counterpoint I’d like to make is that Americans aren’t exactly hurting in terms of representation across lots of media, even if there aren’t many characters of “American” ethnicity in Smash, (though a lot of Smash characters come from worlds where America doesn’t exist, so that’s not particularly shocking). Also, you don’t have to like Terry, but there’s a reason he’s so popular; he’s very enthusiastic and charming in a lot of people’s eyes. Since it seems like you didn’t know much about him before today, if he does end up being the Smash character, I recommend approaching him with an open mindset!
 

RetrogamerMax

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It took me awhile, but I had to read through more than several pages to catch up with you guys.

If it does turn out to be a KoF rep, I think that confirms my suspicions that Sakurai is just putting in whoever he wants because he likes them the most. All the characters are Sakurai picks... we've been duped...
That's a wrap! Geno is in bois and gurls! We won!

Even if we are, though, we have to be prepared for that possibility. I'm telling you guys, we have to make bigger content. I'm ready as **** to mobilize (... after this hurricane goes by lol) and make big stuff. If you know any game devs or people experienced in game development, recommend this to them. Put Geno in mods. Put him in fan games. Do whatever you possibly can.

We have to get louder. LOUDER.
Well Geno is already in Smash Legacy XP and Smash Crusade so he kind of already is in the moding scene.

I won't escalate this further myself. If it does escalate, let it not be because of me.

However, how about I add some clarity for you guys about Sabi?

View attachment 236400

There you go, guys. It's definitely a KoF character, but those DMs of the character not being female are fake.

If we don't get Terry, I hope we get Nakoruru as I just love her design and think she would be cool for Smash.
Lol! Those trolls trying to mess with our heads.

sabi should just tell us if the bird is geno. let the expectations die
She can't otherwise Nintendo's lawyers will file a lawsuit on her.
 
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xpnc

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I feel like it would have made sense to show a fighting game character at EVO, but here we are I guess

Kind of ironic that people were super concerned about Nintendo picking the characters and now it shows that at least 3 of the 5 are hardcore Sakurai picks and now people are stressing about that for #5.
You're not wrong. Huh.

Also lol @ anyone upset at Terry for being an American stereotype when the only (implied) Canadian characters look like this

1567384986716.png
 

Loog

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You know I get some are rather mixed with the idea of terry being fighter number 4 but he can still end up being a fun character gameplay wise.
 

SKX31

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Yeah, this proves my point. You are complaining about Terry being a stereotype when that is one of the reasons everyone loves him.

You are acting like something is a problem when it's not. It's the same for people who think Terry is the worst pick ever because he's another human male, it's warped identity politics judging a character as 'negative' in some form instead of looking at why people love the character.

I DO want politics to stay out of gaming, unless that's the point of the game itself. Every time politics get involved, it ruins games. I have lots of evidence to stupid socio-political garbage ruining games during development and causing controversies that shouldn't even exist.

Detroit Become Human is an example of socio-political in games done right, as that is part of the game. Dogging on developers because their artistic freedom doesn't fit your views and causing fan-funded games to lose that funding because you attack and insult those fans who funded the game?

That's not how you do it.
*Sees a chance to play Devil's Advocate.*

*Smirks.*

TIME FOR THE PLUNGE! I'll excuse myself in advance for escalating too, but I think this needs to be noted:

Anyhow, whether it's conscious or not, socio-political factors have a habit to seep into art whether they're political or not. That's human behavior, and it's linked to those who create and consume media. Video games are not immune to this, being an art form. Sure, Contra may not be political as such but just take a look at its playable characters - its heroes. They are not-Arnold Schwarzenegger and not-Sylvester Stallone. What are those two actors most known for again? Their connection to a idealized manliness. Dudes who can take on entire armies shirtless while flexing their pecs. Who cares about the rest of the cast? The big buff dudes are stars of the show, and are portrayed as "real men". And Contra does a similar thing to the movies - Contra's heroes fight hordes of aliens without worrying about such a pansy thing as "protective gear". Contra's not an isolated case when the legendary Bad Dudes and Duke Nukem were created from the same cloth.

I'm saying this as someone who absolutely enjoyed Arnie's Commando (the most Arnie of Arnie films) and considers Rambo II a weird guilty pleasure (Rambo III hasn't aged well. Guess why.) : how a fictional character's framed has its roots in sometimes serious matters. I don't believe for a second that Contra was made to send a serious message, but it does send a message regardless. Whether the creator wanted it or not. It's really hard to avoid.

Is it truly wrong to at least dive deeper? Sometimes asking those questions can be extremely difficult to do. Or uncomfortable. But even though the whole plate might taste awful, knowing about stuff one might take for granted (like how one defines ones identity contra others) can be a major benefit. Because identity has strengths and weaknesses. Always.

As for Geno? From an outsider's perspective (me) he kinda seems like a JPRG take on Pinocchio. When one thinks of Pinocchio, what does one think of? The Disney movie, most likely, but also the older stories. Coming to think of it, Geno's similarities to Pinocchio are uncanny. Wooden boy, connected to a star in some shape or form, as well as wishes. The Disney film has also been subject of serious historical study, to qoute Wikipedia:
Nicolas Sammond argues that the film is "an apt metaphor for the metaphysics of midcentury American child-rearing" and that the film is "ultimately an assimilationist fable".
This qoute was pulled from Susan Honeyman's "Consuming Agency in Fairy Tales, Childlore and Folkliterature.". That's as far from serious political stuff as you can go, and it's still subject to academic interest 50+ years after the film was released.

What's to say that some academic, writing in lets say 2070, won't write about Geno, his story and his fanbase? And frame it in serious matters? It might be of interest to said academic, for example, to ask questions such as how Geno attracted such loyalty, how his fans reacted to (un)welcome news and what they do right now. The 2070 scholar might even decide to qoute your very post to prove a point about the social climate right now.

Geno wasn't created to send any serious message, but it's easy for non-serious characters to be caught up in serious matters. Would A.A. Milne, Winnie the Pooh's creator, ever believe you if you told him China decided to outright ban Winnie's image?
 
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wynn728

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What about fighter #5? What about a bonus character? What about another Fighter Pass? why are we giving up now?
Spirits mean that a character isn't going to happen for the current Fighters Pass, especially when 4 out 5 are all characters who don't have Spirits.
There is zero evidence that a bonus fighter is going to happen.
Good chance this will be the last Fighters Pass with the way Sakurai talks.
The writing is on the wall, it just took people this long to come to terms with it.
 

ForsakenM

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Yeah, no, I'm good.

These big companies aren't hating on any minorities. It's called that characters that fall under these minority groups either don't exist, or are not nearly as popular as those who don't. That isn't on big companies: that is on creators for not making character that people like that are also minorities.

You know what else does that a disservice? All these companies that are trying to appeal to minorities keep slapping that minority label on their product without really caring about it. They use minorities to get money.

Why are there not more minority characters that are popular? Because there aren't very many minority characters to begin with, and those that exist are either hollow and have not character deeper than their minority status, or the minority status was tacked on last minute and truly means nothing. After this is a very small amount of characters that are a minority but are also good characters and have love...but they just haven't hit that big status yet. Oddly enough, I think Undertale is a good example that this CAN happen when the characters are done right, but they HAVE to be done right.

So before I dig into this Dragon and Phoenix blend from a badass local Chinese restaurant, let me give you all some advice.

You know the saying 'see the forest for the trees?' It is said for those who keep looking for details and going deeper into something when the problem is face value, the opposite of 'read between the lines' as it were. Well, people nowadays keep looking at just the trees, and we have a reverse problem. It's all about the face value, all about the very basics of who people are and what is going on, and no one seems to be able to look past the branches and see the real reasons behind things.

If you like a character and want them in Smash because they are female, that's fine.

If you don't want characters or don't like them because they aren't female, that is also fine but this is heading towards a line.

If you want ANY character in that represents something just because they represent that, that's fine but my god is that basic and shallow.

If you DON'T want any character that represents something because you think that it's wrong, that's fine but you are inching towards that line.

If you hate on another character or their fans for any reason, that's over the line.

TL;DR Try to like and support a character for more than just their basic traits that literally anyone has and don't bash other characters or people who like them because they aren't who you want.
 

Dan

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If it really is an SNK character then I'm surprised they threw us a bone with Banjo; the DLC is already a win in that regard, but the cherry on top would obviously be our boi. At this point I would honestly settle for any non-anime character.
 

StarLight42

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I won't escalate this further myself. If it does escalate, let it not be because of me.

However, how about I add some clarity for you guys about Sabi?

View attachment 236400

There you go, guys. It's definitely a KoF character, but those DMs of the character not being female are fake.

If we don't get Terry, I hope we get Nakoruru as I just love her design and think she would be cool for Smash.
Thanks for getting clarification!
 

Dynamic Worlok

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Spirits mean that a character isn't going to happen for the current Fighters Pass
Heard it before, still an assumption. Even if it turns out to be correct, that won't make it not have been an assumption. Always doom and gloom with you.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I won't escalate this further myself. If it does escalate, let it not be because of me.

However, how about I add some clarity for you guys about Sabi?

View attachment 236400

There you go, guys. It's definitely a KoF character, but those DMs of the character not being female are fake.

If we don't get Terry, I hope we get Nakoruru as I just love her design and think she would be cool for Smash.
Would Nakoruru be counted as a KoF character in this context? She’s usually from SamSho
 

ForsakenM

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Would Nakoruru be counted as a KoF character in this context? She’s usually from SamSho
As I mentioned before, SamSho fell out hard but Nakoruru found a home in KoF. Thus, she represents SNK's roots in many fashions and can easily fall under an KoF character.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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I see a bit more where you’re coming from now. The only counterpoint I’d like to make is that Americans aren’t exactly hurting in terms of representation across lots of media, even if there aren’t many characters of “American” ethnicity in Smash, (though a lot of Smash characters come from worlds where America doesn’t exist, so that’s not particularly shocking). Also, you don’t have to like Terry, but there’s a reason he’s so popular; he’s very enthusiastic and charming in a lot of people’s eyes. Since it seems like you didn’t know much about him before today, if he does end up being the Smash character, I recommend approaching him with an open mindset!
I realize that Americans are certainly not hurting for representation (well, white, straight males at least are not). It's just more of my hope that we can turn more away from stereotyping in general and I want to be fair in calling them out when I see them regardless of who is being stereotyped in some way. Obviously, something like Smash is going to struggle more than most with that since so many big name characters aren't super great in those areas either, and I recognize that as a reality that has to be dealt with. Again, I jumped a bit too much since I didn't really see anything Terry brought to the table in the least bit and I saw some parts of how he is portrayed that I don't really like, especially in terms of Smash that just doesn't have a whole lot of "western representation" (this expands to all developers and our current reliance on Japanese only third parties is particularly where I want representation from, not so much just "American characters..." and I think a lot of people do want to see more from the West in Smash). It's all been a bit more of a kneejerk vent than I've meant it to be when this news blindsided me earlier today.

We'll see if his appearance in Smash will do anything for me, but I don't know if he's going to be able to do anything to win me over. Terry just seems like a bit of "dumb" (in the sense of spouting out certain taunts and quotes) dude who is supposed to be endearing from what I gather, but completely fails to inspire anything in me resembling appreciation. I'll have to see how he's handled. And again, a SNK rep in general is also just about the least interesting or stimulating character choice for me, so I'm also working through that.

You're not wrong. Huh.

Also lol @ anyone upset at Terry for being an American stereotype when the only (implied) Canadian characters look like this
Are the Ice Climbers expressly Canadian? First I've heard of this.
 

ForsakenM

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Gonna take a break for a couple hours and watch some anime.

All y'all being mostly on tilt is tilting me, and I take a hard pass on that.

Still, I want it to be known that my gut says it's Terry. Like, REALLY screams Terry.
 

Ovaltine

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I'm going to throw out my opinion here:

I don't think Geno's in the Fighter's Pass. I think his best chances are as individual DLC (not necessarily bonus, even), and if not that, then future DLC plans, if any come to fruition. If none of that happens, the Mario RPGs is what we should be looking for. Again, we have to be louder. We have to make sure Square hears us. We have to make sure Nintendo hears us.

Also, I know someone mentioned the possibility of Square wanting to keep Geno dead and buried, and to that, I say: lol. Yeah, that ain't gonna happen, not on my watch. A lot of people love him. If anyone thinks he'll be forgotten, I have bad news for them.
 

MissingGlitch

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IF (keyword if) we were to get an announcement for a 2nd fighter pass. Do you think they would do it during this September direct or later on in the year? (Winter direct, Game Awards, ect.)
 

Rie Sonomura

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IF (keyword if) we were to get an announcement for a 2nd fighter pass. Do you think they would do it during this September direct or later on in the year? (Winter direct, Game Awards, ect.)
Later in the year, especially if this coming direct is somehow a dual reveal
 

TheCJBrine

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IF (keyword if) we were to get an announcement for a 2nd fighter pass. Do you think they would do it during this September direct or later on in the year? (Winter direct, Game Awards, ect.)
At Minecon with Steve as the first character. I think it’ll be after this pass’s last character gets released if not close to that.
 

Zav22

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I suppose, idk.

Honestly, there was a “leak” that mentioned Marco from Metal Slug and Frisk, but it seemed fake, and Marco was supposed to be the 5th character. Would be funny if this was how it turned out, but idk.
I hope not, I've heard of those characters but have no connection with them whatsoever. All we have that's keeping Geno and Frisk in speculation is their soundtracks being taken down, and whether or not one of them shows up might lead to the other. Fans are even thinking that K. Rool being buried by that rock in Banjos trailer might lead to Frisk being revealed since he was underground. It's a bit of a stretch but we'll see. Also I saw on Papagenos channel that the 4th character got leaked by Nintendo that it would be someone from SNK lol. There's still a chance though.
 
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