Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Dynamic Worlok]

This is the list of seven characters Vergeben was told. He heard Sephiroth, Crono, and DQ the most, was told not to take Geno too seriously, and was told Sora was not in. For the 3 Square Enix characters from the person connected to SE (I think) with the Linkedin profile, he mentioned 3 Square Enix characters. One was rejected, that was Sora, one was up for serious negotiations, which was Geno, and one was for just in case negotiations didn't get through with Geno, and that was Sephiroth. This isn't 100% confirmed, but this is what was said

the geno and sephiroth thing was sent to PolarPanda 's source by someone of dubious credibility.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Oh no, I just love to logically dissect stuff and, honestly, I'm kind of glad I did.

*cue spotlight on center stage and soft accompanying piano music *

Guys, I've come to realize that, no matter who we get, it would have been a hard fought battle.

Geno- the Smash underdog. A 22 year dream come true.

Dragon Quest- finally overcame its liscensing Hell after 32 years.

Sephiroth- honored to be the first unique secondary third party character in Smash.

Crono- Legitimized in what's essentially the Video Game Hall of Fame despite the franchise not having a new game in 19 years.

This all being said, it will be a really big day for whoever is chosen and their fans so try to accept whatever outcome with grace and dignity....





















But, you know, whatever, it's totally going to be Geno.

And that's a fact.

right?

 

[Datboigeno]

The idea of Nintendo turning down a big fish like Sephiroth, at the risk of spurning SE after all this talk about SSE being incredibly difficult to work with?

I mean, that would be insanely dumb. If anything that would hurt Geno's chances even more if Nintendo aren't willing to play some ball here.

I mean, this is also assuming that Nintendo, the guys who didn't even bother to bring Geno back for the Super Star Saga remake would be this dogged for him that they'd pull such a stunt. This ain't it chief.

To be fair, it's a combination of things.

First off, the fact that he's placed at all, does show there's already seeds in the Smash fanbase for him. That goes coupled with the wide appeal he has as a character in general, and nothing sells a crossover fighter more than the characters. Now factor in the fact that his game is presently going to be available on the same console as said fighter, that's another plus. The fact that people have bought certain games just for him or Cloud speaks to the testament of his influence. And bonus points if it nets Nintendo a port of the FFVII remake.

In the long run, polls are great, but sometimes one who's a big want by the core Smash fanbase may not sell as well as a big fish guest star who reaches a wide audience within both the fanbase and outside.

And I reiterate, we don't even know the official numbers of the actual ballot. So who knows what happened in there? For all we know, more casuals may have come to vote for that one and Sephiroth might've pulled ahead for all we know.

The issue I have with this line of logic is that it makes big assumptions about hypothetical huge group people who would be hyped for Sephiroth or Sora or whoever that would go out and buy that DLC over Geno that for whatever reason didn’t vote in polls. A hypothetical silent majority. The big problem is that this is built on the assumption that fans would actually have a preference for Seph in Smash just because he’s more popular. As Fatmanonice laid out yesterday the views each third party reveal got (which is an objective way of judging interest) lines up perfectly with how demanded a character is versus how mainstream popular or well known they are. Bayonnetta of all characters got millions of more views on her reveal than Pac-Man. The same can be said for the dozens of polls out there. The only SE character that comes close to Geno or surpasses him at times is Sora. That is very consistent. At a certain point it’s a weak argument to say “Oh what about all these hypothetical other fans that just want the more popular character that don’t do any sort of polls or watch reveal trailers”. Because you have no actual data for that. You’re just guessing. And while we don’t have official Sm4sh ballot data we do have the polls that can give us a pretty good estimate of what characters in general are on there and Seph doesn’t come close to Geno. Like, ever.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Hype responsibly tomorrow guys, something tells me I might have to miss it.

My doctor found something on an ekg scan that he felt was important enough to send me to a heart specialist for...

Only 30 and already possible heart problems... life’s a ***** sometimes.

Dear god. I hope you'll be alright.

 

[Deleted member]

So then which one do we believe? The list of seven or the LinkedIn one?

The list of seven characters was just what Vergeben heard, it's just info. It isn't really a case of believing or not, these are just the names that were told to him.

The Linkedin is just info too, it's not 100% confirmed to be true, but it's what was said.

 

[Nekoo]

The list of seven characters was just what Vergeben heard, it's just info. It isn't really a case of believing or not, these are just the names that were told to him.

I'm pretty sure the list of Seven characters doesn't comes ONLY from Vergeben but I might be extremely wrong here.

 

[Datboigeno]

Hype responsibly tomorrow guys, something tells me I might have to miss it.

My doctor found something on an ekg scan that he felt was important enough to send me to a heart specialist for...

Only 30 and already possible heart problems... life’s a ***** sometimes.

Not to give you false reassurance but a few years ago I was called in to do an echocardiogram because my doctor heard a suspicious murmur and after being in a waiting room for like two hours I was seen by a cardiologist who said after the scan “You’re perfectly fine. There’s nothing wrong with your heart. I don’t know why you’re here”. A similar thing happened to my girlfriend. Better to get it checked out though than not just in case.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty sure the list of Seven characters doesn't comes ONLY from Vergeben but I might be extremely wrong here.

Maybe, but I just meant that these are the names Verge heard, and it makes up the list of seven

 

[Kuon]

The list of seven characters was just what Vergeben heard, it's just info. It isn't really a case of believing or not, these are just the names that were told to him.

The Linkedin is just info too, it's not 100% confirmed to be true, but it's what was said.

But this info and the names that he's heard is how he figures out what characters are in and what characters are not, right?

 

[Deleted member]

But this info and the names that he's heard is how he figures out what characters are in and what characters are not, right?

Again, this is one of the reasons he has only mentioned that Square Enix would be getting a rep. The characters are what he was told. He has not publicly made conclusions about the list. He knows that Square Enix uses leak bait, so all he mentions is that they will be getting a new rep

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

The issue I have with this line of logic is that it makes big assumptions about hypothetical huge group people who would be hyped for Sephiroth or Sora or whoever that would go out and buy that DLC over Geno that for whatever reason didn’t vote in polls. A hypothetical silent majority. The big problem is that this is built on the assumption that fans would actually have a preference for Seph in Smash just because he’s more popular. As Fatmanonice laid out yesterday the views each third party reveal got (which is an objective way of judging interest) it lines up perfectly with how demanded a character is versus how mainstream popular or well known they are. Bayonnetta of all characters got millions of more views on her reveal than Pac-Man. The same can be said for the dozens of polls out there. The only SE character that comes close to Geno or surpasses him at times is Sora. That is very consistent. At a certain point it’s a weak argument to say “Oh what about all these other hypothetical other fans that just want the more popular character that don’t do any sort of polls or watch reveal trailers”. Because you have no actual data for that. You’re just guessing. And while we don’t have official Sm4sh ballot data we do have the polls that can give us a pretty good estimate of what characters in general are on there and Seph doesn’t come close to Geno. Like, ever.

Well on the other hand, it goes both ways with assuming that the Geno crowd will produce more sales than say, the FFVII crowd.

And yeah, votes be there an good indicator, but do we know that the big companies see that always as a gurantee of that character actually selling well and longer?

Not to mention, this doesn't take into account all the other possible factors of the vote. As I've said before, in addition to the support there has actually been for the characters, sometimes people have been more quiet about it because it seemed like more of a pipe dream up until this point.

And really, would people expect the villain to come in before the hero of the game when it comes to the official ballot? Furthermore, think about it. With how stingy Square has been revealed to be lately, it's only becuase of leaks that we, the inner circle are even fathoming another Square rep. that as well, could affect how much people talk about other Square reps compared to say, Geno, who's been asked for at quite the volume for years and Sora who's more a Disney rep.

And we come back to the main point that in terms of things currently around, Sephiroth has more stuff keeping him in the vogue. Not dissing Geno, but not as much people in the big picture talk about him. And say they're trying to attract new players outside the core for longevity and you can see why people would argue Sephiroth's favor and case.

Not to mention, unlike more hard core fighters, Smash tends to maintain even its casual audiences more consistently along with the competitive side. bit of food for thought.

Fatmanonice how's the Geno megapost coming along, my dude? I was just curious if it was gonna drop before the VGA's possibly crush our dreams into a million pieces.

That's a neat Squidward reference given your avatar there.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I feel like Fatmanonice actually DOES know who's in and is trying to either hype us up; or gently opening us up to the idea that Geno didn't make it in.

 

[Kuon]

Again, this is one of the reasons he has only mentioned that Square Enix would be getting a rep. The characters are what he was told. He has not publicly made conclusions about the list. He knows that Square Enix uses leak bait, so all he mentions is that they will be getting a new rep

True, but he did mention which ones seem more likely based on the amount of times he's heard their names

 

[Deleted member]

True, but he did mention which ones seem more likely based on the amount of times he's heard their names

Source?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

A thought occurs, and this is pure speculation. But when I think about it, the geno and sephiroth thing kind of lines up pretty well with the list of seven info that we have.
The way I see it, we have sephiroth, chrono and dragon quest in the top three that's been heard.
We also know that people have said that geno shouldn't be taken seriously, and that makes me think "why would people say that unless geno was being considered at all?" If geno was being negotiated against someone like, say sephiroth, the average insider might feel that against such a titanic character geno has no chance, and would pass this bias along to their leaker friends.

But again, pure speculation.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Is there a full list of datamined spirits from the day one patch yet? Sorta want to check it out and see if there's anything strange I might have missed.

 

[Kuon]

Source?

The image that I shared earlier https://imgur.com/a/gbMYO0a

 

[Fatmanonice]

That's not what I heard, and when I saw Vergeben's private message after it got leaked, it said that Sephiroth, a Dragon Quest character (Slime, Erdrick, and the Luminary), and Chrono were the most likely ones. It said that Sora was out and not to take Geno seriously. Here's the message: https://imgur.com/a/gbMYO0a

Like I said earlier, it boils down to personal opinion. Outside the Smash and Nintendo fan context, he's a literal who. This is what has convinced people like them that Geno's leak bait, not hard evidence. There appears to be hard evidence against Sora by a number of accounts. Geno's just pure dismissal, again, as someone who has seen all the released info shared among insiders on the table. It's taking the statement to its most literal and people are split based on their own opinions.

 

[Deleted member]

The image that I shared earlier https://imgur.com/a/gbMYO0a

Alright. Then again, I believe that it is pure specualtion

 

[valkiriforce]

Every now and then whenever I look at that Geno dabbing gif I can imagine hearing squeaky hinges.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

If we don't get Geno; at the VERY least could it not be a Dragon Quest rep?

 

[The Anigriffin]

A thought occurs, and this is pure speculation. But when I think about it, the geno and sephiroth thing kind of lines up pretty well with the list of seven info that we have.
The way I see it, we have sephiroth, chrono and dragon quest in the top three that's been heard.
We also know that people have said that geno shouldn't be taken seriously, and that makes me think "why would people say that unless geno was being considered at all?" If geno was being negotiated against someone like, say sephiroth, the average insider might feel that against such a titanic character geno has no chance, and would pass this bias along to their leaker friends.

But again, pure speculation.

Sometimes the craziest theories are the ones that turn out to be true~

 

[Deleted member]

If we don't get Geno; at the VERY least could it not be a Dragon Quest rep?

I agree. I would like Crono or Mallow if Geno isn't it. Sephiroth after those two

 

[Kuon]

If we don't get Geno; at the VERY least could it not be a Dragon Quest rep?

It's fine not to want a DQ rep, but I'm curious why you're so against the idea

 

[alemerltoucanet]

If we don't get Geno; at the VERY least could it not be a Dragon Quest rep?

That's how I am. I really just don't want a DQ rep. Give us something at least a little more hype than that, like Crono or something.

 

[Datboigeno]

Well on the other hand, it goes both ways with assuming that the Geno crowd will produce more sales than say, the FFVII crowd.

And yeah, votes be there an good indicator, but do we know that the big companies see that always as a gurantee of that character actually selling well and longer?

Not to mention, this doesn't take into account all the other possible factors of the vote. As I've said before, in addition to the support there has actually been for the characters, sometimes people have been more quiet about it because it seemed like more of a pipe dream up until this point.

And really, would people expect the villain to come in before the hero of the game when it comes to the official ballot? Furthermore, think about it. With how stingy Square has been revealed to be lately, it's only becuase of leaks that we, the inner circle are even fathoming another Square rep. that as well, could affect how much people talk about other Square reps compared to say, Geno, who's been asked for at quite the volume for years and Sora who's more a Disney rep.

And we come back to the main point that in terms of things currently around, Sephiroth has more stuff keeping him in the vogue. Not dissing Geno, but not as much people in the big picture talk about him. And say they're trying to attract new players outside the core for longevity and you can see why people would argue Sephiroth's favor and case.

Not to mention, unlike more hard core fighters, Smash tends to maintain even its casual audiences more consistently along with the competitive side. bit of food for thought.

That's a neat Squidward reference given your avatar there.

But it doesn’t really go both ways. Objectively more people have voted for Geno in Smash than Sephiroth. That’s not an assumption it’s a fact we can back up with actual polling data. We don’t know the weight companies put on it but we can’t really discount it considering Nintendo did go through the trouble of running the ballot in the first place. And historically it doesn’t really matter whether people thought something was a pipe dream when it comes to voting for characters. You just have to look at polls and see how high Goku ranked to figure that one out. If people wanted Seph they’d vote for Seph it’s that simple. I don’t really buy the argument that a massive amount of fans would leap to SSBU if Seph is in just because he’s going to be in the FF7 remake.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

It's fine not to want a DQ rep, but I'm curious why you're so against the idea

sometimes people just don't like a concept or IP. Nobody wants to see characters they don't like in their favorite games. For me, it's Steve.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

It's fine not to want a DQ rep, but I'm curious why you're so against the idea

Ever since I heard some of the behind the scenes stuff about people involved with Dragon Quest; I don't want Smash to have anything to do with them. Plus that would be the most shill pick out of all the Square Reps. At least Sora has a massive fanbase who want him; even if I'm hesitant to let him join.

 

[Deleted member]

It's fine not to want a DQ rep, but I'm curious why you're so against the idea

Well, the options from DQ is either another anime swordsman, which, we already have too many. It wouldn't bring something new to the roster.

Slime would be unique, but....Slime. It's a piece of Slime. This would be horrible

 

[Nazyrus]

I feel like Fatmanonice actually DOES know who's in and is trying to either hype us up; or gently opening us up to the idea that Geno didn't make it in.

I can confirm this is not the case, because I also talk with him and polar on discord and we are all just waiting for confirmation at this point because what we have shared here is what we got so far and we are already not jumping to a conclusion simply because we have no further solid evidence towards a specific character. We are all in the same boat of waiting at the moment here.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I will repeat once again that no one knows the DLC aside from people super close to Nintendo like the TreeHouse Crew. I'm not being cheeky and I also think you all are setting yourselves up when it comes to the VGAs. The announcement should be good but not face-meltingly good based on what I've seen. Tread carefully.

 

[SilentSentinel]

Removed from forum

 

[Kuon]

Ever since I heard some of the behind the scenes stuff about people involved with Dragon Quest; I don't want Smash to have anything to do with them. Plus that would be the most shill pick out of all the Square Reps. At least Sora has a massive fanbase who want him; even if I'm hesitant to let him join.

What have you heard behind the scenes?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

What have you heard behind the scenes?

Just the **** with the composer. I don't want him getting a single penny of smash cash.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

What have you heard behind the scenes?

it probably has something to do with the composer being a real piece of work, politically speaking, though I don't know if I should get into that here.

 

[Kuon]

Just the **** with the composer. I don't want him getting a single penny of smash cash.

I'm not sure what he's done that would make you resent him so much, but I'm sure there's a reason

 

[Luigifan18]

There's one little thing that makes me rather worried about Geno's chances, particularly in the context of being revealed at the Game Awards tomorrow (or whenever the first Fighter Pass character is announced). As I'm sure we all know, there is a very loud (if not large) portion of the Smash fanbase that makes a very big deal of the concept of "series representation" — that the number of playable characters a series gets to have in Smash should be directly proportional to its overall success and popularity, as well as its importance in the eyes of Nintendo (by which a lot of them mean its importance in their eyes), and also that series in a certain "tier" of popularity should get a roughly equal number of characters. These are the people who complain about Fire Emblem, Pokémon, and Kid Icarus having too many characters (especially Fire Emblem) and about Kirby, Donkey Kong Country, Metroid, and Zelda not having enough characters (though, admittedly, a lot of them have been placated in regards to Metroid) — and they're starting to complain about Mario having too many characters as well. Now, to be honest, Sakurai and Nintendo probably don't care about "series representation" to anywhere near the extent that this vocal segment of the Smash fanbase does... but after the lukewarm reception to the November Direct, maybe they'll want to be careful about making the fans upset again in such a short span of time (and right before Ultimate gets released). So, the question I have is thus...

Do you really think the series-representation-fugs are going to react non-negatively to two DLC characters in a row from the same series — and one of the biggest series in Smash on top of that?!?

Seriously. If Geno gets announced as the next DLC character after Pirahna Plant, there are going to be riots. And I'm not sure if Nintendo is willing to incite riots.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I'm not sure what he's done that would make you resent him so much, but I'm sure there's a reason

I dunno if we're allowed to post straight links; so here's obligatory text
https://www.gamerevolution.com/news...gon-quest-composer-spurs-square-enix-response

 

[paper roxy]

But getting DQ in Smash would make them successful in the west, just like with FE

fire emblems first introduction to the west was smash. dragon quests wasnt, and smash bros wont suddenly make a game popular. there a huge difference between introducing an untested franchise to smash and an already tested and failed one.

This isn't true and Square has gone on record saying as much. Why do you think 11 is getting such a massive push?

damn, i wouldve never guessed that a company would say that them trying to reintroduce their game for the umpteenth time isnt beating a dead horse. what a revelation!

 

[Kuon]

I can confirm this is not the case, because I also talk with him and polar on discord and we are all just waiting for confirmation at this point because what we have shared here is what we got so far and we are already not jumping to a conclusion simply because we have no further solid evidence towards a specific character. We are all in the same boat of waiting at the moment here.

I'm not jumping to any conclusions either. I'm just saying which characters I think are more likely than others and trying to figure out who has the best chance