Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[novazvezda]

Let's see what the 9pm est Smash tweet is this week...

 

[GenoDoge]

Would Porky fit Voice Theory? He could have his younger (Earthbound) and older (Mother 3) appearances as different costumes. Just some food for thought. Some more food for thought is: if Geno gets in with no voice, that points to TWO characters with gender/age alts.

Anyway, I wasn't in Smash speculation during pre-release and most of Fighter's Pass 1. I actually got the game at the end of 2019 and so the first reveal I ever actually cared about watching ended up being Byleth. I did get pretty excited at Min Min's reveal (namely that she looked like a fun character and the fact spirits didn't disconfirm). Steve was extremely hype for me. What was all of yours' favorite reveal?

 

[novazvezda]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Looks like a tournament with fighters who can use tools. This is the Steve inspired tournament that was probably skipped over in the data.

 

[Powerman293]

Guys, it has been 2 years since That leak we don't talk about: https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1318568454216175616?s=20

Given how I edited 3 documentary videos on the subject, yet was barely aware of it while it happened, I feel a weird connection to this whole situation. I spent months going back over an event that only lasted like a week?

 

[TriggerX]

Geno will most likely have a “voice”. I’m sure steve is the only exception.
Ofcourse I wouldn’t expect him to be saying full on sentences, but it seems like he’ll at least have unique audio files.
The character has been shown to speak. If anything I expect him to follow the same pattern as any other Mario character that just utilizes short phrases and grunts. I mean bowser speaks full sentences yet you only hear him grunt anyways. I guess sunshine is the exception?

 

[MisterMike]

It's really weird. Like I didn't believe the Grinch leak, but I was still kind of upset when Incin showed up. He's pretty much one of the only characters I've had a negative reaction to that I ended up liking later on.

This. I was initially pretty disappointed with Incineroar when he was revealed, which is kind of weird seeing as he was my starter for both Sun and Ultra Sun. But after the initial shock wore off I found him really growing on me. His moveset is really creative and he just oozes personality in everything he does.

Also this:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Looks like a tournament with fighters who can use tools. This is the Steve inspired tournament that was probably skipped over in the data.

• New tournament that ties into Steve's inclusion
• The Mario 35th Anniversary Tournament has been pushed back until December despite having little-to-no reason to be delayed 'til then

Dare I dream?

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Hey look at that! Looks like we are getting a new patch! Probably just fixing some Steve bugs but it's news nonetheless https://twitter.com/NinEverything/status/1318724374036246528?s=20

 

[Enigma735]

I know Geno can speak dialogue in Mario RPG, but I just cannot see him get a voice actor to speak his lines. However, that doesn't mean I don't think he'll appear on the sound test. I just think Sakurai will stick to making his voice clips the various sound effects from Mario RPG.

 

[Trevenant]

Anyone heard this pretty awesome Beware The Forest Mushrooms mix? Was from years ago and seems underlooked on YT in general.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Looks like a tournament with fighters who can use tools. This is the Steve inspired tournament that was probably skipped over in the data.

I always love the new art that they show when doing tournaments, and this one is no exception!
It sadly reminds me though that we never got any newcomer art for this game aside from Inkling, Joker, and Min Min.

Hey look at that! Looks like we are getting a new patch! Probably just fixing some Steve bugs but it's news nonetheless https://twitter.com/NinEverything/status/1318724374036246528?s=20

If I had to take a guess, it’s very likely patching out that one glitch where an opponent could get trapped in Steve’s minecart forever.

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

Do they still have any rumors about Tohou? I'm not a big fan of it, but I'd love if UN Owen was her got into smash

I've been wondering about this for the past few days. Mainly because of the whole "Steve took 5 years to negociate" thing. I don't know the legitimacy of Touhou in Smash, I mean, I imagine that would be hard to leak because you would THINK it would only be ZUN to know but no lol. I think if it somehow is true, Touhou in Smash probably has been a thing for 2-3 years, which is pretty crazy. I guess they want a lot of fan-music? I need more info on these rumors I only know so little, can anyone help?

 

[MisterMike]

Anyone heard this pretty awesome Beware The Forest Mushrooms mix? Was from years ago and seems underlooked on YT in general.

Somehow I don't think the Corrin corn video is what you meant to send.
Regardless, it was pretty funny, so thanks for the laugh.

If I had to take a guess, it’s very likely patching out that one glitch where an opponent could get trapped in Steve’s minecart forever.

Sonic sends people to Minecraft, Steve sends people to the Nicaraguan diamond mines.

 

[drewber2635]

Hey guys, I don’t post very often but I am a huge fan of Geno and of this amazing thread. I have so much faith in Geno getting into FP2, I just know he is coming. Also, regarding the recent voice theory discussion, a lot of folks here are concerned about Geno getting voiced (or possibly not getting in because of no voice) but couldn’t he be along the same lines as Link or Hero where he doesn’t actually say any words but just grunts and makes combat noises? HIIIIYAAA ya know? I think that would be a great middle ground

 

[MattX20]

Hey guys, I don’t post very often but I am a huge fan of Geno and of this amazing thread. I have so much faith in Geno getting into FP2, I just know he is coming. Also, regarding the recent voice theory discussion, a lot of folks here are concerned about Geno getting voiced (or possibly not getting in because of no voice) but couldn’t he be along the same lines as Link or Hero where he doesn’t actually say any words but just grunts and makes combat noises? HIIIIYAAA ya know? I think that would be a great middle ground

I've been guessing something like this, with maybe one or two full sentences of dialogue given that's how most of the Mario reps voice tests are like

 

[Enigma735]

Hey guys, I don’t post very often but I am a huge fan of Geno and of this amazing thread. I have so much faith in Geno getting into FP2, I just know he is coming. Also, regarding the recent voice theory discussion, a lot of folks here are concerned about Geno getting voiced (or possibly not getting in because of no voice) but couldn’t he be along the same lines as Link or Hero where he doesn’t actually say any words but just grunts and makes combat noises? HIIIIYAAA ya know? I think that would be a great middle ground

Welcome to the thread! I'm sure MisterMike will give you your obligatory Geno hat soon.

I think this could be possible, but I actually think Geno's voice clips could simply be sound effects from Super Mario RPG.

 

[drewber2635]

Welcome to the thread! I'm sure MisterMike will give you your obligatory Geno hat soon.

I think this could be possible, but I actually think Geno's voice clips could simply be sound effects from Super Mario RPG.

Thanks for the welcome! And I could see that being a thing too with the sound effects from SMRPG

 

[Mr. Peepee]

So here's something interesting, in the September Partner's Showcase, they don't say anything like "We look forward to more partner showcases later this year" The July and August showcase's said this at the end but not for September. I'm not sure if this means that we aren't getting more. Partner showcases were probably created cause of the pandemic and we might not see them anymore after this year.

 

[MisterMike]

Hey guys, I don’t post very often but I am a huge fan of Geno and of this amazing thread. I have so much faith in Geno getting into FP2, I just know he is coming. Also, regarding the recent voice theory discussion, a lot of folks here are concerned about Geno getting voiced (or possibly not getting in because of no voice) but couldn’t he be along the same lines as Link or Hero where he doesn’t actually say any words but just grunts and makes combat noises? HIIIIYAAA ya know? I think that would be a great middle ground

Yeah, I think this is mostly what they'll do with him. I say mostly because I can totally see them having him call out his special moves when he does them. He goes out to use Geno Flash and he's all "You're finished! GENO FLASH!".

Also, welcome to the thread! Geno hat:

So here's something interesting, in the September Partner's Showcase, they don't say anything like "We look forward to more partner showcases later this year" The July and August showcase's said this at the end but not for September. I'm not sure if this means that we aren't getting more. Partner showcases were probably created cause of the pandemic and we might not see them anymore after this year.

Maybe they realized that people generally didn't like the Partner Showcases and just decided to nix them? Wishful thinking, I know, but it's possible.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

In a similar vein to whether or not Geno would be voiced, do you all think he would get a modern redesign?

The Mario character's appearances (especially Daisy and Bowser) tended to fluctuate throughout the 80s and 90s, before permanently becoming set in stone by the GameCube era.

I imagine if Geno was changed, it'd be something less drastic such as being somewhat taller and thinner, like what happened to Mario and Luigi.

A decent example of what I'm thinking of would look sort of like the Project M Geno mod.

https://smashboards.com/attachments/geno-2-png.31095/

 

[GenoDoge]

I honestly am starting to suspect we might see a proper Nintendo Direct in November to show us Nintendo's plans for Q1 2021 (beyond Super Mario 3D World) and Q2 2021. They could also show off the next Smash character even if they don't release until January (like a Joker or Terry situation, or a gulp guessing game...). I might be too hopeful though. I just really want good proper news. Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition, Paper Mario: The Origami King, Super Mario 3D All-Stars, Pikmin 3 Deluxe, Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, and all of the other smaller releases have been pretty big or relatively hyped titles, but 2021 is definitely the big year for Nintendo. Nintendo's 2020 is shaping of to be a repeat of 2018: a year with fewer releases, but all of said releases are pretty big, followed by a really huge year.

Okay, how does my little simple posts always turn into big paragraphs LOL.

 

[PatPrime]

It's really weird. Like I didn't believe the Grinch leak, but I was still kind of upset when Incin showed up. He's pretty much one of the only characters I've had a negative reaction to that I ended up liking later on.

I pretty much share the exact feeling with Incineroar here. He is pretty fun but I didn't like him at first mostly for killing the Grinch leak.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

November 1st, 2018 will be one of the best and worst (mostly worst) days of Smash speculation and will live on in infamy until the end of time.

 

[Pakky]

It's really weird. Like I didn't believe the Grinch leak, but I was still kind of upset when Incin showed up. He's pretty much one of the only characters I've had a negative reaction to that I ended up liking later on.

To level with you, that's why I thought the whole thing was fake or at least incomplete.

A new smash without one new Pokemon? Never.

And everyone from previous games coming back had no bearing on anything.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I thought the Grinch leak was real, there was a lot of good evidence to support its legitimacy. Looking back though, why would they announce 6 (or technically 5 cause of Ken) brand new characters a month away from the game's release. That just seemed like too much, not to mention the other modes and spirits the dev team had to develop to get the game released on time.

 

[Nemo_Namikaze]

In a similar vein to whether or not Geno would be voiced, do you all think he would get a modern redesign?

The Mario character's appearances (especially Daisy and Bowser) tended to fluctuate throughout the 80s and 90s, before permanently becoming set in stone by the GameCube era.

I imagine if Geno was changed, it'd be something less drastic such as being somewhat taller and thinner, like what happened to Mario and Luigi.

A decent example of what I'm thinking of would look sort of like the Project M Geno mod.

https://smashboards.com/attachments/geno-2-png.31095/

This is actually something I feel a lot of people missed which is weird because its HUGE evidence towards Geno.

He DID get a modern redesign. Just like K. Rool before him there's design changes present in the MII COSTUME!

Its not much, but obviously his gun (which was the infamous 'pulsating rod' before) now has a more fleshed out look.
Less obvious is his torso, he has an added section to his torso for extra articulation. Originally in SMRPG his torso was split into two sections and upper chest area and his pelvis. If you look at the mii costume he now has a new middle section making his torso have 3 segments rather than 2.

Maybe disappointing if you wanted something more dramatic, but I think the mii costume is once again the ironic smoking gun for Geno's inclusion!

 

[Griselda]

This is actually something I feel a lot of people missed which is weird because its HUGE evidence towards Geno.

He DID get a modern redesign. Just like K. Rool before him there's design changes present in the MII COSTUME!

Its not much, but obviously his gun (which was the infamous 'pulsating rod' before) now has a more fleshed out look.
Less obvious is his torso, he has an added section to his torso for extra articulation. Originally in SMRPG his torso was split into two sections and upper chest area and his pelvis. If you look at the mii costume he now has a new middle section making his torso have 3 segments rather than 2.

Maybe disappointing if you wanted something more dramatic, but I think the mii costume is once again the ironic smoking gun for Geno's inclusion!

This makes me wonder if there was an actual model sheet made for the updated design - one that could've possibly included his head... and which could've then been reused as a model sheet for his fighter model in Ultimate.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

I don’t get why voice theory is a bad thing. Don’t all the characters make a sound? Geno does speak in SMRPG, but will probably just make sounds from the game, most likely similar to how he turned out in Brawl Legacy or something.

 

[Trevenant]

Somehow I don't think the Corrin corn video is what you meant to send.
Regardless, it was pretty funny, so thanks for the laugh.


Sonic sends people to Minecraft, Steve sends people to the Nicaraguan diamond mines.

Oops my bad. I used the text to link function and I remember sending the Corrin one a long time ago so my bad. Just because I now can't trust the functions what do you guys think of the ACTUAL remix. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=boo9Rk4jAkE&t=23s a guy in the comments said it perfectly for me at least that it lines to with how Yoko makes the songs stylistically nowadays in Smash and such

 

[CopperKoopa]

I feel like the time has definitely passed for another Pokemon rep.

-Pokemon got a placeholder for the base roster in 2015. Sakurai didn't even pick Inceniroar for another two years afterwards, likely making it the last character decided for the base roster by a considerable amount.

-Pokemon Sword and Shield spirit event last year. If they had plans for Sword and Shield, why did they play their cards so quickly? As a reminder, Three Houses spirits were delayed half a year for Byleth's inclusion. It's especially in your face that Sobble, Grookie, and Scorbunny were all mashed into one spirit battle.

-Pokemon is very particular about how their characters are depicted and has no problems with characters being dumped if they don't properly reflect the modern "brand" of Pokemon. Brawl saw the loss of Pichu and Mewtwo while Smash 4 lost Squirtle and Ivysaur. If TPC wanted a Pokemon to hork Gen 8, it would have been in by now and honestly probably would have been a Fighter's Pass character at the latest.

-TPC isn't a huge fan of paid DLC and even said in January that the Sword and Shield DLC was only being done so they didn't have to make an entirely new third game for Gen 8. Apparently there was a lot of infighting about having Mewtwo in Smash 4 with TPC ironically being the ones that wanted him to be free with Nintendo actively fighting them on this.

I think it's a weird thing that people won't let go because TPC doesn't appear to be super interested and neither do Smash fans in general. Ultimate already has its obligatory new Pokemon rep and it doesn't exactly help that the most wanted Gen 8 Pokemon is yet another fully evolved fire starter Pokemon. It would be different if the demand was there because a big reason why Mewtwo came back was because Mewtwo was one of the most wanted characters for Smash 4, period, but a Gen 8 Pokemon is significantly further down the list in what people want right now.

I am playing suuuuuuper catch up here.

I agree with your logic, Fatmanonice , that a Pokemon rep maybe won't be in this pass. But I don't think TPC is beyond shilling one bit. I'm still holding my breath for another Byleth situation. And while we're at it, I think it's going to be Cinderace. People will moan, but he has the most interesting potential for a moveset and doesn't conflict with already existing fighters. Rillaboom is basically green DK holding a drum with a rhythm gimmick; both a new "gorilla" and having our first rhythm based fighter are best saved for somebody else, IMO. Intelleon doesn't stand out as much as the other 2 and its moveset or gimmick don't seem to be anything new or interesting; Inteleon is also the least popular of the 3 Galar starters, which means it won't be shilled as much by TPC.

Cinderace has the most potential. A spry, jumpy, athletic fighter whose main gimmick would revolve around soccer ball physics using a fireball it pulls out of hammerspace? Sign me right the @*$! up, that sounds amazing!

 

[Geno Boost]

I am not sure why people think if there is a Pokémon rep to come it has to be from Sword and shield is this another fan rule?

 

[Deleted member]

I am not sure why people think if there is a Pokémon rep to come it has to be from Sword and shield is this another fan rule?

Yes, this would be the fan rule of "disappointment is inevitable".

 

[CopperKoopa]

View attachment 289735

Voice theory, huh? Alright... Let's analyze this.

Allegedly 4 packs left but 5 voice "spots" left. A pretty simple answer to this is that one of the characters has a gender swap or a notable ALT change. Based on past precedent, it's likely an ALT change. Why? Let me map out the first two seasons of DLC:

Smash 4 had 7 DLC characters but, coincidentally enough, 6 Mii costume waves and 7 stages that could be downloaded for both versions of the game. If this sounds weirdly familiar, this is because this is the direction Season 2 is currently going because we got a bonus stage so, at the very least, Season 2 will end with 7 new stages and 6 Mii costume waves. Smash 4 was 7 characters, 7 stages, but 6 Mii costume waves because Mewtwo was a bonus.

The Fighter's Pass technically had 6 characters, 5 stages, and 5 Mii costume waves. Plant was a bonus so this makes sense. Now let's go back...

If we eliminate bonuses, we get 6 characters for Smash 4 DLC and 5 for the Fighter's Pass. Now let's break it down by all the characters so:

-Lucas: no ALTs
-Roy: no ALTs
-Ryu: no ALTs
-Cloud: ALT
-Corrin: gender swap ALT
-Bayonetta: ALT

-Joker: ALT
-Hero: multiple ALTs
-Banjo: no ALTs
-Terry: no ALTs
-Byleth: gender swap ALT

-Min Min: no ALT
-Steve: multiple ALTs, gender swap ALT

If you look at this overview, you'll notice that each wave has had an exclusively female character, a character with a gender swap, and a character with a notable ALT change. Season 2 has already had their exclusively female character (Min Min) and a gender swap character (Steve) so this heavily suggests that this mystery character is a notable costume change that brings along differences in sound effects or voice clips. Let's go into this.

In Smash 4, Cloud had a notable ALT change but it didn't bring along new sounds. Bayonetta also had a notable ALT change and a big thing that this brings is that Bayonetta can speak Japanese in one ALT but not the other . In Ultimate, Joker has his "Notice Me Senpai" ALT but, like Cloud, brings no new voice clips or sound effects. Hero is obviously the most radical ALT character we've had since Bowser Jr and every ALT has different voice clips. Going back to our mystery character, we can conclude that the character has different voice clips for some reason.

Based on what we've seen so far, if characters don't have gender swaps but get different voice clips, it's because the ALTs either turn the character into another character that's extremely similar or change them into a younger/older version of the character. I think this is the angle that people should consider when considering voice theory. Season 2 already has an exclusively female character and a gender swap character so this suggests that this character is male but has a version of themselves or a similar compatriot noteworthy enough to include as an ALT.

TLDR version:

-Mystery character is most likely male based on past precedent.

-Odds of it being a gender swap character are very low based on past precedent.

-Most likely explanation is older/younger version of character or a character that could be effortlessly swapped out for them like in the case of Hero, Bowser Jr, or Olimar.

These characters can share a character space with others because its a non-issue. Olimar and Alph, for example, fight canonically the same and have similar personalities. The Heroes are blank avatars so there's no real personality differences there either in the context of Smash. The Koopalings all have very unique personalities but that doesn't matter because it's the Klown Kart the does a vast majority of the fighting. This also why all these characters share victory screens and taunts. Based on this, this mystery character will likely be the same.

Disclaimer: this all is going off the assumption that these last four packs are literally it as far as characters go. Another exceedingly simple explanation is that there's 5 characters left but one that's not not included in a pack but that's a whole other can of worms.

Not sure I'd consider FP1 having an "exclusively female character." Byleth's default is male and at best the female is an alt treated like a separate character, but so is the case for Hero so... I don't buy it. This whole scheme outlined in your post isn't really a pattern to predict off of anyway -- Sakurai and team could do w/ever they want.

I do agree that Voice Theory is very, very probable and we are likely going to get a DLC fighter with an alt. Not because of your outline I quoted, however, but because it just makes a lot of sense given how much the DLC characters have crammed into them. You want to know my hot take? It's Hayabusa, with a retro and modern alt, both using different voices.

Boom.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I feel like voice theory requires a mystery character to perfectly thread a needle that basically two characters have achieved at this point: Hero and Ike. As I complained on Discord, based on past precedent, it would need to be a male character that's not a gender swap but has different iconic forms and voices but not different enough to justify an echo. I'm actually getting a headache with how ****in' specific that is. Imagine if Alph and Olimar actually talked and that's basically what we're looking for: a character that could pass as a true clone, not an echo. It feels like a dead end if you go about it as literally as possible.

I definitely think you’re focusing too much on the no gender swap thing. I don’t think they decide characters based on that. & even if they do, I doubt Steve/Alex would count since they’re basically alt colors instead of a new model.

As for Geno, I imagine he’d have grunts & battle cries at the very least. I could see him being a bit like Meta Knight vocally.

 

[Vector Victor]

Am I crazy, but I feel that Ryu was never a part of Smash speculation discussion until that fake leak right after Joker that said that Pass 1 was Joker, Erdrick, Steve, Ryu and Doomguy. Then after that, Ryu is brought up all the time.

 

[Trevenant]

Am I crazy, but I feel that Ryu was never a part of Smash speculation discussion until that fake leak right after Joker that said that Pass 1 was Joker, Erdrick, Steve, Ryu and Doomguy. Then after that, Ryu is brought up all the time.

Nah I don't think you are. Of course there was some but he only started gaining real traction until that. Not that it was surprising as Ryu was never going to be in base game. He seems like a prime pick for DLC anyways.

 

[MattX20]

You know, people forget that the Dragon Quest heroes were largely mute in their games, and they all got voice clips. Geno talked a lot in his games, so it seems weird to me that people are assuming Geno won't have one when all but Piranha Plant had voice clips of some kind with them

 

[Fatmanonice]

On the topic of Geno having a voice, I looked through the voice clip menu and found that Megaman didn't have a voice tab either. Megaman probably has the most distinctive sounds of any character in the game but doesn't talk so I imagine Geno would be given a similar treatment.

 

[Snoop_nogg]

Speaking of female alts, am I the only one who wished they included Cutie Terry from SNK Heroines?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

You know, people forget that the Dragon Quest heroes were largely mute in their games, and they all got voice clips. Geno talked a lot in his games, so it seems weird to me that people are assuming Geno won't have one when all but Piranha Plant had voice clips of some kind with them

for what Its worth, Lumi wasnt mute in his game. He didnt talk but he made noices

 

[Deleted member]

Am I crazy, but I feel that Ryu was never a part of Smash speculation discussion until that fake leak right after Joker that said that Pass 1 was Joker, Erdrick, Steve, Ryu and Doomguy. Then after that, Ryu is brought up all the time.

I tell this story so often I feel like a war vet.

Ryu Hayabusa was an uncommon pick on those classic rosters that were approaching 100 characters big (long before that looked like a genuine possibility) and was often touted as an NES icon (as he is even now). I think there are some 25+ year old gamers who think he has a genuine shot in Smash and others who just think he'd be cool. That's where Ryu was for all of Smash 4 speculation and base release Ultimate.

Then VGA 2018 was hyped up. Koei Tecmo said they had a special announcement there in relation to Nintendo, and that got people stirred up. I saw a good handful of threads over on /v/ around that time that suddenly were dead set that Ryu Hayabusa was going to be announced as the first DLC character in Ultimate... and then it turned out that KT's announcement was Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Ever since then, it feels like Ryu has refused to leave speculation and I genuinely blame "insiders" who are nothing more than /v/ posters at heart.

For what it's worth, I don't consider Ryu an NES icon. Ninja Gaiden spanned three games that I only heard about in my young life because they were in the back of the NES Game Atlas, a compilation strategy guide. When we got high speed internet in about 2003, I don't remember anyone ever talking about or making references to Ninja Gaiden, and really, I only remember it coming into popularity around the time of Egoraptor's "Awesome" series, which also happened to spring up around the time of the reboot Ninja Gaiden games on the original Xbox (or was it PS2...). That era of reboot Ninja Gaiden titles is when I first started hearing people buzz about it because of the brutal difficulty of the game and the ragequits induced by it, with a lot of my close friends telling me it was the first time they ever broke a controller. Ryu, or maybe Ninja Gaiden itself, feels like a forgotten relic of the NES and more of an icon of the Xbox era.

Mr. Hayabusa is free to Smash whenever he likes but I'm not gonna be happy about it if it's before Geno.