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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Megadoomer

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Question, who made Cacomallow? Was it the same guy who leaked Ken before? The only evidence is that he's doing the thumbs up pose, maybe that's their calling card?
We don't know who made it. (though we don't know who made the Grinch leak either, so I don't know how much that means in the long run) Presumably, the thumbs-up Ken was an attempt at piggy-backing on the Ken leak, because the Ken leak was very different.


(there's some kind of technical data on the bottom of the screen and on the right side, and the timer is different, having a 0 at the start of it unlike the final game or the Cacomallow screenshots/video)
 
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Fatmanonice

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Hey @fatmanoncould you list in order who you believe is most likely based off what you've gotten so far? Do you hear waluigi more than Geno? Is crash menionted a lot? Who do you think is most likely in based off what you've gotten so far.
My predictions haven't changed too much. I feel like the last two months have given a ton of ammo to the "bonus characters" argument and hearing certain characters as far back as 2018 is definitely relevant. If I were to fill all 8 remaining slots...

Geno, Ryu, Lloyd, Dante for Season 2

Waluigi, Crash, Dixie, and Chief for "bonuses"

Geno, Ryu, and Lloyd were all heard in 2018 and Capcom expressed strong interest in Dante in Smash in early 2019.

One of my guys told me to discount Ryu last December and I did for a long time. Now there's just too much smoke surrounding him (not to mention a couple of notable insiders have been not so subtle about Koei Tecmo content on the way). I've also come to realize that Ryu as Season 2's "Terry" makes way too much sense and the similarities are a mile long. I also want to say that Sakurai has specifically mentioned Ninja Gaiden as one of his favorite NES games along with Dragon Quest III so him being Season 2's blatant "Sakurai pick" makes a ton of sense too.

I think Waluigi is going to wind up as Season 2's "Plant" somehow but I'm not sure on the timing. (A double reveal with him and Geno would be incredibly cathartic though.)

Crash and Chief have a lot going for them that goes back to 2019 so them not panning until 2021 makes sense. Both as E3 2021 reveals would really be something else.

Dixie is just my own speculation based on various things, with one of the bigger things being it's now confirmed that Nintendo has huge plans for DKC going forward.
 
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Dukefire

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While it is still too early to speculate, which character would be next if a Smash Trailer would drop during TGA 2020 on Dec 10? It could be either first party or third party.
 

YsDisciple

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Dang, I hadn't really thought about Ryu Hayabusa potentially being the "Terry" of Season 2. Aside from Ninja Gaiden, he is also a fighter in the Dead or Alive games. Heck, his character could end up having a moveset combining both playstyles (although... that would be kinda weird since... what franchise would it represent). Imagine Sakurai geared up with a ninja garb during the presentation. Would be sick af.
 

Megadoomer

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Dang, I hadn't really thought about Ryu Hayabusa potentially being the "Terry" of Season 2. Aside from Ninja Gaiden, he is also a fighter in the Dead or Alive games. Heck, his character could end up having a moveset combining both playstyles (although... that would be kinda weird since... what franchise would it represent). Imagine Sakurai geared up with a ninja garb during the presentation. Would be sick af.
He's presumably represent Ninja Gaiden, since he's the star of that franchise; Terry references Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, and Garou: Mark of the Wolves, but they went with Fatal Fury out of all of those.
 

BigZGaming2015

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For the sake of refreshing our minds in regards to the CacoMallow leak, here's a video showing the image leak, and the gameplay footage. You may mute the sound just to impartially observe and appreciate the image and gameplay.
https://youtu.be/1DFp_AXQTZg?t=17

Following from what Fatman mentioned earlier; the fact that Steve, Hero, Banjo, Geno, Ryu (Hayabusa), Waluigi, Lloyd, and Byleth were heard around 2018 according to Xenother makes sense not only in regards to the timing of the CacoMallow leak's appearance, but also the characters that did get added to Ultimate out of those.

So the characters (again) that were heard sometime in 2018 were:
  • Steve (Microsoft)
  • Hero (Square Enix)
  • Banjo & Kazooie (Microsoft)
  • Geno (Square Enix)
  • Ryu Hayabusa (Koei Tecmo)
  • Waluigi (Nintendo)
  • Lloyd Irving (Bandai Namco)
  • Byleth (Nintendo)
Do notice how some of these characters belong to the same Company. Considering this, within a Fighters Pass it would be "unfair" (perhaps) to include characters from one same partner Company. Ah, then in that case, among these characters most likely the dev team had to decide which of these would be added to the first Fighters Pass, while the others would be kept on hold depending on said pass' success. It didn't take long to realize that the first Fighters Pass was a runaway success with the surprise reveal of Joker (from Persona 5) kicking off as Challenger Pack 1; following with Hero, and Banjo & Kazooie as CPs 2 and 3 respectively.

For Fighters Pass (1), out of the names heard in 2018 the picks were,
  • Hero (Square Enix)
  • Banjo & Kazooie (Microsoft)
  • Byleth (Nintendo)
What criteria they used in deciding which characters would be chosen for the first Fighters Pass remains an unknown variable. Luckily a second Fighters Pass came along and so far we've gotten another one of those names; Steve (Microsoft). Thus at the moment, the following names remain in the air,
  • Geno (Square Enix)
  • Ryu Hayabusa (Koei Tecmo)
  • Waluigi (Nintendo)
  • Lloyd Irving (Bandai Namco)
Huh, four characters; how coincidental (knowing there are still four slots remaining in the Fighters Pass Vol. 2). With Fighters Pass 1 however we got characters whose names weren't known such as Joker and Terry (although Terry started doing the rounds close to his reveal). In that sense, we should expect the same happening for Fighters Pass Vol. 2; the inclusion of characters that weren't head of way back then (in 2018), but have been doing the rounds much later (possibly near the date of what could have been their reveal).

With the other names that have been rumored around 2019 and onward, it's only a matter of adding them to the ones from 2018 and that's very much the speculation pool we find ourselves in at present time (and have been in for quite some time). Imo though, the names from 2018 should have priority over the later ones since most likely negotiations for them had already been made, and the others were done as well just in case (for additional passes).
If these were our final four characters I would totally be okay with this. I've wanted Geno since Brawl and Waluigi since Melee, and I think Ryu could have a really fun moveset. I don't have much interest in Lloyd but I know Sakurai would make him a fun fighter.

I'm a believer in Cacomallow, but the only thing that makes me pause is that Nintendo never took the video down. I know people say that Nintendo wouldn't do that because that would just immediately confirm the legitimacy of the video, but that hasn't stopped Nintendo in the past though, right?

Do people reconcile that fact by saying when Nintendo has taken stuff down it was closer to release, whereas this Cacomallow stuff is theoretically farther from the video's release? Again, I'm a Cacomallow believer, but Nintendo not taking any action does make me squirm a little bit. I guess Nintendo might have not wanted to take any action since that would confirm the legitimacy of the video? Maybe? But I don't know about that.

Maybe someone can soothe my mind on this fact. As aside from that wrinkle, Cacomallow looks real as all get out and seems real.
I'm surprised this isn't talked about as much. Maybe they learned from their mistakes with the ESRB leak? After they striked it down, everyone basically took that as confirmation that it was real. Maybe they don't want that to happen again. If they don't touch the video, it leaves us to speculate for months on end to wonder if its real or not.
 

Karen6969

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My predictions haven't changed too much. I feel like the last two months have given a ton of ammo to the "bonus characters" argument and hearing certain characters as far back as 2018 is definitely relevant. If I were to fill all 8 remaining slots...

Geno, Ryu, Lloyd, Dante for Season 2

Waluigi, Crash, Dixie, and Chief for "bonuses"

Geno, Ryu, and Lloyd were all heard in 2018 and Capcom expressed strong interest in Dante in Smash in early 2019.

One of my guys told me to discount Ryu last December and I did for a long time. Now there's just too much smoke surrounding him (not to mention a couple of notable insiders have been not so subtle about Koei Tecmo content on the way). I've also come to realize that Ryu as Season 2's "Terry" makes way too much sense and the similarities are a mile long. I also want to say that Sakurai has specifically mentioned Ninja Gaiden as one of his favorite NES games along with Dragon Quest III so him being Season 2's blatant "Sakurai pick" makes a ton of sense too.

I think Waluigi is going to wind up as Season 2's "Plant" somehow but I'm not sure on the timing. (A double reveal with him and Geno would be incredibly cathartic though.)

Crash and Chief have a lot going for them that goes back to 2019 so them not panning until 2021 makes sense. Both as E3 2021 reveals would really be something else.

Dixie is just my own speculation based on various things, with one of the bigger things being it's now confirmed that Nintendo has huge plans for DKC going forward.
I like the idea of Waluigi being the Plant of this pass. As far as timing goes, do you think it's at all possible that he could be dropped sometime in November for the Mario tournament? The timing of the tournament has seemed suspicious for a while but I highly doubt they would release another pass fighter by then, so it doesn't seem like the tournament would coincide with a Geno/Waluigi DLC 8 reveal... however if Waluigi is bonus then technically he wouldn't have to coincide with the speculation that points to Dec/Jan for fighter 8, so he could maybe be dropped in November for the tournament? Seems like that would be the perfect time to do it and would help to further strengthen the conclusion of 2020 for Nintendo. Also, if we are getting both Geno and Waluigi this would give them plenty of time to space out their reveals so that it doesn't feel like tons of Mario all at once- Geno would be an amazing pass closer in my opinion (even though waiting for him would suck).


edit- also with how long it has taken us to get Min Min and Steve it isn't completely unreasonable to think that they could have had time to also program a seemingly simple fighter who already has a render in-game... especially with Steve finished they have another month or so to finish him if this is what is happening. I really do think the tournament means something, I just personally don't see how it could have anything to do with DLC 8 at this point unless it is a separate bonus fighter like Wah
 
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Firox

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I like the idea of Waluigi being the Plant of this pass. As far as timing goes, do you think it's at all possible that he could be dropped sometime in November for the Mario tournament? The timing of the tournament has seemed suspicious for a while but I highly doubt they would release another pass fighter by then, so it doesn't seem like the tournament would coincide with a Geno/Waluigi DLC 8 reveal... however if Waluigi is bonus then technically he wouldn't have to coincide with the speculation that points to Dec/Jan for fighter 8, so he could maybe be dropped in November for the tournament? Seems like that would be the perfect time to do it and would help to further strengthen the conclusion of 2020 for Nintendo. Also, if we are getting both Geno and Waluigi this would give them plenty of time to space out their reveals so that it doesn't feel like tons of Mario all at once- Geno would be an amazing pass closer in my opinion (even though waiting for him would suck).
In my opinion, they should have Geno as fighter 8 and save Waluigi for last. Why? Three reasons:

1) Space out the Mario characters
2) The last character will likely garner the most hate, so who better to end with than the ultimate troll character?
3) I can't wait any longer for Geno
 

Karen6969

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In my opinion, they should have Geno as fighter 8 and save Waluigi for last. Why? Three reasons:

1) Space out the Mario characters
2) The last character will likely garner the most hate, so who better to end with than the ultimate troll character?
3) I can't wait any longer for Geno
This is definitely possible as well, I think the reason I believe it will be the other way around is because of the tournament. If Geno is 8, I doubt they would reveal/release him a month after Steve in time for the tournament whereas if we are getting Waluigi as a bonus fighter they could get away with revealing and releasing him in the gap between Steve and 8, which just so happens to coincide perfectly with the tournament. If that tournament comes and goes with no Waluigi, then I think Waluigi will become a case of either being last or not happening at all.
 
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PatPrime

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My predictions haven't changed too much. I feel like the last two months have given a ton of ammo to the "bonus characters" argument and hearing certain characters as far back as 2018 is definitely relevant. If I were to fill all 8 remaining slots...

Geno, Ryu, Lloyd, Dante for Season 2

Waluigi, Crash, Dixie, and Chief for "bonuses"

Geno, Ryu, and Lloyd were all heard in 2018 and Capcom expressed strong interest in Dante in Smash in early 2019.

One of my guys told me to discount Ryu last December and I did for a long time. Now there's just too much smoke surrounding him (not to mention a couple of notable insiders have been not so subtle about Koei Tecmo content on the way). I've also come to realize that Ryu as Season 2's "Terry" makes way too much sense and the similarities are a mile long. I also want to say that Sakurai has specifically mentioned Ninja Gaiden as one of his favorite NES games along with Dragon Quest III so him being Season 2's blatant "Sakurai pick" makes a ton of sense too.

I think Waluigi is going to wind up as Season 2's "Plant" somehow but I'm not sure on the timing. (A double reveal with him and Geno would be incredibly cathartic though.)

Crash and Chief have a lot going for them that goes back to 2019 so them not panning until 2021 makes sense. Both as E3 2021 reveals would really be something else.

Dixie is just my own speculation based on various things, with one of the bigger things being it's now confirmed that Nintendo has huge plans for DKC going forward.
I'm of the mindset that FP2 will most likely be the last fighters with the possibility we get 1 or 2 more. So with your predictions for FP2, Geno is great but the last three there would definitely not be exciting for me, personally. So I hope that at least Crash and Geno appear in the second pass.
 

Let Geno Smash

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My predictions haven't changed too much. I feel like the last two months have given a ton of ammo to the "bonus characters" argument and hearing certain characters as far back as 2018 is definitely relevant. If I were to fill all 8 remaining slots...

Geno, Ryu, Lloyd, Dante for Season 2

Waluigi, Crash, Dixie, and Chief for "bonuses"

Geno, Ryu, and Lloyd were all heard in 2018 and Capcom expressed strong interest in Dante in Smash in early 2019.

One of my guys told me to discount Ryu last December and I did for a long time. Now there's just too much smoke surrounding him (not to mention a couple of notable insiders have been not so subtle about Koei Tecmo content on the way). I've also come to realize that Ryu as Season 2's "Terry" makes way too much sense and the similarities are a mile long. I also want to say that Sakurai has specifically mentioned Ninja Gaiden as one of his favorite NES games along with Dragon Quest III so him being Season 2's blatant "Sakurai pick" makes a ton of sense too.

I think Waluigi is going to wind up as Season 2's "Plant" somehow but I'm not sure on the timing. (A double reveal with him and Geno would be incredibly cathartic though.)

Crash and Chief have a lot going for them that goes back to 2019 so them not panning until 2021 makes sense. Both as E3 2021 reveals would really be something else.

Dixie is just my own speculation based on various things, with one of the bigger things being it's now confirmed that Nintendo has huge plans for DKC going forward.
Ok, that part of Sakurai liking Ninja Gaiden is huge. I know that isn't important but you mention DQ3 that isn't just a Dragon Quest game, it's an Erdrick (:ulthero3:) game. Also we all know Sakurai likes MC. He had little Minecraf Items like Chests or Crafting Tables in his house and a interchangeable Sword/Pickaxe toy and he was ok by adding Steve so obviously he would be ok with adding Hayabusa
 
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MattX20

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My predictions haven't changed too much. I feel like the last two months have given a ton of ammo to the "bonus characters" argument and hearing certain characters as far back as 2018 is definitely relevant. If I were to fill all 8 remaining slots...

Geno, Ryu, Lloyd, Dante for Season 2

Waluigi, Crash, Dixie, and Chief for "bonuses"

Geno, Ryu, and Lloyd were all heard in 2018 and Capcom expressed strong interest in Dante in Smash in early 2019.

One of my guys told me to discount Ryu last December and I did for a long time. Now there's just too much smoke surrounding him (not to mention a couple of notable insiders have been not so subtle about Koei Tecmo content on the way). I've also come to realize that Ryu as Season 2's "Terry" makes way too much sense and the similarities are a mile long. I also want to say that Sakurai has specifically mentioned Ninja Gaiden as one of his favorite NES games along with Dragon Quest III so him being Season 2's blatant "Sakurai pick" makes a ton of sense too.

I think Waluigi is going to wind up as Season 2's "Plant" somehow but I'm not sure on the timing. (A double reveal with him and Geno would be incredibly cathartic though.)

Crash and Chief have a lot going for them that goes back to 2019 so them not panning until 2021 makes sense. Both as E3 2021 reveals would really be something else.

Dixie is just my own speculation based on various things, with one of the bigger things being it's now confirmed that Nintendo has huge plans for DKC going forward.
Can you find the article that mentions that Ninja Gaiden is one of Sakurai's favorite NES games?
 

MisterMike

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Is there any reason people here overlook a new Pokemon? Sakurai flat out says he always leaves a spot open to Pokemon, and as seen with Byleth Nintendo isn't adverse to including constant promotion of current franchises.

I still think the most rumored characters like Ryu Hayabusa, a possible Namco or Capcom rep (Tales or Dante or whatever) are most likely because they keep coming up.
Well, putting aside the fact that absolutely nobody wants another ****ing Pokemon character Jesus ****ing Christ, there's just not much evidence to support it happening:
  • They already got a new Pokemon character during the base game. To contrast, Fire Emblem only got Chrom as an Echo Fighter in the base game, which technically doesn't count as a new fighter, so it'd make sense for them to want to include a new Fire Emblem character later down the line.
  • They got their own Spirit Event with Sword & Shield Pokemon. Now sure, there are plenty of new Pokemon in Gen VIII to make a potential Spirit Board out of, but just like with Resident Evil, Astral Chain and Paper Mario, the mere fact that they decided to have a Spirit Event indicates they most likely didn't have any plans for that franchise to begin with, because if they did, they would've held those Spirits off for release alongside that series' fighter.
  • There's been no rumors of a Pokemon fighter for years now. While a Pokemon character might just be the kind of thing that's super hard to leak, especially during times like this, the fact that we've heard nothing in terms of rumors about another Pokemon character coming to Smash kind of leads me to believe it's not happening.


I'm torn on the Cacomallow leak, but we've seen time and time again that people are more than willing to go above and beyond in order to make fake leaks and mess with the Smash community.

It being fake would require one anonymous person to surpass the entire Smash Ultimate modding community in terms of being able to add high-quality Mii costumes into the game and then never doing anything like that again (though I wouldn't put it past someone to do that), but it being real would mean that the Mii hats were finished well over a year before they were actually announced, which seems increasingly implausible the longer that this wait goes on. (though as we've seen with Steve, rumours like this can take a while to actually pan out)

Either way, I'm not sure there's much else to discuss that hasn't been brought up by this point. I'd say it's like beating a dead horse, except it's gone beyond that point by now.
The Spring Man/Decidueye Hoax was easily disproven from the start given how crusty Spring Man's animations are. Then again, CacoMallow isn't potentially trying to fake something nearly as complicated as a fighter.

Question, who made Cacomallow? Was it the same guy who leaked Ken before? The only evidence is that he's doing the thumbs up pose, maybe that's their calling card?
We have no idea. It was just uploaded to 4chan anonymously.

We don't know who made it. (though we don't know who made the Grinch leak either, so I don't know how much that means in the long run) Presumably, the thumbs-up Ken was an attempt at piggy-backing on the Ken leak, because the Ken leak was very different.


(there's some kind of technical data on the bottom of the screen and on the right side, and the timer is different, having a 0 at the start of it unlike the final game or the Cacomallow screenshots/video)
The timer having an extra 0 is an early development thing. If you look at old demo gameplay I'm certain you'll see this extra 0 in front of the timer.

>You need an account to vote
Ah, no wonder I've never heard of it.
 

Peepo T. Skeleton

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Mr. Peepee

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Hm, yeah Fighter 8 is definitely not getting revealed next Fall lol. I'll give it till January or February at the earliest.
There was a problem fetching the tweet

Fall 2021, so I guess we can't rely on Amiibo release dates anymore.
 
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Mizzle

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Can you find the article that mentions that Ninja Gaiden is one of Sakurai's favorite NES games?
I'm pretty sure he was referring to this.
Q37: What games have you bought on the Wii Virtual Console?

Sakurai: Though It may not be too useful, “Donkey Kong”, “Mario Brothers”, “Solomon’s Key”, “Kid Icarus”, “The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past”, “Ninja Gaiden”, “Super Mario Brothers 2”, “Super Mario Brothers 3”, “Life Force”, “Dungeon Explorer”, “Moto Roader”, “Comix Zone”, “Ys I & II”, “Zanac”, “Glory of Heracles III”, “Fist of the North Star”, “Super Picross”, “The Adventure of Link”, etc.
It doesn't explicitly say that Ninja Gaiden is one of his favorite NES games, but it does mean that he enjoyed it enough to download it on the Wii. Ys I & II is another notable game, imo.
 

PatPrime

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Hold on, I know that both Steve and Ryu were rumored all the way back in 2018 but we also know that Steve took at most 5 years to negotiate for and develop. Would Ryu really take a long time as well? Not "5 years" long but maybe 2 or 3 years? I'm not entirely confident in Ryu being in this pass still, honestly. (Though it might be that my bias is creeping in here, too.)
 

RetrogamerMax

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

Fall 2021, so I guess we can't rely on Amiibo release dates anymore.
I know it's not going to happen, but if we have to wait until Fall of next year for the next fighter I will... *! This cert of * is why I'm thinking about leaving the speculation scene. Maybe it would be better to take my vacation from speculation now instead of waiting until Geno get's announced.
 

Inawordyes

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I know it's not going to happen, but if we have to wait until Fall of next year for the next fighter I will... *! This cert of * is why I'm thinking about leaving the speculation scene. Maybe it would be better to take my vacation from speculation now instead of waiting until Geno get's announced.
There’s literally no way they’re going to commit to release the rest of the pass by 12/31/21 in Steve’s video (by using the phrase “will be released”) and then not release FP8 until the fall so that they have to announce and release 3 more characters before the end of the year in the span of ~3 months
 

RetrogamerMax

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So... Uh... This could be big...

The Breath of the Wild Amiibo rereleases are November, Cat Mario and Cat Peach are February, and Monster Hunter is late March...

This heavily suggests we should be seeing 8 in a matter of weeks, maybe even by the end of the month. This is REALLY good.
I hope you're right. I wouldn't put it pass Nintendo to wait until February or March to announce the next fighter even though Steve and FP8 were originally suppose to be revealed together at E3.
 
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xNovaNebulax

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So... Uh... This could be big...

The Breath of the Wild Amiibo rereleases are November, Cat Mario and Cat Peach are February, and Monster Hunter is late March...

This heavily suggests we should be seeing 8 in a matter of weeks, maybe even by the end of the month. This is REALLY good.
oh this is gonna get good. very good. who has the popcorn :O
 

Peepo T. Skeleton

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So... Uh... This could be big...

The Breath of the Wild Amiibo rereleases are November, Cat Mario and Cat Peach are February, and Monster Hunter is late March...

This heavily suggests we should be seeing 8 in a matter of weeks, maybe even by the end of the month. This is REALLY good.
Wait, Amiibo theory applies to non-Smash Amiibos?
 

Mr. Peepee

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wait really
So... Uh... This could be big...

The Breath of the Wild Amiibo rereleases are November, Cat Mario and Cat Peach are February, and Monster Hunter is late March...

This heavily suggests we should be seeing 8 in a matter of weeks, maybe even by the end of the month. This is REALLY good.
 

Fatmanonice

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Wait, Amiibo theory applies to non-Smash Amiibos?
There might be Smash Amiibo rereleases in these waves that haven't been announced yet. Either way, Nintendo tends to release all its Amiibo for the month around the same time so it's definitely applicable.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Fall 2021... Looks like they've caught on to amiibo Theory, eh? :ultpacman:
Or maybe they're releasing the DLC character Amiibos in a similar schedule lineup to Smash 4's as I believe Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta's Amiibos didn't come out until around almost a year after they were announced and Smash 4's DLC cycle ended. I'm sure it will be similar with the last Amiibo wave for Ultimate.
 
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