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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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RetrogamerMax

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I can't believe it's been 2 years since Ultimate came out. Time flies. It's even harder for me to believe Melee came out 19 years ago as I remember playing it around launch back in 2001 when I was 5 or almost 5. It's scary because I remember playing Melee for the first time like it was yesterday. Melee was my first Smash game and it was the first time I was introduced to franchises like Metroid, Star Fox, Kirby, F-Zero, Mother, Fire Emblem, ect. The only Nintendo franchises I've played games from and knew about before Smash were Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Donkey Kong. It was a mind blowing experience for me seeing all these different video game characters together the first time I played Smash Bros. Melee.
 
D

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I respect the logic, but I’m telling you, COVID throws all logic and patterns out the door. Doing this math at this point is relatively pointless given we have no clue exactly how backed up Nintendo is. And Nintendo isn’t the only one.
I mean, two of things I'm saying are challenged by this were before COVID struck, one of them well before. I'd understand if Mii Costume guy was telling us about Smithy and Mallow in say... January, but the situation is that we assume characters are being worked on four at a time and Mii Costume guy is telling us the costumes for a character who is, at the time, six characters away at the bare minimum (Hero and Banjo just announced at this point - Hero in spit and polish phase, Banjo late development, Terry early development, Byleth planning). Mii costume guy would have to have been in on the ground floor of ****ing negotiations, at which point we also have to assume that they negotiate costumes at the same time... And yet he couldn't include Ninjara or Creeper in there?

This is the kind of stuff that makes me double down on the idea that Mii Costume Guy, whoever he is, is a legitimate information source insofar as he knew Terry's spirit board and Banjo's costumes, but Smithy and Mallow were tacked on by a middle man and distributed to several notable "leakers" or tertiary/quaternary sources. Maliciously, might I add.

The same goes for Cacomallow. At the time that it was "released", Terry was ready to go so we can knock him off the table, but our four would be Byleth in final development, Min Min in development, and Steve in planning... So we're really gonna assume that they're making Mii costumes for characters who can only check the "negotiated for" box?

Geno can be 8, sure - but these things are coincidental to him at this point if he does turn out to be 8.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Funny thing is? I've never ripped a game in my life. I own the physical copy of almost every game I have emulated(which includes the base game that a romhack was made out of) except literally one. But that obviously doesn't count as "doing it right" either way, but at least I try enough to buy the damn gams.

I just don't see any good reason to support pirating Melee and then advertising it. What'd you think would happen? I highly doubt they didn't pirate the content as well, since that's exactly a good way to get back at Nintendo for not re-releasing it. By not spending outright money on them. Regardless, it also ruined the livestream of Splatoon 2 by spamming unrelated stuff, and was promoting piracy.

Nintendo can't let people promote stealing their content, you know? No company can outright. It made sense what happened. Whether you like Melee or not(I do, but I do agree there's lots of toxic fans), you shouldn't promote illegal activities with it. The Project M thing was already complicated enough. Besides, I wonder if they're aware how little it makes sense to remake Melee from a business standpoint. They need to redo the controller outputs so they work properly, as the GameCube Controllers actually don't have the same exact L/R delays/inputs(clicks or whatever) either. Then there's updating the graphics. Possibly giving it any other changes, including things like online, other playable NPC's, etc. And it can't take away from Ultimate Sales. My guess is, if they would re-release it, it'd be after DLC is done, and the Switch is still active. ...So probably never.

The controller part sucks, since that's why it's also hard to emulate a single GameCube game to the Switch. If any use the Controller clicking, which doesn't currently work, they have to do way more than just port it. And that's not getting into the memory card issues they still have had. So that's more work. The lack of emulation constantly is logical. They had to remake a lot of stuff just for Sunshine's port too.
 
D

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Funny thing is? I've never ripped a game in my life. I own the physical copy of almost every game I have emulated(which includes the base game that a romhack was made out of) except literally one. But that obviously doesn't count as "doing it right" either way, but at least I try enough to buy the damn gams.

I just don't see any good reason to support pirating Melee and then advertising it. What'd you think would happen? I highly doubt they didn't pirate the content as well, since that's exactly a good way to get back at Nintendo for not re-releasing it. By not spending outright money on them. Regardless, it also ruined the livestream of Splatoon 2 by spamming unrelated stuff, and was promoting piracy.

Nintendo can't let people promote stealing their content, you know? No company can outright. It made sense what happened. Whether you like Melee or not(I do, but I do agree there's lots of toxic fans), you shouldn't promote illegal activities with it. The Project M thing was already complicated enough. Besides, I wonder if they're aware how little it makes sense to remake Melee from a business standpoint. They need to redo the controller outputs so they work properly, as the GameCube Controllers actually don't have the same exact L/R delays/inputs(clicks or whatever) either. Then there's updating the graphics. Possibly giving it any other changes, including things like online, other playable NPC's, etc. And it can't take away from Ultimate Sales. My guess is, if they would re-release it, it'd be after DLC is done, and the Switch is still active. ...So probably never.

The controller part sucks, since that's why it's also hard to emulate a single GameCube game to the Switch. If any use the Controller clicking, which doesn't currently work, they have to do way more than just port it. And that's not getting into the memory card issues they still have had. So that's more work. The lack of emulation constantly is logical. They had to remake a lot of stuff just for Sunshine's port too.
That time that Sakurai asked Zero or whoever it was "have you ever made a game" becomes more and more relevant as Melee fans demand more and more.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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That time that Sakurai asked Zero or whoever it was "have you ever made a game" becomes more and more relevant as Melee fans demand more and more.
That too, heh.

And I have worked on games. Even before you get to the programming part? It's very difficult to make anything unique. You need tons of animations for the simplest of games, unless it's like an Atari game like Adventure.

Remember when Mario Kart 64's port couldn't do save files? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Essentially a lot of these Nintendo stories are occurring at the worst possible time and on top of previously existing controversies like dubious online, Joy Con drift, timed releases, and generally unimpressive handling of legacy content. I'm not wholly outraged by what Nintendo's doing, but I certainly won't shed any tears if it hurts their PR image either. There's a lot backwards stubbornness when it comes to their decisions and quite frankly they're overdue for some negative press, even I suspect it won't affect their bottom line that much.
 

RetrogamerMax

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So speaking of Ultimate's 2 year anniversary, you guys remember during this time 2 years ago when Hitagi said Steve, Katalina, and Erdrick were in and Verge knew him claiming he was somewhat credible? Good times lmao! Hey Fatmanonice Fatmanonice , didn't you said there was Katalina hentai in Hitagi's Internet history?
 
D

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Funny thing is? I've never ripped a game in my life. I own the physical copy of almost every game I have emulated(which includes the base game that a romhack was made out of) except literally one. But that obviously doesn't count as "doing it right" either way, but at least I try enough to buy the damn gams.

I just don't see any good reason to support pirating Melee and then advertising it. What'd you think would happen? I highly doubt they didn't pirate the content as well, since that's exactly a good way to get back at Nintendo for not re-releasing it. By not spending outright money on them. Regardless, it also ruined the livestream of Splatoon 2 by spamming unrelated stuff, and was promoting piracy.

Nintendo can't let people promote stealing their content, you know? No company can outright. It made sense what happened. Whether you like Melee or not(I do, but I do agree there's lots of toxic fans), you shouldn't promote illegal activities with it. The Project M thing was already complicated enough. Besides, I wonder if they're aware how little it makes sense to remake Melee from a business standpoint. They need to redo the controller outputs so they work properly, as the GameCube Controllers actually don't have the same exact L/R delays/inputs(clicks or whatever) either. Then there's updating the graphics. Possibly giving it any other changes, including things like online, other playable NPC's, etc. And it can't take away from Ultimate Sales. My guess is, if they would re-release it, it'd be after DLC is done, and the Switch is still active. ...So probably never.

The controller part sucks, since that's why it's also hard to emulate a single GameCube game to the Switch. If any use the Controller clicking, which doesn't currently work, they have to do way more than just port it. And that's not getting into the memory card issues they still have had. So that's more work. The lack of emulation constantly is logical. They had to remake a lot of stuff just for Sunshine's port too.
You do understand that you don’t even need an illegal copy of Melee to use Slippi right? Just because you read a company’s PR especially the one that does shady business practices does mean it’s necessarily correct or logical on what they’re doing. Literally all slippi does was to emulate and improve online rollback net code.
 
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pinshadow

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  • Re-releasing Melee in any form will drive down Ultimate Sales!
Just...what? This is by far the most confusing argument I've seen people make about this over the past week. Does Capcom releasing all the old Street Fighter games with online drive down sales of Street Fighter V? Is Guilty Gear Strive going to bomb because ArcSys ported some of their older games and gave them online? No, because that's just backwards logic. Re releases like this are kinda niche, they are generally for people who are already fans of these games. You know, the same kind of people who probably already bought Ultimate? And, ok, let's say they only buy Melee. Then you just got a sale you wouldn't have gotten otherwise... do people not remember these games are owned by the same company? That Nintendo gets money either way here, compared to the current situation where they make 0 money on Melee?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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you do understand that you don’t even need an illegal copy of Melee to use Slippi right? Just because you read a company’s PR especially the one that does shady business practices does mean it’s necessarily correct or logical on what they’re doing. Literally all slippi does was to emulate and improve online rollback net code.
The only shady business practice is Slippi putting games online they don't own, which is still modifying how the game works.

Nintendo isn't remotely shady for taking this down. They're in the right here. People need to realize that hacks are dubiously legal for another reason, not cause "lol modifications". The second you distribute it in any way, get this, you are breaking the law on copyrights. It's a cute idea, but they're still promoting a game tons of people can and will pirate. There's a serious lack of access to Melee outside of emulation nowadays. That's why people pirate it. So yes, it blatantly promotes piracy due to the context behind its design. This is why Nintendo won't allow it. And frankly? They shouldn't. They should remake the game(not that they will, since it requires way too much time and would absolutely cull sales for Smash Ultimate, their current Smash project. Don't pretend otherwise. Yes, it will cause problems. People don't want "two Smash games with these characters". Many already only want Melee, and only bought Ultimate simply because of the full list of characters. Some already aren't even bothering. This just makes it worse for sales, if it's split between two games, one that is an outdated game that's harder to support, and one that is a newer game that they are curerntly trying to sell DLC for. Melee people need to let it go. It isn't going to happen for a long time. It was barely feasible).

There's no good defense for its design. Hell, emulators are problematic alone, but thankfully some people rip their own games. It's distributing roms that are absolutely illegal to begin with, under all circumstances(not even modifications matter). I just looked this up. A rom is a computer program, and you cannot distribute these without authorization. This is why romsites are constantly taken down. One key difference is that, while illegal, no company is forced to take action. Trademark law is the only case(which is why JoyconBoyz had to be stopped, otherwise Nintendo would lose their trademark to even making Joycons. All those third-party joycons you constantly can buy? Authorized use, of course. They would've been sued hard if they did without it. Sad situation, but Nintendo wasn't given a choice here. Worth also clarifying Nintendo doesn't know every single case of people doing this, that or E-Bay is able to protect the user so Nintendo can't take action).
 

ForsakenM

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  • Re-releasing Melee in any form will drive down Ultimate Sales!
Just...what? This is by far the most confusing argument I've seen people make about this over the past week. Does Capcom releasing all the old Street Fighter games with online drive down sales of Street Fighter V? Is Guilty Gear Strive going to bomb because ArcSys ported some of their older games and gave them online? No, because that's just backwards logic. Re releases like this are kinda niche, they are generally for people who are already fans of these games. You know, the same kind of people who probably already bought Ultimate? And, ok, let's say they only buy Melee. Then you just got a sale you wouldn't have gotten otherwise... do people not remember these games are owned by the same company? That Nintendo gets money either way here, compared to the current situation where they make 0 money on Melee?
First off, the difference between Melee and other older games is way different, since no other community is trying to act as if Street Fighter EX or Mortal Kombat Armageddon or Blazblue Calamity Trigger are the best games of those franchises while parading around and acting as if bugs, glitches, mods and exploits are forms of innovation for a game almost as old as some zoomers now.

I'm not saying that Melee HD would kill Ultimate, but it would likely hurt the competitive scene even more as elitists would flock to it like crazy. They refuse to let this game die and this onslaught by Nintendo is our best chance at letting that happened. At this point Melee is like an old dog who lived 20 years past what was expected and is in pain just getting around. If Mango is serious about quitting and Nintendo keeps this up and makes Melee fans look super selfish and in support of committing crimes then it very well could spell the end of Melee on a more massive scale.

More likely though Nintendo will have moved on three consoles past the Switch and these nerds will still be spouting how great Melee is in their lazyboys at the nursing home.
 

pinshadow

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First off, the difference between Melee and other older games is way different, since no other community is trying to act as if Street Fighter EX or Mortal Kombat Armageddon or Blazblue Calamity Trigger are the best games of those franchises while parading around and acting as if bugs, glitches, mods and exploits are forms of innovation for a game almost as old as some zoomers now.

I'm not saying that Melee HD would kill Ultimate, but it would likely hurt the competitive scene even more as elitists would flock to it like crazy. They refuse to let this game die and this onslaught by Nintendo is our best chance at letting that happened. At this point Melee is like an old dog who lived 20 years past what was expected and is in pain just getting around. If Mango is serious about quitting and Nintendo keeps this up and makes Melee fans look super selfish and in support of committing crimes then it very well could spell the end of Melee on a more massive scale.

More likely though Nintendo will have moved on three consoles past the Switch and these nerds will still be spouting how great Melee is in their lazyboys at the nursing home.
What are you even talking about, those elitists you hate CLEARLY ALREADY PLAY MELEE? Anyone who actually plays these games competitively made that decision when Ultimate came out. The community is split, and has been split for years, and that hasn't stopped Ultimate from becoming the best selling fighting game of all time. I get that emulation/modding/piracy is a touchy subject but you really aren't helping your case when it's blatantly obvious you're only supporting this because you just despise Melee and it's community.
 
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TriggerX

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Could care less about everything that’s going on with Nintendo and how they treat the competitive scene. It’s best if Nintendo doesn’t get involved at all or even attempt to remake Melee any time soon. Maybe 3 consoles down the road when their network play is potentially as good the ps4/Xbox.

I’m expecting another character to at least be announced by the end of this year. Especially if they insist that the pack will be completed by end of next.

What’s the shortest time we’ve had between actual Dlc releases for Ultimate?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Important to note is that Ultimate is tagged as "Everyone is here". This makes Melee redundant to their eyes alone.

Now you already have a requirement to modify how the controllers work so you have the proper "click" for the shoulder buttons. If you don't do that, the game won't sell alone. That's practically the most important part.

And then, can you justify any changes and know they'll sell? There's a huge amount of Melee elitists who are pissed off that any Smash game doesn't play like Melee. This shouldn't be an issue for adding characters at best, but any balance changes too?

It's a mess Nintendo has no reason to deal with. There's little to no benefit sales-wise if they can't figure out a hard plan that'll work. And why yes, it absolutely competes with Ultimate. This is nothing like those other basic ports. Melee is a hyper active competitive game to this day, and so is Ultimate. Other fighting games are nothing like that because people were willing to move on.

Two entirely different scenarios. The best they can do, and hopefully it won't cause issues, is just re-release Melee with the small controller fix as a semi-cheap port you can buy on the Switch online. And that's the least likely to piss anyone off. By keeping it an offline only game, it's less likely to dig into Ultimate sales, since it'll be harder to make competitive. This'll mean it'll sell fine, but won't outright affect Ultimate as easily, which is far more important to promote than a game people have pirated too. Now here's the kicker. Consider the idea they don't put online in. Wait, what, people don't want it anymore because they can't compete online. There's no way to win. Thus, Nintendo's best move is to avoid any re-releases right now and just keep their sales going without extra drama/any possible bad sales. Which so far is going super well with their plans. And no, they have not done anything to make it harder to sell whatsoever. At most, some disagreeable DLC.
 

MexoKatonSB

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Could care less about everything that’s going on with Nintendo and how they treat the competitive scene. It’s best if Nintendo doesn’t get involved at all or even attempt to remake Melee any time soon. Maybe 3 consoles down the road when their network play is potentially as good the ps4/Xbox.

I’m expecting another character to at least be announced by the end of this year. Especially if they insist that the pack will be completed by end of next.

What’s the shortest time we’ve had between actual Dlc releases for Ultimate?
i think there all usually 2 to 2.5/3 months. with joker being the longest and min min at a close second.

i'd say the closest would be hero and banjo though i could be wrong
 
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MattX20

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But I highlighted that. For Steve to have all his development done in 2020, he would have been in the concept stage starting in November 2019 at the earliest. Here's why that matters:

According to Sakurai himself, Joker, Hero, and Banjo were all in development in December 2018. This is further confirmed because Plant, Joker, and Hero were already in the game's code, meaning Banjo was in the concept creation phase.

December 2018: Plant (polish), Joker and Hero (development), Banjo (concept)

February 2019: Joker (polish), Hero and Banjo (development), Terry (concept)

November 2019: Byleth (polish), Min Min and ??? (development), Steve (concept)

January 2020: Min Min (polish), ??? and Steve (development), ??? (concept)

Note the strong similarities. Like I said before, the typical development cycle of a character is 7-8 months. Byleth was released late January, borderline February. In a sense, Steve would have started development in February. 2+8 = 10, which lands us perfectly in October and Steve was revealed literally the first day of October. Terry was early November, which also lines up with how Hero was supposedly delayed roughly a month.

To add to this, its never been said that development has totally stopped but slowed down for obvious reasons. Sakurai openly talks about fears surrounding this in March but seems to imply a decent system is in place by the end of the summer. Even with this statement, there's still half of the remaining Season 2 packs even before COVID got bad because if you were to do a freeze frame of April 2020, you'd still have this:

April 2020: Min Min (polish), Steve and ??? (development), ??? (concept)
Hmm...the development timeline would imply that FP8 would likely have been finished in November
 

Let Geno Smash

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Felt like I'd repost this. Not any particular reason. Also spoilered because bad words.
So anyway, are we sure this is Conker?
View attachment 294507
Would be absolutely nuts if we got something out of this series before Banjo, especially after the latter's appearance in Ultimate.
Tbh, when I 1st see it I thought it was Blink, but the eyes and ears really look like Conker
 

TheCJBrine

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Felt like I'd repost this. Not any particular reason. Also spoilered because bad words.
So anyway, are we sure this is Conker?
View attachment 294507
Would be absolutely nuts if we got something out of this series before Banjo, especially after the latter's appearance in Ultimate.
It does look like Conker, would be cool if he got something new and actually good.

Tbh I don't see why Microsoft doesn't try to do more with them, they tried having a 3D platformer mascot in Blinx and then barely do much 3D platforming (or anything at all besides a few side-games) with the successful ones they bought? :S At least Banjo & Kazooie got a nice game on the GBA though (and I'm probably one of the few B-K fans who really liked N&B).

edit: based on what this is from, though, it probably doesn't mean anything, unfortunately.
 
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D

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The only shady business practice is Slippi putting games online they don't own, which is still modifying how the game works.

Nintendo isn't remotely shady for taking this down. They're in the right here. People need to realize that hacks are dubiously legal for another reason, not cause "lol modifications". The second you distribute it in any way, get this, you are breaking the law on copyrights. It's a cute idea, but they're still promoting a game tons of people can and will pirate. There's a serious lack of access to Melee outside of emulation nowadays. That's why people pirate it. So yes, it blatantly promotes piracy due to the context behind its design. This is why Nintendo won't allow it. And frankly? They shouldn't. They should remake the game(not that they will, since it requires way too much time and would absolutely cull sales for Smash Ultimate, their current Smash project. Don't pretend otherwise. Yes, it will cause problems. People don't want "two Smash games with these characters". Many already only want Melee, and only bought Ultimate simply because of the full list of characters. Some already aren't even bothering. This just makes it worse for sales, if it's split between two games, one that is an outdated game that's harder to support, and one that is a newer game that they are curerntly trying to sell DLC for. Melee people need to let it go. It isn't going to happen for a long time. It was barely feasible).

There's no good defense for its design. Hell, emulators are problematic alone, but thankfully some people rip their own games. It's distributing roms that are absolutely illegal to begin with, under all circumstances(not even modifications matter). I just looked this up. A rom is a computer program, and you cannot distribute these without authorization. This is why romsites are constantly taken down. One key difference is that, while illegal, no company is forced to take action. Trademark law is the only case(which is why JoyconBoyz had to be stopped, otherwise Nintendo would lose their trademark to even making Joycons. All those third-party joycons you constantly can buy? Authorized use, of course. They would've been sued hard if they did without it. Sad situation, but Nintendo wasn't given a choice here. Worth also clarifying Nintendo doesn't know every single case of people doing this, that or E-Bay is able to protect the user so Nintendo can't take action).
Important to note is that Ultimate is tagged as "Everyone is here". This makes Melee redundant to their eyes alone.

Now you already have a requirement to modify how the controllers work so you have the proper "click" for the shoulder buttons. If you don't do that, the game won't sell alone. That's practically the most important part.

And then, can you justify any changes and know they'll sell? There's a huge amount of Melee elitists who are pissed off that any Smash game doesn't play like Melee. This shouldn't be an issue for adding characters at best, but any balance changes too?

It's a mess Nintendo has no reason to deal with. There's little to no benefit sales-wise if they can't figure out a hard plan that'll work. And why yes, it absolutely competes with Ultimate. This is nothing like those other basic ports. Melee is a hyper active competitive game to this day, and so is Ultimate. Other fighting games are nothing like that because people were willing to move on.

Two entirely different scenarios. The best they can do, and hopefully it won't cause issues, is just re-release Melee with the small controller fix as a semi-cheap port you can buy on the Switch online. And that's the least likely to piss anyone off. By keeping it an offline only game, it's less likely to dig into Ultimate sales, since it'll be harder to make competitive. This'll mean it'll sell fine, but won't outright affect Ultimate as easily, which is far more important to promote than a game people have pirated too. Now here's the kicker. Consider the idea they don't put online in. Wait, what, people don't want it anymore because they can't compete online. There's no way to win. Thus, Nintendo's best move is to avoid any re-releases right now and just keep their sales going without extra drama/any possible bad sales. Which so far is going super well with their plans. And no, they have not done anything to make it harder to sell whatsoever. At most, some disagreeable DLC.
Or you know... people who are introduced to Melee may also get a copy of Smash Ultimate for the Switch. I think you might be ignoring that possibility. I can’t imagine how simple that would be getting more players to your products by simply watching a tournament of an old ass game. Marvel, Capcom, and SNK allow tournaments of their old games. Are they bothered? Nope. They don’t care of the more superior games. To activity that you’re not even selling and distribute the game, it shouldn’t even financially effect Nintendo. If there was full on piracy, then yes I understand. If there is any code ripped from the game, then the takedown is reasonable. I don’t see how a mod of Dolphin, a 100% legal emulator to begin with is how promoting and encourages players distributing roms to being with. I’m not sure where you get “the lack of Melee so people pirate it” from. What are you talking about? I mean it’s obviously not like you can go on Amazon or eBay buying a used copy. People that will pirate the game, you can virtually say the same for any other game. People will find a way to pirate game hard to find or not. A tournament organized by a well funded organization shouldn’t even have this problem allowing or promoting players pirated the game being part of the tournament. What the organization is doing, that’s how you do any online tournament. It’s Nintendo being Nintendo. Holding back the Smash community not just Melee. The same guys that make a limited release during a pandemic and force creators to share profit their profits with them. It should be obvious at this point that they don’t really care supporting their communities. I’m sorry but from your post, it seems that you’re a bit biased against the Melee community.
 
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Sigran101

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I feel we could get something Nintendo related at The Game Awards. Although, probably just wishful thinking on my part. Sadly...

In other news, he's f*ckin back.

Edit:
Essentially, Xbox posted a trailer for the Series X on their Twitter page and the trailer seems to tease something involving a certain alcoholic squirrel...
If you actually watch the trailer, this is just the cat. It has nothing to do with Conker.
 

MattX20

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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Or you know... people who are introduced to Melee may also get a copy of Smash Ultimate for the Switch. I think you might be ignoring that possibility. I can’t imagine how simple that would be getting more players to your products by simply watching a tournament of an old ass game. Marvel, Capcom, and SNK allow tournaments of these old games. Are they bothered? Nope. They don’t care of the more superior games. To activity that you’re not even selling and distribute the game, it shouldn’t even financially effect Nintendo. If there was full on piracy, then yes I understand. If there is any code ripped from the game, then the takedown is reasonable. I don’t see how a mod of Dolphin, a 100% legal emulator to begin with is how promoting and encourages players distributing roms to being with. I’m not sure where you get “the lack of Melee so people pirate it” from. What are you talking about? I mean it’s obviously not like you can go on Amazon or eBay buying a used copy. People that will pirate the game, you can virtually say the same for any other game. People will find a way to pirate game hard to find or not. A tournament organized by a well funded organization shouldn’t even have this problem allowing or promoting players pirated the game being part of the tournament. What the organization is doing, that’s how you do any online tournament. It’s Nintendo being Nintendo. Holding back the Smash community not just Melee. The same guys that make a limited release during a pandemic and force creators to share profit their profits with them. It should be obvious at this point that they don’t really care supporting their communities. I’m sorry but from your post, it seems that you’re a bit biased against the Melee community.
Again, these are not comparable events.

There are different games where the hard focus isn't is "everyone's here, buy only this product", which is 100% how Nintendo does things. They don't try to promote old versions anymore.

There is no good reason to believe they'll constantly get good sales for both when they can't even figure out how to properly sell Melee without it dipping into Ultimate sales while it's worth their money.

You lost me as some kind of a good idea the second you said an organization should be okay with pirated content being promoted. Hell no. That's not okay. Absolutely inexcusable in every way. There is no justification for promoting of pirating. Nintendo already made it clear they will not tolerate it. That's not even a contest to how bad the thought is. They're 100% justified in stopping pirating in the first place. Let me clarify that I might've misread what you meant on pirating, though. Are you trying to justify it, or don't think it'll matter? I think it always matters because that's people not getting money for what they worked hard on. In every case. Pirating, get this, affects everyone. Even if employees are paid poorly, they lose more money with every pirating, as it was not money given to the company, which would still get them money. It actually does count.

What those people need to do is not promoted pirated content if they want to actually host streams for money again. Nintendo isn't fine with hosting stream(for money) about hacks either.

Mods of any program distributing without authorization is 100% illegal and grounds for lawsuits or more. Dolphin is an emulated GameCube, which is an actual hack alone of Nintendo's own program. The emulation itself is already dubiously legal(actually it isn't. Nintendo can easily take down any emulator they want, but they choose not to). They already lost that battle a long time ago and cannot legally win this one. They are distributing a modification of Nintendo's software too. Did you not realize that's what all emulators are? Nintendo doesn't go after them because they don't sell emulators. They do however go after roms, because they outright sell those. The closest is the "Classic" systems, and they don't have them up all the time due to being impossible to sell consistently, along with needing to license 3rd party games. It's not a market issue for them. Any modified rom(or rom in general) cuts down on their profits. Keep in mind even if a lot of people "properly" buy it, any tiny sale lost due to a rom being distributed does actually affect them. I won't pretend it's a legitimate issue even then, of course. They make enough money(whether or not the employees do is another issue that I can't say how well it's being handled).

There was no way Slippi stood a chance. The only thing Nintendo will at most allow is emulators as long as they don't clearly affect their business. So far, none do as long as it's not online, which actually can affect them. As they are not selling Melee anymore either, they also don't want any game to compete with their own game. Slippi actually makes it so Melee heavily competes with Ultimate, not just the slight bit back when people played it on their own systems. Both legally they can take it down, and now that they can see business-related problems, it was a clear thing to expect at this point.

For the record, I do think copyright law is outright ass and at best it should only matter if you make sales off a modded product(note that if it's a parody, and actually redone enough to be its own thing, it's treated as legal), but sadly that's not the case.

Melee, if remade, is such a massively competitive game, that it will absolutely affect Ultimate sales. Reality is there's enough purists that won't buy a game if it doesn't play exactly how they want it to. Hell, I'm even that way. I'm not going to pick up FFVIIr cause it's massively changed the battle system. Or was the case, as they did fix it so the classic way to play is plausible.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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So, for Geno's reveal trailer, you think they would go back to the Super Mario RPG sprites for his reveal before the switch to 3D or it'll be a 3D trailer all the way?
I would love those 2.5D models to be used again. Though I wonder if they'd reuse Mallow or have someone similar in that spot. They could also just show all the Mario, DK, and Wario characters too?
 

Kremling Kommander

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I know many people aren’t expecting much from Nintendo at TGA, but I feel like that the fact that Gamexplain still hasn’t made a prediction video yet for the topic makes the low possibility of Nintendo news even worse.
So, for Geno's reveal trailer, you think they would go back to the Super Mario RPG sprites for his reveal before the switch to 3D or it'll be a 3D trailer all the way?
I would be fine with either, but it would be a great fake out if they made it seem like Mario RPG was coming to Switch Online. Like, a normal battle is occurring in the gameplay shown, but just as Mario and co. win the battle, other characters Link and Samus show up and then the gameplay transitions into 3D.
 

Noipoi

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So, for Geno's reveal trailer, you think they would go back to the Super Mario RPG sprites for his reveal before the switch to 3D or it'll be a 3D trailer all the way?
If they started in the Mario RPG style, it’d give it away immediately. Then again, they may not care that much.

I think it’ll be fully 3D, personally. Maybe it’ll start with Smash gameplay and someone’ll launch Mario into the forest maze or something.
 

StarLight42

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Jesus, what a Nintendo move that would be.
For ****ing REAL. I remember being sent that and thinking “haha, cute fake”, then I saw it being posted around again, and I was like “you know, even though this looks faker than fake, i’m actually scared this is real because it seems exactly like what Nintendo would do”

i guess i’m just conditioned to the occasional totally tonedeaf Smash Bros pick. I feel like this would literally be Piranha Plant II. Hats off to the video editor and all, but christ I am so glad this isn’t real. Feels like every time they pick a Mario character in Ultimate, it’s a spiteful one rather than an actual request
 

LiveStudioAudience

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I'd love something like a scene with Mario, Bowser, Peach battling it out on the Peach's Castle stage with regular gameplay, only for it to turn into a cinematic where all three look up to see a strange shadow in the sky. Before they know it Exor has landed right on top of the castle and powers up with Neosquid readying an Aurora Flash... only for Geno to drop down (ala the faux battle in the opening of Mario RPG) absorb the energy and readying his Beam for attack.

Standard gameplay highlight reel ensues before cutting back to the cinematic where Geno nods to the other three in acknowledgement, only to pause when it starts raining. A quick pan over reveals a crying Mallow who sheepishly stops and waves to the gang.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It uses a stock render
Ah.

...So does that mean Piranha Plant uses a stalk render.

On another note, that was a hilarious fake trailer. Mostly for base game, but I'd love to see echoes with alternate movesets, etc. They're some of my favorite things, having fun unique ways to play. That and a mix of fan requests are really nice.
 

MattX20

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Ah.

...So does that mean Piranha Plant uses a stalk render.

On another note, that was a hilarious fake trailer. Mostly for base game, but I'd love to see echoes with alternate movesets, etc. They're some of my favorite things, having fun unique ways to play. That and a mix of fan requests are really nice.
Hey, that wasn't a bad pun
 
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