Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Source on that? (I mostly just wanna see the art, I believe you.)

coolcat12347 has the picture as his/her profile pic lol

 

[KidCham]

for the vifam gun though i strongly think it was for the new gun item that shoots lasers
He wouldn't have worked that early for Geno
If some DLC were worked that much ahead of time, they would be able to show something for the fighter pass

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Hey @Nekoo Great seeing you add more debate into this Thread.

At this point i'm pretty sure if the first DLC is a Square Enix Character, it has to hit hard and kick start the sales of the pass.

Sephiroth has Mainstream appeal
Crono has Retro appeal
Geno has Smash appeal
DQ has historical appeal

Anything goes and honestly i'd be happy with the first three the most. DQ is a bit iffy due to all the licenses and such for me.

Geno is Smash AND retro appeal. Sakurai even considers Geno a retro rep, he even hears many people talking about Geno being a retro rep from the Super Nintendo.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Give me Geno or give me death!

 

[Deleted member]

for the vifam gun though i strongly think it was for the new gun item that shoots lasers
He wouldn't have worked that early for Geno
If some DLC were worked that much ahead of time, they would be able to show something for the fighter pass

I think the Vifam gun is for Geno though, because there is nothing in Smash Ultimate that has used it yet, and it would make sense if Geno is the first DLC, because he may have been planned for the base roster, but Square Enix wanted him to be DLC, thus making Geno the first DLC

 

[coolcat12347]

Hello, yes, I have the Nintendo artist made Geno as my icon.

 

[childishgamgeno]

I'm aware of this. I prefer to be as thought out as possible when I'm making my statements and I also like to address almost every, if not every, part of someone's response to me/comments. People seem to respond somewhat positively to it in different areas, so I'm likely to continue doing so. I do repeat some of what I've said, but attempt to phrase it in a different context or light to provide different perspectives on why I'm saying what I am and how I'm approaching the issue.

I'm not entirely playing Devil's Advocate either. I just disagree with some of the reasoning being made against other characters and in support of Geno. Some arguments are definitely valid, and others just don't hold up as well for me. And we're having discussions on Geno's chances versus others sometimes, so...



The only sales figure I've got for the SNES Classic is this one from April: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...edition_has_sold_5_28_million_units_worldwide

Then the NES Classic I can only find an official number from April 2017 for 2.3 Million: http://time.com/4759594/nes-classic-millions-sales/
and later on it outsold all the other systems on the market in June 2018 from an article earlier this year: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/2/17642236/nes-classic-npd-sales-data-june-2018

So I'd say we probably have around a pretty close split. I'm sure both systems have sold well since those numbers have released and saw a boost during the holiday season as all major consoles usually do. Of course they have been quite large sources of revenue for Nintendo, and created a brand new market for more premium plug and play consoles. I will never deny that, though I do question if Nintendo finally chose to release them as a way to deal with the drought of the end of the Wii U era (though this applies less to the SNES Classic, but I suspect plans for it were made long before the Switch was officially a major success).

No Chrono Trigger on SNES Classic baffles me to this day. That was the single biggest game missing from the console (Though Final Fantasy II (IV) and the other DKC games also should have been there and maybe the missed opportunity to translate the FE SNES games). Dragon Quest is also confusing, but if the rights really are that complicated, I guess there is a point to be made. But how big of a priority would be getting these games on the Classic line of Systems? Again, I don't think you can apply the framework of "well, they didn't do it in one situation" to a completely different situation that could have entirely different implications.

The reason I oppose including the SNES Classic data in for Super Mario RPG for any numerical count is the fact that you're selling an entire system with a variety of games to people. Maybe a really big Star Fox fan bought the system for Star Fox 2's official release and nothing else? Or how many people maybe bought the system because they like platformers of the era but also don't like the RPGs and never touched them? Or how many people bought a system out of nostalgia and barely played the system enough to justify the purchase? All of these scenarios could potentially occur, and all of them involve no exposure to even Super Mario RPG as a game. And do we count a person who bought the SNES Classic but also originally bought Super Mario RPG?

You see where I'm going with this? There's a lot of variables with regards to the sales of the system that could seemingly have nothing to do with Super Mario RPG besides the fact they were on the device that was sold. The SNES Classic is certainly a chance for more exposure, I won't deny that, but I will reject the notion that the sales of the system are a 1:1 correlation of complete exposure of Super Mario RPG. I'd be more willing to believe Nintendo took the Classic line seriously if they didn't make mention of the Classic lineup as Reggie does in this interview: https://kotaku.com/nintendo-s-reggie-fils-aime-on-hopes-for-an-n64-classic-1830465672

Edit: Did forget to mention I will try to be more concise, but surprise, surprise, I suck at it lol

True on all counts. DQ could have totally different implications when it comes to smash as opposed to a port. Instead of porting a whole game you would just be adding a character with assets. However I feel like it would be easier to just move a game over to a classic system that was already released on one of your old platforms than get new assets for a fighter.

The classic was used to bridge Wii U and Switch which is interesting because it feels to me like that means it’s trying to introduce older titles to my only us, the nostalgia generation, but a new generation. Like “these are the games that made us what we are”. I see what you mean by variables tho. But do you think it’s more likely SMRPG for more fans that way than by when it first came out? (Where Nintendo hoped you had to buy the game IF you did ) now it’s just included in one big package.

Speaking of that interview, Reggie said Sakurai was “well into development”. If the team hadn’t started developing until after the list was complete they’d only be developing for 9 days...is that considered “well into development”? Hmm...

Okay, so we've talked about Dragon Quest's liscensing and the advertising angle to death: what do the actual characters bring to Smash? All the third party characters in Smash have added something new:

-Snake: Explosive specialist including remote controlled C4.

-Sonic: stupid fast. The fastest character.

-Megaman: Projectile specialist. Most of his attacks are projectiles or disjointed.

-Pac-Man: pretty much a love letter to arcade gaming with references to 20 Namco arcade games.

-Ryu: fights like a traditional fighting game character.

-Cloud: limit system, like in Final Fantasy.

-Bayonetta: witch time and bat within.

What do the Dragon Quest characters bring to the table?

Swords.






Lmao but maybe I’m thinking there could be an armor system? Or Erdrick can go into Tension mode? Idk




While we’re talking about it, I’d LOVE a SMRPG remaster/remake + SEQUEL ( Similar to how they did Super Star Saga and that Extra Bowser story thing )

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, so we've talked about Dragon Quest's liscensing and the advertising angle to death: what do the actual characters bring to Smash? All the third party characters in Smash have added something new:

-Snake: Explosive specialist including remote controlled C4.

-Sonic: stupid fast. The fastest character.

-Megaman: Projectile specialist. Most of his attacks are projectiles or disjointed.

-Pac-Man: pretty much a love letter to arcade gaming with references to 20 Namco arcade games.

-Ryu: fights like a traditional fighting game character.

-Cloud: limit system, like in Final Fantasy.

-Bayonetta: witch time and bat within.

What do the Dragon Quest characters bring to the table?

Nothing

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Okay, so we've talked about Dragon Quest's liscensing and the advertising angle to death: what do the actual characters bring to Smash? All the third party characters in Smash have added something new:

-Snake: Explosive specialist including remote controlled C4.

-Sonic: stupid fast. The fastest character.

-Megaman: Projectile specialist. Most of his attacks are projectiles or disjointed.

-Pac-Man: pretty much a love letter to arcade gaming with references to 20 Namco arcade games.

-Ryu: fights like a traditional fighting game character.

-Cloud: limit system, like in Final Fantasy.

-Bayonetta: witch time and bat within.

And then there's Geno.
-Geno: puppet with guns and timed hits

 

[EarlTamm]

So, with the knowledge that the Octopath team is working with Nintendo to remake past games, I think this is something that should be discussed, as this could have been a factor in the DLC deciding process. Besides the obvious candidate for a Nintendo X Square crossover remake, what are other potential candidates?

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

And then there's Geno.
-Geno: puppet with guns and timed hits

And don't forget he can do a Kamehameha.

 

[Deleted member]

SO, with the knowledge that the Octopath team is working with Nintendo to remake past games, I think this is something that should be discussed, as this could have been a factor in the DLC deciding process. Besides the obvious candidate for a Nintendo X Square crossover remake, what are other potential candidates?

No one

 

[Datboigeno]

As someone just poking his head in, why are you guys so confident Geno is a lock? Don't get me wrong, I really want him as DLC, but what points have made this so strongly in his favor?

My brother works for Steam and says he’s in.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

GENO

OR


BUST

 

[TheCJBrine]

No separate fighter pass?

Well that sucks, I'm getting the physical release.

Surely they'll release it separately sometime later...? please

 

[EarlTamm]

No one

I mean, I would not go that far. It's clear that they have multiple games in mind, so it would be good to brainstorm.
The quote in the article from Matsuda:
“One of our other big initiatives is to get as many of our past titles available via digital releases. Among the younger generations of gamers, you’ve got lots of people out there who may have heard of our past titles but have never had an opportunity to play them.”

“So we think that program of porting and transferring the older titles over to newer platforms, such as the Switch, is very important. So that people get that awareness of our back catalogue. Just straight ports isn’t cutting it, we need to update those and modernize them to make something that works for modern gamers too.”

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Wait Iv'e just realized something.

You can't buy the fighter pass individually. It's only available in the SSBU+Fighters pass article on the eshop.

You can only buy each DLC separatly. Wich make it a total of 30 dollars , not 25 dollars.

This may kill the "X character can encourage to buy the pass" argument...

Ah, so no wonder Sakurai said only to buy it if we're confident in its value, it's a case of "hope you like some of the characters in here, otherwise you can't get them". They probably want to do bunched-up passes that have everything conveniently packaged up compared to the scattered DLC of 4.

In any case, I'm going physical anyway, so no skin off my nose.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, I would not go that far. It's clear that they have multiple games in mind, so it would be good to brainstorm.
The quote in the article from Matsuda:
“One of our other big initiatives is to get as many of our past titles available via digital releases. Among the younger generations of gamers, you’ve got lots of people out there who may have heard of our past titles but have never had an opportunity to play them.”

“So we think that program of porting and transferring the older titles over to newer platforms, such as the Switch, is very important. So that people get that awareness of our back catalogue. Just straight ports isn’t cutting it, we need to update those and modernize them to make something that works for modern gamers too.”

I know I was just playing lol

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Wait Iv'e just realized something.

You can't buy the fighter pass individually. It's only available in the SSBU+Fighters pass article on the eshop.

You can only buy each DLC separatly. Wich make it a total of 30 dollars , not 25 dollars.

This may kill the "X character can encourage to buy the pass" argument...

There's a very good chance the fighter pass is available separately AFTER the game comes out.

 

[paper roxy]

No separate fighter pass?

Well that sucks, I'm getting the physical release.

Surely they'll release it separately sometime later...? please

the game isnt out yet so its pretty obvious that the fighters pass will likely be released when they game is

 

[Deleted member]

*ignore this*

No

 

[Fatmanonice]

As someone just poking his head in, why are you guys so confident Geno is a lock? Don't get me wrong, I really want him as DLC, but what points have made this so strongly in his favor?

He's not a lock but things are looking good:

-Sakurai speaking highly of him in the past.

-Regularly heard among insiders.

-Him and Mallow being the only Square Enix characters aside from Cloud in the base game despite over a thousand characters being present. In other words, they already have permission to use SMRPG characters.

-His competition being liscensing nightmares, especially Dragon Quest. Dragon Quest characters would need to be negotiated between a minimum of 4 different entities with one of those being separate for music. Final Fantasy music is locked behind Nobou Umetsu, who no longer works for Square Enix and has been on a sabbatical since September. To add to this, SMRPG's composer, Yoko Shimomura, is already on the Smash Ultimate team.

-Most of his competition faceplants into the anime swordsmen trope. Three of them are silent protagonists with blank slate personalities. One is a literal blob. The most unique one with the most personality, Sora, was flat out said to not be in.

-Pretty much the only character on the leaked 7 list aside from Sora that has any fan demand or Smash prescence.

I think these are the main talking points at the moment.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oy, now it seems there's Ultimate amiibo leaks, of all things.

True on all counts. DQ could have totally different implications when it comes to smash as opposed to a port. Instead of porting a whole game you would just be adding a character with assets. However I feel like it would be easier to just move a game over to a classic system that was already released on one of your old platforms than get new assets for a fighter.

The classic was used to bridge Wii U and Switch which is interesting because it feels to me like that means it’s trying to introduce older titles to my only us, the nostalgia generation, but a new generation. Like “these are the games that made us what we are”. I see what you mean by variables tho. But do you think it’s more likely SMRPG for more fans that way than by when it first came out? (Where Nintendo hoped you had to buy the game IF you did ) now it’s just included in one big package.

Speaking of that interview, Reggie said Sakurai was “well into development”. If the team hadn’t started developing until after the list was complete they’d only be developing for 9 days...is that considered “well into development”? Hmm...

Adding to that, the NES library is steadily having its library grow, even including the former Japan-Only first Twinbee game. This could be a chance to right the wrongs by finally including the translated first four DQ/DW games in a virtual service on the Western side.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Let me just point this out:

If Square is down for past titles, and they did remake SMRPG, on the Switch, with the Switch's install base (only destined to get bigger after Smash), and if you consider just how well modern Mario sells to the casual base...think about what kind of sales that could make. We're not talking about a port of a 20 year old game--this would, for all intents and purposes, be marketed as a new game. A new Mario game. It would get marketed to an all-new generation of gamers that actually grew up with JRPGs, suiting their tastes rather than introducing them to it. And all with the backing power of Nintendo's mascot.

And then you use Geno in Smash to promote it...

You see where I'm going with this. Dragon Quest and FF might sell gangbusters, but they've got nothing on how much Mario can move in comparison. We're just lucky that Geno is tied to such a huge property--honestly, I think we forget that sometimes.

 

[owjies]

I mean, I would not go that far. It's clear that they have multiple games in mind, so it would be good to brainstorm.
The quote in the article from Matsuda:
“One of our other big initiatives is to get as many of our past titles available via digital releases. Among the younger generations of gamers, you’ve got lots of people out there who may have heard of our past titles but have never had an opportunity to play them.”

“So we think that program of porting and transferring the older titles over to newer platforms, such as the Switch, is very important. So that people get that awareness of our back catalogue. Just straight ports isn’t cutting it, we need to update those and modernize them to make something that works for modern gamers too.”

I think I've posted this before, but it's worth mentioning again. In 2017 around the same period of time as the quotes posted above, we also have the Chrono Trigger director tweeting, "Secret Mission Start," along with a picture of a Switch. Overall that's a good sign for both Chrono and SMRPG, and it shows Square's serious about their Switch strategy. I keep thinking there's something more to the equation between Square and Nintendo besides Dragon Quest XI S. Remember the announcement for that FFVII remaster came out of nowhere.

 

[EarlTamm]

You see where I'm going with this. Dragon Quest and FF might sell gangbusters, but they've got nothing on how much Mario can move in comparison. We're just lucky that Geno is tied to such a huge property--honestly, I think we forget that sometimes.

Yeah, it is something that should be appreciated more. For how cool and unique Geno is, he would have never gotten this far if it were not for Mario backing him up. It was Mario's good name that made him known.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Let me just point this out:

If Square is down for past titles, and they did remake SMRPG, on the Switch, with the Switch's install base (only destined to get bigger after Smash), and if you consider just how well modern Mario sells to the casual base...think about what kind of sales that could make. We're not talking about a port of a 20 year old game--this would, for all intents and purposes, be marketed as a new game. A new Mario game. It would get marketed to an all-new generation of gamers that actually grew up with JRPGs, suiting their tastes rather than introducing them to it. And all with the backing power of Nintendo's mascot.

And then you use Geno in Smash to promote it...

You see where I'm going with this. Dragon Quest and FF might sell gangbusters, but they've got nothing on how much Mario can move in comparison. We're just lucky that Geno is tied to such a huge property--honestly, I think we forget that sometimes.

I think I've posted this before, but it's worth mentioning again. In 2017 around the same period of time as the quotes posted above, we also have the Chrono Trigger director tweeting, "Secret Mission Start," along with a picture of a Switch. Overall that's a good sign for both Chrono and SMRPG, and it shows Square's serious about their Switch strategy. I keep thinking there's something more to the equation between Square and Nintendo besides Dragon Quest XI S. Remember the announcement for that FFVII remaster came out of nowhere.

Not to mention, there are Grandia HD remakes coming from GungHo, so there's definitely a chance to capitalise on JRPG remakes, so this type of strategy makes sense.

Yeah, it is something that should be appreciated more. For how cool and unique Geno is, he would have never gotten this far if it were not for Mario backing him up. It was Mario's good name that made him known.

Being an overlooked character in a big series has its perks, sometimes.

 

[xpnc]

So when do you guys think we'll see the first DLC character revealed? I personally don't think the VGAs are likely and that we'll see them in the next Nintendo Direct, whenever it may be.

 

[Dan]

Why are people still using the Sakurai praising as an argument when Nintendo decided the characters?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So when do you guys think we'll see the first DLC character revealed? I personally don't think the VGAs are likely and that we'll see them in the next Nintendo Direct, whenever it may be.

The day PP is out, if the TGA has nothing.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

So when do you guys think we'll see the first DLC character revealed? I personally don't think the VGAs are likely and that we'll see them in the next Nintendo Direct, whenever it may be.

I'm with you: next direct, most likely. And I'm thinking that will be in late January. You're almost guaranteed to get one then.

 

[owjies]

Let me just point this out:

If Square is down for past titles, and they did remake SMRPG, on the Switch, with the Switch's install base (only destined to get bigger after Smash), and if you consider just how well modern Mario sells to the casual base...think about what kind of sales that could make. We're not talking about a port of a 20 year old game--this would, for all intents and purposes, be marketed as a new game. A new Mario game. It would get marketed to an all-new generation of gamers that actually grew up with JRPGs, suiting their tastes rather than introducing them to it. And all with the backing power of Nintendo's mascot.

And then you use Geno in Smash to promote it...

You see where I'm going with this. Dragon Quest and FF might sell gangbusters, but they've got nothing on how much Mario can move in comparison. We're just lucky that Geno is tied to such a huge property--honestly, I think we forget that sometimes.

Exactly. Unless we're getting a remaster of DQ 1–3 or something, basing the DLC newcomer off of DQ XI S doesn't fit for me because Square's Switch-specific strategy is original IPs and reboots. To me, using DQ XI characters would be counter-intuitive. With Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi on the decline, now's the time to reboot Mario RPG and get Square involved again.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm with you: next direct, most likely. And I'm thinking that will be in late January. You're almost guaranteed to get one then.

Man I hope so, turns out the end of November rumor was just a load of baloney again. There's no news for anything coming until the TGAs come up, luckily that's next week.

 

[Dan]

Just to show you guys how much Nintendo hates old stuff, Jakks Pacific were going to make a 4" Bowser Jr. figure with his bib from Mario Sunshine (navy blue); Nintendo made them reverse it into his standard white bib after the blue prototype was already completed... how anal can they get?

 

[EarlTamm]

Why are people still using the Sakurai praising as an argument when Nintendo decided the characters?

Nintendo might take that in consideration. It's good to know what your employees would have the most drive doing.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Why are people still using the Sakurai praising as an argument when Nintendo decided the characters?

Why are people arguing Square's stake in Geno as a character when they aren't making the call either? They have to be approached in the first place before they can even say yea or nay.

Nintendo's motives are the ones to look at right now.

Edit: and if I wasn't clear enough above, I believe they have many good reasons to consider Geno.

 

[MyDude213]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhhfwHNRQU8

just gonna leave this here.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Here's my point about the third party characters: they all reflect the nature of their games, basically being a walking summary of their franchise. Snake is tactical explosives and stealth. Sonic is extreme speed that can be tough to control. Megaman is mostly his Robot Master weapons, a tool for any situation. Pac-Man is 20 classic arcade games in one. Ryu and Ken are traditional fighting games with traditional inputs. Cloud is turn based moves and having to wait to use stronger moves. Bayo is fancy combo chains and skin of teeth dodges. Simon and Richter are using a full tool kit to keep monsters away, with weapons specialized for specific distances. They all feature unique mechanics from their respective games. Again, they are summaries of their franchises to the point that you'd get the core ideas of their franchise. I want to know how Dragon Quest would do this and be unique to the roster despite even DQ fans admitting that it's "high fantasy RPGs without the bells and whistles. No envelope pushing, just your standard JRPG system."

 

[Dan]

Anyone remember Brawl era when some YouTuber name "Xyedit" or something uploaded a video of him selecting Geno in the random box and it showed his entrance animation and then froze at the "Go!" screen? Has the video been removed? It was noteworthy because it was kind of before hacks were huge.

 

[HolyKnight]

Im not sure what I am more hype for, the possibility of finally getting one of the characters I've wanted for YEARS in smash, or the possibility of a total remaster of my favorite rpg of all time.