Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[CannonStreak]

Exactly. I have to say, Serenade's charts were spot on with regards to how massive lapses in time absolutely kill hype. The fact that even a mainstream gaming nuke like Steve barely elicited a response from the fans says a lot. By the time fighter 11 is revealed, the only people left to even care will be the hardcore smash fanbase and even then, the hype will probably only last a day or two.

Of course. Nintendo could so use a change in their marketing strategy and how they do things, you know what I mean?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Something significant that I think ties into this is the (possible) end to the traditional seasonal based general directs.

When Nintendo was still doing the March/June/September presentations there was a general expectation of some significance (though how often it lived up that is a matter of opinion). From March 2018 to March 2020, every single general direct (and mini-direct) had some sort of Smash news in it. It was illustrative of how much the cycle of the game was tied into the marketing and made presentations like them as generally reliable signs of when news on DLC was coming.

However since they've moved towards general announcements via Twitter, and monthly showcases for third parties, a lot of the is out the window. Nintendo is now working by their own preferred schedule more than ever, and the notion of certain news coming at generally specific time because that's the pattern is very much not the case. That's relevant to Smash in the sense that the rest of the DLC has only the condition of not taking too unbearably long between reveals (with 90-100 days feeling entirely possible) and being finished by this time next year.

That's it. There's no E3 they have to go big for or a particular seasonal time it would be best to get the announcements out by. Put out something roughly every three months over the next year and rake in the money with casual fans who can be reminded of Smash just when its starting to lose their attention again. From a logistical standpoint they can easily reveal fighters just liven up relatively quiet time in the market if they wish to or tie it in to whatever deal/bundle they cook up for 2021. To Nintendo the emphasis might be with product/marketing synergy more so than momentous hype.

 

[ForsakenM]

So it would seem Ghost of Tsushima beat out TLOU2 in the Player's Choice voting. Hopefully that will be enough and all the lobbying from companies don't block the win so we can get some justice in the year 2020. Unfortunately FF7R won't win but you can't have everything good in life.

So, who is expecting at least ONE Nintendo announcement at the VGAs?

 

[Deleted member]

Exactly. I have to say, Serenade's charts were spot on with regards to how massive lapses in time absolutely kill hype. The fact that even a mainstream gaming nuke like Steve barely elicited a response from the fans says a lot. By the time fighter 11 is revealed, the only people left to even care will be the hardcore smash fanbase and even then, the hype will probably only last a day or two.

To be fair, Steve was the straw that broke Twitter's back, so if that's not hype, I don't know what is... And if we could have been graced with a Nintendo World Store reaction, I think the house would have come down. It's hard to know if they really think there's a "magic moment" (which doesn't really exist even in the best case scenario), or if they just don't give a ****. Probably the latter, honestly, or more accurately, Smash is a way to carry hype from people like me, who are fed up with the state of video games and only care about Smash or some mainline Nintendo information. They might as well make it last as long as they can, because once Smash is done (or once Geno is in), I'll likely stop watching Directs or following announcements very closely.

Something significant that I think ties into this is the (possible) end to the traditional seasonal based general directs.

When Nintendo was still doing the March/June/September presentations there was a general expectation of some significance (though how often it lived up that is a matter of opinion). From March 2018 to March 2020, every single general direct (and mini-direct) had some sort of Smash news in it. It was illustrative of how much the cycle of the game was tied into the marketing and made presentations like them as generally reliable signs of when news on DLC was coming.

However since they've moved towards general announcements via Twitter, and monthly showcases for third parties, a lot of the is out the window. Nintendo is now working by their own preferred schedule more than ever, and the notion of certain news coming at generally specific time because that's the pattern is very much not the case. That's relevant to Smash in the sense that the rest of the DLC has only the condition of not taking too unbearably long between reveals (with 90-100 days feeling entirely possible) and being finished by this time next year.

That's it. There's no E3 they have to go big for or a particular seasonal time it would be best to get the announcements out by. Put out something roughly every three months over the next year and rake in the money with casual fans who can be reminded of Smash just when its starting to lose their attention again. From a logistical standpoint they can easily reveal fighters just liven up relatively quiet time in the market if they wish to; or tie it in to whatever deal/bundle they cook up for 2021.

It's funny that you say that, since it feels like a lot of people have forgotten that Furukawa implied they might drop directs outright for something that works better. Folks chalk it up to COVID-19, but I think we might be looking at a world without general directs, and the transition just happened to be disguised by a pandemic. Like with Animal Crossing, Nintendo lucked out once again.

 

[Snoop_nogg]

Exactly. I have to say, Serenade's charts were spot on with regards to how massive lapses in time absolutely kill hype. The fact that even a mainstream gaming nuke like Steve barely elicited a response from the fans says a lot. By the time fighter 11 is revealed, the only people left to even care will be the hardcore smash fanbase and even then, the hype will probably only last a day or two.

I honestly don't think they could ever kill the hype for this game. Despite a pretty substantial gap between character announcements, we seem to go through this cycle of hype-excitement-announcement-calm-hype-repeat. Before Steve's announcement, we were all in a tizzy waiting for the stream and singing sea shanties. Then Steve broke Twitter and the hype was outstanding. It'll cycle again with each fighter.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

So it would seem Ghost of Tsushima beat out TLOU2 in the Player's Choice voting. Hopefully that will be enough and all the lobbying from companies don't block the win so we can get some justice in the year 2020. Unfortunately FF7R won't win but you can't have everything good in life.

So, who is expecting at least ONE Nintendo announcement at the VGAs?

In terms of Smash Bros, I’ve thrown any announcement out the window and do not expect it at all.
Anything else though? I could very well see BotW 2 finally getting a full-blown trailer and gameplay showcase, with a 2021 release window. It’s been a year and half, I think it’s feasible to show SOMETHING of it.
And although it’s more of a hope than prediction, Metroid could get some announcement here, most likely Metroid 5 though. Given how far the rumors have gone back and the ones involving it became true, it’s probably done by now and just waiting to be shown.
That’s all I can think of. I would say Bayo 3, but it could be in development hell for all we know despite being 3 years since it’s announcement.

 

[yungmornindrive]

Based on the charts you showed, I can say Nintendo does need to change its strategies on releasing news on Smash DLC and maybe other things. They don't seem to even realize that they are killing the hype for Smash more than they are helping it, COVID-19 or not.

I think their plan, as Serenade pointed out with Steve, was majorly thwarted by COVID. Steve would have been a summer release, with possibly one more. COVID shouldn’t be as discarded as a reason for the issues as many people here are doing.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This is a shot in the dark prediction, but I think the pattern for at least 2021 could be a variation of what we saw in the latter half of 2020. Have 6-8 week periods where news is rolled out roughly once a week:

-Smash DLC
-Partner Showcase
-First Party Reveals via Twitter
-Misc. Presentation (Indie Direct, Pokémon Presents
-Single Game Direct

Then things go relatively quiet for a bit before the cycle starts up again. From Nintendo's perspective they may seen that as allowing individual announcements/reveals to dominate the week, still fulfills obligations with third parties to show off their games, and allows them to adjust the news schedules if they wish:

"Is some element of a game reveal not quite done? No biggie we'll move that to next week and do the DLC announcement for a title this week."

It may lack the same type of megahype as a big general direct, but again I think the emphasis is one marketing opportunities rather than standard attempts to excite the fanbase.

 

[Firox]

See, that's the thing though. Nintendo seems to be shying away from things like general Directs and E3, but ironically those exact things were my greatest source of hype. These casual twitter drops and scant, 10-minute mini's are trash and give all the hype of a passing text. It's like pulling up my phone and just seeing:

"Oh, hey, Mario 35th anniversary or something. Woot."

"New Paper Mario, boys and girls. You like origami? Come and get it."

"BIG ANNOUNCEMENT INBOUND! Spoiler alert: It's more Monster Hunter."

It's really not a hard formula to build hype. Anticipation is part of it, for sure, but you need to dangle the carrot and then simply deliver at the appointed time.

Example:
(In November) "Hey guys! Big Direct coming in December!"
(In December) "Here's the direct!" (shows 5 or 6 new games, ends with a Smash reveal)
Everybody wets themselves with joy, rinse, repeat. Not sure why Nintendo struggles with this.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, Steve is a big deal, considering how Minecraft is, but I wanna know: will a character with that amount of hype ever happen again? I am sure it will for some cases, but they won't necessarily be Steve in terms of hype. What I am saying is that keeping up the hype for Smash characters that are DLC while spreading them out far apart in terms of reveals won't last forever. I mean, many of us love Smash, and we do have excitement and anticipation for the next character, but that only does so much. Correct me if I am wrong, but spreading reveals for DLC characters for Smash over long periods of time is bound to kill the hype at some point if it has not done so already, will it?

 

[Kremling Kommander]

Well, Steve is a big deal, considering how Minecraft is, but I wanna know: will a character with that amount of hype ever happen again? I am sure it will for some cases, but they won't necessarily be Steve in terms of hype. What I am saying is that keeping up the hype for Smash characters that are DLC while spreading them out far apart in terms of reveals won't last forever. I mean, many of us love Smash, and we do have excitement and anticipation for the next character, but that only does so much. Correct me if I am wrong, but spreading reveals for DLC characters for Smash over long periods of time is bound to kill the hype at some point if it has not done so already, will it?

Yeah, I feel like the waits between Hero and Banjo, Banjo and Terry were done well since the hype was still good and enough time was given.
To be honest, the wait was pretty agonizing from Min Min and Steve, but that was largely due to how complicated Steve was to make. Unless another fighter is going to be on the scale that Steve was, I don’t think the waits should be long now.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think their plan, as Serenade pointed out with Steve, was majorly thwarted by COVID. Steve would have been a summer release, with possibly one more. COVID shouldn’t be as discarded as a reason for the issues as many people here are doing.

I don't believe I was ruling out COVID-19, and I do think they have done this kind of thing of spreading out reveals over time which can kill the hype before. Remember the gap between Ryu and Cloud for Smash 4? I am not saying that killed the hype for DLC of this game (Smash 4, that is), but something like that can.

Yeah, I feel like the waits between Hero and Banjo, Banjo and Terry were done well since the hype was still good and enough time was given.
To be honest, the wait was pretty agonizing from Min Min and Steve, but that was largely due to how complicated Steve was to make. Unless another fighter is going to be on the scale that Steve was, I don’t think the waits should be long now.

I'd have to agree. Still, with how there could be another reveal this month, it probably won't be that long. If not this month, January is not that long after Steve was revealed a few months ago, right?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

See, that's the thing though. Nintendo seems to be shying away from things like general Directs and E3, but ironically those exact things were my greatest source of hype. These casual twitter drops and scant, 10-minute mini's are trash and give all the hype of a passing text. It's like pulling up my phone and just seeing:

"Oh, hey, Mario 35th anniversary or something. Woot."

"New Paper Mario, boys and girls. You like origami? Come and get it."

"BIG ANNOUNCEMENT INBOUND! Spoiler alert: It's more Monster Hunter."

It's really not a hard formula to build hype. Anticipation is part of it, for sure, but you need to dangle the carrot and then simply deliver at the appointed time.

Example:
(In November) "Hey guys! Big Direct coming in December!"
(In December) "Here's the direct!" (shows 5 or 6 new games, ends with a Smash reveal)
Everybody wets themselves with joy, rinse, repeat. Not sure why Nintendo struggles with this.

I agree with a lot of this, but I always remember that Nintendo is often aiming for the broader and more casual audience. The conclusion might be that they may not be as willing to immediately watch or remember a full Direct, but a quick video on Twitter/Facebook/YouTube that shows off the new Mario game is much more easily digestible to them. I could easily see a marketing team within Nintendo arguing that they can do a big video one time that will be trending with a few things once, but that effectively getting people's attention once a week for two straight months is more advantageous.

Again this is all speculation, however Nintendo has shown that their thinking can very much differ from fans when it comes to news; the early backlash against Partner Showcases (due to not revealing the major first party stuff first and thus angering the fanbase what wanted something significant) is indicative of that.

 

[Firox]

I agree with a lot of this, but I always remember that Nintendo is often aiming for the broader and more casual audience. The conclusion might be that they may not be as willing to immediately watch or remember a full Direct, but a quick video on Twitter/Facebook/YouTube that shows off the new Mario game is much more easily digestible to them. I could easily see a marketing team within Nintendo arguing that they can do a big video one time that will be trending with a few things once, but that effectively getting people's attention once a week for two straight months is more advantageous.

You have some pretty sound logic here. I have to admit, in a very general sense, twitter drops are more practical than a video people would have to go out of their way to watch. Also, social media plugs actually CAN show up on your phone notifications, unlike a Direct video, so more people would be able to casually see them. Not exactly my favorite medium, but I can see where Nintendo could argue its merits.

 

[yungmornindrive]

I don't believe I was ruling out COVID-19, and I do think they have done this kind of thing of spreading out reveals over time which can kill the hype before. Remember the gap between Ryu and Cloud for Smash 4? I am not saying that killed the hype for DLC of this game, but it can.



I'd have to agree. Still, with how there could be another reveal this month, it probably won't be that long. If not this month, January is not that long after Steve was revealed a few months ago, right?

Fair. I just want to be, as someone who works in media relations/marketing/PR/media, a voice of reason when it comes to business vs fandom. A lot of people can’t take off their blue-star colored goggles to see reality.

I’m going to presume that a strong majority of people in this thread or entire website have already purchased the entire fighters pass. Guys at Nintendo aren’t selling to us. They’re selling to people who haven’t bought it, which means there is a strategy to get those folks into the pass or game or Switch altogether (which is why I’m still not writing off a Doom reveal close to release...but that’s nothing more than a feeling mixed with desire because of connection to Geno).

And especially when it’s a 3rd party character, EVERYthing is negotiated, including release times. So it’s not all Nintendo here, more than likely. If Geno is in, Square wants it revealed a particular time and way. Same goes for the others.

 

[Firox]

I’m going to presume that a strong majority of people in this thread or entire website have already purchased the entire fighters pass. Guys at Nintendo aren’t selling to us. They’re selling to people who haven’t bought it, which means there is a strategy to get those folks into the pass or game or Switch altogether

While this makes perfect sense from a business/marketing standpoint, the corporate logic here is pretty disturbing. Basically, it would be saying that:

-Hardcore Smash fans have already bought the pass
-We need to get casuals involved that aren't already
-What characters would casuals like to see?
-Make characters that draw more casuals

See where I'm going with this? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying for certain that this means we can't get another Banjo-Kazooie scenario, but it logically argues that the hardcore Smash fanbase is basically irrelevant in the eyes of the business execs. It actually explains why only 1/7 DLC so far is blatantly a fan pick. It's because corporate Nintendo isn't selling to us. They're selling to EVERYONE ELSE. Not exactly a good omen for anyone holding out for anything along the lines of the Smash ballot (unless it happens to fairly mainstream).

 

[MattX20]

Fair. I just want to be, as someone who works in media relations/marketing/PR/media, a voice of reason when it comes to business vs fandom. A lot of people can’t take off their blue-star colored goggles to see reality.

I’m going to presume that a strong majority of people in this thread or entire website have already purchased the entire fighters pass. Guys at Nintendo aren’t selling to us. They’re selling to people who haven’t bought it, which means there is a strategy to get those folks into the pass or game or Switch altogether (which is why I’m still not writing off a Doom reveal close to release...but that’s nothing more than a feeling mixed with desire because of connection to Geno).

And especially when it’s a 3rd party character, EVERYthing is negotiated, including release times. So it’s not all Nintendo here, more than likely. If Geno is in, Square wants it revealed a particular time and way. Same goes for the others.

I've held off on buying the second Fighter Pass as I'm still waiting for a character that really grabs me.

 

[MrJudd]

I think the biggest issue with Smash hype being "dead" is that Steve was the first one in the last 12 months to actually make people happy (I know some people aren't, but hang on with my thought please): 2020 started with one of the most divisive picks (to not say negative) and followed almost 5 months after by another first-party when 2019 was all 3rd parties that were exciting in General (Joker, Hero, Banjo and Terry). Steve came almost 4 months after that and hasn't really done favors in the 2nd year of Ultimate's DLC cycle having only 3 characters in the course of an entire year.

 

[7NATOR]

While this makes perfect sense from a business/marketing standpoint, the corporate logic here is pretty disturbing. Basically, it would be saying that:

-Hardcore Smash fans have already bought the pass
-We need to get casuals involved that aren't already
-What characters would casuals like to see?
-Make characters that draw more casuals

See where I'm going with this? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying for certain that this means we can't get another Banjo-Kazooie scenario, but it logically argues that the hardcore Smash fanbase is basically irrelevant in the eyes of the business execs. It actually explains why only 1/7 DLC so far is blatantly a fan pick. It's because corporate Nintendo isn't selling to us. They're selling to EVERYONE ELSE. Not exactly a good omen for anyone holding out for anything along the lines of the Smash ballot (unless it happens to fairly mainstream).

I Mean to be fair, There might still be Hardcore Smash fans that haven't bought the whole Fighter Pass. The people that would buy the Whole Fighter pass are

-Competitive Players (And not all of them I would say)
-People that need to have all the characters

So I Think Nintendo might still need to care about the Hardcore Picks

Plus even then, Hardcore Fan picks, even if they don't Attract more of the Casuals, might have other benefits to them. Banjo has the benefit of Making the Microsoft relation closer for example.

Still though, I Imagine the more Casual audience are more of their focus, because they are larger and more Picky I would say. There are characters that stray both lines. I could argue that Steve is kind of this, though much more leaning on the Casual side

 

[Deleted member]

While this makes perfect sense from a business/marketing standpoint, the corporate logic here is pretty disturbing. Basically, it would be saying that:

-Hardcore Smash fans have already bought the pass
-We need to get casuals involved that aren't already
-What characters would casuals like to see?
-Make characters that draw more casuals

See where I'm going with this? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying for certain that this means we can't get another Banjo-Kazooie scenario, but it logically argues that the hardcore Smash fanbase is basically irrelevant in the eyes of the business execs. It actually explains why only 1/7 DLC so far is blatantly a fan pick. It's because corporate Nintendo isn't selling to us. They're selling to EVERYONE ELSE. Not exactly a good omen for anyone holding out for anything along the lines of the Smash ballot (unless it happens to fairly mainstream).

I don't know why there would be any question that the hardcore fanbase is irrelevant to the suits. We're going to buy the **** regardless so they don't have to appeal to us, the days where they feel they have to appeal to us went away in 2006 when they found out that a shiftless demographic of casuals will consume a product in the moment and have zero expectations of longterm support for the product after it has sated their momentary desire for entertainment that is en vogue. Us hardcore Smash guys, the ones that go to and run tournaments, will be just fine without them as long as what they give us is of decent quality, and if it isn't, it still sold gangbusters and we'll just go back to what was good.

Back in 2006 this wouldn't have been a sustainable model as the hardcore fanbase would have melted away and the casual fanbase would find something else to casually enjoy, but now I think it's more sustainable than ever as the market shifts even further into an instant gratification mindset with microtransactions, and in fact, it is likely more profitable than ever. We're honestly in the last hurrah of console gaming and regular installations of franchises and standing on the precipice of games as a service so it's fun to wish that in these final days they'd give us old farts something to smile about, but the truth is that we're going to be dragged kicking and screaming into the apocalypse or else we can say no and go back and play the SNES for the rest of our days. I know which one I'm going to do.

I bought the fighters pass out of obligation as soon as they revealed Min Min. This accomplished two goals for me:

• I do not buy the pass without knowing a fighter to hopefully send some kind of message to Nintendo
• I have to have all the fighters because I use my console for tournament play.

Of course, since we haven't been able to have a tournament for the obvious reason, I feel ****ing robbed because the way things are going, I paid for characters that are going to be so objectionable I'm going to drop Ultimate over it, maybe before we even get to hold tournaments again.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

To be upfront, I haven't bought the second fighter's pass either. The first one was a mixed bag overall, and while I've enjoyed playing as Min Min and Steve at a friend's house, I'm choosing to vote with my wallet and either getting individual characters or at the very least not getting the pass until there's a character that really makes the whole package seem worth it.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

To be upfront, I haven't bought the second fighter's pass either. The first one was a mixed bag overall, and while I've enjoyed playing as Min Min and Steve at a friend's house, I'm choosing to vote with my wallet and either getting individual characters or at the very least not getting the pass until there's a character that really makes the whole package seem worth it.

See, I wish I did this. I purposely held off on buying FP2 because I’m not interested in Min Min or Steve, but I’ve been sitting on my couch too much during Covid, got bored, and bought it just to have something new to check out.

but I totally wanted to vote with my wallet too...(only buy the characters that I wanted/believe deserved to be in Smash)

 

[MattX20]

Plus, you also have to consider that while Steve is the biggest name they have for this pass, he's not going to appeal to everyone. You can make a valid argument that a character like Crash Bandicoot would be the kind of big deal pick that would be excellent incentive to pick up the pass as a whole.

 

[yungmornindrive]

While this makes perfect sense from a business/marketing standpoint, the corporate logic here is pretty disturbing. Basically, it would be saying that:

-Hardcore Smash fans have already bought the pass
-We need to get casuals involved that aren't already
-What characters would casuals like to see?
-Make characters that draw more casuals

See where I'm going with this? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying for certain that this means we can't get another Banjo-Kazooie scenario, but it logically argues that the hardcore Smash fanbase is basically irrelevant in the eyes of the business execs. It actually explains why only 1/7 DLC so far is blatantly a fan pick. It's because corporate Nintendo isn't selling to us. They're selling to EVERYONE ELSE. Not exactly a good omen for anyone holding out for anything along the lines of the Smash ballot (unless it happens to fairly mainstream).

Nintendo knows this, trust me. If they’re only caring about casuals, characters like Banjo and Terry don’t get into the game.

But there is a balance on DLC, and it’s strategically DLC. Banjo in base game wouldn’t have had the same financial impact as Banjo in DLC. Same with Geno. That’s the billion dollar formula, and it’s an inexact science. But it’s definitely planned, and they likely have it planned to the week from here until December 2021.

 

[Deleted member]

See, I wish I did this. I purposely held off on buying FP2 because I’m not interested in Min Min or Steve, but I’ve been sitting on my couch too much during Covid, got bored, and bought it just to have something new to check out.

but I totally wanted to vote with my wallet too...(only buy the characters that I wanted/believe deserved to be in Smash)

I don't blame anyone for not buying something but despite the fact that I do it too, I don't think "voting with one's wallet" is a viable strategy. If this were 1987 and Nintendo was considering 50,000 games sold a massive return on investment, then yeah, or even back in the late 90s when a game managing to become a "million seller" was cause for celebration, I'd say voting with your wallet is a great idea... But we're dealing with a DLC for a game that topped Amazon's charts on launch day, for a console that you probably still can't reliably find at your local Best Buy. If you feel like you'd have fun with something and you don't buy it because of some nebulous concept like "character I want", you're only robbing yourself. That's why my baseline was just "show me a character in this blind bag", not because I had intention of not buying it, just that I think you should show something from what you're selling when you start selling it.

And for what it's worth, Min Min or some ARMS character definitely deserved a spot in Smash. It might be a failure but ARMS is a Nintendo IP and should have gotten representation in Nintendo's flagship esports title before ****ing Persona. This is what makes the exclusion of stuff like Golden Sun sting so much to me and I'm sure it's the same feeling for the folks who want some Nintendo Wars or Custom Robo representation.

 

[Firox]

I'll confess, I was in the same boat as Serenade. I bought FP2 after Min Min because

A) I refused to buy the pass until I knew at least one of its characters as a subtle message to Nintendo that their "mystery box" style of advertising is crap
B) As a tournament player, I was pretty much obligated to have all available characters

That said, I'm not impressed with the pass so far and I offer my most sincere kudos to those of you that have stayed strong and abstained from the pass thus far. I encourage you to hold off until (or if) Nintendo chooses to indulge at least one of your wishes. If we can at least get Geno, then I'll have no regrets.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll confess, I was in the same boat as Serenade. I bought FP2 after Min Min because

A) I refused to buy the pass until I knew at least one of its characters as a subtle message to Nintendo that their "mystery box" style of advertising is crap
B) As a tournament player, I was pretty much obligated to have all available characters

That said, I'm not impressed with the pass so far and I offer my most sincere kudos to those of you that have stayed strong and abstained from the pass thus far. I encourage you to hold off until (or if) Nintendo chooses to indulge at least one of your wishes. If we can at least get Geno, then I'll have no regrets.

It's funny how just one character could turn the heart of even someone as cynical as me, but it really would make it all worth it. My only gripe after Geno will be that despite having the time and ability, they didn't satisfy fan requests for other characters that are honestly timeless, opting instead for, as I've said before, characters who are flavor of the month or who just turn heads with no substance.

 

[YsDisciple]

I naively wish for Nintendo to indulge us this Christmas with SMRPG on the NSO SNES Library and Geno's inclusion as CP 8 (or in the meantime I could settle for Crash, or Doom Guy).

 

[7NATOR]

I'll confess, I was in the same boat as Serenade. I bought FP2 after Min Min because

A) I refused to buy the pass until I knew at least one of its characters as a subtle message to Nintendo that their "mystery box" style of advertising is crap
B) As a tournament player, I was pretty much obligated to have all available characters

That said, I'm not impressed with the pass so far and I offer my most sincere kudos to those of you that have stayed strong and abstained from the pass thus far. I encourage you to hold off until (or if) Nintendo chooses to indulge at least one of your wishes. If we can at least get Geno, then I'll have no regrets.

Same Deal here. Plus to be honest with Regards to Min-Min, Because she's a Promoted character in the way of Spirit Promotion, I bought the Pass to show support towards updating Content already in the base Game

With that being Said, to be honest the DLC as been more Alright, But Not the most hype thing ever. I Don't Play any of the DLC as much as I do with the base roster characters except for Hero Sometimes, not that I don't like the rest, but. they aren't my Cup of Tea like characters like Cloud and Little Mac are for me. I do like Using Min-Min to Spam Forward Smashes from half across the Screen though, and I would Play Joker Much more if he was always in Arsene Mode

Geno isn't My Most Wanted Character, Shadow is. But I think if Geno was added, Geno seems like a Character I would Play a Great amount to be honest.

 

[MattX20]

When it comes to DLC passes, my position is either a character I really want makes it an instabuy or at least halfway through or more before I buy it. That's how I've handled my purchases for Smash DLC and Dragon Ball FighterZ for the most part

 

[7NATOR]

Oh also by the way, Since Takedowns are the Current topic in regards to Nintendo, I Need to ask

Do you think this adds to the Legitimacy of Legacy XP (the Mod that had Geno, Waluigi, Shadow, and Metal Sonic in it) being pressured into a takedown by Nintendo. To my knowledge, Project M was pressured by Nintendo towards people to make Project M fall out of favor and then Pressure the Decs themselves to cancel it, because they saw Project M as a threat

Could Nintendo have done the same to Legacy XP devs because they saw Project M as a threat. Keep in Mind that Legacy XP also never had nowhere near as much tournament presense as Project M

 

[Dukefire]

2 days left before the VGA. Again, try to reduce expectation levels and not think of Smash DLC. Just go with the flow.

 

[JarBear]

Oh also by the way, Since Takedowns are the Current topic in regards to Nintendo, I Need to ask

Do you think this adds to the Legitimacy of Legacy XP (the Mod that had Geno, Waluigi, Shadow, and Metal Sonic in it) being pressured into a takedown by Nintendo. To my knowledge, Project M was pressured by Nintendo towards people to make Project M fall out of favor and then Pressure the Decs themselves to cancel it, because they saw Project M as a threat

Could Nintendo have done the same to Legacy XP devs because they saw Project M as a threat. Keep in Mind that Legacy XP also never had nowhere near as much tournament presense as Project M

Short answer, probably. If people playing Melee online (via mods) is a problem, then a mod that has POSSIBLE fighters as part of the FP2 is a "threat" to their bottom line ... in the senes you have to pay for those fighters in Ultimate but they are "free" in this BRAWL MOD. I won't say 100%, but it is a reasonable theory.

Also, on the topic of FP8 ... the date means nothing since it is the same place holder for all the fighters before they are annoucned/released. Means nothing. I still think it's possible for a reveal this month because of the Smash Tournament ... those have been pretty good predictors for reveals thus far.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh also by the way, Since Takedowns are the Current topic in regards to Nintendo, I Need to ask

Do you think this adds to the Legitimacy of Legacy XP (the Mod that had Geno, Waluigi, Shadow, and Metal Sonic in it) being pressured into a takedown by Nintendo. To my knowledge, Project M was pressured by Nintendo towards people to make Project M fall out of favor and then Pressure the Decs themselves to cancel it, because they saw Project M as a threat

Could Nintendo have done the same to Legacy XP devs because they saw Project M as a threat. Keep in Mind that Legacy XP also never had nowhere near as much tournament presense as Project M

I think it could very well be. However, one thing off is that why didn’t Nintendo take action before E3 when Ridley was revealed? Legacy XP was probably the peak of its popularity back then. I think there were people who legitimately believe it was Smash Switch. Either SE pressured Nintendo to take action because of Geno or Nintnedo noticed the mod recently and it features one of its Fighters Pass characters.

 

[MattX20]

Short answer, probably. If people playing Melee online (via mods) is a problem, then a mod that has POSSIBLE fighters as part of the FP2 is a "threat" to their bottom line ... in the senes you have to pay for those fighters in Ultimate but they are "free" in this BRAWL MOD. I won't say 100%, but it is a reasonable theory.

Also, on the topic of FP8 ... the date means nothing since it is the same place holder for all the fighters before they are annoucned/released. Means nothing. I still think it's possible for a reveal this month because of the Smash Tournament ... those have been pretty good predictors for reveals thus far.

Exactly, we've had a reveal with two of the Challenge Cups concluding each. The Mario 35th one this Saturday also has some big prizes, which could very well be hinting to something occurring next week

 

[7NATOR]

I think it could very well be. However, one thing is that why didn’t Nintendo take action before E3 when Ridley was revealed? Legacy XP was probably the peak of its popularity back then. I think there were people who legitimately believe it was Smash Switch. Either SE pressured Nintendo to take action because of Geno or Nintnedo noticed the mod recently and it features one of its Fighters Pass characters.

That's a Question I asked too when this discussion arose When it was relevant, but I have some theories about this

1. DLC fighter, unlike Base Roster Fighter, have to Sell more on their own Merits as Characters. Base roster Characters come with the Game itself as a Whole Package, So they have that advantage. Plus DLC also doesn't sell as much as the Base game Obviously, as there are many people that just buy the game and that's it. Along with that As DLC continues, usually there are less Purchases overtime because of More Extra costs and that more people become less invested in the game or drop it as time goes on

Because of the DLC Fighters being the main Selling point of the DLC, a Mod having a Potential DLC Fighter is more of a threat than a base game fighter, because the Base Game fighter also comes with the whole game that has different features and stuff that the mod doesn't have

2. There could be Multiple Characters that are Implicated here, and not just One. Ridley was the only Character That was in that Mod that became newly Playable in Ultimate. Perhaps because there's more than 1 Character this time that's Potentially DLC in FP2, that might grind Nintendo's Gears. this theory could also go hand in hand with the first one

3.As you mentioned, A Third Party like Square might have taken notice and asked Nintendo to take it down. This also adds with stuff like the Music Takedowns

4. More Specfically on Geno, If Geno is added as Playable or Premium costume, this will be the first time he has a Full 3D Model ingame. This would be big Deal, so they don't want a Mod having the luxury of being the first

 

[Deleted member]

I think it could very well be. However, one thing off is that why didn’t Nintendo take action before E3 when Ridley was revealed? Legacy XP was probably the peak of its popularity back then. I think there were people who legitimately believe it was Smash Switch. Either SE pressured Nintendo to take action because of Geno or Nintnedo noticed the mod recently and it features one of its Fighters Pass characters.

Ridley is what ****ing gets me, man. Literally the biggest name in Smash fan speculation and desire, and there he was in a two bit Brawl mod that had nowhere near the legacy (heh) or adoption rate of PM. Seems like if your goal is to eliminate competition to your upcoming game, the obvious move is to go after Smash mods that feature Ridley before E3. The only counterpoint I can think to this is that Nintendo didn't consider Ridley that big of a deal and instead considered Ultimate's draw every character returning, which a Brawl mod can't hope to compete with. In that case we'd have the two big Brawl mod takedowns coinciding with Nintendo wanting to push 4 as the competitive standard (PM) and Legacy XP potentially having a character in it that would show up as DLC and therefore be more arguably threatened by that character being playable in a passable modified version of the game.

The thing about the Legacy XP takedown is that it smells fishy either way. I believe there was some relevance to it, but it's hard to say with any certainty that it was Geno.

 

[JarBear]

The Ridley thing in legacy XP not being taken down most likely has to do with it being base game. Ridley was part of the package of a whole new game. So his inclusion, financially in sales, is minuscule. What is the "worth" of Ridley, one fighter, in a $60 game that comes with other fighters, new and old, BRAND NEW GAME, story mode, Stickers Spirits, Music, et. etc? Not much.

Now a DLC fighter has direct and SIGNIFICANT value. Be it First Party or Third Party, there is value to them. Far more so than any of the base fighters. On top of that, it is even a BIGGER deal when it involves third party since that is another party involved in the financial success in a DLC fighter.

So Ridley in Legacy XP not being a "reason to take it down" has at least an explanation on why it wasn't canned right away. No value. (nothing against Ridley or Metroid fans, I like 'em and can't wait for Prime 4) But a DLC fighter and ESPECIALLY a third party DLC fighter has good reason to kill that mod.

 

[Deleted member]

The Ridley thing in legacy XP not being taken down most likely has to do with it being base game. Ridley was part of the package of a whole new game. So his inclusion, financially in sales, is minuscule. What is the "worth" of Ridley, one fighter, in a $60 game that comes with other fighters, new and old, BRAND NEW GAME, story mode, Stickers Spirits, Music, et. etc? Not much.

Now a DLC fighter has direct and SIGNIFICANT value. Be it First Party or Third Party, there is value to them. Far more so than any of the base fighters. On top of that, it is even a BIGGER deal when it involves third party since that is another party involved in the financial success in a DLC fighter.

So Ridley in Legacy XP not being a "reason to take it down" has at least an explanation on why it wasn't canned right away. No value. (nothing against Ridley or Metroid fans, I like 'em and can't wait for Prime 4) But a DLC fighter and ESPECIALLY a third party DLC fighter has good reason to kill that mod.

Then why bother attacking PM back when they did? Why go after Mario Battle Royale when you're releasing a free game that you're going to do away with in six months' time? Why go after a porn game when you have no intention of making your own?

 

[JarBear]

Project M is pretty simple, they don't like competition with their old Smash games, especially with mods. Especially when it comes to the "Competitive" scene, we've literally just watched Nintendo kill the whole Melee thing.

Mario Battle Royale using their own IP to make a game, especially when they were planning and working on making the same kind of thing? Course they will kill that. That was one of their items from their Mario 35 Anniversary package ... why have something steal their Thunder?