Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Piks]

What’s the point of the info being there if nobody knew about it? Yeah, maybe dataminers would know more today, but the rest of us would know even less than we do now.

It is still possible for info to get around without it being super public.

 

[MissingGlitch]

The Nintendo direct is always next week in our hearts.

 

[Ovaltine]

Joker is the first character that I think is just totally non-Nintendo IMO.
And then we have Geno, a third-party Nintendo character....

You have committed a crime and deserve to go straight to sad internet jail, because you didn't make a Nontendo joke.

 

[Piks]

You have committed a crime and deserve to go straight to sad internet jail, because you didn't make a Nontendo joke.

That was indeed one hell of a missed opportunity, aha...

 

[GoodGrief741]

It is still possible for info to get around without it being super public.

On the internet? Unlikely. Keep in mind that this spread because a rando posted it on Twitter. It’s not like it got sent to Kotaku or IGN.

 

[Piks]

On the internet? Unlikely. Keep in mind that this spread because a rando posted it on Twitter. It’s not like it got sent to Kotaku or IGN.

Imagine if it was just on Smash Boards. I feel like that's a good medium to where Nintendo would not catch wind of it, but the info would still get around.

But I actually think that Nintendo would have removed the files with or without people noticing.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Speaking of "information that isn't really public". I don't know how we feel about the Cloud leaker from Smash 4. But did we ever figure out what the leaked picture he was talking about that Nintendo was extremely upset about? He even made it clear it wasn't Ken.

 

[PolarPanda]

So, Polar, do you still stand by nobody knowing the DLC?

Eh. It's not something I'm solid on. When I said that I was primarily referring to other employees at NoA. I mean, I wouldn't doubt characters could be leaked from other places like Enix employees hearing about a certain character being given to the smash team for use in their game, or namco employees leaking stuff. I can't speak for other sources because I only have NoA contacts.

With that said, I'm in a tough spot because I can only go by what I've heard from other people and not what I've seen for myself. I trust Xenother and I trust Verge, so I could say that I think they're telling the truth. However, I haven't heard their info from my source yet so it's not something I can say that I, myself, am certain of. But what I will say is that Xenother and Verge are both very trustworthy and not bad people. They at least aren't complete fakes like loz18, that's for sure lol.

TL;DR i think it's possible for people to know characters if they leaked thru third party companies or namco. Just don't completely trust people who claim NoA as their source.

 

[Ovaltine]

Eh. It's not something I'm solid on. When I said that I was primarily referring to other employees at NoA. I mean, I wouldn't doubt characters could be leaked from other places like Enix employees hearing about a certain character being given to the smash team for use in their game, or namco employees leaking stuff. I can't speak for other sources because I only have NoA contacts.

With that said, I'm in a tough spot because I can only go by what I've heard from other people and not what I've seen for myself. I trust Xenother and I trust Verge, so I could say that I think they're telling the truth. However, I haven't heard their info from my source yet so it's not something I can say that I, myself, am certain of. But what I will say is that Xenother and Verge are both very trustworthy and not bad people. They at least aren't complete fakes like loz18, that's for sure lol.

TL;DR i think it's possible for people to know characters if they leaked thru third party companies or namco. Just don't completely trust people who claim NoA as their source.

That's good to know. Thanks for clearing that up! That kinda makes the play-testing Steve stuff even more unreal because NoA would certainly have known about that, especially back in August. Erdrick is still noteworthy, and heck, even Steve might be, but that play-testing information just smells bogus now.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The best guess for the next Direct will be somewhere around early February. Whatever we're thinking, the date won't be that close, presumably.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up being on the 11th, seeing as someone on this board has an appointment that day.

No offense to Dragon Quest and Minecraft fans. But Reggie tried to make it clear that Joker reflects the rest of the DLC. Unexpected and out of nowhere. Dragon Quest and Minecraft wouldn't really fit that criteria on sales numbers alone. As people fully expect those two series to be represented in Smash at some point.

It'll probably be people whose threads have comparatively puny numbers of posts (like Joker's used to) or straight-up have no threads (like PP) before the reveals happen.

Joker is the first character that I think is just totally non-Nintendo IMO.
And then we have Geno, a third-party Nintendo character....

Almost. Persona Q2 came a week before Ultimate.

So close, yet, so far. There would need to be a character that isn't guaranteed to have a Nintendo-related appearance of some sort for that kind of distinction.

Eh. It's not something I'm solid on. When I said that I was primarily referring to other employees at NoA. I mean, I wouldn't doubt characters could be leaked from other places like Enix employees hearing about a certain character being given to the smash team for use in their game, or namco employees leaking stuff. I can't speak for other sources because I only have NoA contacts.

With that said, I'm in a tough spot because I can only go by what I've heard from other people and not what I've seen for myself. I trust Xenother and I trust Verge, so I could say that I think they're telling the truth. However, I haven't heard their info from my source yet so it's not something I can say that I, myself, am certain of. But what I will say is that Xenother and Verge are both very trustworthy and not bad people. They at least aren't complete fakes like loz18, that's for sure lol.

TL;DR i think it's possible for people to know characters if they leaked thru third party companies or namco. Just don't completely trust people who claim NoA as their source.

It's just too bad fakes like Hitagi are harder to spot, seeing how close they were to Verge. Also, did anyone ever figure out Hitagi's gender? It's tough to refer to them properly.

That's good to know. Thanks for clearing that up! That kinda makes the play-testing Steve stuff even more unreal because NoA would certainly have known about that, especially back in August. Erdrick is still noteworthy, and heck, even Steve might be, but that play-testing information just smells bogus now.

One thing for sure is, every single thing that might involve a Steve reveal has been a case of crying wolf so far. Minecon 2018? Nothing much besides folks there seemingly not knowing about a smash appearance. X018? A lot of nothing except cats and pandas. The 5Chan leak will likely be one of those, too.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You seriously cannot tell me you expected Dragon Quest or Minecraft would be in Smash before an insider mentioned them.

I for one had thought about BOTH of them. They are TWO of the biggest juggernauts in gaming. Both invented or perfected a type of gaming that is mmicked by everyone else in their genre.

They are VERY expected third party franchises for Smash Bros.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Imagine if it was just on Smash Boards. I feel like that's a good medium to where Nintendo would not catch wind of it, but the info would still get around.

But I actually think that Nintendo would have removed the files with or without people noticing.

But it would be impossible for it to stay just on Smashboards. It would at least spread to other hardcore sites like GameFAQs, Reddit, 4chan, and from there who knows.

The Brave datamine, the Steve-Doomguy-Ryu rumor, and Ryce’s MvCI character list all made it to mainstream gaming news outlets, so what I’ve learned is that when stuff like this gains enough traction, it just keeps going, it doesn’t stop.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

But it would be impossible for it to stay just on Smashboards. It would at least spread to other hardcore sites like GameFAQs, Reddit, 4chan, and from there who knows.

The Brave datamine, the Steve-Doomguy-Ryu rumor, and Ryce’s MvCI character list all made it to mainstream gaming news outlets, so what I’ve learned is that when stuff like this gains enough traction, it just keeps going, it doesn’t stop.

And then when any stuff is proven fake, the news outlets look like dunces and sidestep the issue to avoid admitting they goofed.

Which is probably what is going to happen, yet again.

But yeah, it's hard to keep a secret when there's plenty of people that just can't resist telling someone out there.

 

[Teeb147]

But it would be impossible for it to stay just on Smashboards. It would at least spread to other hardcore sites like GameFAQs, Reddit, 4chan, and from there who knows.

The Brave datamine, the Steve-Doomguy-Ryu rumor, and Ryce’s MvCI character list all made it to mainstream gaming news outlets, so what I’ve learned is that when stuff like this gains enough traction, it just keeps going, it doesn’t stop.

And then when any stuff is proven fake, the news outlets look like dunces and sidestep the issue to avoid admitting they goofed.

Which is probably what is going to happen, yet again.

But yeah, it's hard to keep a secret when there's plenty of people that just can't resist telling someone out there.

I think it did happen because the 5-character leak was made 'after' the original one with joker and erdrick. It caught more attention for some reason but it makes more sense that it's a fake that based itself on that one and other info. And there's more I could say on how it's sketchy.
I might make a longer post about it sometime, not sure where :O

 

[FLGibsonIII]

But it would be impossible for it to stay just on Smashboards. It would at least spread to other hardcore sites like GameFAQs, Reddit, 4chan, and from there who knows.

The Brave datamine, the Steve-Doomguy-Ryu rumor, and Ryce’s MvCI character list all made it to mainstream gaming news outlets, so what I’ve learned is that when stuff like this gains enough traction, it just keeps going, it doesn’t stop.

Yeah, I think it is pretty apparent leak articles get lots of clicks. So I wouldn't be surprised if gaming news outlets are constantly looking on these sites for "leaks" that gain traction.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Honestly; after it turns out that people were sitting on "Jack" and "Brave" for like a month, I can't help but feel sometimes that leakers are hiding other things too.

Hard to say because I don't know where the extreme confidence for Steve and Erdrick comes from aside from hearsay. Reputable people are saying these things but the evidence that's been presented is ambiguous unless people are deliberately withholding things. For example, one of the play testers that leaked Piranha Plant and Inceniroar's movesets 2 months in advance called out Vergeben on the Minecraft content but, even in insider circles, he basically just said "this is what my source told me" and didn't elaborate. It was a perfect example of put out or shut up and Vergeben didn't deliver.

 

[Deleted member]

Hard to say because I don't know where the extreme confidence for Steve and Erdrick comes from aside from hearsay. Reputable people are saying these things but the evidence that's been presented is ambiguous unless people are deliberately withholding things. For example, one of the play testers that leaked Piranha Plant and Inceniroar's movesets 2 months in advance called out Vergeben on the Minecraft content but, even in insider circles, he basically just said "this is what my source told me" and didn't elaborate. It was a perfect example of put out or shut up and Vergeben didn't deliver.

Popeye is DLC.

This is what my source told me.

 

[Looma]

It'll probably be people whose threads have comparatively puny numbers of posts (like Joker's used to) or straight-up have no threads (like PP) before the reveals happen.

I'm actually really hopeful for this. Shake things up around here and breathe new life into "lesser" threads. I'm sick of fixating on Square Enix!

 

[MattX20]

Eh. It's not something I'm solid on. When I said that I was primarily referring to other employees at NoA. I mean, I wouldn't doubt characters could be leaked from other places like Enix employees hearing about a certain character being given to the smash team for use in their game, or namco employees leaking stuff. I can't speak for other sources because I only have NoA contacts.

With that said, I'm in a tough spot because I can only go by what I've heard from other people and not what I've seen for myself. I trust Xenother and I trust Verge, so I could say that I think they're telling the truth. However, I haven't heard their info from my source yet so it's not something I can say that I, myself, am certain of. But what I will say is that Xenother and Verge are both very trustworthy and not bad people. They at least aren't complete fakes like loz18, that's for sure lol.

TL;DR i think it's possible for people to know characters if they leaked thru third party companies or namco. Just don't completely trust people who claim NoA as their source.

Honestly, I believe you. Thanks for the update, Polar.

 

[Datboigeno]

Hard to say because I don't know where the extreme confidence for Steve and Erdrick comes from aside from hearsay. Reputable people are saying these things but the evidence that's been presented is ambiguous unless people are deliberately withholding things. For example, one of the play testers that leaked Piranha Plant and Inceniroar's movesets 2 months in advance called out Vergeben on the Minecraft content but, even in insider circles, he basically just said "this is what my source told me" and didn't elaborate. It was a perfect example of put out or shut up and Vergeben didn't deliver.

For me this is the sticking point in terms of believing any leakers 100%. I read explanations like xenother ’s and while it sounds plausible it feels hyperbolic to go from that to “Erdrick and Steve are in” as a certainty. Like, I get having a source that you feel very trusting of, but if nothing has actually been seen of “Brave” at this point and the stuff around Steve seems sketchy at best I think it’s a little weird to say something checks out 100% especially during this speculation period where we know SE is feeding fake leaks.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Hard to say because I don't know where the extreme confidence for Steve and Erdrick comes from aside from hearsay. Reputable people are saying these things but the evidence that's been presented is ambiguous unless people are deliberately withholding things. For example, one of the play testers that leaked Piranha Plant and Inceniroar's movesets 2 months in advance called out Vergeben on the Minecraft content but, even in insider circles, he basically just said "this is what my source told me" and didn't elaborate. It was a perfect example of put out or shut up and Vergeben didn't deliver.

Part of it, in regards to Steve, is the fear that Banjo fans will get snubbed by the Microsoft higher-ups going in favor of a hip, relevant series to include a character of.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

I wonder if Steve would be more popular of a choice if it were still an indie game and it wasn't sold to Microsoft.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I wonder if Steve would be more popular of a choice if it were still an indie game and it wasn't sold to Microsoft.

Probably. I've shared stories on here that Minecraft was huge with college aged people until Microsoft got it and hardcore marketed it to kids. They didn't pull a Nintendo and show it was for everyone, no, they Blue Clues the franchise into the ground. The franchise now has a notorious kiddy reputation because of Microsoft's marketing. For the people who remember the early days, it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[Dan]

Anyone else playing KH3 and get to Toybox? Notice that puppet/doll Heartless resembling Geno, and Sora obliterates him? I hope that isn't emblematic.

 

[Opossum]

I for one had thought about BOTH of them. They are TWO of the biggest juggernauts in gaming. Both invented or perfected a type of gaming that is mmicked by everyone else in their genre.

They are VERY expected third party franchises for Smash Bros.

Dragon Quest especially. People were talking about Slime back when I first joined this site in 2011, and personally I thought Steve was a solid pick as soon as Minecraft hit the Wii U.

 

[Dan]

It's uncanny fellas

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's uncanny fellas

In a weird way, it's like mix of Mario, Mallow, and Geno.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I wonder if Steve would be more popular of a choice if it were still an indie game and it wasn't sold to Microsoft.

Probably. One one side you have the guy in competition with Shovel Knight and Shantae, and with the guys that are against indies against him.

But on the other are Banjo fans and ooh boy you do not want to get in over Banjo.

 

[MissingGlitch]

It's uncanny fellas

This is why he is a spirit in WoL

Oh and if it really is Steve. Poor Phil. He will never live this tweet down.

Yep.

— Phil Spencer (@XboxP3) March 20, 2018

 

[Opossum]

It's uncanny fellas

I'll be honest, that's a massive stretch. If anything it reminds me more of Puppetmon.

 

[TheCJBrine]

It's kinda a shame Microsoft doesn't push Minecraft as a game for everyone, even though it is.

Mojang still treats it as a game for everyone, but how people act at Minecon and other stuffs makes it obvious Microsoft expects them to be talking to 5 year-olds even if the crowd has a bunch of teens/young adults...

 

[Deleted member]

Probably. I've shared stories on here that Minecraft was huge with college aged people until Microsoft got it and hardcore marketed it to kids. They didn't pull a Nintendo and show it was for everyone, no, they Blue Clues the franchise into the ground. The franchise now has a notorious kiddy reputation because of Microsoft's marketing. For the people who remember the early days, it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

I was in the early days of mc and I think I was 11 when I started playing it. everything was perfect

Until the ******* kids ruined everything with their childish behaviors parodies fan animations and worse of all that telltale series it’s getting anoying!!!!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This is why he is a spirit in WoL

Oh and if it really is Steve. Poor Phil. He will never live this tweet down.

Yep.

— Phil Spencer (@XboxP3) March 20, 2018

Only one thing to do.

It's kinda a shame Microsoft doesn't push Minecraft as a game for everyone, even though it is.

Mojang still treats it as a game for everyone, but how people act at Minecon and other stuffs makes it obvious Microsoft expects them to be talking to 5 year-olds even if the crowd has a bunch of teens/young adults...

Microsoft and kiddie franchises are like oil and water, especially when you consider that Super Lucky's Tale is no longer an exclusive for them. And the dang thing somehow had its Cats & Pandas update be shown off at X018, when that event was clearly aimed at said teens/young adults. Seriously, it's a wonder they even allowed a new Battletoads to happen after all these years.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Phoenix Wright would fit that bill. After seeing Joker get in, I think Wright's chances skyrocketed and I believe he has a amazing shot to get in.

Man, if ever he were due for a shot, this game is it. Not that there won't be other Smash games, but man, the absence of his series in any shape or form has been increasingly odd, given how dedicated to Nintendo it's been.

OHH I REMEMBERED I’M HYPED AF FOR THE TRILOGY PHEONIX WRIGHT LETS GOOO


perdon, nunca más

And speaking of which, a Smash entry would certainly be good promotion for his series and what he's got coming out this year.

I'll admit, leakers not mentioning Phoenix, has felt more like a blessing than a curse with DLC so far.

. Several play testers have said that Minecraft content was not in the play test build and one even called out Vergeben on it.

Well dang. Speaking of Phoenix Wright, that's a critical contradiction right there.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

The reason we sat on it was so it wouldn't be removed from the game. Word got out, Nintendo found out we knew and pulled it.

We still found out at the end of the day didn't we? Who care's if Nintendo knew; they were the ones who made the mistake of putting that code in the game. It's not like we would have gotten a repeat of the Ryu situation. That's not a mistake that's made twice; even if Nintendo is incompetent sometimes.

I'll be honest; sometimes the leaker community seems like a bit of a boy's club. Like "Only we shall know this information, and we'll decide when you lowly Smash plebs get to know about a thing that isn't endangering a source"

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

yeah tbh if we pretend leakers don't exist for a hot second steve would actually be hella surprising

Okay. Still, we should also consider that Nintendo were well aware of the common leaking talk by the time that Reggie made that statement. Then, this speculation game intensifies, especially considering how bamboozled the leaking scene got when Joker showed up.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Man, if ever he were due for a shot, this game is it. Not that there won't be other Smash games, but man, the absence of his series in any shape or form has been increasingly odd, given how dedicated to Nintendo it's been.
And speaking of which, a Smash entry would certainly be good promotion for his series and what he's got coming out this year.

I'll admit, leakers not mentioning Phoenix, has felt more like a blessing than a curse with DLC so far.

Will dang. Speaking of Phoenix Wright, that's a critical contradiction right there.

Regardless of what happens, I'll try to see if I can buy all the Ace Attorney games possible on the 3DS e-shop.

Also, quoting this post from the Isaac thread, because it's so good and this can be applied to many IPs and characters:

A thought on 12 million copies of Smash Ultimate sold in less than a month... that's good for ongoing DLC. Splatoon/Splatoon 2 did not those numbers and got extended support. The new president said they were about DLC. It'd be madness not to expect a second season of DLC characters.

Rumors are most of the 1st run DLC being third parties and I am nonplussed in the American definition. But those decisions have already been made.

If we are to influence the wave 2 or future DLC prospects, possibly for representation of unrepresented or underserved Nintendo franchises, this time period is the exact period where it would hit the heaviest and matter the most. Don't express your desire a year from now when they announce those characters have already been picked. They'd make those decisions this year.

 

[MissingGlitch]

The final reveal is going to be Phoenix Wright. The trailer is going to have Phoenix try to figure out who Joker stole the invitation from. Leading into wave 2 with a reveal that Joker stole Geno's invitation.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If Phoenix makes it in, that scene in Super Mario Sunshine with saying "Objection!" will have been on point in a way that no one ever suspected.

 

[ForsakenM]

Woof, I've been gone for a hot minute, so welcome to the wall of quotes and replies. Sorry in advance

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Okay. So this is what bugs me when people start to say "Vergeben said this" or "that." Vergeben out of us all knows that information coming from sources that are not personally trusted should not be taken as his claim. This means that if even he is not 100% sold on something, then we shouldn't be praising it around like the gospel. He literally acknowledges this. "A totally brand new person claiming to having this info got into contact with me recently, so I'm taking this with as much of a grain of salt as you." He's not claiming anything. He's just saying what is told by him from some anonymous source. From the looks of what came afterward, he probably stopped relying on it and got actually good sources.

However, he has said with 100% certainty (and made fun of those who doubted him) that Isabelle, Incineroar, Simon, and whoever else he stated was certainly coming to the game. Contrast your citation to this post and you can see how he tries to word himself carefully on who he thinks is coming. The post you linked, Ovaltine, only has him quoting a source from a person he didn't even define as trustworthy. I can't really say that made him wrong. That's like saying Papagenos was wrong about Banjo-Kazooie even though he warned that this supposed Microsoft source was unreliable. No. He only relayed us information and didn't claim anything. The source itself was the problem, and both Vergeben and Papagenos knew this from these specific examples. If Vergeben has no info, he'll just say what other leakers or insiders are saying for speculation. That doesn't mean he's saying that their word is right.

That being said, the only concrete slip-ups I really found from Vergeben's Smash Ultimate run was in fact when we'd get newcomers and content. He seems to not have a read on when something will get announced, like how the SE rep is supposedly pushed back to DLC. I have strong conviction that if Vergeben says a newcomer is in, it's in. Don't care when, don't care how; he clearly cannot guess that. However, he can guess that someone is coming, and that's enough for me. Look at the pattern that actually matters and I hope you see where I'm coming from.

Or not. Speculation is healthy when it comes to this. I'm just pitching why Vergeben shouldn't be immediately swept under other less reliable leakers. If he makes a confident character claim and it ends up being wrong, that will be his true fall from grace he'll never recover from.

Things are being handled differently, but that's because Vergeben tried anticipating when someone would be revealed. If we leave Joker out of the equation, Vergeben's track record still holds true. I still think we should expect at least one SE newcomer. Can't really prove whether he's right from here but he hasn't been wrong on the one thing he's actually good on, and that's guessing who is in. Not when, not how. Just who.

We'll agree to disagree if this doesn't change anything.

Honestly, Verg's only wrong information about Smash Ultimate's base game is Minecraft. But the fact we know leakbait comes out doesn't make that surprising. Besides that, it should be kept in mind that a lot of stuff doesn't make it into the base despite being talked about. The leakers may have legitimately heard that, but it never came to fruition. It does mean his record for Ultimate's base isn't perfect. He should not be ignored, but taking him with a grain of salt is the better approach.

That said, his DLC information has no current credibility. He might actually be right that they changed their plans of who to reveal first. How long ago did he hear about the SE reveal? Wasn't it a rather long time ago? Was it a few weeks before? Besides that, there's no way Verg himself is lying. However, it wouldn't surprise me if some people were intentionally giving him bad information(I am not referring to the leakbait). Let's be honest, his attitude can be super poor sometimes. He isn't liked by a lot of people. It's not hard to believe he got trolled. Which would be sad if true, since even after he's tried to seriously be better about the information he releases, people still have nothing better to do than treat him like trash. Not that his responses help either, but I am not surprised he's super frustrated when people refuse to treat him like a human being. Can't honestly blame him for treating them just like how he's treated. Maybe people should actually be respect to one another(and the funny thing is, everything that Verg said that was bad was only because somebody else said something bad to him first. He still deserves some blame, but they are clearly at fault for their behavior and should not have harassed him as is).

Yeah, as far back as I can remember, his only things that were incorrect is base game MineCraft and base game Square rep, which he then shortly changed to base game MineCraft and possibly DLC Square rep. When there was no MC in the base game (and after he kinda made himself look like a fool with the whole Ender Dragon/Rathalos flub-up), he stuck with a Square rep as DLC and THEN claimed they would be the first reveal...and we ALL know how THAT turned out for him. Since then he has doubled-down on it being a Square rep, and going from 'It's one of seven, but definitely not one of the seven and another is probably leakbait' to 'Erdrick! Erdrick! Erdrick!' within relatively short periods of time.

Now, while it is ENTIRELY possible that he has solid information and has been unable to share it for whatever reason, when you add up what others have said about Verge burning the bridges with his sources and piggybacking of other leakers, how information that he has given could have easily been good guess work when not also piggybacking off of other leakers, the fact that he often mixes speculation with information that makes it unsure which is which. and how he seems to have a pattern now...it all adds up to discredit him.

That pattern is the fact that he's apparently good with base games but has really nothing when it comes to DLC, by the by. Don't misunderstand, I comprehend that Verge being wrong about one game doesn't mean he's automatically wrong with Smash, but when you compare his history of knowing base games and what is in them versus what comes after the base game, his track record for one heavily outweighs the other. Just recently with Dragon Ball FighterZ, he had called knowing the DLC for the Season 2 pass with it being more characters than the previous pass and saying Videl w/Great Saiyaman would be in alongside Gogeta, Zarbon, Roshi and Raditz...then two weeks before the reveal, he says that he's tossing away the info he got that these characters would be in and saying Jiren would be in said Ultra Instinct Goku and SSJ4 Goku would be in but still believed it would be more than 8 characters.

What happened? The Season 2 Pass is only 6 characters, Jiren IS one (but, umm, no duh?) and Videl w/Great Saiyaman is one with DBS Movie Broly and SSGSS Gogeta coming later. I realize that I jumbled some of his info together, so to clarify: He made claims with all these characters, then two weeks prior to the reveal he changes his tune partially, then the reveal makes it so that part of what he said before was right and part of what he said now is right, but most of both of it is wrong and Jiren is and easy guess that a toddler could have made plus all the talk around needing more 'female representation' in the game made Videl and easy pick.

A source who has given me correct info on multiple occasions about Smash Ultimate and other games (although I rarely ask for non-Smash info) told me that Erdrick would be joining the roster. I was the first (at least among the circles I'm in) that was able to say with certainty that Erdrick would be getting in. After I received this info, multiple other people (who I trust to have correct information) also began to receive the same info that the Square Enix rep would be Erdrick. Then the datamined info was the cherry on top.

With Steve, I and others have heard from multiple people (including my main source) that Steve would also be joining the roster. It is almost common knowledge at this point that Nintendo had conversations with Microsoft about bringing a Microsoft owned character to Smash, and it is to my knowledge that Nintendo came in wanting a big, recognizable character (which ended up being Steve). As if this wasn't enough, I have also been told by multiple sources that Steve was in a testers build of the game back in August. I was told that he was far from being in playable state. I, like many of you wonder why Steve was left out of the base game/revealed after Joker if he was being worked on so early. The reasoning in the Doom/Ninja Gaiden leak could be a possible explanation, but I am not able to vouch for that leak with any confidence and am trying to verify or find conflicts with that 'leak'.

Briefly that's what I can share with you as to why I'm confident of these two characters. I hope to have some new info for you soon.

I say the evidence for Steve really isn't concrete.

1. We know Nintendo and Microsoft met this past summer but we don't know for what. If it was actually for a game, I seriously doubt Phil Spencer would have publically shared it like he did.

2. On this note, people were play testing the game as early as August meaning that would be way too early if the decision was made after E3.

3. Several play testers have said that Minecraft content was not in the play test build and one even called out Vergeben on it.

This isn't to say Minecraft won't happen but there's definitely conflicting information out there.

Honestly, after ruminating (and Fatman already clarifying things I was about to say, too), the Steve claim is more than likely a falsehood. Let me go into detail why:

1) Noatesty. You know Noatesty? Yeah, that guy who leaked PP before anyone else did, before that watermarked video started spreading among insiders... because they were a play tester. Their claims on what was in the play test builds they played were as follows: Ken, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant, the last of them cited as a 'DLC character pretty much finished'. Nowhere is there any mention of Steve or any sort of Minecraft content.

2) The Ken leak. We all know by now that the Ken image leak from way back when is as real as it gets. The play tester screenshotted that, presumably sometime during or after August (as that's about when the picture started floating around). In that play-test build, we had at least Ken and Incineroar... and 'supposedly' Steve. Why would they leak Ken when everyone and their mother already predicted he'd be in? Likely because it was all that they had of substance apart from Incineroar. You'd think a leaker like this would leak out something as monumental as Steve being in test builds, but they leaked Ken. This one isn't as concrete as the Noatesty claim, but it is something to keep in mind.

3) Polar's source, whose track record is impeccable, claims that no one knows the DLC. Now, if Steve was present in those early play-test builds, wouldn't everyone know that he's DLC? It lends more credence to the idea that Steve is a popular water cooler rumor rather than anything solid.

4) According to Fatman, a person I highly trust with connections to insiders (including our own Polar), several play testers have called Verge out on the Steve claim, stating that he was nowhere to be found in their test builds.

Basically, everything points against this. As a result, the rest of the Steve and Erdrick claims from Xenother's source(s) are ones to be taken with not a grain of salt, but with a massive wheelbarrow of salt. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Xenother. That being said, I think they should be more careful about what they claim with certainty when there are a lot of holes in what they present.

Woof! It's reasons like these that we don't take what you say seriously, xenother. No offense to you, but the situation you present is wacky and dishonest as hell, and while Nintendo is wacky they rarely make moves that would upset their integrity.

I don't think Polar's source has said anything of the sort. I'm pretty sure Polar's assuming this is likely because of their rapport with other insiders and what their sources have been saying. They aren't all in, at any rate.

It sounds like this post was made entirely because of the hindsight affect and some personal bias. Just because you wont feel Erdrick and Minecraft are Joker level hype does not mean other people will. In fact, Minecraft will definitely blow the world's mind because it's Minecraft we're talking about. It is the biggest indie game to ever touch the scene. Plus the boards have shown that there are a bunch of dedicated DQ fans and people who recently tried out the series and enjoyed it. You're underestimating how meaningful Erdrick is, and I'm ignoring Japan when I say this. Furthermore, this entire Smashboard thread is a very niche handful of the Smash fanbase who know all of this insider baloney. Our grasp of the shock value is nowhere near the ignorance of someone who just does not keep up with this stuff, which is the majority of the fanbase.

The hindsight argument makes no sense. You can still be flabberghasted at how a newcomer is real an acknowledge it makes some degree of sense. Otherwise, literally no newcomer would be hype. Persona 5 is the biggest RPG in 2017 and the Persona and SMT series has been alive and kicking for decades. Plus since, Nintendo had the connections, why not? It's recognizable, enjoyable, but it's not entirely known and enjoyed by everyone. Sounds familiar right? Probably because DQ kind of fits that bill but in a way more revolutionary way. It doesn't mean everyone will like it though. Some people don't have to be Street Fighter fans to appreciate Ryu. Hell, some people just didn't buy Ryu according to what people have recently said. It's DLC. Saying some people wont buy it is natural because some people will not. I don't think any game has universal appeal to where everyone and their grandma is going to buy it. Otherwise, we wouldn't have different game companies and consoles.

Mmm...gonna have to disagree with you on this one, bruh.

Steve or Erdrick will not have the impact you think it will, and I'll start with Erdrick because I'm more familiar with this argument.

You say you are ignoring Japan when you make this statement but you couldn't possibly be. Out of the 300 mil+ people who live in the US, over 150 mil play video games and this number will continue to grow heavily. Out of all those US gamers, supposedly only about 1-2 million got Dragon Quest XI, and obviously this is just a flat rough estimate that doesn't contain those who didn't like it and etc. Smash EASILY has more players overall than Dragon Quest in the States (it sold 3 mil in 11 days, more than DQXI got overall), meaning that MOST modern Smash fans wouldn't know about DQ. Of course this doesn't count older Smash fans and older DQ fans, but since DQXI is the best selling in the West from the series thus far, I think it stands to reason that most of the Smash fanbase doesn't know/doesn't care about DQ, much less about Erdrick.

The 'literal who' joke is old and I hate it, but it applies here: the best choice would be to pick the main character from DQXI (Luminary, I believe?) or Slime, but all the big-wig leakers say it's Erdrick which is the worst choice for sales in the West. Most Smash players would not know who he is or what he is from until it was explained to them and then the response would be rather neutral or even negative due to the lack of it being a requested character on a massive scale. Sure, people would still buy him, but the amount of people who say that they wouldn't buy him is already rather sizable and growing, and if the public sees him as another shill pick like Corrin it really will not go over well.

As for Steve I recognize MineCraft for the giant that it is, but Steve himself isn't really that giant I don't think. I get that he could work like Villager and have alternates to express the creativity of the game but Steve himself isn't the appeal of MineCraft: it's what you can do in MineCraft and the community that has appeal, not the characters. That said, with the demographic of MC being more and more kids at MicroSoft's demand, MC itself has started to lose it's older fanbase by either having them grow up or feel like the game isn't their thing anymore. Smash Ultimate's demographic is not kids, it's people who grew up with Nintendo (which in the case of the NES, that means roughly 34-40 for the maximum age) and people who are likely to have a Switch, which means mid-late twenties to mid-late thirties. If you take all the Smash fans from this age group and were to compare those who like MC and want Steve vs those who dislike it and don't want Steve, outliers included, I'm confident you would find that the divide would be more one-sided than you give it credit.

fighter_kind_mystical ninja

Imagine wanting a regular guy with military training with regular weapons and gear and a wacky gruff voice.

This post is brought to you by Ganbare Gang.

I did a thing.

dank memes. forgive me.

Unlike most of the thread, I absolutely love this. It gets me laughing about this whole mostly sad situation our blue puppet boi is in.