Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[TheCJBrine]

the fact that they didnt do young link for 3 days remaining makes me mad

I'm disappointed Skull Kid hasn't been on the blog.

His AT was only confirmed via the Items page, :[

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Wow! We are already at page 480. At this point, we will pass 500 pages before VGA on Thursday.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I will say in terms of whether of not Geno would be financially intresting to Square, we can't forget Geno has direct ties to what is arguably the most recognizable series ever. Square essentially owns a character from one of Nintendo's mascot franchise. Even if he is obscure, there's no doubt his ties to Mario will make him sell even to those who don't know him. Financial wise, I think it's something Square could potentially consider. If they are able to make Geno more mainstream and relevant again, Square could milk the character for money on anything he pops on such as merchandise and DLC because his ties to Mario would make people buy it. Not saying Square would see it this way, but making money of a Mario character, even if said character is obscure, isn't something I think they'd immediately discard.

The downside of this for Nintendo is if his popularity continues beyond Smash, every Mario Kart, every mainline Mario RPG, or spin-off. Now Square's got their hands in Mario's pockets.

It's like a reverse Kingdom Hearts.

Mickey got his grubby paws in the Final Fantasy style money. Square got their buster swords, keyblades, and gunblades in Mario's platformer style money.

I'm not sure how Nintendo would feel about that. It is their flagship franchise after all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

>two people who want Sephiroth in the game over Geno agree with the logic that means Sephiroth is more likely

Hahaha what a story Mark

That’s what’s known as an ad hominem fallacy.

I want Geno over Sephiroth by a long shot, but I agree with that logic as well.

 

[childishgamgeno]

I think we are all forgetting how Square operates, they operate based on which character makes them the most revenue. They have worked with Platinum games to put 2B in Soul Calibur 6, despite having to deal with another company. We have to keep in mind in order for this to happen Bandai Namco had to deal with both Square and Platinum Games. This is a similar situation many of the S-E characters in question are in.

Also lets count how many times Square has cross promoted FF. 1) Cloud Smash Wii U, 2) Ardyn & Bahamut Assasins Creed Origins, 3) Noctis Tekken 7, 4) Behemoth Monster Hunter World

Out of all the recent cross promotions the only one that isn't FF related is 2B is Soul Calibur 6. That really says a lot on how the company operates. They choose constantly to push their most popular and most profitable franchise. This is not a coincidence and the fact they allowed 2B in Soul Calibur 6 is not either. 2B was one of the most fan requested characters for Soul Calibur, Square saw this and noticed they could cross promote off of her and so they put her in. Yes it did appease the fans, but more importantly it gave something in return to Square Enix the thing they love so much, cross promotion. You might say well Cloud did not cross promote, and Sakurai chose him not Square. To that you are correct, to an extent. When commenting which Square characters they might have chosen Sakurai mentions Terra and Bartz. Nomura states Strago would be good too, this is yet another FF character. Sakurai then mentions Fusuya, all of these characters mentioned are FF characters, they are not from Square's lesser known properties. So keep in mind Sakurai chose the FF character, this does not mean he chose Cloud from a General list of Square characters. He was allowed to choose an FF character and thats that. We see through this Square sets parameters on who can be chosen, and they are related to areas they can cross promote. Also yes Cloud did cross promote, he cross promoted the FF franchise and FF14 that was released since 2010 and has had expansions to the our current date. Also FF15 would be released less than one year later after Cloud's release date.

We can see in all these business patterns, Square thinks ahead. They find ways to make the most money, and they will jump through hoops if its means they will make more money.

Keeping this in mind, as I’ve stated before: What exactly would Sephiroth be cross promoting? The FFVII re-release on the switch? You already have Cloud, the protagonist of that game, heavily in smash? The FF Switch Releases? But isn’t...Cloud already taking that role? At least Cloud was not only cross promoting his series, but a new main FF installment.

Also note, most of Square’s cross promo guest characters are from Square games that are owned solely by Square with the exception of 2B. One of the few games with that distinction is FF, their flagship series. They broke their pattern with 2B, as you've mentioned, and also promoting an incredibly popular game.

But regarding Smash, since Cloud is already in, why would they put in ANOTHER FF character? It's not like it's more advantageous to the sales of FF if another FF rep of the same game came out as DLC promoting the same game and series as their rep already in the base game. It's already there. I don't see how people would see Sephiroth and be more inclined to buy FF as opposed to seeing Cloud. And now they have a "2B case", with a fan requested character they own on the table. And its not like theyd have to split it or negotiate with another company, similar to 2B, they would be splitting it with Nintendo, which is what they would've been doing already. Nintendo is also involved.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The downside of this for Nintendo is if his popularity continues beyond Smash, every Mario Kart, every mainline Mario RPG, or spin-off. Now Square's got their hands in Mario's pockets.

It's like a reverse Kingdom Hearts.

Mickey got his grubby paws in the Final Fantasy style money. Square got their buster swords, keyblades, and gunblades in Mario's platformer style money.

I'm not sure how Nintendo would feel about that. It is their flagship franchise after all.

Honestly I'd just hope that Square would sell Geno to Nintendo after Smash Bros.

 

[AugustusB]

Let's say Geno gets in, Nintendo learns how much it is meant that the character got in.
I bet they would see how popular he is and may consider buying the rights of SMRPG outright. Especially since Square Enix is kind of hurting for money.

Could you imagine if negotiations were for SMRPG!? Doubtful but weirder things have happened.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The downside of this for Nintendo is if his popularity continues beyond Smash, every Mario Kart, every mainline Mario RPG, or spin-off. Now Square's got their hands in Mario's pockets.

It's like a reverse Kingdom Hearts.

Mickey got his grubby paws in the Final Fantasy style money. Square got their buster swords, keyblades, and gunblades in Mario's platformer style money.

I'm not sure how Nintendo would feel about that. It is their flagship franchise after all.

You kind of have a point. But Geno isn't Mickey Mouse or Disney, he is a character that is completely owened by Square-Enix themselves and is beloved by a lot of fans, but is minor in the eyes of Square-Enix. So it wouldn't be as hard to keep him constantly around as somebody like Sora or any Disney characters.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

Honestly I'd just hope that Square would sell Geno to Nintendo after Smash Bros.

Let's say Geno gets in, Nintendo learns how much it is meant that the character got in.
I bet they would see hope popular he is and may consider buying the rights of SMRPG outright. Especially since Square Enix is kind of hurting for money.

Could you imagine if negotiations were for SMRPG!? Doubtful but weirder things have happened.

The best timeline

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

i feel like geno appeals to the purely nintendo kiddos on the playground and sephiroth would appeal to the kid who talks about his kd ratio in halo 3 on the playground (do kids in elementary school still talk about that stuff?)

Nah, I hear that most kids today talk about that annoying game of Fortnite. From my perspective, the game was never good, it's only popular because it's mainstream.

I'd rather be listening to squeakers on Halo than listen to little kids talk about how dabbing is "lit" and how Fortnite dances make you "cool". I'm taking care of my niece and I'm gonna have to get her into playing Nintendo, NOT playing Normitenite. Seriously, what the hell happened to kids these days? Back in my school days, everybody was talking about the Game Boy and DS, now it's this degenerate game for people who can't play a real game.

But if you were asking me, who would be cool... a puppet with guns or an emo guy with long hair and a sword? I'm not sure, honestly. This is why I want both of them in Smash. Sephiroth's stage sticks with Midgar and gets more music tracks, and now Geno gets a new stage and music tracks with him, as well. I'd go with this decision: get two badasses in one.

I'd even be fine with Sephiorth as a boss, and I know this is impossible, but I think it'd be even better if we got both of them as DLC.
Pinocchio's descendant and the Katakuri of Final Fantasy.

 

[Datboigeno]

Datboigeno I recognize you and I see things differently, and thats ok we are different people. I want to say that I think the way you defend Geno is admirable. It must not be easy when people are shooting down your most wanted character.

So I will say that despite all the logic we have thrown around, it is very possible it is Geno. I myself have stated many times that for the sake of Geno fans and their loyalty I hope Geno is in. While its true, many factors are against Geno. We live in a world where Ryu, Cloud, Sonic, Pacman, Megaman, Mario, and Snake are all in the same game. If I had to go back in time and tell myself this during the Melee era I wouldn't have believed it. Its true I have stated facts against Geno, but that is not because I am personally against his inclusion. I simply try to state things from a logical non wishful perspective, otherwise I would be saying Noctis is the character we are going to get. All that said, despite things looking against Geno, I agree with you it is possible he is the one Square will choose, we will just have to wait and see. And for the sake of Geno fans who have been loyal to the character I hope they do get their wish.

I feel similarly and I also agree that it is very possible the SE character is Sephiroth. I believe there are certain things against his inclusion as well. I guess my issue is that this is a Geno thread not a Sephiroth thread or a general SE thread. It oftentimes feels like (especially over the past two days now) that the thread has been co-opted by people who very obviously would prefer another character get in over Geno. I understand there is a relevant discussion to be had weighing Geno's chances against other characters. But at times it feels a little bit disingenuous that there are several people who very obviously would rather not have Geno in the game over certain other characters in a thread arguing for pages about the character they want's chances while implying they "totally support Geno too". Lettuce b cereal: Those people are in this thread because it's active as **** and where all the hot scoops. I get that. But for example, I don't see the Bandanna Dee thread filled with debates between Adeleine supporters and Bandanna Dee supporters despite her being a name being tossed around because she doesn't have a spirit. Nor are people letting the Sora thread know likely they think Geno is in comparison to Sora. It just feels inappropriate and weird at times considering this is still the Geno thread and not a more general discussion thread at least from my perspective.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Let's say Geno gets in, Nintendo learns how much it is meant that the character got in.
I bet they would see how popular he is and may consider buying the rights of SMRPG outright. Especially since Square Enix is kind of hurting for money.

Could you imagine if negotiations were for SMRPG!? Doubtful but weirder things have happened.

Tbh, looks like there's plenty of people here who would tear his own face apart if Geno gets in.

 

[valkiriforce]

mario kart 8 deluxe geno dlc

Hey this reminds me of a certain picture

 

[SmashBro99]

Tbh, looks like there's plenty of people here who would tear his own face apart if Geno gets in.

Like this?

 

[DaxMasterix]

View attachment 181477Like this?

LMAO, Accurate.

 

[Pristine]

Tbh, looks like there's plenty of people here who would tear his own face apart if Geno gets in.

Quite an ironic assumption given how civil we've been, compared to a few others, but yeah pretty sure we will.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

the fact that they didnt do young link for 3 days remaining makes me mad

Let me tell you something. I've actually been doing this with my friends, telling them how many days left and whose day it is.
Let's say there's... 22 days left, the number 22 is Young Link's number, which means it's his day. You get me?
So when there's 1 day left, it'll be Mario's day.

Oh, by the way, I love Young Link a lot better than Link.
He's actually my main in Melee and he'll be my secondary main in Ultimate.
My primary main is Mario, but if Geno gets in as DLC, Geno will be my primary main.

 

[Fatmanonice]

See, I don't see how Sephiroth wins out by a significant margin when it comes to hypothetical sales just because he's iconic. The demand for Smash just really isn't there. I believe someone posted a poll from Reddit the other day of most wanted DLC characters that had several thousand respondents. Sephiroth was bottom ten... Out of roughly 250. The guy's lucky to crack top 50 in major polls.

There's also the fact that a good chunk of the Smash cast is definitely not iconic and not a silver bullet for popularity. Ike is not a household name. Neither is Pit. What's a Lucas? If you were to break down the roster and leave just the ones gamers from 5 to 50 immediately recognized, you'd have like 5 first party franchises. Mario. Zelda. Pokemon. Donkey Kong. Kirby. Most people don't care about Falco and Olimar outside Smash. Smash is a different animal.

Here's a look at the YouTube views of the NoA 3rd party reveals for Smash 4. These are the views in millions.

Megaman: 3.7
Bayonetta: 2.6
Cloud: 1.6
Pac-Man: 1.4
Ryu: 1

For third parties it pretty much follows a perfect chain of hierarchy of characters wanted in the Smash series. Ryu is Mr. Fighting Games and is dead last and they ironically had to sandwich him with two Japanese exclusive and previously cut characters to get Smash fans to care . Pac-Man is the face of classic arcade games and second to last. Bayonetta has literally two games and doesn't even crack SEGA's top ten best selling franchises is in second. Bayo isn't even the top icon of her respective genre, most people would say it's Dante. Didn't stop her from technically winning the Smash Ballot.

One of the big takeaways from this is that Smash fans aren't inherently star struck because characters are iconic. Most just want what they want. K. Rool's not iconic. There was literally no reason to bring in Chrom, Daisy, or Dark Samus outside fan demand. Ice Climbers, Young Link, and Pichu could have stayed in the Shadow Realm if it were based on people outside the Smash fandom. Japanese fans have been very loud about how Ridley and Little Mac were Western picks. I don't think how iconic a character is a good parameter at how much the Smash fanbase wants something.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Pinocchio's descendant and the Katakuri of Final Fantasy.

I got a fellow Strawhat in the house.

 

[Datboigeno]

See, I don't see how Sephiroth wins out by a significant margin when it comes to hypothetical sales just because he's iconic. The demand for Smash just really isn't there. I believe someone posted a poll from Reddit the other day of most wanted DLC characters that had several thousand respondents. Sephiroth was bottom ten... Out of roughly 250. The guy's lucky to crack top 50 in major polls.

There's also the fact that a good chunk of the Smash cast is definitely not iconic and not a silver bullet for popularity. Ike is not a household name. Neither is Pit. What's a Lucas? If you were to break down the roster and leave just the ones gamers from 5 to 50 immediately recognized, you'd have like 5 first party franchises. Mario. Zelda. Pokemon. Donkey Kong. Kirby. Most people don't care about Falco and Olimar outside Smash. Smash is a different animal.

Here's a look at the YouTube views of the NoA 3rd party reveals for Smash 4. These are the views in millions.

Megaman: 3.7
Bayonetta: 2.6
Cloud: 1.6
Pac-Man: 1.4
Ryu: 1

For third parties it pretty much follows a perfect chain of hierarchy of characters wanted in the Smash series. Ryu is Mr. Fighting Games and is dead last and they ironically had to sandwich him with two Japanese exclusive and previously cut characters to get Smash fans to care . Pac-Man is the face of classic arcade games and second to last. Bayonetta has literally two games and doesn't even crack SEGA's top ten best selling franchises is in second. Bayo isn't even the top icon of her respective genre, most people would say it's Dante. Didn't stop her from technically winning the Smash Ballot.

One of the big takeaways from this is that Smash fans aren't inherently star struck because characters are iconic. Most just want what they want. K. Rool's not iconic. There was literally no reason to bring in Chrom, Daisy, or Dark Samus outside fan demand. Ice Climbers, Young Link, and Pichu could have stayed in the Shadow Realm if it were based on people outside the Smash fandom. Japanese fans have been very loud about how Ridley and Little Mac were Western picks. I don't think how iconic a character is a good parameter at how much the Smash fanbase wants something.

Yep, my thoughts exactly and without a weird Mickey Mouse analogy no less!

 

[Pristine]

See, I don't see how Sephiroth wins out by a significant margin when it comes to hypothetical sales just because he's iconic. The demand for Smash just really isn't there. I believe someone posted a poll from Reddit the other day of most wanted DLC characters that had several thousand respondents. Sephiroth was bottom ten... Out of roughly 250. The guy's lucky to crack top 50 in major polls.

There's also the fact that a good chunk of the Smash cast is definitely not iconic and not a silver bullet for popularity. Ike is not a household name. Neither is Pit. What's a Lucas? If you were to break down the roster and leave just the ones gamers from 5 to 50 immediately recognized, you'd have like 5 first party franchises. Mario. Zelda. Pokemon. Donkey Kong. Kirby. Most people don't care about Falco and Olimar outside Smash. Smash is a different animal.

Here's a look at the YouTube views of the NoA 3rd party reveals for Smash 4. These are the views in millions.

Megaman: 3.7
Bayonetta: 2.6
Cloud: 1.6
Pac-Man: 1.4
Ryu: 1

For third parties it pretty much follows a perfect chain of hierarchy of characters wanted in the Smash series. Ryu is Mr. Fighting Games and is dead last and they ironically had to sandwich him with two Japanese exclusive and previously cut characters to get Smash fans to care . Pac-Man is the face of classic arcade games and second to last. Bayonetta has literally two games and doesn't even crack SEGA's top ten best selling franchises is in second. Bayo isn't even the top icon of her respective genre, most people would say it's Dante. Didn't stop her from technically winning the Smash Ballot.

One of the big takeaways from this is that Smash fans aren't inherently star struck because characters are iconic. Most just want what they want. K. Rool's not iconic. There was literally no reason to bring in Chrom, Daisy, or Dark Samus outside fan demand. Ice Climbers, Young Link, and Pichu could have stayed in the Shadow Realm if it were based on people outside the Smash fandom. Japanese fans have been very loud about how Ridley and Little Mac were Western picks. I don't think how iconic a character is a good parameter at how much the Smash fanbase wants something.

Yes but like A.G.L has been saying, they do not always look into sales, it's more or less promoting the characters that SE is fond of. And bringing Chrom/Daisy, etc is a notion relative to how Nintendo chooses to market towards their audience, seeing as Nintendo is more ballot oriented nowadays as opposed to SE being more keen on money/special attachment towards certain characters. Of course that's not to say that the demand will not influence SE decision but simply looking at ballots is certainly not the way to go (and lets not forget that Nintendo is the person of interest, so despite it being a Nintendo/Sakurai game, they still need to be submissive to what Square may decide to use as it's current marketing tactic.)

 

[MajoraMan28]

Let me tell you something. I've actually been doing this with my friends, telling them how many days left and whose day it is.
Let's say there's... 22 days left, the number 22 is Young Link's number, which means it's his day. You get me?
So when there's 1 day left, it'll be Mario's day.

Oh, by the way, I love Young Link a lot better than Link.
He's actually my main in Melee and he'll be my secondary main in Ultimate.
My primary main is Mario, but if Geno gets in as DLC, Geno will be my primary main.

You have good taste sir

 

[Midget Master]

Fatmanonice Are you still planning on doing that big ol' writeup you were talking about yesterday? Been looking forward to reading over that with a snack and some Hmm's.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

One day people will realize that the demographic that is going to be playing the game past christmas actually matters

 

[ForsakenM]

Imagine making a whole post trying to clarify things for people who are already up to date on said information/accusing someone else of misinformation and then spreading misinformation in your own post. Amazing.

Imagine being so arrogant and obstinate that you can barely function without making some belligerent or obnoxious post trying to get someone's goat. Also, I got this from Discord PMs just earlier today and I'm sorry but I'm not going to read through 51 pages of posts to make sure what I was told today hasn't been covered already. You don't mean enough to me for that, sorry bud. As far as what I was told goes, there is no misinformation in my post, so nice try on that one bud.
----

On a more positive note, the info I have which has likely been put here already hints at Nintendo not doing much Smash-related at the VGAs, but rather possibly focusing on another upcoming title. That doesn't rule anything out of course, just makes it less likely.

Also, my top DLC picks are:

1. Geno
2. Banjo
3. Rayman
4. BWD
5. Monster Hunter/Leon Kennedy

This is based both on who I want and who I think we can still get. If it was all wants, Waluigi, Isaac and Goemon would be three, four and five on this list.

 

[paper roxy]

Katakuri of Final Fantasy

i don't know how i feel about katakuri being compared to sephiroth and i dont like the emotions its making me feel

 

[Luigi The President]

Yes but like A.G.L has been saying, they do not always look into sales, it's more or less promoting the characters that SE is fond of. And bringing Chrom/Daisy, etc is a notion relative to how Nintendo chooses to market towards their audience, seeing as Nintendo is more ballot oriented nowadays as opposed to SE being more keen on money/special attachment towards certain characters. Of course that's not to say that the demand will not influence SE decision but simply looking at ballots is certainly not the way to go (and lets not forget that Nintendo is the person of interest, so despite it being a Nintendo/Sakurai game, they still need to be submissive to what Square may decide to use as it's current marketing tactic.

Nintendo does not at all need to be submissive. We keep neglecting the Nintendo factor here.

If Nintendo wants Geno and are offered Seph, probably aren't gonna take Seph. They'd just take no one. They're not obligated to have another Squenix rep.
Swap those 2 names out for any other of the 7, my point stands.

 

[G0nard]

Japanese fans have been very loud about how Ridley and Little Mac were Western picks. I don't think how iconic a character is a good parameter at how much the Smash fanbase wants something.

For some reason this bothers me, I know the Japanese have been calling Ridley "Captain America" But Ridley has had a few votes from Japanese Smash polls. Its just something that feels.....OFF to me I guess

 

[Midget Master]

For some reason this bothers me, I know the Japanese have been calling Ridley "Captain America" But Ridley has had a few votes from Japanese Smash polls. Its just something that feels.....OFF to me I guess

It's not as if everyone over there thinks alike. It's the same here, I'd assume not EVERYBODY wanted Ridley... No doubt there's a similar subset of anti-Waddle Dee fans in the east.

 

[AugustusB]

I feel similarly and I also agree that it is very possible the SE character is Sephiroth. I believe there are certain things against his inclusion as well. I guess my issue is that this is a Geno thread not a Sephiroth thread or a general SE thread. It oftentimes feels like (especially over the past two days now) that the thread has been co-opted by people who very obviously would prefer another character get in over Geno. I understand there is a relevant discussion to be had weighing Geno's chances against other characters. But at times it feels a little bit disingenuous that there are several people who very obviously would rather not have Geno in the game over certain other characters in a thread arguing for pages about the character they want's chances while implying they "totally support Geno too". Lettuce b cereal: Those people are in this thread because it's active as **** and where all the hot scoops. I get that. But for example, I don't see the Bandanna Dee thread filled with debates between Adeleine supporters and Bandanna Dee supporters despite her being a name being tossed around because she doesn't have a spirit. Nor are people letting the Sora thread know likely they think Geno is in comparison to Sora. It just feels inappropriate and weird at times considering this is still the Geno thread and not a more general discussion thread at least from my perspective.

As it stands, I do not think this will change for some time until the Square Rep is shown in all their glory. Yes, there has been discussions of I think X makes sense, but I can see Geno too going around, but a lot of it has been in good play with those of the Geno Thread and those who came here to test our resolve (So to speak)
And I think we have been doing awesome in keeping our resolve, but also being pleasant about it.

Yes there are a couple of trolls from time to time, but that's life. Now we could go into other threads and troll as well, but we are proving to be better than that and I expect this to continue.

This has been a pretty chill time and we shall continue this, yes? Here's to when DLC is shown!

 

[Nekoo]

For some reason this bothers me, I know the Japanese have been calling Ridley "Captain America" But Ridley has had a few votes from Japanese Smash polls. Its just something that feels.....OFF to me I guess

Something something, gotta look outside of the "smash bubble" sometimes.
Fan polls are our best way to judge the popularity of a characters WITHIIN the demographic of the Hardcore Smash community.
However, it doesn't reflect the general and more "casual" opinion.
Ridley maybe got multiple votes in Japanse Fan polls, but when it comes for the general demographic they didn't really cared that much? Who knows.

That's why I feels DLC will be a mix of both Fan demands, and general Appeals.
Hopefully they go for Fan demands for Geno this time!

 

[Pristine]

Nintendo does not at all need to be submissive. We keep neglecting the Nintendo factor here.

If Nintendo wants Geno and are offered Seph, probably aren't gonna take Seph. They'd just take no one. They're not obligated to have another Squenix rep.
Swap those 2 names out for any other of the 7, my point stands.

Well, one could say that out of courtesy for Enix porting over FFs/handing out more rights for Geno and Mallow (despite SE being its greedy self), not to mention demand for Geno, they'd probably feel obligated to accept some sort of proposition from SE. But yeah, relatively speaking, they are not legally nor miscellaneously obligated in any way to SE. And let's not forget Nintendo can be greedy themselves (much lesser extent that Square but still relevant enough to consider), so both sides are as tantalizing as they come.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Nintendo does not at all need to be submissive. We keep neglecting the Nintendo factor here.

If Nintendo wants Geno and are offered Seph, probably aren't gonna take Seph. They'd just take no one. They're not obligated to have another Squenix rep.
Swap those 2 names out for any other of the 7, my point stands.

While I understand that this is a hypothetical, Nintendo refusing Sephiroth if SE offers to them will be one of the dumbest moves Nintendo has ever made. Not even Konami and Capcom are that crazy.

Here's to hoping the potential SE character gets announced at the VGA even though may seem a bit unlikely.

 

[MattX20]

Just 20 pages left to 500...can we make it there before VGA on Thursday?

 

[Luigi The President]

Well, one could say that out of courtesy for Enix porting over FFs/handing out more rights for Geno and Mallow (despite SE being its greedy self), not to mention demand for Geno, they'd probably feel obligated to accept some sort of proposition from SE. But yeah, relatively speaking, they are not legally nor miscellaneously obligated to SE. And let's not forget Nintendo can be greedy themselves (much lesser extent that Square but still relevant enough to consider), so both sides are as tantalizing as they come.

Except they...probably wouldn't?
Literally just business. Nintendo allows SE ports onto their platforms. Why do they need to do any favors for SE?
They don't.

 

[EarlTamm]

As it stands, I do not think this will change for some time until the Square Rep is shown in all their glory. Yes, there has been discussions of I think X makes sense, but I can see Geno too going around, but a lot of it has been in good play with those of the Geno Thread and those who came here to test our resolve (So to speak)
And I think we have been doing awesome in keeping our resolve, but also being pleasant about it.

Yes there are a couple of trolls from time to time, but that's life. Now we could go into other threads and troll as well, but we are proving to be better than that and I expect this to continue.

This has been a pretty chill time and we shall continue this, yes? Here's to when DLC is shown!

I feel like this sums up much of the Geno thread quite well at this point.

 

[waterhasataste]

The downside of this for Nintendo is if his popularity continues beyond Smash, every Mario Kart, every mainline Mario RPG, or spin-off. Now Square's got their hands in Mario's pockets.

It's like a reverse Kingdom Hearts.

Mickey got his grubby paws in the Final Fantasy style money. Square got their buster swords, keyblades, and gunblades in Mario's platformer style money.

I'm not sure how Nintendo would feel about that. It is their flagship franchise after all.

This is a good point, but then again, Square would only be getting money from Mario if the characters they own are included. They don't partially own Mario, they just own some characters that have connections to it. Nintendo still has full control on whether or not they wanna include Geno or any Mario RPG Character in any game. Square really can't force them to include him in Mario Kart for example if Nintendo doesn't feel like it. Square can annoy them and try to convince them to do so, but they can't force Nintendo to shove him in. That's still mainly on Nintendo's call. However the fact that Square could exploit this is definitely something that could make Nintendo feel iffy about Geno.

 

[Pristine]

Except they...probably wouldn't?
Literally just business. Nintendo allows SE ports onto their platforms. Why do they need to do any favors for SE?
They don't.

Obviously to establish a more firm relationship? Why wouldn't Nintendo want to remake a SMRPG game/mayhaps be part of future FF games?
Like you said, its literally just business lol.

 

[Datboigeno]

Yes but like A.G.L has been saying, they do not always look into sales, it's more or less promoting the characters that SE is fond of. And bringing Chrom/Daisy, etc is a notion relative to how Nintendo chooses to market towards their audience, seeing as Nintendo is more ballot oriented nowadays as opposed to SE being more keen on money/special attachment towards certain characters. Of course that's not to say that the demand will not influence SE decision but simply looking at ballots is certainly not the way to go (and lets not forget that Nintendo is the person of interest, so despite it being a Nintendo/Sakurai game, they still need to be submissive to what Square may decide to use as it's current marketing tactic.)

That's literally not what he was saying though. He said:
"I think we are all forgetting how Square operates, they operate based on which character makes them the most revenue. "
And the rest of his post followed that logic. Also, SE looking at the ballot to see which character is more popular makes more sense from a financial perspective than not especially given Fatmanonice 's points regarding requested characters and popularity.

 

[MajoraMan28]

See, I don't see how Sephiroth wins out by a significant margin when it comes to hypothetical sales just because he's iconic. The demand for Smash just really isn't there. I believe someone posted a poll from Reddit the other day of most wanted DLC characters that had several thousand respondents. Sephiroth was bottom ten... Out of roughly 250. The guy's lucky to crack top 50 in major polls.

There's also the fact that a good chunk of the Smash cast is definitely not iconic and not a silver bullet for popularity. Ike is not a household name. Neither is Pit. What's a Lucas? If you were to break down the roster and leave just the ones gamers from 5 to 50 immediately recognized, you'd have like 5 first party franchises. Mario. Zelda. Pokemon. Donkey Kong. Kirby. Most people don't care about Falco and Olimar outside Smash. Smash is a different animal.

Here's a look at the YouTube views of the NoA 3rd party reveals for Smash 4. These are the views in millions.

Megaman: 3.7
Bayonetta: 2.6
Cloud: 1.6
Pac-Man: 1.4
Ryu: 1

For third parties it pretty much follows a perfect chain of hierarchy of characters wanted in the Smash series. Ryu is Mr. Fighting Games and is dead last and they ironically had to sandwich him with two Japanese exclusive and previously cut characters to get Smash fans to care . Pac-Man is the face of classic arcade games and second to last. Bayonetta has literally two games and doesn't even crack SEGA's top ten best selling franchises is in second. Bayo isn't even the top icon of her respective genre, most people would say it's Dante. Didn't stop her from technically winning the Smash Ballot.

One of the big takeaways from this is that Smash fans aren't inherently star struck because characters are iconic. Most just want what they want. K. Rool's not iconic. There was literally no reason to bring in Chrom, Daisy, or Dark Samus outside fan demand. Ice Climbers, Young Link, and Pichu could have stayed in the Shadow Realm if it were based on people outside the Smash fandom. Japanese fans have been very loud about how Ridley and Little Mac were Western picks. I don't think how iconic a character is a good parameter at how much the Smash fanbase wants something.

Yes and no. I think they look into the fanbase of all regions and also consider the importance and relevancy to certain characters in their respective franchises, even if they didn't appear recently. I think that critical reception and impact of the original series is also a huge factor to consider. I think this, above all else, is what defines the character they choose.