Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[The DoE]

Did they really have to bring the costume back even for preservation, though? Like some have pointed out, the costume has actually gotten some minor touch-ups here and there on top of being adjusted proportion-wise, so it's not an exact port of the Sm4sh one. And there are a ton of other Sm4sh costumes that we haven't seen return yet - the generic non-character ones. I'm all for a Geno bonus DLC, but I'm just not sure I see anything pointing to that in Sakurai's silence.

I mean, don't get me wrong. Geno's Costume was slightly upgraded (though I'm not sure about that hat and cape clipping back in Sm4sh), if I'm not wrong, almost every returning old Mii was upgraded somehow. You could consider that as keeping their professionalism, but the preservation hypothesis stands still. That costume would've returned if Geno was in FP2 or not. Maybe I'm overthinking Sakurai's silence too much, but it doesn't stop being kinda unsettling to not talk (or even mention) Geno's costume at all.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I wonder if the thing we should push geno 4 is mario kart tour? Sure it's monetized to **** but that may also work in our advantage

I’d like a Geno pipe, I still play the game.

I don’t spend money on it, and get disappointed when I don’t get the character in the spotlight, but I still like and play it.

Maybe he could come alongside Mallow

 

[Griselda]

I mean, don't get me wrong. Geno's Costume was slightly upgraded (though I'm not sure about that hat and cape clipping back in Sm4sh), if I'm not wrong, almost every returning old Mii was upgraded somehow. You could consider that as keeping their professionalism, but the preservation hypothesis stands still. That costume would've returned if Geno was in FP2 or not. Maybe I'm overthinking Sakurai's silence too much, but it doesn't stop being kinda unsettling to not talk (or even mention) Geno's costume at all.

I get where you're coming from, and unsettling is a pretty good word for that silence. Sakurai doesn't at all seem like the kind of person who - even if he changed his mind about the character since he made those statements ages ago about wanting him - would screw Geno's fans over so hard he wouldn't even say the doll's name. So we want to find another answer, and I suppose yours is as good as any. ..Considering my only other thought is 'Square/Nintendo told him not to even mention Geno', which is ridiculously villainous. Enough that I pray that isn't the truth.

But... if Geno's costume just -had- to come back, why couldn't it come back with Geno himself? Or is your stance that as a potential outside-pass DLC fighter, Geno wouldn't be allowed to come with any costumes, even his own?

 

[LunarDistortion]

I wonder if the thing we should push geno 4 is mario kart tour? Sure it's monetized to **** but that may also work in our advantage

There might honestly be a chance for something like that. They have been adding stuff to that like crazy, if stuff like Fawful or Paper Mario get in than we could really get somewhere with that.

 

[Necksuss]

hey guys long time lurker, been lurking since the grinch fiasco and just wanted to say this has been a wild and fun ride. Stay bright and strong! I love this community!

 

[AceAttorney9000]

But... if Geno's costume just -had- to come back, why couldn't it come back with Geno himself? Or is your stance that as a potential outside-pass DLC fighter, Geno wouldn't be allowed to come with any costumes, even his own?

I've no idea how "bonus" DLC characters would work, other than that they're separate and would generally come with less content, but I guess Geno being one such fighter could mean he's not bringing any costumes with him, thus the Geno costume has to come with Sephiroth instead?

 

[The DoE]

I get where you're coming from, and unsettling is a pretty good word for that silence. Sakurai doesn't at all seem like the kind of person who - even if he changed his mind about the character since he made those statements ages ago about wanting him - would screw Geno's fans over so hard he wouldn't even say the doll's name. So we want to find another answer, and I suppose yours is as good as any. ..Considering my only other thought is 'Square/Nintendo told him not to even mention Geno', which is ridiculously villainous. Enough that I pray that isn't the truth.

But... if Geno's costume just -had- to come back, why couldn't it come back with Geno himself? Or is your stance that as a potential outside-pass DLC fighter, Geno wouldn't be allowed to come with any costumes, even his own?

It's an outside-pass stance, my point being that Geno's Mii Costume doesn't need to be alongside him, it doesn't stop him from negotiations post-pass Volume 2 or even negotiations made during the same time as Vol. 2 but outside the pass (bonus). Geno's costume is not necessarily his last representation because that costume would've been added for preserving Wii U's costumes, rather than a ''consolation prize'', something you wouldn't expect more representation from. Sakurai's silence is nothing but a support that the costume was added because of this reasons.

Therefore, Geno would be totally possible as a hypothetical bonus character throughout 2021 (Though we're not sure about that one, we haven't got an individual character since Pirahna Plant).

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I’m a bit curious about some stuff that was going around:

1) Cacodemon is dead sadly, now I want to know who made it and make it so professional.

2) whats the deal with the famous “Mii Costume Guy”?? He correctly leaked banjo mii costume wave and said that the Chocobo hat (that was revealed today) with a Mallow hat were coming later. What happened to the Mallow hat? He also mentioned later a lots of potential mii costumes (including “Sony Mii Costume” that, at least I, didn’t end knowing who was referring) that of course was all wrong. Example: he mentioned a 2B costume that its very likely that will not happen.

3) What was the decisive piece of evidence Papagenos was informed that potentially pointed out to either Geno or Waluigi (Waluigi can still happen though...) being playable? IIRC was something in relationship to the takedown of that fan-made smash game (don’t remember the name lol).

One advice for you genobros, make a completely reboot regarding speculation/leaks/rumours/insiders/Sakurai’s quotes, basically everything and start over for next game speculation. Nothing is impossible with smash, and you are not alone, there are only 3 fighters left, so a lot of fanbases will not get their most wanted character.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think the updates to the Mii costume actually bodes quite well for Geno’s chances next game. I think it’s fairly obvious that the majority of the fan requested characters got in base game Ultimate either the exception of Banjo. K. Rool, Ridley, Isabelle, and Inkling were all heavy ballot requests and they all, aside from Ridley, got Mii Costumes with new designs towards the end of Smash 4.

The Geno Mii is an updated design. Catch my drift?

 

[Griselda]

It's an outside-pass stance, my point being that Geno's Mii Costume doesn't need to be alongside him, it doesn't stop him from negotiations post-pass Volume 2 or even negotiations made during the same time as Vol. 2 but outside the pass (bonus). Geno's costume is not necessarily his last representation because that costume would've been added for preserving Wii U's costumes, rather than a ''consolation prize'', something you wouldn't expect more representation from. Sakurai's silence is nothing but a support that the costume was added because of this reasons.

Therefore, Geno would be totally possible as a hypothetical bonus character throughout 2021 (Though we're not sure about that one, we haven't got an individual character since Pirahna Plant).

Alright. I'm hoping we get an explanation for the silence either way, soon.

Either way, I'm logging out now. I might be back to check in at some point in the coming days, but it's not a guarantee. I've got some other things that I need to tend to.

 

[Rocketjay8]

I still stand by what I said in my previous comment on this thread. I will never give up until the last character sings.

 

[GenoDoge]

I may look over optimistic.
I may look foolish.

But...I'm not giving up until the DLC is over.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Hey guys. I'm a die hard member of the isaac gang. But im here to offer my condolences. I supported Geno myself vicariously because you guys always felt like a...sort of, brother in arms, so to say. That person you sort of look up towards while pursuing your own dream. I always admired your determination, and your will to resist hate and vitriol over video games of all things.

I cant wave a wand and say that this will get better quickly or easily. Even if the stars align for a pass 3 or just out of pass extra fighters, it looks rough I have to admit. But what I can say is that the moment you give into despair, is the moment that what you all care for truly dies. Alls I can say to comfort you all is that if you truly want to see a bright future out of the character of geno, then you have to advocate for a future for mario rpgs. Which is looking bleak atm between the alpha cream closure and intelligent systems insistence on paper marios existence as an adventure game.

This is what many in my golden sun family of friends have been doing, we`re in an incredibly awkward spot ourselves with a stupid trophy in our way. So rather then fighting a fight that may not make sense to fight, we've instead taken to trying to breath some life onto the larger community which had previously existed, to get our series proper back in full. If we escape trophy hell, or in your guys` case, mii hell, that's a bonus in all honesty. Ultimately, what we care about most is the larger series these characters represent. We want these characters in smash because we love these characters within their proper context.

I know that many of you had hoped that if geno were to get into smash, it would open up the door for something like a mario rpg 2, or a remake. I say why rely on smash for that dream? Pursue those hopes with reckless abandon. Smash was never the make or break for those sorts of hopes. Never give up, never stop fighting. Its your dreams, my friends. Dreams are worth fighting for. To close this, ill quote a something dear to my heart. "You`re going to be alright. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again...soon."

 

[GenoToto]

At this point, I'm content with what we have. We gave it our all, but this is how it must be, it seems.

That said, the only way I can see this working out would be if -- something I posited a long time ago -- the costume is back merely so that they could pull a K. Rool/Banjo fake-out reveal later down the line.

But, I'm not banking on that at all. The simplest solution is probably the correct one, here; We got recognition with the costume, and that's what Nintendo prefers at the end of the day.

 

[Grumbo]

I’m starting to wonder if Sephiroth maybe wasn’t gonna be pass 2 or even dlc at one point. FF7 was so content-lacking and as a character I feel he fits in better with the base picks like K.Rool and Ridley. Wasn’t Steve gonna be base-game at one point?

View attachment 296166
>TMW a fighting game that was specifically criticized for shilling and bad roster choices manages to do something that the ultimate fighting game crossover somehow couldn't do

X would be sick in Smash ngl, at least as an echo.

 

[Bee Card]

RIP

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Do you guys think there's a chance the Mario & Luigi series will be revived for the Switch or a future console?

 

[zipzapsparkle]

I wonder if the thing we should push geno 4 is mario kart tour? Sure it's monetized to **** but that may also work in our advantage

I think you should, it could help get him more noticed. They’ve been adding all sorts of unexpected characters too like King Bob-Omb.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do you guys think there's a chance the Mario & Luigi series will be revived for the Switch or a future console?

With the people behind it bankrupt/defunct? Eh, I don't think it has even a small chance. It'd be nice, since it's the less puzzle-based Mario RPG series anyway. Paper Mario focuses more on puzzle while keeping the rpg gameplay simple in comparison. Though to be fair, it isn't off from what it generally was even then. M&L always had more complicated gameplay than Paper Mario in the first place. That's a big thing of what set them apart.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If nothing else, the Famitsu column this week will be an interesting read

 

[Kremling Kommander]

Love all you guys, never stop fighting for Geno to come back

 

[Wiley]

I dunno. No deluxe. No music. This is a better outcome than deluxe. It’s still feels like I got punched in the gut but I can actually see a character drop still because it’s not deluxe. I’m not waiting for him anymore though. If he comes then the day is saved.

Smrpg hasn’t showed up on snes switch yet right?

 

[AceAttorney9000]

3) What was the decisive piece of evidence Papagenos was informed that potentially pointed out to either Geno or Waluigi (Waluigi can still happen though...) being playable? IIRC was something in relationship to the takedown of that fan-made smash game (don’t remember the name lol).

I think it was Legacy XP, a Project M expansion that had extra characters, Geno and Waluigi among them.

In light everything that happened today, now I'm really curious what papagenos was told about that mod's copyright takedown that made him think Geno and/or Waluigi would end up being playable.

Smrpg hasn’t showed up on snes switch yet right?

Nope, not yet.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

It was a good run guys.

 

[Minix0]

Hey all I know this sucks, but I was a Ridley supporter back in the day. I still remember the day I saw Ridley was a stage hazard in that direct, it really hurt so much. But hey, guess who's my main now.

Don't stop supporting your char or the game he's from, who knows maybe Mario RPG will get a sequel. Don't be like the Bomberman fanbase and go dormant because the company got absorbed. You'd be amazed what fan demand can do.

 

[ForsakenM]

If nothing else, the Famitsu column this week will be an interesting read

This right here. This is the last thing I am holding out for in terms of paying attention to Smash news.

I have questions that I need answers to.

How do you get the rights to Geno's likeness to either last from 2015 all the way to 2020/renegotiate for Geno's likeness for base Ultimate in 2017/2018 and keep that contract going until 2020 JUST to bring back the same Mii Costume? Why make us wait that long only to stab us like ****ing Aerith when you could have ripped off the Bandaid as far back as July 2019?

You acknowledged us before and said that 'you wanted to give us something' since you couldn't get him in the last two times. This is Smash Ultimate, the game that got Inklings, Daisy, Ridley, King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Joker, Hero, B&K, Steve and Sephiroth as well as all the returning veterans and a metric crapola of stages and a YouTube AI-generated playlist's worth of music. Everyone Is Here, and no one seemed impossible...so why was Geno impossible?

I don't want excuses, and I don't care if it shouldn't be told or if there is some sort of corporate binding: I want him to come forward and tell us exactly WHY he couldn't do it the third time around. Maybe that sounds entitled, but after 24 years of my almost 30 year life of wanting Geno to come back and SMRPG to be a thing again and after campaigning and debating crazy hard since the Ultimate hype train started, I wouldn't think it too much to ask just simply WHY this happened again.

Was it Square, refusing to make him playable and wanting to make real money off of Sephiroth, and somehow Vol 2 really IS the last of the DLC and you have corporate rules to only include one character per company per pass and THAT is why you got the costume so that yet again we got SOMETHING?

Was it Nintendo, with their new corporate greed and the heavy possibility that Nintendo's new views about unique new Mario characters and their current lore of Luma and whatnot clash with Geno's design, thus making Nintendo refuse to allow it and push Sakurai for something else?

Was it you, Sakurai, and you just fulfilled that desire for that kind of character or you just simply do not care about making him playable anymore when there are more iconic characters to add to your amazing game?

Once I get that answer, the likelihood of me just dropping out from here and speculation as a whole is massive, as there really isn't much to talk about and frankly, there is no more reason to speculate about Geno. All the evidence we had lead to nothing, and now it's only hopes and prayers of fans who know it's essentially asking for a miracle instead of evidence, facts and confidence pushing us along.

Sure, we have three more character slots and could have more DLC, but the way they are getting the last of the returning costumes now almost feels like it is signalling that Vol 2 is the end of the DLC and Geno's costume returning only to have him be playable later makes no sense at all. Sure, technically Mii Costumes killing characters is just a fan rule, but if you apply that to Geno then you have to imply that to Heihachi, Gil, Travis and so many more as well as Spirits like Astral Chain or Resident Evil, meaning basically all these things we previously suggested are impossible to get characters from would now ALL be back on the table. You can't just say it only applies for Geno: it either applies in ALL logical instances, or it applies in none and thus Geno is dead.

I have a friend who didn't even know about Geno before myself and another friend talked about him, and he started rooting for us too. When I told him the news he had sympathy for us, but he also swears up and down that 'it's just a fake out' and that Geno will show up later as a huge surprise because 'we have a fanbase that really can't be ignored'.

Well apparently we CAN be ignored, and I wish I still had that enthusiasm...

 

[dream1ng]

This right here. This is the last thing I am holding out for in terms of paying attention to Smash news.

I have questions that I need answers to.

How do you get the rights to Geno's likeness to either last from 2015 all the way to 2020/renegotiate for Geno's likeness for base Ultimate in 2017/2018 and keep that contract going until 2020 JUST to bring back the same Mii Costume?

Same way as the other returning costumes I reckon.

Why make us wait that long only to stab us like ****ing Aerith when you could have ripped off the Bandaid as far back as July 2019?

Because the Square costume came with the Square character, as is pretty typical.

You acknowledged us before and said that 'you wanted to give us something' since you couldn't get him in the last two times. This is Smash Ultimate, the game that got Inklings, Daisy, Ridley, King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Joker, Hero, B&K, Steve and Sephiroth as well as all the returning veterans and a metric crapola of stages and a YouTube AI-generated playlist's worth of music. Everyone Is Here, and no one seemed impossible...so why was Geno impossible?

He wasn't impossible, he just wasn't priority.

I don't want excuses, and I don't care if it shouldn't be told or if there is some sort of corporate binding: I want him to come forward and tell us exactly WHY he couldn't do it the third time around. Maybe that sounds entitled, but after 24 years of my almost 30 year life of wanting Geno to come back and SMRPG to be a thing again and after campaigning and debating crazy hard since the Ultimate hype train started, I wouldn't think it too much to ask just simply WHY this happened again.

Why? Because they found other additions more worthwhile, such as one of the most famous antagonists in gaming. Second out of all of them, if you ask Sakurai.

Was it Square, refusing to make him playable and wanting to make real money off of Sephiroth, and somehow Vol 2 really IS the last of the DLC and you have corporate rules to only include one character per company per pass and THAT is why you got the costume so that yet again we got SOMETHING?

Was it Nintendo, with their new corporate greed and the heavy possibility that Nintendo's new views about unique new Mario characters and their current lore of Luma and whatnot clash with Geno's design, thus making Nintendo refuse to allow it and push Sakurai for something else?

Was it you, Sakurai, and you just fulfilled that desire for that kind of character or you just simply do not care about making him playable anymore when there are more iconic characters to add to your amazing game?

It was probably Nintendo who decided on another FF character, and Sakurai and Square were fine with it, because why wouldn't they be?

Once I get that answer, the likelihood of me just dropping out from here and speculation as a whole is massive, as there really isn't much to talk about and frankly, there is no more reason to speculate about Geno. All the evidence we had lead to nothing, and now it's only hopes and prayers of fans who know it's essentially asking for a miracle instead of evidence, facts and confidence pushing us along.

To be frank, you'll be lucky to get Geno mentioned at all. Costumes usually aren't talked about.

Sure, we have three more character slots and could have more DLC, but the way they are getting the last of the returning costumes now almost feels like it is signalling that Vol 2 is the end of the DLC and Geno's costume returning only to have him be playable later makes no sense at all. Sure, technically Mii Costumes killing characters is just a fan rule, but if you apply that to Geno then you have to imply that to Heihachi, Gil, Travis and so many more as well as Spirits like Astral Chain or Resident Evil, meaning basically all these things we previously suggested are impossible to get characters from would now ALL be back on the table. You can't just say it only applies for Geno: it either applies in ALL logical instances, or it applies in none and thus Geno is dead.

Agreed.

I have a friend who didn't even know about Geno before myself and another friend talked about him, and he started rooting for us too. When I told him the news he had sympathy for us, but he also swears up and down that 'it's just a fake out' and that Geno will show up later as a huge surprise because 'we have a fanbase that really can't be ignored'.

Well apparently we CAN be ignored, and I wish I still had that enthusiasm...

You weren't ignored, you just didn't get the outcome you wanted. Geno is still there, and he's only there in the first place because of the fanbase.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Haven't watched the presentation yet. Instead I got the news from @pinshadow (thank you for giving it to me straight, I really do appreciate it).

I'd be lying if I said that Geno being Mii Costume'd, especially this late into Smash Ultimate's DLC cycle, wasn't demoralizing. It really feels like either Nintendo and/or Square Enix heard our requests and decided to just plug their ears and go "Not listening! La la la la la!", or that Sakurai for whatever reason did a 180 from his statement all the way back from Smash 4's DLC cycle and is now giving Geno fans the cold shoulder... it's probably not like that, but it certainly feels like it, and no amount of "fan demand never mattered" or "Geno was just out-prioritized" statements is gonna change that feeling.

I've also come to realize something, something that I should've realized when Byleth was included, but is now perfectly clear to me in light of Geno's Mii Costume: letting Nintendo choose the DLC characters was a big mistake, possibly the biggest one made with Smash Ultimate. When Sakurai was in charge of the characters for the base roster, there were a couple duds () but for the most part it was heavy-hitting fan favorite after fan favorite to please as many fans as possible (). Now that Nintendo's in charge though? That's not happening, or at least I don't think it's Nintendo's intention. They evidently don't care about pleasing fans, so much as they care about getting "big name" popular characters that will draw in outsiders and get them hooked to Smash, even if doing so is to the detriment of Smash's hardcore fans and their long-standing requests. The one time they picked a character who was explicitly aimed at hardcore fans () was apparently a total fluke, and the other characters who weren't fan favorites but were still positively received by Smash fans as a whole () was just them getting lucky. The rest () were examples of this backfiring and exposing the flaws in selecting DLC like this, since it resulted in the shafting of fan favorite picks like Dante and Geno. People were seriously considering Jonesy from Fortnite to be a possible outcome at the Game Awards, and in light Sephiroth and his Mii Costume wave, that's not surprising to me in the least.

If I had to compare this to anything, the one thing that comes to my mind is Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite, and how that game's roster (or at least its Marvel characters) was picked not because the characters would make fans happy (if that were the case, the X-Men would still be there) but because the chosen characters were getting popular through the Marvel movies and they though they could get the movie fans hooked to the Marvel vs. Capcom series. Yeah, Sephiroth is an iconic video game character and one of the most recognizable villains in video games, just like how Thanos is an iconic comic book character and one of the most recognizable villains in comics... but I doubt either character was chosen just because fans wanted them in the game that badly to the point of making it in over long-standing requests and fan favorites like Geno and Asura (at least Thanos has the excuse of being in previous MVC games, thus making him a veteran).

If anyone wants to hold out hope for Geno making it into Ultimate (not the next Smash game that likely won't be out for like five to seven years, but Ultimate specifically), the best bet is to hope for two things...

1. Smash Ultimate ends up getting a third Fighters Pass...
2. ... and that Geno or another Mii Costume'd character like Rex or Heihachi gets in, proving that Mii Fighter costumes aren't hard deconfirmations.

If both of those requirements are met before the end of Fighters Pass 2, then Geno might still be on the table. Until then... this looks like the end of the road. Congratulations, Nintendo. You sure pleased the fans with that Mii Costume. Hope you're proud of yourselves.

Now I know exactly how Mega Man X fans felt when they saw this costume back in 2011...
View attachment 296116

I happened to write exactly same kinds of thoughts out there in the raging toxic cesspool that is Twitter, defending on the Geno-fans and explaining as much as I could about how their support stretches all the way to Brawl's SmashDOJO!-era with it's own poll suggestions. (Trust me, I know where to handle what I choose to engage in there, and don't exactly visit it often due not having any following anyway/conversing with my friends more or less).

The comparison between MVCI really demonstrates how I find the situation with Smash not only kind of hypocritical in a sense next to crossover franchises that doesn't enjoy as much revered fame and hype as Smash does, especially when they might end up doing what are clearly joke characters themselves, or end up making questionable roster choices/decisions that will gain them tons of (well-deserved) criticism from them fanbases following these series for so long time.

Yet with Smash, I keep seeing this phenomenon where all this new audiences drawn to the series through all these broadly appealing 3rd Party additions, now are acting this toxic and disrespectful out of spoiled ignorance to the longer-running veterans of Smash-franchise all way from Brawl - though I'm sure the more lousier parts of these fanbases as well might have contributed on the growing resentment and spite to them as well.

It's a never-ending cycle of hating and despite - and I hope Sakurai gets to hop off from leading a series that more or less looks to continue to unfortunately do that, utterly beyond his control.

 

[ForsakenM]

Same way as the other returning costumes I reckon.

That doesn't answer the question of waiting so long to reveal the exact same costume.

Because the Square costume came with the Square character, as is pretty typical.

Yes, but why didn't they bring him with Hero? If they were going to bring him back no matter what, why wait so long? You already had rights to his likeness way before, so waiting this long to wake us up from Dreamland makes no sense and is anti-consumer for someone who KNOWS how requested the puppet is.

He wasn't impossible, he just wasn't priority.

Considering Sakurai's desire and the swelling of the fandom behind him, why wasn't he a priority? Who decided that? Was it Square, wanting more money? Was it Nintendo, being stupid about new Mario characters? Was it himself, no longer having a desire for the character? I need this answer from the man himself.

Why? Because they found other additions more worthwhile, such as one of the most famous antagonists in gaming. Second out of all of them, if you ask Sakurai.

This is YOUR answer, not Sakurai's. In addition, we had time for Byleth and Min Min, so we have had time for less-iconic and important characters in gaming already. Plus, Geno represents Mario RPGs and the first one to boot, so while he's not Sephiroth it's not like he means nothing to gaming.

It was probably Nintendo who decided on another FF character, and Sakurai and Square were fine with it, because why wouldn't they be?

Yes, but I need SAKURAI to say that, not you. As of now, it's speculation. If it turns out to be true, then I can take action but making sure the all my future Geno or SMRPG-related content flips Nintendo the middle finger so they get that people care about this stuff and maybe they should to.

To be frank, you'll be lucky to get Geno mentioned at all. Costumes usually aren't talked about.

Actually, that isn't true, looking back at Smash 4. Also, this is a big enough deal that it kinda has to be addressed.

Agreed.

Cool.

You weren't ignored, you just didn't get the outcome you wanted. Geno is still there, and he's only there in the first place because of the fanbase.

This is actually incorrect.

In Melee, we were ignored.

In Brawl, we were ignored.

In Smash 4, we got a consolation prize, recognition by Sakurai, and hope for the future.

In Ultimate, as of this point, we have been ignored. We asked for him to be a character, and got the same damn consolation prize with no explanation as to why. This is why I'm suggesting the puppet in the room needs to be addressed in the next Famitsu Column, because Geno has swelled up into something so big that he's everywhere and to the point that people actively wanted him to end up like this because they hated us fans just for existing and liking and older character that was less relevant.

 

[Dee Dude]

Either way, we better campaign the **** out of Geno next time there’s another Ballot or Smash game, or atleast ask him in Mario spin-offs or a Super Mario RPG remake/sequel/whatever just like what happened with K.Rool, another “irrelevant” SNES era character from the Mario/DKverse.

Y’all gotta remember that you’re not the only ones who are still suffering decades of rejection, Isaac fans know that pain all too well, it definitely raises questions why they didn’t make his costume comeback a big deal and simply went “ok, it’s back.”

I’m not saying he’s still gonna be in, as far as my opinion goes, he’s currently dead in the water and screwed over but I do wish to wonder and hope what’ll lie for his future.

 

[Geno Boost]

盛り上がってきている様なので
ボツ案をいくつかご覧ください。#ジーノ参戦　#マリオRPG pic.twitter.com/iFhwp7yExX

— 倉島一幸 (@kurashimakaz) December 18, 2020

Apparently we got 4 early concept artwork of Geno and this make me realize something
The whole story that during SMRPG development they were originally going to give Mario and changed it means they have tossed the idea to a different character and that character was Geno but surprisingly his early designs all contain swords and if the final version looked like any of those designs Geno probably wouldn’t have been as much memorable as he is now but thankfully they gave him gun and have chosen the perfect design for him.
Yet I am curious if those designs will ever be used again? Wait..
I think..
HOLD ON!!!!
I think it has been used a year after SMRPG has been released in a game called Moon: remix RPG adventure a design of version 1 Geno is very similar to one of the main characters of that game.

He is called “The Hero” in the game what are the possibilities this could be another secret identity of Geno concept after all he never revealed his face.
At the start of the game he is level 1 and can barely deal 1 damage per turn with his physical attacks. By the end of the game, each of his attacks deals 9999 damage, allowing him to one-hit kill pretty much anything. He's a knight whose mission is to defeat the Final Boss, a dragon, and return the moonlight it stole.
Sounds familiar was this Geno the whole damn time but we didn’t know it?!?! However he is given a description of being a jerk for reasons
The armor possessed him as soon as he put it on, forcing him into a murderous state. Unfortunately, he never snaps out of it, and dies after everything is over.
I have not played that game yet but I am aware there are many familiar SMRPG concepts in it.
Geno could have been possibly given multiple character development during SMRPG but they agreed on not making him a jerk

 

[super88cloud]

( Bitter as **** rant incoming, toxic)

Well, **** that 5% percent.
Sigh....
It wasn´t even a deluxe costume. This is some dirty ass ****.
TBH, it makes me sad. I do think it´s delusional to believe that Geno will break the mii costume rule.
Too much time has passed, to be honest, again.
----
I really think the switch will be my last nintendo console. I said that with the WIi, but so far, the switch has left me bitter. It has great games don´t get me wrong. But Nintendo has changed, something intrinsically. It used to have two ways of thinking, using cheap tech for the portables, and something beefier with the consoles.
It used to be THE king of games, but so far, it just has been using the same three franchises and just perfecting them. or worse, ****ing them up, see pokemon. the rest are gathering dust( Star fox, F zero, Mother,Chibi Robo,Punch out, advance wars, golden sun.......)
Some are stuck in development hell or just have ports.
And instead of using their forgotten franchises, they experiment with gimmick games. Labo, mario kart tour.
Sure, they´re fun,for a week, and then they´re forgotten.
Whatever happened to brand new worlds and characters?
It makes me mad, because the switch concept has so much potential and it´s wasted all the goddamn time.
The online is a joke, the switch´s wifi antenna is laughable, the prices of the games are ridiculous and the joycon drift is lawsuit worthy.
Ignoring fans or outright disrespecting them, cancelling Melee tournaments. Cancelling Splatoon tournaments.

Something tells me that Nintendo will feel some kind of reckoning next year. Maybe they will **** up like CDPR or they will **** up like Sony with the online data stuff. And they will deserve every bit of **** coming to them. They have gotten to goddamn big for themselves.

TL;DR
**** Nintendo corp.

 

[Genoxys]

Really upset about Geno. I absolutely see this as a deconfirmation. But, at the same time, I keep catching myself humming one-winged angel. Seph killed geno, but seph is a cool character. I can't help but appreciate him. And besides, I love smash. I wouldn't have been pulling for Geno to enter smash so hard if I didn't. This was the worst case scenario in my book (not even deluxe costume, I knew we'd get SOMETHING) but I'll look forward to smash 6. After all, 6 has to get some fan favorites that ultimate didn't.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Geno was very illogical to come with Hero for a while now. The only legitimate reason to put it there was because there was no plans for Season 2 at best. But there were by that point. What happened? Oh, right, Geno is from what is basically a Mario game given the Final Fantasy design and came with the most logical character by that point. Along with Chocobo Hat. Never mind that Geno is literally tied to Square. Don't pretend Enix and Square aren't separated at all. They clearly are, but even if you don't entirely buy that as an idea, it's been proven that Square-Enix has IP's separated by different IP holders. They didn't want Geno there cause he made zero sense at that point.

Geno is definitely not the same costume. It's a very weak update, but it's still different. It's just so mild that it's not notable regardless of the small differences. It should've been premium, full stop, with a proper song, giving an actual bone to the fans. But that wasn't the case regardless. What's the most likely is only Sakurai really wanted him in and Nintendo simply didn't, so they went for who they chose. Geno was likely not among the ones Nintendo gave Sakurai for discussion at this point.

Costumes don't have some time limit to come out anyway. They'll come with whatever the companies plan together. This is literally the reason why Cacomallow even was given the time of the day after being a blatant fake due to not being taken down, and not coming with Min Min(as Byleth was slightly justified, if the costumes weren't finished enough as is. They aren't going to record them until they're sure it's done, which they leaked in a clearly unfinished state anyway. And anybody expecting 'em to come with Terry was not looking at the dates well. No, they were definitely not even complete by that point, so it's impossible).

I'm not even surprised it came with a Square character either. It still sucks, but it was going to be here or not come back at all anyway. He fits nowhere else better at that point. You could argue B&K, but not when they had another proper character to connect to. We found out not long after another Pass was coming, which made it easy to see why he could've been saved for later. That said, this is noting that in hindsight, it makes sense now. It obviously was awkward during Hero's presentation, and I agree it was a weird omission in context. But that's how it goes sometimes.

That said, I do wish Chocobo Hat wasn't the only thing not hard connected to VII among the various FF stuff. But I'm not surprised either. We knew well that it's FFVII that's the one being represented by now, not FF in general. And Chocobo is the only one bending the idea at most. The songs, the spirits, the costumes. For the record, I would've rather had Moogle Hat than Geno's costume(and to also note, I had my predictions mostly right, but Geno was not made a smart business move premium anyway). It's probably because Geno's costume was complete before Hero but moved, so they didn't need to outright change any licensing. Considering the content is not cheap, Sakurai and Nintendo keeping it simple so they didn't need to charge more for the puppet is understandable.

I'm hoping he comes in Smash 6, though. I've been wanting to use a full out body weapon character for a while now in Smash. And he's the only one who fits the Jianshi style besides a character from Darkstalkers(Lei Lei) among the video games characters I know well enough. ...Albeit, I support L. Raptor and Morrigan Aensland more, but you get the point. A "living weapon" is not that often used in a fighting game. There's a decent amount who summon actual weapons(in a sense, Simon/Richter almost do this. But they're pulling it out, it's not an inherent part of their body). I do admit it's likely not going to be too unique from multi-weapon users either way, but the aesthetic makes a difference to me. Timed hits honestly sound fun too, since I miss the original Dancing Blade, so.

 

[dream1ng]

That doesn't answer the question of waiting so long to reveal the exact same costume.

The next part does.

Also, people will be waiting even longer for Lloyd.

Yes, but why didn't they bring him with Hero? If they were going to bring him back no matter what, why wait so long? You already had rights to his likeness way before, so waiting this long to wake us up from Dreamland makes no sense and is anti-consumer for someone who KNOWS how requested the puppet is.

Because they paired the Square character with the Square costumes, and the Enix characters with the Enix costumes. It's pretty straightforward.

Why wait so long? Because this is when the Square character released, and the character gets priority.

Considering Sakurai's desire and the swelling of the fandom behind him, why wasn't he a priority?

Because the company that owns him also owns characters like Sephiroth.

Also, this Sakurai desire business has now failed to get Geno in for four different rounds of character inclusion since Square has been involved. I'd suggest you not lend it so much weight.

Who decided that? Was it Square, wanting more money? Was it Nintendo, being stupid about new Mario characters? Was it himself, no longer having a desire for the character? I need this answer from the man himself.

You're assuming they even got to the point where they were negotiating for Geno to be playable. There's no reason to believe that's the case, because by the time of negotiation Nintendo has already decided who they want, and they probably just asked for the costume again, with Square saying ok.

Having a loud fanbase is not sufficient reason to believe Geno is an aberrant situation here.

This is YOUR answer, not Sakurai's. In addition, we had time for Byleth and Min Min, so we have had time for less-iconic and important characters in gaming already. Plus, Geno represents Mario RPGs and the first one to boot, so while he's not Sephiroth it's not like he means nothing to gaming.

You don't need me to say anything, all you have to do is look at the fact that three other SE characters have been included over Geno.

They don't prioritize him as highly as other options from the company when it comes to playability. At least they do for the costumes.

Yes, but I need SAKURAI to say that, not you. As of now, it's speculation. If it turns out to be true, then I can take action but making sure the all my future Geno or SMRPG-related content flips Nintendo the middle finger so they get that people care about this stuff and maybe they should to.

Sakurai has said how characters get chosen. I'm restating it.

Actually, that isn't true, looking back at Smash 4. Also, this is a big enough deal that it kinda has to be addressed.

That might not be the case for Sakurai.

This is actually incorrect.

In Melee, we were ignored.

In Melee, not only were third-parties not yet a thing, even Wario wasn't on the roster. Some perspective might be in order.

In Brawl, we were ignored.

No you weren't, the very quote you raised is about how Sakurai wanted to include Geno for Brawl. It not panning out doesn't erase that.

In Smash 4, we got a consolation prize, recognition by Sakurai, and hope for the future.

In Ultimate, as of this point, we have been ignored. We asked for him to be a character, and got the same damn consolation prize with no explanation as to why. This is why I'm suggesting the puppet in the room needs to be addressed in the next Famitsu Column, because Geno has swelled up into something so big that he's everywhere and to the point that people actively wanted him to end up like this because they hated us fans just for existing and liking and older character that was less relevant.

You have not been ignored. You have a spirit and the costume. Being ignored would be you having nothing.

Again, you got an outcome you didn't want. Don't be too stubborn to not recognize the difference.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I know everyone is hurting, but I would like to point out that Geno and Super Mario RPG has content and a costume present over TWO much larger world wide Square Enix icons in Lara Croft and Sora/Kingdom Hearts.

Sure Disney is pretty much the hoola hoop for KH content, but Geno has more presence in Smash Bros to show how much of a force he is in the Smash fanbase over LARA CROFT.

Lara Croft. The female character in gaming who is arguably the most recognizable worldwide to people that isn't Princess Peach.

That's a huge ****ing deal.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

I'm sorry for you Geno fans. As a supporter of another character with a Mii Costume in the previous game I can perfectly understand the disappointment that came up the moment it returned in Ultimate.
It might sting at first and it sure is disappointing to think about what could have been in terms of content from that series but it doesn't take away from all the things Ultimate already did. It's still a really fun game and arguably the peak of the Smash series. I began liking to use the costume and made Mii Brawler one of my mains who I still like to use in matches.
I know it's no the real deal but I feel like those costumes can give a very close proxy of those characters actually being playable in the game. For a stage of Geno I saw some very good recreations of Bowser's Keep with Exor once the Stage Builder released and I'm sure dedicated fans can make even more places like the Forest Maze or Monstro Town. I feel like we fans of certain characters and franchises should make more use of the tools the Smash team gave us to customize our experience.
And when it comes to fan support there isn't really any other group that is more dedicated than you Geno fans. It is thanks to your support that a one time character who would have probably completely sunken into obscurity like all the Paper Mario party members made it's way into Smash (one of the best selling games on the Switch) as both a Mii Costume and also one of the strongest spirits in the game. Considering Geno's circumstances as the end of one chapter of Nintendo's history with Squareoft's relation and break up with them shortly after SMRPG's release when Square made the decision to release FF7 for the Playstation due to the use of CDs, it is nothing short of impressive and a miracle that it was possible for Geno to get acknowledged like that, something that probably would have never happened without his fans being as dedicated.
It might not be what was ultimately hoped for, but you as a community can still be proud of you for helping this character get something that he likely would have never gotten otherwise.

 

[AdamBel731]

I've been reading the thread's numerous pages throughout the day and I have to say that mostly everyone here have been absolute champs (and I don't mean that in a condescending way). I have a little bit of a longer post, so if anyone is interested in the ol' zoomer AdamBel's thoughts, give 'em a read. It's a pseudo-goodbye, so don't worry, I'm not totally leaving for those who care! You won't rid of me completely just yet.

Spoiler: Thoughts on Geno's Future and My Future Here

I genuinely believed Geno was a shoe-in due to all of the seemingly stacking evidence in his favor. Heck, if anyone remembers when I brought this up, I made a small money wager with my brother that Geno would be playable. I genuinely believed.

...unfortunately, Geno's Mii costume appeared. And while upgraded to an extent (that cape looks nifty), it didn't come with a modeled head/face nor even Beware of the Forest's Mushrooms. Frankly, I was shocked, but also not surprised. That's the dichotomy with Smash, you know? At one moment Sakurai will bring you up to the highest of heavens... and the next moment he'll dunk you into the ground (99% not intentionally, I will always believe). It would be nice if Sakurai and Nintendo always used things like the Smash 4 Fighter Ballot as a direct link to Smash's hardcore fans and corporate Nintendo... but that isn't reality.

I mentioned I would stay with you guys until the end of the line, and for me, that isn't quite now but I will be following you guys less frequently now. I feel two ways about what transpired yesterday. On the one hand, people are well within their right to have hope such as Fatmanonice and QQS do, but on the other hand, throwing in the towel such as Pinshadow and ForsakenM is also very rational too.

I realize fan-rules are meant to be broken most of the time. Ultimate has gone on a murder spree in that regard. However, some lines of thinking, while technically "fan-rules", are reasonable in my opinion. Where I stand is that throughout the entirety of Ultimate's DLC, pretty much everyone has said that if you're added as a Spirit or Mii costume post-launch that basically is a death warrant because why would Sakurai add that content in the game unless that series/character wasn't going to be in a Fighters Pass slot? I think that makes logistical sense and that's how I will likely always operate until shown otherwise. Even if a character I want like Dr. Eggman got a random Mii costume post-launch or something, my mentality wouldn't change. I wouldn't operate under a mindset I think is really logical and then throw it out just so I can have a sliver of hope to support who I want.

However, as I admitted before, yes, Ultimate has gone onto kill numerous fan-rules and, frankly, I don't see that stopping. I still legitimately think an Assist Trophy has a shot as Ultimate DLC. ...I think Geno getting in now is a long-shot, I'm sure even hopefuls will agree to that, but I can't (and won't) say Geno is impossible and 100% disconfirmed from Ultimate. However, I won't be giving too much of my time here (unless there's a fighter reveal imminent since you all are my Smash buds) since I personally agree with the notion that a lot of conversation topics are now dried up. A lot of evidence seems to have gone up in smoke. I wish things such as Cacomallow were real, but I guess it is clear to see now it probably isn't. It upsets me that Geno had so much in his favor seemingly, and now seemingly it has mostly evaporated. As a Shadow fan during the 2018 Smash Direct, I know what's that is like... (though Geno definitely had more going for him seemingly, in my opinion).

I think based on sound arguments for how business would work (why would they have a Geno Mii costume if there's gonna be a full-fledged playable Geno) Geno really doesn't look good. But you know what, you guys keep believing. I personally don't think he's coming, but he could be a bonus fighter and I would genuinely be elated for being wrong! Tons of things in Smash weren't seen as likely and look what Ultimate has done. If your hope is what keeps your love for Geno alive, then never lose that hope. I agree that this whole thing isn't officially over until Sakurai leaves Ultimate and no more fighters release.

I'll say it once more for the people in the back, but I have been a part of this thread for over a year and a half because of your guys' passion for Geno. Some may remember my confession when I admitted I used to absolutely hate Geno. But as I mellowed out and found your thread and heard all of your stories, I started to root for Geno not because I personally wanted him, but because I wanted you all to finally have your wish granted. People have said this already, but isn't it telling that because of all of you Geno has gotten a Mii costume twice? A character that is looked down upon for being a secondary character of a two decade old Mario spin-off that hasn't really been seen since... has MULTIPLE forms of representation (Spirit, online icon, and now Mii costume) because YOU kept the faith. I think Geno for Ultimate is a long-shot now with the Mii costume returning, but to anyone saying Geno fans' support and hope have been for nothing... well, frankly, I think it is clear to see that those detractors are objectively wrong. Ultimate may not be Geno's time, but it WILL be eventually. If you don't want him to fade off into obscurity, well, then just keep on doing what you guys have been doing. Keep Geno alive and Nintendo and/or Square Enix seemingly won't because someday, I truly believe, your guys' wishes WILL pay off.


Until Fighter #9~

Adiós, ciao, sayonara, bon voyage, au revoir, adieu, auf wiedersehen, goodbye!

See you guys and gals again soon! I'll be all until the end of the line!

 

[Staarih]

I've found myself being surprisingly bummed by the costume haha, I was never an avid Geno supporter but did think his inclusion would be cool (even if the theorycrafting-side of speculation around him went wayyy overboard at times)... maybe because he crept on to become one of the bigger names in Smash speculation, so I figured he deserved his place in the roster.

I think the letdown is just because the costume was not updated to a deluxe-version, which would have implied at least a small step in the right direction and a nod towards his huge fandom which is hard to ignore. Then again, maybe we live in a bubble and Geno is just that obscure of a character that even a Mii costume is a miracle in itself. It's also hard to justify why Geno would get special treatment at this point as opposed to any other Mii costume (I guess popularity but how is that actually measured). Plus all the business aspects of thing. Oh well, at least way more people are exposed to Geno via Ultimate versus Smash 4, so in the future people are even more aware of the character.

 

[LunarDistortion]

I know everyone is hurting, but I would like to point out that Geno and Super Mario RPG has content and a costume present over TWO much larger world wide Square Enix icons in Lara Croft and Sora/Kingdom Hearts.

Sure Disney is pretty much the hoola hoop for KH content, but Geno has more presence in Smash Bros to show how much of a force he is in the Smash fanbase over LARA CROFT.

Lara Croft. The female character in gaming who is arguably the most recognizable worldwide to people that isn't Princess Peach.

That's a huge ****ing deal.

Or how about Chrono Trigger even? Not a single reference for them despite being one of the most popular RPGs on the Super Nintendo.

You know what SNES RPG character did get represented though? How about that ****! We beat out Sora and Chrono through all that Seven Square stuff. That ain't nothin!

I've found myself being surprisingly bummed by the costume haha, I was never an avid Geno supporter but did think his inclusion would be cool (even if the theorycrafting-side of speculation around him went wayyy overboard at times)... maybe because he crept on to become one of the bigger names in Smash speculation, so I figured he deserved his place in the roster.

I think the letdown is just because the costume was not updated to a deluxe-version, which would have implied at least a small step in the right direction and a nod towards his huge fandom which is hard to ignore. Then again, maybe we live in a bubble and Geno is just that obscure of a character that even a Mii costume is a miracle in itself. It's also hard to justify why Geno would get special treatment at this point as opposed to any other Mii costume (I guess popularity but how is that actually measured). Plus all the business aspects of thing. Oh well, at least way more people are exposed to Geno via Ultimate versus Smash 4, so in the future people are even more aware of the character.

I remember back when Bayo "won" the Smash Ballot over K. Rool I was in the Rool thread saying the exact same thing about bubbles. Doubting the size of the K. Rool fanbase, and that "if Bayo won and we had no idea Bayo fans even existed, what does that say for our #1 Smash community pick? Is he really as popular as we think he is, and are there really as many of us as we think there are?" We know how that turned out in the end.

Geno was popular enough to get all this. Sure, maybe Geno isn't as big as frikkin Sephiroth, one of the most iconic villains of all time from one of the most loved games of all time, but he apparently got pretty darn close. Let's not forget that.