Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

Geno's moveset potential is undeniable, and the only thing that might be debatable is how his aerial recovery works. Apart from that, Super Mario RPG gives him everything he needs to work.

 

[Polarthief]

and the only thing that might be debatable is how his aerial recovery works.

Two options I feel:
- Geno Flash: Turns into a cannon that also shoots himself (and where he stops gaining distance, he would explode in a sunburst).
- Actually uses his cape for something besides aesthetics.

 

[Firox]

Two options I feel:
- Geno Flash: Turns into a cannon that also shoots himself (and where he stops gaining distance, he would explode in a sunburst).
- Actually uses his cape for something besides aesthetics.

They could do all sorts of stuff. They could have him shoot a rocket arm downward like Megaman's Dair/Mii Gunner's recovery for a dual-purpose spike. They could also have his hand shoot up and grab the ledge while a chain connects back to his body for a tether recovery. Sky's the limit.

 

[TTF]

So, by all current factors:

-We're probably getting a general Smash presentation next Thursday.

-Because of the fact that it's a June presentation, it's all but guaranteed to have multiple reveals.

-Because this presentation is the first of Season 2, it's pretty likely to have a "But Wait, There's More" moment that will reveal content we weren't originally told about or expecting.

Hold fast, comrades. The wind is in our sails and the end is in sight. Don't go crazy just yet.

My apologies if it's been talked before or if it sounds off topic, but regarding the idea of 4 bonus characters because of 16 characters slots, have there been any confirmed reports of extra slots and/or all of them being filled in in the previous Smash games?

 

[Polarthief]

They could do all sorts of stuff. They could have him shoot a rocket arm downward like Megaman's Dair/Mii Gunner's recovery for a dual-purpose spike. They could also have his hand shoot up and grab the ledge while a chain connects back to his body for a tether recovery. Sky's the limit.

Oh don't get me wrong, there's tons of options, but I think Sakurai would like to use as many references and original-to-the-game things as possible before exploring other avenues. If we're talking everything, I wouldn't mind seeing Double Punch used downward to launch himself upward.

 

[Fatmanonice]

My apologies if it's been talked before or if it sounds off topic, but regarding the idea of 4 bonus characters because of 16 characters slots, have there been any confirmed reports of extra slots and/or all of them being filled in in the previous Smash games?

I've talked about it but the main reasons I entertain the idea is because:

-All of Smash 4's character slots were eventually filled.

-Enough insiders have at least heard of the concept of bonus characters that it's hard to completely dismiss.

-Season 2's deadline is 10 months longer than the Fighter's Pass despite literally being one pack more and technically the same number of characters.

-Once all 16 character slots are filled on the Character Select Screen, the game crashes meaning it's a limit that can't be easily worked around or patched. The dummy slots show that, at the very least, Sakurai and the team have entertained the idea of hitting this limit.

This all said, I could be dead wrong in the end but I feel like it's way too early to make the call that it absolutely won't happen.

 

[axel_]

Geno's moveset potential is undeniable, and the only thing that might be debatable is how his aerial recovery works. Apart from that, Super Mario RPG gives him everything he needs to work.

Geno Boost, it's all in the name. Have him fly up with a bunch of red arrow-shaped stars following him.
Instead of the stat boost, have the defense increase represented with super armor.

 

[Heoj]

Genos Up-B potentially being the cannon could increase the likelihood of legacy xp being taken down because of geno actually getting into smash since his up-b in legacy xp is also the cannon

 

[QQS]

Love this kind of stuff, empathy, love, dedication and support. The picture is truly beautiful and epic :’)

Credits to Sean Hicks on Twitter. Thanks buddy.



GENO WAKES UP FROM A LONG DREAM!

 

[Fatmanonice]

The ideal DLC "flow" is:

February - April - June - September - November - December

We missed out on the April reveal and release but we're getting a June presentation. As I pointed out yesterday, Sakurai tries to get things back in the flow as quickly as possible if things are postponed or delayed. Thanks to the Polish Amiibo leak in May, we know that Nintendo currently has an Amiibo wave planned for September meaning that, like with the Fighter's Pass, Sakurai managed to fix the flow despite the delay pretty quickly. This begs the question of how Sakurai managed to do this. In my opinion, there are several options:

-The April presentation is now the June presentation and the June presentation is now happening in September.

-The April presentation and the June presentation were simply combined into one.

I think the second option is more likely. Why? Because we've technically already seen this with Smash 4.

April- Mewtwo (release), Lucas (announced)

June- Lucas (release), Roy (announced and released), Ryu (announced and released)

Watch what happens when we adjust things to Sakurai's "ideal" DLC flow:

April- Mewtwo (release), Lucas (announced)

June- Lucas (released), Roy (announced)

September- Roy (released), Ryu (announced)

November- Ryu (released), Cloud (announced)

It fits our flowchart perfectly which means, if things are already "corrected" by September, this is what we're arguably looking at on a basic level for this upcoming presentation:

June presentation: Release, announce and release, announce (releases in September)

This is the end result if we combine the Spring and E3 Directs of the past two DLC seasons too:

Smash 4: Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy Ryu (all release)

Fighter's Pass: Joker and Hero release, Banjo announcement

What I'll have you all note, however, is that Mewtwo and Joker were announced before their respective Spring Directs. ARMS was announced in the Spring Direct so... was ARMS really meant to be our April release or was it always going to be June, fitting with what happened both in Smash 4 and the Fighter's Pass? I'll dissect that more later.

 

[Droodle]

I've talked about it but the main reasons I entertain the idea is because:

-All of Smash 4's character slots were eventually filled.

-Enough insiders have at least heard of the concept of bonus characters that it's hard to completely dismiss.

-Season 2's deadline is 10 months longer than the Fighter's Pass despite literally being one pack more and technically the same number of characters.

-Once all 16 character slots are filled on the Character Select Screen, the game crashes meaning it's a limit that can't be easily worked around or patched. The dummy slots show that, at the very least, Sakurai and the team have entertained the idea of hitting this limit.

This all said, I could be dead wrong in the end but I feel like it's way too early to make the call that it absolutely won't happen.

I don't really think taking 10 extra months really means anything. First of all it's a placeholder date, rather then anything concrete; and it is also likely that the development team was reduced during the transition from season 1 to 2. On top of all that I doubt they'd throw in "bonus" fighters during the development of season 2 when the first priority would have been to complete all 6 DLC characters. They simply wouldn't increase their workload while being under time constraints to regularly release fighters on time for the original DLC.

Just because they were filled for Smash 4 doesn't really mean much, that's just a sample size of 1 game. Hardly, anything concrete.

Pirahna Plant was nearly done by the time Ultimate launched, and we know it was being playtested back in September before launch. Outside of that, most DLC has released (not revealed) every 3-4 months.

Going by that, a general plan for DLC could have been:
- ARMS March/April 2020
- 7 June/July 2020
- 8 September/October 2020
- 9 December 2020/January 2021
- 10 March/April 2021
- 11 June/July 2021
This gives them plenty of time for delays, especially if certain characters like ARMS are tricky to develop and they anticipated the challenge; but at the very least 11 would have been revealed around the time of E3 2021 which would be a perfect place to end things off if things went as planned.

We may end up getting bonus characters after season 2 is finished; but with the information we have right now it is better to assume that these 6 are the last. Sakurai has stated that Ultimate is done after season 2, but he may change his mind. If we do end up getting bonus characters after season 2 though, chances are it'll just be another pass.

Also on a bonus note, it would be kind of a **** move if Nintendo decided to reveal bonus characters during season 2. They could put some highly requested fighters as separate "bonus" purchases while pass 2 is just mostly ok.

 

[axel_]

I really think the most likely outcome for "bonus characters" is echo fighters, either released separately, in a bundle, or packaged in with Challenger Packs.

 

[pinshadow]

The only thing I think is really weird right now IS the whole December 2021 thing since Smash has actually been really good at keeping release dates when it comes to DLC.

• Mewtwo announced for Spring, dropped in April
• Lucas announced for June, dropped in June
• Corrin and Bayo announced for February, drop in February
• Joker out by the end of April, dropped in April
• Hero announced for Summer. dropped in July
• Terry announced for November, dropped in November

The only times they've ever been off schedule is when stuff has come out earlier than they expected, and even then it's all been only by a few weeks at most.

• Banjo announced for Fall, released a few weeks earlier at the start of September
• Fighter's Pass was said to be done by February 2020, technically finished a few days earlier in January

It paints a picture of them generally being extremely on-track. stuff is mapped out pretty well ahead of time. It's why I don't think the ARMS rep is getting delayed at all, they were confident in June 3 months ago and they're clearly sticking with it. Now, back to the December 2021 thing, keep a few things in mind.

• They were able to get 6 new DLC characters, 5 new stages, all the music remixes and mii costumes, plus Stage Builder, Online Tournaments, Online Betting, Content Sharing, the VR Mode, and Home Run Contest all in the span of one year and some change.
• Smash 4 also only took one year to get out all of it's content, but to be fair that was also really only 5 characters plus 2 semi clones, 4 stages plus 4 returning stages and Miiverse, plus shared content and online tournies, and again, one year and some change, for TWO versions of the game by the way.
• Now suddenly, given that Sakurai already confirmed NO NEW MODES are being added, it's going to take them almost 2 YEARS for only 6 packs when they got just as much if not more content done in one year twice? HUH?
• Keep in mind, this was all decided on before Corana took off. I know people took the date as a placeholder since it was SO FAR but like I said earlier, they stick to their dates really well, why would they suddenly be so unsure about it, unless they are confident it is going to take them until December 2021 and in that case why? It makes absolutely no sense.
• Even if they always intended for them to only start releasing in June (big if) thats still a whole year and a half for all the DLC, what is the deal?

I'm not fully on the bonus character train, I do genuninely believe Sakurai when he said these were the last 6, but it does come across as really fishy.

 

[Enigma735]

One thing about bonus fighters that has me think they "could" happen is the fact that their is an entire section dedicated to bonus fighters and the only character their is Piranha Plant, and that really doesn't sit well with my OCD for me. Not to mention the fact that Sakurai did state he would continue working on Smash if their is enough demand for it, and with how big Smash is, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai decided to develop characters on the side while working on Volume 2. That is just my two cents.

Still, if I had to take a guess, I would still say its more likely these six are the last six characters and I do take Sakurai's word by that, but I would be ecstatic if we somehow got even more.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Going off what pinshadow said, if Season 2 was simply a continuation of the Fighter's Pass then ARMs was still on time for an April release because we've established that it's essentially a two month gap between announcements and releases:

Feb - April - June - Sept - Nov - Dec

Byleth was supposed to be announced in December and was basically released shortly before February. Like I've said in earlier posts, aside from E3, the announce - release pattern has been pretty consistent.

If we apply the same metrics as the Fighter's Pass, 2020 would currently look like:

Byleth - Feb
ARMS -April
Two announcements- June
Announcement - Sept

That's 4 of the six packs by the fall... And with More than year left for only two characters. Like pinshadow said, this is also in consideration that there's no new modes and Sakurai has outright said that they were going to focus only on the DLC. Pretty suspicious.

 

[TTF]

One thing about bonus fighters that has me think they "could" happen is the fact that their is an entire section dedicated to bonus fighters and the only character their is Piranha Plant, and that really doesn't sit well with my OCD for me. Not to mention the fact that Sakurai did state he would continue working on Smash if their is enough demand for it, and with how big Smash is, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai decided to develop characters on the side while working on Volume 2. That is just my two cents.

Still, if I had to take a guess, I would still say its more likely these six are the last six characters and I do take Sakurai's word by that, but I would be ecstatic if we somehow got even more.

I'd love for bonus characters but I'm also keeping a foot in reality and keep expectations on these 6 characters to be the last.

Still, if bonus characters are in, with how things have been I can see a bonus character be used as an advantage.

"We apologize for these delays. We understand how these trying times are tough for literally everyone. But to hopefully make up for he delay of this Fighter Pass character pack, have this small bonus character to pass the time."

 

[JarBear]

Everything about this pass has been suspicious since the beginning. Granted there is understanding on delays and whatnot from the virus, but at the beginning of things: “two years to complete 6 characters, won’t reveal the first fighter almost a year later, and no new modes or whatnot since the focus is JUST on the fighters. (Minus Mii costumes, stage and music that goes with them) Hmmmm.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It just kind of doesn't add up. Even with gaps, there's typically stuff in-between. Joker was announced in December but had Plant's release in February. The Fighter's Pass was basically:

Nov Announce, Dec announce, Feb release, April release, June announce (double), July release, Sept release, Sept announce, Nov release, Jan announce and release

Smash 4 in comparison was:

Oct Announce, April release, April announce, June release, June announce and release (double), Nov announce, Dec release, Dec announce (double), Feb release (double)

It's pretty consistently announce - release. If announcements are stacked, then releases happen before more announcements and we haven't had a stack bigger than two so far. This means that if ARMS was supposed to be an April release, E3 would have been at least two announcements, with both releasing by the end of September. This means a minimum of three announcements currently on hold because I very seriously doubt EE 2020 was going to be a single character.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Going off what pinshadow said, if Season 2 was simply a continuation of the Fighter's Pass then ARMs was still on time for an April release because we've established that it's essentially a two month gap between announcements and releases:

Feb - April - June - Sept - Nov - Dec

Byleth was supposed to be announced in December and was basically released shortly before February. Like I've said in earlier posts, aside from E3, the announce - release pattern has been pretty consistent.

If we apply the same metrics as the Fighter's Pass, 2020 would currently look like:

Byleth - Feb
ARMS -April
Two announcements- June
Announcement - Sept

That's 4 of the six packs by the fall... And with More than year left for only two characters. Like pinshadow said, this is also in consideration that there's no new modes and Sakurai has outright said that they were going to focus only on the DLC. Pretty suspicious.

To add onto this theory that we are about to get more than one reveal, the last Nintendo Direct was September 4, 2019. After they showed Terry was when they had a special announcement that said “MORE DLC FIGHTERS NOW IN DEVELOPMENT!”. That is fighterS. Plural. What this tells me is we have a minimum of 2 characters that have been being worked on for about a year at this point. Considering Sakurai has said it takes about a year to develop a new character, that tells me we’re absolutely in for a wild ride here soon considering they have 2 or potentially even 3 fighters ready to showcase.

 

[Dukefire]

Here is a famitsu column about Sakurai explaining the challenges working at home.
Click here

 

[QQS]

My hope is intact guys!

What I believe is happening next week:

-Reveal of #76 with multiple ARMS reps, each with some unique moves. Available later today
-Reveal of #77 with Geno in the middle of the ARMS trailer or at the end with Mario and Kirby stuff, probable starting with the Geno Awakens scene to kill our hearts. Half believing it will be a later today (to compensate us for the semester without news) and half believing it will be just showed and available in July.
-Probably even a “Crash is coming to Smash” teaser or full CGI. Available many months later.

With those reveals (76-77-78) the FP2 would be absolutely well sold. One character for Nintendo, one for the insane Fan Demand and one for the Western World, the global mascot. Pretty sure it will be worth the wait if they just make a double reveal, though.

At this point, Geno and Crash are a must and they happening, I don’t have proofs but neither doubts. With this, Smash will reviva again on the Hype Train for at least 2 years more. And also we would have 3 more DLC and probably even more Bonuses, as the section on the official page maybe suggests.

 

[Fatmanonice]

To add onto this theory that we are about to get more than one reveal, the last Nintendo Direct was September 4, 2019. After they showed Terry was when they had a special announcement that said “MORE DLC FIGHTERS NOW IN DEVELOPMENT!”. That is fighterS. Plural. What this tells me is we have a minimum of 2 characters that have been being worked on for about a year at this point. Considering Sakurai has said it takes about a year to develop a new character, that tells me we’re absolutely in for a wild ride here soon considering they have 2 or potentially even 3 fighters ready to showcase.

Exactly. Season 2 started work last June/July so we're either close or already past the one year anniversary mark. Add this to the fact that ARMS could have theoretically been ready to show in some form as early as February so I find it hard to believe that, almost 5 months later, ARMS is the only thing totally done and ready to go. If you want to be filled with even more existential dread, Cacomallow was 8 1/2 months ago and, even if you're super pessimistic, 6 clearly isn't Square or Bethesda, meaning it's evidence of stuff coming with 7 at the earliest, which we've established would be a June release at the earliest too before all the Covid stuff. To put this in perspective, 8 1/2 months was basically the entire time length of Smash 4's DLC. How many characters have been announced in that timespan? Two. Released? Literally one.

 

[xpnc]

I'm curious if the second pass's characters will have CGI trailers like the first one did. I know Smash 4's DLC didn't have any, not really, and I imagine this was for budgetary reasons. Out of all the characters for the first pass, the only one with a wholly unique CGI-trailer was Hero, who was supposed to be in the base-game to begin with.

• I'm pretty sure Joker's trailer was done by Atlus, it seems to match the style of Persona 5
• Banjo's trailer reused assets from the K. Rool trailer, obviously
• Terry's trailer was an edited amalgamation of a bunch of the openings for the King of Fighters games
• Byleth's was done by Anima, like everything else Fire Emblem

When talking about Joker's reveal, he said:

I’m not sure about whether or not we’ll do reveal movies for the other DLC fighters, but I’d like to do what I can (within the realm of possibility) to make sure you all enjoy them.

Would be a bit anticlimactic to go back to the gameplay-only trailers like Smash 4's DLC got, but I can definitely see it being the case

 

[MattX20]

Exactly. Season 2 started work last June/July so we're either close or already past the one year anniversary mark. Add this to the fact that ARMS could have theoretically been ready to show in some form as early as February so I find it hard to believe that, almost 5 months later, ARMS is the only thing totally done and ready to go. If you want to be filled with even more existential dread, Cacomallow was 8 1/2 months ago and, even if you're super pessimistic, 6 clearly isn't Square or Bethesda, meaning it's evidence of stuff coming with 7 at the earliest, which we've established would be a June release at the earliest too before all the Covid stuff. To put this in perspective, 8 1/2 months was basically the entire time length of Smash 4's DLC. How many characters have been announced in that timespan? Two. Released? Literally one.

It really doesn't make sense to expect only FP6 when taking all this into account. I know expectations must be tempered, but anything less than 2 considering how long the second fighter pass has been in development for is baffling to consider

 

[JarBear]

Here is a famitsu column about Sakurai explaining the challenges working at home.
Click here

good, finally some transparency. I totally understand there has been delays due to the virus, no question about it and is completely understandable. It make sense SINCE the virus things have shifted. But the question is still there, PRIOR to all this, the whole fighter's pass two has been quite strange in comparison to both Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate's Fighter's Pass 1.

 

[CannonStreak]

Just to make sure, did working at home at Japan end last month or is it still going?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Just to make sure, did working at home at Japan end last month or is it still going?

Pretty sure it’s still going. At least for Nintendo.

 

[CannonStreak]

Pretty sure it’s still going. At least for Nintendo.

I thought so, honestly. Such a shame,

 

[Enigma735]

I have to come clean here. As much as I love Smash, next week was like the one week I was hoping we would NOT get this character, not just because its the last week in June, but because next week is the week SpongeBob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Rehydrated releases, which I am extremely hyped for btw, and if the character releases next week, then its probably very little time I will have to actually play that game.

The thing is, the character will most likely release next week.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think the whole thing depends on the context if we do get a dedicated direct or even a Smash Direct I think we’re pretty solid at expecting 2. But if we just get an announcement of a Presentation on FP6 I don’t think we should expect another reveal we did that with Terry and despite having ONLY TERRY printed out in the description people were still upset it was only them.

If I had to be honest what my prediction would be is we get a presentation next week with JUST the Arms character and then a direct sometime next month with FP7 & 8 and... I think that’ll be all we get this year. Y’all have to remember this is a VERY small team compared to base game and Pass 1. 3 this year and 3 next, even if they finish pretty early is also very plausible.

 

[JarBear]

SEE you all in June 2021 for the release of Fighter 6!

 

[Fatmanonice]

good, finally some transparency. I totally understand there has been delays due to the virus, no question about it and is completely understandable. It make sense SINCE the virus things have shifted. But the question is still there, PRIOR to all this, the whole fighter's pass two has been quite strange in comparison to both Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate's Fighter's Pass 1.

We even did a big ol' analysis thanks to Slender a few weeks ago and determined that they technically work on FOUR characters at a time. In December 2018, Sakurai said on Twitter that they were working on Joker, Hero, and Banjo, meaning Plant was basically good to go two months out. We then spread this out and determined that, based on this, Byleth was close to sliding off the work bench in the same month as Cacomallow, meaning 6, 7, and 8 were theoretically being worked on already. Remember, Byleth's announcement was delayed but they basically came out on time, literally days before February 2020.

So, same optics, if Plant through Banjo were being worked on in December 2018, Byleth through 8 were being worked on in December 2019. By February 2020, it's 6 through 9. By April, 7 through 10. Obviously that doesn't sound right and, once again, Sakurai did make the team start working from home until April. It just doesn't line up.

 

[Vector Victor]

Pretty sure it’s still going. At least for Nintendo.

I wouldn't be surprised that even when this thing is over and things are back as they should be that companies start adopting some measures to have an option to work from home, even one day a week. Reducing traffic, not needing to heat/cool a while building, more employee flexibility.

So naturally that means Geno and 23 more fighters, naturally.

 

[pinshadow]

I think the whole thing depends on the context if we do get a dedicated direct or even a Smash Direct I think we’re pretty solid at expecting 2. But if we just get an announcement of a Presentation on FP6 I don’t think we should expect another reveal we did that with Terry and despite having ONLY TERRY printed out in the description people were still upset it was only them.

If I had to be honest what my prediction would be is we get a presentation next week with JUST the Arms character and then a direct sometime next month with FP7 & 8 and... I think that’ll be all we get this year. Y’all have to remember this is a VERY small team compared to base game and Pass 1. 3 this year and 3 next, even if they finish pretty early is also very plausible.

Why are we assumming the team shrunk between Pass 1 and 2? What, do you think Nintendo and Namco looked at 18 million sales, THE BEST SELLING FIGHTING GAME OF ALL TIME, and just said "ok, go make 6 more characters but we're also shrinking the team a bunch". Why?

 

[CannonStreak]

With Nintendo still doing the work at home thing, I am worried there will be no reveal next week.

 

[xpnc]

I have to come clean here. As much as I love Smash, next week was like the one week I was hoping we would NOT get this character, not just because its the last week in June, but because next week is the week SpongeBob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Rehydrated releases, which I am extremely hyped for btw, and if the character releases next week, then its probably very little time I will have to actually play that game.

The thing is, the character will most likely release next week.

I'll be sure to send it up the chain so Sakurai doesn't interfere with your Spongebob time

 

[Deleted member]

Ok I predicted a new Alex Kidd game, Giratina in the new Pokémon DLC, Chex Quest HD, a new console Transformers game, Skate 4 and a lot more stuff which all happened this month.

So mark my words:

Geno will get revealed alongside the Arms rep.

 

[Vector Victor]

Why are we assumming the team shrunk between Pass 1 and 2? What, do you think Nintendo and Namco looked at 18 million sales, THE BEST SELLING FIGHTING GAME OF ALL TIME, and just said "ok, go make 6 more characters but we're also shrinking the team a bunch". Why?

To be fair, they have minimal people working on the main series in Pokemon, based off SwiSh's development.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Ok I predicted a new Alex Kidd game, Giratina in the new Pokémon DLC, Chex Quest HD, a new console Transformers game, Skate 4 and a lot more stuff which all happened this month.

So mark my words:

Geno will get revealed alongside the Arms rep.

Yo, I predicted Pichu in basegame and Banjo in FP1 and I'm about to predict Geno in FP2. Now we got 2 credible insiders leaking him!

Spoiler

Just ignore all the times I made wrong predictions and I'm super duper credible

 

[Enigma735]

I'll be sure to send it up the chain so Sakurai doesn't interfere with your Spongebob time

I'm not afraid to admit I'm a manchild who is excited for a SpongeBob game lol