Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

for what Its worth, Lumi wasnt mute in his game. He didnt talk but he made noices

It's why I said largely mute, Luminary was more talkative as a child then he was as an adult. The others had no sound effects/voice effects for their games

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It's why I said largely mute, Luminary was more talkative as a child then he was as an adult. The others had no sound effects/voice effects for their games

You know, I legit forgot he talked fully as a kid until you just mentioned it lol rip.

Makes me wonder, if the other 3 heroes and by extent to stay on this places topic, geno, were made today, would they also have a voice via grunt and gasps since its the norm now

 

[MattX20]

You know, I legit forgot he talked fully as a kid until you just mentioned it lol rip.

Makes me wonder, if the other 3 heroes and by extent to stay on this places topic, geno, were made today, would they also have a voice via grunt and gasps since its the norm now

I'd expect Geno to be similar to the other Mario reps, with some grunts/other vocals and one or two full lines of dialogue whether it be for taunts or victory screens.

 

[Trevenant]

Sound effects don't actually show up in sound test aside from Bullet Arts and minor exceptions. I'd imagine Geno wouldn't be voiced. He does talk in SMRPG but that isn't with sound clips and part of me think that Geno would just be better without. He has spoke before but key thing is it was never voiced. Idk but a star inhabiting a doll doesn't seem like the kind of character I'd imagine Sakurai getting a voice for. Sakurai places voiced where they fit and that's why I think Geno could go without. He would have SMRPG sound effects though.

On the topic of Hero he was probably voiced just to give consistency between skins. Luminary was always going to be the first when they were negotiating since it was pretty smart business wise and then since DQ11 was voiced they did so for the Luminary and then just thought they had to for the rest. They were also originally considering not voicing the heroes but Id assume DQ11 was what changed their stance.

 

[CopperKoopa]

On the topic of Geno having a voice, I looked through the voice clip menu and found that Megaman didn't have a voice tab either. Megaman probably has the most distinctive sounds of any character in the game but doesn't talk so I imagine Geno would be given a similar treatment.

Thanks for reminding me Mega Man doesn't feel like a complete character because he's missing his voice... (and so is Wily >)

Mr. Hayabusa is free to Smash whenever he likes but I'm not gonna be happy about it if it's before Geno.

I accept your right to an opinion about Hayabusa not being an icon, but just the single fact that he's been regularly lumped into compilation flash videos and games of the 2000's made by 30+ year old millennials (like myself), I'm going to politely disagree. The 3 Ninja Gaiden games are regularly lumped with Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Mega Man, Zelda, Mario, Metroid... all the classics. It really does feel like one of the few missing "gems" of that era, all the modern sequels lumped into that equation or not.

It's why I said largely mute, Luminary was more talkative as a child then he was as an adult. The others had no sound effects/voice effects for their games

I think the Heroes all being human characters helps. And the fact they have been voiced in various media over in Japan, even counting their speech balloons in manga as a "voice" too. It would make less sense for them to not talk. Characters like Villager are "human," but not really, so them not having a voice isn't as strange (though it bugs me how few SFX from AC actually pop up for Villager and Isabelle, like Isabelle's little ringing bell sound effect when she walks or speaks)

 

[Enigma735]

I tell this story so often I feel like a war vet.

Ryu Hayabusa was an uncommon pick on those classic rosters that were approaching 100 characters big (long before that looked like a genuine possibility) and was often touted as an NES icon (as he is even now). I think there are some 25+ year old gamers who think he has a genuine shot in Smash and others who just think he'd be cool. That's where Ryu was for all of Smash 4 speculation and base release Ultimate.

Then VGA 2018 was hyped up. Koei Tecmo said they had a special announcement there in relation to Nintendo, and that got people stirred up. I saw a good handful of threads over on /v/ around that time that suddenly were dead set that Ryu Hayabusa was going to be announced as the first DLC character in Ultimate... and then it turned out that KT's announcement was Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Ever since then, it feels like Ryu has refused to leave speculation and I genuinely blame "insiders" who are nothing more than /v/ posters at heart.

For what it's worth, I don't consider Ryu an NES icon. Ninja Gaiden spanned three games that I only heard about in my young life because they were in the back of the NES Game Atlas, a compilation strategy guide. When we got high speed internet in about 2003, I don't remember anyone ever talking about or making references to Ninja Gaiden, and really, I only remember it coming into popularity around the time of Egoraptor's "Awesome" series, which also happened to spring up around the time of the reboot Ninja Gaiden games on the original Xbox (or was it PS2...). That era of reboot Ninja Gaiden titles is when I first started hearing people buzz about it because of the brutal difficulty of the game and the ragequits induced by it, with a lot of my close friends telling me it was the first time they ever broke a controller. Ryu, or maybe Ninja Gaiden itself, feels like a forgotten relic of the NES and more of an icon of the Xbox era.

Mr. Hayabusa is free to Smash whenever he likes but I'm not gonna be happy about it if it's before Geno.

I don't wanna get too off-topic, but I have to agree to disagree on this one. Ninja Gaiden does have games on the Xbox, yes, but its laughable if you think he's more iconic on the Xbox then the NES, because the Ninja Gaiden games on the NES are the most iconic games in the entire franchise. Hayabusa, along with maybe Bill Rizer from Contra, are the last big NES icons to have yet to get included, and as such I think Hayabusa has definitely earned a spot on the roster.

 

[Mizzle]

I tell this story so often I feel like a war vet.

Ryu Hayabusa was an uncommon pick on those classic rosters that were approaching 100 characters big (long before that looked like a genuine possibility) and was often touted as an NES icon (as he is even now). I think there are some 25+ year old gamers who think he has a genuine shot in Smash and others who just think he'd be cool. That's where Ryu was for all of Smash 4 speculation and base release Ultimate.

Then VGA 2018 was hyped up. Koei Tecmo said they had a special announcement there in relation to Nintendo, and that got people stirred up. I saw a good handful of threads over on /v/ around that time that suddenly were dead set that Ryu Hayabusa was going to be announced as the first DLC character in Ultimate... and then it turned out that KT's announcement was Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Ever since then, it feels like Ryu has refused to leave speculation and I genuinely blame "insiders" who are nothing more than /v/ posters at heart.

For what it's worth, I don't consider Ryu an NES icon. Ninja Gaiden spanned three games that I only heard about in my young life because they were in the back of the NES Game Atlas, a compilation strategy guide. When we got high speed internet in about 2003, I don't remember anyone ever talking about or making references to Ninja Gaiden, and really, I only remember it coming into popularity around the time of Egoraptor's "Awesome" series, which also happened to spring up around the time of the reboot Ninja Gaiden games on the original Xbox (or was it PS2...). That era of reboot Ninja Gaiden titles is when I first started hearing people buzz about it because of the brutal difficulty of the game and the ragequits induced by it, with a lot of my close friends telling me it was the first time they ever broke a controller. Ryu, or maybe Ninja Gaiden itself, feels like a forgotten relic of the NES and more of an icon of the Xbox era.

Mr. Hayabusa is free to Smash whenever he likes but I'm not gonna be happy about it if it's before Geno.

Okay, hold up. Just because you didn't see people "make references" to Ninja Gaiden suddenly means that the series isn't iconic? Plenty of people knew about it and loved the series, even if you personally didn't see anyone talking about it. People love the reboot series too, and just because you may have seen it talked about it more doesn't mean that the NES games are any less known or loved.

It's also pretty funny how you're using the same gatekeeping argument people use against Geno by saying that people only cared about Ninja Gaiden when some animator made a video about it. You also sound pretty petty when you say that you're not going to be happy with a character's inclusion if it's before Geno. It's not like Hayabusa would magically steal Geno's spot.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

I tell this story so often I feel like a war vet.

Ryu Hayabusa was an uncommon pick on those classic rosters that were approaching 100 characters big (long before that looked like a genuine possibility) and was often touted as an NES icon (as he is even now). I think there are some 25+ year old gamers who think he has a genuine shot in Smash and others who just think he'd be cool. That's where Ryu was for all of Smash 4 speculation and base release Ultimate.

Then VGA 2018 was hyped up. Koei Tecmo said they had a special announcement there in relation to Nintendo, and that got people stirred up. I saw a good handful of threads over on /v/ around that time that suddenly were dead set that Ryu Hayabusa was going to be announced as the first DLC character in Ultimate... and then it turned out that KT's announcement was Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Ever since then, it feels like Ryu has refused to leave speculation and I genuinely blame "insiders" who are nothing more than /v/ posters at heart.

For what it's worth, I don't consider Ryu an NES icon. Ninja Gaiden spanned three games that I only heard about in my young life because they were in the back of the NES Game Atlas, a compilation strategy guide. When we got high speed internet in about 2003, I don't remember anyone ever talking about or making references to Ninja Gaiden, and really, I only remember it coming into popularity around the time of Egoraptor's "Awesome" series, which also happened to spring up around the time of the reboot Ninja Gaiden games on the original Xbox (or was it PS2...). That era of reboot Ninja Gaiden titles is when I first started hearing people buzz about it because of the brutal difficulty of the game and the ragequits induced by it, with a lot of my close friends telling me it was the first time they ever broke a controller. Ryu, or maybe Ninja Gaiden itself, feels like a forgotten relic of the NES and more of an icon of the Xbox era.

Mr. Hayabusa is free to Smash whenever he likes but I'm not gonna be happy about it if it's before Geno.

Dude, Hayabusa is an icon. He has the classic trilogy on NES.

 

[Geno Boost]

Yes, this would be the fan rule of "disappointment is inevitable".

Pokemon series has many interesting concept for their pokemons which brings something new to the table such as shapeshifting characters such as Rotom and Deoxys even Ditto i am tired of starters (other than Grovyle but thats entirely a different subject)
isnt having starters enough for the pokemon smash fans? honestly
how much more starters we need really?
imagin smash reaches their 10th installment and still the pokemon newcomers reps are the starters
i liked greninja and decidueye in the pokemons games i played but it doesnt mean i automatically would them in smash because i am aware other pokemons has a greater potential and what they bring to the table
i remember the support of Sceptile suddenly appearing out of nowhere and the only reason was being a grass type starter seriously?

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

I tell this story so often I feel like a war vet.

Ryu Hayabusa was an uncommon pick on those classic rosters that were approaching 100 characters big (long before that looked like a genuine possibility) and was often touted as an NES icon (as he is even now). I think there are some 25+ year old gamers who think he has a genuine shot in Smash and others who just think he'd be cool. That's where Ryu was for all of Smash 4 speculation and base release Ultimate.

Then VGA 2018 was hyped up. Koei Tecmo said they had a special announcement there in relation to Nintendo, and that got people stirred up. I saw a good handful of threads over on /v/ around that time that suddenly were dead set that Ryu Hayabusa was going to be announced as the first DLC character in Ultimate... and then it turned out that KT's announcement was Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Ever since then, it feels like Ryu has refused to leave speculation and I genuinely blame "insiders" who are nothing more than /v/ posters at heart.

For what it's worth, I don't consider Ryu an NES icon. Ninja Gaiden spanned three games that I only heard about in my young life because they were in the back of the NES Game Atlas, a compilation strategy guide. When we got high speed internet in about 2003, I don't remember anyone ever talking about or making references to Ninja Gaiden, and really, I only remember it coming into popularity around the time of Egoraptor's "Awesome" series, which also happened to spring up around the time of the reboot Ninja Gaiden games on the original Xbox (or was it PS2...). That era of reboot Ninja Gaiden titles is when I first started hearing people buzz about it because of the brutal difficulty of the game and the ragequits induced by it, with a lot of my close friends telling me it was the first time they ever broke a controller. Ryu, or maybe Ninja Gaiden itself, feels like a forgotten relic of the NES and more of an icon of the Xbox era.

Mr. Hayabusa is free to Smash whenever he likes but I'm not gonna be happy about it if it's before Geno.

As someone who really wants Hayabusa, yes I am thinking about him more due to leaks, but he is still honestly an underrated choice. Ninja Gaiden is iconic and both the classic and modern series have done super well, not ONLY that, but he appears in other Koei series' like DoA and Warriors. He's the Terry of Koei Tecmo. If/When he gets in, he's gonna bring in a lot of content. And honestly, I think he could possibly be next, Geno could come at anytime, don't get mad at a literal icon coming in before Geno. You guys have to admit while his chances are better than ever, due to requests from people like us, he's still not as important as other characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, hold up. Just because you didn't see people "make references" to Ninja Gaiden suddenly means that the series isn't iconic? Plenty of people knew about it and loved the series, even if you personally didn't see anyone talking about it. People love the reboot series too, and just because you may have seen it talked about it more doesn't mean that the NES games are any less known or loved.

It's also pretty funny how you're using the same gatekeeping argument people use against Geno by saying that people only cared about Ninja Gaiden when some animator made a video about it. You also sound pretty petty when you say that you're not going to be happy with a character's inclusion if it's before Geno. It's not like Hayabusa would magically steal Geno's spot.

I don't wanna get too off-topic, but I have to agree to disagree on this one. Ninja Gaiden does have games on the Xbox, yes, but its laughable if you think he's more iconic on the Xbox then the NES, because the Ninja Gaiden games on the NES are the most iconic games in the entire franchise. Hayabusa, along with maybe Bill Rizer from Contra, are the last big NES icons to have yet to get included, and as such I think Hayabusa has definitely earned a spot on the roster.

Dude, Hayabusa is an icon. He has the classic trilogy on NES.

Sorry if it came off as "I don't think Ryu is an NES icon so he doesn't belong in Smash", that's not really the intention I had there, I'm just kinda sick of the justification that "Ryu is the last NES icon we need". This was the Pit argument, then the Mega Man argument, then the Simon argument, and it'll move onto whoever else if Ryu were to get in. That was my only point with whether or not I consider him an NES icon. Funny how this statement of all the things I've ever said has drawn the most contention.

You also sound pretty petty when you say that you're not going to be happy with a character's inclusion if it's before Geno. It's not like Hayabusa would magically steal Geno's spot.

So be it. Every spot that isn't Geno is a stolen spot to me. I haven't been happy with characters, even characters I've said "they'd be cool" (such as Greninja, Shulk, and Robin). Petty or not, it's how I feel and I don't care if it makes me a villain.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Why does it matter what order the character gets in if they get in? That seems superfluous.

Everyone pretty much already knows how big of a fan I am of Ninja Gaiden so I’m not going to be a broken record. However, I will say that my dad grew up on NES Ninja Gaiden and I grew up on Xbox Ninja Gaiden so the fact that he’s spanned a 20ish year gap proves his significance alone I feel. And even though he hasn’t had a game in while his relevance has kept steady and has been around even since NG3 through appearances in DoA, Musou Games, and Nioh 1 & 2. If Hayabusa ends up not coming into Smash until ****in Challenger Pack 11 I’m fine with that. Because he’s still in the game no matter the arbitrary # he is on the character select screen or website. He’s there. And the wait was worth it. And that’s how I’ll feel about Geno too.

 

[MattX20]

Why does it matter what order the character gets in if they get in? That seems superfluous.

Everyone pretty much already knows how big of a fan I am of Ninja Gaiden so I’m not going to be a broken record. However, I will say that my dad grew up on NES Ninja Gaiden and I grew up on Xbox Ninja Gaiden so the fact that he’s spanned a 20ish year gap proves his significance alone I feel. And even though he hasn’t had a game in while his relevance has kept steady and has been around even since NG3 through appearances in DoA, Musou Games, and Nioh 1 & 2. If Hayabusa ends up not coming into Smash until ****in Challenger Pack 11 I’m fine with that. Because he’s still in the game no matter the arbitrary # he is on the character select screen or website. He’s there. And the wait was worth it. And that’s how I’ll feel about Geno too.

Exactly. Hayabusa's earned a spot as far as legacy characters are concerned, much like Terry before him. I'm certain he'll be one of the last 3 if he's not FP8

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ryu's controversial because there's a lot of strong opinions on "NES Hard" and, coincidentally, Pit was often shown in the same light before he got in Smash. Games like Ninja Gaiden, Metroid, Ghouls N Ghosts, Ninja Turtles, Kid Icarus, etc are often described as NES Hard and people argue if ridiculously hard games are good or bad game design. Are hard games true tests of gaming skills or are they a way to force longevity for a game? I feel like this is why Ninja Gaiden isn't always viewed in the same light as games like Castlevania and Megaman. Like I said, Ninja Gaiden is a lot like Metroid and Kid Icarus because their impact on gaming is obvious but whether their original games are true classics or frustration fodder differs from person to person.

 

[MattX20]

Ryu's controversial because there's a lot of strong opinions on "NES Hard" and, coincidentally, Pit was often shown in the same light before he got in Smash. Games like Ninja Gaiden, Metroid, Ghouls N Ghosts, Ninja Turtles, Kid Icarus, etc are often described as NES Hard and people argue if ridiculously hard games are good or bad game design. Are hard games true tests of gaming skills or are they a way to force longevity for a game? I feel like this is why Ninja Gaiden isn't always viewed in the same light as games like Castlevania and Megaman. Like I said, Ninja Gaiden is a lot like Metroid and Kid Icarus because their impact on gaming is obvious but whether their original games are true classics or frustration fodder differs from person to person.

Yep, same can also be said for Battletoads and the Soulsborne games

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yep, same can also be said for Battletoads and the Soulsborne games

Exactly. Another problem that Ryu runs into is, again coincidentally similar to Pit, is whether or not Ryu is a big enough icon for Smash. Even if you think the original Ninja Gaiden Trilogy is classic, I've noticed another wall is hard hit when it comes to modern Ninja Gaiden. Once again, opinions are all over the place and it reminds me a lot of the debates had about Pac-Man and Megaman. "Yeah, the classics are great but the modern games make me want to brush my teeth with steel wool." Ryu often gets stuck in that quagmire too.

 

[extremeturkey]

What you have essentially done is point out what I said with different phrasing: The majority of gamers aren't up for modern politics being unnaturally injected into our entertainment medium of choice.

Modern politics have been pretty crazy as of late and mostly focuses on the things you listed, although there are many other things as well, just those seem to be in the spotlight a lot. Regardless of your stance on things, there are extremes to each side, and they have been coming more to the forefront every passing day and everyone out there seems to be demanding you take a side. The thing is, gamers don't want a part of this, but it feels as though we are being forced into it by the decisions of studios or companies that either have a side they want to push or a side they want to pander to.

They way you phrased it almost makes it seem like gamers as a whole are inherently intolerant or despise these things, but it's more that we play games to have fun and politics is just the opposite of that right now. Even if there is a political narrative in a game or that politics is a core feature of the game, there is a different between negotiating for a peace treaty between your fictional country and another fictional country and a publisher pushing pandering for a current politically charged group. There is a difference between controlling an agent and taking down a corrupt government single-handedly and being forced to take a side with real people who are very angry.

Politics in games are fantasy and generally are there to enhance the experience, while currently politics in reality ruins the experience. It's less that gamers aren't aware and more that we want our entertainment media to be left alone when other media has gone down the same path.

Whiny tripe that comes down to "woah hold on, I'm ok with warring faction politics, but brown/female/gay people are BAD POLITICS we don't want to see in our games, we only want the politics we're comfortable with, don't rock the boat"

Pandering to status quo straight white men is fine with you, as the industry has been doing for decades, but to anybody else and it makes you uncomfortable because it's not the right kind of politics for the current time, to you

Some of us aren't straight/white/male and we like seeing things that involve us. Every time we get some kind of inclusion in popular media though, people get angry about how it's "unnecessary politics"

 

[Deleted member]

Ryu's controversial because there's a lot of strong opinions on "NES Hard" and, coincidentally, Pit was often shown in the same light before he got in Smash. Games like Ninja Gaiden, Metroid, Ghouls N Ghosts, Ninja Turtles, Kid Icarus, etc are often described as NES Hard and people argue if ridiculously hard games are good or bad game design. Are hard games true tests of gaming skills or are they a way to force longevity for a game? I feel like this is why Ninja Gaiden isn't always viewed in the same light as games like Castlevania and Megaman. Like I said, Ninja Gaiden is a lot like Metroid and Kid Icarus because their impact on gaming is obvious but whether their original games are true classics or frustration fodder differs from person to person.

I kind of don't even think there's merit in putting Ninja Gaiden on the same level as Metroid. Sure, NES Metroid is a slog to get through, but it's not really difficult for the sake of being difficult. It gives you a password system so you can stop whenever you want, take a break, and come back later. Its length was padded by the mechanical limitations of not being able to provide a decent map or any kind of direction, the player had to stumble into the mission objective (especially if they didn't have the manual to help tell them what's going on) and actively plot out how they got to where they are.

Metroid's an adventure game like Zelda, but presented as a platformer. It shares a lot of problems with Zelda 1. Ninja Gaiden is just a difficult platformer that suffers mostly from purposefully bad enemy placements. I tend to look at "Nintendo hard" as a two way street. Some people will piss and moan endlessly about how they get lost in Zelda or Metroid, but that's not the game being difficult as much as it is just failure to accept that the systems are archaic and involve a little real world input, like mapping things on graph paper or taking notes... I'm making a little bit of an argument here that all the way back in 1986 Nintendo was basically producing augmented reality games. On the other hand, there are games that were either ports of arcade titles designed to rob you, like Ghouls n' Ghosts and Gradius (though the NES port of Gradius is significantly easier than the Arcade version and this held doubly true for Salamander and Gradius II), or they were following directly in the footsteps of arcade games designed to rob you. It's odd that you wouldn't lump Castlevania in with "NES hard" games, since virtually my entire life, that's the way people have described it. The aforementioned poor enemy placement, pixel perfect jumps, leaps of faith, screen wipe bosses... the list goes on, those are present in what I consider "true NES hard" games.

Regardless, I don't make these arguments to say that Ryu doesn't belong in Smash. I just don't think "he's the last NES icon" is a valid argument for inclusion when "NES icon" is about as nebulous a phrase as any.

Whiny tripe that comes down to "woah hold on, I'm ok with warring faction politics, but brown/female/gay people are BAD POLITICS we don't want to see in our games, we only want the politics we're comfortable with, don't rock the boat"

Pandering to status quo straight white men is fine with you, as the industry has been doing for decades, but to anybody else and it makes you uncomfortable because it's not the right kind of politics for the current time, to you

Some of us aren't straight/white/male and we like seeing things that involve us. Every time we get some kind of inclusion in popular media though, people get angry about how it's "unnecessary politics"

This is the Geno thread

 

[CopperKoopa]

Exactly. Another problem that Ryu runs into is, again coincidentally similar to Pit, is whether or not Ryu is a big enough icon for Smash. Even if you think the original Ninja Gaiden Trilogy is classic, I've noticed another wall is hard hit when it comes to modern Ninja Gaiden. Once again, opinions are all over the place and it reminds me a lot of the debates had about Pac-Man and Megaman. "Yeah, the classics are great but the modern games make me want to brush my teeth with steel wool." Ryu often gets stuck in that quagmire too.

You're not wrong, but you can't discredit the amount of fan devotion to the classic franchise or the amount of recognition it has received. There was a lot of love for retro NES in the noughties, and Hayabusa was right up there with Mega Man, the Belmonts, and Mario. I understand some of those old flash games and "Know your roots" t-shirts you bought at Hot Topic are nearing 20 years old now, but it still speaks to the lasting appeal of the character. Ninja Gaiden has also consistently appeared alongside Nintendo's attempts at virtual console or anything like it. The series is clearly grasping at anything to get a revival; Smash is the perfect place.

Also, in a similar comparison to Kid Icarus being "Nintendo Hard," remember that Pit came back in Brawl with only 2 games under his belt, both well over a decade old or more at that point. Ninja Gaiden can at least attest to having more references and appearances than that! I wasn't on the Ninja Gaiden train for a while myself, but now I am the more I think about how insane it would be for Sakurai to actually include all those NES greats into Smash. If he doesn't capitalize on having a game starring Mario, Mega Man, Link, Samus, Simon, Pac Man and Hayabusa right now, then what the hell else is Smash good for?

Including Hayabusa is 100% a Sakurai move. If the man can include "literal whos" like Terry and make the case that SNK is a huge legend in the industry or teach a bunch of zoomies about Castlevania (and make them eat their cries of "Simon whoooo?") in the process, he certainly can do the same for Ninja Gaiden. Whether or not you agree he's an iconic character, the game certainly deserves the attention it receives and fits right alongside pretty much everything else we've gotten in Smash before, checking almost all the same boxes series like Castlevania did.

EDIT: also @Serenade01

 

[YsDisciple]

Well now, as we find ourselves in the middle of the week (second to last week of October), let us take a speculative look at when and how we could be getting more Nintendo news in the form of a Direct.

A few posts back I recall someone pointing out that on September's Partner Showcase, at the end they didn't say anything along the lines of "stay tuned for more Partner Showcases throughout the year". I went back and watched the end of said Partner Showcase and so it was; no heads-up for future Partner Showcases. Perhaps they forgot? Perhaps September's was the last one? Only they know. However I remember it being mentioned here as well that Nintendo in past years usually presented a strong Nintendo Direct around the month of November. That got me thinking; there are quite a few things coming up on November (leading into December).

• Super Smash Bros. Ultimate North American Online Open - October: this tournament ends on November 1st
• Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity: comes out on November 20th
• Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Super Mario Bros. 35th Anniversary-themed tournament: to happen sometime around December but, when it was first advertised (in Japan) it was scheduled for sometime between November or December.

Another thing to consider is that come November we'll be in the "Holiday sales" month (especially come Black Friday). This being said, one could only wonder if Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity is indeed Nintendo's only Holiday title. Could they have another title(s) in store for the remainder of 2020. Do recall that there are still a few titles that have not had their release dates revealed (news that have quietly slipped to the dark, forgotten back of many a minds).

To sum it up, what could we make of there possibly not being a Partner Showcase this month? Things could move forward in one of three ways:

• Nintendo opts to make any remaining notable announcements via Twitter and shadowdropped game announcements on YouTube
• Nintendo presents a full length Nintendo Direct (or a General Direct Mini) on November
• We could be in for a potential news drought while Nintendo rides the end of 2020 on the sales of its latest titles

 

[Vector Victor]

I think people's issues with Ryu in Smash speculation is similar to Terry: all this praise, admiration, attention, reminiscing, support, and discussion about the characters in the Smash scene came AFTER something connected to them happened (Terry's official reveal, Ryu in that fake leak). But go a month or two and further before those events and neither character was really discussed even remotely close to the same levels as the usual characters (Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Shadow, Waluigi, Isaac, Dixie, etc). So it looks sudden and weird.

This would be like if Geno's first acknowledgement in Smash speculation was the Grinch Fake (so nothing beforehand, fanbase is comparably a nonexistent blip to other fanbases, Sakurai never mentioned him and there was no Mii costume). Then after that Fake Geno's in many discussions and seen as an obvious or expected or inevitable choice, but if you look at his full timeline im speculation, it looks like he came out of nowhere, almost like time literally skipping ahead. I think people are just confused at the sudden speculation for Ryu, where he is discussed so nonchalantly as if he was ALWAYS discussed to that level. He becomes an 'obvious choice' only until after something of any degree happens with him, but he wasn't dubbed obvious before that event.

And I don't want to knock Ryu or his fans. He's just the current example and this confusion can apply to other characters in speculation. Kind of like how Chorus Kids were barely, if at all, brought up to be added to Smash, but then Gematsu happens and out of the blue they are on everyone's prediction list, acting like they were always there from day one.

 

[Xehanort1372019]

This is actually something I feel a lot of people missed which is weird because its HUGE evidence towards Geno.

He DID get a modern redesign. Just like K. Rool before him there's design changes present in the MII COSTUME!

Its not much, but obviously his gun (which was the infamous 'pulsating rod' before) now has a more fleshed out look.
Less obvious is his torso, he has an added section to his torso for extra articulation. Originally in SMRPG his torso was split into two sections and upper chest area and his pelvis. If you look at the mii costume he now has a new middle section making his torso have 3 segments rather than 2.

Maybe disappointing if you wanted something more dramatic, but I think the mii costume is once again the ironic smoking gun for Geno's inclusion!

Your right...! I did notice the differences between Geno's artwork and the Mii costume! That's something we should add to the list! Why do I say this? well...look at this part of this video.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

I think people's issues with Ryu in Smash speculation is similar to Terry: all this praise, admiration, attention, reminiscing, support, and discussion about the characters in the Smash scene came AFTER something connected to them happened (Terry's official reveal, Ryu in that fake leak). But go a month or two and further before those events and neither character was really discussed even remotely close to the same levels as the usual characters (Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Shadow, Waluigi, Isaac, Dixie, etc). So it looks sudden and weird.

Personally I see no problem with this. The problem with Smash speculation in the first place is we are all stuck in the same bubble of characters constantly and never really consider anyone else for long periods of time. If there is a leak or something that can help the community realize, "oh ****! There are more characters out there than Geno, Doom Guy, and Dante!" it would be a great help to guide the community to other possibilites

 

[ctt4lfecw]

Your right...! I did notice the differences between Geno's artwork and the Mii costume! That's something we should add to the list! Why do I say this? well...look at this part of this video.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I never thought of things that way! Geno’s Mii costume came along in Dec’ 15. So the model for him is on the table. Here we are 5 years later and Sakurai has had plenty of time to tweak and work on him! Square probably requested Hero to be revealed first because of DQ 11 coming down the pipe.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Personally I see no problem with this. The problem with Smash speculation in the first place is we are all stuck in the same bubble of characters constantly and never really consider anyone else for long periods of time. If there is a leak or something that can help the community realize, "oh ****! There are more characters out there than Geno, Doom Guy, and Dante!" it would be a great help to guide the community to other possibilites

Conversely, I don't think there's an issue with people genuinely wanting certain characters for a long time and continuing to push for them.

That being said, I agree that people should expand their focus to more characters and series but there's also nothing wrong with lasting support and discussion surrounding that support. And it can be tiring to have the same characters rumminating within speculation without other characters getting a chance to be discussed or noticed so I get what you're saying.

 

[Dacowboykid]

do you guys think Geno would be saved for last? also, do you guys expect a character reveal for TGA?

 

[SilverSoul24]

Personally I see no problem with this. The problem with Smash speculation in the first place is we are all stuck in the same bubble of characters constantly and never really consider anyone else for long periods of time. If there is a leak or something that can help the community realize, "oh ****! There are more characters out there than Geno, Doom Guy, and Dante!" it would be a great help to guide the community to other possibilites

So much this. Easily my biggest complaint with the speculation scene, though this may because some of my most-wanted picks (cough KOS-MOS cough) have received vitriolic hatred on SmashBoards for the crime of existing outside of the pantheon of frequently-discussed newcomers. No disrespect to fans of those characters, either. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Geno and Dante (eh on Doom Slayer, don't @ me) but Smash would be boring if we only got the characters who received the most attention from speculators. Part of the reason why Joker's reveal meant so much to me was just because of how out-of-nowhere it was. I live for moments like that.

 

[7NATOR]

To be fair, at least on here there is more discussion around Characters not Popular in Speculation.

Though there's a Difference between Speculation and Predictions. alot of the time Predictions seem more similiar.

 

[Deleted member]

do you guys think Geno would be saved for last? also, do you guys expect a character reveal for TGA?

I do not expect a reveal for TGA because Nintendo pulled that trick once and they will now never do it again.

As for Geno's possible position: I do not like the idea of him being last. It was touched upon earlier in the form of asking me "why", but I've answered in the past: I'm not getting any younger. Geno is a character who should have been in for nearly 20 years in my humble opinion and his continued absence is nothing short of shameful. We have characters in Smash that at no point in history would I have ever considered viable candidates for the game and it feels like it's missing obvious characters from not only close third party titles (like Super Mario RPG), but from Nintendo's own homegrown garden. It goes from disappointing to insulting to see the likes of Rosalina, Bowser Jr and a generic Piranha Plant be added to a game that used to be billed as "Nintendo's All Stars" before a guy who is quite literally all stars.

That said, I could see him being last, the wish bringer who made every wish come true before thinking of himself... But Nintendo is so deaf to the other "perfect" ways to present him, I would hope they wouldn't pick the worst "perfect" way to present him. If he's in, he's in and that's great but I'd like to still have color to my hair and feeling in my hands when he gets in.

 

[Dukefire]

Nintendo could go either way if they want to reveal another character at the TGA event or just on their terms.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

do you guys think Geno would be saved for last? also, do you guys expect a character reveal for TGA?

Geno being saved for last, wouldn’t surprise me if it went that way. I don’t care, as long as he gets in.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

do you guys think Geno would be saved for last? also, do you guys expect a character reveal for TGA?

The timeline is CLOSE but it’s definitely up in the air right now. If we’re judging by the trend of both last pass and this pass so far, last pass had characters every Twoish months. Last pass was PP in February, Joker in April, Hero almost at 2 1/2 months at July, Banjo at 1 1/2 months at September, Terry in November, and then finally Byleth at the end of January. This pass has been Min-Min in June, and then Steve in October, which is just about a 3 month gap. We’re likely to get the next character in Mid-Late January but POSSIBLY February. The timeline for Joker was much looser so it makes more sense to announce CP8 at TGA then it was Joker. However, the fact that TGA was on the 6th and Smash released the 7th may have been part of the reason for the reveal but who knows?

I don’t believe people when they said “Joker was a last minute addition to the Game Awards” because the amount of voice acting that went into that trailer, including a direct reference to TGA, and the lights cutting out when and how they did had to be planned WELL in advance. If there is a Smash announcement at TGA it’s probably locked in right now. I dunno why Byleth wasn’t shown last year but eh.

 

[MisterMike]

Ryu's controversial because there's a lot of strong opinions on "NES Hard" and, coincidentally, Pit was often shown in the same light before he got in Smash. Games like Ninja Gaiden, Metroid, Ghouls N Ghosts, Ninja Turtles, Kid Icarus, etc are often described as NES Hard and people argue if ridiculously hard games are good or bad game design. Are hard games true tests of gaming skills or are they a way to force longevity for a game? I feel like this is why Ninja Gaiden isn't always viewed in the same light as games like Castlevania and Megaman. Like I said, Ninja Gaiden is a lot like Metroid and Kid Icarus because their impact on gaming is obvious but whether their original games are true classics or frustration fodder differs from person to person.

The way I see it, if a game's hard and I can beat it it's fair, but if it's hard and I can't beat it it's not fair.

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

Did I... Did I play the same “Ninja Gaiden” as the rest of you? I tried it on Switch online because people here kept hyping up this “classic game” and I found it be an unplayable, glitchy mess that hardly warrants any kind of iconic status.

To be clear it wasn’t the difficulty that I found frustrating. I beat Mario Lost Levels and Celeste, so I can handle difficulty. But when I jump over an obstacle and Generic Ninja dude dies anyway, or when I’m dying because the mechanic to climb ladders to buggy: I don’t call that difficult I call it crap game design.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Did I... Did I play the same “Ninja Gaiden” as the rest of you? I tried it on Switch online because people here kept hyping up this “classic game” and I found it be an unplayable, glitchy mess that hardly warrants any kind of iconic status.

To be clear it wasn’t the difficulty that I found frustrating. I beat Mario Lost Levels and Celeste, so I can handle difficulty. But when I jump over an obstacle and Generic Ninja dude dies anyway, or when I’m dying because the mechanic to climb ladders to buggy: I don’t call that difficult I call it crap game design.

Well Ninja Gaiden is a lot more than one game on the NES. It has lots of games, even on modern consoles. I bring this up because I'm not sure if you're judging the entire franchise based on one game, or are solely judging the NES game. If it's the latter, that's fair then, but I'd hope one game wouldn't soil your entire experience with the franchise.

Take Sonic 1 for example. The first Sonic the Hedgehog SUCKED in my opinion and was filled with tedious level designs that punish you for playing the game correctly (going fast). But Sonic 2 and 3 ABSOLUTELY improved on the original formula.

If you're interested, maybe other Ninja Gaiden games may catch your attention.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Did I... Did I play the same “Ninja Gaiden” as the rest of you? I tried it on Switch online because people here kept hyping up this “classic game” and I found it be an unplayable, glitchy mess that hardly warrants any kind of iconic status.

To be clear it wasn’t the difficulty that I found frustrating. I beat Mario Lost Levels and Celeste, so I can handle difficulty. But when I jump over an obstacle and Generic Ninja dude dies anyway, or when I’m dying because the mechanic to climb ladders to buggy: I don’t call that difficult I call it crap game design.

It just sounds like it’s not your kind of game because I’ve never found the game glitchy at all. I haven’t played the Switch Online version because I’ve played it on other outlets all my life but if I could beat it when I was 7(ish) in 2004 then I’m pretty sure anyone can beat it.

I assume the part you’re talking about is the one at 4:34 in this video.

Most games condition you that once you get to the top of the ladder you just climb up but NG doesn’t treat it that way.

Edit: also, yeah, as someone pointed out above, like Sonic 1 or Crash 1 or even Mario 64 to some, NG1 is the weakest of the games.

 

[pinshadow]

Ninja Gaiden is... fine? I just don't think it's anything remarkable and that even games like Castlevania 1 and the first few Mega Man's have aged better, I really don't understand putting the franchises on the same level, especially when both of those franchises continued improving and evolving through the SNES and onward sticking moooostly with Nintendo while Ninja Gaiden did basically nothing for a decade after the NES before finally getting it's reboot... that along with it's sequel was originally an Xbox exclusive, which is what it's primarily associated with, and has never even been on a Nintendo console save for the 3rd game which seems to be the one people don't like. I'm fine with Ryu in Smash but I've never understood putting him on the same tier of Simon or Mega Man, or Bomberman for that matter.

 

[Hollowleggend]

if you could pick a video game voice actor to voice Geno in Smash who would it be

 

[ctt4lfecw]

I always hear Batman TAS Robin when I read Geno’s dialogue.

 

[SilverSoul24]

if you could pick a video game voice actor to voice Geno in Smash who would it be

Jon St. John, easily. A man with enough range to pull off Duke Nukem and Big the Cat would do Geno justice.