Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Let Geno Smash]

Nintendo had JUST announced a new Pokemon DLC Direct
PD: It was a bad joke from a pokemon direct last year

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I will never understand why detractors are a thing in the Smash community. Like, I seriously don't get it. They always act like they know whats gonna happen and that we should move on and let go of our hopes and dreams. Literally every newcomer in Ultimate has been unpredictable in some way. Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo were discussed for years, and THOUSANDS of detractors existed for those characters acting like they would never happen. Before Simon was revealed, people probably would have called him too irrelevant to get in Smash, and literally not a single soul thought Richter would get included along with him. People thought characters like Daisy, Dark Samus, and Chrom would be too similar to Peach, Samus and another Fire Emblem character to get included. Before Isabelle was revealed, I saw tons of people claim Animal Crossing will not get another rep since Villager was hard to make as is, and if Isabelle were to be anything, she would be an Echo. Instead, she ended up having her own unique moveset. Before many insiders jumped the Incineroar bandwagon, literally every person thought the Gen 7 Pokemon would have been Decidueye. People said Ken wouldn't happen because a third-party franchise can't have more then one playable representative. People would have made fun of you if someone actually considered a Piranha Plant to be an actual playable character. Literally Joker and Terry weren't on anyone's radar at all. A Dragon Quest rep was never brought in to discussion at all for who the next Square rep would be after Cloud until after he was leaked, people thought their were too much FE characters and that the Fighters Pass would be all third-party characters, yet Byleth gets included, and so much people have said that ARMS was never popular and thus is why it will never happen. The only character that I could say was basically inevitable for Ultimate prior to their reveal was Inkling because it was a character from a new Nintendo IP that sold gangbusters. Every other character have been unpredictable in some way and some were widely believed to never happen.

The point I am trying to make is, don't let detractors get to you. Any video game character is possible. If Sakurai wants to include someone like Bubsy the Bobcat, he will include Bubsy the Bobcat. These fan-made rules like the Spirits, Assist Trophy, and Nintendo history rule are just observations and nothing more then that. Just because it hasn't happened yet does not mean it will never happen, and Geno will always have a chance, despite what detractors say

It's because people don't want the characters they deem unworthy to get in over the ones they deem worthy.

That and differing opinions about what Smash means and represents (Nintendo crossover vs. video game crossover)

 

[Enigma735]

It's because people don't want the characters they deem unworthy to get in over the ones they deem worthy.

That and differing opinions about what Smash means and represents (Nintendo crossover vs. video game crossover)

This. The Smash community is just filled with know-it-alls that act like they are above everyone else.

 

[Droodle]

I don't really use SNES online, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it free if you get the monthly online subscription?

One reason why it may take certain longer for certain 3rd party companies to put games on there is because it's harder to work out a deal with this type of system. With the SNES Mini, since it's a singular product then Nintendo can just pay a large chunk of money to 3rd party companies relative to how popular they think the games will be, on top of that they could split up the money earned from sales of the SNES mini depending on each company.

With the way that SNES online works, it's harder for larger 3rd party companies to justifying "investing" in such a system. There are no traceable "sales", so the only way they can really earn a profit is if Nintendo pays them a large sum up front for even putting them up there. Tracking switch online purchases after something goes onto SNES online doesn't work because I doubt most people get Switch online for SNES games (though there are some that definitely do). On top of this I don't think a lot of big companies want their games up permanently, unless they get payed at regular intervals to "renew" the deal and I doubt Nintendo is super interested in running a SNES Netflix. This would explain why most SNES games have been 1st party or smaller 3rd party series, larger 3rd party series/games would require a lot of investment for a system like SNES Online to really work.

Personally, I do think we'll end up seeing payable NES/SNES games on the Switch in the future. Then I think we'll start seeing some of the bigger 3rd party games like Chrono Trigger, SMRPG, FF 1-6, Mega Man, and Street Fighter. Right now, these games have little reason to get put in Switch Online when people would be willing to actually buy these 3rd party games.

 

[pinshadow]

I don't really use SNES online, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it free if you get the monthly online subscription?

One reason why it may take certain longer for certain 3rd party companies to put games on there is because it's harder to work out a deal with this type of system. With the SNES Mini, since it's a singular product then Nintendo can just pay a large chunk of money to 3rd party companies relative to how popular they think the games will be, on top of that they could split up the money earned from sales of the SNES mini depending on each company.

With the way that SNES online works, it's harder for larger 3rd party companies to justifying "investing" in such a system. There are no traceable "sales", so the only way they can really earn a profit is if Nintendo pays them a large sum up front for even putting them up there. Tracking switch online purchases after something goes onto SNES online doesn't work because I doubt most people get Switch online for SNES games (though there are some that definitely do). On top of this I don't think a lot of big companies want their games up permanently, unless they get payed at regular intervals to "renew" the deal and I doubt Nintendo is super interested in running a SNES Netflix. This would explain why most SNES games have been 1st party or smaller 3rd party series, larger 3rd party series/games would require a lot of investment for a system like SNES Online to really work.

Personally, I do think we'll end up seeing payable NES/SNES games on the Switch in the future. Then I think we'll start seeing some of the bigger 3rd party games like Chrono Trigger, SMRPG, FF 1-6, Mega Man, and Street Fighter. Right now, these games have little reason to get put in Switch Online when people would be willing to actually buy these 3rd party games.

Well yea, we've been over this, that's why stuff like Mega Man X and Super Castlevania 4 aren't on there because they have their own collections and stuff. The difference between other third party stuff and something like Mario RPG or DKC is that those games are owned partially BY Nintendo. They aren't going to get re-released any other way as Nintendo clearly is only interested in SNES online. It's not like there was any issue with those games being on the SNES Classic, Nintendo had to pay for them there and they would pay licenses for them again now, it's the exact same situation.

 

[YsDisciple]

Today Nintendo's YouTube channel has been a bit more active with game announcements. First it uploaded the Minecraft Dungeons launch trailer, then the Mortal Kombat 11 Aftermath official launch trailer, and just a few minutes ago the Borderlands Legendary Collection "What's included" trailer. One new trailer after each hour since the past three hours or so. Imo, these trailers feel like Direct announcements (such as the Nintendo Switch headlines from previous directs). Being the last week of May, hopefully we could have a steady stream of trailer uploads (hourly) between today and Thursday? Then once June kicks off (around Tuesday tho) we might be getting heavier announcements.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly I think one of the bigger frustrations of SNES online is not including high profile first party games that weren't in the SNES Classic; DKC2/3, Mario All-Stars, Yoshi's Cookie, Wario's Woods, etc.

 

[Polarthief]

Honestly I think one of the bigger frustrations of SNES online is not including high profile first party games that weren't in the SNES Classic; DKC2/3, Mario All-Stars, Yoshi's Cookie, Wario's Woods, etc.

Sadly I doubt All-Stars, even though it's the version of SMB1-3 I grew up with, and still prefer over the originals. But they're on the NES library so it seems kinda redundant to get both, as much as I'd love it.

DKC, there's no excuse why it's not on there yet. Same with Yoshi's Cookie and Wario's Woods.

 

[Droodle]

Well yea, we've been over this, that's why stuff like Mega Man X and Super Castlevania 4 aren't on there because they have their own collections and stuff. The difference between other third party stuff and something like Mario RPG or DKC is that those games are owned partially BY Nintendo. They aren't going to get re-released any other way as Nintendo clearly is only interested in SNES online. It's not like there was any issue with those games being on the SNES Classic, Nintendo had to pay for them there and they would pay licenses for them again now, it's the exact same situation.

Yeah, that makes a bit more sense. One correction though, I'm pretty sure that even though Rare developed DKC, Nintendo fully owns everything in DKC. Whereas, something like SMRPG has elements that are owned by both companies.

That said, I still think we can't really say "well, they got them for SNES mini; that means that they can get them for SNES Online". Like I said before, we have 0 clue on how that deal worked. Did they pay them a flat sum, a % of sales, or a bit of both? In the case of the latter 2, that deal is harder to transfer over to something like SNES Online. I think both Square and Nintendo know that Nintendo can't keep on relying on it's backlog of 1st party SNES games/smaller 3rd party games forever, eventually they would have to pay more for the bigger 3rd party titles or allow the sale of popular 3rd party SNES games individually.

In which case, my point still doesn't change. It's completely possible that a good chunk of these 3rd party SNES games are waiting for the ability to sell them individually. SMRPG is still one of them.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Guys, Wario's Woods and Yoshi's Cookie are already on SNES Online, cool your jets. I've played Wario's Woods just the other day and Yoshi's Cookie is just Panel del Pon, the same way Kirby's Avalanche is just Puyo Puyo.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Guys, Wario's Woods and Yoshi's Cookie are already on SNES Online, cool your jets. I've played Wario's Woods just the other day and Yoshi's Cookie is just Panel del Pon, the same way Kirby's Avalanche is just Puyo Puyo.

Somewhat correct about Wario's Woods (its the NES, not SNES version that's on the online service), but Tetris Attack was the Western Panel del Pon. It have a Yoshi theme, but its a separate game from Yoshi's Cookie.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Correct about Wario's Woods, but Tetris Attack, not Yoshi's Cookie was the Western Panel del Pon. It have a Yoshi theme, but its a separate game from Yoshi's Cookie.

Also, I guess a correction but Wario's Woods is on NES online, not SNES online.

 

[AdamBel731]

I'm under the impression that the ARMS character will still be shown off in June since Sakurai says him and his team have remained on schedule. As such, I really hope that means the character gets released soon after.

I would also like to know about Fighter #7, because right now I'm just sitting here trying to keep cool and not lose my mind out from the lack of any Smash news

*Me just trying to chill out and wait for news but I can't even go outside or do anything, so I'm actually freaking out on the inside

(Please no delays. ...I'd understand due to the virus and stuff, but I can't take this drought much longer.)

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In the grand scheme of things their absence isn't the biggest deal, it just feels like a bit of a missed opportunity of sorts. Same with not having any Game Boy or Game Boy Color titles on there.

 

[pinshadow]

Yeah, that makes a bit more sense. One correction though, I'm pretty sure that even though Rare developed DKC, Nintendo fully owns everything in DKC. Whereas, something like SMRPG has elements that are owned by both companies.

That said, I still think we can't really say "well, they got them for SNES mini; that means that they can get them for SNES Online". Like I said before, we have 0 clue on how that deal worked. Did they pay them a flat sum, a % of sales, or a bit of both? In the case of the latter 2, that deal is harder to transfer over to something like SNES Online. I think both Square and Nintendo know that Nintendo can't keep on relying on it's backlog of 1st party SNES games/smaller 3rd party games forever, eventually they would have to pay more for the bigger 3rd party titles or allow the sale of popular 3rd party SNES games individually.

In which case, my point still doesn't change. It's completely possible that a good chunk of these 3rd party SNES games are waiting for the ability to sell them individually. SMRPG is still one of them.

DKC is super weird rights wise, Nintendo clearly owns all of the characters but the games themselves are weird, you would think Nintendo owns them entirely but they were delisted for several years off the virtual console so clearly there's something else going on there with Rare. Obviously it seems like it's been sorted out but that just makes it not being on SNES Online even more peculiar.

Super Mario RPG though? Nintendo clearly has some control over how that gets published. For whatever reason Square refused to have any of their Wii U virtual console games be released outside of Japan for basically no reason. Pretty much the only game that actually got re released here from them was Super Mario RPG. It's still a Nintendo published game featuring the Red Man himself and they aren't going to let Square rerelease it outside of SNES Online.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Guys, Wario's Woods and Yoshi's Cookie are already on SNES Online, cool your jets. I've played Wario's Woods just the other day and Yoshi's Cookie is just Panel del Pon, the same way Kirby's Avalanche is just Puyo Puyo.

But? Didn't you need a mouse for wario's woods?

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

But? Didn't you need a mouse for wario's woods?

They have the controls for it linked like a platformer-tetris fusion. I think. It's been a week.

 

[Polarthief]

Yoshi's Cookie is just Panel del Pon

That's Tetris Attack. Yoshi's Cookie is a completely different game.

Also just because it's a reskin doesn't mean it's the same game. I didn't grow up with PdP, so I see it as "weird Japanese fairy game" instead of "Yoshi game I grew up with", also while I'd be willing to give it a try, good luck convincing my sister to play it. "Ew, it's way too Japanese for me" would be her response, despite it being a mechanically-same game as the one we played growing up.

All that said, Pokemon Puzzle League is the best out of all of them anyway.

 

[TriggerX]

Yeah, that makes a bit more sense. One correction though, I'm pretty sure that even though Rare developed DKC, Nintendo fully owns everything in DKC. Whereas, something like SMRPG has elements that are owned by both companies.

That said, I still think we can't really say "well, they got them for SNES mini; that means that they can get them for SNES Online". Like I said before, we have 0 clue on how that deal worked. Did they pay them a flat sum, a % of sales, or a bit of both? In the case of the latter 2, that deal is harder to transfer over to something like SNES Online. I think both Square and Nintendo know that Nintendo can't keep on relying on it's backlog of 1st party SNES games/smaller 3rd party games forever, eventually they would have to pay more for the bigger 3rd party titles or allow the sale of popular 3rd party SNES games individually.

In which case, my point still doesn't change. It's completely possible that a good chunk of these 3rd party SNES games are waiting for the ability to sell them individually. SMRPG is still one of them.

Its probably structured more like Netflix and other video streaming services. They just pay for the license to use it on their service. So its most likely a flat sum.
Considering games can be played offline for like a week, it sounds like the most likely case.

This means that games like SMRPG are a little bit more trouble to deal with for an online service because the cost for the license probably isn't worth the new subscribers they would potentially get.

Donkey Kong Country may be in the same boat as well. who knows. Might be a bit of a Marvel Universe situation where specific rights are tied up with those particular games themselves or certain characters within that IP.

Overall the virtual console catalogue has the potential to be so much more. I mean there's really no excuse why we don't have N64, GBA, GB, and GBC as options. Both Nintendo and Sony should take some notes from Microsoft as how to execute this kind of service.

 

[Polarthief]

Donkey Kong Country may be in the same boat as well. who knows. Might be a bit of a Marvel Universe situation where specific rights are tied up with those particular games themselves or certain characters within that IP.

AFAIK, DKC is owned 100% by Nintendo; they acquired those rights when Rare was bought by Microsoft IIRC, so there's no reason it shouldn't be on it by now.
PS: Looking at the game's credits may be outdated, so don't use that as proof of anything.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sakurai said no delays so I get the feeling that whatever was going to be announced at E3 is probably still going to be announced, especially in the light that ARMS was already delayed two months. This is yet another reason why I think we could get 6, 7, and 8 in June because I seriously doubt the original plans for E3 were just 7. Nintendo's never done a singular Smash character announcement for E3, it's always been at least double. I mean, ****, Ridley and Banjo were doubles and almost everyone agrees it will be super hard to top them (giggity) and that they were two of the most wanted characters ever. If those two weren't "big enough" to reveal by themselves, who is? This point is highlighted even more the further you go back. Ryu, Mr Fighting Games? Not good enough. Pac-Man, basically the oldest successful third party character? Not good enough. Megaman, probably the second most wanted third party character ever in Smash? Not good enough. Snake, the first third party character in Smash ever? Not good enough. Not even Peach or Bowser were revealed at E3 2001 alone and they're some of the most important Nintendo characters, period. This all said, for 7 to be revealed by themselves would be a hell of a statement if Bowser and Peach didn't even get this treatment, especially for E ****in' 3 2020 when Microsoft AND Sony have new consoles coming up. 7 would have to be a Mickey Mouse or Goku level announcement to warrant being revealed alone if they couldn't justify this for Megaman or Ridley and I don't see that happening.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What's new in the world of Geno support?

 

[MattX20]

What's new in the world of Geno support?

Apart from the fact we're potentially in the endgame for it with June on the horizon and that this thread has garnered over 109,000 posts, admittedly not much

 

[Polarthief]

What's new in the world of Geno support?

Oh, whoops, ooh! I dropped our monster list that I use for our magnum evidence.

Besides the June 12th Amiibo restock and the September restock on Cloud+Mario Amiibo (and others), nothing really. Still looking good though. Many losing faith cuz of the Paper Mario tOK reveal but I'm not worried.

 

[Megadoomer]

AFAIK, DKC is owned 100% by Nintendo; they acquired those rights when Rare was bought by Microsoft IIRC, so there's no reason it shouldn't be on it by now.
PS: Looking at the game's credits may be outdated, so don't use that as proof of anything.

DKC is fully owned by Nintendo, and it's been re-released on the Wii and Wii U before. The only thing I can think of would be the presence of Killer Instinct content in DKC2 (there's a Killer Instinct arcade cabinet in Cranky's room) that might cause an issue, but that shouldn't stop DKC1 from being included like it was with the SNES Mini.

 

[Polarthief]

DKC is fully owned by Nintendo, and it's been re-released on the Wii and Wii U before. The only thing I can think of would be the presence of Killer Instinct content in DKC2 (there's a Killer Instinct arcade cabinet in Cranky's room) that might cause an issue, but that shouldn't stop DKC1 from being included like it was with the SNES Mini.

It can't be that hard to remove unowned IP references from SNES games though, can it?

 

[Fatmanonice]

What's new in the world of Geno support?

Not much. Just waiting for our Sakurai ordained Big **** Energy permit to arrive so I can frame it with a nice sandalwood frame and hang it up in the Geno fanbase HQ lobby.

 

[Polarthief]

Not much. Just waiting for our Sakurai ordained Big **** Energy permit to arrive so I can frame it with a nice sandalwood frame and hang it up in the Geno fanbase HQ lobby.

Gonna look great in the new room once I finally move out of this house next week! *he says as he still cleans while typing this, reeeee*

 

[Megadoomer]

It can't be that hard to remove unowned IP references from SNES games though, can it?

I don't know how it all works. The games made it onto previous Nintendo consoles without that stuff needing to be removed (DK64 had a full Rare game in there, Jetpac, and it made it onto the Wii U regardless), so I can't think it would be a major issue that's keeping the entire trilogy from being re-released. (plus, the Killer Instinct stuff might be in the same boat as the references to Sonic and Earthworm Jim in DKC2, where they didn't need permission from the people who made them)

 

[Polarthief]

I don't know how it all works. The games made it onto previous Nintendo consoles without that stuff needing to be removed (DK64 had a full Rare game in there, Jetpac, and it made it onto the Wii U regardless), so I can't think it would be a major issue that's keeping the entire trilogy from being re-released. (plus, the Killer Instinct stuff might be in the same boat as the references to Sonic and Earthworm Jim in DKC2, where they didn't need permission from the people who made them)

Well there's a difference between a VC purchase and something that 100% of online subscription-owners get included, but yeah. I still think it shouldn't be too hard to remove them if need be. Alternatively, Microsoft could just be like "aight, but you're gonna advertise our crap for Smush" or something, lol. Sakurai already pushed people to "go play Banjo-Kazooie on Xbox" after all. (though if RR comes to Switch, he should go back and edit that video to say "or buy RR on Switch, lul")

 

[YsDisciple]

Watching a playthrough of FF VI just now I thought that, some nice Mii Costumes that could come along with Geno could be Cecil (FF IV), and Terra (FF VI).

 

[Megadoomer]

Watching a playthrough of FF VI just now I thought that, some nice Mii Costumes that could come along with Geno could be Cecil (FF IV), and Terra (FF VI).

I wouldn't mind seeing a Sephiroth Mii costume if it came with One Winged Angel, like how the Sans or Cuphead costumes came with songs. They could even base it on an in-game model!

Obviously, it's not ideal, but if it's the only way to get more Final Fantasy music in Smash, I'd gladly get Mii costumes.

 

[protoblues]

Sakurai said no delays so I get the feeling that whatever was going to be announced at E3 is probably still going to be announced, especially in the light that ARMS was already delayed two months. This is yet another reason why I think we could get 6, 7, and 8 in June because I seriously doubt the original plans for E3 were just 7. Nintendo's never done a singular Smash character announcement for E3, it's always been at least double. I mean, ****, Ridley and Banjo were doubles and almost everyone agrees it will be super hard to top them (giggity) and that they were two of the most wanted characters ever. If those two weren't "big enough" to reveal by themselves, who is? This point is highlighted even more the further you go back. Ryu, Mr Fighting Games? Not good enough. Pac-Man, basically the oldest successful third party character? Not good enough. Megaman, probably the second most wanted third party character ever in Smash? Not good enough. Snake, the first third party character in Smash ever? Not good enough. Not even Peach or Bowser were revealed at E3 2001 alone and they're some of the most important Nintendo characters, period. This all said, for 7 to be revealed by themselves would be a hell of a statement if Bowser and Peach didn't even get this treatment, especially for E ****in' 3 2020 when Microsoft AND Sony have new consoles coming up. 7 would have to be a Mickey Mouse or Goku level announcement to warrant being revealed alone if they couldn't justify this for Megaman or Ridley and I don't see that happening.

I think anticipating a triple reveal in June might be setting ourselves up for disappointment. Nintendo is adapting to COVID-19 by nixing big directs in favor of shadow drops like we saw with Origami King. Even if development hasn't fallen behind, the safe play is to hold fire in case it does later on.

It would make sense to tease the next character after the June reveal. Let's hope we see 7 then and not worry too much about when we'll see 8.

Also just because it's a reskin doesn't mean it's the same game. I didn't grow up with PdP, so I see it as "weird Japanese fairy game" instead of "Yoshi game I grew up with"

To each their own? I grew up with Tetris Attack too but have loved Lip & Co ever since I found out they existed. The full character art in VS mode has such a cool, '90s Sailor Moon vibe. You can tell they were trying to position the franchise to go head-to-head with Puyo Puyo and it's really a shame they weren't successful.

 

[Sigran101]

You know what's always funny? When people argue that spirits deconfirm for lore reasons. That has to be the single dumbest argument people make and it cracks me up every time.

 

[Polarthief]

To each their own? I grew up with Tetris Attack too but have loved Lip & Co ever since I found out they existed. The full character art in VS mode has such a cool, '90s Sailor Moon vibe. You can tell they were trying to position the franchise to go head-to-head with Puyo Puyo and it's really a shame they weren't successful.

By no means am I saying PdP is a bad game; I've barely seen it, I'm just saying from my own personal experience, it's not what I grew up with, and it's definitely not something I'll be able to get my sister to play with me, while we used to have extremely heated Puzzle League matches. I'm sure I'll probably enjoy it in the end (unless it's still in Japanese?) but I personally would have preferred Tetris Attack (or hell just give us both because why not; rename it to Yoshi de Pon if you have to, lol).

You know what's always funny? When people argue that spirits deconfirm for lore reasons. That has to be the single dumbest argument people make and it cracks me up every time.

Ah yes, all those lore-breaking reasons that anyone has ever given a crap about, even if you start a new file on WoL right now, you're handed all the DLC fighters on top of Kirby.

Anyone who claims "LORE REASON" is just a dumb who is hating for the sake of hating.

 

[Qeomash]

Watching a playthrough of FF VI just now I thought that, some nice Mii Costumes that could come along with Geno could be Cecil (FF IV), and Terra (FF VI).

Classic Final Fantasy has such great potential for costumes and fighters. They had enough characters to make their own roster fighter (Dissidia), it's a shame we only have Cloud.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Smash Fans: "Guys, CacoMallow is fake, they managed to prove quality Mii hat modding is possible uwu"
The "quality" Mii hat mod:

 

[Megadoomer]

You know what's always funny? When people argue that spirits deconfirm for lore reasons. That has to be the single dumbest argument people make and it cracks me up every time.

Ah, yes, Smash Bros., a game that stays strict and consistent with its lore. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play a Smash Bros. match involving the Fire Emblem Awakening cast, where I can have Robin use his Final Smash to summon Chrom in order to attack Chrom and Lucina.

 

[Polarthief]

Ah, yes, Smash Bros., a game that stays strict and consistent with its lore. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play a Smash Bros. match involving the Fire Emblem Awakening cast, where I can have Robin use his Final Smash to summon Chrom in order to attack Chrom and Lucina.

"I'm one of those weird people that enjoys playing fighting games... for their story."
Even though the story/lore of Smash is basically nothing and totally BS and I highly doubt was ever meant to be taken seriously.

 

[JarBear]

Also, excuse me while I play my main man Mario against his true nemesis, Dr. Mario.

...

Smash Lore has no holes.