Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Ovaltine]

A portable spin off? Never considered it a mainline Mario game. Most people forget it even exists.

Eh, I'd consider it mainline enough. After all, it gave us Daisy while its sequel gave us Wario for the first time. I'd say they're pretty important games to the series.

That being said, though, you could apply that point to Tatanga then, and people don't seem that eager to see him come back. It's all a muddied pool of objectivity and subjectivity, really.

... I'd really like to see Tatanga come back, though.

 

[Quillion]

Eh, I'd consider it mainline enough. After all, it gave us Daisy while its sequel gave us Wario for the first time. I'd say they're pretty important games to the series.

That being said, though, you could apply that point to Tatanga then, and people don't seem that eager to see him come back. It's all a muddied pool of objectivity and subjectivity, really.

... I'd really like to see Tatanga come back, though.

The fact that Tatanga and Wart are more worthy than Geno on the grounds of actually being main series characters (popularity be damned) amuses me.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

What about Dr. Mario? What do we consider him?

 

[Doctor Lucky]

I mean Mario canon as in the greater Mario franchise. I still don't think he can add anything even taking into account the self-containment of most Mario games, spinoffs or not.

Of course Geno can add something.

He can add Geno.

 

[Ovaltine]

The fact that Tatanga and Wart are more worthy than Geno on the grounds of actually being main series characters (popularity be damned) amuses me.

Yeah, I feel they're very underrated characters. Granted, Wart might not have that much moveset potential and Tatanga might get a bit weird with his ship and all, but... where is the love for them? I love those guys, man.

Honestly, though, as much as I love Geno, I still stand by my opinion that a revival for him in the Mario series would be more meaningful than Smash. (I'm leading Operation Starfall, though, so I'm... rather biased, admittedly!)

 

[Dorayaki]

It doesn't matter. That's the point. There has never been some silly restriction of "spin-off" at any point. It's one thing if Sakurai ignores games not made by Nintendo when trying to represent Nintendo characters. That has more to do with licensing. But if he cared so much, why was Waluigi an AT in the first place? Because he's a major Mario character. He's appeared in some form since Melee without fail, which is the first time he could have an appearance as is. He's there because he matters.

It matters sort when we realize that some characters are being more frequently promoted and others don't, and Geno obviously belong to the latter group, let's be honest. We fans all want him to go to the favored group. Rosalina and BowserJr are simply classified into the first group since their birth in games.

While Mario RPGs are not really considered its main titles, the major thing is still that Mario RPGs do not keep its own exclusive stories and main cast, but rather more like each title has seperate story, which is why Geno is only exclusive to one of the story.

Assists, on the other hand doesn't have that big restriction. It may include characters that were highly hoped candidates, or those are obvious secondary characters. I would say if Geno is not a fighter, Nintendo should also give him a try as an assist as well.

Honestly, though, as much as I love Geno, I still stand by my opinion that a revival for him in the Mario series would be more meaningful than Smash. (I'm leading Operation Starfall, though, so I'm... rather biased, admittedly!)

I can only surmise that since Smash is about celebrating Nintendo's history, there has to be some caveats to not having Mario characters be too dominant, and walling out the spinoff characters seems to be one of them.

I wouldn't say the celebration is the case if NIntendo don't think SMRPG is significant to them in their perspective. But they could just ultilize Geno and others more often in Mario titles if that doesn't neeed too much second thoughts.

If Geno can only be in Smash Ultimate or in a new Paper Mario title as a partner next year, just between the two I would go choose the latter, which is the option that does better to him.

 

[Quillion]

What about Dr. Mario? What do we consider him?

The main character of his own spinoff series, and an incarnation of the main character of the greater franchise. Two things Geno doesn't have going for him.

Honestly, though, as much as I love Geno, I still stand by my opinion that a revival for him in the Mario series would be more meaningful than Smash. (I'm leading Operation Starfall, though, so I'm... rather biased, admittedly!)

Ha! I share your view. I think it would be a better step for Geno to establish himself as a staple spinoff character at the very least. I really do wish Nintendo would stop ignoring the RPG characters for the spinoffs (that said, they're also ignoring the RPG characters in the RPGs themselves).

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, did I come at a bad time?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Crazy thing is Mario is really the ONLY franchise that could be used in this example and until it happens it's impossible.

The only other franchises with worthwhile spinoff games are Pokemon and Zelda. The former having the exact same characters as mainline and the latter only having 1 spinoff Hyrule Warriors, and then that weird Tingle subseries... Linkle when?

 

[Deleted member]

What about Dr. Mario? What do we consider him?

Not the main character of his series, and a side character overall.

 

[Ovaltine]

Ha! I share your view. I think it would be a better step for Geno to establish himself as a staple spinoff character at the very least. I really do wish Nintendo would stop ignoring the RPG characters for the spinoffs (that said, they're also ignoring the RPG characters in the RPGs themselves).

I know, right? It's so frustrating. The RPG characters really do get the shaft rather often. That being said, Geno being in the spinoffs and a remake/sequel to SMRPG might be a stepping stone in the right direction for the Mario RPG characters, SMRPG or otherwise. It might even help with giving Paper Mario and the Mario & Luigi series some direction again. I could even see them incorporating SMRPG elements into M&L, given their similarities... and maybe even Paper Mario, too.

C'mon, Ninty and Square! I'm salivating over here!

 

[Quillion]

Oh, did I come at a bad time?

Oh no, you're at a good time to convince me why a non-franchise main character, non-main series character, and non-recurring character should be in Smash.

And forewarning, I don't value popularity on the grounds of argumentum ad populum fallacy.

Crazy thing is Mario is really the ONLY franchise that could be used in this example and until it happens it's impossible.

The only other franchises with worthwhile spinoff games are Pokemon and Zelda. The former having the exact same characters as mainline and the latter only having 1 spinoff Hyrule Warriors, and then that weird Tingle subseries... Linkle when?

I still think the walling out of spinoff characters is a good idea, as nice as it would be to have them in. Again, it stops certain series from being too dominant and/or erratic.

I know, right? It's so frustrating. The RPG characters really do get the shaft rather often. That being said, Geno being in the spinoffs and a remake/sequel to SMRPG might be a stepping stone in the right direction for the Mario RPG characters, SMRPG or otherwise. It might even help with giving Paper Mario and the Mario & Luigi series some direction again. I could even see them incorporating SMRPG elements into M&L, given their similarities... and maybe even Paper Mario, too.

C'mon, Ninty and Square! I'm salivating over here!

That and I'm also mad that Nintendo ignores the Wario characters in the spinoffs. They deserve some extended Mario love, too!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Oh no, you're at a good time to convince me why a non-franchise main character, non-main series character, and non-recurring character should be in Smash.

And forewarning, I don't value popularity on the grounds of argumentum ad populum fallacy.



I still think the walling out of spinoff characters is a good idea, as nice as it would be to have them in. Again, it stops certain series from being too dominant and/or erratic.



That and I'm also mad that Nintendo ignores the Wario characters in the spinoffs. They deserve some extended Mario love, too!

After Piranha Plant I'm pretty sure they're not worried about Mario becoming too dominant.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Eh, I'd consider it mainline enough. After all, it gave us Daisy while its sequel gave us Wario for the first time. I'd say they're pretty important games to the series.

That being said, though, you could apply that point to Tatanga then, and people don't seem that eager to see him come back. It's all a muddied pool of objectivity and subjectivity, really.

... I'd really like to see Tatanga come back, though.

Me too, though at least Mario character options for Smash are finally starting to shrink (main/secondary ones, anyway, I imagine Sakurai would have trouble picking other enemies that can actually work besides HAMMER TIME).

That and I'm also mad that Nintendo ignores the Wario characters in the spinoffs. They deserve some extended Mario love, too!

It's less ignoring and more of that annoying habit of not feeling okay about using other people's stuff (out of respect, presumably). If it weren't for Koizumi and Odyssey, Pauline would have gone back into the character vault after the Mario Vs. DK series ended.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What about Dr. Mario? What do we consider him?

Pure spin-off character. Not even a contest. He's even less important story-wise than Geno. And like Daisy, only got in because they could be based off another character. Dr. Mario might've had music going for him at best. But nothing else otherwise.

It matters sort when we realize that some characters are being more frequently promoted and others don't, and Geno obviously belong to the latter group, let's be honest. We fans all want him to go to the favored group. Rosalina and BowserJr are simply classified into the first group since their birth in games.

While Mario RPGs are not really considered its main titles, the major thing is still that Mario RPGs do not keep its own exclusive stories and main cast, but rather more like each title has seperate story, which is why Geno is only exclusive to one of the story.

Assists, on the other hand doesn't have that big restriction. It may include characters that were highly hoped candidates, or those are obvious secondary characters. I would say if Geno is not a fighter, Nintendo should also give him a try as an assist as well.

There was never a silly "main game only" restriction to begin with. Again, as noted, Dr. Mario proves that to be a load of hogwash. He's 100% spin-off and nothing more. Daisy, as I said above, had the same position; easy to create as playable due to being a clone. Only difference is Dr. Mario's music also held a bit of importance to Sakurai.

Assists never had any real restrictions, and characters pretty much have the same ones overall. We aren't going to see Assists of characters from a game like Hyrule Warriors due to being made by a non-Nintendo-related company. That's why we don't see that content. It's a licensing nightmare dealing with multiple companies when it's easier to use in-house series content. It has nothing to do with spin-off or not. Look how long it took to get any Oracle games content from the Zelda series. Capcom was heavily involved with it. It was a pain to get it done. Meanwhile Brawl got lots of Sonic content because it was one company to deal with. Not major team-ups between two, where copyrights get complicated. In fact, this is pretty much what was always Geno's downside. He is a Square-Enix character, making him harder to license. They are stingy(music aside), and the character isn't one they put into their own spin-offs. Which as the owner, they can put him in any non-Mario game they want. They can't reference anything they want, if it's Mario-specific, since they don't own that IP, but when you think about it, why have Geno without all his partners? Thus, he gets underused cause he's still a Mario character. That's just a licensing thing, really.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh no, you're at a good time to convince me why a non-franchise main character, non-main series character, and non-recurring character should be in Smash.

And forewarning, I don't value popularity on the grounds of argumentum ad populum fallacy.

I don't know, it seems like everyone else is already doing that

 

[Quillion]

After Piranha Plant I'm pretty sure they're not worried about Mario becoming too dominant.

At least Piranha Plant is a main series character. And yes, I fully support more enemies being playable.

Pure spin-off character. Not even a contest. He's even less important story-wise than Geno. And like Daisy, only got in because they could be based off another character. Dr. Mario might've had music going for him at best. But nothing else otherwise.

No he's not. Again, Doc is at least the main character of his own spinoff series and an incarnation of the main character of the franchise as a whole.

There was never a silly "main game only" restriction to begin with. Again, as noted, Dr. Mario proves that to be a load of hogwash. He's 100% spin-off and nothing more. Daisy, as I said above, had the same position; easy to create as playable due to being a clone. Only difference is Dr. Mario's music also held a bit of importance to Sakurai.

I will post this again so you can reply to it:

It's not my opinion, it's my observation. I admit that having spinoff characters in Smash would be nice (we would have Waluigi, and yes also Geno), but Smash has been resistant to having those characters for some vague reason. I can only surmise that since Smash is about celebrating Nintendo's history, there has to be some caveats to not having Mario characters be too dominant, and walling out the spinoff characters seems to be one of them.

 

[Fatmanonice]

After Piranha Plant I'm pretty sure they're not worried about Mario becoming too dominant.

This. Love it or hate it, it's basically the ultimate "we'll add whoever the **** we want, thank you very much" statement as far as characters go. If they want Geno, they'll figure out a way to add Geno.

 

[Tetrin]

At least there is precedent for Daisy being a main series character, even though she is a one-shot in that department. Geno has to be not a main series character, not a recurring character, and not a franchise main character all at once. Waluigi at least has being a spinoff staple, even though I think that he's also a pure spinoff character should wall him out.

Hardly. Daisy wasn't this tremendously requested character during any Smash, and Waluigi being purely a spinoff character represents a whole different side of the Mario realm. I think it's safe to say Waluigi comes to mind before Daisy when talking about Mario spinoffs.

As for your impartiality concerning Geno, I'll give you a basic outline of why I want him. First and foremost, Geno's popularity is commendable. Practically no one-off characters who aren't the face of their own game (and in most cases, I'd argue even then) receive this much fanservice. Very clearly he's had an impact on a lot of people who've played his game. Of course, you're part of the ones that don't swoon from his charm, and it's fine. But believe it or not when I tell you his importance to gaming is more substantial than at first glance.

To preface, RPG's were generally obscured by more flashy titles at the time, and though they did have their fair share of fans, it continued to be a substandard amount for quite a while here in the West. Enter Mario RPG; a unique twist on your average Mario adventure at the time, and destined for generous profit given its branding as a Mario game. For some, Mario RPG helped ignite a flame that would soon evolve into a burning passion for the genre, and for others, the game left an impression for being so different than games they were used to. In any case, Mario RPG was helped push the RPG genre into the limelight, and this is part of why I want Geno in Smash; I think Mario RPG games are overdue for a rep in Smash taking into account their sales, and there's really no better place to start imo than Mario RPG, the game that helped set the current RPGs into motion and (this is even coming from someone who finds Partner's in Time better) even the game with the most memorable characters. Geno, the undisputed most beloved of the characters introduced and arguably the character who's the backbone of the story. While you could argue "Mario represents the RPG games well enough", I think that's kind of a disservice to the games since the whole point of the RPG games were to provide a fun and different take on Mario. It doesn't sit right with me knowing that the most commonplace of characters in the franchise (and in gaming as a whole) is representative games that, strip them of their "Mario" status, would probably be unrecognizable to most.

On top of that, Geno is someone I find to have very interesting potential for a moveset. For reference, I suggest the Project M mod on the first page with a fan-created moveset in use. I definitely don't want a carbon copy of what was shown in that video, but I think it sends the message well that Geno has a very large arsenal of moves at his disposal (probably one much greater than you'd expect for a one-off character) that, for the most part, are all practically unheard of in existing movesets.

But anyway, his appeal isn't for everyone, and you don't have to force yourself to find what you consider good in him. These are just some of the reasons I feel the way I do.

 

[Deleted member]

At least Piranha Plant is a main series character. And yes, I fully support more enemies being playable.



No he's not. Again, Doc is at least the main character of his own spinoff series and an incarnation of the main character of the franchise as a whole.



I will post this again so you can reply to it:

Your argument was that Geno wasn't the main character of his series. Neither is Doc. They are both side characters.

And, if that isn't a good enough example for you...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No he's not. Again, Doc is at least the main character of his own spinoff series and an incarnation of the main character of the franchise as a whole.

That's still a spin-off character through and through. Trying to make arbitrary distinctions that don't change the fact he's still a spin-off character is making your point hold less and less water. He isn't from the main series. Just like Geno. He was an easy clone. Just like Daisy. It doesn't remotely matter if he was based upon Mario or not. He is still not a main-series character no matter how you try and make it sound like. These excuses aren't holding up, man. Just let it go. There's a difference between having an opinion and just being plain wrong. Daisy was from a main game first. Fair. But that doesn't work for the Doc no matter how you try to spin it. If it doesn't work for Doc, then it doesn't work for any Mario character. If one spin-off character is important, why aren't the rest in their own right?

Besides that, Geno is a major character in the story. Among the 5 protagonists, only Peach actually holds no real story significance, and even she got SMRPG references in Melee(where do you think the Frying Pan first originated as one of her tools?).

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The thing is fan rules boil down to one thing. "It hasn't happened yet, so it won't happen ever." Has it happened? That's subjective. I would say that Dr. Mario and Daisy prove otherwise. I don't think there's some specific walling off of the Mario Spinoff games. I think, strictly off of Quillions definition of spinoff characters, it'll happen with either Geno, Waluigi, or both. It's just a matter of when.

 

[Tetrin]

Your argument was that Geno wasn't the main character of his series. Neither is Doc. They are both side characters.

And, if that isn't a good enough example for you...

View attachment 190247

I think his argument was that Dr. Mario was the main character of the Dr. Mario series, not the Mario games. Not calling Dr. Mario the main character of Dr. mario would be like not calling Luigi the main character of Luigi's mansion.

And to be fair, not every character added needs to be the most important character in the series, but Rosalina was pretty worthy of a spot imo. She's basically the face of the Galaxy games (apart from the literal face of the games, Starship Mario), which are among the most highly rated Mario games, and she's appeared in almost every spin off title since her conception. She's even appeared in another mainline game; Mario 3d World.

 

[Datboigeno]

Yeah, I feel they're very underrated characters. Granted, Wart might not have that much moveset potential and Tatanga might get a bit weird with his ship and all, but... where is the love for them? I love those guys, man.

Honestly, though, as much as I love Geno, I still stand by my opinion that a revival for him in the Mario series would be more meaningful than Smash. (I'm leading Operation Starfall, though, so I'm... rather biased, admittedly!)

I really thought they were going to bring Tatanga back for Galaxy and then Odyssey with all the moon stuff.....

 

[Tetrin]

Oh yeah and adding on to my response to @Zack E.

Would you really say that the Dr. Mario games, which are exponentially worse selling, warrant a character before the beloved Mario RPG series?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Personally, I've soured on Geno. He's not a main character of his franchise as a whole, he's a spinoff character, and a one-shot all rolled into one.

Is there a way to change my view?

I don’t see why those three are reasons to dislike a character. Do you?

I did want King K. Rool in for that reason, I admit. That said, Geno won't be able to add anything to the current Mario canon other than being a Waluigi/Daisy-type staple spinoff character.

No character will ever add anything to the Mario canon with Miyamoto’s hatred for any semblance of story or lore.

It's not my opinion, it's my observation. I admit that having spinoff characters in Smash would be nice (we would have Waluigi, and yes also Geno), but Smash has been resistant to having those characters for some vague reason. I can only surmise that since Smash is about celebrating Nintendo's history, there has to be some caveats to not having Mario characters be too dominant, and walling out the spinoff characters seems to be one of them.

There are many characters from spin-offs, one-offs, and unimportant characters in Smash. From Mario alone, Dr. Mario is from a spin-off, Daisy is a one-off in the mainline games, and Piranha Plant isn’t important at all.

 

[Deleted member]

I can't believe I forgot to bring this article up:

https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...lant-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros

Sakurai: "I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.


Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?"

Sakurai specifically states here that balance is important to the game, and that not all fighters are the same kind.

There is no "rule" that fighters have to be of the same kind.

Oh yeah and adding on to my response to @Zack E.

Would you really say that the Dr. Mario games, which are exponentially worse selling, warrant a character before the beloved Mario RPG series?

You made me realize how stupid of a move it was lmao.

But no. **** that.

 

[Quillion]

Your argument was that Geno wasn't the main character of his series. Neither is Doc. They are both side characters.

And, if that isn't a good enough example for you...

View attachment 190247

I sound like a broken record at this point, but at least Rosalina is a main series character. She even had her stint as a main character up until Odyssey seemingly benched her in the main series.

And my argument is that Doc is BOTH the main character of his own spinoff series AND an incarnation of the franchise's main character (which, mind, I can also give Sheik). You need to argue against both and not just one.

There are many characters from spin-offs, one-offs, and unimportant characters in Smash. From Mario alone, Dr. Mario is from a spin-off, Daisy is a one-off in the mainline games, and Piranha Plant isn’t important at all.

Yeah, but spin-off, one-off, and unimportant ALL AT ONCE? Sounds like an insurmountable barrier.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Daily reminder that Geno is highly important to his game in question. Just because he doesn't get any real character development doesn't mean he isn't highly important.

Only factor is he's from a spin-off game. So... not really anything different from Dr. Mario was. Series wasn't even story-driven. Also, as I'll repeat again, the story in Super Mario RPG has 4 main characters among the protagonists; Mario, Bowser, Mallow, Geno(in order of appearance). They all play large roles in the entire thing. It all focuses on them. Calling him unimportant is just plain wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

I sound like a broken record at this point, but at least Rosalina is a main series character. She even had her stint as a main character up until Odyssey seemingly benched her in the main series.

And my argument is that Doc is BOTH the main character of his own spinoff series AND an incarnation of the franchise's main character. You need to argue against both and not just one.



Yeah, but spin-off, one-off, and unimportant ALL AT ONCE? Sounds like an insurmountable barrier.

Well, I suggest you read the post just above yours to realize that arguing that Geno not being like the other characters is a reason he can't be in Smash is useless when the creator of the ****ing game said that it doesn't matter

 

[Ovaltine]

Well, I suggest you read the post just above yours to realize that arguing that Geno not being like the other characters is a reason he can't be in Smash is useless when the creator of the ****ing game said that it doesn't matter

Hey now, let's take it easy here. We don't need to get riled up. Honestly, I'm of the viewpoint that whoever Sakurai wants in Smash that gets approved by their third parties can, but in terms of whether a character deserves it or not is a more subjective thing. I think it's nice to have a fresh set of eyes posing arguments here without being disrespectful. Quillion's a cool guy.

 

[Quillion]

Daily reminder that Geno is highly important to his game in question. Just because he doesn't get any real character development doesn't mean he isn't highly important.

Only factor is he's from a spin-off game. So... not really anything different from Dr. Mario was. Series wasn't even story-driven. Also, as I'll repeat again, the story in Super Mario RPG has 4 main characters among the protagonists; Mario, Bowser, Mallow, Geno(in order of appearance). They all play large roles in the entire thing. It all focuses on them. Calling him unimportant is just plain wrong.

I should clarify that when I mean "unimportant", I mean "unimportant to the franchise as a whole". Say what you will about Dr. Mario, but again, he's an incarnation of the franchise's main character, and his series is still continuing. The Mario RPGs, let alone Mario as a whole, have long left behind Geno, and will ALWAYS leave him behind.

Well, I suggest you read the post just above yours to realize that arguing that Geno not being like the other characters is a reason he can't be in Smash is useless when the creator of the ****ing game said that it doesn't matter

That post only talks about how having just main heroes and main villains would be limiting to Smash, not how having main series characters only would be limiting (which I agree it is, though not without good reason).

 

[TheCJBrine]

At least Nintendo acknowledges Geno and SMRPG both in Smash and, lately, with their own stuff (even if they've only done it twice or so).

The Mario RPGs, let alone Mario as a whole, have long left behind Geno, and will ALWAYS leave him behind.

Unless Nintendo is planning something...

 

[Deleted member]

I should clarify that when I mean "unimportant", I mean "unimportant to the franchise as a whole". Say what you will about Dr. Mario, but again, he's an incarnation of the franchise's main character, and his series is still continuing. The Mario RPGs, let alone Mario as a whole, have long left behind Geno, and will ALWAYS leave him behind.



That post only talks about how having just main heroes and main villains would be limiting to Smash, not how having main series characters only would be limiting (which I agree it is, though not without good reason).

The article covers how the game has balance and doesn't play by "rules."

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yeah, but spin-off, one-off, and unimportant ALL AT ONCE? Sounds like an insurmountable barrier.

I don’t understand. It sounds like you’re arguing those three things make Geno unlikely, rather than those things making you dislike Geno. Which is it?

 

[Quillion]

I don’t understand. It sounds like you’re arguing those three things make Geno unlikely, rather than those things making you dislike Geno. Which is it?

I should clarify that I actually really like Geno. I just think he's best off staying in Super Mario RPG where his appearance was the most special, and the fact that he's unimportant to the franchise as a whole, a spinoff character, and a one-shot ALL AT THE SAME TIME should wall him out of Smash.

And I don't want Waluigi in Smash beyond being an Assist; he's also just a pure spinoff character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I should clarify that when I mean "unimportant", I mean "unimportant to the franchise as a whole". Say what you will about Dr. Mario, but again, he's an incarnation of the franchise's main character, and his series is still continuing. The Mario RPGs, let alone Mario as a whole, have long left behind Geno, and will ALWAYS leave him behind.

Daisy isn't any more important, really. Nor Waluigi. Either way, it doesn't matter, as Sakurai doesn't care about that kind of stuff.

That post only talks about how having just main heroes and main villains would be limiting to Smash, not how having main series characters only would be limiting (which I agree it is, though not without good reason).

The point is he doesn't want everyone from the same mold. He chose one of the least important characters, an enemy mook, who isn't important to the series at all. Daisy is definitely not at all. She had at most 3 mainline appearances(depending if you count Super Mario Maker or not), and she didn't become important to the series' lore either. Even Rosalina had a little more than that, and it got dropped after Galaxy 1 because Miyamoto doesn't want story in the Mario series. It's why there is no actual official canon. He doesn't think it should matter. Which should tell you how much "important to the series as a whole means". Dr. Mario isn't important to the series as a whole either as well. It's just an unimportant spin-off to have a fun set of gameplay as is. He couldn't even get into Mario Kart, and has zero mainline appearances beyond Super Mario Maker(no different from Daisy and Waluigi) and finally getting a costume in Odyssey. Besides that, he has many differences from Mario in Smash, making them feel very separate.

Besides also that, you know Metal Mario is his own character in Mario Kart too, right? At some point, it's better to accept there is no canon or elite importance. Mario isn't created as a series that way. It just doesn't matter.

 

[TheCJBrine]

actually I thought Miyamoto treated the Mario characters as actors in a play.

So...the canon is dead?!?!

 

[Quillion]

Daisy isn't any more important, really. Nor Waluigi. Either way, it doesn't matter, as Sakurai doesn't care about that kind of stuff.


The point is he doesn't want everyone from the same mold. He chose one of the least important characters, an enemy mook, who isn't important to the series at all. Daisy is definitely not at all. She had at most 3 mainline appearances(depending if you count Super Mario Maker or not), and she didn't become important to the series' lore either. Even Rosalina had a little more than that, and it got dropped after Galaxy 1 because Miyamoto doesn't want story in the Mario series. It's why there is no actual official canon. He doesn't think it should matter. Which should tell you how much "important to the series as a whole means". Dr. Mario isn't important to the series as a whole either as well. It's just an unimportant spin-off to have a fun set of gameplay as is. He couldn't even get into Mario Kart, and has zero mainline appearances beyond Super Mario Maker(no different from Daisy and Waluigi) and finally getting a costume in Odyssey. Besides that, he has many differences from Mario in Smash, making them feel very separate.

Besides also that, you know Metal Mario is his own character in Mario Kart too, right? At some point, it's better to accept there is no canon or elite importance. Mario isn't created as a series that way. It just doesn't matter.

AGAIN AGAIN, Piranha Plant is a MAIN SERIES CHARACTER. And at least Dr. Mario's series isn't being left behind in the dusts of time.

Just the fact that no spinoff characters in Smash have been playable has gone over the "three is a pattern" rule, so there's clearly something at play here.

Oh well, if we're going to continue to argue in circles about this, I will just unwatch this thread for now and agree to disagree.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh well, if we're going to continue to argue in circles about this, I will just unwatch this thread for now and agree to disagree.

That's fair, but people will quote you anyway. I'll drop it too.

That way you can be allowed to drop it. Once somebody says "agree to disagree", it's often better to not continue the argument. They want out.

actually I thought Miyamoto treated the Mario characters as actors in a play.

So...the canon is dead?!?!

lol, what canon? XD