Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Enigma735]

Honestly, I'm not really a firm believer of Voice Theory. It kinda feels like Roster Theory in that it has to end perfectly, which Sakurai has shown to never really care about. I think FP1 ending the way it did was a coincidence at best. And even if this theory is real, It still doesn't really limit itself to that much in terms of who these remaining characters are.

 

[ForsakenM]

Sorry I don't want to develop a flame war but I really hate this sentiment,

Spoiler: Tangent

Especially the hypocrisy of it. The idea that politics shouldn't be in video games is itself a political opinion, and it's even worse if you consider video games art, as I do. Could you imagine if Bioshock didn't have a political message? It'd be an infinitely worse game.

You can disagree with a game's politics but to say they shouldn't have politics is rubbish that is used to stifle creativity. People need to realize that media isn't becoming more political, it's just that you're becoming more political and now you're able to see things that you weren't able to as a kid. Not every game is made for you, so instead of using this Weasley rhetoric about wanting politics out of video games, just don't buy games with such "Forced Politics" or just be honest about why you dislike their political message or how they're delivering it. Also, I don't buy this idea that you're not taking a strict side since it's obvious you cared enough to complain about it on an internet forum.

This seems like yet another case of missing the point or accidental strawmanning that I see all the time with this argument.

See, gamers don't want politics to be removed gaming, else we would lose stuff like what you said with Bioshock or Civilization which is all about politics, or games with deeper meanings.

When gamers say this, it's when companies take the step too far and inject politics, and usually modern ones, into something that didn't need them. For a gaming example and for an extreme hypothetical case, this would be like a MLP game that plays just like you would expect a children's game to play suddenly having stuff about the Proud Boys or some **** show up in there. Pretty sure no one would have asked for that in their children's game. This is completely different from a game built from the ground up and advertised as having a political narrative.

As far as I can tell, gamers just wanna game, but nowadays companies are trying to stay relevant by injecting modern politics into their advertising and their product. Thus Ruffy has a point here: why would companies about gaming push politics so hard on gamers, almost as if they are pushing something besides games onto us?

I have various answers, but there is one simple truth: it's all about marketing.

 

[Firox]

This seems like yet another case of missing the point or accidental strawmanning that I see all the time with this argument.

See, gamers don't want politics to be removed gaming, else we would lose stuff like what you said with Bioshock or Civilization which is all about politics, or games with deeper meanings.

When gamers say this, it's when companies take the step too far and inject politics, and usually modern ones, into something that didn't need them. For a gaming example and for an extreme hypothetical case, this would be like a MLP game that plays just like you would expect a children's game to play suddenly having stuff about the Proud Boys or some **** show up in there. Pretty sure no one would have asked for that in their children's game. This is completely different from a game built from the ground up and advertised as having a political narrative.

As far as I can tell, gamers just wanna game, but nowadays companies are trying to stay relevant by injecting modern politics into their advertising and their product. Thus Ruffy has a point here: why would companies about gaming push politics so hard on gamers, almost as if they are pushing something besides games onto us?

I have various answers, but there is one simple truth: it's all about marketing.

Yeah, this is what I meant about some companies trying to preach to the player with real world politics. That kind of practice is garbage in my opinion because it's heavily divisive and frankly takes away from the immersion of the game itself. There's plenty of other sources of indoctrination in the world without it having to invade one of my favorite forms of escapism.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

Yes, for numerous reasons:

• Hero was released right at the tail end of July, revealing that Geno's costume was absent despite it being the perfect time to include it. This is notable because SquareEnix is the only company to have their content for Smash released entirely on their own. In other words, SquareEnix costumes have only been released alongside SquareEnix characters, with no other costumes from other companies releasing alongside them. Combine this with Vol.2 of the Fighters Pass being a thing, as well as the very likely scenario of all of the third-party Smash 4 Mii Costumes returning by the end of this game's DLC cycle, and it's easy to conclude that we're likely to get another SquareEnix-owned character as DLC, if not Geno specifically.
• We know that talks for Banjo began at E3 2018 thanks to an interview by gameindustry.biz with current Rare Studios head Craig Duncan, which would make the turnaround time for Banjo about 1 year and 3 months. While the timeline may have been extended due to the China Virus or, as Sakurai has professed, general development complications regarding Min Min and Steve's gimmicks, it's not hard to imagine that, should a character have been in development since E3 2019, they most likely would've been a good way done by or slightly after E3 2020.
• Both the Mii Costume list and the music takedowns first popped up in July, shortly after E3. The list managed to correctly call all of Banjo's Mii Costumes sans... well, Sans, whereas the music takedowns were done by Nintendo on two songs they don't technically own, a situation which has happened twice prior regarding Banjo and Sans, for the two songs that would fit Geno best should be be included. While their legitimacy is still hotly debated by some, both of these rumors have aspects to them that give them some credibility, and them popping up in the same general timeframe is somewhat suspect.
• There is currently a well-established pattern people have taken notice of, wherein DLC fighters are released around the time of each new amiibo wave. This pattern has been almost completely consistent with each DLC fighter, with the sole exception to this being Min Min. Back in April of this year, there was supposed to be an amiibo wave released, but it was delayed. With the delay of the amiibo wave in April, it can be inferred that Min Min was supposed to have been released that month. This would make sense given that her un-reveal back in March, which was weird even by Smash standards. It's possible that she was supposed to have been be fully revealed in March for an April release, however complications arose that necessitated delays. That would've made both Steve and CP8 E3 reveals, given how E3 2018 and E3 2019 both revealed two characters. And if every E3 since 2018 has brought with it a character who is highly requested by core Smash fans, then it stands to reason that CP8 was that highly requested fan favorite character.
• According to Grant Kirkhope, Nintendo themselves were caught off guard by how big the reaction to Banjo in Smash was. And if the fans were that estatic over a character reveal like that, then it's safe to assume that that excitement translated into a ton of sales for both Vol.1 and Banjo's individual Challenger Pack. As such, it's not a stretch to imagine that, prior to E3 2020's cancelling, Nintendo may have wanted to make that lightning strike again next year by choosing another highly requested fan favorite character.

Talkin' about anime, bruv.
What are some of your favorites?

Thanks Mister Mike, very well put! Makes me laugh, how was Nintendo caught off guard by Banjo’s reaction? We remember who Banjo is! If it wasn’t for him, fighters pass would be a let down.

 

[axel_]

I'd just like to add that without any form of in-game politics, we wouldn't have many Fire Emblem games since almost every one of them has to do with international political disputes. Politics in games isn't inherently bad as long as they pertain to the IN-UNIVERSE dynamic and aren't trying to preach real world politics to the player. One of my favorite RPG's ever was FFX and that game had TONS of pseudo-religious theocratic politics in play with the church of Yevon but it was all fictional and I knew that. It wasn't like I interpreted it as some kind of attack on real world religion or an influence for theocratic government or anything.

This seems like yet another case of missing the point or accidental strawmanning that I see all the time with this argument.

See, gamers don't want politics to be removed gaming, else we would lose stuff like what you said with Bioshock or Civilization which is all about politics, or games with deeper meanings.

When gamers say this, it's when companies take the step too far and inject politics, and usually modern ones, into something that didn't need them. For a gaming example and for an extreme hypothetical case, this would be like a MLP game that plays just like you would expect a children's game to play suddenly having stuff about the Proud Boys or some **** show up in there. Pretty sure no one would have asked for that in their children's game. This is completely different from a game built from the ground up and advertised as having a political narrative.

As far as I can tell, gamers just wanna game, but nowadays companies are trying to stay relevant by injecting modern politics into their advertising and their product. Thus Ruffy has a point here: why would companies about gaming push politics so hard on gamers, almost as if they are pushing something besides games onto us?

I have various answers, but there is one simple truth: it's all about marketing.

...Geno?

 

[Loliko YnT]

...Geno?

Geno.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[MattX20]

If we do get a Partner Showcase, it will most likely happen this week since next week is the last week of the month.

 

[extremeturkey]

Honestly people only start whining about politics when it involves either representation of or discrimination against minorities, LGBT people, or women.

Any other kind of politics and gamers sit there placidly soaking it up. Not even AWARE that they're watching politics in their game.

 

[Firox]

...Geno?

Yes, Geno. He is a guardian of Star Road that was appointed by the Higher Authority. When the terrorist forces of Smithy invaded the sovereignty of Star Road, Geno was dispatched to the foreign soil of Mushroom Kingdom to engage the enemy. There, he taught the indigenous people about the need for wishes and the importance of preserving the Star Pieces. By gaining their support, he was able to unite them with the war lord Bowser's militia and launched a campaign to destroy the armies of Smithy.....anyone see what I did here?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Voice theory, huh? Alright... Let's analyze this.

Allegedly 4 packs left but 5 voice "spots" left. A pretty simple answer to this is that one of the characters has a gender swap or a notable ALT change. Based on past precedent, it's likely an ALT change. Why? Let me map out the first two seasons of DLC:

Smash 4 had 7 DLC characters but, coincidentally enough, 6 Mii costume waves and 7 stages that could be downloaded for both versions of the game. If this sounds weirdly familiar, this is because this is the direction Season 2 is currently going because we got a bonus stage so, at the very least, Season 2 will end with 7 new stages and 6 Mii costume waves. Smash 4 was 7 characters, 7 stages, but 6 Mii costume waves because Mewtwo was a bonus.

The Fighter's Pass technically had 6 characters, 5 stages, and 5 Mii costume waves. Plant was a bonus so this makes sense. Now let's go back...

If we eliminate bonuses, we get 6 characters for Smash 4 DLC and 5 for the Fighter's Pass. Now let's break it down by all the characters so:

-Lucas: no ALTs
-Roy: no ALTs
-Ryu: no ALTs
-Cloud: ALT
-Corrin: gender swap ALT
-Bayonetta: ALT

-Joker: ALT
-Hero: multiple ALTs
-Banjo: no ALTs
-Terry: no ALTs
-Byleth: gender swap ALT

-Min Min: no ALT
-Steve: multiple ALTs, gender swap ALT

If you look at this overview, you'll notice that each wave has had an exclusively female character, a character with a gender swap, and a character with a notable ALT change. Season 2 has already had their exclusively female character (Min Min) and a gender swap character (Steve) so this heavily suggests that this mystery character is a notable costume change that brings along differences in sound effects or voice clips. Let's go into this.

In Smash 4, Cloud had a notable ALT change but it didn't bring along new sounds. Bayonetta also had a notable ALT change and a big thing that this brings is that Bayonetta can speak Japanese in one ALT but not the other . In Ultimate, Joker has his "Notice Me Senpai" ALT but, like Cloud, brings no new voice clips or sound effects. Hero is obviously the most radical ALT character we've had since Bowser Jr and every ALT has different voice clips. Going back to our mystery character, we can conclude that the character has different voice clips for some reason.

Based on what we've seen so far, if characters don't have gender swaps but get different voice clips, it's because the ALTs either turn the character into another character that's extremely similar or change them into a younger/older version of the character. I think this is the angle that people should consider when considering voice theory. Season 2 already has an exclusively female character and a gender swap character so this suggests that this character is male but has a version of themselves or a similar compatriot noteworthy enough to include as an ALT.

TLDR version:

-Mystery character is most likely male based on past precedent.

-Odds of it being a gender swap character are very low based on past precedent.

-Most likely explanation is older/younger version of character or a character that could be effortlessly swapped out for them like in the case of Hero, Bowser Jr, or Olimar.

These characters can share a character space with others because its a non-issue. Olimar and Alph, for example, fight canonically the same and have similar personalities. The Heroes are blank avatars so there's no real personality differences there either in the context of Smash. The Koopalings all have very unique personalities but that doesn't matter because it's the Klown Kart the does a vast majority of the fighting. This also why all these characters share victory screens and taunts. Based on this, this mystery character will likely be the same.

Disclaimer: this all is going off the assumption that these last four packs are literally it as far as characters go. Another exceedingly simple explanation is that there's 5 characters left but one that's not not included in a pack but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[CannonStreak]

What is this voice theory I hear about? Does it include Geno?

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I read on other forums, criticism that FP1 was too white male centric and wanted more diversity. I don’t think that Nintendo Japan heards that complains but is curious that so far the fighters we have on FP2 are a female (Min Min, theorically she resembles Chinese/Asian culture ), and black male/white female (Steve/Alex). So, I have expectation that voice theory leads us to another dual gender character.

 

[JoscarGamma]

View attachment 289735

Voice theory, huh? Alright... Let's analyze this.

Allegedly 4 packs left but 5 voice "spots" left. A pretty simple answer to this is that one of the characters has a gender swap or a notable ALT change. Based on past precedent, it's likely an ALT change. Why? Let me map out the first two seasons of DLC:

Smash 4 had 7 DLC characters but, coincidentally enough, 6 Mii costume waves and 7 stages that could be downloaded for both versions of the game. If this sounds weirdly familiar, this is because this is the direction Season 2 is currently going because we got a bonus stage so, at the very least, Season 2 will end with 7 new stages and 6 Mii costume waves. Smash 4 was 7 characters, 7 stages, but 6 Mii costume waves because Mewtwo was a bonus.

The Fighter's Pass technically had 6 characters, 5 stages, and 5 Mii costume waves. Plant was a bonus so this makes sense. Now let's go back...

If we eliminate bonuses, we get 6 characters for Smash 4 DLC and 5 for the Fighter's Pass. Now let's break it down by all the characters so:

-Lucas: no ALTs
-Roy: no ALTs
-Ryu: no ALTs
-Cloud: ALT
-Corrin: gender swap ALT
-Bayonetta: ALT

-Joker: ALT
-Hero: multiple ALTs
-Banjo: no ALTs
-Terry: no ALTs
-Byleth: gender swap ALT

-Min Min: no ALT
-Steve: multiple ALTs, gender swap ALT

If you look at this overview, you'll notice that each wave has had an exclusively female character, a character with a gender swap, and a character with a notable ALT change. Season 2 has already had their exclusively female character (Min Min) and a gender swap character (Steve) so this heavily suggests that this mystery character is a notable costume change that brings along differences in sound effects or voice clips. Let's go into this.

In Smash 4, Cloud had a notable ALT change but it didn't bring along new sounds. Bayonetta also had a notable ALT change and a big thing that this brings is that Bayonetta can speak Japanese in one ALT but not the other . In Ultimate, Joker has his "Notice Me Senpai" ALT but, like Cloud, brings no new voice clips or sound effects. Hero is obviously the most radical ALT character we've had since Bowser Jr and every ALT has different voice clips. Going back to our mystery character, we can conclude that the character has different voice clips for some reason.

Based on what we've seen so far, if characters don't have gender swaps but get different voice clips, it's because the ALTs either turn the character into another character that's extremely similar or change them into a younger/older version of the character. I think this is the angle that people should consider when considering voice theory. Season 2 already has an exclusively female character and a gender swap character so this suggests that this character is male but has a version of themselves or a similar compatriot noteworthy enough to include as an ALT.

TLDR version:

-Mystery character is most likely male based on past precedent.

-Odds of it being a gender swap character are very low based on past precedent.

-Most likely explanation is older/younger version of character or a character that could be effortlessly swapped out for them like in the case of Hero, Bowser Jr, or Olimar.

These characters can share a character space with others because its a non-issue. Olimar and Alph, for example, fight canonically the same and have similar personalities. The Heroes are blank avatars so there's no real personality differences there either in the context of Smash. The Koopalings all have very unique personalities but that doesn't matter because it's the Klown Kart the does a vast majority of the fighting. This also why all these characters share victory screens and taunts. Based on this, this mystery character will likely be the same.

Disclaimer: this all is going off the assumption that these last four packs are literally it as far as characters go. Another exceedingly simple explanation is that there's 5 characters left but one that's not not included in a pack but that's a whole other can of worms.

My guess would be Dante and Virgil. Crash and Coco apparently have gameplay differences, not sure about Lloyd and who he could be swapped with (I've never played Tales of and I can't remember the female characters name that gets brought up).

So unless its Mallow/Geno or someone with Ryu H. (I haven't played his game either), it sounds to me that Dante and Virgil would be the likely candidates.

 

[MattX20]

What is this voice theory I hear about? Does it include Geno?

Voice theory is covered in the newest video from Papagenos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQBhual9KY

 

[SNEKeater]

My guess would be Dante and Virgil. Crash and Coco apparently have gameplay differences, not sure about Lloyd and who he could be swapped with (I've never played Tales of and I can't remember the female characters name that gets brought up).

So unless its Mallow/Geno or someone with Ryu H. (I haven't played his game either), it sounds to me that Dante and Virgil would be the likely candidates.

If Crash and Coco have gameplay differences, which isn't really the case (at least in the N. Sane Trilogy, haven't played Crash 4 yet), there's absolutely no scenario where Vergil would be an alt of Dante. Like, it makes 0 sense no matter how you see it.

They fight very differently, Vergil uses a katana while Dante uses a 'regular' sword, a main thing of Vergil is summoning magic swords, something that Dante doesn't do. Vergil doesn't use guns while Dante uses shotguns, bazookas, and of course, his signature guns. Dante has 4 styles while Vergil doesn't. And so on.

I mean they could technically make Vergil an alt or an echo, but that would be like Geno being an alt/echo of Mario. It's not a Dixie Kong or Dark Samus situation, where you can somewhat understand why said characters aren't completely unique. Vergil should be an unique fighter or nothing, otherwise it wouldn't be Vergil. And obviously they would pick Dante first, so Vergil has like 0,000001% chances.

 

[CannonStreak]

Voice theory is covered in the newest video from Papagenos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQBhual9KY

Ah, I see. Still, how does this affect Geno’s chances?

 

[Fatmanonice]

What is this voice theory I hear about? Does it include Geno?

There's currently 5 open spaces on the voice clips selection screen in Ultimate. Last year around this time, there were 3 after Banjo and some people were able to use this to correctly predict the last character would have a notable ALT with different voice clips. Now it's a similar situation where there's 5 spots but supposedly only 4 slots left. People are now playing around with this idea.

In regards to Geno, SMRPG has very distinct sound effects but Geno doesn't have a voice and I seriously doubt that they're going to give him one. That's another point of interest in all of this. In the voice menu, they only include characters that have a "voice" so characters like Samus, Mr. Game and Watch, Villager, and Isabelle are absent. This is also why Steve is missing too. As you can see, characters without voices are very uncommon but it's a fairly safe assumption that a character will get one. As I said in my last post, there's several different angles "voice theory" can be approached.

 

[CannonStreak]

I see. Well, I still think Geno would have a voice if he is in.

If Geno does come with two voices, though, I bet the other would be for Mallow, who would be a partner for Geno. Just kidding around there.

 

[Vector Victor]

So basically, characters get separate voice slots if all their total voice clips can't be accessed from one character pick. So gender alts are split in their voice listing because you wouldn't be able to hear the one gender voices at any time when you pick the other gender. This applies to voices character alts like Hero. Picking Luminary means you won't hear Erdrick's voices, so they each get their own voice slot. Multiple characters in one like Banjo-Kazooie share a voice slot since regardless of what alt of them you pick, you will always be able to hear their clips.

So this theory implies that one of the unknown fighter pass characters will have an alt that has their own voice clips, assuming the rest have voices. If one character is silent like Steve, then there would be an extra voice slot opening, so another character could get an alt, or the first character gets more than one a la Hero.

This could also imply a bonus character behind the scenes if the pass characters are either silent or have one voice set.

 

[HudU]

Im afraid what this means for Geno. Game and Watch and other characters don't have voices, and I doubt Geno will have any sound effects or a voice in general. We could get 2 characters with 2 voices each, meaning Geno or a non voiced character would still be in the running, or maybe Geno could come as a bonus character, but if not, I don't know what more else could point to him.

-Just to be clear- I really hope im wrong about this, and I hope he's a character. He's always been my #1.

 

[Lyncario]

My guess would be Dante and Virgil. Crash and Coco apparently have gameplay differences, not sure about Lloyd and who he could be swapped with (I've never played Tales of and I can't remember the female characters name that gets brought up).

So unless its Mallow/Geno or someone with Ryu H. (I haven't played his game either), it sounds to me that Dante and Virgil would be the likely candidates.

Nah, Dante and Vergil fight so differently that there's no way Sakurai could even think about making Vergil an alt for Dante. If we stay on Dante tho, he could have his DMC3 and DMC5 designs as alts(or really any 2 of his designs), with different voices because he's way older in 5 (like Ike has different voices depending on if you choose a costume based on his PoR or RD design).

Edit: Also, the 2 voices files wouldn't be Geno and Mallow, as other 2 in 1 characters share voice files, like Rosalina and Luma, meaning that the 2 voices in 1 would also not be Rex and Pyra/Mythra.

 

[Snoop_nogg]

Geno talks plenty in SMRPG, I couldn't imagine him not having at least a few lines.

 

[MattX20]

Geno talks a lot in Super Mario RPG, he's not a mute character. All the Mario characters apart from Piranha Plant had voice clips of some kind.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t see why Geno wouldn’t have a voice despite having a lot of dialogue even in Super Mario Kun, he shout out his attacks. Idk that we may still have room for a voiceless character but if the rest of the fighters have voices and if Geno wouldn’t have a voice, I don’t think that would bode well...

 

[Deleted member]

As a theory based on "we have to fill these blanks in on this UI element", it's already bull****. We will clearly have to learn the lesson that filling out the UI means nothing to Smash a thousand times.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

View attachment 289735

Voice theory, huh? Alright... Let's analyze this.

Allegedly 4 packs left but 5 voice "spots" left. A pretty simple answer to this is that one of the characters has a gender swap or a notable ALT change. Based on past precedent, it's likely an ALT change. Why? Let me map out the first two seasons of DLC:

Smash 4 had 7 DLC characters but, coincidentally enough, 6 Mii costume waves and 7 stages that could be downloaded for both versions of the game. If this sounds weirdly familiar, this is because this is the direction Season 2 is currently going because we got a bonus stage so, at the very least, Season 2 will end with 7 new stages and 6 Mii costume waves. Smash 4 was 7 characters, 7 stages, but 6 Mii costume waves because Mewtwo was a bonus.

The Fighter's Pass technically had 6 characters, 5 stages, and 5 Mii costume waves. Plant was a bonus so this makes sense. Now let's go back...

If we eliminate bonuses, we get 6 characters for Smash 4 DLC and 5 for the Fighter's Pass. Now let's break it down by all the characters so:

-Lucas: no ALTs
-Roy: no ALTs
-Ryu: no ALTs
-Cloud: ALT
-Corrin: gender swap ALT
-Bayonetta: ALT

-Joker: ALT
-Hero: multiple ALTs
-Banjo: no ALTs
-Terry: no ALTs
-Byleth: gender swap ALT

-Min Min: no ALT
-Steve: multiple ALTs, gender swap ALT

If you look at this overview, you'll notice that each wave has had an exclusively female character, a character with a gender swap, and a character with a notable ALT change. Season 2 has already had their exclusively female character (Min Min) and a gender swap character (Steve) so this heavily suggests that this mystery character is a notable costume change that brings along differences in sound effects or voice clips. Let's go into this.

In Smash 4, Cloud had a notable ALT change but it didn't bring along new sounds. Bayonetta also had a notable ALT change and a big thing that this brings is that Bayonetta can speak Japanese in one ALT but not the other . In Ultimate, Joker has his "Notice Me Senpai" ALT but, like Cloud, brings no new voice clips or sound effects. Hero is obviously the most radical ALT character we've had since Bowser Jr and every ALT has different voice clips. Going back to our mystery character, we can conclude that the character has different voice clips for some reason.

Based on what we've seen so far, if characters don't have gender swaps but get different voice clips, it's because the ALTs either turn the character into another character that's extremely similar or change them into a younger/older version of the character. I think this is the angle that people should consider when considering voice theory. Season 2 already has an exclusively female character and a gender swap character so this suggests that this character is male but has a version of themselves or a similar compatriot noteworthy enough to include as an ALT.

TLDR version:

-Mystery character is most likely male based on past precedent.

-Odds of it being a gender swap character are very low based on past precedent.

-Most likely explanation is older/younger version of character or a character that could be effortlessly swapped out for them like in the case of Hero, Bowser Jr, or Olimar.

These characters can share a character space with others because its a non-issue. Olimar and Alph, for example, fight canonically the same and have similar personalities. The Heroes are blank avatars so there's no real personality differences there either in the context of Smash. The Koopalings all have very unique personalities but that doesn't matter because it's the Klown Kart the does a vast majority of the fighting. This also why all these characters share victory screens and taunts. Based on this, this mystery character will likely be the same.

Disclaimer: this all is going off the assumption that these last four packs are literally it as far as characters go. Another exceedingly simple explanation is that there's 5 characters left but one that's not not included in a pack but that's a whole other can of worms.

I think i know someone who fits the male past/present alts criteria...

Please, let a man dream....

 

[7NATOR]

I Believe the Voice Theory is based on actual Data in the Game's Files, not just UI Placement

 

[MisterMike]

I think i know someone who fits the male past/present alts criteria...

View attachment 289746
Please, let a man dream....

I don't think Phoenix's past self would be able to make an appearance, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure Sakurai said no anime characters.

Spoiler

 

[Fatmanonice]

There's a lot of complications with this:

-There is the possibility that one of the last characters is silent.

-A gender swap character is very unlikely because Smash 4's DLC only had one, the Fighter's Pass only had one, and Season 2 has already has one. Like silent characters, gender swap characters are fairly rare. Wii Fit, Robin, Corrin, Inkling, and Byleth are the only ones that can talk that have totally different voice clips and animations. As you can see, all the gender swap characters with these characters have been avatars. Wendy with Bowser Jr is the only exception but, as I explained in an earlier post, the differences in animations including the victory screen are incredibly minor because the Klown Kart is the actual fighter.

-The other ALT characters with voice changes are Ike, Hero, and Bayonetta. Like Bowser Jr, these characters keep the same animations and merely have different voice clips. This said, non-gender swap characters with different voice clips but the same animations are even more rare. Ike and Bayonetta ALTs only exist because of technicalities anyways because Ike is simply having both depictions of Ike and Bayo is because certain lines, for whatever reason, weren't recorded in Japanese. This said, Bowser Jr and Hero are pretty much it when it comes to ALT swaps without significant animation changes, making this something even more rare.

This all said, if it's one character with two distinct ALTs, they have to thread a very specific needle: a character that alternative forms that warrants voice changes but doesn't have significantly different animations and couldn't be justified as an echo... Honestly, Occam's Razor suggests that Season 2 simply has 5 characters left but one's not getting a pack but that's just me.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

Let's skip forward to next year... imagine this: The next 3 fighters were already revealed (maybe Crash, Phoenix and Ryu) - none of them are Geno... The whole autumn 2021 there are no new news regarding Smash Bros., the drought and anticipation is nearly unbearable without knowing the final character. The whole thread begins sweating... is this the end? Almost 20 years of fighting & wishing... was it all for nothing?

At the first December day, finally there is an announcement: The final Super Smash Bros. Ultimate presentation will take place on December 8th 2021 (a Wednesday). Everyone is hyped again, the last character will be revealed, who could it be, is there a chance? Still more than one week of waiting!? Speculation is at an all-time high again and people begin theorizing wether there might be more than one character reveal since Nintendo didn't specify that there is only one character shown like they normally do + it's unusal for Nintendo to announce a presenation one week in advance.

Finally, the most anticipated presentation of all time begins... Masahiro Sakurai is seen and starts by saying: "Well, this is really the home stretch, isn't it? Let's hope, I can grant one final wish!"... a countdown begins... 10... 9... 8... (....) 1... 0... the screen goes black and a trailer starts.... The playroom from Smash Bros. 64 can be seen, where everything began... Mario, Yoshi and other figures are pulled out of the toy box in the room and are awakened... once everyone is outside the box, the camera zooms one last time to the toy box, which seems to be sparkling.... you can hear a soft and calm music in the background:

Master Hand grabs into the box and pulls out a wodden doll: It's ♡♪!? - Geno Awakens! All the toys which are now alive battle against each other and Geno gets pushed off the top of the blast zone into outer space, where he ultimately lands on a blue, moonlike area. It's star hill, where the wishes of characters from the earth can be granted. In a cinematic cutscene Geno looks around and finds 4 green stars scattered around the hill, which seem to be wish stars. While Geno begins going towards one of the stars, you can also hear the star hill music in the backgroud:

Geno looks at one of the wishes, apparently written from Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong.... the screen gets blurry and suddenly Dixie Kong appears and is revealed as a Diddy echo.

Geno looks around and finds another wish star... it looks like this one is from Sonic.... the screen gets dark... then it gets lighter again, however a dark shadow remains in the background... the camera zooms in and slowly you can make out the silhouette: It is Shadow the Hedgehog as a Sonic echo!

Geno finds another wish star on star hill (which serves as his stage in Smash), this time from Mario, Luigi & Wario: It seems like one person is missing.... an assist trophy appears... the shell of the assist trophy slowly begins to vanish and Waluigi jumps out of his cage - finally the long wait is over and he is part of Smash Bros.!

There seems to be one final wish in the middle of star hill... a big wish star with the Smash logo in the middle.... now all the other characters are also gathered around this star and watch Geno as he goes closer to the wish - once he touches the star, the Smash Logo begins to get bigger until it fills all of the screen... then everything gets dark and you hear a deep, mysterious voice in the background... small traces of blue and purple are visible... one wing appears... another wing appears... the very final character of the game finally shows his face... it is Tabuu from Smash Bros. Brawl, the first Smash-original fighter!

Geno grants wishes! The epic finale is over and the incredible last trailer finally came to an end. Masahiro Sakurai can be seen with a special artwork hanging in the background, where Geno, Dixie, Shadow, Waluigi and Tabuu can be seen. Sakurai says: "Well, how did you like the trailer? Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is a game where wishes become true." Sakurai shortly explains Geno's moveset and then adds that Geno as well as both of the echo fighters (Sonic and Dixie) will be released on Tuesday, December 21th - he adds that the players should see it as a christmas gift, which was granted by Geno himself. Buyers of the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 will receive both Dixie as well as Shadow as a free gift, those who didn't buy the pass will have to pay 4.99 $ for both echo characters together.

Then he also shortly goes over Waluigi and Tabuu - Waluigi will be released in January 2022 and Tabuu as the final character in February 2022. They can be purchased together for 8.99 $ or individually for 4.99 $ each. Additionally, a Tabuu subspace emmisary stage will be released in February as the last stage of the game as a free download for everyone!

Finally, Masahiro Sakurai thanks all the players for playing Smash Bros. Ultimate, he lists some record breaking stats about the game which will probably never be broken and he sadly announces is retirement from the Smash Bros. series. He feels like his work is done and with Geno + 4 Bonus fighters (2 echos, 2 newly designed characters) he delivered the perfect send-off for the greatest crossover of all time.

 

[YsDisciple]

View attachment 289735

Voice theory, huh? Alright... Let's analyze this.

Allegedly 4 packs left but 5 voice "spots" left. A pretty simple answer to this is that one of the characters has a gender swap or a notable ALT change. Based on past precedent, it's likely an ALT change. Why? Let me map out the first two seasons of DLC:

Smash 4 had 7 DLC characters but, coincidentally enough, 6 Mii costume waves and 7 stages that could be downloaded for both versions of the game. If this sounds weirdly familiar, this is because this is the direction Season 2 is currently going because we got a bonus stage so, at the very least, Season 2 will end with 7 new stages and 6 Mii costume waves. Smash 4 was 7 characters, 7 stages, but 6 Mii costume waves because Mewtwo was a bonus.

The Fighter's Pass technically had 6 characters, 5 stages, and 5 Mii costume waves. Plant was a bonus so this makes sense. Now let's go back...

If we eliminate bonuses, we get 6 characters for Smash 4 DLC and 5 for the Fighter's Pass. Now let's break it down by all the characters so:

-Lucas: no ALTs
-Roy: no ALTs
-Ryu: no ALTs
-Cloud: ALT
-Corrin: gender swap ALT
-Bayonetta: ALT

-Joker: ALT
-Hero: multiple ALTs
-Banjo: no ALTs
-Terry: no ALTs
-Byleth: gender swap ALT

-Min Min: no ALT
-Steve: multiple ALTs, gender swap ALT

If you look at this overview, you'll notice that each wave has had an exclusively female character, a character with a gender swap, and a character with a notable ALT change. Season 2 has already had their exclusively female character (Min Min) and a gender swap character (Steve) so this heavily suggests that this mystery character is a notable costume change that brings along differences in sound effects or voice clips. Let's go into this.

In Smash 4, Cloud had a notable ALT change but it didn't bring along new sounds. Bayonetta also had a notable ALT change and a big thing that this brings is that Bayonetta can speak Japanese in one ALT but not the other . In Ultimate, Joker has his "Notice Me Senpai" ALT but, like Cloud, brings no new voice clips or sound effects. Hero is obviously the most radical ALT character we've had since Bowser Jr and every ALT has different voice clips. Going back to our mystery character, we can conclude that the character has different voice clips for some reason.

Based on what we've seen so far, if characters don't have gender swaps but get different voice clips, it's because the ALTs either turn the character into another character that's extremely similar or change them into a younger/older version of the character. I think this is the angle that people should consider when considering voice theory. Season 2 already has an exclusively female character and a gender swap character so this suggests that this character is male but has a version of themselves or a similar compatriot noteworthy enough to include as an ALT.

TLDR version:

-Mystery character is most likely male based on past precedent.

-Odds of it being a gender swap character are very low based on past precedent.

-Most likely explanation is older/younger version of character or a character that could be effortlessly swapped out for them like in the case of Hero, Bowser Jr, or Olimar.

These characters can share a character space with others because its a non-issue. Olimar and Alph, for example, fight canonically the same and have similar personalities. The Heroes are blank avatars so there's no real personality differences there either in the context of Smash. The Koopalings all have very unique personalities but that doesn't matter because it's the Klown Kart the does a vast majority of the fighting. This also why all these characters share victory screens and taunts. Based on this, this mystery character will likely be the same.

Disclaimer: this all is going off the assumption that these last four packs are literally it as far as characters go. Another exceedingly simple explanation is that there's 5 characters left but one that's not not included in a pack but that's a whole other can of worms.

Hmm, a character that may have notable ALTS. From the names that are frequently speculated going forward for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, the characters I can think of that could fit this criteria are:

• Dante: the existence of Devil May Cry 3 specifically gives us the iteration of a much younger Dante in comparison to DMC 1 - 5. If he's one of the remaining fighters, he could be treated similarly to Ike by giving him his DMC 3 alt, alternating with either his DMC 1, or DMC 5 style. Another possibility that has been brought up by DMC connoisseurs is giving him a legit Vergil ALT, however, due to the differences in their combat styles, this would seem unlikely.
• Tales of rep: Lloyd has been the most talked about name as a Tales of rep within Smash DLC speculation but, what if the Tales of rep is our second case of "Hero"? A character with four different skins representing the most popular characters from the franchise. The skins could be for Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia), Yuri (Tales of Vesperia), Stahn (Tales of Destiny), and Luke (Tales of Abyss). Albeit their skills/artes vary so, this could perhaps prevent for the Tales of rep being made in a similar fashion to Dragon Quest's Hero.
• Phoenix Wright: I wonder if Ace Attorney fans have thought of the possibility of a Miles Edgeworth ALT skin for Phoenix. If he were to join the roster and be given Edgeworth's ALT skin, then they'd definitely have different voices.

Another character I'd like to bring up who could receive a similar treatment with notable ALT skins is Adol Christin. In his case he would have a young, and "older" ALT skins (let's say... an Ys I skin with him wearing his iconic armor, and an Ys IX skin which is his latest and is wearing more like a mercenary/adventurer outfit).

 

[MattX20]

As PapaGenos brought up in his video, it's possible that we could get two characters together that get separate voice clips like Lloyd Irving and his partner and Colette for example.

 

[SharkLord]

Hmm, a character that may have notable ALTS. From the names that are frequently speculated going forward for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, the characters I can think of that could fit this criteria are:

• Dante: the existence of Devil May Cry 3 specifically gives us the iteration of a much younger Dante in comparison to DMC 1 - 5. If he's one of the remaining fighters, he could be treated similarly to Ike by giving him his DMC 3 alt, alternating with either his DMC 1, or DMC 5 style. Another possibility that has been brought up by DMC connoisseurs is giving him a legit Vergil ALT, however, due to the differences in their combat styles, this would seem unlikely.
• Tales of rep: Lloyd has been the most talked about name as a Tales of rep within Smash DLC speculation but, what if the Tales of rep is our second case of "Hero"? A character with four different skins representing the most popular characters from the franchise. The skins could be for Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia), Yuri (Tales of Vesperia), Stahn (Tales of Destiny), and Luke (Tales of Abyss). Albeit their skills/artes vary so, this could perhaps prevent for the Tales of rep being made in a similar fashion to Dragon Quest's Hero.
• Phoenix Wright: I wonder if Ace Attorney fans have thought of the possibility of a Miles Edgeworth ALT skin for Phoenix. If he were to join the roster and be given Edgeworth's ALT skin, then they'd definitely have different voices.

Another character I'd like to bring up who could receive a similar treatment with notable ALT skins is Adol Christin. In his case he would have a young, and "older" ALT skins (let's say... an Ys I skin with him wearing his iconic armor, and an Ys IX skin which is his latest and is wearing more like a mercenary/adventurer outfit).

I'd like to point out that as far as I know, Lloyd is the only character to dual-wield, so you can't really have any other Tales character as an alt.
I'd say something similar for Phoenix and Edgeworth, since their jobs work differently, but I don't know enough about Ace Attorney and how to translate it's gameplay. Might have to ask someone else for an educated opinion on that one.
I feel like Adol would at best get the Ike treatment, and I'm not sure if Ike has separate slots on the select screen.
Not sure what any of this has to do with Geno from Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars for the SNES but you do you

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

I'm fifty-fifty on whether or not Geno would get a voice, but I hope he would, as long as it isn't annoying or unfitting.

 

[MattX20]

Of course, if we're talking different character alts: Phoenix Wright and Apollo Justice is a possibility. I'm still fairly confident that Geno would still have a few voice clips and maybe one or two full lines of dialogue whether it be for his taunts or victory screens

 

[Aerospherology]

I'm fifty-fifty on whether or not Geno would get a voice, but I hope he would, as long as it isn't annoying or unfitting.

Like Pit's but a little bit deeper

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Geno with a voice would be hella jarring, to say the least, Sakurai will probably just use sound effects from Mario RPG for Geno's attacks and nothing else

 

[Lyncario]

Hmm, a character that may have notable ALTS. From the names that are frequently speculated going forward for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, the characters I can think of that could fit this criteria are:

• Dante: the existence of Devil May Cry 3 specifically gives us the iteration of a much younger Dante in comparison to DMC 1 - 5. If he's one of the remaining fighters, he could be treated similarly to Ike by giving him his DMC 3 alt, alternating with either his DMC 1, or DMC 5 style. Another possibility that has been brought up by DMC connoisseurs is giving him a legit Vergil ALT, however, due to the differences in their combat styles, this would seem unlikely.
• Tales of rep: Lloyd has been the most talked about name as a Tales of rep within Smash DLC speculation but, what if the Tales of rep is our second case of "Hero"? A character with four different skins representing the most popular characters from the franchise. The skins could be for Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia), Yuri (Tales of Vesperia), Stahn (Tales of Destiny), and Luke (Tales of Abyss). Albeit their skills/artes vary so, this could perhaps prevent for the Tales of rep being made in a similar fashion to Dragon Quest's Hero.
• Phoenix Wright: I wonder if Ace Attorney fans have thought of the possibility of a Miles Edgeworth ALT skin for Phoenix. If he were to join the roster and be given Edgeworth's ALT skin, then they'd definitely have different voices.

Another character I'd like to bring up who could receive a similar treatment with notable ALT skins is Adol Christin. In his case he would have a young, and "older" ALT skins (let's say... an Ys I skin with him wearing his iconic armor, and an Ys IX skin which is his latest and is wearing more like a mercenary/adventurer outfit).

I would add Crash (Coco as an alt, as they share the same gameplay), Monster Hunter (obivous male female difference is obvious), and Sora (Roxas or KH1 Sora could work) to this list.

Also, to put Geno a bit more on this since this is his thread after all, he would either have a vioce or be voiceless, meaning that this only matters for him in the long run and if for example, the 3 next characters only have a single voice file, which would make him extremly unlikely.

 

[Firox]

Geno talks a lot in Super Mario RPG, he's not a mute character. All the Mario characters apart from Piranha Plant had voice clips of some kind.

Imagine how funny it would be if Geno's "voice lines" were literally the same text scrolls from SMRPG at the bottom of the screen. His victory screen would have him strike a pose, then his mouth would move and the text box appears:

"I serve...a higher authority."

 

[Blankiturayman]

I could see Geno having SMRPG sound effects rather than a voice. Though I wonder if those would be in the sound test as his "voice lines". That'd be pretty funny since it's all just sound effects.