Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Polarthief]

In any case, we've got slightly less than 2 months left to go assuming the June direct occurs sometime before or after the 11th

I'd assume it would be around the week of E3, give or take up to a week. It's basically 8 weeks tops at this point, but will more likely be ~7w.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My gosh. Too biggers still exist. The more you know.

Yes, Sakurai actually explained why the "too big" thing existed. Because it was based upon reality. His size is absolutely part of his characterization.

But the core issues were his model was impossible to scale down proportionally without various hitbox or other animation issues. Only the Super Metroid one from Melee was slightly workable at best. And the Other M model might've been even better than that one(which would not go over well). His model also had a lot of disjointed hitboxes, especially the extra long tail. Reminder he literally had a new model made outright to make Ridley playable as well. The size of the models were more the issue, not just the literal character(though the literal character was noted too).

It's not "too biggers" in the same way as you're thinking of. It's people looking at the full context of why he's hard to balance. Ridley is very unbalanced in Smash even once he got in. He's way better than the various mods, but he's really really bad overall. The only thing kept well was faithful move animations and his characterization. Yes, a few good moves that feel boss-like, but for the most part, he doesn't feel like the powerful figure he should be. He's no Ganondorf, who keeps that in mind(but with a far less canon moveset in comparison).

I'm glad Ridley got in, don't get me wrong. But I saw the issues a long time ago of why he wasn't really easy to do. Coincidentally I saw the actual issues Sakurai had to deal with.

The funny thing is, the "too biggers" aren't actually arguing in good faith. They don't really care about the issues of why shrinking him down isn't easy. It's just "wah, too big" at its core. Very few actually agreed with the characterization point. He is absolutely workable despite the unbalance, when using a reasonable model(not all models work), sure. But "workable" and "balanced" are two different things. Even Smash couldn't balance him that well, and they had a limitation of the current new model to work with. Modders did not. Not all characters are easy to translate well when it comes to being playable. Being faithful to the movesets/personality is way easier than balancing alone. Animations are one thing. Making them all work in synergy with the character takes a lot more than just animating a model, basically. Admittedly it's hard to explain here.

 

[Sigran101]

Yes, Sakurai actually explained why the "too big" thing existed. Because it was based upon reality. His size is absolutely part of his characterization.

But the core issues were his model was impossible to scale down proportionally without various hitbox or other animation issues. Only the Super Metroid one from Melee was slightly workable at best. And the Other M model might've been even better than that one(which would not go over well). His model also had a lot of disjointed hitboxes, especially the extra long tail. Reminder he literally had a new model made outright to make Ridley playable as well. The size of the models were more the issue, not just the literal character(though the literal character was noted too).

It's not "too biggers" in the same way as you're thinking of. It's people looking at the full context of why he's hard to balance. Ridley is very unbalanced in Smash even once he got in. He's way better than the various mods, but he's really really bad overall. The only thing kept well was faithful move animations and his characterization. Yes, a few good moves that feel boss-like, but for the most part, he doesn't feel like the powerful figure he should be. He's no Ganondorf, who keeps that in mind(but with a far less canon moveset in comparison).

I'm glad Ridley got in, don't get me wrong. But I saw the issues a long time ago of why he wasn't really easy to do. Coincidentally I saw the actual issues Sakurai had to deal with.

The funny thing is, the "too biggers" aren't actually arguing in good faith. They don't really care about the issues of why shrinking him down isn't easy. It's just "wah, too big" at its core. Very few actually agreed with the characterization point. He is absolutely workable despite the unbalance, when using a reasonable model(not all models work), sure. But "workable" and "balanced" are two different things. Even Smash couldn't balance him that well, and they had a limitation of the current new model to work with. Modders did not. Not all characters are easy to translate well when it comes to being playable. Being faithful to the movesets/personality is way easier than balancing alone. Animations are one thing. Making them all work in synergy with the character takes a lot more than just animating a model, basically. Admittedly it's hard to explain here.

I mean, speak for yourself. I think Ridley is represented extremely well. And the ganondorf example is laughable. I was actually going to respond that Ridley feels far more like his usual self than Ganondorf does. But if you want to claim that falcondorf is a better representation than Ridley go ahead, because I absolutely refuse to get into another Ridley debate. That ended when he finally got in.

Edit: Ya'll better be prepared for this to happen with Geno too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, speak for yourself. I think Ridley is represented extremely well. And the ganondorf example is laughable. I was actually going to respond that Ridley feels far more like his usual self than Ganondorf does. But if you want to claim that falcondorf is a better representation than Ridley go ahead, because I absolutely refuse to get into another Ridley debate. That ended when he finally got in.

There's nothing to really debate on Ridley. They already proved his other models couldn't be scaled down properly as all the mods were bad or mediocre at best, and that he needed a new model with different proportions. The character is not actually as strong as him being a boss-like character should be. Some buffs would make him a far better representation.

And I claim Falcondorf is good representation because he actually feels like the boss he is. He's extremely powerful, and while his speed was never even "high" to begin with, it was only bad during Brawl at best. He's supposed to be slow to begin with. He's a brutish character(and in fact, only OOT slightly wasn't that. He's highly brutish in WW and TP, and his more brutish style came from Brawl first, though he was no less one in OOT's characterization or his playstyle in Smash). Most of the time he fights physically in canon. He had literally one spell, which barely works with his Smash playstyle. That and by the time he could get DMV(which was not named in any games, mind you, so it would've set a new name if it was in mind), it was used by tons of characters, including non-Ganon-related ones. It wasn't his own move anymore than Wizard's Foot effectively was. More importantly, his updates, even without the non-canon sword from the tech demo, represent his murderous nature well. He's a monstrous individual, and by the time WW rolled around, he's literally beating up Link in general. The idea he only fights with magic is... misplaced. Besides, he officially uses magic either way. Those are magical punches and kicks. He's not a Monk. Dark Magic is his forte. He holds the Triforce of Power. Using his darkness element among other things is... actually pretty accurate in practice. There's barely any moves that are kind of jank for his character; normally I'd say Lightning Punch, but he does use Lightning as an element, and through his hand. It's basically as close to Dead Man's Volley to exist(and could be a good way to use, by holding down A). Wizard's Foot is pretty awful and not even close to his game abilities. He down a clear ground punch extremely similar to Warlock Punch in general, so that represents him fine. Dark Dive should be replaced by a teleport, yes. Flame Choke is literally based upon WW and TP, with flames added to make it "better". Though I forget if he uses flames in TP.

What Ridley needs is buffs. He's honestly too weak and too easy to damage. Something like a bit more super armor, a bit more damage, etc. He doesn't need much to feel like himself.

That's clarification on why Ganondorf is represented rather well, and why Ridley... needs something better. When shrinking down a massive boss, giving them a lot of weaker janky attacks doesn't help make him feel right. That, and Ridley could use a bit more speed here and there. He's not as slow as Smash makes you believe.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

If there is going to be another reveal (or maybe 2) for next E3 alongside Arms character, I think that it should be Sora from Kingdom Hearts (indenpently of his chances because of Disney).

He is a really huge worldwide and a long re-quested character since Smash 4 days (and probably the real winner of 2015 ballot without taking account veterans). Nintendo should give us a reason to spent another $30 in more Smash DLC (that is a lot for a single game) and I think that Sora is the answer. He is popular worldwide and his last game got released last year. Plus, it would tie in with the announcement of some Kingdom Hearts games coming to Switch this year and 2021 like 1.5 + 2.5 + 2.8 HD collections or even maybe KH3.

About the topic of Nintendo’s lineup for the rest of Switch life (2020-2022 min) I think that we will see:

- a lots of new entries from “Touch Generations” games like Nintendogs, Tomadochi Life, Style Saavy, Wario Ware , Rhythm Heaven, Art Academy, Jam with the Band, Big Brain Academy and maybe even the revival of some obscure IPs like Hotel Dusk, Another Code, Endless Ocean or Elite Beat Agents (let me just dream). Games oriented for “expanded audience). We can also expect some new IPs, similar to Ring Fit Adventure

- Some sequels of 2017 games like BOTW, SMO, ARMS and maybe ... Pokken?

- New spin-offs entries from Mario and Pokemon like Paper Mario, Mario Golf, Detective Pikachu 2 and a few more. (Captain Toad 2?)

- possible new entries of series that still haven’t got a new game on Switch: Pikimin 4, Metroid (2D), Bayonetta 3, Star Fox and Donkey Kong 3D (the last two maybe for Switch sucesor)

- Lots of remakes/ports/remasters of old nintendo games; SMW3D, Pikmin 3, Mario 3D Collection, Zelda WW/TP/SS HD, Fire Emblem, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Xenoblade X, Fatal Frame 2/4/5, Pokemon Gen 4 and I can name you more that would be really great to have a remake/reboot/reimagining (whatever word you like to use) like Punch Out (Wii), Sin & Punishment (N64?), Last Story, Pandora’s Tower, Baten Kaitos, etc.

- Some minor IPs (e-shop only)like Pushmo or Dillon. Here I count collaborations with indie developers like Cadence of Hyrule.

- More big third party publishers collaborations like NMH3, Bravely Default 2, SMT5, maybe Monster Hunter NeXt, maybe another Koei-Tecmo game (FEW2 or HW2?).

- More ports from mutiplattaform games that have been released on PS4/XOne.

 

[MisterMike]

I can actually see this going down in my head, with Sakurai having that look on his face back when Byleth was released where he knew EXACTLY what he was doing god I would love that lmao

"Gee Sakurai, why do your parents let you wear two hats at the same time?"

 

[Malo Mart]

Honestly, I'm glad I decided to start replaying SMRPG today! I haven't been doing too well emotionally lately, almost entirely due to this goshdarn quarantining we have to be living through, as you could probably guess. Worse still is that college came back to bite me in the ass in the form of online schooling just 2 weeks after the lockdown began, and now I'm stuck in this weird "worst of both worlds" scenario, where I have to forcefully rot away inside my house while STILL having the "perks" of attending classes that I'm getting increasingly more bored of.

I'm feeling down like an anvil thrown out of a plane high up the sky, chores this, schoolwork that etc., which is why I'm so grateful entertainment exists. I'm really enjoying my time with Animal Crossi- oh i wish. Uh, I'm really enjoying my time with Super Mario RPG, the next best thing! It might not be much, but it has cheered me up a bit. I smiled once I saw Mallow, I smiled once I saw Geno and I smiled once I saw Mario's antics like morphing into Bowser, Peach or Croco just to get his point across to people. And that's not even mentioning other aspects of the game, like all the charming character animations (especially the ones after you win a battle), all those wacky sound effects or the ****ing brilliant soundtrack, thank you Shimomura-san!

I dunno man, in times like these you just gotta appreciate the little things. Speaking of which, glad I have stuck around with you guys, be it here or in the Star Road server, in our collective rooting for the puppet! Just thought I'd say that. Let's stay safe, do what we enjoy, and soon enough this Corona virus situation will blow over AND our wish of Geno in Smash will be granted. Peace!

 

[MisterMike]

Honestly, I'm glad I decided to start replaying SMRPG today! I haven't been doing too well emotionally lately, almost entirely due to this goshdarn quarantining we have to be living through, as you could probably guess. Worse still is that college came back to bite me in the ass in the form of online schooling just 2 weeks after the lockdown began, and now I'm stuck in this weird "worst of both worlds" scenario, where I have to forcefully rot away inside my house while STILL having the "perks" of attending classes that I'm getting increasingly more bored of.

I'm feeling down like an anvil thrown out of a plane high up the sky, chores this, schoolwork that etc., which is why I'm so grateful entertainment exists. I'm really enjoying my time with Animal Crossi- oh i wish. Uh, I'm really enjoying my time with Super Mario RPG, the next best thing! It might not be much, but it has cheered me up a bit. I smiled once I saw Mallow, I smiled once I saw Geno and I smiled once I saw Mario's antics like morphing into Bowser, Peach or Croco just to get his point across to people. And that's not even mentioning other aspects of the game, like all the charming character animations (especially the ones after you win a battle), all those wacky sound effects or the ****ing brilliant soundtrack, thank you Shimomura-san!

I dunno man, in times like these you just gotta appreciate the little things. Speaking of which, glad I have stuck around with you guys, be it here or in the Star Road server, in our collective rooting for the puppet! Just thought I'd say that. Let's stay safe, do what we enjoy, and soon enough this Corona virus situation will blow over AND our wish of Geno in Smash will be granted. Peace! View attachment 269475

And since you haven't mentioned it, I take it CacoMallow is fake now?

 

[Malo Mart]

And since you haven't mentioned it, I take it CacoMallow is fake now?

Oh definitely... not!

I made it my signature for a reason

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

Pardon if I'm retreading old ground but I've been here sporadically at best, (especially cause I don't have much free time due to still having work despite the shutdown) but why are people suggesting a triple reveal at E3? While I get smash being a big deal there, the strained schedule just makes that seem odd to me, even with Joker/Terry non-gameplay trailers.

 

[Nicnac]

Pardon if I'm retreading old ground but I've been here sporadically at best, (especially cause I don't have much free time due to still having work despite the shutdown) but why are people suggesting a triple reveal at E3? While I get smash being a big deal there, the strained schedule just makes that seem odd to me, even with Joker/Terry non-gameplay trailers.

The thought process is we tend to get two at E3, and revealing who the ARMS character is isn't a huge reveal as we already know it's an ARMS character. My thinking is if it happens it's more 2.5 reveals than 3.

 

[Firox]

Imagine believing one random financial report as a sign that "OH NO THE SWITCH IS DOOMED" when it feels like that's what these business publications have been saying for years now. Use your brain for two seconds.

Imagine using your brain/reading comprehension for two seconds to realize that "losing momentum" =/= "OH NO THE SWITCH IS DOOMED"

Nobody is saying that. Even the article says that Switch is doing fine from a sales perspective. The only point was that the market doesn't expect Nintendo to blow anyone's doors off in the near future which seems pretty reasonable since Nintendo apparently thinks AC is supposed to be their trump card for the greater part of this year. Either way, there is a good chance that Nintendo surprises everyone regardless. I sure hope they do.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The thought process is we tend to get two at E3, and revealing who the ARMS character is isn't a huge reveal as we already know it's an ARMS character. My thinking is if it happens it's more 2.5 reveals than 3.

2.5 meaning a tease of FP8? Maybe even in a roundabout way like they did with the ARMS character?

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

2.5 meaning a tease of FP8? Maybe even in a roundabout way like they did with the ARMS character?

I think it's more like 2 full reveals and a "half reveal" for the Arms character since we already know the fighter is from Arms. Just not who it is from Arms.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Pardon if I'm retreading old ground but I've been here sporadically at best, (especially cause I don't have much free time due to still having work despite the shutdown) but why are people suggesting a triple reveal at E3? While I get smash being a big deal there, the strained schedule just makes that seem odd to me, even with Joker/Terry non-gameplay trailers.

I know I'm beating a dead horse at this point but technically 6 of the 8 E3s that Smash has been present at have had at least triple reveals. There's also the fact that Sakurai outright said 6 was taking longer than usual and I feel the original plan was to probably have them out by April. A common misconception is that they work on one character at a time for DLC but based on past comments, there's a decent amount supporting that it's three at any given time and they move onto the next once one is done. Based on comments from my own guys, I give credence to this because they claimed 5, 6, and 7 were being worked on in January and that appears to be totally accurate. Once Byleth was out, work probably started on 8 so at least seeing 8 5 1/2 months later isn't exactly a wildly unrealistic expectation.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

I know I'm beating a dead horse at this point but technically 6 of the 8 E3s that Smash has been present at have had at least triple reveals. There's also the fact that Sakurai outright said 6 was taking longer than usual and I feel the original plan was to probably have them out by April. A common misconception is that they work on one character at a time for DLC but based on past comments, there's a decent amount supporting that it's three at any given time and they move onto the next once one is done. Based on comments from my own guys, I give credence to this because they claimed 5, 6, and 7 were being worked on in January and that appears to be totally accurate. Once Byleth was out, work probably started on 8 so at least seeing 8 5 1/2 months later isn't exactly a wildly unrealistic expectation.

Thinking in that, seems more likely getting 2 E3 Reveal, if their are Geno and Crash i couldn't care less about who are the other 3, BTW you are expecting Crash 7 and Geno 8 or Geno 7 and Crash 8

 

[Polarthief]

Even with Corona causing delays (9-11 definitely getting cucked, 6-7 I doubt were affected too much, and 8 was probably slightly affected), I doubt they're gonna change whatever was originally planned for E3 before the quarantine happened. Might change how much of the character is shown, but if they were planning to do ARMS+7+8, they're going to do that moving forward.

As for who it is, I don't even know anymore. Geno is very likely to be 7 or 8, the other depends on a lot of things but Crash or Wah are looking decently likely.

 

[Vector Victor]

And, of course, there could be a third option where they reveal character 8 at E3 but their release is delayed.

 

[Polarthief]

And, of course, there could be a third option where they reveal character 8 at E3 but their release is delayed.

If 8 is revealed, this is already super likely to happen. Even if 8's actual development wasn't impacted too much, they'll still delay it to have better spacing between the characters since 9-11 and any potential bonuses are very likely to be affected at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually did show off some gameplay of 8 but they didn't get released til late Fall or even Winter, potentially even early 2021.

I wouldn't even mind it since the reveals are generally what's bigger to people (myself included), not the actual releases.

Edit/PS: Oh and before anyone asks, there is also a slight possibility that they may have to push back the December 2021 deadline if the quarantine stays for too long and if this eventually halts development. I'm sure they gave themselves that date for wiggle room, but no one could have foreseen this kind of delay happening (granted if our world wasn't so ****ed and corrupted, we probably would have, but in our modern day, obviously that's just a pipe dream).

 

[Spatulo]

I know I'm beating a dead horse at this point but technically 6 of the 8 E3s that Smash has been present at have had at least triple reveals. There's also the fact that Sakurai outright said 6 was taking longer than usual and I feel the original plan was to probably have them out by April. A common misconception is that they work on one character at a time for DLC but based on past comments, there's a decent amount supporting that it's three at any given time and they move onto the next once one is done. Based on comments from my own guys, I give credence to this because they claimed 5, 6, and 7 were being worked on in January and that appears to be totally accurate. Once Byleth was out, work probably started on 8 so at least seeing 8 5 1/2 months later isn't exactly a wildly unrealistic expectation.

Here’s a thought that occurred to me, do we have proof that COVID is the reason for 6’s delay? I mean it’s perfectly understandable if that’s the case, but at the same time if the character was to come in April would that have been sufficient cause to delay them two months?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just to further illustrate my thoughts, let's look at Smash history:

-Mewtwo released April 2015. Lucas, Roy, and Ryu are datamined shortly afterwards.

-Lucas, Roy, and Ryu released at E3 2015. Three "Mario" placeholders are found in the code shortly afterwards.

-Cloud released in December 2015, Corrin and Bayo announced for February 2016.

-Smash Ultimate released December 2018. Plant, Joker, and Hero datamined shortly after. (Plant and Joker were secretly found as early as November.)

-Joker released in April, Hero and Banjo announced in June 2019, highly suggesting Banjo started work upon Plant's release.

-Banjo's presentation recorded days after Hero's release in August according to Sakurai. Terry's already in a presentable state, supporting that Terry likely started development around Joker's release. Sakurai notes in this video too that Season 2 has already begun some degree of development.

-Byleth's presentation was recorded in November according to Sakurai, showing them in a presentable state about 2 1/2 months before their release. It's already been decided that Season 2 will be 6 packs at this point.

-Sakurai mentions shortly after Byleth's presentation in January that the contents of the 6 packs have been finalized. Backtrack to 2018 when Sakurai made similar comments in November. Plant, Joker, and Hero were in development at this time, giving credence to 6, 7, and 8 being in development after Byleth's release.

 

[Deleted member]

Definitely some good findings very interesting thoughts.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Here’s a thought that occurred to me, do we have proof that COVID is the reason for 6’s delay? I mean it’s perfectly understandable if that’s the case, but at the same time if the character was to come in April would that have been sufficient cause to delay them two months?

Based on Sakurai's comments, I don't think it had anything to do with Covid-19. I think it was a balancing issue which honestly makes sense. When I think of an ARMS character, I think of some with the consistent range of Donkey Kong, the strength of Little Mac, and grab range that's probably going to be longer than ZSS... That's a tad worrisome. The Belmont boys have ridiculous range but are balanced by a slow ground and air movement and one of the weakest recoveries in the game. Characters like Ganondorf and DK have good range and power but are balanced by being big bodies and having exploitable recoveries. An ARMS character doesn't have these issues. There's literally no reason for an ARMs character to have a bad recovery or poor grab range. Imagine Ganondorf with a tether grab and you can understand why this goes into "OH ****" balancing complications really quickly.

I feel like Sakurai is probably taking this approach too because he learned his lesson from Smash 4 DLC. Mewtwo was hot garbage on release and Cloud and Bayo were obnoxiously good (especially Bayo). Mewtwo was hardcore buffed probably more than any character in Smash history in a single game. Bayo got a sprawling list of nerfs and STILL wound up being the best character in the game by a considerable margin. Smash 4 had this issue a lot. Rosa, ZSS, Diddy, etc were busted out of the gate and repeatedly had to be slapped with the nerf stick. Sakurai is probably having flashbacks from Smash 4 and didn't want the ARMS character to be someone they would have to repeatedly tweak to make sure they weren't a broken mess on release.

 

[Spatulo]

Based on Sakurai's comments, I don't think it had anything to do with Covid-19. I think it was a balancing issue which honestly makes sense. When I think of an ARMS character, I think of some with the consistent range of Donkey Kong, the strength of Little Mac, and grab range that's probably going to be longer than ZSS... That's a tad worrisome. The Belmont boys have ridiculous range but are balanced by a slow ground and air movement and one of the weakest recoveries in the game. Characters like Ganondorf and DK have good range and power but are balanced by being big bodies and having exploitable recoveries. An ARMS character doesn't have these issues. There's literally no reason for an ARMs character to have a bad recovery or poor grab range. Imagine Ganondorf with a tether grab and you can understand why this goes into "OH ****" balancing complications really quickly.

I feel like Sakurai is probably taking this approach too because he learned his lesson from Smash 4 DLC. Mewtwo was hot garbage on release and Cloud and Bayo were obnoxiously good (especially Bayo). Mewtwo was hardcore buffed probably more than any character in Smash history in a single game. Bayo got a sprawling list of nerfs and STILL wound up being the best character in the game by a considerable margin. Smash 4 had this issue a lot. Rosa, ZSS, Diddy, etc were busted out of the gate and repeatedly had to be slapped with the nerf stick. Sakurai is probably having flashbacks from Smash 4 and didn't want the ARMS character to be someone they would have to repeatedly tweak to make sure they weren't a broken mess on release.

Balance is definitely a consideration, one other thing that occurred to me was if the character is actually 4 characters a la Hero like some have speculated, that could also add more to the workload.

 

[domriver]

Based on Sakurai's comments, I don't think it had anything to do with Covid-19. I think it was a balancing issue which honestly makes sense. When I think of an ARMS character, I think of some with the consistent range of Donkey Kong, the strength of Little Mac, and grab range that's probably going to be longer than ZSS... That's a tad worrisome. The Belmont boys have ridiculous range but are balanced by a slow ground and air movement and one of the weakest recoveries in the game. Characters like Ganondorf and DK have good range and power but are balanced by being big bodies and having exploitable recoveries. An ARMS character doesn't have these issues. There's literally no reason for an ARMs character to have a bad recovery or poor grab range. Imagine Ganondorf with a tether grab and you can understand why this goes into "OH ****" balancing complications really quickly.

I feel like Sakurai is probably taking this approach too because he learned his lesson from Smash 4 DLC. Mewtwo was hot garbage on release and Cloud and Bayo were obnoxiously good (especially Bayo). Mewtwo was hardcore buffed probably more than any character in Smash history in a single game. Bayo got a sprawling list of nerfs and STILL wound up being the best character in the game by a considerable margin. Smash 4 had this issue a lot. Rosa, ZSS, Diddy, etc were busted out of the gate and repeatedly had to be slapped with the nerf stick. Sakurai is probably having flashbacks from Smash 4 and didn't want the ARMS character to be someone they would have to repeatedly tweak to make sure they weren't a broken mess on release.

This and probably coupled with from past posts that Nintendo probably directed Sakurai to move ARMS first in line to be presented than what was already set for presentation. Either way it doesn't it matter we will eventually get to it. I do agree with the 3 at a time being worked on. Makes perfect sense. Like always of course we just need to wait and see. ughhh.

 

[MattX20]

If we do get a triple reveal on the June Direct, that's great, but if not, two's not bad either

 

[Fatmanonice]

Because I like to be thorough, this is the timeline I'm proposing based on my earlier post:

-November 2018. Final Smash Direct. DLC announced. Plant and Joker are secretly datamined from pirated copies.

-December 2018. Ultimate is released. Joker is announced. Hero is found in the game's code.

-February 2019. Plant's released. Joker's character model is seen for the first time. Banjo likely began development around this time.

-April 2019. Joker is released. Terry likely began development around this time.

-June 2019. Hero and Banjo revealed. Season 2 greenlit. Hero's presentation supposedly recorded around this time.

-Late July/Early August 2019. Hero released and Banjo presentation recorded. Terry is in a presentable state. Season 2 has already started development according to Sakurai. Byleth likely began development around this time.

-September 2019. Banjo released. 6 likely officially begun at this point.

-November 2019. Terry released and Byleth presentation recorded. It's already decided that Season 2 will be 6 packs at this point. 7 likely started around this time.

-January 2020. Byleth announced and released. Sakurai announces all content for all 6 packs has been determined. 8 likely started around this time.

-March 2020. 6 technically announced but announcement and release delayed until June. Sakurai expresses concerns that Covid-19 could cause delays.(Based on this, 6 likely wasn't delayed because of it.)

-April 2020. Sakurai announces work on DLC will continue remotely, implying work was still being done in person up to this point.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Oh definitely... not!

I made it my signature for a reason

View attachment 269477

CACOMALLOW IS REAL 2401

 

[MattX20]

Because I like to be thorough, this is the timeline I'm proposing based on my earlier post:

-November 2018. Final Smash Direct. DLC announced. Plant and Joker are secretly datamined from pirated copies.

-December 2018. Ultimate is released. Joker is announced. Hero is found in the game's code.

-February 2019. Plant's released. Joker's character model is seen for the first time. Banjo likely began development around this time.

-April 2019. Joker is released. Terry likely began development around this time.

-June 2019. Hero and Banjo revealed. Season 2 greenlit. Hero's presentation supposedly recorded around this time.

-Late July/Early August 2019. Hero released and Banjo presentation recorded. Terry is in a presentable state. Season 2 has already started development according to Sakurai. Byleth likely began development around this time.

-September 2019. Banjo released. 6 likely officially begun at this point.

-November 2019. Terry released and Byleth presentation recorded. It's already decided that Season 2 will be 6 packs at this point. 7 likely started around this time.

-January 2020. Byleth announced and released. Sakurai announces all content for all 6 packs has been determined. 8 likely started around this time.

-March 2020. 6 technically announced but announcement and release delayed until June. Sakurai expresses concerns that Covid-19 could cause delays.(Based on this, 6 likely wasn't delayed because of it.)

-April 2020. Sakurai announces work on DLC will continue remotely, implying work was still being done in person up to this point.

That seems like a plausible timeline of events

 

[Loliko YnT]

CACOMALLOW IS REAL 2401

Everything is coming together

 

[MattX20]

Everything is coming together

I forget, was the text on that statue ever actually translated or revealed?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

What Ridley needs is buffs. He's honestly too weak and too easy to damage. Something like a bit more super armor, a bit more damage, etc. He doesn't need much to feel like himself.

I strongly disagree on that because Ridley already vomits damage and knockback, making him even stronger than that isn't going to cure Ridley of his problems, it'll just treat the symptoms. What he really needs are buffs to make his disadvantage state much more bearable, as well as making his recovery less punishable.

 

[Fatmanonice]

As I pointed out in my last post, the decision to work remotely wasn't made until earlier this month, suggesting the first half of Season 2 won't likely have significant delays but the second half might. On this note, the cinematic trailers for most of the characters are likely done. Sakurai has stated in the past that most were handled by the same company with only a handful of exceptions. Nintendo is likely sitting on them until it's time to show them so, on that note, announcements will probably continue on schedule but actual releases will be delayed, presumably for the second half. As both Mewtwo and Joker showed, Nintendo has absolutely no issue with announcing characters 4-5 months out with no gameplay footage so I imagine the worst case scenario is that they'll announce someone and then we don't actually get them for like half a year.

 

[Malo Mart]

CACOMALLOW IS REAL 2401

Everything is coming together
View attachment 269515

Nice findings, but I'm afraid I already beat you both to the punch by about 2 months, wink wink nudge nudge

Here's a fun fact. Remember that sign in Super Mario 64 with the blurry text?

View attachment 263595


For years it's perplexed scholars and pre-teens watching SM64 videos from the late 2000s alike, and they've had several hunches on what it could possibly mean, but now with 2020 technology, we can finally decipher its meaning. Here's how it looks like in 4k quality:

Spoiler

View attachment 263598

Yep! They've been teasing us about Geno and Cacomallow even before Super Smash Bros was a thing. Amazing, ain't it?

 

[MattX20]

As I pointed out in my last post, the decision to work remotely wasn't made until earlier this month, suggesting the first half of Season 2 won't likely have significant delays but the second half might. On this note, the cinematic trailers for most of the characters are likely done. Sakurai has stated in the past that most were handled by the same company with only a handful of exceptions. Nintendo is likely sitting on them until it's time to show them so, on that note, announcements will probably continue on schedule but actual releases will be delayed, presumably for the second half. As both Mewtwo and Joker showed, Nintendo has absolutely no issue with announcing characters 4-5 months out with no gameplay footage so I imagine the worst case scenario is that they'll announce someone and then we don't actually get them for like half a year.

Yeah, the second half was probably the most affected production wise. I can't imagine 6, 7, or even 8 were affected all that much

 

[Fatmanonice]

Mulling over things, I've come to realize that 6 probably was meant to be an April release. Why do I say this?

-Nintendo is pretty strict about presentation timing and plans them out months in advance. Rumblings of the Spring Direct being prepped starting in mid December were probably true and, based on people I've talked to on the topic, Directs typically take a month to a month and a half to prep. This is further supported by Sakurai saying Banjo's presentation was recorded in early August but not shown until early September with the Direct. This suggests that a March Direct was already scheduled even before they totally knew what they were going to show.

-The Season 2 card was released the week of the Spring Direct. Again, retail takes planning, often months in advance. It isn't a decision that the lever is pulled the week before. It takes collaboration and planning with retailers, suggesting probably January. This same argument could be applied to the recent Amiibo rereleases, which leaked in February.

-If 6 was originally planned for release in June, Nintendo probably would have just shown off 6's trailer in the March Direct. Back in 2015, Lucas was shown in April but released in June. If 6 was always planned for June, they could have just done this again.

Based on this, 6 probably was not meant to be an E3 reveal. Sakurai and team probably realized in February or even January that they were not going to make their own deadline thanks to difficulties and made the call when the Direct was still being pieced together.

 

[Firox]

I strongly disagree on that because Ridley already vomits damage and knockback, making him even stronger than that isn't going to cure Ridley of his problems, it'll just treat the symptoms. What he really needs are buffs to make his disadvantage state much more bearable, as well as making his recovery less punishable.

Exactly. I personally think some good buffs would be to reduce end lag on Up B, Side B and Dair as well as reduce startup on Nair. Maybe extend his Up B's hitbox so that people can trade with it as easily. Also, I think he needs to be heavier to match the other power characters (and physics). I mean, c'mon, SAMUS is heavier than him?! But at the same time, his jump should be adjusted so that the increase in weight doesn't hurt his air game.

 

[MattX20]

Mulling over things, I've come to realize that 6 probably was meant to be an April release. Why do I say this?

-Nintendo is pretty strict about presentation timing and plans them out months in advance. Rumblings of the Spring Direct being prepped starting in mid December were probably true and, based on people I've talked to on the topic, Directs typically take a month to a month and a half to prep. This is further supported by Sakurai saying Banjo's presentation was recorded in early August but not shown until early September with the Direct. This suggests that a March Direct was already scheduled even before they totally knew what they were going to show.

-The Season 2 card was released the week of the Spring Direct. Again, retail takes planning, often months in advance. It isn't a decision that the lever is pulled the week before. It takes collaboration and planning with retailers, suggesting probably January. This same argument could be applied to the recent Amiibo rereleases, which leaked in February.

-If 6 was originally planned for release in June, Nintendo probably would have just shown off 6's trailer in the March Direct. Back in 2015, Lucas was shown in April but released in June. If 6 was always planned for June, they could have just done this again.

Based on this, 6 probably was not meant to be an E3 reveal. Sakurai and team probably realized in February or even January that they were not going to make their own deadline thanks to difficulties and made the call when the Direct was still being pieced together.

It could explain the odd decision to only announce the series the character was from and not the character

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Exactly. I personally think some good buffs would be to reduce end lag on Up B, Side B and Dair as well as reduce startup on Nair. Maybe extend his Up B's hitbox so that people can trade with it as easily. Also, I think he needs to be heavier to match the other power characters (and physics). I mean, c'mon, SAMUS is heavier than him?! But at the same time, his jump should be adjusted so that the increase in weight doesn't hurt his air game.

What I'd do is give Wing Blitz either faster startup or invincibility / super armor while rushes upward so he's less vulnerable. Ideally it'd be like Fire Fox or Fire Bird where Ridley can travel anywhere in a 360-degree radius, though that'd be more of a quality of life change and wouldn't help that much. Space Pirate Rush could probably stand to be less vulnerable too, either decresing startup or endlag (or both). Down aerial is useless as is and you're better off using any other move, at least a landing hitbox would make it much safer. Some other things I'd do would be to give his forward aerial and landing hitbox, maybe give some invulnerability on down aerial on his feet to make it harder to challenge, and buff his throws so they're more effective at KOing.

 

[SmashChu]

Polarthief I have considered the idea of Waluigi at E3 because he's probably the only first party character that would make headlines as much as Ridley. Talking with a friend about it, he joked "he died at E3, his redemption will be at E3" which makes go into sacreligious territory of Waluigi died at E3 and then rose on the third!

I'm thinking Waluigi will either be #7 or 8 for this reason. One thing I think folks forget is who Nintendo thinks is popular (this is something I've argued before in this thread). K Rool, Simon and Ridley were all from the ballot, so fans could directly tell Nintendo who they wanted. Banjo likely got in due to Phil Spencer. He was often asked about Banjo and had responded to comments on it, which of course were published on various game sites. If one of the major console manufacturers is talking about it, I'm sure Nintendo is listening. This is likely why Banjo caught Nintendo's attention.

Waluigi is likely in the same boat. The response to him not being in was published in the Washington Post. Reggie was even asked about Waluigi not being in Smash.

“I haven’t talked to him,” Fils-Aime said of Sakurai and his Tweets, “but I believe he was working hard to communicate two things: One, that the characters have been decided on. Second, that he is well in development on this, so please be patient. My interpretation is that there will be no fan polls, [and that] no independent poll trying to push Waluigi, as an example, will not influence the decisions that have already been made.”

Hey, he brought Waluigi up, not me. I had to ask: “Do we know? Do you know if Waluigi is or isn’t in the roster?”

“We’re not here to discuss that at this point in time,” Fils-Aime said.
https://kotaku.com/nintendo-s-reggie-fils-aime-on-hopes-for-an-n64-classic-1830465672

Vice, as well, asked about Waluig not being in Smash though their discussion was longer. So Nintendo is well aware people want Waluigi in Smash. Seeing as this DLC was made after the release of the game, they can look at stuff that was passed over in the main game, and that includes Waluigi. Nintendo likely sees him as being very popular so he'd be a big reveal. Seeing as Vol 2 may very well be more Nintendo focused, Waluigi makes sense as the big reveal.

I will say I think a problem Geno fans do have is they rely on being popular on message boards hoping Nintendo will take note. Nintendo doesn't have any way to gauge who is really popular through forums and what not. They probably don't even know about the fan polls done. I think the reason Waluigi could very well get in is because Nintendo sees that popularity but they may not see it for other characters, Geno included. I think folks haven't had the level of outreach needed to get a niche (albeit cool) character in Smash.