Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[EarlTamm]

You know, here is a random question that has certainly not been asked as of yet, who would win in a fight to the death between Geno, Dimentio and Fawful?

 

[paper roxy]

You know, here is a random question that has certainly not been asked as of yet, who would win in a fight to the death between Geno, Dimentio and Fawful?

i feel like itd go down to dimentio and geno but itd either be a stalemate or geno would win

 

[Luigi The President]

You know, here is a random question that has certainly not been asked as of yet, who would win in a fight to the death between Geno, Dimentio and Fawful?

Fawful BTFO from the very start
Dimentio vs. Geno is an incredibly hard-fought battle
I do think Geno would inch out

 

[EricTheGamerman]

February 2020 is much closer than you anticipate.

Not much time to reveal and release 5 DLC characters. Especially considering the releases can only begin after February 2019.

You can't say "Sakurai would've held back DLC announcements until they're all ready" when Piranha Plant exists.

I didn’t say that though. I said he wouldn’t reveal them until they’re individually ready and after Piranha Plant or much closer to its release at least. Piranha Plant clearly leads the season in a sense, but he’s also the special introductory one. With him already on the way, there’s absolutely no reason to rush another reveal. Especially when the game is also only just now releasing.

Also, I realize how close February 2020 is. I would just expect them to hold off on a bit for DLC announcements. I would expect Piranha Plant at some point in February. Then a month or so before the next reveal, and basically a character every two months from them. That’s plenty of time for each character to be revealed before hand and then released subsequently. 14 months between the release of Ultimate and February 2020. Things start maybe a little slower, but April fits well in a theoretical release schedule which is why I say then.

Besides Mewtwo Smash 4 didn’t get additional DLC til June 2015. To be fair that was three characters and I would expect them to be more spaced out this time around with a more clear plan, but I think it’s reasonable that they’ll be slower with reveals in the beginning as focus is on continuing to iron out glitches and balance tweaking while letting the game settle.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Fawful BTFO from the very start
Dimentio vs. Geno is an incredibly hard-fought battle
I do think Geno would inch out

It's like the embodiment of order vs the embodiment of chaos

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Geno T-posing in all his glory. Actually curious, what do you envision a Geno reveal to be like?

Mario, Peach, and Bowser are walking through some forest, not the Forest Maze, just a random forest; all three are walking together and straight in a diagonal row, like the battle stance from Super Mario RPG. AND THEN MARIO GETS ATTACKED BY A KOOPA WIZARD! Just kidding. And then out of no where, they hear a loud roar and see the form of a dragon's shadow from the sky, Rathalos swoops in and descends to the ground, getting ready to fight the three; they go in their battle stance, Mario is on the left as usual in the game, Bowser in the middle, and Peach on the right. Mario is using his final smash (Ultra Flame from SMRPG), Peach is using her frying pan, and Bowser is using his claws like in SMRPG. They're getting their asses handed to them, still trying to hang in there when suddenly, a yellow disc comes flying out of no where coming towards Rathalos; Rathalos sees the disk and just barely dodges the disc. The camera angle is at the ground looking at the three and Rathalos, then we see brown shoes come out of no where in front of the camera walking slowly... then they stop after walking out of the shadows. They are still unseen from the camera; Mario, Peach, and Bowser have a shocking face and recognize the figure from somewhere! Now like in Simon's trailer, the camera changes each frame whenever the figure is ready to attack, they get in a battle stance, shows the camera activating their gun from their hand, camera shows them pointing their gun at Rathalos, and the camera shows THEIR hand-gun, upper body and face!
**BEWARE THE FOREST'S MUSHROOMS HARDCORE REMIX PLAYS**

Spoiler: Splash Screen

GENO
GRANTS YOUR WISH !

Geno charges up his Geno Beam with his old sound effect, three red stars light up above Geno, and then fires at Rathalos!
**Then they show his moveset in a compilation.**
After showing his moveset in a compilation, the remix cuts off, the white background with the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate logo comes flying in and ends the Geno reveal trailer. Then it cuts back to the CG animation, Geno finishes off Rathalos with a Geno Blast from the sky. Rathalos is defeated and stays lying unconscious on the ground.

Geno walks over to Mario, crosses his arms, and gives him a nod.
Mario gives him a thumbs up, Peach smiles and laughs, and Bowser gives him a hug (haha, I wish), Bowser crosses his arms and gives him a smirk with a nod. All four walk off into the forest together, then the camera angle switches over to Rathalos with the four walking in the background, Rathalos still lying unconscious... and then it fades to black.

 

[Krooli]

I’m off to sleep Geno bros, Goodnight everyone!

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Oh shoot page 420 uh say gee NO to drugs kids

This took me FAR too long to get. I feel such shame, lol.

Besides Geno, I would also very much appreciate Tails making it for DLC. Sonic's been with the franchise for 10 years now, it would have been great if he had been able to bring his buddy along for the ride this time around; plus that EGM hoax needs to become a reality. I'd be surprised though if he did make it despite also being a highly recognizable character in gaming.

I'm a bit late to this discussion but about favorite memories related to Smash Bros: I got the very first one boxed on my birthday in 1999. The two times I remember seeing it before were at a Toys R Us when they had those old gaming panels where you could push a button that resembled the box art and a TV screen would play a trailer for that game, and I saw Smash Bros. playing on the screen and couldn't believe there was a game with all these famous Nintendo characters fighting each other - it totally blew me away. I'd also seen that hilarious commercial at some point and got a kick out of that, so I must have told someone that was exactly what I wanted that year for my birthday. When we finished our party at the community pool I got home with Smash Bros. and played it that night with Samus Aran and beat the game. It was nice just sitting in the living room at night with the lights off and no one else around while I got to play around and see for the first time what this Smash game had going on. I was a little confused by Master Hand but I understood it must represent the player's hands or something and how they control the characters.

Sometime in 2001 I remember cruising through a Walmart when I got my first ever glimpse at Super Smash Bros. Melee being played by four kids battling it out on Mute City, and I remember one of the players was playing as Sheik. Once again I was blown away at just how much bigger and better Smash Bros. could be with all the new stages and characters and I immediately knew I had to get this game. Finally on Christmas day 2002, my dad got me a Nintendo GameCube along with Super Smash Bros. Melee, Metroid Prime and Star Fox Adventures. The funny thing is when I fired up the GameCube and played Melee for the first time I just happened to go through the end goal of stage 1 in Adventure mode to trigger Luigi's appearance, though I didn't unlock him for whatever reason, and I wondered, "Why did I see that scene with Luigi only once?" I later looked it up online and found out about passing the goal with a 2 digit at the end of the timer.

Yet another Melee memory many years later - I'm thinking sometime around late May of 2007/2008 towards the end of one of my years in high school, someone had brought their Nintendo Wii to school so they could set it up to play Super Smash Bros. Melee in class when everyone had finished testing and there was nothing else to do. We did rotations in the chairs with people who lost getting replaced by other people who were waiting for their turn. I remember this one guy who was ridiculously good with Sheik and he pretty much kept on playing. Later on the teacher left the school and we had to migrate to an even bigger classroom, and thus began a tournament mode for the whole class. I was surprised that I managed to get 3rd place in the class with Fox McCloud, although I was almost 2nd place when I very nearly defeated someone playing as Marth but they turned the tables in the last minutes. When we finished up it was finally time for all of us to pack up and head home for the Summer. I always though that was such a cool sendoff for Summer vacation.

I'm sure there's plenty more memories I could share here but I don't want to bog this thread down too badly; however, I still have lots of online recordings of Brawl in 2008 as well as some old replay content me and a friend of mine did just for fun. We had some really silly stuff like this happen online, and I always particularly liked a Star Fox-themed match a friend and I had as Fox and Falco:

This just reminded me of another memory...back when Melee was released, I remember trying to get to my local Wal-Mart as often as possible, because there was a demo of the game available there. The very first character I wanted to try were the Icies. I can still vaguely recall that feeling, that wonder of getting to try the game and the new character I was so excited for...man, if only I could feel that again.

I'm also reminded of a little thing called Smash Mail (at least, I THINK that's what it was called.) Anyone remember that? You'd pick three characters, and email a challenge to someone, then they'd pick three, and the teams would "fight"? Ah, early internet...

By the way. Was doing some late night netsurfing, just trying to connect dots and put on tin foil hats and theorize. Did yall know that people have been wanting Geno as far back as Melee? His popularity isn't anywhere near where it is now, but this link is to a Japanese survey about who players would like to see in Smash. Geno placed 8th tied with Mallow. I know, not that great (and with a lackluster 5 votes at that) but I thought it was definitely interesting. Also interesting is that James Bond placed higher than Banjo...it is Japan but wow. Also interesting, is that a lot of these characters, especially the high ranking ones, eventually MADE it to Smash.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult3.html

Also, I'm thinking (as I'm sure a lot of you are) Sakurai is really trying to go all out and trying to do everything he couldn't do in a past Smash game, in this one. (Hence Ultimate). And honestly, he has a pattern of doing this for every Smash game.

In any case, here's the result of my internet sleuthing:

Spoiler: Soooo here's some fun facts you all probably already knew!

64:

• Almost every considered character for Smash64 made it into the next one as fighters. (Bowser, Mewtwo, and Marth. The only exception is King Dedede who made it into Brawl)

Melee:

• Balloon Fighter, Urban Champion, Bubbles from Clu Clu Land, and Excitebike were all considered to represent "Retro NES" before settling on Ice Climbers, all these characters are Spirits in Ultimate iirc. (Additionally, I don't think one can compare this point with Geno getting represented by a Mii Costume because 1, the Mii C was compensation and 2, Ice Climbers were chosen over its competiton. I do not think Cloud was chosen over Geno, rather that, Cloud was already the intention. Geno was a bonus and appears in a playable form, unlike the other potential retro reps mentioned here.)
• Lucas, Snake, Sonic, and Wario were all considered or requested by their creators at some point, but couldn't make it in due to time constraints or other factors. All of them made it into Brawl the next game.
• People wanted Takamaru, but he hadn't had a game in a few years and he was pretty obscure. He made it in as an Assist Trophy anyway. (possibly compensation?)
• Sakurai expressed interest in putting in Mach Rider. Mach Rider is now in Ultimate as a Spirit.
• Even with stages, there was a Fire Emblem stage that was supposed to incorporate ballistae, that eventually got repurposed into Castle Seige in the next game.

Brawl:

• "The Forbidden 7": Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Roy, Toon Zelda, Toon Shiek, and "Pra_Mai". Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Roy would eventually return as fighters in SSB4. Dixie Kong now has a hat in Ultimate.
• Pac-Man, Miis, Villager, Geno, Blastoise, and Krystal were all considered. Pac-Man, Villager, and Miis made the jump to fighters in the next game, while Wolf was put in over Krystal. Krystal is now an AT in Ultimate. (which honestly to me, is really unfortunate. The probably would've put her in this time around [Ultimate], but once again prioritized Wolf. Which I understand but it sucks Wolf keeps taking her shine! Lol. No one in Smash fights with a Staff AND Smash needs more female reps period. But also interesting to note that Sakurai likely never forgot about Krystal since Brawl since he at least gave us the AT.) Along with the Miis Geno was given his costume in the very next game. Blastoise appears as a stage background, for the sake of being thorough.
• AT's
  • Excitebike appears as an AT
  • Kat and Ana appear as an AT. They are now in Ultimate. (won't say how due to spoilers)
  • Little Mac appears as an AT before he was promoted to fighter in the next game.
  • Ray MK III appears as an AT and is now a Mii Costume in Ultimate
  • Saki Amamiya appears as an AT (and it is noted that this is due to how popular and requested he was in Japan) and is now a Mii Costume in Ultimate

SSB4:

• The Rhythm Heaven rep was considered here. Rhythm Heaven potential reps have Spirits in Ultimate.
• Takamaru was considered (even years later! This is way after Melee) but wasn't added due to lack of familiarity.
• Chrom famously wasn't added but was definitely considered. This is evident in his Final Smash appearance and his Mii Costume. He was eventually added in for Ultimate, the next game.
• Heihachi was considered but his moves would be too hard to implement. Additionally, Pac-Man was chosen in over him fairly quickly.
• Dark Samus appears as an AT before she is promoted to E Fighter in the next one.
• Isabelle appears as an AT before she is promoted to Fighter in the next one.
• Mii Costumes that eventually were promoted (?) to AT in Ultimate (Akira, Black Knight, Chain Chomp, Knuckles, Rathalos, Skull Kid, Zero)
• Intrestingly, Saki is promoted(?) to Mii Costume in Ultimate. (Thus keeping him in the game SOMEHOW). Additionally, as stated earler, Kat and Ana do not appear as an AT but are still in the game in some shape or form outside of Spirits.

Spoiler: Also, I read some Source Gaming articles, interesting tidbits that stood out to me that you all probably already knew as well!

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2017/05/31/character-selection-smash-for/ :

• According to development during SSB4, Industry trends and whats popular during development play a large role in who gets considered in the roster. Inkling's Mii Costume pick was because of how popular the game was during DLC, similar to Rex. (This interview was in 2016. For those thinking about the Square Rep, especially if it may have been decided this far back, DQ wasn't doing so well in 2016. Nor was it trending. There were plans to release Dragon Quest Heroes in the West and more if it did well, while people were disappointed with a specific Dragon Quest Conference. I have links if yall really wanna know. In any case, DQ11 wasn't even out yet. So again, really up to what Nintendo is thinking as far as DLC, and the circumstances around when the SE rep, if chosen, was chosen.)
• Rosalina and Luma's inclusion came not only because shes popular and from a main title Mario game, but also because of her UNIQUENESS. Her puppet fighter abilities make her something no one has seen yet.
• Sakurai states Smash allows him to bring back old and forgotten characters, and retro reps especially dont really have the relevancy argument against them. Looking at Little Mac, specifically, he was popular out here in Punch Out and in Japan (similar to Geno, which is actually pointed out in the article.) and thats why he was included and not, for example, Takamaru.
• Sakurai often picks highly requested characters.
• Combine that with this statement from his most recent Game Informer Interview:
  • [" We do things like base our consideration on the results of the Smash ballot, and also balance things out so that there’s a difference in the types of fighters."]
• Also peep this one. This could be contirubted for the argument against DQ...:
  • ["You may not sense that, but it is actually a miracle every time we’re able to create a Smash Bros. game. It’s a bit different from any other game series that regularly comes out with new installments. Unless we get approval from all of the I.P. holders who are involved in this game, we can’t make this game. And every time, we are walking a fine line."]
• EDIT: AAAAAND this one from another Source Gaming articule (seperate from above), when talking about DLC from the last game:
  • ["From now until the end, it is going to be fan service [2] , but I can’t keep the development team together forever, so there’s only going to be several more characters [3]. I also ask for your patience, as we need time to develop more content.
    • Ryu, Lucas, Roy, and Mewtwo were already in development before the Ballot, and it's the same team doing Ultimate. A lot of the ballots picks are transferring over into Ultimate. They must know Geno's popularity based on the ballot. Combine that with the allegations that NoJ has the results of the ballot.

In conclusion, I think if Sakurai was given any type of list to choose from, and Geno was on it, and possible, that he would pick Geno over the other rumored Sqaure characters based on how he's operated in past games, how Ultimate is bringing together a lot of old ideas and from past titles, and how he's treated characters he's actually wanted in the game, pretty much every character Sakurai has explicitly said he wanted in (not considered, but WANTED), if they held up to the test of time, they made it in. (See above for the evidence for this deduction) I think Geno fits this mold, perfectly. I think Geno has held up to time, him being retro beats the relevancy argument, he's wildly popular, and unique enough to be different from other fighters in his competition. If he doesn't get in....I blame Nintendo and SE. But probably more so Nintendo tbh.

EDIT: Based on above edit (in second spoiler tag): If Sakurai has any say, which its implied he may have some, based on a selection NoJ game him, and he's deciding how viable a given fighter is, and he was given Geno, I'm confident he would choose to include him.

Spoiler: TL:DR

I think Geno's chances are good.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

That is some great compiling work! You are an asset to this team, my man.

Makes me feel like I should be doing more...perhaps I can be the guy who hands out kudos when other people do well.

You know, here is a random question that has certainly not been asked as of yet, who would win in a fight to the death between Geno, Dimentio and Fawful?

My money's on Dimentio, honestly. Geno's got skills, but Dimentio is straight up evil final boss material. He'd do whatever it took to win, and has the cunning to pull it off. Geno however, is too honorable to hit below the belt, as it were.

Fawful doesn't have that issue, and he's got the drive to succeed, but way too much overconfidence. He'd be too distracted making food analogies and would likely get absorbed by Dimentio to make an even more messed up Super Dimentio. Then Geno is definitely toast, lol.

Seriously, just imagine what Fawful-Dimentio would look like...

 

[EarlTamm]

Geno however, it too honorable to hit below the belt, as it were.

I am not saying he would be able to pull off Geno Whirl on Dimentio(As no boss can be affected by it with the exception of Exor), but Geno Whirls ability is a picture perfect example of overkill. And anyone who is willing to go overkill is likely not as honorable as you would think, especially when the situation called for action.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Do you guys think Final Fantasy having only two music tracks hinders Geno's chances at all?

 

[EarlTamm]

Do you guys think Final Fantasy having only two music tracks hinders Geno's chances at all?

No, because it is entirely diffrent composers, as well as Yoko Shimomura(The composer of SMRPG) already being on the Smash music team.

 

[MattX20]

Do you guys think Final Fantasy having only two music tracks hinders Geno's chances at all?

No, as Yoko Shimomura did many of the Super Mario RPG tracks and not Nobuo.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Ah, that makes sense, I was unaware.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

I am not saying he would be able to pull off Geno Whirl on Dimentio(As no boss can be effected by it with the exception of Exor), but Geno Whirls ability is a picture perfect example of overkill. And anyone who is willing to go overkill is likely not as honorable as you would think, especially when the situation called for action.

Haha, fair enough. It'd be pretty close still, I think, especially if Dimentio used Fawful as a tool (which he most certainly would.) But I can see Geno edging it out if he really got serious.

There's also getting help from above, as well. I've actually kinda thought that's what Geno Blast was supposed to be--something like summoning the power of Star Road/the higher authority. Because it rains down, and the beams are multicolored, like the seven stars.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

By the way. Was doing some late night netsurfing, just trying to connect dots and put on tin foil hats and theorize. Did yall know that people have been wanting Geno as far back as Melee? His popularity isn't anywhere near where it is now, but this link is to a Japanese survey about who players would like to see in Smash. Geno placed 8th tied with Mallow. I know, not that great (and with a lackluster 5 votes at that) but I thought it was definitely interesting. Also interesting is that James Bond placed higher than Banjo...it is Japan but wow. Also interesting, is that a lot of these characters, especially the high ranking ones, eventually MADE it to Smash.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult3.html

Also, I'm thinking (as I'm sure a lot of you are) Sakurai is really trying to go all out and trying to do everything he couldn't do in a past Smash game, in this one. (Hence Ultimate). And honestly, he has a pattern of doing this for every Smash game.

In any case, here's the result of my internet sleuthing:

Spoiler: Soooo here's some fun facts you all probably already knew!

64:

• Almost every considered character for Smash64 made it into the next one as fighters. (Bowser, Mewtwo, and Marth. The only exception is King Dedede who made it into Brawl)

Melee:

• Balloon Fighter, Urban Champion, Bubbles from Clu Clu Land, and Excitebike were all considered to represent "Retro NES" before settling on Ice Climbers, all these characters are Spirits in Ultimate iirc. (Additionally, I don't think one can compare this point with Geno getting represented by a Mii Costume because 1, the Mii C was compensation and 2, Ice Climbers were chosen over its competiton. I do not think Cloud was chosen over Geno, rather that, Cloud was already the intention. Geno was a bonus and appears in a playable form, unlike the other potential retro reps mentioned here.)
• Lucas, Snake, Sonic, and Wario were all considered or requested by their creators at some point, but couldn't make it in due to time constraints or other factors. All of them made it into Brawl the next game.
• People wanted Takamaru, but he hadn't had a game in a few years and he was pretty obscure. He made it in as an Assist Trophy anyway. (possibly compensation?)
• Sakurai expressed interest in putting in Mach Rider. Mach Rider is now in Ultimate as a Spirit.
• Even with stages, there was a Fire Emblem stage that was supposed to incorporate ballistae, that eventually got repurposed into Castle Seige in the next game.

Brawl:

• "The Forbidden 7": Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Roy, Toon Zelda, Toon Shiek, and "Pra_Mai". Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Roy would eventually return as fighters in SSB4. Dixie Kong now has a hat in Ultimate.
• Pac-Man, Miis, Villager, Geno, Blastoise, and Krystal were all considered. Pac-Man, Villager, and Miis made the jump to fighters in the next game, while Wolf was put in over Krystal. Krystal is now an AT in Ultimate. (which honestly to me, is really unfortunate. The probably would've put her in this time around [Ultimate], but once again prioritized Wolf. Which I understand but it sucks Wolf keeps taking her shine! Lol. No one in Smash fights with a Staff AND Smash needs more female reps period. But also interesting to note that Sakurai likely never forgot about Krystal since Brawl since he at least gave us the AT.) Along with the Miis Geno was given his costume in the very next game. Blastoise appears as a stage background, for the sake of being thorough.
• AT's
  • Excitebike appears as an AT
  • Kat and Ana appear as an AT. They are now in Ultimate. (won't say how due to spoilers)
  • Little Mac appears as an AT before he was promoted to fighter in the next game.
  • Ray MK III appears as an AT and is now a Mii Costume in Ultimate
  • Saki Amamiya appears as an AT (and it is noted that this is due to how popular and requested he was in Japan) and is now a Mii Costume in Ultimate

SSB4:

• The Rhythm Heaven rep was considered here. Rhythm Heaven potential reps have Spirits in Ultimate.
• Takamaru was considered (even years later! This is way after Melee) but wasn't added due to lack of familiarity.
• Chrom famously wasn't added but was definitely considered. This is evident in his Final Smash appearance and his Mii Costume. He was eventually added in for Ultimate, the next game.
• Heihachi was considered but his moves would be too hard to implement. Additionally, Pac-Man was chosen in over him fairly quickly.
• Dark Samus appears as an AT before she is promoted to E Fighter in the next one.
• Isabelle appears as an AT before she is promoted to Fighter in the next one.
• Mii Costumes that eventually were promoted (?) to AT in Ultimate (Akira, Black Knight, Chain Chomp, Knuckles, Rathalos, Skull Kid, Zero)
• Intrestingly, Saki is promoted(?) to Mii Costume in Ultimate. (Thus keeping him in the game SOMEHOW). Additionally, as stated earler, Kat and Ana do not appear as an AT but are still in the game in some shape or form outside of Spirits.

Spoiler: Also, I read some Source Gaming articles, interesting tidbits that stood out to me that you all probably already knew as well!

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2017/05/31/character-selection-smash-for/ :

• According to development during SSB4, Industry trends and whats popular during development play a large role in who gets considered in the roster. Inkling's Mii Costume pick was because of how popular the game was during DLC, similar to Rex. (This interview was in 2016. For those thinking about the Square Rep, especially if it may have been decided this far back, DQ wasn't doing so well in 2016. Nor was it trending. There were plans to release Dragon Quest Heroes in the West and more if it did well, while people were disappointed with a specific Dragon Quest Conference. I have links if yall really wanna know. In any case, DQ11 wasn't even out yet. So again, really up to what Nintendo is thinking as far as DLC, and the circumstances around when the SE rep, if chosen, was chosen.)
• Rosalina and Luma's inclusion came not only because shes popular and from a main title Mario game, but also because of her UNIQUENESS. Her puppet fighter abilities make her something no one has seen yet.
• Sakurai states Smash allows him to bring back old and forgotten characters, and retro reps especially dont really have the relevancy argument against them. Looking at Little Mac, specifically, he was popular out here in Punch Out and in Japan (similar to Geno, which is actually pointed out in the article.) and thats why he was included and not, for example, Takamaru.
• Sakurai often picks highly requested characters.
• Combine that with this statement from his most recent Game Informer Interview:
  • [" We do things like base our consideration on the results of the Smash ballot, and also balance things out so that there’s a difference in the types of fighters."]
• Also peep this one. This could be contirubted for the argument against DQ...:
  • ["You may not sense that, but it is actually a miracle every time we’re able to create a Smash Bros. game. It’s a bit different from any other game series that regularly comes out with new installments. Unless we get approval from all of the I.P. holders who are involved in this game, we can’t make this game. And every time, we are walking a fine line."]
• EDIT: AAAAAND this one from another Source Gaming articule (seperate from above), when talking about DLC from the last game:
  • ["From now until the end, it is going to be fan service [2] , but I can’t keep the development team together forever, so there’s only going to be several more characters [3]. I also ask for your patience, as we need time to develop more content.
    • Ryu, Lucas, Roy, and Mewtwo were already in development before the Ballot, and it's the same team doing Ultimate. A lot of the ballots picks are transferring over into Ultimate. They must know Geno's popularity based on the ballot. Combine that with the allegations that NoJ has the results of the ballot.

In conclusion, I think if Sakurai was given any type of list to choose from, and Geno was on it, and possible, that he would pick Geno over the other rumored Sqaure characters based on how he's operated in past games, how Ultimate is bringing together a lot of old ideas and from past titles, and how he's treated characters he's actually wanted in the game, pretty much every character Sakurai has explicitly said he wanted in (not considered, but WANTED), if they held up to the test of time, they made it in. (See above for the evidence for this deduction) I think Geno fits this mold, perfectly. I think Geno has held up to time, him being retro beats the relevancy argument, he's wildly popular, and unique enough to be different from other fighters in his competition. If he doesn't get in....I blame Nintendo and SE. But probably more so Nintendo tbh.

EDIT: Based on above edit (in second spoiler tag): If Sakurai has any say, which its implied he may have some, based on a selection NoJ game him, and he's deciding how viable a given fighter is, and he was given Geno, I'm confident he would choose to include him.

Spoiler: TL:DR

I think Geno's chances are good.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Ooooo, I just caught up to this! Thank you so much for spending a lot of time typing this. I know this was probably all difficult to include and connect the dots, but you got me interested very quick. Thank you for the lecture, and now my thoughts on Geno's inclusion went up! My friend wants to know about Geno's chances, this would be a perfect reference if I show him. As I said before, thank you, childishgamgeno!

 

[Wazygoose]

First off I think the list likely has around 20ish names on it and most of them are Marketable characters and characters that are in upcoming games with a few fanfavorites anyways here’s what I think the list likely has on it:

-Edelgard (Upcoming game)

-Daemon x Machina Protag (Upcoming game)

-Bandana Dee (Marketable)

-E. Gadd/King Boo (Upcoming game)

-Gen 8th Pokemon (Upcoming game)

-Geno (Fan-Favorite)

-Banjo (Fan-Favorite)

-Steve (Marketable)

- Porky (Mother’s 30th anniversary)

- Sylux (Upcoming game)

- Heihachi (Marketable)

-Lloyd Irving (Marketable?)

-Rayman/Ubisoft Rep (Marketable)

-Bethesda Rep/Doom Guy (Marketable)

-Septhiroth (Marketable + That list)

- Retro Rep

- Paper Mario (Marketable)

Great list! I could see NoJ saying this.

I'd hope there was a Smash Announcement for DLC at VGAs but I don't see Reggie making it for some reason? Hasnt it always be Sakurai?

Also, strange that people say that Geno appearing in Smash wouldn't translate into future spin off titles but that Crono appearing would mean a revival, when I think it would literally be the same case. Gonna disagree that Crono is more recognizeable than Geno based on the Smash fanbase alone tbh.



Okay. I'm gonna break this up into two instances. If I only had 5 choices, and if I had more than 5. Mostly because I don't think its the most efficient idea to just pick 5 characters, when Sakurai has to decide whether or not they work. Other than Bandanna Waddle Dee, this is in no particular order. (BWD is my absolute 1s string pick)


1. Bandanna Waddle Dee

From a purely business perspective, this is my first pick. He is heavily requested in Japan and out here. Is still 'relevant' being in playable KStar Allies (lets not forget him missing from DDD FS) and is part of the Kirby franchise which Sakurai created. Not only is this a good business move because fans will love it and buy it, as first string starter pick it might also convince fans the Fighter Pack is worth buying, given their skepticism after the last Direct. He is unique in the fact that he has a spear for a weapon and no one else in Smash does, there's little doubt Sakurai would say no.​

​

2. Geno

From a purely business perspective, I see no reason why this isn't viable. All bias aside, if Nintendo pays to see how fans would react, (as evidenced by that "insider" on GameFAQs and JC Rodrigo's statement) and if we have the results of the ballot, we must know how popular this character is with fans. If I did a google search of the character to gauge how he would sell, most of the articles have this character in their list. Purely sales wise and fan wise, we can avoid the backlash of Isaac, as well as please our fans and attract more people to our game. As a Mario representative he can represent our partnership with Square and how SMRPG influenced Mario RPG, coinciding with the release of Mario & Luigi Bowsers Inside Story, only a month after Smash is released.​

​

3. Matthew

Given the disappointment of the fans after Isaac and Shadow's reveal as assist trophies, the next best inclusion is his son who look almost identical. This is purely a fan-service pick. We are aware of how much people wanted Isaac that we made him a Mii Costume as compensation. We didn't have resources to include him, but maybe we can include a similar character. If we have the ballot, we know Isaac placed high. That can translate into sales.​

​

4. Edelgard from FE: Three Houses

We have a Fire Emblem game coming out very soon, to coincide with this release, I would definitely place Edelgard here. I don't care how you implement her, but this could bring even more people to Fire Emblem, especially since this is the first nextgen game since Radiant Dawn.​

5. Euden from Dragalia Lost

We just had a meeting with Cygames. Instead of putting in a character like Katalina, I would prefer a character like Euden. Dragalia Lost is a game Nintendo published and its doing well in the mobile game crowd. We hold 5% stock in Cygames and Euden could potentially sell very well and introduce gamers who may not have seen or played Dragalia to be interested in the game. That works in favor of both Nintendo and Cygames as we can split profits, and traffic from console to mobile can usher in even more profit through microtransactions on the mobile game.​

​

6. Any Dragon Quest Rep

We publish and pay for advertising for all Dragon Quest titles. Every major title has released on a Switch console with Dragon Quest Builders 2 and DQ11 coming out on the Switch. Smash has already gone gold, and what a better way to try to persuade Western gamers to play Dragon Quest than by putting a representative in this title. This would work on both our front, and Square's and represent our partnership before they were Square Enix. They are incredibly iconic out here, and also represent the first RPG.​

​

7. Dixie Kong

She could be a strong choice for little girls who have an interest in the game, and thus can usher in more families to play.​

​

8. Travis Touchdown

No More Heroes is releasing in January, only a month after Smash is out, in order to promote, or coincide with the release, we can introduce him as a fighter in Smash Brothers.​

​

9. Impa

This could appeal to women who want to see more strong female representation outside of princesses, and represent Hyrule Warriors​

​

10. Linkle

Another popular female character to choose from.​

​

11. Isa Jo or Saki Amamiya

Sin and Punishment Star Successor was a critically acclaimed game, and the sequel to the first Sin and Punishment, Saki is popular enough to warrant a Mii Costume, so a rep from this game can generate interest in further developing the series.​

​

12. Lloyd Irving

We ARE working with Bandai Namco afterall. Tales is an incredibly popular series, and we are looking forward to a Switch release of their next one. Lloyd is arguably the most popular Tales character, and appeared as a Mii Costume last game, and thus, should have a spot in our roster. This will definitely go well with fans as well as fans of the series, and can introduce new fans to Tales in anticipation for the future game. Also, no character in game uses two swords.​

​

13. Decidueye

Incredibly popular with fans during speculation, it would make sense to grant their wishes and include one of their most requested Pokemon. Additionally, the potential for a moveset would be unique, and players can find the character in Pokken Tournament.​

​

14. "Town" Representative

We are developing a new game with Game Freak, and in anticipation of this title, we will introduce the character early in Smash to familiarize players before releasing the game and hopefully draw them to buy the game through that familiarity.​

​

15. Steve, Yooka Laylee, or Rex (imagine the steal of having people pay for a character already sort of represented in the game.)

Honestly, I just wanted a clean 15.​

You can totally tell where I ran out of ideas and where I picked them back up again lmao.​

Anyway, my NoJ nonbiased 5 would be

1. Bandanna Waddle Dee
2. Euden
3. Lloyd Irving
4. Matthew
5. Geno

Yea I think that’s pretty reasonable. I do feel like another Zelda rep is coming, but all these seem good. Super thorough, great list!

No, I just mean on the roster. In Ultimate, echo fighters don't have to take up a spot on the roster, but they did have to in Smash 4. What also helps is that Piranha Plant has moves that resemble other moves of characters on the roster, so he probably didn't/won't take up as much development time as other characters. And PP is a bonus anyway, so this doesn't lower Geno's chances at all

How is PP like other characters?

Mario, Peach, and Bowser are walking through some forest, not the Forest Maze, just a random forest; all three are walking together and straight in a diagonal row, like the battle stance from Super Mario RPG. AND THEN MARIO GETS ATTACKED BY A KOOPA WIZARD! Just kidding. And then out of no where, they hear a loud roar and see the form of a dragon's shadow from the sky, Rathalos swoops in and descends to the ground, getting ready to fight the three; they go in their battle stance, Mario is on the left as usual in the game, Bowser in the middle, and Peach on the right. Mario is using his final smash (Ultra Flame from SMRPG), Peach is using her frying pan, and Bowser is using his claws like in SMRPG. They're getting their ***** handed to them, still trying to hang in there when suddenly, a yellow disc comes flying out of no where coming towards Rathalos; Rathalos sees the disk and just barely dodges the disc. The camera angle is at the ground looking at the three and Rathalos, then we see brown shoes come out of no where in front of the camera walking slowly... then they stop after walking out of the shadows. They are still unseen from the camera; Mario, Peach, and Bowser have a shocking face and recognize the figure from somewhere! Now like in Simon's trailer, the camera changes each frame whenever the figure is ready to attack, they get in a battle stance, shows the camera activating their gun from their hand, camera shows them pointing their gun at Rathalos, and the camera shows THEIR hand-gun, upper body and face!
**BEWARE THE FOREST'S MUSHROOMS HARDCORE REMIX PLAYS**

Spoiler: Splash Screen

GENO
GRANTS YOUR WISH !

Geno charges up his Geno Beam with his old sound effect, three red stars light up above Geno, and then fires at Rathalos!
**Then they show his moveset in a compilation.**
After showing his moveset in a compilation, the remix cuts off, the white background with the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate logo comes flying in and ends the Geno reveal trailer. Then it cuts back to the CG animation, Geno finishes off Rathalos with a Geno Blast from the sky. Rathalos is defeated and stays lying unconscious on the ground.

Geno walks over to Mario, crosses his arms, and gives him a nod.
Mario gives him a thumbs up, Peach smiles and laughs, and Bowser gives him a hug (haha, I wish), Bowser crosses his arms and gives him a smirk with a nod. All four walk off into the forest together, then the camera angle switches over to Rathalos with the four walking in the background, Rathalos still lying unconscious... and then it fades to black.

Geno Grants Your Wish is an awesome splash subtext.

 

[paper roxy]

Do you guys think Final Fantasy having only two music tracks hinders Geno's chances at all?

Not at all. Mario RPG's composer supposedly has the rights to her tracks, and she's already working with music in smash

 

[Aerospherology]

I put the list in order from easiest to use to hardest to use, rights-wise.

1. Geno
2. Sephiroth
3. Chrono
4. Sora
5. Any Dragon Quest character

 

[thirsty-pocket]

I just wanted to share this, because this is purely amazing. It made me very happy to see LoopyLupe's evolution from her Seven Star Comics!

https://twitter.com/Loopyyylupe/status/1068263518368075776?s=19

A little late commenting on this but boy howdy did this resonate with me.

Mario was my first obsession But the games were always pretty lite on story and world building ( still kind of are in some ways ) all I had to go on was the cartoons, and the movie... well those didn't really help fill in the gaps much. Super Mario RPG was the first time where I felt like I got a better look at the world Mario lives in and how people live. They even expanded on a mysterious concept from Super Mario World called the Star Road that was pretty fascinating to me as a kid. I used to draw all kinds of Mario fan art and comics as a kid and for years I based everything on what I saw in Super Mario RPG, because to me, that was Mario's world.

I guess since Mario's world these days is not much like the one in SMRPG, not even in the other Mario RPGs, I kind of forgot just how big of an impact that game had on my impression of the series until I saw that whole game re-imagined in all those wonderful illustrations,

 

[yakko789]

hey astralAenigma thank you so much for sharing that LoopyyyLupe tweet. I've been looking at that Mario RPG artwork all day. I absolutely love it. It made me tear up a couple times and I love how she drew out the story the way it felt. What I mean is, in the original game, Mario is the only character you can move around, and you only see the other party members show up in cutscenes and battles, but she drew out all the panels with all the characters as they were added to the story and it was just amazing to see them all interact with one another and with bosses and NPCs. I love that she covered every nuance, detail, and easter egg in the game. I doubt she could, but I would totally buy it if she were able to release it in an artbook format. Also, reading through it, I remembered just how funny and clever that game is. I'm so happy it exists, even if Geno never makes a comeback, I'm happy with what we have up until now. I would actually prefer an HD remake of the game... also made me really want to see Mallow again. Yeah, good stuff. Thanks again!

 

[thirsty-pocket]

What would your reaction be if Geno's idle stance was walking in place like the typical Super Mario RPG NPC?

 

[Looma]

I would go with something short and sweet, and a little cheeky for Geno's reveal trailer.

The trailer starts with a view of stars, similar to how Cloud's original trailer opened. A shooting star is seen and the camera pans to focus on it. After a couple seconds, a flourished version of "Got a Star Piece" starts faintly playing as the star is approaching the ground. The audience members who know just know, but the rest are filled with reasonable mystery and doubt. Once the star reaches it's target (a Geno doll on Garden of Hope, Kongo Jungle, etc). The star possesses the doll, and the doll grows in size ala his original appearance.

Music goes quiet, cutting out immediately before the fanfare that begins at around the 13 second mark. Geno taunts (facing the screen, doing that nod that he does), and simply says "Wish granted." (cue incredibly loud cheers/jeers from the audience) Pose, splash screen, then cut to gameplay montage.

Fanfare from "Got a Star Piece" is saved for the very end, for the "Super Smash Bros Ultimate x Super Mario RPG" screen, signifying a unique victory jingle just for Geno.

 

[astralAenigma]

hey astralAenigma thank you so much for sharing that LoopyyyLupe tweet. I've been looking at that Mario RPG artwork all day. I absolutely love it. It made me tear up a couple times and I love how she drew out the story the way it felt. What I mean is, in the original game, Mario is the only character you can move around, and you only see the other party members show up in cutscenes and battles, but she drew out all the panels with all the characters as they were added to the story and it was just amazing to see them all interact with one another and with bosses and NPCs. I love that she covered every nuance, detail, and easter egg in the game. I doubt she could, but I would totally buy it if she were able to release it in an artbook format. Also, reading through it, I remembered just how funny and clever that game is. I'm so happy it exists, even if Geno never makes a comeback, I'm happy with what we have up until now. I would actually prefer an HD remake of the game... also made me really want to see Mallow again. Yeah, good stuff. Thanks again!

No problem, I'm very happy I was able to share this masterpiece along with all those feelings!
I saw it as a notification on Twitter when I woke up yesterday, and it literally made my day. As SSGuy said earlier, her portrayal of SMRPG's universe is the best I've ever seen, and the most similar to mine when I first played the game. I've always seen Geno as this witty, charismatic and somehow sarcastic guy, but yet very caring with a great sense of duty.
I would love to see his personality being more developed in a future game. He has so much potential!

 

[Geno Boost]

Geno in his own game? hmmm - That would be interesting. I guess he would still take on his puppet form since we do not know what his true form is. ( a star?) In his world Smithy is there so I guess they can go by that. Smithy seems more aggressive than Bowser. I expect a darker theme approach if Geno is going to have an adventure.

I feel we need to explore Culex's side more he mentioned a place called vanda and also he said that he is going to appear again and didn't show his full power yet we already explored Smithy's world so i always thought Culex should be the main focus if there is a true sequel

 

[Icewolff92]

Role play for everyone. You are Nintendo of Japan back when DLC for SSBU is being decided. What is the list of characters you give to Sakurai and why are they on the list?

Being role play, this has to be based on what you think NoJ would do, not what they should do. And, you have to give your answer as if you were NoJ talking to Sakurai.

In no particular order of reveal and the reason as to why
Edelgard or Byleth in order to promote Fire emblem Three Houses
Banjo & Kazooie as a way to get access to the Rare games for a future N64 classic
King Boo in order to promote Luigi's Mansion 3
Dante in order to help Capcom promote Devil May Cry which Capcom are keen on right now or a Gen8 Pokemon for the same reason as FE TH
Geno to have that one "fan favorite" for the general fanbase and throw Sakurai a bone in order to get the rest of list in.

 

[Gum-Gum Smash]

Role play for everyone. You are Nintendo of Japan back when DLC for SSBU is being decided. What is the list of characters you give to Sakurai and why are they on the list?

Being role play, this has to be based on what you think NoJ would do, not what they should do. And, you have to give your answer as if you were NoJ talking to Sakurai.

Geno- Fan favorite to get people sucked into the pass, easy to use the rights to, let's do it

Porky/Ninten- Mother's 30th anniversary is next year. Potential Mother collection on Switch? Makes sense to me

Rhythm Heaven- Huge franchise with no assist or anything. Makes sense, especially if we are getting a new Rhythm Heaven game for Switch

Banjo and Kazooie- Makes sense to strengthen realationship with Microsoft. I'd say Steve, as that feels more like a thing NOJ would do, but Banjo and Kazooie if they are listening

I'm gonna say a surprise third/second party for the last slot. Something unexpected that would benefit them. Like say Ubisoft with Rayman? Or something else. Kinda like Bayonetta you know? Either that or a promotional existing franchise to make a perfect Square in My Music

(This is hoping Spirits really do mean squat)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Wanted to ask about the Geno Spirit again.

Is the implication that Sakurai could only get a Geno Spirit and Icon for base game?
And then Nintendo decided to go and get Geno for a playable slot? If Geno were to be DLC.

Or...what's the situations here.

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

 

[Potatu]

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

The plot thickens.......

 

[Loliko YnT]

Do you guys think Final Fantasy having only two music tracks hinders Geno's chances at all?

Well , it could mean that they are saving up FF7 music for a Sephiroth DLC. However , there is a reason we only got 2 tracks back in Sm4sh... They cost a lot of money , and , correct me if I'm wrong , but...
SE has a big buisness in video game music. Selling CDs , musics , doing concerts and stuff. So since SSBU allow the switch to be used as a MP3 with it's soundtrack (as showned in the august direct) , I think SE didn't liked that. I think the most we could get is untouched FF7 tracks... And to be honest , I don't know if they could use One Winged Angel , it's so important to SE , I don't know if DLC budget will be enough for that.

However , Yoko , the SMRPG composer is on board with Ultimate... And SMRPG is still a Mario game. Remember , Fight against an armed boss is a remix of the Super Mario Bros 3 boss theme.

 

[Icewolff92]

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

Can you at least say if those characters are on the supposed list or not (without going into specifics of course)?

 

[Door Key Pig]

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

Are you fo'real???

 

[Fatmanonice]

Can you at least say if those characters are on the supposed list or not (without going into specifics of course)?

Yes, I think that's okay to share. The interesting thing about this and other testaments is that, if true, there's only ONE character that's real leak-bait and the rest are just the products of office rumors. It makes sense because doing this would make it that much easier to zone in on leakers instead of having a ton of names floating. If my candidates are Hooper, Scooper, and Dooper and one was turned down, I'd use one of the remaining 2 as leak bait. Like I said, negotiations for a playable character went through but people don't know the end result. If a leaker guesses right, you can catch them. If they guess wrong, that's your leak bait and you got them. Having a ton of names makes it much harder to track so I feel like this approach is much more logical.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

This seems pretty interesting, to think that Square is pulling a George Lucas in terms of stubbornly turning down a surefire possibility. The fact that there's only 3 character choices narrows things down a lot.

 

[HolyKnight]

Is it weird that kinda wanna fk hooper?

 

[owjies]

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing what you can. This also seems plausible from a simple observer's perspective given what we've learned about the legal webs surrounding each character. It doesn't surprise me at all that Square would shoot down their own characters, and It sounds like no individual Square character is a sure thing. Staying hopeful, I gotta like Geno's chances when he's the simplest to license. At any rate, major props to Sakurai and whoever else was involved, on both sides, in successfully bringing Square back on board.

 

[AugustusB]

Yes, I think that's okay to share. The interesting thing about this and other testaments is that, if true, there's only ONE character that's real leak-bait and the rest are just the products of office rumors. It makes sense because doing this would make it that much easier to zone in on leakers instead of having a ton of names floating. If my candidates are Hooper, Scooper, and Dooper and one was turned down, I'd use one of the remaining 2 as leak bait. Like I said, negotiations for a playable character went through but people don't know the end result. If a leaker guesses right, you can catch them. If they guess wrong, that's your leak bait and you got them. Having a ton of names makes it much harder to track so I feel like this approach is much more logical.

That is really interesting. So 4 of the other names are just office talk. YET they somehow made their way out to insiders to be thought that they were the Square Rep? Something really doesn't add up.

Y'all are doing some incredible work.

 

[MajoraMan28]

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

Are those 3 in that list that showed up?
Which one was cut immediatelly?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Here are the big takeaways:

-Three on the "list" are real, everyone else is heavily implied to be water cooler gossip.

-One was eliminated early and fairly publically. The creators tried to get Square to change their mind. Square squashed this pretty quick and with some speculating that this made Square a Grumpy Gus and made negotiations more difficult all around.

-There were two "finalists" with it only being known that one had serious negotiations. The end result is unknown, even by people deep inside when it comes to information.

-Based on this, if anyone speaks definitively about any of the 7 aside from the one that was turned down:

-If you've been paying attention, the rejected character has been talked about a lot to the point that just about everyone is comfortable saying "it's not them." People don't even butt heads about it aside from the one guy who's increasingly becoming a loose cannon and people are slowly starting to resent because of sheer carelessness.

-Bottom line based on this information: one's real, one's leak bait, and another is just flat out of the running. Of the remaining two, nobody is totally sure who is real and people have been super careful not to make any strong statement regarding this.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Vergeben talking about a SE rep way before the DLCs were announced make me think that , it was either a legal nightmare so they did it as soon as possible , or that Sakurai chose the charcter and SE agreed with him...

Or maybe all DLCs were decided around that time , but the others 4 weren't leaked. It wouldn't surprise me , especially if a lot of them are first party.

I still don't think the Geno spirit is all we're going to get. If it was really ALL they could get... Why not showing him in the 1st november direct , like Shantae ? And even , his token was seen for like , 2 seconds , the focus was the battle arena mode ! If they really couldn't get more , why did they... Do something like that ? Showing a token in the menu for battle arena (below Shulk , the one who can see the ****ing future mind you) to say "Hey look , Geno is in Smash as a spirit!" seem... Way over-complicated.

Or maybe they didn't cared. The battle arena menu was also showned in the last big commercial , but they used the same footage of the 1st november direct...

It was a hint , or they just didn't cared. Or they messed up , but they couldn't fix it (taking down the video and making one without the token would scream confirmation for Geno) or didn't thought it mattered that much.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Well, from that we can assume the discarded character is Sora.
Which are the two that survived, if you don't mind me asking?
Thanks for the info, btw ^^
I lol'ed at "water cooler gossip". XD