Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Luigi The President]

Obviously to establish a more firm relationship? Why wouldn't Nintendo want to remake a SMRPG game/mayhaps be part of future FF games?
Like you said, its literally just business lol.

They're establishing a more form relationship by helping Squenix port their games onto the Switch.
Potentially helping a relationship along the way by adding Sephiroth is a much bigger move then you make it out to be.

 

[SmashChu]

I think we are all forgetting how Square operates, they operate based on which character makes them the most revenue. They have worked with Platinum games to put 2B in Soul Calibur 6, despite having to deal with another company. We have to keep in mind in order for this to happen Bandai Namco had to deal with both Square and Platinum Games. This is a similar situation many of the S-E characters in question are in.

Also lets count how many times Square has cross promoted FF. 1) Cloud Smash Wii U, 2) Ardyn & Bahamut Assasins Creed Origins, 3) Noctis Tekken 7, 4) Behemoth Monster Hunter World

Out of all the recent cross promotions the only one that isn't FF related is 2B is Soul Calibur 6. That really says a lot on how the company operates. They choose constantly to push their most popular and most profitable franchise. This is not a coincidence and the fact they allowed 2B in Soul Calibur 6 is not either. 2B was one of the most fan requested characters for Soul Calibur, Square saw this and noticed they could cross promote off of her and so they put her in. Yes it did appease the fans, but more importantly it gave something in return to Square Enix the thing they love so much, cross promotion. You might say well Cloud did not cross promote, and Sakurai chose him not Square. To that you are correct, to an extent. When commenting which Square characters they might have chosen Sakurai mentions Terra and Bartz. Nomura states Strago would be good too, this is yet another FF character. Sakurai then mentions Fusuya, all of these characters mentioned are FF characters, they are not from Square's lesser known properties. So keep in mind Sakurai chose the FF character, this does not mean he chose Cloud from a General list of Square characters. He was allowed to choose an FF character and thats that. We see through this Square sets parameters on who can be chosen, and they are related to areas they can cross promote. Also yes Cloud did cross promote, he cross promoted the FF franchise and FF14 that was released since 2010 and has had expansions to the our current date. Also FF15 would be released less than one year later after Cloud's release date.

We can see in all these business patterns, Square thinks ahead. They find ways to make the most money, and they will jump through hoops if its means they will make more money.

Do you have a link for this. Haven't heard this anywhere before,

 

[Datboigeno]

Imagine being so arrogant and obstinate that you can barely function without making some belligerent or obnoxious post trying to get someone's goat. Also, I got this from Discord PMs just earlier today and I'm sorry but I'm not going to read through 51 pages of posts to make sure what I was told today hasn't been covered already. You don't mean enough to me for that, sorry bud. As far as what I was told goes, there is no misinformation in my post, so nice try on that one bud.
----

On a more positive note, the info I have which has likely been put here already hints at Nintendo not doing much Smash-related at the VGAs, but rather possibly focusing on another upcoming title. That doesn't rule anything out of course, just makes it less likely.

Also, my top DLC picks are:

1. Geno
2. Banjo
3. Rayman
4. BWD
5. Monster Hunter/Leon Kennedy

This is based both on who I want and who I think we can still get. If it was all wants, Waluigi, Isaac and Goemon would be three, four and five on this list.

Yikes!

 

[Nekoo]

Except they...probably wouldn't?
Literally just business. Nintendo allows SE ports onto their platforms. Why do they need to do any favors for SE?
They don't.

Doing favor is Business in the industry though.
This whole things is a circular argument tbvh.
Both sides have have their points, they're both valids.
Nintendo want Geno? They'll try to get Geno.
Square doesn't want to give them Geno as a playable characters? Nintendo get nothing.
Nintendo want ****ing Slime?
Square can refuse and propose Crono instead
Nintendo can also refuse.


All characters on that list, you can make a S+ cases on why should they be in Smash, with the only counter argument being 99% "Muh licencing"

That's why that list is both genius AND Stupid.

It's Genius, because all of those characters are worthy AND should be in Smash.
It's Stupid because 6 out of 7 have the same Issue being licencing.

The only way we'll know the truth will be when that damn character get revealed or if big informations get revealed/leaked

 

[Luigi The President]

Doing favor is Business in the industry though.
This whole things is a circular argument tbvh.
Both sides have have their points, they're both valids.
Nintendo want Geno? They'll try to get Geno.
Square doesn't want to give them Geno as a playable characters? Nintendo get nothing.
Nintendo want ****ing Slime?
Square can refuse and propose Crono instead
Nintendo can also refuse.


All characters on that list, you can make a S+ cases on why should they be in Smash, with the only counter argument being 99% "Muh licencing"

That's why that list is both genius AND Stupid.

It's Genius, because all of those characters are worthy AND should be in Smash.
It's Stupid because 6 out of 7 have the same Issue being licencing.

The only way we'll know the truth will be when that damn character get revealed or if big informations get revealed/leaked

Well I mean
Not to start anything
But

You really telling me Luminary is worthy and should be in Smash Nek?

Besides that though, yeah, I can't take this anymore lmao.

 

[Pristine]

That's literally not what he was saying though. He said:
"I think we are all forgetting how Square operates, they operate based on which character makes them the most revenue. "
And the rest of his post followed that logic. Also, SE looking at the ballot to see which character is more popular makes more sense from a financial perspective than not especially given Fatmanonice 's points regarding requested characters and popularity.

Yeah got ahead of myself there. While that may be a valid point, one needs to consider that Geno doesn't even have any upcoming projects, or anything apart from a spirit confirmed atm. Not denying that Geno would make massive money, but SE really needs to look a more long term view, promoting FF7 port and remake with Sephiroth is not a bad move, at all. But like I said, Geno can also garner enough money but doesn't necessarily have a solid future.

 

[Nekoo]

Well I mean
Not to start anything
But

You really telling me Luminary is worthy and should be in Smash Nek?

Besides that though, yeah, I can't take this anymore lmao.

The fact that it's from Dragon Quest, the Grandfather of JRPG is enough of a case, like, you don't even need to add more. Case on point. Dragon Quest invented 100% of the code of JRPG, and was once the Rival of Final Fantasy.

Beside, from the sounds of it, it seems we might get a "Robin/Olimar and Alf/Villager" case. Where Luminary AND Erdrick are sharing a spot

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yes but like A.G.L has been saying, they do not always look into sales, it's more or less promoting the characters that SE is fond of. And bringing Chrom/Daisy, etc is a notion relative to how Nintendo chooses to market towards their audience, seeing as Nintendo is more ballot oriented nowadays as opposed to SE being more keen on money/special attachment towards certain characters. Of course that's not to say that the demand will not influence SE decision but simply looking at ballots is certainly not the way to go (and lets not forget that Nintendo is the person of interest, so despite it being a Nintendo/Sakurai game, they still need to be submissive to what Square may decide to use as it's current marketing tactic.)

Alright, to switch gears, this doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint. If the argument is more brand (Square Enix) recognition, Sephiroth doesn't achieve this. Sephiroth is isolated to Final Fantasy (along with Kingdom Hearts but, ya know, that Sora guy and all) which Cloud already represents. From this point of view, you're basically just going towards brand saturation, not expansion. Brand expansion would be promoting other series. Sephiroth is just more Final Fantasy. Square Enix is more than just Final Fantasy. From a marketing perspective, it's putting all your eggs in one basket. This philosophy can be theoretically seen with all the other third parties in Smash. Konami is Metal Gear and Castlevania. SEGA is Sonic and Bayonetta. Capcom is Megaman and Street Fighter. Even Pac-Man is a one man band because his moves represent more than 20 classic Namco arcade games altogether. By adding Sephiroth, under this train of thought, they're mostly just catering to Final Fantasy VII fans, a very specific demographic. They're not reaching across the aisle to anything new, just expanding on what's already established. This isn't a bad thing but if you have, for example, Capcom adding more Megaman and Street Fighter content to strengthen and expand their respective brands, Square Enix then has a lot of catching up to do.

 

[waterhasataste]

Nintendo does not at all need to be submissive. We keep neglecting the Nintendo factor here.

If Nintendo wants Geno and are offered Seph, probably aren't gonna take Seph. They'd just take no one. They're not obligated to have another Squenix rep.
Swap those 2 names out for any other of the 7, my point stands.

Well the thing is, if part of the deal to keep Cloud in the base roster was to give Square another DLC rep, then they'd have no choice but to take another character even if it isn't exactly who'd they want the most. In this scenario they would be obligated to have another Square rep.

 

[EarlTamm]

Yeah got ahead of myself there. While that may be a valid point, one needs to consider that Geno doesn't even have any upcoming projects, or anything apart from a spirit confirmed atm. Not denying that Geno would make massive money, but SE really needs to look a more long term view, promoting FF7 port and remake with Sephiroth is not a bad move, at all. But like I said, Geno can also garner enough money but doesn't necessarily have a solid future.

But couldn't they use a Geno DLC to make said future? Right now Geno is worthless to them, but if they can make something out of him and use that new recognition to jump start some Nintendo related projects, then that would be something good in the long term.

 

[Datboigeno]

Yeah got ahead of myself there. While that may be a valid point, one needs to consider that Geno doesn't even have any upcoming projects, or anything apart from a spirit confirmed atm. Not denying that Geno would make massive money, but SE really needs to look a more long term view, promoting FF7 port and remake with Sephiroth is not a bad move, at all. But like I said, Geno can also garner enough money but doesn't necessarily have a solid future.

But that logic hinges on the assumption that we won't be getting anything SMRPG related in the future and considering the new partnership between SE and Nintendo and SE having stated they're interesting in reviving old properties we can't dismiss the possibility that they may choose Geno if they have something SMRPG related in the works.

 

[Nekoo]

But that logic hinges on the assumption that we won't be getting anything SMRPG related in the future and considering the new partnership between SE and Nintendo and SE having stated they're interesting in reviving old properties we can't dismiss the possibility that they may choose Geno if they have something SMRPG related in the works.

To be fair, that whole ordeal is mostly made of assumption for both side

 

[Datboigeno]

To be fair, that whole ordeal is mostly made of assumption for both side

Very true. I'm just saying the main reason why Geno had been a non-entity for decades is because of the bad relationship between SE and Nintendo. If that relationship is as mended as it seems to be then I don't think Geno having a possible future can be as automatically discounted as it could even a few years ago.

 

[Nekoo]

Should just make a 7 characters pass, Square-Enix edition, and add everyone on that list.

 

[Pristine]

Alright, to switch gears, this doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint. If the argument is more brand (Square Enix) recognition, Sephiroth doesn't achieve this. Sephiroth is isolated to Final Fantasy (along with Kingdom Hearts but, ya know, that Sora guy and all) which Cloud already represents. From this point of view, you're basically just going towards brand saturation, not expansion. Brand expansion would be promoting other series. Sephiroth is just more Final Fantasy. Square Enix is more than just Final Fantasy. From a marketing perspective, it's putting all your eggs in one basket. This philosophy can be theoretically seen with all the other third parties in Smash. Konami is Metal Gear and Castlevania. SEGA is Sonic and Bayonetta. Capcom is Megaman and Street Fighter. Even Pac-Man is a one man band because his moves represent more than 20 classic Namco arcade games altogether. By adding Sephiroth, under this train of thought, they're mostly just catering to Final Fantasy VII fans, a very specific demographic. They're not reaching across the aisle to anything new, just expanding on what's already established. This isn't a bad thing but if you have, for example, Capcom adding more Megaman and Street Fighter content to strengthen and expand their respective brands, Square Enix then has a lot of catching up to do.

I see what you mean, but what exactly could Geno expand upon if he has, relatively speaking, no series and is practically at a dead end until further notice? It's not like SE has much of a choice either, (aside from DQ,) SE can't really promote anything due to legal ramifications they may not even want to bother with/as much as Sakurai wouldn't. They're practically forced to saturate FF out of all their franchise considering it's their biggest, possesses least legal ramifications, and has upcoming projects for arguably the most successful FF since everything else aside from Geno poses various conundrums. Otherwise yes, your point would have a near irrefutable premise.

 

[owjies]

Yeah got ahead of myself there. While that may be a valid point, one needs to consider that Geno doesn't even have any upcoming projects, or anything apart from a spirit confirmed atm. Not denying that Geno would make massive money, but SE really needs to look a more long term view, promoting FF7 port and remake with Sephiroth is not a bad move, at all. But like I said, Geno can also garner enough money but doesn't necessarily have a solid future.

That may be true given the information that we have at our disposal and Square's history with Geno and Mario RPG, but I think it's important to remember that we don't have all the answers. We don't know what other games or partnerships are in the works. Nintendo and Square are starting to work together more than in recent decades, and it seems that Square finds the Switch console particularly suitable for classic JRPG games. Not saying Mario RPG 2/HD is coming by any means, but I'm leaving my mind open to surprises. We have Chrono Trigger's director working on a yet unannounced game for the Switch, so that alone could suddenly answer a lot of questions. VGAs?

 

[Pristine]

But that logic hinges on the assumption that we won't be getting anything SMRPG related in the future and considering the new partnership between SE and Nintendo and SE having stated they're interesting in reviving old properties we can't dismiss the possibility that they may choose Geno if they have something SMRPG related in the works.

Oh yes, definitely. All in all, Geno does have that power now and I wouldn't doubt that at all. Seeing how immensely close this is, it all ends up to whether SE wants to promote a strong, preexisting series or renew one.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Alright, to switch gears, this doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint. If the argument is more brand (Square Enix) recognition, Sephiroth doesn't achieve this. Sephiroth is isolated to Final Fantasy (along with Kingdom Hearts but, ya know, that Sora guy and all) which Cloud already represents. From this point of view, you're basically just going towards brand saturation, not expansion. Brand expansion would be promoting other series. Sephiroth is just more Final Fantasy. Square Enix is more than just Final Fantasy. From a marketing perspective, it's putting all your eggs in one basket. This philosophy can be theoretically seen with all the other third parties in Smash. Konami is Metal Gear and Castlevania. SEGA is Sonic and Bayonetta. Capcom is Megaman and Street Fighter. Even Pac-Man is a one man band because his moves represent more than 20 classic Namco arcade games altogether. By adding Sephiroth, under this train of thought, they're mostly just catering to Final Fantasy VII fans, a very specific demographic. They're not reaching across the aisle to anything new, just expanding on what's already established. This isn't a bad thing but if you have, for example, Capcom adding more Megaman and Street Fighter content to strengthen and expand their respective brands, Square Enix then has a lot of catching up to do.

The only thing I see if S-E took the FF route is that they were approached to expand the FF content in the game bc of how little there were in the previous game and S-E wanted to add it by selling it with an extra character. It's more mending the holes that were left open with more content that they would get more revenue if they went the DLC route rather than base game stuff. This is why I think S-E having two reps isn't far-fetched. Bc I think it is in their best interest to expand the little FF content there is in the game, while promoting another big icon of theirs.

 

[Luigi The President]

Miss the days where Geno and Sora coming together in base game seemed like a real possibility.

 

[Nekoo]

Miss the days where Geno and Sora coming together in base game seemed like a real possibility.

You mean the what? 2 days?
Me too.

 

[Luigi The President]

You mean the what? 2 days?
Me too.

Well hey...that's more than one day :")

 

[Ezclapper]

Miss the days where Geno and Sora coming together in base game seemed like a real possibility.

I am just in denial about Sora probably not being in the game. I hope for Geno fans that Geno gets in if its not Sora because they both deserve to be in the game. I really do

 

[Datboigeno]

Miss the days where Geno and Sora coming together in base game seemed like a real possibility.

I remember discussing with people online how sure we were that Geno was going to be in the base game after Ridley was announced. If only we knew how bad things really were.

 

[Kektendo]

Hold it.

> Mario is a big name IP

> Geno is a Mario character

We're getting Geno in Smash along with a new Fortune Street ft. Geno.

And Mario Sports Mix 2 with Geno

 

[Nekoo]

I remember discussing with people online how sure we were that Geno was going to be in the base game after Ridley was announced. If only we knew how bad things really were.

I feel ****ty because it was known ever since July/August that Geno wasn't in at all for base game for people with info-
Trust me. It did hurt a lot to see y'all discuss him, or discuss in the general about him, knowing he wouldn't be in

 

[Luigi The President]

I feel ****ty because it was known ever since July/August that Geno wasn't in at all for base game for people with info-
Trust me. It did hurt a lot to see y'all discuss him, or discuss in the general about him, knowing he wouldn't be in

And now we're right back on the train for DLC :")

:"")

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Geno and Sora both deserve to be in smash, and it sucks that it feels like it's one or the other.

I really hope it's not Sephiroth instead of these two no offense to Sephiroth fans but yeesh talk about priorities being out of order

 

[Nekoo]

And now we're right back on the train for DLC :")

:"")

We can't even agree on ONE characters out of 7 for A SINGLE SPOT OUT OF FIVE

Whoever will really leak the Square-Enix Rep will be both the beacon of Hope and the Slayer of dreams of So so soooo many peoples.

 

[Luigi The President]

We can't even agree on ONE characters out of 7 for A SINGLE SPOT OUT OF FIVE

Whoever will really leak the Square-Enix Rep will be both the beacon of Hope and the Slayer of dreams of So so soooo many peoples.

At least Geno isn't deconfirmed this time yet.

As far as we know.

Hoping you're not just holding off on breaking my heart Nek.

 

[Nekoo]

At least Geno isn't deconfirmed this time yet.

As far as we know.

Hoping you're not just holding off on breaking my heart Nek.

Nah, no one knows the Square-Enix rep as of now I think
The only thing I had was the 4 names I heard back in October/November being:
Geno/Sora/DQ hero (no game name) and Crono.

 

[owjies]

We can't even agree on ONE characters out of 7 for A SINGLE SPOT OUT OF FIVE

Whoever will really leak the Square-Enix Rep will be both the beacon of Hope and the Slayer of dreams of So so soooo many peoples.

If only Square knew how badly people want their characters in Smash. It's such a silly missed opportunity to be so stingy.

 

[Ezclapper]

We can't even agree on ONE characters out of 7 for A SINGLE SPOT OUT OF FIVE

Whoever will really leak the Square-Enix Rep will be both the beacon of Hope and the Slayer of dreams of So so soooo many peoples.

To be honest, I don't think the rep is ever going to be leaked. The only way I see it actually being leaked is by Tansut because he leaked Cloud, and i'm guessing he has a very reliable source of some kind.

 

[Nekoo]

If only Square knew how badly people want their characters in Smash. It's such a silly missed opportunity to be so stingy.

Square: *See opportunity to get Easy money*
Also Square: *Be as Stingy as a bee and miss the easy Money.*

They're playing 4D chess here.

 

[Luigi The President]

Nah, no one knows the Square-Enix rep as of now I think
The only thing I had was the 4 names I heard back in October/November being:
Geno/Sora/DQ hero (no game name) and Crono.

Weird question I'm not sure if I can phrase right;

Do you think the timing of hearing these characters has to do with anything? Like...makes them less or more likely?

 

[Fatmanonice]

The only thing I see if S-E took the FF route is that they were approached to expand the FF content in the game bc of how little there were in the previous game and S-E wanted to add it by selling it with an extra character. It's more mending the holes that were left open with more content that they would get more revenue if they went the DLC route rather than base game stuff. This is why I think S-E having two reps isn't far-fetched. Bc I think it is in their best interest to expand the little FF content there is in the game, while promoting another big icon of theirs.

I see what you mean, but what exactly could Geno expand upon if he has, relatively speaking, no series and is practically at a dead end until further notice? It's not like SE has much of a choice either, (aside from DQ,) SE can't really promote anything due to legal ramifications they may not even want to bother with/as much as Sakurai wouldn't. They're practically forced to saturate FF out of all their franchise considering it's their biggest, possesses least legal ramifications, and has upcoming projects for arguably the most successful FF since everything else aside from Geno poses various conundrums. Otherwise yes, your point would have a near irrefutable premise.

Mario X Square is definitely a thing. Mario Hoops 3 on 3, Fortune Steet, Mario Sports Mix, for example. There's also the premise that Geno is technically a Mario character, Nintendo's flagship and most important series. As others have suggested in the past, brand expansion isn't just limited to individual franchises. Think of the big picture when it comes to Nintendo and Square Enix's relationship. You have things like Octopath Traveler. You have the mountain of SE games coming to the Switch. You have Final Fantasy on the NES Classic and SMRPG, Final Fantasy VI, and Secret of Mana (three IPs) on the SNES Classic. There's a bond there that other third party companies in Smash clearly have too. Look at Bomberman on the Switch and the Castlevania games on the NES and SNES Classic. Look at all the Street Fighter rereleases and remasters. Look at the bajillion Sonic and Megaman games on Nintendo platforms. Look at Bayonetta's exclusivity. Namco's literally the one developing Nintendo's biggest cross over game of all time. This is super significant because THIS DOES focus on the Square Enix brand as a whole.

 

[Nekoo]

Weird question I'm not sure if I can phrase right;

Do you think the timing of hearing these characters has to do with anything? Like...makes them less or more likely?

I don't think so. The names were in circulation all the way from VEEEERY EARLY to like novembers from what I know.
I just ended up knowing someone who heard those.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

....I can't help but feel that someone in the leak community knows the DLC character. God; what would the price be to get THAT information?

 

[Nekoo]

....I can't help but feel that someone in the leak community knows the DLC character. God; what would the price be to get THAT information?

Their job and being blacklisted from the industry if someone can trace them back I guess?

 

[MajoraMan28]

Mario X Square is definitely a thing. Mario Hoops 3 on 3, Fortune Steet, Mario Sports Mix, for example. There's also the premise that Geno is technically a Mario character, Nintendo's flagship and most important series. As others have suggested in the past, brand expansion isn't just limited to individual franchises. Think of the big picture when it comes to Nintendo and Square Enix's relationship. You have things like Octopath Traveler. You have the mountain of SE games coming to the Switch. You have Final Fantasy on the NES Classic and SMRPG, Final Fantasy VI, and Secret of Mana (three IPs) on the SNES Classic. There's a bond there that other third party companies in Smash clearly have too. Look at Bomberman on the Switch and the Castlevania games on the NES and SNES Classic. Look at all the Street Fighter rereleases and remasters. Look at the bajillion Sonic and Megaman games on Nintendo platforms. Look at Bayonetta's exclusivity. Namco's literally the one developing Nintendo's biggest cross over game of all time. This is super significant because THIS DOES focus on the Square Enix brand as a whole.

I'm not closing my eyes to Mario X Square (heck, Mario is my favorite series and it is a wet dream to have more collabs like they did back in the SNES days).
I'm just saying that FF representation was pretty lackluster up to this point and Sakurai may have gone to them to ask S-E to have a more complete package.
I think it's viable to have this situation and also have them promote another character as a second S-E rep. You said so yourself that, in the supposed two candidates thing, that a chance for two characters being accepted was a real thing.

 

[Kuon]

The fact that it's from Dragon Quest, the Grandfather of JRPG is enough of a case, like, you don't even need to add more. Case on point. Dragon Quest invented 100% of the code of JRPG, and was once the Rival of Final Fantasy.

Beside, from the sounds of it, it seems we might get a "Robin/Olimar and Alf/Villager" case. Where Luminary AND Erdrick are sharing a spot

When you say Luminary, are you referring to the DQXI protagonist? Are you saying we might get a male/female Erdrick (which would be the same situation as Robin/Villager) and Erdrick with the Luminary alt (which would be the same situation as Olimar/Alph)?