Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[owjies]

Wait, what Chun-Li rumors? Why would they add a third Street Fighter character?

I believe Banjo-Kazooie and Monster Hunter are going to happen. And possibly Steve too.

But where does this Chun-Li stuff come from?

Xenother mentioned it last night. Apparently Chun-Li was planned originally and scrapped due to complications with her moveset. To me, it sounds a lot like Krystal / Wolf back in Brawl. Apparently Sakurai considered Krystal early but opted for Wolf due to time and resource constraints. Since bringing everyone back was the focus, making Ken an echo fighter with some unique properties and animations makes a lot of sense.

Edit: Chun-Li calls back to my previous post because if she had been chosen over Ken, Capcom would have 3 unique fighters. Since she was at least planned this might open the door to the possibility that each third party could potentially have more than 2 unique fighters.

 

[ThreeT]

I've been reading through this thread for awhile now, and just wanted to say how appreciative I am of all this new info. One thing that I've been looking for now is how the DLC would be decided and why certain characters were deconfirmed. I also wanted a better way of understanding the recent leaks that have been going on and how likely these rumored characters are. I feel I got a pretty good understanding thanks to this thread and just wanted to say thank you because of it. While my number 2 most wanted character was Geno, the main one I wanted was Rex so understanding that he's likely compensation both annoys me and has me relieved. I don't want to put too much hope in a character that will likely not make the Wave 1 DLC, so I think I will give it a rest for now. Overall I just wanted to get good grasp of the situation and I appreciate people like Polarpanda for giving what many people asked for! With Rex being pretty unlikely, I'll give my support to Geno, but still remain skeptical none the less.

 

[domriver]

To follow up on the questions which characters i chose and why:

So when i first got SMASH 64 i fell in love with the game. Characters wise - i primarily used Kirby and Ness. Because of their playstyle.
When melee came along (ditched Ness and Kirby) - I used mostly Ganondorf because i like bad guys plus heavy guy. - I chose Ganondorf because he is a heavy weight and strong like me!
When Brawl came out - I ditched Ganondorf and used King Dedede i knew he was a semi bad guy plus he is strong and big/fat and slow soo all those apply to me. LOL I really enjoy King Dedede's playstyle as well. I also used Sonic because i was/am a huge Sonic fan. I remember geeking out when Sonic reveal happened.
Now on to WiiU/3ds - i kept King Dedede and Sonic - i added Megaman (huge fan) , Pac-man (playstyle), Bayonetta (huge fan) , Palutena (playstyle) I primarily use those like 95% of the time. When im determined to win I use King Dedede LOL.

Ultimate - well game isnt out yet but i intend to keep all characters in usage adding - Ridley and King K Rool and POSSIBLY Piranha Plant and Ritcher unsure for sure 1 of them. If Sakurai/Nintendo blesses us with Geno he will be my #1 i will make him my * imma win this match character*

 

[Gum-Gum Smash]

So what if both Erdrick and Geno got in? So like Square Enix hid the fact that they were going to be two new characters from them.

Basically the negotiations for them and Cloud is why Cloud was one of the last characters added in the base game.

Maybe. I mean Dragon Quest is kinda hard to believe still, but it would make more sense if Geno was with Erdrick

Edit: Didn't Cloud being last come from Square wanting to make everything DLC? And the one guy on Twitter. I said this before, but it would make sense for Dragon Quest to be in because Square twisted their arms with Cloud. Otherwise even Crono or Sephiroth make more sense, leaks aside

 

[FalconFire93]

I may be a tad late on this, but Happy 400 pages! Here's to 100 more, if the thread decides to go on!

 

[Gum-Gum Smash]

Xenother mentioned it last night. Apparently Chun-Li was planned originally and scrapped due to complications with her moveset. To me, it sounds a lot like Krystal / Wolf back in Brawl. Apparently Sakurai considered Krystal early but opted for Wolf due to time and resource constraints. Since bringing everyone back was the focus, making Ken an echo fighter with some unique properties and animations makes a lot of sense.

Edit: Chun-Li calls back to my previous post because if she had been chosen over Ken, Capcom would have 3 unique fighters. Since she was at least planned this might open the door to the possibility that each third party could potentially have more than 2 unique fighters.

Yes, but that's assuming Ken still would have been put in if Chun-Li was. It sounds to me like he was more of a replacement, still leaving only two

 

[Looma]

I have a question for everyone. Do you guys select your main based on your favorite character or whoever's playstyle you like? As you might be able to tell, I chose my mains based on my favorite characters, and coincidentally I love their playstyle.

I tend to gravitate towards characters I have some kind of attachment too, but playstyle is what determines whether I keep them or not. I've always really liked Lucario, and he's clicked with me since Brawl. Sadly Samus and Captain Falcon got screwed in the transition from Melee to Brawl, so I ended up ditching them.

I like Sonic a lot but didn't really mesh with him until Sm4sh (where I started REALLY liking him) despite him being a character that I freaked out over when first revealed. Mega Man and Wario I'm also pretty consistent with playing. I think K. Rool's a riot and his moveset has me intrigued. Simon's also on the table for me, as I love both range and Castlevania.

Of course, I also fall in love with the oddballs, R.O.B. in particular. I'd likely be really into Geno if he would play how I envision him.

I swear if Samus and Dark Samus aren't generously buffed in Ultimate...

 

[Datboigeno]

Ouch at the not so subtle dig there.

;^)

 

[DaxMasterix]

I have a question for everyone. Do you guys select your main based on your favorite character or whoever's playstyle you like? As you might be able to tell, I chose my mains based on my favorite characters, and coincidentally I love their playstyle.

Fav character for sure, I started in melee with Yoshi and Now is my main on every game.
However, I do play with them all, I like to be able to fight againt 3 lvl9 CPU Players and win with all of the characters before going to full Yoshi too.

 

[Tetiro]

I'm moreso wondering what Nintendo thought of the Grinch leak. It definitely got enough publicity for them to at least notice it, but what did they actually think of it? As a Shadow fan I kind of hope that was a wake-up call for him, but Isaac, Geno and Banjo-Kazooie all being in there probably had them all confused.

How would Geno, Isaac and Banjo have them all confused?

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

How would Geno, Isaac and Banjo have them all confused?

Probably should have worded that better. We're hearing now that Nintendo wasn't aware how huge the demand for Isaac was, I'm curious if the same applies to Banjo and Geno.

 

[UberPyro64]

As far as I'm concerned, most third party franchises could get like six reps.

Metal Gear: Big Boss, The Boss, Liquid Snake, Ocelot, Raiden
Sonic: Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Eggman
Mega Man: Proto Man, Wily, X, Zero, Sigma
Street Fighter: Chun-Li, Guile, M. Bison, Akuma
Final Fantasy: Zack, Sephiroth, Terra, Celes, Kefka
Castlevania: Alucard, Dracula, Soma Cruz, Shanoa (also add a Trevor Belmont skin to Simon and a Leon Belmont skin to Richter)

It's a little harder for Pac-Man and Bayonetta, but Ms. Pac-Man and Jeanne would make good Echo Fighters though.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Probably should have worded that better. We're hearing now that Nintendo wasn't aware how huge the demand for Isaac was, I'm curious if the same applies to Banjo and Geno.

We golden sun fans just know nintendo is now aware of our demand. As for Banjo and Geno, I am pretty sure they now know for banjo and geno they have knew for quite awhile.

 

[owjies]

Yes, but that's assuming Ken still would have been put in if Chun-Li was. It sounds to me like he was more of a replacement, still leaving only two

You're right, but I just mean that if she was planned then the quota of two unique fighters per 3rd party might not mean as much to Sakurai and Nintendo as it does to us. Basically, if they see a good reason to add a 3rd unique they're probably not afraid to break that quota if it even exists.

 

[Tetiro]

Probably should have worded that better. We're hearing now that Nintendo wasn't aware how huge the demand for Isaac was, I'm curious if the same applies to Banjo and Geno.

Ahhh yeh that makes more sense.

If I recall, weren't they surprised how popular King K Rool was?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

How would Geno, Isaac and Banjo have them all confused?

They genuinely didn't know people wanted isaac as a fighter. They thought a small number of people wanted his assist trophy back, so that's why he is the way he is (that and he's from a dead series). We can only assume the same is true for Banjo and potentially Geno.

 

[EarlTamm]

I have a question for everyone. Do you guys select your main based on your favorite character or whoever's playstyle you like? As you might be able to tell, I chose my mains based on my favorite characters, and coincidentally I love their playstyle.

I select my characters by a mixture of how well I can play as them and how fun they are for me.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

As far as I'm concerned, most third party franchises could get like six reps.

Metal Gear: Big Boss, The Boss, Liquid Snake, Ocelot, Raiden
Sonic: Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Eggman
Mega Man: Proto Man, Wily, X, Zero, Sigma
Street Fighter: Chun-Li, Guile, M. Bison, Akuma
Final Fantasy: Zack, Sephiroth, Terra, Celes, Kefka
Castlevania: Alucard, Dracula, Soma Cruz, Shanoa (also add a Trevor Belmont skin to Simon and a Leon Belmont skin to Richter)

It's a little harder for Pac-Man and Bayonetta, but Ms. Pac-Man and Jeanne would make good Echo Fighters though.

Or Bayonetta's mom, Rosa, could be another Bayo rep.

 

[Tetiro]

Or Bayonetta's mom, Rosa, could be another Bayo rep.

Balder, Jeanne, Rodin, Loki to name a few. Bayonetta has more than enough

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Ahhh yeh that makes more sense.

If I recall, weren't they surprised how popular King K Rool was?

Indeed they were, which is why I'm curious about the others. Shadow I can understand as his popularity exploded too late, but Banjo & Geno have had followings for a long time.

 

[Tetiro]

Indeed they were, which is why I'm curious about the others. Shadow I can understand as his popularity exploded too late, but Banjo & Geno have had followings for a long time.

Add Isaac to the mix. For as long as Isaac wasin Brawl and the series sold very well, they wanted him in Smash.

Kind of makes you wonder...how the **** did they go 10 years without knowing which characters would send the crowds wild!?

 

[Paperchampion23]

Probably should have worded that better. We're hearing now that Nintendo wasn't aware how huge the demand for Isaac was, I'm curious if the same applies to Banjo and Geno.

It definitely didnt. Sakurai has considered Banjo since as early as Smash 64 and Geno since brawl. Isaac has never received those acknowledgements, though im inclined they know that people want him how.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Much respect to you, man. Phoenix is one of the best characters I've had the pleasure of playing as. His internal humor is my favorite part about him, because that's so much like me--being modest on the outside, but screaming about how stupid/crazy someone is on the inside, lol.

I wish he had been in Smash in some form, even a spirit...oh well. One day!

That's what DLC is for mate.

 

[EarlTamm]

After thinking for some time about that whole Smash bros vs revival question from earlier, I am curious to ask something. If Geno were to split off and become the protagonist of his own Geno RPG series, what sort of game do you think it would be like? Would it stay very close to its SMRPG roots or go in a diffrent direction with similar mechanic's? What sort of story and themes would it have? There is a lot of creative potential in this topic of discussion.

 

[Tetiro]

It definitely didnt. Sakurai has considered Banjo since as early as Smash 64 and Geno since brawl. Isaac has never received those acknowledgements, though im inclined they know that people want him how.

Well after the outcry from the November Direct, there is no denying it now.

Plus looking at the offerings Golden Sun got, it's clear they are paying attention as putting the lack of playable character aside, what we got was pretty darn good.

 

[Potatu]

After thinking for some time about that whole Smash bros vs revival question from earlier, I am curious to ask something. If Geno were to split off and become the protagonist of his own Geno RPG series, what sort of game do you think it would be like? Would it stay very close to its SMRPG roots or go in a diffrent direction with similar mechanic's? What sort of story and themes would it have? There is a lot of creative potential in this topic of discussion.

I'd love to have Mallow as the 2nd main character or at least be an important character in the game.

 

[EarlTamm]

I'd love to have Mallow as the 2nd main character or at least be an important character in the game.

I imagine that would be the case. I don't think he would be the second party member again, as only having magic users till the third party member seems a bit odd.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Meant "suggestions" rather for the wording, but you get my meaning.
Another thing to consider is that we've known for a while now Sakurai is buds with Yuji Horii (Dragon Quest's creator) and there's still that old Nintendo Dream round-table discussion from August 2016 that I've had a hard time overlooking possible relevance to Smash way before Ultimate was ever even revealed.
I guess my point is don't jump the hype gun yet and assume Geno will be it.
We still don't know what's goin' on for sure and it's hard to ignore certain aspects and possibilities that could've made Dragon Quest get the nod.
"Hype responsibly" as the saying goes.

I wanted to talk about this topic.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/06/16/solid-snake-joins-the-brawl-translation/

Sakurai literally had Kojima ask him to put Snake in a Smash game. Despite this, Sakurai says here and elsewhere that all IP owners need to be on board and that the opinions of other character owners are taken into consideration too given that the characters interact with one another. This also explains in part to why Snake wasn't in Smash 4.

Yugii Hori is just one piece of the puzzle (Armor Project) in this hypothetical for a playable DQ character. You'd still need Nintendo, Square Enix (asset holder for DQ), Bird Studio (owns all DQ characters), and Koichi Sugiyama (owns all DQ music) all on board, with Heart Beat* as an additional party needed for Erdrick, working in cooperation.

*Heart Beat is a dissolved company but legally still owns a portion of Erdrick because his latest design is from the Super Nintendo remake of Dragon Quest III that they developed. Heart Beat was dissolved willingly and the legal explanation of how it can still have legal rights to IPs is explained here:

https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/5913/what-happens-to-ip-owned-by-a-defunct-company

 

[MattX20]

I wanted to talk about this topic.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/06/16/solid-snake-joins-the-brawl-translation/

Sakurai literally had Kojima ask him to put Snake in a Smash game. Despite this, Sakurai says here and elsewhere that all IP owners need to be on board and that the opinions of other character owners are taken into consideration too given that the characters interact with one another. This also explains in part to why Snake wasn't in Smash 4.

Yugii Hori is just one piece of the puzzle (Armor Project) in this hypothetical for a playable DQ character. You'd still need Nintendo, Square Enix (asset holder for DQ), Bird Studio (owns all DQ characters), and Koichi Sugiyama (owns all DQ music) all on board, with Heart Beat* as an additional party needed for Erdrick, working in cooperation.

*Heart Beat is a dissolved company but legally still owns a portion of Erdrick because his latest design is from the Super Nintendo remake of Dragon Quest III that they developed. Heart Beat was dissolved willingly and the legal explanation of how it can still have legal rights to IPs is explained here:

https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/5913/what-happens-to-ip-owned-by-a-defunct-company

At this point, the only way I can see DQ getting content at all in Smash is via Mii Fighter costumes. Getting the actual characters on their own along with a stage and music would be the worst kind of legal hell to go through.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

At this point, the only way I can see DQ getting content at all in Smash is via Mii Fighter costumes. Getting the actual characters on their own along with a stage and music would be the worst kind of legal hell to go through.

Don't the costumes count for the characters' likeness as far as copyright is concerned?

 

[Geno Boost]

As far as I'm concerned, most third party franchises could get like six reps.

Metal Gear: Big Boss, The Boss, Liquid Snake, Ocelot, Raiden
Sonic: Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Eggman
Mega Man: Proto Man, Wily, X, Zero, Sigma
Street Fighter: Chun-Li, Guile, M. Bison, Akuma
Final Fantasy: Zack, Sephiroth, Terra, Celes, Kefka
Castlevania: Alucard, Dracula, Soma Cruz, Shanoa (also add a Trevor Belmont skin to Simon and a Leon Belmont skin to Richter)

It's a little harder for Pac-Man and Bayonetta, but Ms. Pac-Man and Jeanne would make good Echo Fighters though.

I played Pac-man games it's not hard for me to name another 5 reps
-Ms. Pac-man as an echo
-Toc-man
-Spooky
-Erwin
-Blinky/Clyde/Pinky/Inky

 

[Gum-Gum Smash]

I wanted to talk about this topic.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/06/16/solid-snake-joins-the-brawl-translation/

Sakurai literally had Kojima ask him to put Snake in a Smash game. Despite this, Sakurai says here and elsewhere that all IP owners need to be on board and that the opinions of other character owners are taken into consideration too given that the characters interact with one another. This also explains in part to why Snake wasn't in Smash 4.

Yugii Hori is just one piece of the puzzle (Armor Project) in this hypothetical for a playable DQ character. You'd still need Nintendo, Square Enix (asset holder for DQ), Bird Studio (owns all DQ characters), and Koichi Sugiyama (owns all DQ music) all on board, with Heart Beat* as an additional party needed for Erdrick, working in cooperation.

*Heart Beat is a dissolved company but legally still owns a portion of Erdrick because his latest design is from the Super Nintendo remake of Dragon Quest III that they developed. Heart Beat was dissolved willingly and the legal explanation of how it can still have legal rights to IPs is explained here:

https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/5913/what-happens-to-ip-owned-by-a-defunct-company

(I know some of this has been said, but I wanted to offer my two cents again. I know it's a bit long) To add in to the whole Dragon Quest thing like before, I'll put it like this. (This isn't about Spirits so please) Geno does make the most sense if we ignore missing Spirits, I'm not saying that, but for the reasons I said Crono makes more sense if he's not in. Say Spirits deconfirm HYPOTHETICALLY. Sylux is missing, so DLC for Prime 4 yeah? Metroid is not popular in Japan, but he cost ZERO dollars to acquire and promotes one of THEIR games.

In comparison, Dragon Quest cost a boat load of money, 5 different sources you have to go through, and, if Nintendo sees the sales, is an utter failure in the West. It's iconic, and deserves to be in, but Nintendo is a business. If they are going to pay that much, they aren't going to waste it on something they don't even know will sell. And to do what? Promote something they don't own? Unless Square said they couldn't have Cloud otherwise, I'm not sure. At least Crono, Geno and, even to stretch, Sephiroth (Though with Sephiroth I doubt they'd opt to do another FF7 rep after everything with Cloud) all have things to where I could understand why Nintendo would opt to add them in.

(Btw people have been saying that Square ignores Crono, but you know what that sounds like to me? Capcom and how they treated Megaman before Smash. Or even Simon to an extent, for different reasons. I'm not saying Crono is the same tier as those two, like at all, but he comes closer than most. Remember, Sakurai is still picking the characters, it could've just been a pick a Square Rep for DLC type of thing when getting Cloud back. However, then I can't understand why he wouldn't just pick Geno, unless Square said no.)

I know that Crono and Dragon Quest both have hoops to get through, but at least with him there's not as many hoops or sources to go through such as the composer (most of the tracks weren't by him right?) and stuff. BUT, that doesn't mean I think either Crono or Erdrick are happening. This is just me ignoring leaks and rumors. At the end of the day, to me, Geno makes the most sense, especially with no music, costume, or if they want people to jump into the pass with a fan favorite. I'm just saying if Geno for one reason or another didn't make it, like something with Square saying no, which is why we got a Spirit instead (IF)

 

[Lime3037]

I think Geno getting his own game that still involved Mario elements (like some characters and enemies) would be cool. He definitely needs more exposure.


There are so many things you could learn about Geno in the process!
1. Where does he live on the Star Road?
2. Does he have any connection to Rosalina?
3. Can he possess other objects, or was the Geno doll a special occurrence?
4. Is there a Mrs. ♪!? ?

 

[Geno Boost]

I think Geno getting his own game that still involved Mario elements (like some characters and enemies) would be cool. He definitely needs more exposure.


There are so many things you could learn about Geno in the process!
1. Where does he live on the Star Road?
2. Does he have any connection to Rosalina?
3. Can he possess other objects, or was the Geno doll a special occurrence?
4. Is there a Mrs. ♪!? ?

I think the most important thing is to meet the higher authority of Geno and I am sure it's not Rosalina but it could be an unused character on SMRPG early concept arts that we have not seen yet

 

[JarBear]

I am curious, is it "absolute fact" that Square is getting just one rep? I've been wondering how many Cloud fighter purchases were, along with Cloud amiibo sales were made with Smash 4. If it was very "successful" and popular for Square.

So, back in 2015 or so when Sakurai again approached Square to add Cloud as a BASE fighter for Ultimate, could it have gone, in simpler terms: "Sure, you can make him part of the base, but we want another 2 fighters as DLC.

We know Sakurai's goal was to have "everyone in" for the base roster, so he had to cooperate with them since they held the cards so to speak. He wanted something again. For marketing reasons, Square could be promoting a DQ fighter, despite the nightmare of jumping through hoops. The reason? DQ is not as popular in the West, but maybe having a rep on Smash would add attention or maybe a desire for the Smash player to play a DQ game. Square later announces the new DQ on the switch. However, they would not make much money from this DLC figher compared to Cloud, since this is more of an advertisement/investment as oppose to making money from the sales.

Here is the way they make more money since there are less financial hoops to jump through: Have Geno as the second DLC fighter. Reasons:

1.) He has been publicly called for both by the fans (a vocal popular third party character) and even Sakurai himself has said he would like to use him.
2.) it would be simpler to implement since there are less financial & copyright hoops. That in turn means more money for Square.

Just a thought I had. I know there has been leaks about the first DLC fighter be a Square Rep, but does that mean they just get the first one?

Edit: I am using DQ rep as an example since it is not popular in the West, but it is in Japan. To gain more popularity in the West, using Smash may help increase the demand and desire here in the US, even Eurpoe, especially if they put the new game on the Switch. The Switch is like the Wii in that it is very popular and is selling very well.

The same arguement, in a way, can include Crono IF Square is wanting to put in on the switch to revive the franchise, be it a Port, Reboot, Remaster or sequel. Again, since relations between them and Nintendo are warming AND the switch is popular, a new Crono game could be a good choice on the switch as well.

 

[StarLight42]

I'm worried that with Nintendo's apparent tone-deafness about Isaac's popularity, Geno will fall to the same fate...

Then again, I just don't know how any of these other Square reps will get in.

Sephiroth - The DLC packs REQUIRE new music and a new stage, and we all know how stingy SE is being with the Final Fantasy representation.

Erdrick / DQ rep - Heard some really bad things about the composer. Apparently he only lets the DQ devs use his music and is basically holding Square Enix by the balls because he is so talented.

Crono - Again, music/licensing

 

[Fatmanonice]

I know people are tired of me talking about Dragon Quest and looking at this post and thinking "oh god, here comes another thesis" but I wanted to run through various key points in my research:

-Erdrick is only playable in one game (along with its remakes), Dragon Quest III. The last remake was in 2001.

-No Dragon Quest characters have ever been in games that Square Enix/Armor Project didn't direct, produce, and have creative control of. All crossovers have been internal.

-Goku is the head character of Bird Studio and Goku has never appeared in anything that Akira Toriyama didn't have significant creative control of. Bird Studio characters really aren't "lent out."

-When Goku appears in anything, he is primarily the focus. In Shonen Jump crossover games, he's the most prominent character from trailers to advertising. He also brings his costars in tow, outnumbering any other IPs that might be present. Dragon Ball/Bird Studio does not play second banana if it gets invited to the party.

 

[NerfOrNothiing]

I'm new and I only just made an account on here, but this thread is really great! I've only been recently introduced to Geno but I already want him in more than anything! It's so cool to see so many people supporting the blue wood boi. I've been lurking here as a guest for a few days now but I finally made an account, whoops ;;

 

[alemerltoucanet]

I'm new and I only just made an account on here, but this thread is really great! I've only been recently introduced to Geno but I already want him in more than anything! It's so cool to see so many people supporting the blue wood boi. I've been lurking here as a guest for a few days now but I finally made an account, whoops ;;

Welcome to the Geno support thread!! We love getting new members and supporters in here!

 

[Deleted member]

I'm new and I only just made an account on here, but this thread is really great! I've only been recently introduced to Geno but I already want him in more than anything! It's so cool to see so many people supporting the blue wood boi. I've been lurking here as a guest for a few days now but I finally made an account, whoops ;;

Welcome to the Geno thread