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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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EarlTamm

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Man, the idea I just came up with may not feature him as the main protagonist, but I love it to (Star)bits. What if they made an RPG based around Rosalina in her youth? I am not saying "Durring her storybook young," but it would be interesting concept to see that could have Geno show up. I always wondered how Rosalina gained so much power and how she built the observatory. It would certainly give the oppertunity to be introduced to entirely new things, like in the old RPG's.
 

Icewolff92

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I know people are tired of me talking about Dragon Quest and looking at this post and thinking "oh god, here comes another thesis" but I wanted to run through various key points in my research:

-Erdrick is only playable in one game (along with its remakes), Dragon Quest III. The last remake was in 2001.

-No Dragon Quest characters have ever been in games that Square Enix/Armor Project didn't direct, produce, and have creative control of. All crossovers have been internal.

-Goku is the head character of Bird Studio and Goku has never appeared in anything that Akira Toriyama didn't have significant creative control of. Bird Studio characters really aren't "lent out."

-When Goku appears in anything, he is primarily the focus. In Shonen Jump crossover games, he's the most prominent character from trailers to advertising. He also brings his costars in tow, outnumbering any other IPs that might be present. Dragon Ball/Bird Studio does not play second banana if it gets invited to the party.
And Goku supporters think that he could without any problem
So at this point you would argue that it's either Sepiroth or Geno it is between? I mean if it's only a musican that is on a sabatical that is the true "legal issue" then that should be able to work around would they so come to an agreement for him...
 

Lime3037

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-Goku is the head character of Bird Studio and Goku has never appeared in anything that Akira Toriyama didn't have significant creative control of. Bird Studio characters really aren't "lent out."

-When Goku appears in anything, he is primarily the focus. In Shonen Jump crossover games, he's the most prominent character from trailers to advertising. He also brings his costars in tow, outnumbering any other IPs that might be present. Dragon Ball/Bird Studio does not play second banana if it gets invited to the party.
So if Goku somehow got into Smash, they may as well replace the cover art with the art to Dragonball Fighterz. "Oh, and Nintendo characters are here, too."
 

Icewolff92

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Man, the idea I just came up with may not feature him as the main protagonist, but I love it to (Star)bits. What if they made an RPG based around Rosalina in her youth? I am not saying "Durring her storybook young," but it would be interesting concept to see that could have Geno show up. I always wondered how Rosalina gained so much power and how she built the observatory. It would certainly give the oppertunity to be introduced to entirely new things, like in the old RPG's.
To be honest, Geno feels like an character they would have used in Galaxy in order to re-introduce him would they have full control over him
 
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childishgamgeno

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Geno: JUST PUT HIM IN
He represents a partnership between SE and Nintendo in a way that no other SE character really does. It's almost like he represents the memory of what used to be kind of like a snapshot of old friends that have grown apart but are now slowly (and a bit roughly) reconnecting.

I also think that in the end the Grinch leak has shown NoA/NoJ (if they're paying attention) the kinds of characters that will make people super hype. So hypothetically maybe that would make them rethink some things regarding what characters to promote through Smash in the future for a Wave 2 of DLC.
I especially wanted to highlight that first part. You brought up a point I never considered before.

Kind of tin foil but hear me out.
Remember the argument for Dragon Quest, being that it’s a legendary series that has connections to Nintendo thus giving it a good reason to be out Square Rep?

What if Geno’s inclusion represents the era of Square-Nintendo, historically? When Square would almost exclusively release titles on Nintendo systems? I can’t think of a better candidate to represent what that partnership did for gaming THAN Geno especially because Geno was created directly for a Mario game. That puts him apart from Crono and DQ since those are SE properties. Also someone posted Sakurai quote and in it, he mentions Geno being an old character and it is likely a retro rep will fill out DLC.

I have a question for you all.

If you had to pick between getting Geno in Smash (and that he'll be in every future Smash Bros game) or doing a revival of SMRPG as a franchise , and make Geno the main protagonist for all future games (and he'll be a loved character) wich one would you chose?

I would pick the SMRPG revival route personnaly. Getting Geno in Smash would be a dream come true , but I rather give a future to Geno than making him stuck in a museum.

Granted , the biggest museum of gaming , but still.
Strangely....it’s weird but I think I’d say Smash. I think it would be a testament to fan power, and how we got what people were writing off as a one off character into one of the biggest game franchises of all time. We don’t know if the future RPG games of Mario would be good, or how Geno would fit in or be implemented, but we know Smash is gonna be good. he has such a unique situation when it comes to Smash. Like I feel like it’s just like Geno to appear in one thing, disappear and appear in another thing again.
Good morning ladies and gents. Just wanted to give a quick update before I leave here for good.

Polar and I had a chat last night and patched things over. All my intention ever was, was to share info that I'm lucky enough to receive about a game that I love. But at the end of the day, all it really is, is a game. I am hoping and praying that nobody gets into serious trouble over the info that was released here.

Last night resulted in drama that I didn't want, too many upset people, and my discord user and tag being posted on 4Chan. Things are getting too serious for my liking. I'm going to be laying low for the next little while. You'll hear from me again at some point, but I'm not sure when that will be.

Have a good one Genbros :)
Glad you guys patched it up! I appreciate your passion and enthusiasm about the game. Here’s hoping it works out for everyone in the end!

So what if both Erdrick and Geno got in? So like Square Enix hid the fact that they were going to be two new characters from them.

Basically the negotiations for them and Cloud is why Cloud was one of the last characters added in the base game.
I’d be perfectly okay with this. It’s honestly hard for me to come up with more potential fighters in Smash when I go over who could be DLC.

At this point, the only way I can see DQ getting content at all in Smash is via Mii Fighter costumes. Getting the actual characters on their own along with a stage and music would be the worst kind of legal hell to go through.
I wouldn’t mind a Mii Costime for DQ I think it would be really cool actually.


Speaking of which, quoting myself, all “compensation” Miis this time around are brand new characters. I think Saki was put in as compensation for his AT not being in. Custom Robo used to have a trophy in Brawl and is probably here to address that. Rex is also purely for the fans. He also said that hoped players felt like they were playing as Rex and I think that’s what the team does for characters that cant/don’t make it in.


Also my main is Link

But for Ultimate I’m REALLY excited to try Zelda. She seems so much faster and much more like a Magic Weaver than just a girl who can do magic from her last appearances. Im excited for Inkling as well for newcomers but that’s kind of it. Playing as Young Link again will be funnnnn
 
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Fatmanonice

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And Goku supporters think that he could without any problem
So at this point you would argue that it's either Sepiroth or Geno it is between? I mean if it's only a musican that is on a sabatical that is the true "legal issue" then that should be able to work around would they so come to an agreement for him...
I misspoke earlier. Nobou Umetsu is not on a sabbatical, he's removed himself indefinitely from the gaming industry because of an unknown illness.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...oser-nobuo-uematsu-ceases-work-due-to-illness

When people do this, it usually means cancer. Not confirmed, just my own speculation. If anything, he probably wants privacy so liscensing out his music and all the legal sit-downs that requires is more than likely out of the question. As I have mentioned before, he personally owns all the music from Final Fantasy to Final Fantasy XIV.
 

Datboigeno

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Something that really grinds my gears that relates to Geno but also applies to many other characters: Nintendo never uses the “partner” characters from SMRPG, Paper Mario, or TTYD in anything. There are so many interesting and cool characters that people really enjoy that are just left by the wayside. Look at a franchise like Zelda where new games are usually a mix of original side characters and characters from older games as well. I wish the Mario franchise would do something similar. Like imagine if instead of generic enemies you could hypothetically play as Geno, Ms. Mowz, Kooper, and the hat goomba himself Goombario In Mario Party or Mario Tennis? You can chalk it up to SE ownership for SMRPG characters never appearing but there’s really no excuse not to bring back the characters from other MARIO RPGs.
 

Icewolff92

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I misspoke earlier. Nobou Umetsu is not on a sabbatical, he's removed himself indefinitely from the gaming industry because of an unknown illness.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...oser-nobuo-uematsu-ceases-work-due-to-illness

When people do this, it usually means cancer. Not confirmed, just my own speculation. If anything, he probably wants privacy so liscensing out his music and all the legal sit-downs that requires is more than likely out of the question. As I have mentioned before, he personally owns all the music from Final Fantasy to Final Fantasy XIV.
Granted, I'm just a random Swedish indiviual typing on a forum. but why is that a problem? Wouldn't he be interested to get some money to pay medical bills or maybe have some extra money to leave for children/grandchildren?
 

Loliko YnT

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I especially wanted to highlight that first part. You brought up a point I never considered before.

Kind of tin foil but hear me out.
Remember the argument for Dragon Quest, being that it’s a legendary series that has connections to Nintendo thus giving it a good reason to be out Square Rep?

What if Geno’s inclusion represents the era of Square-Nintendo, historically? When Square would almost exclusively release titles on Nintendo systems? I can’t think of a better candidate to represent what that partnership did for gaming THAN Geno especially because Geno was created directly for a Mario game. That puts him apart from Crono and DQ since those are SE properties. Also someone posted Sakurai quote and in it, he mentions Geno being an old character and it is likely a retro rep will fill out DLC.



Strangely....it’s weird but I think I’d say Smash. I think it would be a testament to fan power, and how we got what people were writing off as a one off character into one of the biggest game franchises of all time. We don’t know if the future RPG games of Mario would be good, or how Geno would fit in or be implemented, but we know Smash is gonna be good. he has such a unique situation when it comes to Smash. Like I feel like it’s just like Geno to appear in one thing, disappear and appear in another thing again.


Glad you guys patched it up! I appreciate your passion and enthusiasm about the game. Here’s hoping it works out for everyone in the end!



I’d be perfectly okay with this. It’s honestly hard for me to come up with more potential fighters in Smash when I go over who could be DLC.



I wouldn’t mind a Mii Costime for DQ I think it would be really cool actually.


Speaking of which, quoting myself, all “compensation” Miis this time around are brand new characters. I think Saki was put in as compensation for his AT not being in. Custom Robo used to have a trophy in Brawl and is probably here to address that. Rex is also purely for the fans. He also said that hoped players felt like they were playing as Rex and I think that’s what the team does for characters that cant/don’t make it in.


Also my main is Link

But for Ultimate I’m REALLY excited to try Zelda. She seems so much faster and much more like a Magic Weaver than just a girl who can do magic from her last appearances. Im excited for Inkling as well for newcomers but that’s kind of it. Playing as Young Link again will be funnnnn
I understand that you can pick Smash.

Indeed , even if Geno appear in RPGs again , they could still flop or be bad for X reasons. (Even tho I doubt it , especially with RPGs beeing strong on the Switch).

As for Smash , it would surely be a love letter to the fans who kept pushing for him all theses years ! I can't say I understand this feeling , since I supported him pretty recently.

Also , he could be more of a "Smash character" like Jiglypuff or Game &Watch , people love them for their moveset and design , and I think Geno could fall in this category.
 

PolarPanda

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Me and Xenother have (kinda) mended relations. I do apologize for going overboard yesterday. No need for drama after all. While our information differs, I won't deny that he does have ties to Verge, though primarily Hitagi.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Something that really grinds my gears that relates to Geno but also applies to many other characters: Nintendo never uses the “partner” characters from SMRPG, Paper Mario, or TTYD in anything. There are so many interesting and cool characters that people really enjoy that are just left by the wayside. Look at a franchise like Zelda where new games are usually a mix of original side characters and characters from older games as well. I wish the Mario franchise would do something similar. Like imagine if instead of generic enemies you could hypothetically play as Geno, Ms. Mowz, Kooper, and the hat goomba himself Goombario In Mario Party or Mario Tennis? You can chalk it up to SE ownership for SMRPG characters never appearing but there’s really no excuse not to bring back the characters from other MARIO RPGs.
I blame Tanabe, given that he probably wants to stick to Miyamoto's philosophy when it comes to not going outside the comfort zone. Not even the actual Goombas with hats get to do anything.

Meanwhile, the Kirby series has no trouble experimenting, and handily brings back most of its noteworthy characters sooner or later.
 

Sovereign Trinity

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I have a question for you all.

If you had to pick between getting Geno in Smash (and that he'll be in every future Smash Bros game) or doing a revival of SMRPG as a franchise , and make Geno the main protagonist for all future games (and he'll be a loved character) wich one would you chose?

I would pick the SMRPG revival route personnaly. Getting Geno in Smash would be a dream come true , but I rather give a future to Geno than making him stuck in a museum.

Granted , the biggest museum of gaming , but still.
Screw it, I’m breaking your rule! I’d rather have both of those options! If Geno is our Square rep, then we might see a reboot or continuation of the SMRPG series since the M&L and Paper Mario series hasn’t been doing good the past few years. Pit got a new game 4 years after his inclusion in Brawl, so it’s possible for Geno; I think Isabelle counts, too, because after her inclusion, Animal Crossing for the Switch was announced. (And Isabelle is the most loved by every AC fan.)
So, at the rate we are going, when do you guys think we will surpass the Brawl thread?
Before the release of Ultimate.
 

tbuster766

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Something that really grinds my gears that relates to Geno but also applies to many other characters: Nintendo never uses the “partner” characters from SMRPG, Paper Mario, or TTYD in anything. There are so many interesting and cool characters that people really enjoy that are just left by the wayside. Look at a franchise like Zelda where new games are usually a mix of original side characters and characters from older games as well. I wish the Mario franchise would do something similar. Like imagine if instead of generic enemies you could hypothetically play as Geno, Ms. Mowz, Kooper, and the hat goomba himself Goombario In Mario Party or Mario Tennis? You can chalk it up to SE ownership for SMRPG characters never appearing but there’s really no excuse not to bring back the characters from other MARIO RPGs.
I always loved the partners from Paper Mario 64 and TTYD for those reasons. They had such interesting designs and decent back stories.
 

Lime3037

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Something that really grinds my gears that relates to Geno but also applies to many other characters: Nintendo never uses the “partner” characters from SMRPG, Paper Mario, or TTYD in anything. There are so many interesting and cool characters that people really enjoy that are just left by the wayside. Look at a franchise like Zelda where new games are usually a mix of original side characters and characters from older games as well. I wish the Mario franchise would do something similar. Like imagine if instead of generic enemies you could hypothetically play as Geno, Ms. Mowz, Kooper, and the hat goomba himself Goombario In Mario Party or Mario Tennis? You can chalk it up to SE ownership for SMRPG characters never appearing but there’s really no excuse not to bring back the characters from other MARIO RPGs.
Agreed. It's sad how they're always regulated to their own little universe.

Now, I love the minions, especially in Super Mario Party, but the RPG characters need some love, too. I'm sure plenty of people would love for the chance to play as characters like Geno, Vivian, Dimentio, Fawful, etc. in something. Mainly because they actually HAVE a character to them.

(On another note, I also think Wario characters, from both the Land and Ware series, need more outside of their games...)
 

MajoraMan28

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I misspoke earlier. Nobou Umetsu is not on a sabbatical, he's removed himself indefinitely from the gaming industry because of an unknown illness.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...oser-nobuo-uematsu-ceases-work-due-to-illness

When people do this, it usually means cancer. Not confirmed, just my own speculation. If anything, he probably wants privacy so liscensing out his music and all the legal sit-downs that requires is more than likely out of the question. As I have mentioned before, he personally owns all the music from Final Fantasy to Final Fantasy XIV.
You are incorrect. He owns music from I-XI (the last one partially).
He could have been approached earlier, and his own agents could do the legal work for him. This is not a barrier for music to be licensed and given the ok. It's a matter of someone just asking him if it's ok to use it, and given he composed the Brawl theme before, he has great relations with Sakurai and I think he would gladly accept it. We just didn't receive in the game most likely because DLC revenue is larger for S-E than raw base game sales, thus paying the necessary costs for the licensing and stuff.
 

Loliko YnT

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I blame Tanabe, given that he probably wants to stick to Miyamoto's philosophy when it comes to not going outside the comfort zone. Not even the actual Goombas with hats get to do anything.

Meanwhile, the Kirby series has no trouble experimenting, and handily brings back most of its noteworthy characters sooner or later.
I-I mean , if a goomba and a koopa can be playable in Super Mario Party , why not Goombario or Kooper ? Yeah , not as iconic , but they have much more personnality , have simple design , and even the casuals could like them.

Yeah , I know Miyamoto isn't the one to take risks with his characters , but still... We have a freaking Blooper in Mario party 8 as a playable character... A BLOOPER.
 

7NATOR

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I'm worried that with Nintendo's apparent tone-deafness about Isaac's popularity, Geno will fall to the same fate...

Then again, I just don't know how any of these other Square reps will get in.

Sephiroth - The DLC packs REQUIRE new music and a new stage, and we all know how stingy SE is being with the Final Fantasy representation.

Erdrick / DQ rep - Heard some really bad things about the composer. Apparently he only lets the DQ devs use his music and is basically holding Square Enix by the balls because he is so talented.

Crono - Again, music/licensing
Time to still got Sephiroth

So this whole stingy thing going on with Square, you got to remember that Smash Ultimate is the first time I can remember that we have Square enix content in a primiarly Non-Square game ever since DLC has become a standard. Since DLC, Square I sense usually likes to put their stuff as DLC. They gain more profits from DLC then they would in base game, cause you have to share base game profits with all the other 3rd parties involved along with Nintendo, and thats just within the game. DLC allows more of the profits to go Square

Because of all the loyalties, especially concerning music, that final fantasy has, to can see why we have the amount of content we do In base game. Its so they can add the rest of the content later...for example, Sephiroth and one winged angel. It may be dirty, but it's smart
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I know people are tired of me talking about Dragon Quest and looking at this post and thinking "oh god, here comes another thesis" but I wanted to run through various key points in my research:

-Erdrick is only playable in one game (along with its remakes), Dragon Quest III. The last remake was in 2001.

-No Dragon Quest characters have ever been in games that Square Enix/Armor Project didn't direct, produce, and have creative control of. All crossovers have been internal.

-Goku is the head character of Bird Studio and Goku has never appeared in anything that Akira Toriyama didn't have significant creative control of. Bird Studio characters really aren't "lent out."

-When Goku appears in anything, he is primarily the focus. In Shonen Jump crossover games, he's the most prominent character from trailers to advertising. He also brings his costars in tow, outnumbering any other IPs that might be present. Dragon Ball/Bird Studio does not play second banana if it gets invited to the party.
Good to know there's proof that Goku voters are completely wasting their time.

Agreed. It's sad how they're always regulated to their own little universe.

Now, I love the minions, especially in Super Mario Party, but the RPG characters need some love, too. I'm sure plenty of people would love for the chance to play as characters like Geno, Vivian, Dimentio, Fawful, etc. in something. Mainly because they actually HAVE a character to them.

(On another note, I also think Wario characters, from both the Land and Ware series, need more outside of their games...)
Preach. To. The. Choir.

It's all well and good to be in the comfort zone of Japanese culture and have easily accessible games with easily accessible characters that won't confuse younger audiences, but at some point people eventually get tired of the same thing over and over again, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten Mario Maker as a response to New SMB.

(Seriously, I hope that the Land and Ware characters get to do stuff as well, that doesn't default to just lending out Ashley.)

Time to still got Sephiroth

So this whole stingy thing going on with Square, you got to remember that Smash Ultimate is the first time I can remember that we have Square enix content in a primiarly Non-Square game ever since DLC has become a standard. Since DLC, Square I sense usually likes to put their stuff as DLC. They gain more profits from DLC then they would in base game, cause you have to share base game profits with all the other 3rd parties involved along with Nintendo, and thats just within the game. DLC allows more of the profits to go Square

Because of all the loyalties, especially concerning music, that final fantasy has, to can see why we have the amount of content we do In base game. Its so they can add the rest of the content later...for example, Sephiroth and one winged angel. It may be dirty, but it's smart
Admittedly, you're right. They won't get much of anything out of this deal if all their stuff is already in the game.
 
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TheBeastHimself

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I don't know if it's just me, but now that the game is basically a week away, the wait is going to feel 10 times longer than it did when it was months away.
 

Gum-Gum Smash

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I wanted to apologize. I know that I just made an account and that this is the Geno thread, and that I keep talking about Dragon Quest, Crono and my 50/50 stance on Spirits. I just keep seeing other people bring it up. No matter if I'm right, or other people, looking at the statistics and chances for other characters Square owns isn't going to change what's been decided. Even if Square doesn't get a rep, and Geno gets shafted again, I think the best thing this thread could do is continue to support Geno, no matter who makes it in. That's why people are here yeah?
 

Lime3037

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I don't know if it's just me, but now that the game is basically a week away, the wait is going to feel 10 times longer than it did when it was months away.
Yuuuup...
My days at work are already feeling longer. Next Thursday especially is going to feel like an eternity.
 

FCZHornet

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Got some paid time off for release day, GameCube adapter and a fresh controller. We ought to swap some friend codes and battle!
 

RingJ5

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Add Isaac to the mix. For as long as Isaac wasin Brawl and the series sold very well, they wanted him in Smash.

Kind of makes you wonder...how the **** did they go 10 years without knowing which characters would send the crowds wild!?
This is what I’ve been worried about. If the DLC really was picked back in 2015, and by Nintendo specifically. If they were shocked by the reactions to Isaac and K. Rool, DLC could end up being an absolute ****show.

“People loved the Cloud reveal and want Goku? We need Chrono, then!”

“Fan-demand for Linkle was at its peak two months ago, clearly it’ll be the same three years from now!” (note: I wouldn’t actually be against Linkle, just providing examples)

“Monster Hunter is huge, let’s add them!” (same for this one, it’d actually be neat)

“Let’s save this slot for whatever we need to market in a couple years, details can be worked out later.

(two years later)

...Euden it is!”

“Finally, we need a big megaton character that’ll get everyone excited, and Microsoft wants to talk to us about DLC... that’s perfect, let’s add Steve!”

Though I would again not be remotely opposed to Linkle or MH, I’m worried that something along these lines is what Nintendo would choose as DLC, if they really didn’t expect the positive/negative reactions seen so far regarding certain characters.
 
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DaxMasterix

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I wanted to apologize. I know that I just made an account and that this is the Geno thread, and that I keep talking about Dragon Quest, Crono and my 50/50 stance on Spirits. I just keep seeing other people bring it up. No matter if I'm right, or other people, looking at the statistics and chances for other characters Square owns isn't going to change what's been decided. Even if Square doesn't get a rep, and Geno gets shafted again, I think the best thing this thread could do is continue to support Geno, no matter who makes it in. That's why people are here yeah?
Thanks! As for myself, I'm pretty confident on Geno! But... If this is the wrong timeline again, I will keep cheering for this Puppet Gunner Mage ;D
 

domriver

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Geno in his own game? hmmm - That would be interesting. I guess he would still take on his puppet form since we do not know what his true form is. ( a star?) In his world Smithy is there so I guess they can go by that. Smithy seems more aggressive than Bowser. I expect a darker theme approach if Geno is going to have an adventure.
 

Fatmanonice

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You are incorrect. He owns music from I-XI (the last one partially).
He could have been approached earlier, and his own agents could do the legal work for him. This is not a barrier for music to be licensed and given the ok. It's a matter of someone just asking him if it's ok to use it, and given he composed the Brawl theme before, he has great relations with Sakurai and I think he would gladly accept it. We just didn't receive in the game most likely because DLC revenue is larger for S-E than raw base game sales, thus paying the necessary costs for the licensing and stuff.
Nobou Umetsu has a company called Dog Ear Records but he personally owns the music to those Final Fantasy games. I also disagree that he'd be easy to work with because most industry accounts say the direct opposite. Case in point: he only allowed two straight PlayStation 1 rips in Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate so far. Keep in mind that these were originally paid DLC and he barely budged with the incentive of money. He's very protective of his music overall. I'm also hard pressed to believe One Winged Angel is worth that much of a fight over.
 
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Thanks! As for myself, I'm pretty confident on Geno! But... If this is the wrong timeline again, I will keep cheering for this Puppet Gunner Mage ;D
Same here! I will never lose hope in Geno no matter the circumstances :) His chances are looking really good right now
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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I felt like making a moveset for Geno. I'm sure there's been plenty of them, but I wanted to do it anyway.

General Idea: Glass cannon with tons of disjoints and ridiculous stage presence, but fairly easy to KO when he's in disadvantage.

Attributes:
-Weight: similar weight to Kirby, he's a puppet made of wood after all. Not very heavy.
-Ground speed: slow. faster than ganondorf in smash 4, but not by a significant amount.
-Air speed: Slightly slower than Jigglypuff/Wario.
-Fall speed: very floaty, around Rosalina level. landing is gonna be a problem for him.
-1 midair jump
-cannot crawl
Two Unique mechanics:
-Geno Boost allows him to be stronger and faster sometimes, see Down B.
-Rocket punch, some of his moves send out his fist, or both fists. These moves are typically very fast, but they can't be used again immediately, because the fist has to travel back to Geno before he can use it again. Think of Link's boomerang or K rool's crown. He has two fists, so the 1-fist moves can be used twice in a row with a slightly different animation. 2-fist moves can only be used once before waiting. The fists do NOT have a hitbox on the way back. Also, if a rocket punch hits the ledge, it'll pull Geno in similar to a tether.

Moves:
Jab - A fast one-two punch combo, followed by launching a fist forward for the finisher. The fist doesn't travel very far forward.
Ftilt - A forward punch followed by a flex for two hits. Based on the animation for the arm cannon, but doesn't fire bullets.
Dtilt - Low sweeping kick, creates stars in front of him for a bit of a disjoint.
Utilt - Geno lifts his hat up like in the item use animation, then puts it back down. Short range, but fast.

Nair - He spins in a circle, with the geno whirl thing surrounding him. Very fast move.
Fair - He shoots his hand forward for a rocket punch, which then returns to him later. It travels like Villager/Isabelle fair/bair, but then moves back after accelerating in the opposite direction.
Bair - Similar to Fair, but he launches both hands and is launched forward slightly from the recoil. Similar function to Corrin's Bair, but longer range/disjoint.
Upair - A star pops out above Geno while he does that "praise the sun" pose, a slow powerful attack with a small hitbox, great kill move, bad for juggling. Similar to Zelda's Upair.
Dair - Geno stomps downward, both of his feet rocketing downward a bit. Similar mechanic to rocket punches, but only applies to this move. Functions mostly like Megaman's dair.

F-Smash - The charging animation for this move has him open his arm more and more for the bullets he's about to fire. Uncharged is finger bullets, half-charged is arm cannon, full charge is two handed arm cannon. Not a projectile, has the range of Mii Gunner fsmash. Kinda weak uncharged, but very strong fully charged.
D-Smash - Sends a rocket punch in both directions, one after the other. Like Mii Gunner's dsmash, but with projectiles. Uses both fists, of course.
U-Smash - Geno Blast! It sends out a pillar of rainbow light above him similar to Palutena's usmash, but directly above him instead of in front.

His grab uses the rocket hand mechanic, but if both hands are away, he can still grab, just with bad range. Works mostly like a tether grab, but he doesn't have a zair.
His throws involve tossing the opponent in the direction of the throw, and covering them in stars as he does. His down throw is stepping on them and firing some bullets before they get launched away.

Specials:
Down B - Geno Boost! 60 frames long, but if it finishes he deals 1.2x damage (not knockback) and moves a bit faster for 15 seconds. He cannot use it again until 25 seconds have passed, even if he was interrupted before it came into effect.

Side B - Geno Whirl! A very fast projectile that moves until it hits a wall or goes offscreen, piercing players. Max range is longer than left side of FD to offscreen. Doesn't do much damage or knockback, but if you press B again when it hits the enemy, it becomes a pretty good kill move. The hitbox is very small, and pressing B makes it have the strong hitbox for 1 frame, and you can only do it once, making it very difficult to use. Geno can't move until the projectile is gone.

Up B - Geno Flash! Geno transforms into a cannon and shoots himself out of it. Similar to Diddy's up b, it can be charged to go higher, but he will fall while using it. He can't redirect himself midair as well as Diddy, and the move deals no damage except for right at the cannon itself, but he can act very quickly after firing. Can only be used for recovery once midair. VERY bad for recovering, but incredibly useful movement option on-stage.
It goes much higher when grounded. If you use Up B midair after using it once already, Geno will explode and create a VERY strong kill move, followed by him going into freefall.

Neutral B - Geno Beam! Basically, a chargeable falcon punch laser. There are four levels of charge, based on the star charge meter.
-One star charge takes about as long as a Warlock Punch at minimum, but isn't nearly as strong due to having much more range. Strong enough to kill at around 120% on most characters.
-Two star charge takes about 2 seconds (fully charged smash attack time, approximately), and is slightly weaker than a Falcon punch. The laser is now about half as tall as Geno.
-Three star charge takes about 6 seconds total, and is deadly. Approximately as powerful as Jigg's rest. The laser is also as tall as Geno's entire body.
-Four star charge takes about 6.5 seconds total, and is worthless. He shoots out a star projectile that deals minimal knockback and damage.

Final Smash: Wish!
Geno summons a large star in front of him, catching one person and sending them to star road, where the 7 star pieces assemble, and Geno makes a wish... followed by everyone that he caught in it being launched.
 
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MajoraMan28

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Nobou Umetsu has a company called Dog Ear Records but he personally owns the music to those Final Fantasy games. I also disagree that he'd be easy to work with because most industry accounts say the direct opposite. Case in point: he only allowed two straight PlayStation 1 rips in Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate so far. Keep in mind that these were originally paid DLC and he barely budged with the incentive of money. He's very protective of his music overall. I'm also hard pressed to believe One Winged Angel is worth that much of a fight over.
Hence why his agents would do the work for him in case of absence. This is a legal measure commonly taken with people who are incapacitated by disease or some major issue that comes up with the artist in question.
And correction: S-E did. Sakurai has known the man for more than a decade, annualy meeting him at the now deceased Press Start concerts. He has a great relationship with him and I truly doubt Uematsu would be hesitant with him. Also worth remembering, the Cloud DLC marked the very beginning of Nintendo and S-E getting closer again after almost two decades, so it's understandable that they weren't going overboard with the licensing being available, letting Sakurai play with a stage, model of Midgar for reference, three musics, Cloud, two trophies, an alt from a Sony produced movie and the numerous references. And considering the restrictive conditions, this was a lot more than expected.
I think now is a lot more doable with S-E also being in desperate need of money to compensate their recent losses. They would go for DLC without a doubt.
 
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Loliko YnT

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I wanted to apologize. I know that I just made an account and that this is the Geno thread, and that I keep talking about Dragon Quest, Crono and my 50/50 stance on Spirits. I just keep seeing other people bring it up. No matter if I'm right, or other people, looking at the statistics and chances for other characters Square owns isn't going to change what's been decided. Even if Square doesn't get a rep, and Geno gets shafted again, I think the best thing this thread could do is continue to support Geno, no matter who makes it in. That's why people are here yeah?
Well , you weren't rude , and theses topics are pretty heavily connected to Geno's chances in Smash , so you're not off-topic. There is no need to apologize.

And yeah , we could say anything , it won't affect the DLC. The Geno fanbase was vocal when it mattered most , and if they didn't hear us , let's be louder next time ! Even SE could see that and see potential in Geno.
 

DaxMasterix

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About Uematsu-sama, you have to remember that Cloud got only 2 Tracks.
It may be "not-that-hard" to get some paperwork and get more but, I'm pretty sure that it cost muuuuch more than Shimomura. In terms of time and money. Or only money if you get that time, cost money.

Edit: What are you listening to guys?
https://youtu.be/bgt-otEFEss
 
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CrusherMania1592

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Nintendo hasn't been thinking of ATs as a bad thing. TBH, in smash 4 the backlash to ATs was much smaller. Isaac was a cut AT, so they saw people were worried about his AT being cut, and brought it back. Truly, the best thing to do is push the narrative that AT is just a graveyard and that it upsets people. That, and they only see massive demand most of the time. While Isaac demand is huge, it didn't reach them nearly as well as the Ridley and K Rool demands. Isaac fans just need to be more vocal AT Nintendo, and need to be more vocal for a NEW GAME.
Which is why I believe that Isaac is one of the bigger names to be put in Smash now that King K Rool and Ridley are finally confirmed and out of the picture. Other characters like Toad (who is doomed from Melee atm), Dixie Kong, Geno, Skull Kid, Bandanna Dee are some of the more iconic characters that have yet to even hit their spots in Smash yet.

Time to still got Sephiroth

So this whole stingy thing going on with Square, you got to remember that Smash Ultimate is the first time I can remember that we have Square enix content in a primiarly Non-Square game ever since DLC has become a standard. Since DLC, Square I sense usually likes to put their stuff as DLC. They gain more profits from DLC then they would in base game, cause you have to share base game profits with all the other 3rd parties involved along with Nintendo, and thats just within the game. DLC allows more of the profits to go Square

Because of all the loyalties, especially concerning music, that final fantasy has, to can see why we have the amount of content we do In base game. Its so they can add the rest of the content later...for example, Sephiroth and one winged angel. It may be dirty, but it's smart
I'm fine with this if we were able to get Geno as well with some SMRPG and FF themes
 

Fatmanonice

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I feel like the jump would have already been made if that were the case. No new concessions have been made. No new music (again, despite the relationship you pointed out). No assist trophy. No spirits of Final Fantasy characters despite a 30 year history. Cloud even has the same animations as Smash 4. Compare that to all the other third parties. Even Ubisoft with its lack of playable characters had more content in this game than Smash 4. It paints a picture that Square is, in fact, not easy to work with. Would a second Final Fantasy VII character, stage, and maybe one straight music rip be worth this?
 

Nekoo

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Something to consider.
Just a food for thought.

What if, instead of getting through the assle of asking for new things and just new deals in general. Or because they're difficult to deal with

Sakurai could have just went for a renewal since the Smash4DLC and Project plan ended at the same times. And it would have cost less to just take what he already had right now?
 

Icewolff92

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About Uematsu-sama, you have to remember that Cloud got only 2 Tracks.
It may be "not-that-hard" to get some paperwork and get more but, I'm pretty sure that it cost muuuuch more than Shimomura. In terms of time and money. Or only money if you get that time, cost money.

Edit: What are you listening to guys?
https://youtu.be/bgt-otEFEss
SE is known for wanting their content to be DLC then being in the base roster. Who says that they didn't say something among the lines of
"Do you want more, you have to add it as DLC"?

To answer your question about music. Mostly Jonathan Young and Miracle of Sound right now
 
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MajoraMan28

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I feel like the jump would have already been made if that were the case. No new concessions have been made. No new music (again, despite the relationship you pointed out). No assist trophy. No spirits of Final Fantasy characters despite a 30 year history. Cloud even has the same animations as Smash 4. Compare that to all the other third parties. Even Ubisoft with its lack of playable characters had more content in this game than Smash 4. It paints a picture that Square is, in fact, not easy to work with. Would a second Final Fantasy VII character, stage, and maybe one straight music rip be worth this?
You seem to be ignoring the bigger picture.
A lot of characters in the game have the same animations as in Smash 4. This argument is empty of value.
The idea is that new content should be available with the Sephiroth DLC, bc the revenue for S-E would be much higher than the money they would get from the base game. This also isn't a new practice for them, given their guest appearances in other fighting games. We are the only ones to have their IP on the base game, actually. Their licenses are more expensive than the norm, but working with them wasn't a hassle, from the interview that you posted in this thread. They are perfectionists, but aren't demanding with the use of the content they provide, given how Sakurai states they had the usual compliments and criticism while having no big demands for him. You can see he had fun with the character being added.

I also think that we should root for two S-E characters in the season pass or passes. They are the third party with the best cast of classic characters to choose from. Even if having 3 S-E chars sounds a bit too much.
 
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Icewolff92

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Something to consider.
Just a food for thought.

What if, instead of getting through the assle of asking for new things and just new deals in general. Or because they're difficult to deal with

Sakurai could have just went for a renewal since the Smash4DLC and Project plan ended at the same times. And it would have cost less to just take what he already had right now?
That too.
 

domriver

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Something to consider.
Just a food for thought.

What if, instead of getting through the assle of asking for new things and just new deals in general. Or because they're difficult to deal with

Sakurai could have just went for a renewal since the Smash4DLC and Project plan ended at the same times. And it would have cost less to just take what he already had right now?
See I think the negotiations took place during DLC Smash WiiU/3Ds with the agreement that it will carry over to Smash Ultimate. What i think may have happened is that Square saw Sales of Cloud and Geno Mii Costume and wanted more ( for Ultimate) knowing that these characters were very well received. Which probably forced Nintendo to come back with Square to the table to amend the negotiations. These things will never be said in P.R from Nintendo or Square they will downplay it in some sort of way. Just a thought.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I think it's a mix of both. Sakurai reusing premade assets to make things easier, and SE demanding the bulk of their stuff (presumably) to be Ultimate DLC.

So if Goku somehow got into Smash, they may as well replace the cover art with the art to Dragonball Fighterz. "Oh, and Nintendo characters are here, too."
Goku/Dragon Ball and Nintendo All-Stars Smashing, coming to a Switch near you.
 
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