Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Griselda]

Given how ludicrously successful Ultimate has been, I don't think we're going to see another Smash game for a long time, and Sakurai is almost assuredly going to take a very long break after this.

I think it'd be the exact opposite, or if it isn't it should be. Consider that that would essentially be 'This game has made us more money than anything else recently, let's not do it again'. Consider also that while Sakurai regularly looks tired, and makes statements about it, we need to remember that he does not work alone and do everything himself. I love the man, but to be completely honest, his unhealthy working style is entirely on him, and not necessarily a natural result of working on Smash. If it was, then we'd be hearing about most of the dev team being hospitalized from overworking, but instead we just hear that about Sakurai.

I feel this is pretty important to say at this point: Masahiro Sakurai needs to take a break, but not working on Smash doesn't automatically mean that he won't go off and do the same thing on another title in the meantime. He personally has a very unhealthy approach to working (one which I understand, having struggled with similar in the past), and that's something that he needs to work through in his personal life. And let's be honest, even if Sakurai retires outright, Smash is far too successful and important to Nintendo to let it die. There's been one on every major console since the N64, remember.
Here's a clip from a translated interview from Sakurai, regarding Brawl.

It was the day before E3, May 2005. I sat in the assembly hall for Nintendo’s presentation for distributors. There, Nintendo announced that they were working on a new ‘Smash’ for their new gaming system codenamed, Revolution. People started clapping. “What?” I thought. At the party, people came up to me saying “So, you’re making Smash!?” However, I hadn’t been informed about anything, and it was at that time that I first heard that there was even a Smash project in the works.
Even though I originally created “Smash” as a game designer, I don’t hold any rights* to the game. So, if Nintendo says, “make it”, they can make one, no problem. I don’t really have a problem with that….
*Right
Copyright. According to “Brawl”’s contract, the copyright is forfeited by Sora Ltd. This is in order to make the copyright less complicated.

The rest of the interview then goes on to explain about how if Sakurai had refused the project that had been suddenly thrust upon him, Nintendo's plan had been to simply port Melee and give it online play, which Sakurai was unsure about, claiming,

I really wondered if that would really be a new game. However, I had the image of someone else making an inferior game. It wouldn’t really interest Mr. Iwata. Maybe.

I feel that should be said here, as well, considering how often I've seen the 'port Ultimate forever' idea going around. The interview overall paints the picture of the situation in a pretty gray shade: Nintendo would probably be willing to continue on without Sakurai even if the resulting sequel might just be a glorified port or otherwise feel hollow under another director, but Sakurai's pride probably wouldn't let him remain entirely uninvolved. At least, he'd likely work on the project as an advisor or supervisor.

Considering that many have predicted a long lifespan for the Switch, another Smash game is the only option, if DLC is truly going to end after this pass. They can't very well port a Switch game to the Switch, and DLC is the only other way for them to continue making money from the Smash Bros. series. If they aren't refilling your drink, they're in the back brewing another for you to buy.

 

[CannonStreak]

Given how ludicrously successful Ultimate has been, I don't think we're going to see another Smash game for a long time, and Sakurai is almost assuredly going to take a very long break after this.

I don't think Sakurai is going to have a break after this. I mean, he definitely is not going to work on another Smash Bros. game, but he probably will work on another project, probably working on it just as hard. I do think he will get a break in between, but something tells me he won't have it for long.

 

[TriggerX]

Unless there is an actual software issue (like the game can't handle that many characters), I'd rather they forget making a new Smash and instead just keep adding to Ultimate with characters, even if they are mostly echoes (if they continue echoes).

Clearly SwiSh showed that gutting the roster would not go over well at all, and while sales helped them avoid everything imploding, that may be due to the age group the game focus towards, which Smash won't be able to use as a counter. Plus, a roster revamp also introduces a can of worms that would send the already volatile fanbase into a meltdown: the backlash over not only who got cut but also who were spared.

As far as the switch is concerned, I agree with you. I personally don't think we need another smash bros game at least until another notable console generation appears.
Smash bros could benefit from better network infrastructure and an ssd. Its my understanding SD Cards are slower, and it seems to be Nintendo's main method of storage. That being said, if their next console is a generational leap in terms of technology I would like to see a new smash bros game being developed to take advantage of it. In that sense I feel like there is always room for improvement on Nintendo's part.

As far as roster cuts go, I think everyone would be onboard except square. Capcom, Konami, SNK, Namco, and sega are pretty generous with their characters so it really seems like its a non issue. Microsoft who knows, but my wild guess is that they aren't too concerned either.

 

[Icewolff92]

That's basically how I feel because even most of the characters I didn't want I've kind of become attached to. It's like how Captain Falcon hasn't been relevant in almost 20 years but the Smash fanbase would level entire cities if he was cut. I hated Ike when he first came and now he's my favorite Fire Emblem character. Ice Climbers being cut from Smash 4 unironically hurt so I can't imagine a massive purge for a hypothetical Smash 6 like everyone's predicting. It's like Pokemon: everyone is somebody's favorite and you'd have enough people mad if they got cut.

Which is why I strongly believe that the series will continue as a port.

 

[QQS]

Isn’t this pic amazing? (Credits to the artist please)

Geno joins the battle!

 

[Powerman293]

Octoling’s trailer could also have a Galeem-centered theme to complement Hero’s Dharkon-centered theme, as Galeem’s Aura could resemble the light aqua “sanitized” aesthetic in Octo Expansion

we could also have a trailer that encompasses both, like at the final battle of WoL. Almost any character who’s a Spirit could pull that off I think, like a “surprise, I’m not gonna sit on the sidelines anymore!”

Nah, the character that'll show up during the Final Boss of WoL cuts end is Mastef Chief.

 

[CannonStreak]

Pretty soon, it will be May, making it one month before E3.....or at least one month before E3 was supposed to happen before it got cancelled. Still, I can't wait for Nintendo's June Direct that may show up by then. I wonder if Geno will be revealed in Smash, and if so, I wonder how his trailer will be like?

 

[Spatulo]

View attachment 270434
Isn’t this pic amazing? (Credits to the artist please)

Geno joins the battle!

To this day, Geno/Skull Kid art just makes me happy

 

[Qeomash]

Unless there is an actual software issue (like the game can't handle that many characters), I'd rather they forget making a new Smash and instead just keep adding to Ultimate with characters, even if they are mostly echoes (if they continue echoes).

Yup. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I really wish Nintendo would support Ultimate with new characters for the life of the Switch. Even if Sakurai starts working primarily on other games, he should continue to advise the team creating more characters for Smash Ultimate. There are so many characters they could add, and I honestly don't think they should stop until sales drop significantly or the majority of fan requests have been fulfilled.

 

[SSGuy]

I kind of don't want another Smash game after Ultimate. Low key, this is probably the last one I will actually be involved with. I got other things to worry about. I hope Ultimate lasts for a long time because I don't think any other iteration will top this game when it is all said and done. Especially if we end up getting Geno into this game. That would make me hope that this game is literally timeless moving forward.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Pretty soon, it will be May, making it one month before E3.....or at least one month before E3 was supposed to happen before it got cancelled. Still, I can't wait for Nintendo's June Direct that may show up by then. I wonder if Geno will be revealed in Smash, and if so, I wonder how his trailer will be like?

We are very close to our victory, I see myself, I am very close to finishing. New trailer, a house at night, we heard "Here are some weapons" and we entered the house where there are many toys on the floor, those who did not play that gem called Super Mario RPG: The Legend Of The Seven Stars that we do I do not know What happens, but if we know it, a soft and sweet melody begins, "Geno wake up", we know it's our day, we see Mario, peach or bowser toys and people scream, Mario VS Donkey on Switch? but a star appears and rotates around the toys and positions itself in one that is not visible to the naked eye, GENO, that toy wakes up, 4chan, twitter and gamefaqs are activated as you have no idea, the detractors who criticized us for "Me love a pinocchio with a gun and a secondary character from an irrelevant game from 20 years ago or that we already had a spirit and that at most gives us a mii as sans ", those detractors are going to burn, the star adapts to his new body and collides with a table in a very stupid and fun way and leaves, a toad: Gaz tells Mario and his mother that his favorite doll came to life and that he went to the forest maze, Mario (with or without a mauve ) They search but are ambushed by the enemies and the toys save them and their home screen arrives, GENO REACHES THE SEVEN STARS, we have gameplay with Remixes of the forest labyrinth and Fight against an armed boss composed by Yoko shimomura while we see neutral attacks l B with Ge no Bea meter; side b is a whirlwind geno, below b there is a geno blash, above b is an original attack in which the star comes out of his body and catapults and the final blow is Geno Flash, it will be (I said it will be, something tells me it's going to happen) beautiful

 

[skydogc]

To this day, Geno/Skull Kid art just makes me happy

PPG: Hey Puppet Pal Skull Kid!
PPSK: Yes Puppet Pal Geno?
PPG: What do you get when you make a successful timed attack?
PPSK: Ahhhhh I do not know Puppet Pal Geno. What do you get when you make a successful timed attack?
PPG: A BONK on the head.
PPSK: ............I don't get it.

 

[CannonStreak]

To this day, Geno/Skull Kid art just makes me happy

LOL That remimds me of the old Wilkins Coffee commercials I have seen on Youtube.

 

[MattX20]

LOL That remimds me of the old Wilkins Coffee commercials I have seen on Youtube.

Some of Jim Henson's earliest work

 

[T2by4]

So what characters does the ARMS rep have to be to not break the spirit/assist trophy rule? Max Brass? Feels a bit weird that they'd add a final boss rather than the main characters. Who can they really use?

 

[Lord Woomy]

So what characters does the ARMS rep have to be to not break the spirit/assist trophy rule? Max Brass? Feels a bit weird that they'd add a final boss rather than the main characters. Who can they really use?

View attachment 270462

At this point, people are less trying to make rules to help with theorizing and are more so theorizing to help fit their rules.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

So what characters does the ARMS rep have to be to not break the spirit/assist trophy rule? Max Brass? Feels a bit weird that they'd add a final boss rather than the main characters. Who can they really use?

....................Mechanica i guess? I don't see why they would go out of their way to avoid the most popular and notorious characters from ARMS just because they are already in the game as Spirits (which is exactly why they are spirits in the game, because they are the most notorious characters from ARMS so it would make sense they were represented, even if it is just as a spirit)

I mean i could understand if they don't want to use Spring Man because it could open the pandora's box of Assist Trophies, but to avoid using Min-Min just because of a Spirit?

 

[CannonStreak]

Some of Jim Henson's earliest work

I know, right? Man, those commercials were funny.

 

[Zinith]

LOL That remimds me of the old Wilkins Coffee commercials I have seen on Youtube.

"I will remember you. Will you remember me? Don't let your life pass you by"

 

[CannonStreak]

"I will remember you. Will you remember me? Don't let your life pass you by"

LOL I am sure others will laugh at the scenes in that video!

 

[#HBC | marshy]

So what characters does the ARMS rep have to be to not break the spirit/assist trophy rule? Max Brass? Feels a bit weird that they'd add a final boss rather than the main characters. Who can they really use?

View attachment 270462

i just want you to kno that ive scrolled up to this meme no less than 3x and laughed every time

 

[SSGuy]

So what characters does the ARMS rep have to be to not break the spirit/assist trophy rule? Max Brass? Feels a bit weird that they'd add a final boss rather than the main characters. Who can they really use?

View attachment 270462

Max Brass has a few things going for him. He is the head of the ARMS Fighting League in canon and I think has the most realized Final Smash out of any ARMS character when you factor in Hedlok appearing on his head and pummeling his opponent with 6 Arms instead of 2. Plus he looks like such a chad that I wouldn't even be mad seeing Max Brass make it in. He would be sick to play as. ARMS has a pretty likable cast to where I would be thrilled to see anyone of them make it in. I'm rooting for the spirit characters first and foremost, but I also am super excited for whoever we get out of it.

If you guys want peace of mind over the ARMS character and Geno's status of whether this makes or breaks Geno's pattern, I want you guys to consider the following that with the way they made the announcement. They didn't just brush aside only 10 of the 15 characters in ARMS are in the running, they treated it as if Spring Man, Min Min, Ribbon Girl etc are all in the running. I think this is well enough evidence that Nintendo clearly does not care for Spirits Deconfirmations. They are going to pick who they think people will like the most and who seems like the most fun to play as. I don't think Nintendo is going to not put a character in all because they already have an in game PNG image. And the same applies to Geno thanks to Nintendo coming out and advertising that every ARMS character is in the running.

If you ask me, all 15 ARMS characters are in the running (And Biff too!)

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

That speculation about DLC Pass 2 only having 5 stages has mewondering a potentially silly question. Does SE own the original locations in addition to characters in Mario RPG? Obviously stuff like Mushroom Kingdom, Yoster's Isle, & Bowser's Keep would likely belong to Nintendo, but could they use a place like Bean Valley if they wanted? Or is that stepping on Square Enix's toes?

 

[Honest Slug]

Even if somehow Nintendo wasn't able to get a Mario RPG stage out of Square. Is there any reason they couldn't pack Geno in with Rainbow Road 3DS or even a stage from Paper Mario Switch if that's a thing?

They explicitly state that each pack will come with a stage, to do otherwise would be false advertising.

 

[Spatulo]

"I will remember you. Will you remember me? Don't let your life pass you by"

JESUS that **** gets dark XD. I’ve never seen these until now and now I know Kermit’s ancestor was apparently a serial killer (of the same guy over and over lol)

 

[CannonStreak]

JESUS that **** gets dark XD. I’ve never seen these until now and now I know Kermit’s ancestor was apparently a serial killer (of the same guy over and over lol)

I like to imagine that Wontkins (the suffering guy's name) is now in a mental hospital from all those deaths and attacks and that Wilkins (the "serial killer") is now in jail because of it.

 

[Polarthief]

So what characters does the ARMS rep have to be to not break the spirit/assist trophy rule? Max Brass? Feels a bit weird that they'd add a final boss rather than the main characters. Who can they really use?

Honestly, it'd have to be Max Brass. Who else would fit? None of the other base characters are popular enough to be the pick/none of them are significant enough. Max Brass is a pretty good symbol for the tournament/"Story Mode" *because* he's the final boss. DLC characters would just be an odd pick; none of them are also popular enough except maaaaybe Dr. Coyle.

At this point, I'll give a 95% chance to be any of the 5 spirits (or multiple of them), a ~4.9% chance of it being Max Brass, and <0.1% chance of being anyone else.

If spirits truly do deconfirm (at which point I'll stop giving a crap about FP2 altogether), it's gonna be Max Brass because he'd be the next closest "mascot" you could use outside of SM/RG. All the characters outside the spirits simply aren't popular enough to be picked over them, and if you can't use the more popular picks, why not go with the pseudo-third mascot? But that's not gonna happen, because Geno is in, so start talking about which of the 5 spirits you'd like best.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

After all this speculation about assist trophies/spirits being elevated and the possibility of a franchise antagonist being playable. won't we all feel silly when the splash screen in June somehow ends up displaying "Lola Pop clowns the competition!"

 

[Polarthief]

After all this speculation about assist trophies/spirits being elevated and the possibility of a franchise antagonist being playable. won't we all feel silly when the splash screen in June somehow ends up displaying "Lola Pop clowns the competition!"

I won't feel silly, I'll feel disgusted and betrayed, honestly. If Nintendo/Sakurai truly let spirits deconfirm, I'll have instantly lost all faith in them (and FP2) because that'd be an incredibly crappy thing to do, putting someone in that is significantly less popular/known than other characters of the game when they're clearly trying to push the franchise to greater heights, because of a freaking JPEG. You don't do that with a random DLC character, you do it with a mascot or a fan-favorite. That'd be like if they pushed a Gen 8 Pokemon rep and it was some random that no one is even talking about like Sandaconda (like literally, who? Crappy Ekans?) or Mr. Rime (I had no idea this thing existed until now and I hate that it exists) over Toxtricity, a starter, a legendary, another popular pick (SirFetch'd, Obstagoon, etc) or hell even Urshifu (yes, I did just say Urshifu would be a better pick than something else, me, Polarthief, the guy who is known to hate the not-Pangoro thing with a passion, the guy who thinks it would be the biggest shill pick ever since Corrin).

PS: I'm still on the fence about ATs; I don't think they'd let them get in the way of adding a new character, but idk if they'd promote a ton of them. Spirits though... I just can't fathom them deconfirming a character.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With Nintendo and Sakurai I can easily see them utilizing an unlikely character not because they lack a spirit, but just for the surprise factor. Pretty much anyone outside the most well known fighters in ARMS would fit that criteria. I don't think its likely, just that I can't entirely discount it either.

 

[Spatulo]

I like to imagine that Wontkins (the suffering guy's name) is now in a mental hospital from all those deaths and attacks and that Wilkins (the "serial killer") is now in jail because of it.

Excuse me their names are “Wilkins” and “Wontkins”?

Thanks, I needed that extra smile today.

 

[Polarthief]

With Nintendo and Sakurai I can easily see them utilizing an unlikely character not because they lack a spirit, but just for the surprise factor. Pretty much anyone outside the most well known fighters in ARMS would fit that criteria. I don't think its likely, just that I can't entirely discount it either.

But that would also turn an exciting reveal of "ooh which fan favorite will be picked" into a "oh good, glad this turned into another shill pick no one wanted".

They could have just revealed the character in the mini direct to cut the BS and surprise us then and there. The surprise factor would have been "oh look, Spirits and ATs don't deconfirm!" with Spring Man suddenly being shown. It'd be the biggest bait-and-switch tease to give us a non-spirit/non-popular character now, after making us wait ~9-10 weeks.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think its just a matter of Nintendo simply having a different set of priorities with Smash reveals than a lot of us fans do. To them there's an inherently logical marketing move of announcing the franchise, but no the the character in order to build hype and speculation over the next few months and keep the question of who it might be in people's minds.

Its entirely possible that the whole quagmire if if/when this breaks previously held patterns about assist trophies is not something that's even occurred to them, or at least hasn't to anyone high up to a significant degree. What is blatantly significant to us can be something entirely outside their thinking and vice versa as well.

 

[Polarthief]

I think its just a matter of Nintendo simply having a different set of priorities with Smash reveals than a lot of us fans do. To them there's an inherently logical marketing move of announcing the franchise, but no the the character in order to build hype and speculation over the next few months and keep the question of who it might be in people's minds.

Its entirely possible that the whole quagmire if if/when this breaks previously held patterns about assist trophies is not something that's even occurred to them, or at least hasn't to anyone high up to a significant degree. What is blatantly significant to us can be something entirely outside their thinking and vice versa as well.

Which is fine, but they're not completely unaware of who a fan favorite character is, especially in a game that released in 2017 in an age where the Internet is a thing virtually everyone has in their pockets. This isn't the NES/SNES days where the Internet was still in its infancy; they're more than aware of who we like, considering they added characters like KKR, Ridley, the Belmonts, and even Daisy and Dark Samus. They had a literal popularity contest in ARMS, of which, Min-Min took the gold. They added the five most popular characters into Smash as spirits, as well as their two mascots as Mii Costumes and one of them also as an assist trophy. To then pull the wool over our eyes while also pushing the game would be an obvious shill and just upset fans instead of simultaneously giving us an ad and giving us a character that a lot of people like to where the character would be generally accepted (would probably be better than Terry's reception while also being literally free advertisement for a game they want to push).

Basically: why pick the extremely inferior choice that will very likely lead to less sales, especially as your lead character for FP2? Leading with such a bad pick sets a bad precedent in peoples' minds for the rest of the FP, and it would absolutely shatter any hopes I would have to getting a single character I would want and just overall make me feel like a total fool for buying the thing day 1 (which I very rarely do to begin with, but I was generally pleased with FP1 and want to support Sakurai/Nintendo when they make good games and (generally) good decisions). It's why I think Max Brass is the only character outside of the 5 spirits just as a last resort backup to "if Spirits truly do deconfirm" because that's how they can spin it and save face. The other 9 characters I do not see any chance in hell of getting in, and if they do, then hell is freezing over, and my fury will be limitless.

 

[CannonStreak]

Excuse me their names are “Wilkins” and “Wontkins”?

Thanks, I needed that extra smile today.

Yep! Those are their names! One will drink Wilkins coffee and the other will not.

 

[Enigma735]

After all this speculation about assist trophies/spirits being elevated and the possibility of a franchise antagonist being playable. won't we all feel silly when the splash screen in June somehow ends up displaying "Lola Pop clowns the competition!"

With how trolly Sakurai can be sometimes, I would not put it past him lol

 

[ARandomZoomer]

I keep seeing people bring up the possibility of there being only 5 stages, but seriously just go to the stage section of the official website and scroll down to the dlc. There's quite clearly 6 question marks for unannounced stages (it looks different on mobile compared desktop but it's the same number)

 

[Polarthief]

With how trolly Sakurai can be sometimes, I would not put it past him lol

Sakurai is a memer, not a troll. Also it's Nintendo's decision, not Sakurai's anyway.

I keep seeing people bring up the possibility of there being only 5 stages, but seriously just go to the stage section of the official website and scroll down to the dlc. There's quite clearly 6 question marks for unannounced stages (it looks different on mobile compared desktop but it's the same number)

That was because of what's obviously a mistranslation issue that people were talking about before. It doesn't matter what anything says anyway; they advertised 6 more challenger packs, *each* with their own fighter, stage, and "some music". That would be an immediate lawsuit of false advertising if each pack didn't have all 3 of those things (bonus fighters not in the FP obviously not included).

 

[QQS]

I keep seeing people bring up the possibility of there being only 5 stages, but seriously just go to the stage section of the official website and scroll down to the dlc. There's quite clearly 6 question marks for unannounced stages (it looks different on mobile compared desktop but it's the same number)

Yes, one for each Challenger Pack, from Joker (#71) to #81.

 

[Enigma735]

Sakurai is a memer, not a troll. Also it's Nintendo's decision, not Sakurai's anyway.

Yeah I know I was joking lol if we do get an ARMS rep, I expect it to be a four-in-one character like Hero, consisting of Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara and Min Min