Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Again, these are not comparable events.

There are different games where the hard focus isn't is "everyone's here, buy only this product", which is 100% how Nintendo does things. They don't try to promote old versions anymore.

There is no good reason to believe they'll constantly get good sales for both when they can't even figure out how to properly sell Melee without it dipping into Ultimate sales while it's worth their money.

You lost me as some kind of a good idea the second you said an organization should be okay with pirated content being promoted. Hell no. That's not okay. Absolutely inexcusable in every way. There is no justification for promoting of pirating. Nintendo already made it clear they will not tolerate it. That's not even a contest to how bad the thought is. They're 100% justified in stopping pirating in the first place. Let me clarify that I might've misread what you meant on pirating, though. Are you trying to justify it, or don't think it'll matter? I think it always matters because that's people not getting money for what they worked hard on. In every case. Pirating, get this, affects everyone. Even if employees are paid poorly, they lose more money with every pirating, as it was not money given to the company, which would still get them money. It actually does count.

What those people need to do is not promoted pirated content if they want to actually host streams for money again. Nintendo isn't fine with hosting stream(for money) about hacks either.

Mods of any program distributing without authorization is 100% illegal and grounds for lawsuits or more. Dolphin is an emulated GameCube, which is an actual hack alone of Nintendo's own program. The emulation itself is already dubiously legal(actually it isn't. Nintendo can easily take down any emulator they want, but they choose not to). They already lost that battle a long time ago and cannot legally win this one. They are distributing a modification of Nintendo's software too. Did you not realize that's what all emulators are? Nintendo doesn't go after them because they don't sell emulators. They do however go after roms, because they outright sell those. The closest is the "Classic" systems, and they don't have them up all the time due to being impossible to sell consistently, along with needing to license 3rd party games. It's not a market issue for them. Any modified rom(or rom in general) cuts down on their profits. Keep in mind even if a lot of people "properly" buy it, any tiny sale lost due to a rom being distributed does actually affect them. I won't pretend it's a legitimate issue even then, of course. They make enough money(whether or not the employees do is another issue that I can't say how well it's being handled).

There was no way Slippi stood a chance. The only thing Nintendo will at most allow is emulators as long as they don't clearly affect their business. So far, none do as long as it's not online, which actually can affect them. As they are not selling Melee anymore either, they also don't want any game to compete with their own game. Slippi actually makes it so Melee heavily competes with Ultimate, not just the slight bit back when people played it on their own systems. Both legally they can take it down, and now that they can see business-related problems, it was a clear thing to expect at this point.

For the record, I do think copyright law is outright ass and at best it should only matter if you make sales off a modded product(note that if it's a parody, and actually redone enough to be its own thing, it's treated as legal), but sadly that's not the case.

Melee, if remade, is such a massively competitive game, that it will absolutely affect Ultimate sales. Reality is there's enough purists that won't buy a game if it doesn't play exactly how they want it to. Hell, I'm even that way. I'm not going to pick up FFVIIr cause it's massively changed the battle system. Or was the case, as they did fix it so the classic way to play is plausible.

... The ****? Did you even read my post right? When did I ever say the pirated content should be promoted? I said that it’s understandable that Nintendo took it down did I not? Unless, I worded it wrong? What I’m trying to say, that the organization could track down anybody or discover a player that has a pirated a copy of Melee. That’s why it shouldn’t even the problem for Nintendo to worry.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

... The ****? Did you even read my post right? When did I ever say the pirated content should be promoted? I said that it’s understandable that Nintendo took it down did I not? Unless, I worded it wrong? What I’m trying to say, that the organization could track down anybody or discover a player that has a pirated a copy of Melee. That’s why it shouldn’t even the problem for Nintendo to worry.

I did literally say "I might've misread it."

To note, I can hardly read it when you do one massively long paragraph. The words blend together. Please parse your words a bit more so I can understand it a bit better.

Sorry for the misreading.

That said, if they learn that anyone has pirated it, and since it promotes pirating, yeah, shut it down. Going after everyone? No, not feasible nor necessary. But if they're aware it happens, they're justifying in worrying it could affect their sales, yes. It's actually important for companies to be mindful of sales in general, as that's part of their job as businesses, to make money. If they think a risk is there, being cautious is inherently safer in their regard. Not to say Nintendo isn't dumb about things too, of course. This isn't actually one of those cases, but it doesn't help that their whole year is going bad, so.

 

[MattX20]

Just 3 pages to 3600. To think earlier this year even reaching 3000 was a lofty goal

 

[WhatdoItypehere]

TBH I've always wondered how Geno would've played in Melee if he would've been added. Maybe some kind of aggressive fast faller. The project M mod was alright, but idk. Him getting in Ultimate would be a nice little consolation prize for me though.

 

[MattX20]

TBH I've always wondered how Geno would've played in Melee if he would've been added. Maybe some kind of aggressive fast faller. The project M mod was alright, but idk. Him getting in Ultimate would be a nice little consolation prize for me though.

Oh god, I do not want to think of how Geno would've played in Melee. Knowing how that game was balanced, he would've been bad like poor Mewtwo was

 

[TheCJBrine]

If you actually watch the trailer, this is just the cat. It has nothing to do with Conker.

I wonder if it actually is Conker, though; the girl just says "animal" and isnt sure what it is, and the cat shows up afterward stomping its paw as a prelude to Meowster Chief. The toon "cat" also has Conker's cheeks, and there's more than just cats in the video (really just the real one and Meowster Chief if this is Conker).

It still means nothing, though, of course; this is just a cool dream-themed video, not a teaser or anything, so it's just a cool nod.

 

[Rohanx17]

Y'all are killing me. Feel free to hate melee all you want but to ignore all legal precedent and claim emulators are illegal and mod patches are (inherently) piracy is just being silly. There's a reason they only revoked streaming rights and didn't C&D slippi and/or dolphin and you don't need me to tell you it wasn't because they felt like being charitable.

Oh god, I do not want to think of how Geno would've played in Melee. Knowing how that game was balanced, he would've been bad like poor Mewtwo was

In a level of divergence to the timeline that can bring geno to melee I think sakurai could have gotten more than a year and a half to ship it out, in which case the many oversights to values, hitboxes, and G&W wouldn't exist, so my bet is pretty similar to what we got for pm.

actually now that I think about it that would also mean wario would have been in melee meaning his moveset was cemented before warioware ever existed, liking this timeline more already.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

TBH I've always wondered how Geno would've played in Melee if he would've been added. Maybe some kind of aggressive fast faller. The project M mod was alright, but idk. Him getting in Ultimate would be a nice little consolation prize for me though.

Probably would have been just another slow zoner archetype.

One good thing about being about Geno possibly releasing now instead of 20 years ago is that he has way more potential to be very unique. I doubt something like an aggressive mid-range zoner with timed hits would have been considered back in Melee's development.

 

[Aerospherology]

So, for Geno's reveal trailer, you think they would go back to the Super Mario RPG sprites for his reveal before the switch to 3D or it'll be a 3D trailer all the way?

I would think it's another trailer that ties into World of Light like Hero's. Maybe it would take place in space.
Ridley's not going to rip out his stuffing.

 

[Rohanx17]

Probably would have been just another slow zoner archetype.

One good thing about being about Geno possibly releasing now instead of 20 years ago is that he has way more potential to be very unique. I doubt something like an aggressive mid-range zoner with timed hits would have been considered back in Melee's development.

Maybe I'm in the minority on this but I really hope they don't go too overboard with the timed hits thing. It could be a fun gimmick for his specials but if you have to hit every A press twice that's just going to feel awful.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Maybe I'm in the minority on this but I really hope they don't go too overboard with the timed hits thing. It could be a fun gimmick for his specials but if you have to hit every A press twice that's just going to feel awful.

Yeah I'm hoping it's only specials and maybe smash attacks.

 

[Rohanx17]

Yeah I'm hoping it's only specials and maybe smash attacks.

Same, but for the record I don't think melee would have inherently hindered geno. Characters like DK, peach, zelda, ice climbers and yoshi were already breaking the rules so I doubt there was anything geno could do that was mechanically off limits.

 

[Deleted member]

Probably would have been just another slow zoner archetype.

One good thing about being about Geno possibly releasing now instead of 20 years ago is that he has way more potential to be very unique. I doubt something like an aggressive mid-range zoner with timed hits would have been considered back in Melee's development.

If there's any consolation to this agonizing decades long wait, it's this. Even as far as Brawl, fighters feel "safe". No one really stepped outside of the realm of what the previous game set as possible, and 64 and Melee were extremely conservative. Looking back on it, outside of poo brain decisions like tripping, Brawl's biggest claim to outlandish moveset was Sonic being faster than Captain Falcon and R.O.B. having a lingering projectile. The enter Smash 4 and Mega Man's jab, ftilt and nair are the same move and can link into one another seamlessly, Robin is Ness with ammunition (making him inherently worse gg Sakurai), Little Mac is not allowed to jump in a platform fighter, Shulk has the Smash equivalent of stance change and Ryu is here being an actual fighting game character but Bayonetta is even more like an actual fighting game character.

While the universe would have been different (society if Geno was in Melee meme when), I think Geno in Melee would have been a net loss. Even if you're not a big fan of the idea of timed hits being a part of his moveset, I think the level of creativity that Geno needed to stand out from the crowd was only fully realized as recently as Smash 4 if not Ultimate itself, and it would have sucked to see him come back to Ultimate virtually unchanged akin to Young Link and Dr. Mario for the sake of being true to the limiting confines of Melee rather than seeing him be something truly special.

The only hurdle is ****ing getting him in the game.

Maybe I'm in the minority on this but I really hope they don't go too overboard with the timed hits thing. It could be a fun gimmick for his specials but if you have to hit every A press twice that's just going to feel awful.

catch me hitting every A press as often as I need to.

 

[MexoKatonSB]

catch me hitting every A press as often as I need to.

nah, you gotta use half an A press

 

[MattX20]

I would think it's another trailer that ties into World of Light like Hero's. Maybe it would take place in space.
Ridley's not going to rip out his stuffing.

I could see Geno fighting Meta Ridley since Geno's main enemies are Smithy and the army of living weapons

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Us talking about what if Geno was added in Melee reminded me of this alternate dimension meme.

 

[MattX20]

Us talking about what if Geno was added in Melee reminded me of this alternate dimension meme.
View attachment 294523

Huh

 

[ForsakenM]

Y'all are killing me. Feel free to hate melee all you want but to ignore all legal precedent and claim emulators are illegal and mod patches are (inherently) piracy is just being silly. There's a reason they only revoked streaming rights and didn't C&D slippi and/or dolphin and you don't need me to tell you it wasn't because they felt like being charitable.


In a level of divergence to the timeline that can bring geno to melee I think sakurai could have gotten more than a year and a half to ship it out, in which case the many oversights to values, hitboxes, and G&W wouldn't exist, so my bet is pretty similar to what we got for pm.

actually now that I think about it that would also mean wario would have been in melee meaning his moveset was cemented before warioware ever existed, liking this timeline more already.

Everyone knows emulators aren't illegal.

ROMs that are not legitimately ripped from the disc itself with specific programs and just downloaded form the internet ARE illegal, and no organizer is going to check with every single tournament player and get verified proof that they have legal ROMs when they could just not and say they did. Thus, Nintendo is within their legal rights to pursue such things.

Once a tournament is of a certain level (high numbers and large pots) companies tend to take notice of these things. A good example of how to go about things is how Maximillian_dood did with UMvC3 for his big 'MAHVEL LIVES' tournament. As far as I recall he reached out to Capcom to get permission to have a tournament of the game and run it on PARSEC, and they worked with him to allow him to do so. From what I can tell, this Melee tournament not only didn't get permission and did the tournament anyway, but they also didn't provide proof that each competitor was using a legal rip of the game. Therefore, piracy could have easily taken place, and therefore Nintendo is well within their rights to shut er down.

 

[MexoKatonSB]

new papa video is up!

https://youtu.be/RfMHz7yVbUs

 

[Enigma735]

New PapaGenos video!

 

[Slender]

Hey all! Here's V5 of my Geno render, with much better lighting in an attempt to replicate Ultimate's.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Rohanx17]

Everyone knows emulators aren't illegal.

QUOTE="Creeparka Sisters, post: 24186164, member: 844"
Dolphin is an emulated GameCube, which is an actual hack alone of Nintendo's own program. The emulation itself is already dubiously legal(actually it isn't. Nintendo can easily take down any emulator they want, but they choose not to).

ROMs that are not legitimately ripped from the disc itself with specific programs and just downloaded form the internet ARE illegal, and no organizer is going to check with every single tournament player and get verified proof that they have legal ROMs when they could just not and say they did. Thus, Nintendo is within their legal rights to pursue such things.

Once a tournament is of a certain level (high numbers and large pots) companies tend to take notice of these things. A good example of how to go about things is how Maximillian_dood did with UMvC3 for his big 'MAHVEL LIVES' tournament. As far as I recall he reached out to Capcom to get permission to have a tournament of the game and run it on PARSEC, and they worked with him to allow him to do so. From what I can tell, this Melee tournament not only didn't get permission and did the tournament anyway, but they also didn't provide proof that each competitor was using a legal rip of the game. Therefore, piracy could have easily taken place, and therefore Nintendo is well within their rights to shut er down.

Nintendo is within their legal right to shut down the stream for any reason they please. Piracy has absolutely nothing to do with it besides give them something to morally grandstand on, which ultimately falls flat when you realize in their eyes anything short of playing melee on a gamecube both purchased from an approved retailer sealed for 59.99 and 199.99 respectively should be illegal. Even if the TO's actually bothered to get a valid checksum on every iso from each participant nintendo would still have shut them down because it was never about whether what they were doing was legal.

As you mentioned in your own example companies hold the exclusive streaming rights to their games and anyone looking to set up a tournament has to go through them if they want to stream no exceptions. The big house have had these as they've been working with nintendo for events for a good long while now, but when it came to light this event would be held online with the use of slippi nintendo stepped in and gave them an ultimatum, remove the use of slippi or lose your streaming rights. Naturally they weren't about to go physical in 2020 so they had to decline and as such lost their streaming rights. They could have absolutely still held the event offscreen but we both know that isn't sustainable for something of this size so it was called off. If Max had wanted to say, run a SFV tournament, and wanted to use their fanmade netcode patch I'm fairly confident the exact same scenario would have played out, legality be damned.

This isn't even the first time this has happened, PM more or less died because nintendo refused to sanction any events that were supporting it and was dropped by TO's en masse to keep melee and smash4 afloat. Hell in 2013 they tried to stop evo's charity tournament for no stated reason whatsoever once it was announced the melee crowd won the donation drive, and only agreed to negotiate terms at all after the internet collectively mobbed them for it.

TLDR no one is claiming or ever claimed nintendo couldn't do what they did, but to claim they're just trying to fight piracy when there was nothing inherently illegal about setup is silly. The means to validate iso's do exist so nintendo and the TO's could have worked to make a solution to keep things on the up and up if that was truly their concern, but they didn't and were never going to because they do not recognize the right to backups and emulation in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

New PapaGenos video!

Feels like we were just discussing this topic this morning...

 

[TheCJBrine]

QUOTE="Creeparka Sisters, post: 24186164, member: 844"
Dolphin is an emulated GameCube, which is an actual hack alone of Nintendo's own program. The emulation itself is already dubiously legal(actually it isn't. Nintendo can easily take down any emulator they want, but they choose not to).

Actually that isn’t correct; I believe most emulators, including Dolphin, use their own code, otherwise they wouldn’t be so buggy/wouldn’t have faults for some games that the games don’t have on original hardware. So, it’s not a hack, just an “impersonator” of sorts.


Also Nintendo lost a court case where they went against emulation, but they can take down ROM sites if they wish.

 

[Deleted member]

Y'all are killing me. Feel free to hate melee all you want but to ignore all legal precedent and claim emulators are illegal and mod patches are (inherently) piracy is just being silly. There's a reason they only revoked streaming rights and didn't C&D slippi and/or dolphin and you don't need me to tell you it wasn't because they felt like being charitable.


In a level of divergence to the timeline that can bring geno to melee I think sakurai could have gotten more than a year and a half to ship it out, in which case the many oversights to values, hitboxes, and G&W wouldn't exist, so my bet is pretty similar to what we got for pm.

actually now that I think about it that would also mean wario would have been in melee meaning his moveset was cemented before warioware ever existed, liking this timeline more already.

Pretty much. Even if Nintendo has a reason against slippi, I don’t get why they have to shut down the whole tournament.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty much. Even if Nintendo has a reason against slippi, I don’t see why they have to shut down the whole tournament.

Because they told The Big House to not run Melee and The Big House refused, so Nintendo told them they weren't about to make ad revenue and donorbucks on Twitch.

I don't get why this is hard to understand. Reminder that Nintendo sponsored this event.

 

[Deleted member]

Because they told The Big House to not run Melee and The Big House refused, so Nintendo told them they weren't about to make ad revenue and donorbucks on Twitch.

I don't get why this is hard to understand. Reminder that Nintendo sponsored this event.

Source?

 

[Rohanx17]

Actually that isn’t correct; I believe most emulators, including Dolphin, use their own code, otherwise they wouldn’t be so buggy/wouldn’t have faults for some games that the games wouldn’t have on original hardware. So, it’s not a hack, just an “impersonator” of sorts.


Also Nintendo lost a court case where they went against emulation, but they can take down ROM sites if they wish.

I'm fully aware of all of this(those were someone elses words after all), though I thought it was Sony v Bleem! that set the legal precedent for emulation in the west,I know Nintendo v Galoob set the precedent for game modding but I don't think that's what you meant. What example were you thinking of?

Pretty much. Even if Nintendo has a reason against slippi, I don’t see why they have to shut down the whole tournament.

I mean to their credit if your going to make a threat you need to be able to make good on it. IIR this whole argument started because of that rather nasty splatoon incident, the effects of which makes me think nintendo is going to stay their course no matter the consequence(or until they get saddled with another failing console).

 

[Deleted member]

Source?

Here you go. I thought Nintendo tweeted this, but this is the first source I could find.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually that isn’t correct; I believe most emulators, including Dolphin, use their own code, otherwise they wouldn’t be so buggy/wouldn’t have faults for some games that the games don’t have on original hardware. So, it’s not a hack, just an “impersonator” of sorts.


Also Nintendo lost a court case where they went against emulation, but they can take down ROM sites if they wish.

Ah didn’t know that.

Typing on mobile is hard, so I won’t say much. My bad.

I wasn't aware your general emulator is an actual self-made program that is designed to play and well, emulate a console. That's entirely different from what I thought, which was ripping the program. I never made a program myself, so. Just wanted to note that. Obviously if somebody is taking a program and modifying it, that's an entirely different situation from many emulators. It's why romhacks in general have issues, if you distribute it anyway. Keeping it to yourself is a-okay. I dun think it matters if you outright Let's Play it/show it off either, but that's probably a case where the gray areas come in. I have let's played a hack before, so...

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm fully aware of all of this(those were someone elses words after all), though I thought it was Sony v Bleem! that set the legal precedent for emulation in the west,I know Nintendo v Galoob set the precedent for game modding but I don't think that's what you meant. What example were you thinking of?

Tbh I just saw others say it on Twitter and didn’t think to actually check. Sometimes I’m dumb, despite trying to not have misinfo.

From what I could find, it was in fact the case with Sony, with Nintendo only considering pursuing legal action against Epsilon sometime before(?).

Sorry for the mistake.

Also thank you for mentioning the modding case, because I wasn’t aware of it. Now I can share it whenever someone says Slippi is illegal :>

 

[Deleted member]

Twitter

Living in this timeline would certainly better image for Nintendo not to mention Etika.

 

[super88cloud]

Twitter

Living in this timeline would certainly better image for Nintendo not to mention Etika.

that´s one world where companies would not be run for profit, basically capitalism wouldn´t exist and copyright would have long been limited to twenty years for a work instead of the life plus 70 years or the trademark crazyness, thank the house of mouse for that. ( this is one of the reasons why I would resent any disney rep or sora)
Basically, crazy fever dreams. No corp or major company acts like that.
few companies act like those tweets, only thing that comes to mind is Id Software in the 90s.
Nintendo is like Disney, even in the ****ed up capitalist ways.
....
so, that was some heavy handed stuff....
and now, for something completely different...
So, most people seem dead set on believing there´s a chance for a december reveal after the TGA´s.
Not happening.

 

[MattX20]

New PapaGenos video!

The planned release date is likely a placeholder

 

[yungmornindrive]

that´s one world where companies would not be run for profit, basically capitalism wouldn´t exist and copyright would have long been limited to twenty years for a work instead of the life plus 70 years or the trademark crazyness, thank the house of mouse for that. ( this is one of the reasons why I would resent any disney rep or sora)
Basically, crazy fever dreams. No corp or major company acts like that.
few companies act like those tweets, only thing that comes to mind is Id Software in the 90s.
Nintendo is like Disney, even in the ****ed up capitalist ways.
....
so, that was some heavy handed stuff....
and now, for something completely different...
So, most people seem dead set on believing there´s a chance for a december reveal after the TGA´s.
Not happening.

Without capitalism, we don’t even have Nintendo or Smash the way we do. So let’s pump the brakes on that (as I’ll pump the brakes on politics and go back to hoping Geno comes soon, though with low expectations).

 

[MattX20]

I'm still not giving up on the idea of a December reveal/release, even with that 2021 placeholder date. All the evidence that Fatman and others have pointed out over the past few months have all but effectively implied even with the virus, FP8 would've been likely completed and ready to go as of last month.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think its entirely likely that Fighter 8 could very well be ready to go right now, but it is being held off until selectively revealed, possibly next month. In a holiday season where Nintendo is pushing deals and posting reminders of their current games, there may be a feeling that a Smash announcement has more room to effectively breathe in January and maybe even kick off a gradual roll out of Nintendo news in 2021.

Stuff like Smash reveals are based on what's been finished obviously, but there is a strategic marketing element to its timing as well, and based on what I've seen a December showcase may just not fit in with that plan.

 

[Deleted member]

I think its entirely likely that Fighter 8 could very well be ready to go right now, but it is being held off until selectively revealed, possibly next month. In a holiday season where Nintendo is pushing deals and posting reminders of their current games, there may be a feeling that a Smash announcement has more room to effectively breathe in January and maybe even kick off a gradual roll out of Nintendo news in 2021.

Stuff like Smash reveals are based on what's been finished obviously, but there is a strategic marketing element to its timing as well, and based on what I've seen a December showcase may just not fit in with that plan.

Kinda thing I've been saying for a long time. Nintendo has some magic moment they think they can hit where hype is at its maximum after a wait that's long and almost unbearable but not quite, but the situation is like this:

They have been consistent in missing reality since Terry's release, dragging this out pointlessly for Byleth, Min Min and Steve. After the "the next fighter is from ARMS!" thing, I thought maybe they were somewhat self aware and wanted to draw out expectation to make less hype reveals seem more hype than they are - after all, it worked for Byleth! (no it didn't), but Steve was obviously planned to be some kind of universally loved addition and they held off on what was no doubt an E3 reveal for Minecon, and I'll say again that I think this was Microsoft dragging them by the balls to another event where it wouldn't be all about Nintendo. This is why you don't negotiate with the competition.

It's foolish to expect a reveal at this point and even more foolish to think that there's any hope at all that fighter 8 will be playable before the year's up, but the page that was in Papa's video doesn't even say "expected release: 2021" for me, it says "this challenger pack is planned to be released by 31/12/2021". It is the most placeholder date imaginable and shouldn't be taken as significant, unless you want to take the idea that Nintendo holds out until the last possible second to its logical extreme and say that they intend to release the final four all together on December 30 2020 at 11:59 PM JST.

 

[CannonStreak]

Kinda thing I've been saying for a long time. Nintendo has some magic moment they think they can hit where hype is at its maximum after a wait that's long and almost unbearable but not quite, but the situation is like this:

View attachment 294556

They have been consistent in missing reality since Terry's release, dragging this out pointlessly for Byleth, Min Min and Steve. After the "the next fighter is from ARMS!" thing, I thought maybe they were somewhat self aware and wanted to draw out expectation to make less hype reveals seem more hype than they are - after all, it worked for Byleth! (no it didn't), but Steve was obviously planned to be some kind of universally loved addition and they held off on what was no doubt an E3 reveal for Minecon, and I'll say again that I think this was Microsoft dragging them by the balls to another event where it wouldn't be all about Nintendo. This is why you don't negotiate with the competition.

It's foolish to expect a reveal at this point and even more foolish to think that there's any hope at all that fighter 8 will be playable before the year's up, but the page that was in Papa's video doesn't even say "expected release: 2021" for me, it says "this challenger pack is planned to be released by 31/12/2021". It is the most placeholder date imaginable and shouldn't be taken as significant, unless you want to take the idea that Nintendo holds out until the last possible second to its logical extreme and say that they intend to release the final four all together on December 30 2020 at 11:59 PM JST.

Based on the charts you showed, I can say Nintendo does need to change its strategies on releasing news on Smash DLC and maybe other things. They don't seem to even realize that they are killing the hype for Smash more than they are helping it, COVID-19 or not.

 

[Firox]

Based on the charts you showed, I can say Nintendo does need to change its strategies on releasing news on Smash DLC and maybe other things. They don't seem to even realize that they are killing the hype for Smash more than they are helping it, COVID-19 or not.

Exactly. I have to say, Serenade's charts were spot on with regards to how massive lapses in time absolutely kill hype. The fact that even a mainstream gaming nuke like Steve barely elicited a response from the fans says a lot. By the time fighter 11 is revealed, the only people left to even care will be the hardcore smash fanbase and even then, the hype will probably only last a day or two.