Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[PhilosophicAnimal]

What are everyone's favorite video game music tracks?

Mine's the Grand Finale from M&L Bowser's Inside Story, Smiles and Tears from Earthbound, Goodbye Geno from Super Mario RPG, and Porky's Porkies and Porky's theme from Mother 3

Finally caught up so I can talk about this! Game music is just about all I listen to, so this topic is my jam. Alright, so...

1. Stickerbush Symphony. This has been my favorite track of all time for years. Nothing has topped it. Not sure if anything ever will. The atmosphere, the melody, and the feeling in this song is so strong...I tear up on hearing it near every time. None of the remixes do it justice--only the OCRemix got close.

2. Hydrocity Act 2 from Sonic 3/Mania. Another that has never been topped. Tee Lopes, the composer for Mania, even said his remix wasn't very different because the song was already perfect. I tend to agree.

3. 02's theme from Kirby 64. Just so powerful.

4. Edge of Green from Radiant Historia. Probably my favorite Yoko Shimomura track (Sorry SMRPG, lol.) Here it is, if you've never heard it:

Speaks for itself, I think.

5. Planet Brainwave from Super Bomberman R. A newer pick, but I had to rep Bomberman. Always found the series' music to be oddly great. The tracks in R are surprisingly awesome.

I could go on, but I'll stick with the five, lol. Generally speaking, all Sonic, Kirby, DKC, Bomberman music is amazing stuff. Listen to it all the time.

And here I went through the whole game thinking I was nailing Geno Beam like a boss. Now I feel like a chump.

You are not alone, my friend. I can't believe I had no idea about this. No wonder the move never seemed to do enough...all the missed damage over the years. It haunts me.

 

[GoeGoe]

I agree as I told GoeGoe I think its very suspicious there are so many DQ reps on the list of SE reps. No other series has that many, so what makes DQ so special? Also the fact Erdrick and The Luminary are paired so often that Vergeben might think they are one character is suspicious. Why pair two characters together, unless one of them is real? I know DQ rights is a nightmare, but it makes sense Square and Nintendo might choose to go this route. After all DQ 11 and DQ builders 2 is coming to the Switch. And we know Square loves cross promotion, plus Nintendo would benefit from it too. The whole DQ thing is really odd. In some ways they are the most likely and in some ways they are the least likely, its a very interesting paradox.

I've been summoned X)
Well that's why I say it's Slime, the one that's been mentioned once.
Err.. I wouldn't ask what makes DQ so special X) Nightmare or not, it's not even in Sakurai's concern. Nintendo's taking care of that this time. I's a bait, that's my guess why they're paired. So here's in short what I think (sorry if this goes against your wishes buddy )
- My first thoughts were that Sakurai won't abandon his fans, so he'd go Geno. Him saying it's a Nintendo decision is either a hint that it's a No or he's just trolling as usual. As for spirits, I'm 50-50 on that. so who knows.. a mere couple of days to end this anyways.
- I think Neku's TWEWY is the next SE contender.
- Next is a DQ rep and it's most likely Slime.
- Sora and Sephiroth, not this time.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Moving the topic back to Geno, if he gets in Smash Ultimate what would his moveset be? Would he have a new Spirit added and would he be added to the World of Light story mode, any thoughts on this?

Delthezin on Youtube (and someone else too) put out a really cool, really thorough video on the potential of Geno as a character and a potential Geno moveset. I agree with a lot of it.

He would definitely have a new spirit, one to reflect his brand new render.

No matter how you slice it, it’s newcomers that advertise new games. Veterans, stages, ATs, those are all things that get lost in the shuffle. Cloud gets as much promotion as any other character, whereas a newcomer (especially a DLC newcomer, as those are revealed in a vacuum) gets a lot more exposure. Plus, they can reveal Sephiroth alongside a trailer for FF7/FF7R for Switch like they did with Isabelle.



This is the Geno support thread, not the Geno and nobody else support thread. People can support Geno while also wanting other characters more.

Plus, people arguing against Geno’s chances is just another chance to argue for them and expose them. Maybe you change somebody’s mind, maybe you learn something, who knows. Non-aggressive discussion isn’t something to be rejected. If you don’t want it to happen you can just not answer too.

Plus, Sora thread has gotten a few people stating Sora’s disconfirmed, so naturally they’re going to come to the source of the rumor. The Bandanna Dee thread has discussed the likelihood of Marx and Adeleine, and the Porky and Ninten threads debate how the other’s chances affect them. It’s not a raid on Geno, nor is it an exclusive phenomenon.

.

I agree. I love analyzing people's reasons as to why Geno wouldn't be in, so I can see if I can counter them with theories, hypotheticals, and facts from Ultimate and past games.

Hi A.G.L. I don't know you but your post is very logical and interesting and I liked it a lot! I used to think that Geno was against the odds but now I believe he has great chances. So, I decided to reply with a few thoughts that I already had in my mind and others that came after reading your post, to show you why I changed my mind.
I'll reply in a list of bullets to separate the subjects. I know my post is big and I can be verbose because english is not my main language, but I would appreciate if you read it.

Spoiler: 1- What I do not agree on your post

1- I think that you are forgetting how Nintendo/Sakurai chose the DLCs. Sakurai/Nintendo don't chose a company and than a character, they only chose a character. That means that Nintendo did not say "Hey I want a Square Rep" and than Square choose the better character for revenue purpose. Sakurai/Nintendo chosed the character "X" from nitnendo's list and happened that the character was from Square, than the say "Square can we use X?" if the answer was Yes than we have a Square Rep. If not than we don't have it. I agree that when it comes to a FF rep, maybe Sakurai/Nintendo only wanted a FF character and Square choosed the character, but when it comes from a lot of different IPs, character, target audiences, etc. I think that Sakurai/Nintendo already choose what they want before meeting with Square.

Spoiler: 2- Square's interest in profits when it comes to SSB

2- I don't think that Square care that much about SSB and it's profit opportunities, because If they did, they could use more aggressive approaches putting more musics in the game, more characters and even selling their DLC at a higher price. Square knows how to be megalomaniac when they truly believe in something.

Spoiler: 3- The strongest argument in favor of Geno in my opinion

3- One thing and probably is the most important one in my post is the fact that Geno and Chocobo were chosen for the Cloud's DLC. Mii Costumes and it's possibilities are strong point to raise sales for DLCs in Smash4. And for some unkown reason Geno was chosed. At that time I thought Mii customes would be DQ, KH, Chrono Trigger, etc. I never imagined that Square's only IP in the game besides the FF would be the SMRPG. But for some reason Nintendo and Square talked looking to DLC's sales, game promotion, etc and concluded that the better character to stay at Cloud's side was Geno! This is a miracle in my opinion but it show us that maybe Geno has very strong points that could be enough to Square and Nintendo make he as an unique character happen!

Spoiler: 4- Sephiroth's flaw in my opinion

4- Sephiroth was a huge "against argument": Now that we don't have Mii Costumes on the DLCs anymore (at least for what we know), musics and stages became more important (to justify the price in relation to the other DLCs). We already have a FFVII stage and this could make Sephiroth's stage less than a "must have". Apparently Nintendo canoot find a way to put more Square content in the game. All of this makes me think that having a lot of FFVII musics in the game is unlikely and without a unique stage the only thing that this DLC has is Sephiroth itself, what could be a problematic strategy and could make people prioritize other DLCs (fighters).

Spoiler: 5- DQ's flaw in my opinion

5- DQ also has a strategy issue: Putting a DQ character in the base game could be good and make the game has more appeal to Japan. But when we talk about DLCs, it's like a new product itself, what means that it have to sell well by itself. That means that outside of japan people could prioritize other DLCs than Square's, what is bad for Square, of course! DQ only aim for Japan while the others DLCs could aim for the entire world!

Spoiler: 6- Sora/KH's flaw in my opinion

6- When we talk about Sora, I don't think that Nintendo would like to promote a character from a game that is going to be released close to Smash but is exclusive to PS4 and Xbox One. I mean, Nintendo would not want to risk losing Smash players (who pay Switch Online) for another console because of KH3.

Spoiler: 7- Nintendo's interest in legacy characters and conclusion

7- As showed with King K Rool and Ridley, Nintendo care and aims to satisfy old hardcore fans (after all this generates news about the game and help promote it). If for some reason they are not able to get Banjo, and considering all the ATs unconfirmed, Geno may be one of the last options for Nintendo to satisfy old hardcore fans with DLCs.
Also, as sad before, I believe that DQ, Sephiroth and Sora will not be chosen, and with an unpopular old-school character against another unpopular old-school character, Geno has more chances due to the SMRPG port on SnesMini agains the lack of attention that Square showed with Chrono Trigger's recent ports (PC/Mobile).
And, of course, Geno has a stronger fanbase than Crono

Thanks for reading, It's really cool when this thread can have smart discussions and yours is for sure one of them!

Going along with this, I think one of Geno's strongest traits is that, at his core, he is truly the definitive Nintendo-Square Rep. (I did not say Square rep.) He is a SE owned and designed character for a Nintendo game in a Nintendo universe. No other character in the "SE List" shares this distinction with Nintendo.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I have Smash prepurchased and it's installed on my switch. Does anyone know if the game will be available right away at 12 a.m. on Friday? Or does it take a little?

 

[Loliko YnT]

What are everyone's favorite video game music tracks?

Mine's the Grand Finale from M&L Bowser's Inside Story, Smiles and Tears from Earthbound, Goodbye Geno from Super Mario RPG, and Porky's Porkies and Porky's theme from Mother 3

Oh , usually , I prefer to be at home when answering this kind of question since I can look into my video game collection , otherwise I realize I forgot one track , then two , then HOW COULD I FORGET THIS ONE , but I'll name a few:

-The Final Battle (M&L Partners in Time) such an unique track for a Mario game. This music has a very sad tone with an epic orchestral. To be simple , this isn't an epic battle , this is 2 races fighting each other to keep a place to call "Home". That's what this track say to me.(yeah , edgy , but It's done right in my opinion.)

-Stickerbush Symphony (The Brawl Remix) my favorite video game music EVER. I have so much nostalgia towards it... When I was playing Brawl and the SE... Not a single thing to worry about... This track remind me that I should appreciate the present.

-Let's Go down the Wine River ! (SMRPG) It has a very simple melody , but it stuck with me. It's bouncy , and it make a very good break after the first big dungeon and one of the first boss of the game.

-Memory (Chibi-robo !) I love sad video game music. Giga-Robo(I'm french , so I dunno if his name is different in english) backstory with the Sanderson familly hit me hard each time I replay this gem. The tragic tale of a family member lost forever to the basement... But you are the one who will change that.

-Distant Spring (Pikmin 1). Pikmin's OST is so unique , because it is an interactive one , and manage to catch this feeling of loneliness in this huge world. It seem like a calm world , but nature is cruel , my friend.

-Titan Dweevil (Pikmin 2) one of my favorite final boss fight ever (If you don't abuse the Yellow Pikmin strategy.) and his track reflect how badass it is.

-Challenge mode(Pikmin 3) raw nostalgia. I played the challenge mode over and over and still play it , Pikmin 3 was the first game I tried speedrun on , and these levels are still a blast to play.

-Fragment of Hope (Hey ! Pikmin) this track isn't an interactive one , but I would be lying if I was saying it wasn't an epic music. I'm happy It's in Ultimate.

There , I'll stop for now.

 

[Deleted member]

That Day 1 patch made Dr. Mario jump lower. R.I.P. High jumping Doc

 

[KanataLen]

it's been discussed ad nausium here before with Geno's moveset, but i have been thinking about his specials and have thought of two different ways that they could be done:

if there is just the 4:

neutral: Beam, chargable, storable and at full charge does two hits (small low knockback beam to expand to high damage and knocback beam, mimicking the in-game function)

side: whirl. fast moving with lots of cool down* making it risky to use. has one of those "large sour spot small sweet spot" deals going on, and the sweet spot only activates on pressing the button again (animated with the disc bursting), if the sweet spot lands it does 1.2x damage and 4x knockback (making it not quite rest level, but close). the idea would be to make it a high risk high reward move, but very hard to land.
*if timed hit lands cool down is negated

down: Blast, also chargable (but not storable), like pika thunder, but weaker and each beam only does one hit w/ no stun effect. goes from 1-5 beams on either side of geno depending on charge

Up: Boost, has grounded and aerial versions. grounded is just like in game, time it right and next attack and hit taken are each at 1.2 attack and defense. in the air it's boosting into the air, correct timing gets a second short boost (arrows do damage)

final: is flash

if all 5 are incorporated into the specials:

same placement and function, but netral is now boost, which also charges next special (changes to fully charged beam after)
up changes to the cannon shot that most people talk about, a mini geno flash, final is still flash though.

 

[Deleted member]

Since we're talking about a Geno moveset, I think his moveset from Legacy XP is the ideal Geno moveset. I especially love his up and side specials.

Though I've always wondered what kind of alternate costumes he would have. I want to see a Mallow inspired costume if he gets in.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, I hope people have been paying attention to the arguments going on because it's exactly my point that Geno's perceived chances among insiders is a huge point of contention. This why it's so heavily split between "he's super obvious leak-bait" and "hmmm. There's something definitely going on here." That's why I have advised people to avoid opinions that are absolutes because I've seen the evidence behind the scenes and there's no strong evidence for any of SE characters. Everyone just has their own theories and that's a big reason why it's so spread out and the only thing people agree on is that there's like a 95% chance that Sora is not in.

On other topics:

On Dragon Quest's liscensing: I've seen the argument that Nintendo would just plow through it but if they didn't for the Mario Sports games, why would they here? Remember, Nintendo liscensed their characters to Square, not the other way around. I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating: Dragon Quest has never in its entirety of its history been liscensed out. Its only crossovers have been Final Fantasy and Mario and those games were internal meaning developed by SE. Yet another repeated point: DQ was never liscensed for the Wii or Wii U Virtual Console in any region nor the NES Classic or SNES Classic aside from a super limited Japanese exclusive version of the NES:

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clvj/sp/index.html

Seriously though, look at Dragon Quest's liscensing here:

1986 ARMOR PROJECT / BIRD STUDIO / SPIKE CHUNSOFT / SQUARE ENIX All Rights Reserved

That's just for a single game for a special edition that Shonen Jump literally liscensed themselves. Holy Hell... That's no picnic. That's 3-5 times the work for a single IP that gamers outside Japan kind of shrug at and Smash fans in general DGAF if it's represented in Smash. It's not worth it.

On Sephiroth expanding Final Fantasy branding: I've seen the argument that Sephiroth's main purpose would be to bolster Final Fantasy's somewhat anemic presence in Smash Bros but the character doesn't do a good job it. He doesn't bring anything that Cloud doesn't already, which is why he's never appeared in a game that Cloud wasn't in. Cloud has been in several crossovers that Square Enix didn't develop. Sephiroth never has. Like Dragon Quest, he's never appeared in a game that Square Enix didn't develop. Ironically enough, Geno has... Thrice. It should also be noted that Sephiroth's only cameo on a Nintendo platform was one of the Final Fantasy spinoff music games where, again, he was following Cloud's lead.

Now, you might make the argument that Cloud's Nintendo cameos weren't great before Smash either but Cloud's distinctly the face of the Final Fantasy franchise. The same can't be said about Sephiroth, just as Bowser never subverts Mario or Ganon to Link. None of them appear without their respective hero in games, adding more to how Sephiroth is honestly less Final Fantasy branding and more Final Fantasy VII branding. Now, in regards to hypothetical Sephiroth DLC, we need a stage and music. Music would likely be the original and Advent Children versions of One Winged Angel. Stage would just be yet another FF VII stage. See the problem? It's saturation, not expansion. If the goal is to call to light a series that has 15 mainline games, this isn't doing a good job.

Sephiroth also breaks a lot of fanmade rules but, as we've dictated, there's logic behind them. No third party franchise has more than one totally original character. Again, it prevents oversaturation of third party properties. Ryu and Ken are like Mario and Luigi and the Belmonts are literally family and play similarly between games. In a sense, Ken compliments Ryu presence as the icon of Street Fighter. Richter does the same for Simon.

This concept can even be extended to first and second party franchises throughout Smash history. Back in the day, Roy did this with Marth because Fire Emblem was already pushing it's luck being a Japanese exclusive. Star Fox was two games in Melee. Mother was 3 with two Japanese exclusives in Brawl. There's definitely purpose in this.

Then comes stages. No third party franchise aside from Sonic has more than one original stage. Why? Because Classic vs Modern is a literal gameplay distinction in the Sonic franchise and you have one representing each. Classic Megaman having a Megaman X stage wouldn't make sense and neither would Sephiroth having anything outside of Final Fantasy VII. Again, ignoring these rules creates super concentration and notably playing favorites in a big way.

This all said, why would they do this for Sephiroth? As I said before, he's literally had one cameo on a Nintendo platform. He's not the star, the star's already in, so why would they go to extreme lengths for special treatment for him, especially since it's Nintendo's game, not Square's? The furthest they've pushed the envelope with any third party character in Smash is Bayonetta and they did it because of the extreme global fan demand. That doesn't exist here.

As mentioned yesterday, Sephiroth isn't even a second thought for most Smash fans, he's like fourth or fifth. Bottom line is that Sephiroth requires a simply profound amount of catering to be implemented into Smash and we haven't even touched on probable balancing issues. This is why "he's an iconic villain" and "he expands Final Fantasy's prescence in Smash" are not good arguments.

 

[UberPyro64]

Fatmanonice On the whole Dragon Quest licencing thing never happening before, there is always a first for everything. They might see Smash as a good starting point for licencing out the series for promotion. It could be a good way to get the series more popular in the west. Hell it might be why negotiations took so long in the first place. That's all just speculation though, I could be completely wrong on that.

Anyway, how much harder or easier would it be to obtain Chrono Trigger? Since that's a Square side thing but still deals with Toriyama?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Nintendo does not at all need to be submissive. We keep neglecting the Nintendo factor here.

If Nintendo wants Geno and are offered Seph, probably aren't gonna take Seph. They'd just take no one. They're not obligated to have another Squenix rep.
Swap those 2 names out for any other of the 7, my point stands.

You could be wrong about that because if that was the case, then we wouldn't have gotten Cloud back. Negotiations about who the 2nd Square-Enix rep will be must have go on as early as when Sakurai was discussing with Square-Enix on bringing Cloud back for ''Everyone Is Here!''. I don't really know anything about contracts, but there might have been a paragraph in the contract for when Square-Enix was jumping back on the Smash train where it says: ''You will get Cloud, but only if you put another one of our characters in as DLC and from a list of our choosing.''

 

[Pristine]

So, I hope people have been paying attention to the arguments going on because it's exactly my point that Geno's perceived chances among insiders is a huge point of contention. This why it's so heavily split between "he's super obvious leak-bait" and "hmmm. There's something definitely going on here." That's why I have advised people to avoid opinions that are absolutes because I've seen the evidence behind the scenes and there's no strong evidence for any of SE characters. Everyone just has their own theories and that's a big reason why it's so spread out and the only thing people agree on is that there's like a 95% chance that Sora is not in.

On other topics:

On Dragon Quest's liscensing: I've seen the argument that Nintendo would just plow through it but if they didn't for the Mario Sports games, why would they here? Remember, Nintendo liscensed their characters to Square, not the other way around. I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating: Dragon Quest has never in its entirety of its history been liscensed out. Its only crossovers have been Final Fantasy and Mario and those games were internal meaning developed by SE. Yet another repeated point: DQ was never liscensed for the Wii or Wii U Virtual Console in any region nor the NES Classic or SNES Classic aside from a super limited Japanese exclusive version of the NES:

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clvj/sp/index.html

Seriously though, look at Dragon Quest's liscensing here:

1986 ARMOR PROJECT / BIRD STUDIO / SPIKE CHUNSOFT / SQUARE ENIX All Rights Reserved

That's just for a single game for a special edition that Shonen Jump literally liscensed themselves. Holy Hell... That's no picnic. That's 3-5 times the work for a single IP that gamers outside Japan kind of shrug at and Smash fans in general DGAF if it's represented in Smash. It's not worth it.

On Sephiroth expanding Final Fantasy branding: I've seen the argument that Sephiroth's main purpose would be to bolster Final Fantasy's somewhat anemic presence in Smash Bros but the character doesn't do a good job it. He doesn't bring anything that Cloud doesn't already, which is why he's never appeared in a game that Cloud wasn't in. Cloud has been in several crossovers that Square Enix didn't develop. Sephiroth never has. Like Dragon Quest, he's never appeared in a game that Square Enix didn't develop. Ironically enough, Geno has... Thrice. It should also be noted that Sephiroth's only cameo on a Nintendo platform was one of the Final Fantasy spinoff music games where, again, he was following Cloud's lead.

Now, you might make the argument that Cloud's Nintendo cameos weren't great before Smash either but Cloud's distinctly the face of the Final Fantasy franchise. The same can't be said about Sephiroth, just as Bowser never subverts Mario or Ganon to Link. None of them appear without their respective hero in games, adding more to how Sephiroth is honestly less Final Fantasy branding and more Final Fantasy VII branding. Now, in regards to hypothetical Sephiroth DLC, we need a stage and music. Music would likely be the original and Advent Children versions of One Winged Angel. Stage would just be yet another FF VII stage. See the problem? It's saturation, not expansion. If the goal is to call to light a series that has 15 mainline games, this isn't doing a good job.

Sephiroth also breaks a lot of fanmade rules but, as we've dictated, there's logic behind them. No third party franchise has more than one totally original character. Again, it prevents oversaturation of third party properties. Ryu and Ken are like Mario and Luigi and the Belmonts are literally family and play similarly between games. In a sense, Ken compliments Ryu presence as the icon of Street Fighter. Richter does the same for Simon.

This concept can even be extended to first and second party franchises throughout Smash history. Back in the day, Roy did this with Marth because Fire Emblem was already pushing it's luck being a Japanese exclusive. Star Fox was two games in Melee. Mother was 3 with two Japanese exclusives in Brawl. There's definitely purpose in this.

Then comes stages. No third party franchise aside from Sonic has more than one original stage. Why? Because Classic vs Modern is a literal gameplay distinction in the Sonic franchise and you have one representing each. Classic Megaman having a Megaman X stage wouldn't make sense and neither would Sephiroth having anything outside of Final Fantasy VII. Again, ignoring these rules creates super concentration and notably playing favorites in a big way.

This all said, why would they do this for Sephiroth? As I said before, he's literally had one cameo on a Nintendo platform. He's not the star, the star's already in, so why would they go to extreme lengths for special treatment for him, especially since it's Nintendo's game, not Square's? The furthest they've pushed the envelope with any third party character in Smash is Bayonetta and they did it because of the extreme global fan demand. That doesn't exist here.

As mentioned yesterday, Sephiroth isn't even a second thought for most Smash fans, he's like fourth or fifth. Bottom line is that Sephiroth requires a simply profound amount of catering to be implemented into Smash and we haven't even touched on probable balancing issues. This is why "he's an iconic villain" and "he expands Final Fantasy's prescence in Smash" are not good arguments.

He'd be our first 3rd party villain though, which would be amazing. Setting aside my subjective bias for him, when it comes to FF, they're practically forced to saturate FF7, I'd say this is due to the next upcoming FF projects that they may or may not be desperate enough to make sure is a success seeing how FFXV busted up pretty badly recently or else we'd be seeing Noctis name running around. He's also quite literally the 2nd most recognizable FF character aside Cloud, that's more of less why he can "expand FF presence in smash". Otherwise yeah, he's basically a mini Cloud in almost every regard (of course, this is all hypothetical, not arbitrary, assumption.)

And yeah everything else besides Geno is licensing hell, so that's part of the reason why you really only hear Sephiroth being thrown around (aside DQ) since aside Geno, he theoretically has the next highest chance.

 

[EarlTamm]

He'd be our first 3rd party villain though, which would be amazing. Setting aside my subjective bias for him, when it comes to FF, they're practically forced to saturate FF7, I'd say this is due to the next upcoming FF projects that they may or may not be desperate enough to make sure is a success seeing how FFXV busted up pretty badly recently or else we'd be seeing Noctis name running around. He's also quite literally the 2nd most recognizable FF character aside Cloud, that's more of less why he can "expand FF presence in smash". Otherwise yeah, he's basically a mini Cloud in almost every regard (of course, this is all hypothetical, not arbitrary, assumption.)

And yeah everything else besides Geno is licensing hell, so that's part of the reason why you really only hear Sephiroth being thrown around (aside DQ) since aside Geno, he theoretically has the next highest chance.

I would not say they are forced, as there are many other FF games being released besides FFVII. I feel like the other games need help more, as FFVII is iconic enough on it's own and already has a rep in Smash.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

He'd be our first 3rd party villain though, which would be amazing. Setting aside my subjective bias for him, when it comes to FF, they're practically forced to saturate FF7, I'd say this is due to the next upcoming FF projects that they may or may not be desperate enough to make sure is a success seeing how FFXV busted up pretty badly recently or else we'd be seeing Noctis name running around. He's also quite literally the 2nd most recognizable FF character aside Cloud, that's more of less why he can "expand FF presence in smash". Otherwise yeah, he's basically a mini Cloud in almost every regard (of course, this is all hypothetical, not arbitrary, assumption.)

And yeah everything else besides Geno is licensing hell, so that's part of the reason why you really only hear Sephiroth being thrown around (aside DQ) since aside Geno, he theoretically has the next highest chance.

It's kind of crazy to think Sephiroth might be our first unique 2nd 3rd party rep from an existing 3rd party series already in Smash. I always thought Tails would be the first 2nd represented 3rd party character to get into Smash because of him being the 2nd most iconic co-protagonist in gaming history.

 

[A.G.L.]

Not sure anyone has seen this, but I find it very interesting Nintendo is tweeting about The Game Awards and then mentioning Smash Ultimate. Perhaps the first DLC announcement, is on its way?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[-Coco-]

I think the big thing about Square is that FF is hurting them really bad and they REALLY want DQ to succeed here. I don't think it's just happenstance that a lot of their small projects ceased to come over here once Square started taking financial hits. Everyone in the DQ community likes to point the finger at Square saying they just hate the west when it comes to DQ but they forget many things.


Such as DQ9 and 6 releasing in the West on the heels of the two largest profit losses in SE's history (at least in terms of internal memo's, as this wouldn't be revealed until later annual reports). So anything with lower priority was shut down. Blood of Bahamut was also likely never localized for the same reason. You can thank Crystal Tools, the Fabula Nova Crytallis game debacles with delays and alterations to the tool kit, changed systems, etc. Though mostly it's FF14 that was the biggest issue, alongside the nearly 90% loss in FF11 subscriptions from over 2.5m to about 250k.

but it wasn't like SE was planning on not releasing 9. It's just the timing, and the way their communications network functioned at the time was horrendously slow and apparently money would get lost down the channels constantly for smaller projects. Only major priorities had any chance of releasing. It's just bad timing and really bad management.

You can see this with Square also canceling the FF15 DLC. They HAVE to start expanding their other more successful series (KH and DQ being the frontrunners)

Square Enix actually needs Dragon Quest to become successful in the West if they want to continue forward with their budgets, and to off-set the potential chance of sales shortcomings in Japan if they ever do a console release again. SE spent a LOT more money and time promoting DQ11 than DQ8. The convention showcasings for literally every major convention from e3 to release, even one that ended a DAY or two before official release says volumes.

I know all about these convention visits because i flew out to California specifically to meet Yuji Horii (Creator of DQ).

This might seem like an off topic tangent but it's very relevant to Square's inner workings and how they might choose DLC this time around. Nintendo choosing it is of course also a factor.

 

[maf91186]

Let me start off by saying I don't want DQ or any other Square rep to be in before Geno, but I have to ask: Why would it be so unlikely for Nintendo to work with licensing to bring it to Smash when they've already brought it in for games as minor as Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street? Apologies if this has been asked before. I try to keep up with this thread as much as possible but sometimes I miss as many as 12 pages at a time. Feel free to ignore if this has been talked to death lol. Thanks

 

[-Coco-]

Let me start off by saying I don't want DQ or any other Square rep to be in before Geno, but I have to ask: Why would it be so unlikely for Nintendo to work with licensing to bring it to Smash when they've already brought it in for games as minor as Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street? Apologies if this has been asked before. I try to keep up with this thread as much as possible but sometimes I miss as many as 12 pages at a time. Feel free to ignore if this has been talked to death lol. Thanks

Those games were made by Square so it was Nintendo lending the licensing and not the other way around.

 

[timbo8]

Not sure anyone has seen this, but I find it very interesting Nintendo is tweeting about The Game Awards and then mentioning Smash Ultimate. Perhaps the first DLC announcement, is on its way?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

maybe but I’m not holding my breath

 

[maf91186]

Ooooooooh. That does make quite the difference lol. Thanks

 

[ChoccyStar]

God, I dreamed that Geno and Mallo were goong to appear in Marvel vs Capcom 5. I think I should stop coming here.

 

[FalconFire93]

Finally got Smash Ultimate paid off, now to play the waiting game for today and tomorrow.

 

[A.G.L.]

If you combine the following tweets together, definitely seems like their is some sort of Smash announcement at The Game Awards.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Also Necro Toad haven't forgotten about you I will be responding to your excellent points later on today .

 

[ShinyReshiram]

If you combine the following tweets together, definitely seems like their is some sort of Smash announcement at The Game Awards.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Also Necro Toad haven't forgotten about you I will be responding to your excellent points later on today .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II4rlQY8f8s

 

[Wambo]

Is it Geno time yet?...

 

[UberPyro64]

So who would you guys say are the most likely characters to get announced here?

Top potential characters in alphabetical order: Banjo-Kazooie, Dante, Doom Slayer, Erdrick, Geno, Monster Hunter, Sephiroth, Steve.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

If you combine the following tweets together, definitely seems like their is some sort of Smash announcement at The Game Awards.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Also Necro Toad haven't forgotten about you I will be responding to your excellent points later on today .

Ohhhh man...gotta bottle this hype. It's building up, and I really don't want it to.

Remember November, me. Remember November.

Whatever they reveal, I really do hope it's something to get excited for. Even if it isn't Geno.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fatmanonice On the whole Dragon Quest licencing thing never happening before, there is always a first for everything. They might see Smash as a good starting point for licencing out the series for promotion. It could be a good way to get the series more popular in the west. Hell it might be why negotiations took so long in the first place. That's all just speculation though, I could be completely wrong on that.

Anyway, how much harder or easier would it be to obtain Chrono Trigger? Since that's a Square side thing but still deals with Toriyama?

Except they've had that opportunity many times in the past before. Like I said in my massive post, the fact that Nintendo with its 140 billion dollar net worth was willing to liscense its most valuable property to Square Enix but Square has never been able to convince themselves to do this with literally anyone with their second most valuable property says a lot. Nintendo and Square had a brief falling out starting in 1997 but Square was once again creating games for Nintendo platforms again by 2001. Seventeen years later and it hasn't been attempted for Dragon Quest. Even the latest attempts of reaching across the aisle are enhanced ports.

You could probably count on your fingers and toes exclusive Final Fantasy games on Nintendo handhelds since 2010 while Dragon Quest has had 1 mainline game and 1 spinoff that were released globally on Nintendo platforms in 2010 and 2011 respectively. Again, they couldn't even convince themselves to do it as early as 2016 with Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior being the series' best selling game and most successful game globally for the NES Classic in any region. The damn thing still regularly sells out two years later. Square looked at Nintendo's best selling product that year and thought, "hmmm, no thanks." That's wild. Same with the Virtual Consoles because they're basically free money with Nintendo getting a cut. Again, a hard no even in Japan where mainline Dragon Quest games sell millions with ease. It now gets into literally why territory and the only logical explanation is extreme red tape thanks to its convoluted copyright.

As for Chrono Trigger, hard to say because I'm still confused about how its liscensing works. If Toriyama owns the art, does that apply to 3D models and sprites? If not, why mention it? I don't know how they would legally separate those two things either way. You need the art to make assets and the assets are in the likeness of the art. 20 Billion Harvard degrees questions aside, it also doesn't help that the franchise has been dead since 1999 and Square just occasionally pokes the 1995 original with a stick, causing it to spasm a bit and cough up pocket change. If Mother is considered dead with its last call in 2006 and F-Zero in 2004, the Chrono series is double dead.

 

[ShinyReshiram]

So who would you guys say are the most likely characters to get announced here?

This is a Geno thread so my answer is really obvious. If it's not Geno time, then I'd welcome Banjo-Kazooie with open arms.

Tbh I hope for any previews for either Metroid Prime 4 or Bayonetta 3. Or both. I lowkey don't really want to get the first DLC reveal lmao.

 

[Pristine]

So who would you guys say are the most likely characters to get announced here?

Top potential characters in alphabetical order: Banjo-Kazooie, Dante, Doom Slayer, Erdrick, Geno, Monster Hunter, Sephiroth, Steve.

I'd say it'd have to be a Square rep before anything. So Dante and Doom Slayer would have to wait.

 

[UberPyro64]

This is a Geno thread so my answer is really obvious. If it's not Geno time, then I'd welcome Banjo-Kazooie with open arms.

Tbh I hope for any previews for either Metroid Prime 4 or Bayonetta 3. Or both. I lowkey don't really want to get the first DLC reveal lmao.

Oops, I actually meant this for the main general thread. Oh well lol.

 

[Tetiro]

So who would you guys say are the most likely characters to get announced here?

Top potential characters in alphabetical order: Banjo-Kazooie, Dante, Doom Slayer, Erdrick, Geno, Monster Hunter, Sephiroth, Steve.

At this point I have no clue. Ultimate's design choices has been so hit and miss that it really questions where they will go as their focus. For example if they focus on Fanservice, Marketing or Third Party it really skews the speculation

Fanservice: Geno, Isaac, Waluigi, Banjo-Kazooie, Bandana Dee
Marketing: Rex, Springman, Eledgard, Pokemon Gen 8, Professor E.Gadd
Third Party: Doom Guy, Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Monster Hunter, Shantae

I'm waiting until that first DLC character is revealed before I make a single prediction.

 

[-Coco-]

while Dragon Quest has had 1 mainline game and 1 spinoff that were released globally on Nintendo platforms in 2010 and 2011 respectively. .

Uhh what? Every major Dragon Quest release has been on a Nintendo system. Since 2010 alone you have Builders, Heroes 1 and 2, 11, DQMJ3, Theatrhythm, DQ10 etc. Also the entire Slime Morimori series is Nintendo exclusive. They even ported the previously Sony exclusive games 7 and 8.

 

[Freaky Mutant Man]

Just to hammer it home.

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Note that the original tweet from him mentioned a "few S P E C I A L things" coming: maybe there's more to this than we might expect?

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

20 Billion Harvard degrees questions aside, it also doesn't help that the franchise has been dead since 1999 and Square just occasionally pokes the 1995 original with a stick, causing it to spasm a bit and cough up pocket change.

This...this got me right here. So much.

Fatman, are you a writer? Because your metaphors are so ridiculously creative. It's one of the highlights of reading your posts.

 

[Deleted member]

If you combine the following tweets together, definitely seems like their is some sort of Smash announcement at The Game Awards.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Also Necro Toad haven't forgotten about you I will be responding to your excellent points later on today .

H E R E

W E

G O

G E N O

T I M E

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

WOOOOOOOOO TIME TO GET MY HEART BROKEN AGAIN

 

[Kuon]

Except they've had that opportunity many times in the past before. Like I said in my massive post, the fact that Nintendo with its 140 billion dollar net worth was willing to liscense its most valuable property to Square Enix but Square has never been able to convince themselves to do this with literally anyone with their second most valuable property says a lot. Nintendo and Square had a brief falling out starting in 1997 but Square was once again creating games for Nintendo platforms again by 2001. Seventeen years later and it hasn't been attempted for Dragon Quest. Even the latest attempts of reaching across the aisle are enhanced ports.

You could probably count on your fingers and toes exclusive Final Fantasy games on Nintendo handhelds since 2010 while Dragon Quest has had 1 mainline game and 1 spinoff that were released globally on Nintendo platforms in 2010 and 2011 respectively. Again, they couldn't even convince themselves to do it as early as 2016 with Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior being the series' best selling game and most successful game globally for the NES Classic in any region. The damn thing still regularly sells out two years later. Square looked at Nintendo's best selling product that year and thought, "hmmm, no thanks." That's wild. Same with the Virtual Consoles because they're basically free money with Nintendo getting a cut. Again, a hard no even in Japan where mainline Dragon Quest games sell millions with ease. It now gets into literally why territory and the only logical explanation is extreme red tape thanks to its convoluted copyright.

This has me confused. This to me seems like you're going back and forth as to whether DQ is likely or not likely. A hard no for what? A hard no for getting DQ on Nintendo platforms? It now gets into literally why territory. Why territory for what? For getting DQ on Nintendo or in Smash or not getting it on Nintendo platforms or not getting it in Smash or what?

 

[Loliko YnT]

So I was looking for a "Let's go Down the Wine River" remix , and I found this :

Weirdly enough , I found the footsteps to go quite well with the music. And oh my , I know that rythm games were hard , but I didn't thought that "Let's Go down the Wine River" would be picked in a tourney and be this hard.

 

[Fatmanonice]

He'd be our first 3rd party villain though, which would be amazing. Setting aside my subjective bias for him, when it comes to FF, they're practically forced to saturate FF7, I'd say this is due to the next upcoming FF projects that they may or may not be desperate enough to make sure is a success seeing how FFXV busted up pretty badly recently or else we'd be seeing Noctis name running around. He's also quite literally the 2nd most recognizable FF character aside Cloud, that's more of less why he can "expand FF presence in smash". Otherwise yeah, he's basically a mini Cloud in almost every regard (of course, this is all hypothetical, not arbitrary, assumption.)

Is he a third party villain? Yes. Is he iconic? Yes. Is he worthy to be the first third party villain in Smash? That's a giant can of worms. He's big, no doubt, but I'd be hard pressed to say he runs away with it. Like I pointed out earlier, Smash technically hasn't invited unique side characters yet for third parties. Ken is Ryu's echo and gaming identity is pretty much wrapped up I his relationship and extreme similarities with Ryu. Richter is just one of a long line of Belmonts. Simon's the big one and the others are interchangeable in Smash whether it's Richter or Trevor or Julian or what have (at) you. That said, there's not even real playable third party sidekicks in Smash yet. Sephiroth would literally be the first totally unique secondary third party character in Smash. That's quite an honor but, hoo lad, you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people that would agree that's the right decision.

"Okay, smartass, what about Geno? Wouldn't he betray this same concept?" No, actually. Even within Smash, Geno is characterized as a Mario character despite his legal rights. That said, Mario additions have been nothing but secondary characters since Melee. You have Mario and Luigi and everyone else is a supporting cast member of the Mario franchise. If you count all the Koopalings and Doc, Geno would actually be the 15th secondary playable Mario character in Smash meaning that bridge was crossed, long, long ago.